Hello,.
I'm using a nexus 4 with encryption (completely stock android 5.1), but with a short pin for easy accessibility. Now as far as i know, if a thief gets hold of my phone, they can easily bruteforce the pin and gain access to everything stored on my phone, rendering the encryption useless.
What is a good way to actually secure an android phone with encryption, without completely giving up on usability (like having to type a 10+ character password every time you want to check your messages)?
Also, is there a way to make the decryption password you have to enter when starting up the phone different from the pin used for screen unlock?
Hey!
It's my first post here so it this isn't the best place for such a question then by all means mods pls move the thread to where it should be
Basically, where I'm currently living (Brazil), things tend to get pretty violent and phone thefts are very common. Now the thing is, if it's an iPhone usually the thieves just throw it away, as once it's locked it becomes useless. When it comes to Android though, some of them will dig deep trying to access your info like pictures, passwords, bank information, among other things. They even manage to break IMEI locks and stuff. I got my S5 stolen recently and the information theft part put me through hell. Yet, I'd much rather have an S8+ then any other iPhone currently, so my question is how could I completely theft proof it?
I'm not really worried about them restoring the phone and reselling it, more about them accessing the data inside of it. I know the SD card can be protected through cryptography (although would accept "stronger" tips if there are any). When it comes to apps, aside from the basics of trusting what you install and stuff, are apps like Cerberus, Knox 2.0, or other Samsung features I'm not aware of, any good against someone who knows what they're doing? Is there a way to disable airplane mode or power offs? Also what is probably my strongest concern: is there a way to completely not allow system changes through a computer, like the one that removes the lock screen?
Being a programmer and computer science undergrad student (although not specializing in security nor mobile), I'd have no problem if the solutions would involve some coding or tweaking, just as long as they prove to be effective.
So, would you guys have any tips on how to completely secure the data given those concerns?
The sd card can be Encrypted and if you have a password lock (fingerprint irsi etc...) then it will ask for that before it will unlock the phone.
Also they have a remote wipe. You can log i to google and remote wipe your phone when you found out its been stolen.
You can set the phone to require a password to decrypt it when it's restarted. You can encrypt the SD card too. You can set it to lock instantly when the screen turns off. And you can use only a password to unlock it (no biometrics), which is the most secure option (if you use a suitable password). Finally, you can set the phone so that you can wipe it remotely, or to wipe itself after a number of consecutive incorrect password attempts. But even without the last two measures, your data will be unreadable without your password.
Unfortunately, though, if thieves are violent enough, they may be able to coerce you into divulging the password. If they succeed, they have full access to your phone.
Gary02468 said:
You can set the phone to require a password to decrypt it when it's restarted. You can encrypt the SD card too. You can set it to lock instantly when the screen turns off. And you can use only a password to unlock it (no biometrics), which is the most secure option (if you use a suitable password). Finally, you can set the phone so that you can wipe it remotely, or to wipe itself after a number of consecutive incorrect password attempts. But even without the last two measures, your data will be unreadable without your password.
Unfortunately, though, if thieves are violent enough, they may be able to coerce you into divulging the password. If they succeed, they have full access to your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about stuff like that Dr. Fone Toolkit that supposedly removes the lock screen? From the quick look I took it seems it somehow patches the Android on the phone to remove the lock screen. Is there some sort of system encryption/lock to avoid that kind of stuff when connected to a computer?
xile6 said:
The sd card can be Encrypted and if you have a password lock (fingerprint irsi etc...) then it will ask for that before it will unlock the phone.
Also they have a remote wipe. You can log i to google and remote wipe your phone when you found out its been stolen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually they just put it on airplane mode though, so google remote wipe is useless... Which is why I was looking for more of an offline fix through cryptography and such
I use smart Lockscreen protector to prevent somebody putting my phone to airline mode or shutting it down ( It won't help phones with removable battery)
If you have the phone encrypted and have the require pin on boot set. And you have the Qualcomm version that is locked down you have nothing to worry about.
Even the iPhone 7 has been jail broken or rooted the S8 with the Qualcomm chip is one of only a few phones that have not been hacked. It's actually WAY more secure than an iPhone.
lvrma said:
What about stuff like that Dr. Fone Toolkit that supposedly removes the lock screen? From the quick look I took it seems it somehow patches the Android on the phone to remove the lock screen. Is there some sort of system encryption/lock to avoid that kind of stuff when connected to a computer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone is completely encrypted, so if you set it to require a password to restart and to turn the screen back on, then its contents are unreadable without the password regardless of how you connect to it.
lvrma said:
...
Usually they just put it on airplane mode though, so google remote wipe is useless... Which is why I was looking for more of an offline fix through cryptography and such
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a lock screen set you can lock the status of your phone(wifi state, airplane mode, power settings). This way you have to unlock it to toggle these modes.
