Are Android security patches necessary if you're using your phone cautiously?

Are Android security patches necessary if you're using your phone cautiously? - General Questions and Answers

I know it sounds like a base question since we're talking about security but I wonder in what instances are security patches really helping.
For example, suppose I only use the device with my data plan and my wifi at home (no public networks). Also suppose that I don't download 3rd party apps except those created by established companies like Microsoft (SwiftKey or Outlook). And suppose I don't visit many websites on my device (and especially no pr0n). In this instance, are security patches really necessary? Unlike most people, I don't do everything on my phone (no browsing the net, banking). I only use it for navigation, WhatsApp, and for calls.
I'm asking this question because I'm thinking about getting an Android phone. I'm currently an iPhone user and I want to break out of the Apple ecosystem. The problem is that some companies like HTC and LG seem to be slow to provide security patches or simply ignore them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDxUjSfp17E&t=6m35s
I'm interested in buying the LG V35 but the internet is full of comments about LG's horrendous support. I am mainly interested in keeping my emails and personal information safe. The only thing I value in the iPhone is the long-term support Apple provides but I'm willing to switch to Android if this isn't a concern if I use my phone exactly as I described above.
Thanks

Mity85 said:
I know it sounds like a base question since we're talking about security but I wonder in what instances are security patches really helping.
...
I'm interested in buying the LG V35 but the internet is full of comments about LG's horrendous support. I am mainly interested in keeping my emails and personal information safe. The only thing I value in the iPhone is the long-term support Apple provides but I'm willing to switch to Android if this isn't a concern if I use my phone exactly as I described above.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, welcome to Android ?
To answer your questions, security patches are indeed necessary, because if one day you lose your phone, potential flaws that would be patched with security update would be grand opened to hacker that want your personal data (like photos, videos, emails, contacts,...).
Even though it's very rare, that's more secure to have an updated phone.
Now, if you want long term services (updates from Google with the latest features and security patches) you should definitely go for a Google Pixel. Plus those are powerful and have the best camera on the phone market right now (machine learning helps a lot).
If your price range is around 400 $, then go for the Pixel 3a, if you're around 800 $ then go for a Pixel 3.
If you can wait a bit, wait until the Pixel 4 release, I don't know if it'll be a good phone (probably) but what I know is the more recent your phone is, the longer it'll be updated.
But if you are below that, check out the Android One series, that's not Pixel devices, but they get as well the long term support.
Hope it helps

I'd like to expand on this question a bit.
I have a friend who is experiencing "severe security concerns" at the moment. I'm actually kind of worried about this particular friend. This friend seems to primarily have concerns over "being tracked", so I'm trying to find the best approach to at least putting these concerns in the proper frame so that knowledge and education of the device and what it does, and how to control it would be more attainable to said friend.
I know that the security updates are important, but how do you advise someone who isn't rich, and is looking for a new phone, but is willing to dabble with rooting, even to the extent of removing / not installing Gapps? This friend seems willing to learn, so I'd like to think that taking the big picture of "best security practices" into account is an option (ie. don't open suspicious email attachments, learn how to identify phishing scams, only install apps you trust, etc...).
In my experience, apart from kernel and driver level flaws that leave gaping wide-open back doors, security mostly comes down to "being wise with how the device is used". Is that a fair statement?

Yes, security is a combination and balance of user knowledge & usage, oem hardware security, software security, country laws, etc.

Thanks @galaxys
Is there anything about rooting that makes a typical Android device less secure?
Or more to the point, does the ability to omit Gapps provide any natural security enhancement?
I'm asking from the point of view of a "moderately experienced" individual who knows how to spot suspicious attachments/files and phishing scams, and knows how to do some bare-minimum vetting of where apps are installed from. For the sake of argument, let's say this user has no Gapps, and gets their apps from FDroid or ApkPure, or ApkMirror.