I just ran across this, some good advice.
http://thedroidguy.com/2017/04/setu...security-features-tutorials-1071462#Tutorial1
lvrma said:
What about stuff like that Dr. Fone Toolkit that supposedly removes the lock screen? From the quick look I took it seems it somehow patches the Android on the phone to remove the lock screen. Is there some sort of system encryption/lock to avoid that kind of stuff when connected to a computer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like you, I'm interested with this topic, but unlike you, I would like the theief to have a useless phone if they cant unlock it. So that they would think twice the next time they want to steal an android. Else they would just continue stealing since you just put the phone on download mode, connect to a computer and root it.
About your question. Isnt disabling usb debugging mode on developer option block that risk? Also in my note 4, enabling knox will prevent your device from being rooted, at least thats what i understand from the description. i wonder where it is in s8.
speaking of knox, s8 has "Secure folder". its like a secured environment within a phone. Everything you put in here will be protected by knox. Apps, accounts, files, etc. And it would ask for another security to access it(pattern/pin/password).
lvrma said:
Usually they just put it on airplane mode though, so google remote wipe is useless... Which is why I was looking for more of an offline fix through cryptography and such
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you mentioned cerberus app, it has a function than can wipe device memory and wipe sd card via SMS command. so if you are fast enough, while the thief is running away and before he pulls out your sim card from the phone, you can send an sms command to wipe data.
Since you mentioned you are a programmer, this may be interesting to you, locking download mode and recovery mode on android to prevent thief from flashing hack to your phone. but this require a bit of patience if android isnt your forte.
https://ge0n0sis.github.io/posts/20...-mode-using-an-undocumented-feature-of-aboot/
BratPAQ said:
Like you, I'm interested with this topic, but unlike you, I would like the theief to have a useless phone if they cant unlock it. So that they would think twice the next time they want to steal an android. Else they would just continue stealing since you just put the phone on download mode, connect to a computer and root it.
About your question. Isnt disabling usb debugging mode on developer option block that risk? Also in my note 4, enabling knox will prevent your device from being rooted, at least thats what i understand from the description. i wonder where it is in s8.
speaking of knox, s8 has "Secure folder". its like a secured environment within a phone. Everything you put in here will be protected by knox. Apps, accounts, files, etc. And it would ask for another security to access it(pattern/pin/password).
you mentioned cerberus app, it has a function than can wipe device memory and wipe sd card via SMS command. so if you are fast enough, while the thief is running away and before he pulls out your sim card from the phone, you can send an sms command to wipe data.
Since you mentioned you are a programmer, this may be interesting to you, locking download mode and recovery mode on android to prevent thief from flashing hack to your phone. but this require a bit of patience if android isnt your forte.
https://ge0n0sis.github.io/posts/20...-mode-using-an-undocumented-feature-of-aboot/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't put your phone anywhere besides your pocket. Get a cover that makes it look like as different phone with a cracked screen.
the easiest way to encrypt sd and phone, enable adoptable storage.
cantenna said:
the easiest way to encrypt sd and phone, enable adoptable storage.
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Click to collapse
How is that easier than just selecting the Settings options to encrypt the SD card and to require a password to unlock upon restart?
---------- Post added at 06:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 AM ----------
lvrma said:
Usually they just put it on airplane mode though, so google remote wipe is useless[.] Which is why I was looking for more of an offline fix through cryptography and such
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and even without airplane mode, they can physically enclose the phone to block all electronic signals. Encrypting the phone (and SD card), using a secure password as the sole unlock method, affords the strongest protection against all attacks (except coercing the password from you).
Gary02468 said:
How is that easier than just selecting the Settings options to encrypt the SD card and to require a password to unlock upon restart?
---------- Post added at 06:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 AM ----------
Yes, and even without airplane mode, they can physically enclose the phone to block all electronic signals. Encrypting the phone (and SD card), using a secure password as the sole unlock method, affords the strongest protection against all attacks (except coercing the password from you).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yea, may bad, i often assume everyone on xda is here because there interested in unlocked boot loaders, root and custom kernels. My recomindation applies only to people who have unlocked pandor's box only.
the method of encyption you suggested the isnt availble for users like me but we can enable adoptable storage which does encrypt the system by other means and it is compatible with root, etc
dynospectrum said:
Don't put your phone anywhere besides your pocket. Get a cover that makes it look like as different phone with a cracked screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where can you get/ how can you make such a cover?
Also sometimes when I'm in bad Areas, I go to developer options and turn on some of the screen update stuff, so it flashes the screen purple a lot and make it look messed up.
So my Dad uses a Galaxy Note 10 Plus. He works at a high level judiciary position i cant mention, so information stored on his phone are govt. classified stuffs. Security is very vital.
He is almost 70 , so memorising pins and password is not his thing.
Therefore he uses Face Unlock/Face ID feature and Fingerprint scanner for unlocking phone and securing his apps.
But this morning, for God knows what reason, his phone can ONLY by unlocked via GESTURE PATTERN.
The thing is, Dad never uses gesture pattern, he must have set it when he first recieved the phone from the govt. He doesnt recall the gesture anymore.
All the officials have been trying their luck with the gesture unlock to no avail.
He needs to recover his phone data fast.
Is there a way for him to unlock his phone using face ID, fingerprint, or even email authorisation or something like that??
As far as I know, after you've tried many times, you will get a messages "Forgot pattern" on the lower left corner of your lock screen. Touch Forgot pattern and enter Google Account info to clear the lock.
Just hope he can still remember the password for the google account!
Just keep on trying until the phone starts asking you for the account (mail) and it's password.
Use the account data (password) to unlock the phone.
It is possible that his employer has the phone under MDM (Mobile Device Management). That is very common on mobile devices that access secure information from an employer. It allows them to control settings on the phone. If so, they may be the ones that changed the settings and they also may be able to unlock the phone.
I can't see any option in settings to encrypt the phone, so is that not possible with Realme 5i/ColorOS? I would never buy a phone without that option but I assumed it was standard on all Android phones.
doveman said:
I can't see any option in settings to encrypt the phone, so is that not possible with Realme 5i/ColorOS? I would never buy a phone without that option but I assumed it was standard on all Android phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Full-device encryption was deprecated with Android 10 because it blocks Accessibility Services, the dialler & other useful things till the device is unlocked, File Based Encryption was introduced with Android 7 & is now used instead, this allows these functions to be encrypted with the device's keys (rather than the user's password) so remaining functional before the user unlocks the device.
https://source.android.com/security/encryption/
I found this older thread about the POCO X3 NFC: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/phone-says-its-encrypted-but-is-it-really.4167645/
I do not know if the info there is also valid for the X3 Pro ... or if it even was correct in the first place. (Cause just 1 other user mentioned this and no one else talked about it.)
In the 2nd post there is tha guy mentioning that MIUI is not changing the decryption keys when changing the password. Is this a problem?
I have bootloader unlocked and Magisk + LSposed installed. Using the latest stock MIUI. From what I have read online ... unlocking hte bootloader just allows to tamper more with the device - and allows an attacker to bypass the hardware security stuff to run brute force without using the phone (to bypass rate limits and run brute force very fast) - shouldn'd that still be safe with a long password?
Well Android allows at max 16 chars and I am using 16 chars letter, numbers, special chars now + biometrics for screen unlock. After the boot it seems it forces you to put in the password. (Biometrics not working.) TWRP decryption is working - and only works with the password I put. (Not with "default_password".) Even when adb is enabled (I usually leave USB debugging disabled) it seems not to work unless I also change the charging options to allow file transfer (not only charging battery) - which always seems to reset to recharging battery only after a reboot. (And not allow for changes unless passwort is put in once at least.)
I am talking mainly about attacks where you are able to power off your phone and someone else gets physical access to it. (Like police or NSA lol. After I got it back I would always completely wipe it to make sure they have not installed some keyloggers.) Unless the bootloader and internal keystore somehow (I do not have much knowledge about this) just checks your passwort but is still using "default_password" in the background (and TWRP also works using this) should not a strong password be safe?
I think the key generation with "default_password" itself still would have some random compoment (every time you reset the sytsem and it gets newly encrypted)? And it only matters if that "key encryption key" gets re-encrypted when changing the password. (And not only encrypted/hashed with "default_password".) As mentioned here by Elcomsoft: https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2018/05/demystifying-android-physical-acquisition/
"It still takes effort to decrypt the smartphone even if the data is encrypted with “default_password”. Much depends on the encryption implementation of a particular vendor. As an example, some vendors will not re-encrypt the KEK (Key Encryption Key) when the user changes their passcode; this in turn allows decrypting the data regardless of the current passcode by simply using “default_password”. The same situation occurs if, at the time of the initial setup, the vendor opts to start encrypting the phone before the user sets the passcode. According to Oxygen, this is exactly what happens on Motorola smartphones, which can be extracted and decrypted regardless of the lock screen password – but only if Secure Startup is not enabled."
(This info still seems to be for the old FDE but I think it should be similar fo file based encryption which is used in the POCO X3 Pro?)
If the TWRP only works with the correct password (otherwise showing encrypted stuff for the files that are supposed to be encrypted in th FBE - not everything like in the FDE but still enough I think) ... is it safe to say that this key encryption key is getting re-encrypted?