Related

Android OS exploit discovered

I came across this article while surfing the internet. I wanted to share this with you guys, and see what your feelings were on this.
"Mobile Device Security and Android File Disclosure
Back in November, Thomas Cannon brought to light an issue within the Android operating system. Specifically, he found that it was possible to obtain the contents of files on an Android device by simply persuading its owner to visit a web site under attacker control. The issue only garners a 3.5 CVSS score, but yet it’s still fairly serious.
Thomas reported this issue responsibly to Google and they took it seriously. However, since then they have come back with a ridiculous remediation plan. Granted, its probably not entirely Google’s fault, but the overall situation looks very bleak for Android.
The problem is that Google stated that a fix will be available as part of an update to the upcoming Android 2.3. While that, in itself, may not be totally ridiculous, the reality of the situation is that Google is only one party involved in Android. There are two other groups, namely OEMs and Carriers, that must also do their part in getting the fix to users. Although Android devices are becoming increasingly functional, the security posture remains abysmal.
The security posture for desktop applications has improved vastly with all of the sand-boxing, automatic updates, and various other exploit mitigation technologies. Meanwhile, Android includes almost none of existing security protections. In fact, mobile users are being left out in the cold, unable to get a patch for a trivially exploitable cross-zone issue. For that matter, they can’t even control whether their device’s browser automatically downloads files or not.
This situation is not news, rather it is a sad fact. It is totally unfair for end users to be left out to fend for themselves. After all, they are paying a small fortune for these devices and the service to be able to use them. Hopefully the vendors involved will wake up before a network worm outbreak occurs.
Originally, Thomas disclosed the details of his bug on his blog. Later, he removed some details to help protect users. I believe that responsible disclosure is a two-way street that requires responsibility on both sides. Since Google, OEMs, and carriers all continue to act irresponsibly, it is necessary bring more attention to this issue and the situation as a whole.
I spent a little time and managed to recreate the issue with nothing more than HTML and JavaScript. As of today, I have released a Metasploit module to take advantage of the flaw. It is available in the latest copy of our Framework product, or you can view the source via the link to our Redmine project tracker above.
Before I go deeper into the consequence of this bug, I want to point out that Thomas outlined several workarounds for this vulnerability in his blog.
Now, take a deep breath give some thanks to the fact that, under Android, most every process runs under a separate, confined, unix-style user account. This design feature partially mitigates this issue, lowering confidentiality impact to “Partial” and bringing the CVSS score from 5 to 3.5. That said, an attacker can still gain access to some pretty interesting stuff.
For starters, an attacker can steal any world-readable file. In my tests it was possible to get potentially sensitive information from the within the “proc” file system. This type of information could include kernel versions, addresses, or configuration that can be used enhance further attacks.
Also, you can snarf any files that are used by the browser itself. This includes bookmarks, history, and likely more. This kind of information could potentially be embarrassing or possibly even give an attacker access to any saved passwords or session cookies you might have stored.
Perhaps the easiest win though, is that you can grab anything off of the SD card. You might ask, “Anything?! What about the user separation?” Well, because the SD card has been formatted with the “vfat” (aka “fat32”) file system, there is no concept of ownership. All files are owned by the same user id since the file system itself cannot encapsulate who created which file. As Thomas said, files in the SD card that have predictable names are ripe for the picking. This includes pictures and movies. These may in fact be some of the most private data on your device.
In conclusion, I hope that the Android security debacle will get resolved as soon as possible. If Google, OEMs, and carriers can’t work it out, perhaps another party will step in to maintain the operating system. I believe this could be very similar to the way various Linux distributions operate today. If the situation is not resolved, I fear the Android device pool could become a seething cesspool of malicious code..."
Here is the address
http://blog.metasploit.com/2011/01/mobile-device-security-and-android-file.html
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Shocking. Thanks for the info.

Nice find. You are right that oems and manufactures need to stay on top to mantain security. Hopefully meaningful post like this will make users aware of the possible dangers of the internet, data, and phone usage
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Ouch. Wish Android updates were like iOS..

Android is open, one of the main assumptions is that there is no single company, which controls it. I could create my own phone with Android, sell it to people and give them no support at all - Google can't do anything about it.
There is only one solution to this problem: people have to choose their phones wisely. People look at phone specs, at CPU, RAM, camera, but they ignore future support and openess. Recently Motorola has stated they will lock bootloaders in their future phones. People will go for these phones anyway and then they will complain they can't do anything with some horrible bugs, they will complain about Android and Google, but they should complain about Motorola and themselves. While Nexus S owners will have same bugs fixed by both Google and community.
Choose your phones wisely.

SD with vfat...good catch. Horrible bug while many users trying to move their apps to SD. And maybe 80-90% of the apps in the market require modify SD card perm? Horrible. Verizon SGS is screwed since that phone have little internal and lots of external SD.

I'm so glad you guys came across this thread, and it didn't get lost in all the other threads. I hope some of the devs see it. Can a fix be implemented at the Rom or kernal level?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

[Q] Android Phone Security - buying and privacy

New to the Android platform. It's surprising how 'connected' they are. Apologies if this is the wrong forum. I'll be happy to post elsewhere or see this post moved.
I have an Epic 4G Touch.
I've been pondering the security and privacy aspect of these Android phones, and it seems to me that precautions are prudent, but I’m not exactly sure what precautions are necessary and how to put them into practice. I’m really not even sure what questions to ask. I’m very computer literate, so I guess that gives me a head start of sorts.
I guess complete privacy, information safety and anonymity is impossible, but I hope there is some sort of method that will allow as much as is available.
The questions below are examples of some of the questions I have.
Is there some sort of primer that covers these and other details that should be known?
Questions that occur:
1. What is the most secure way to purchase apps? How do the ‘savvy’ users handle this? And should they be purchased online or via the phone? What method of payment are most comfortable with?
2. Is it a bad idea to access other online accounts from the phone, or is it better to establish some sort of new account with a ‘credit limit’ or a low limit credit card?
3. I’m using a few of my ‘anonymous’ Gmail accounts on the phone. I’m not sure how much privacy this provides, given that the phone is in my name?
4. Are there practices that should be avoided (i.e., emailing my 'non-mobile’ accounts)?
5. After getting up to speed, I’ll likely be rooting. Any extra security precautions required? I guess an app like LBE Privacy Guard is warranted?
I suppose a good primer will cover much more. Thanks for any help .
Sam

I can't really help with the purchasing of apps questions, as I don't invest much money into apps, but I would definitely recommend LBE. It helps get your app permissions under control.

Sam Sung;19111758]New to the Android platform. It's surprising how 'connected' they are. Apologies if this is the wrong forum. I'll be happy to post elsewhere or see this post moved.
I have an Epic 4G Touch.
I've been pondering the security and privacy aspect of these Android phones, and it seems to me that precautions are prudent, but I’m not exactly sure what precautions are necessary and how to put them into practice. I’m really not even sure what questions to ask. I’m very computer literate, so I guess that gives me a head start of sorts.
I guess complete privacy, information safety and anonymity is impossible, but I hope there is some sort of method that will allow as much as is available.
The questions below are examples of some of the questions I have.
Is there some sort of primer that covers these and other details that should be known?
Questions that occur:
1. What is the most secure way to purchase apps? How do the ‘savvy’ users handle this? And should they be purchased online or via the phone? What method of payment are most comfortable with?
I do it via phone and bill to my phone bill.
2. Is it a bad idea to access other online accounts from the phone, or is it better to establish some sort of new account with a ‘credit limit’ or a low limit credit card?
I check my info with the banks application.
3. I’m using a few of my ‘anonymous’ Gmail accounts on the phone. I’m not sure how much privacy this provides, given that the phone is in my name?
Probably not much.
4. Are there practices that should be avoided (i.e., emailing my 'non-mobile’ accounts)?
I can't think of any shouldn't make a difference.
5. After getting up to speed, I’ll likely be rooting. Any extra security precautions required? I guess an app like LBE Privacy Guard is warranted?
Only security precaution I suggest is read perms. Lol
I suppose a good primer will cover much more. Thanks for any help .
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

First you need to decide how private you want to be.
Hiding your activity from Sprint for example would be fairly difficult. The ET4G is setup to route all internet traffic through sprint's proxies, you can change this (search the ET4g forums to find out how) but I'm certain that sprint could still monitor your activity if they wanted to unless you setup some kind of VPN which I don't even know if we can do on our phones.
Next up would be google, they make money by gathering information about you... so yeah if you want to hide from them your a tad limited since this is android. I guess you could just not associate a gmail account with the phone, but then whats the point of running android?
Personally I'm not insanely worried about the above two entities. What concerns me is the tons of random apps people load onto phones that have every permission granted you could think of. This is where LBE Privacy Guard comes into play and should be used regardless of rooting. Safest place to get apps is the official market, downloading cracked apps opens you up to who knows what.
Anyway thats my spiel
Sam Sung said:
New to the Android platform. It's surprising how 'connected' they are. Apologies if this is the wrong forum. I'll be happy to post elsewhere or see this post moved.
I have an Epic 4G Touch.
I've been pondering the security and privacy aspect of these Android phones, and it seems to me that precautions are prudent, but I’m not exactly sure what precautions are necessary and how to put them into practice. I’m really not even sure what questions to ask. I’m very computer literate, so I guess that gives me a head start of sorts.
I guess complete privacy, information safety and anonymity is impossible, but I hope there is some sort of method that will allow as much as is available.
The questions below are examples of some of the questions I have.
Is there some sort of primer that covers these and other details that should be known?
Questions that occur:
1. What is the most secure way to purchase apps? How do the ‘savvy’ users handle this? And should they be purchased online or via the phone? What method of payment are most comfortable with?
2. Is it a bad idea to access other online accounts from the phone, or is it better to establish some sort of new account with a ‘credit limit’ or a low limit credit card?
3. I’m using a few of my ‘anonymous’ Gmail accounts on the phone. I’m not sure how much privacy this provides, given that the phone is in my name?
4. Are there practices that should be avoided (i.e., emailing my 'non-mobile’ accounts)?
5. After getting up to speed, I’ll likely be rooting. Any extra security precautions required? I guess an app like LBE Privacy Guard is warranted?
I suppose a good primer will cover much more. Thanks for any help .
Sam
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

.
Thread moved to Q&A due to it being a question. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.

Thanks to all for your comments.
R1ptide said:
First you need to decide how private you want to be.
Hiding your activity from Sprint for example would be fairly difficult. The ET4G is setup to route all internet traffic through sprint's proxies, you can change this (search the ET4g forums to find out how) but I'm certain that sprint could still monitor your activity if they wanted to unless you setup some kind of VPN which I don't even know if we can do on our phones.
Next up would be google, they make money by gathering information about you... so yeah if you want to hide from them your a tad limited since this is android. I guess you could just not associate a gmail account with the phone, but then whats the point of running android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Although I've always been very 'privacy centered', I've come to accept the reality that there is a compromise required here. It never occurred to me that I should worry about Sprint. The 'Big Picture' where Google is concerned is somewhat disturbing, but I suppose the (unacceptable) alternative is to throw away my android and limit all of my online activity.
At this point, I can safely say that I won't be tossing my Android unless I become a fugitive of justice .
However, I'm only willing to give up what I have to. The problem is, at my current level of experience, I'm not quite sure what that is. And that is the question I should have included in my OP:
If I want to protect my privacy, data, acounts, and all else to the greatest degree possible without giving up my Android (and still retaining the lion's share of functionality and features), how would I best accomplish that?
I do understand that common sense plays a large role here, and I'm not looking to overide that, but whatever practices, software, some kind of anonymous payment methods or whatever else that can provide the greatest degree of protection, privacy and anonymity without shelving all functionality is what I'm after.
Personally I'm not insanely worried about the above two entities. What concerns me is the tons of random apps people load onto phones that have every permission granted you could think of. This is where LBE Privacy Guard comes into play and should be used regardless of rooting. Safest place to get apps is the official market, downloading cracked apps opens you up to who knows what.
Anyway thats my spiel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your well thought out response. As far as cracked apps, I apply the same caution here as I do to my computers. No questionable software or sites. No 'off the beaten path' practices unless thoroughly researched.
Where LBE is concerned...the Market description (and a thread I read in these forums) states that Root is required. Is that not correct?
Again, thanks for your (and any other) responses.

Sam Sung said:
Where LBE is concerned...the Market description (and a thread I read in these forums) states that Root is required. Is that not correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct, and if you're getting at what I think you are, then yes, some people have a problem with this. It's hard accepting that LBE protects you from bad apps, while LBE itself has full access to every inch of your phone. That being said, I don't believe anyone has come up with any solid evidence that the app itself is harmful; people, however, can still be skeptics.
Without it, when you come across an app with a questionable permission, your only option is to not use the app. Every other permission blocker I've come across does so forcefully, which leaves the apps useless (force closes, etc). LBE, on the other hand, maintains the usability of the apps while still preventing them those permissions. In my opinion, it's a wonderfully helpful app. Your decision to use it may be different though, depending on your paranoia.

upichie said:
That is correct, and if you're getting at what I think you are...
In my opinion, it's a wonderfully helpful app. Your decision to use it may be different though, depending on your paranoia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, actually, my question was based on the reality that I would be running it now if my phone was rooted (and the supposition that it will be pointless to install to an unrooted phone). I will be rooting this phone (Epic 4G Touch) eventually. The only reasons I haven't are:
1) This is my first Android phone and therefore I have no experience with rooting (still reading different rooting threads). I tend to research before I leap into something new.
2) I just don't have the time right now to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. And this phone is so incredible, I'd rather not be without it for any extended length of time (I use it as an 'appliance' rather than a phone...I have other phones for such menial tasks)
But I'm definitely convinced of the virtues of rooting, largely due to the app functionality. I also want to be prepared for the caveats. I'm not sure what they may be right now, but there must be some security risks.
Thanks!

Apps can be purchased via PC web browser at AppStoreHQ.
Gapps are optional. After rooting you could remove them or just those you don't need. Market is a tough one to live without, IMO.
If you don't plan to use your device for email then create a new email account specifically for the phone. Don't give it out. This will allow you to use the Market, etc.
Install Shark for Root + SharkReader to look at network traffic, or do it via router. Use hosts file to block google analytics etc. Routinely wipe the cache.
If you root install busybox and a terminal emulator and you can control the apps and system yourself. Everything LBE does you can do manually. Compile/install a kernel with tun.ko module and connect to a VPN. Or change DNS if you want. It's Linux, always keep that in mind.
My BIGGEST problem with Android is the lack of timely updates which include security patches. For this reason these devices are a security nightmare. Turn off WiFi, data, gps, Bluetooth when not using them. Disable install from unknown sources and debugging when not in us. Follow blogs that report on security issues and understand where you're vulnerable.
I'm security conscious as well and don't purchase or do banking with my phone. Sure it's convenient but it can wait until I get home. If someone is sniffing my traffic or should my phone be stolen I'm not scurrying to cancel credit cards and change passwords. This gives me the piece of mind I need to enjoy my smartphone. It also limits it, but I'm ok with that.

Turducken said:
Apps can be purchased via PC web browser at AppStoreHQ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a more anonymous payment method than standard CC?
Gapps are optional. After rooting you could remove them or just those you don't need. Market is a tough one to live without, IMO.
If you don't plan to use your device for email then create a new email account specifically for the phone. Don't give it out. This will allow you to use the Market, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, I have 3 gmail accts on the phone. One for market, one for clients, one for logins.
Install Shark for Root + SharkReader to look at network traffic, or do it via router. Use hosts file to block google analytics etc. Routinely wipe the cache.
If you root install busybox and a terminal emulator and you can control the apps and system yourself. Everything LBE does you can do manually. Compile/install a kernel with tun.ko module and connect to a VPN. Or change DNS if you want. It's Linux, always keep that in mind.
My BIGGEST problem with Android is the lack of timely updates which include security patches. For this reason these devices are a security nightmare. Turn off WiFi, data, gps, Bluetooth when not using them. Disable install from unknown sources and debugging when not in us. Follow blogs that report on security issues and understand where you're vulnerable.
I'm security conscious as well and don't purchase or do banking with my phone. Sure it's convenient but it can wait until I get home. If someone is sniffing my traffic or should my phone be stolen I'm not scurrying to cancel credit cards and change passwords. This gives me the piece of mind I need to enjoy my smartphone. It also limits it, but I'm ok with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, Turducken. This is really good information. All the more reason I need to get up to speed w/rooting so that I can batten down the hatches. I'm not quite sure how to use some of this info yet, but time and educating myself will remedy that.
One app I just ran across looks interesting (which I can't use until I root) is Logging Test.
It was originally written for HTC phones, but the paid version will support more devices.
Please consider this thread ongoing. Any information and/or links pertinent to security, data and privacy protection is enthusiastically welcomed!

Security does matter!

I wrote this On Xperia Neo General forum but it belongs to here much more.
Original thread at: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1447095
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Introduction
I have not seen much talk about security in XDA.
First, here's just one informative link talking about using and developing apps and security risks involved.
http://www.technologyreview.com/comp...1/?mod=related
Any bug in software could potentially be used as a security loophole to gain access to private information, spy on you, get your credit card info(should you do such things on phone).
What is kind of unsettling is that everyone seems fine with modding, tweaking, developing and using those ROMs made in XDA without worrying if there could be that kind of bug in your made or used ROM.
You don't need a malicious app only to have risks. Most people use Windows so they should know that it is OP systems bugs and vulnerabilities that allow for unwanted access to your files, data, etc.
Android itself is having very non-foolproof security system. All apps on unrooted phone are in sandbox. That's no security measure at all. It doesn't limit app from stealing your private info at all, it only cant delete the whole ROM. That's just idiotic security system, for it is the only thing beside encrypting shut off phone on 3.0 and 4.0. So that means Android on it's own has no security measures while it's working. Even Windows has... some... but not too much... so you could pay for antivirus and antispyware software ofc.
It has always been the goal of big corporations to make money from insecurity, be they software developers, arms dealers and you name it. They all benefit from insecurities existing. Same is with Google and it's Android. But the good news is that we the users can modify Android. We could all say "Au revoir security bugs and loopholes!" if we would care about developing ROMs designed to make Android more secure... alas that's not happening yet!
Overview of Linux/Android security issues.
It's a short condensed description just to get you interested in the topic. There's lots of material on net, you only need to search, read, watch videos.
Linux becomes more vulnerable with more applications with different permissions installed. Same is true for Android.
Say your Phone Exporer has root access, that means it has root access to whole Android. To remove unnecessary risks, this app's root access should be limited to only most necessary functions it needs to operate.
Currently for Android there is no such solution. For Linux there is Apparmor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppArmor
Total root access is obvious vulnerability, but it is at least known one. Let's look at possibility of apps having hidden permissions and what that could mean to you.
Blade Buddy from Market.
On market it does not list permission to "Unique Device ID"(IMEI for GSM and MEID; ESN for CDMA) for free nor for paid version.
That means the author of BB has left the code from free version in paid one. This permission is used by ads to track you. It's not necessary code for ads, but it helps the dev know who clicked on the add and generated him some money. To see your money generating zombie empire stretch across the whole globe.... quite a thrill, isn't it?
So it's a latent code, with no benefit to user and an exploit only calling to be abused.
Unique Device ID allows you to be tracked on net and also where you are physically. GPS is just one way to find you, police for example have scanners to locate your devices physical location by the IMEI code. You can count on the "bad guys" having this technology as well, for it's quite a tool for burglars and other criminals.
The risks of your home being marked as the next dungeon to be looted by some raiders, I mean criminals(or perhaps WoW players sleepwalking and sleepraiding?) or getting your ID and bank details stolen by trojan/hacker is random. Yet the threat would not exist without apps having so flagrant hidden permissions.
Next app with ludicrous permissions
Brightest Flashlight
It does list many permissions, among them "Hardware controls - take pictures and videos ". No, it does not need a permission to take photos through cameras to operate the flashlight. But it's fun nonetheless for the dev to see his trusty peasants, or maybe he just likes to observe people like some watch fish in aquarium or hamsters in cage( "Look at that dork!", "You're one ugly m...f...er","ummm a couple kissing in dark with ma flashlight, what are they searching?", "what's that you eat, mr Korean, brains?" "hey show me that document again.")
You don't even need to run the app yourself. It can be triggered by hacker on background and take a snapshot of you.
On top of this little needless permission it has following hidden permissions:
1. Unique IMSI, read about here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI
2. MCC+MNC (CDMA)
3. Unique Devide ID
4. Cell Tower Name.
That's a lot of needless permissions for flashlight, these are there just to track you the app user and have nothing to do with your comfortable use of the app.
These are just 2 apps with totally needless permissions for their intended functioning. If you don't want your Windows and Linux have such security holes then why do you want your Android have them?! You don't want, that's the point and these apps would not be so popular if people would really know and care about their phone being secure.
It can be stated for sure that above exemplified permissions not listed on market are more useful for pranksters, criminals or someone plainly looking-down-on-all-the-dumb-sheep and not at all for any legitimate, user or customer friendly purposes.
There are very few tools to check for security and privacy problems in apps. That gives a sense that majority of devs do not want Android to be secure and private, because Android is another revenue generating platform through Google ads business of course. Were people more educated about the matter then Google ads business would shrink down as well. A private and secure Android can't be tracked or annoyed with ads. No ads, no profit. No security therefore means profit. Unfortunately this lack of security can be exploited by anyone with criminal or malignant intentions so very easily.

In my honest opinion. If someone keeps files like ccinfo they have to worry about being jacked then they deserve it. Should it happen. U shouldn't keep things on your phoney don't want the rest if the world to have
Sent from my Cyanocrack using Xparent Blue Tapatalk

You don't need to keep credit card info on phone, your using the credit card via Market or logging in to bank on phones browser is enough to intercept your credit card info. Your browser may show you xxxxxxxxxxxx+"last four digits only" but that doesn't mean the data to and from your device doesn't contain exact credit card number. It's encrypted, but that is merely a minor inconvenience for a hacker.

That is why being rooted is not advised to everyone. Mainly if they don't know what they are doing. Also customs roms are not for everyone. People flash them cause they think its cool and don't understand what they are doing. That is their problem. People should pay attention to the permissions that am app asks for. Common sense is the best protection. Main reason I don't do anything that deals with a bank on my phone.

Raoa said:
I have not seen much talk about security in XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's talk. It's just not on important yet, because the android device is not being marketed like an OS is with a personal computer.
However, the more we do on our phones, the more we'll realize it needs protection like firewalls. We catch a few like CIQ or the Wimax exploit, but it's going to get worse as we advance in our integration. We do need to start now before exploits get worse and stay ahead of the curve.
Until that time, 4G exploits and root kit programs will run freely on our devices that houses a lot of our personal information.
Plus, for some stupid reason, there are a lot of people who think Linux is immuned to viruses and security holes due to it's code transparency. Android is being mainstreamed. It will soon be a continuous target like other existing popular software programs and operating systems.

And that's why iOS is far superior even without widgets or live wallpapers.

Something to think about.thanks for posting.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

alex2792 said:
And that's why iOS is far superior even without widgets or live wallpapers.
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Click to collapse
IOS and Mac are just as vulnerable, maybe even more so because of there popularity and the misconception that IOS is secure and does not need AntiVirus protection. Just last week i removed a nasty virus on a brand new Macbook Pro so that is not the way to think. You need to act as if there are security issues and just be really careful at what link you click and what email you open.

mattfox27 said:
IOS and Mac are just as vulnerable, maybe even more so because of there popularity and the misconception that IOS is secure and does not need AntiVirus protection. Just last week i removed a nasty virus on a brand new Macbook Pro so that is not the way to think. You need to act as if there are security issues and just be really careful at what link you click and what email you open.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll give you OS X,but I've never heard of an iPhone virus while there are loads of malware on Android market.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

I am not an expert on iOS nor do I have any wish to even know or use it, because Apple buys from suppliers that emply child labor and sweatshops.
When Linux started spreading around people also thought it has no viruses.
Same story repeats with every software.
For each different OS it takes merely time before people start to notice that their OS has viruses/trojans/spyware too. That doesn't mean their OS is not targeted. You should expect all sorts of thieves to use any and all opportunities.
Secondly OS does not matter so much as the matter that your device is connected to wifi, data, bluetooth, et or not. IP addresses, MAC, IMEI, etc they all stay the same on every platform. No matter which OS, they all connect to wireless networks, cell network, data, bluetooth, etc which all have set standards.
So someone wanting to track, spy, get your private info simply has to intercept the data your device sends to any network. If you don't use strong encryption to send info via network then it is easy to "wiretap" you.
Why is there so much spam, viruses, spyware in internet today? It's because the software managing internet is not made to be so secure. If it were secure then it would also be more private and safer for people to chat over net.
So not only OS's need to be more secure, but the very internet itself needs to be reformed.
This relates to SOPA and PIPA. Had those two bills been passed the next step would have been logically to make changes to all networks so you'd be more easily trackable, hackable, "wiretappable". It's simply logical, cause SOPA, PIPA were so defunctly worded as if asking/preparing for a third bill to regulate the networks.
So we must make sure that internet will be reformed for the private users and not for greedy corporations. We would not need to buy anti-spyware, anti-virus software if the internet were truly engineered for the welfare of humanity.
You could use any OS, bugged or not and not be afraid of loosing your property or privacy if the internet would stop such acts before they could harm you, the individual who is supposed to truly and freely benefit from the services; either for free or for honest price, but now you are robbed and think it is good to pay the thieves.

Raoa said:
Android itself is having very non-foolproof security system. All apps on unrooted phone are in sandbox. That's no security measure at all. It doesn't limit app from stealing your private info at all, it only cant delete the whole ROM.
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Click to collapse
Please elaborate. The sandbox does prevent one app from reading the data of another, such as the CC info from the Market.
Also, are you sure Market sends the entire CC number? There's no reason for it to send it, the transaction is performed on Google's servers.

alex2792 said:
I'll give you OS X,but I've never heard of an iPhone virus while there are loads of malware on Android market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you talking about viruses or malware? Please don't conflate the two.
Malware is easy to take care of - check the apps you're downloading for what permissions they want. It's as simple as that.

alex2792 said:
I'll give you OS X,but I've never heard of an iPhone virus while there are loads of malware on Android market.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Just before xmas an iphone developer admitted to deliberately uploading malware in his ios app to show malware can easily affect iphone.
http://m.intomobile.com/2011/11/08/security-expert-sneaks-malware-into-iphone-app-store/
That was for normal iphones. For jailbroken ones there are more malware apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

Raoa, your absolutely right.
I've had the exact same thought recently
Its like the overall view of the Android landscape is ridden from real security apps, for the simple purpose of have the platform as open as possible. And while this is good for developers and users of this and other serious forums, its also open for the "dark" communities as well.
I often ask myself, if the ROM devs onboard have these thoughts themselves, as in, what is my source of this modded apk, is is straight from the Market or from another dubious, (do I dare say chinese forum, just an example)
And how clean is my code really?
And is all mods just legit just cuz they are from here?
I love that we have so many ppl having a desire to mess around with the OS, but I miss, as you say, the talk about having a go on security as well.
I dont know, but I do think that awareness, as you initial post direct us to, should be raised, as a natural step for any serious dev and users in general on XDA, to be more aware, of the code.
Im on my first year as an Android user, and ofcourse did have to gain root on my splendid Sensation. Why?, cuz I needed the security tools requiring root.
Ask again, why? Cuz I came from Winblows 7, and know what a jungle software is, and that is is indeed exploitable, like hell, you might say.
And Im gladd I did gain s-off and root, cuz its really really needed fo youre just a little concerned about your privacy in, mails, sms, location, usage pattern, netbanking, dropobox deposits of your ****, some might even be work related and therefore hold more than just your own privacy.
And then there is what you mentioned, our devices unique ID's, the intent "app install referrer" to "plug" you into admob/google analyzer and so on.
I love one guy here, Treve, who made the HTC tool for scanning for ****, Logging Test Tool, and in version 10, he made it aware of admob/mobclix/analytics, and my god it find a lot...
So Treve, please, if you read this, just go on, as every version you make is getting finer and finer.
We could learn from this guy, and others here that got more code-insight.
What we CAN do as a community at the very least, is to share our knowledge and tips for securing our phones.
HOST filtering, code scanning of apks and so on. using AV's and firewalls and so on.
Right from the start I noticed that Android is not a clean OS, nor is its app market, and I noticed this cuz I have another splendid little Linux system at hand, Smoothwall Express with url filtering and proxy enabled
and My god is Android and its aps LEAKING!
Have a look in your urlfilters on a standalone firewall the step after your wireless android phone, and watch how much **** is going on.
Well, I can tell you for a start that I have added atleast 100 new domains to my custom urlfilter, besides the casual downloadable HOST filters around the net, like the ones found in AdblockPlus and so on. But after android, heh, you need more than just advertising filtering, that much I can say.
Just as an example, like those you mentioned, I have one too, that I was made aware of by Avast on my phone tonight, that ChompSMS was being flagged as malware/trojan.
I thought, **** man, why this crap, Im quite fund of Chomp, really.
So I thought, no, imma let more that Avast on my phone have a go.
So I File Expert dump the full apk, and uploaded it for a scan on virustotal, just for the sake of it. And whatta'ya know, ClamAV, GData, Kaspersky, NOD32, and Sophos flagged it as that same Plankton.G variant as my on-phone Avast.
Great, I thought (sarkasm intended)
I thought a bit further and picked up APK Multi-Tool, had a decompile and a content-scan for just "http" in is readable code.
12 different domains is mentioned so far, and I didnt even poke in all of its xml's, just the smali's
I know android is by a far stretch advertising born, and ofcuz the app devs have a right to earn their money, no doubt about that, and I gladly pay for the good ****, like most ppl here believeably do, but.. 12 different .com's mentioned in its code is a no go for me.
I have earlier used Privacy Blocker, and Privacy Inspector from XEUDOXUS in the market, to make permission scanning, beside using LBE/HOST/Avast, and I like those two aps, the Inspector one is free but only can scan.
The paid Blocker can "repair" as a feature, but its not maintained enuff, so it often fails to make installable apks, so not really worth it for me anymore, but as a free too, it can tell you more about those permissions you mentioned.
But enuff said from me for now, lets just collect and share our tips and tricks, ALSO for security, not just developing ROM and mod's and hacks, as thou they are fine, if not to say, so cool and great, but, we need to be secure too.
Please do not polute the discussion with IOS vs Android and what not, cuz thats not the purpose of it, even thou it definitly concerns (g)A(r)pple products too.
Sincerely, Omnius

alex2792 said:
I'll give you OS X,but I've never heard of an iPhone virus while there are loads of malware on Android market.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Iphones can get viruses they come through SMS's and other sources not as bad as android apple keeps there market much more under control, but everything is vulnerable i work in a security team for a big corp and believe me nothing is safe.
Check these articles out i just found them on google.
I remember a while ago maybe a year or so there was a huge security hole in IOS5 and Mac waited a long time to tell the public and release a patch. The one major problem with Apple is when there are security threats they really try to keep it hush...Iphone's OS is tight but not totally secure. Its not viruses either its moslty just malware that charges you tons of money in texting i saw once an iphone that turned into a bot and at midnight it would dial a 900 number and just sit there all night at like $20 bucks a minunte then disconnect when it felt the phone move.
http://www.mactrast.com/2010/07/iphone-virus-discovered-be-vigilant-and-seek-advice/
http://techfragments.com/news/982/Software/Apple_iPhone_Virus_Spreads_By_SMS_Messages.html

I'm going to fanboy MIUI for a second.
When you install an app you are presented with a screen (separate from the market) that allows you to toggle all the permissions an app ask for between Allowed/Ask/Disabled.
More roms should adopt this.
NB: I haven't checked CM9 so it might be a CM9 feature that MIUI has polished or it might be native to MIUI.

weedy2887 said:
I'm going to fanboy MIUI for a second.
When you install an app you are presented with a screen (separate from the market) that allows you to toggle all the permissions an app ask for between Allowed/Ask/Disabled.
More roms should adopt this.
NB: I haven't checked CM9 so it might be a CM9 feature that MIUI has polished or it might be native to MIUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't be so fast to praise MIUI.

weedy2887 said:
I'm going to fanboy MIUI for a second.
When you install an app you are presented with a screen (separate from the market) that allows you to toggle all the permissions an app ask for between Allowed/Ask/Disabled.
More roms should adopt this.
NB: I haven't checked CM9 so it might be a CM9 feature that MIUI has polished or it might be native to MIUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is the "Average Joe" doesn't even look at those or doesn't know what they mean. I see so many viruses/malware/open security holes just because of user error its insane. Almost 90% of security breaches or problems originate from the end users not paying attention or just not knowing or caring. Also another thing i see so much when new clients call me with there servers melting down and all there banking info being stolen is they haven't installed any updates on there servers since they were set up 2-5 years ago. I worked for a large industrial supply company and all there servers running MS Server 2008 no updates had been installed and they were using AVG free on there main SQL server...INSANE LOL
Then theirs the users, "my computer was fine until my friend on facebook wanted my SS# and mothers maiden name and insisted i open his email attachment, now its acting weird what do you think is wrong?"
Brutal

what is the 4g exploit that you are talking about? And is it only with wimax or is lte part of it as well?

Oneiricl said:
Malware is easy to take care of - check the apps you're downloading for what permissions they want. It's as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's absolutely amazing that people are willing to put up with something so ridiculous.
Sent from my SGH-I897

[Q] I have questions about Android security. (Edit: I STILL NEED HELP!)

I don't own a smartphone yet, but I'm thinking about getting an Android phone soon. It will be my first smartphone. I’m also new to XDA-Developers. Please help me, as I have questions about Android security and though I’ve posted this message to several other web sites--android.stackexchange.com, Quora.com, and Reddit--no one has answered all of my questions completely and thoroughly. I’ve only gotten short responses that are a few sentences long and only talk about one or two things. I really need more help than that, and I’m hoping that I can get it here!
I know that this message is long, but please, if anyone can read through it and then try to answer all of my questions, I would REALLY appreciate it!
Here are my questions.
1. Is Android’s stock browser updated directly by Google, or do updates to it have to go through phone manufacturers (Samsung, HTC, etc)?
2. If I buy a phone that runs a manufacturer-customized version of Android, such as the TouchWiz version of the S4 or the Note II, will keeping Android’s stock web browser--as well as any other browser I choose to use--up to date keep me safe from web-based exploits, even if that phone’s manufacturer is slow to deliver updates? (Edit: I want to add that I'm interested in technical details.) By “updates” I mean updates to everything provided by or customized by the phone’s OEM: the customized version of Android, the manufacturer’s pre-installed apps, etc. (Edit: what I'm asking here is whether the OS needs to be kept up to date to protect against web-based exploits, or is that accomplished solely by keeping the web browser up-to-date, whatever web browser it is).
3. I have read that OEMs are often slow to update their devices, and because of that I have limited myself to only looking at Nexus devices and Google Play Edition devices. But I really need to know if I SHOULD limit myself to Nexus and GPE devices for the sake of web security. (Again, I'm interested in technical details.) I don't want to buy a phone from a manufacturer that takes months to release security updates, leaving me vulnerable to web browser exploits and malware in the interim. But if I am wrong about ANY of this, please tell me so, because I would like to be able to consider devices that run manufacturer-customized versions of Android, such as the Touchwiz version of the S4 or the Note II (or maybe the future Note III).
(Edit: the answer to question #3 would depend on the answer to question #2; if the answer to #2 is ‘no, the underlying OS does not need to be kept up-to-date to protect you from web browser exploits’, then I guess the answer to #3 would be that I can consider buying a device that runs a manufacturer-customized version of Android that won’t receive OS updates as quickly as a Nexus does. If, on the other hand, the answer to #2 is ‘yes, to protect yourself from web browser exploits you need to keep both your browser AND your OS up-to-date’, then I guess for maximum web security I’d need to buy either a Nexus or a Google Play Edition device.)
4. I’ve read that in-app advertising can be a security risk. I’m really hoping that someone here will explain this to me. (Edit: again, I'm interested in the technical details, but keep in mind that I'm new when it comes to smartphones.)
I’d like to add a few comments:
1. I will only get my apps from the official app store--Google Play--or maybe Amazon.com’s Appstore for Android.
2. I'm concerned about web security and in-app advertising.
3. I don't plan on rooting my phone. I'm not saying I won't, I'm just saying that I don't plan on it.

1. Only nexus devices are updated directly by google. Even htc one Google edition will be updated by htc, so as the browser since it's a part of the software.
2. Manufacture updates are slower than Google. Most of the good apps available should receive updates and solve security issues.
3. If you want to disable advertising then use adaway, notice that you will need root.

1. The stock browser I believe does get updated when the OS is updated. I've read about people getting OS updates to find the stock browser is then faultering and assume this then gets updated. The update of the OS is usually done by the device manufacturer unless you are using a custom rom. Whomever creates the rom used on the device, is responsible for the internal updates for it, to whatever level they wish to support it. I have read that google don't mainstream care about the stock browser as they are pushing Chrome for the win and a separate team deals with the stock browser.
2. The world and his hedgehog are not safe from hack exploits. The quality of protection out there in any sense is mirrored by the quality of hacker. If you have a crap security level, any old hacker can exploit it. If you have the worlds most renowned secure, then the best hackers will break in at some stage while the wannabe hackers struggle to threaten their way out of a paper bag. However with some people, they need gold bullion and jail style security while others wonder why they need it. People can recommend you do this or do that, and some recs are excellent while others are not quite but almost hilarious but at the end of the day, if a child can hack into high security places, our devices are not so hard to get into. That said... we can run paranoid while there may be no threat at all. If you are concerned, just be careful of what you do with your device. Myself, I use it for every day communication and have not yet used a credit card on it with no real need to.
3. Even the greatest have not updated their OS. The Motorola Xoom promised one from purchase yet people were moaning long after the stock sold out that it never came. Granted it surely must be true that certain companies are quicker to advocate update releases than others. But the higher paying vs the cheap low end thing isn't something to run with either. I have a very cheap quad core tablet and that has just had a firmware update from last week and as far as I can see, it's an almost brand new device, market wise so it seems the update from them was fluid. Again, that said, the updates seem to be more about the OS running well, with the hardware and app capabilities than security although I dare say there are some inevitable security fixes in there too. My quad tablet was sluggish to some extent and a bit crashy but so far, it is fine after the update although I have only done it a few hours ago... everything me and the kids have tried, has either worked better of been flawless. No sign of lag yet anyway.
4. In-app advertising can be dangerous for a few reasons i guess. but the reality again, is I think any file can have dangerous code attached and configured in a way that the OS or security cannot smell it. Of course there is the ability of spam links to scam sites. There is also false flag things that are or maybe are possible too. For example, using x file with y file and requesting a cup of tea from z file can make a security team think your couch is about to disappear and your granny is about land bump on the floor, when indeed an app just wanted to execute a command using an ancient method of pressing Q. This is something I learned in windows based operating systems where using certain dll files with certain other files can trigger an alarm, as innocent as the intentions were. I built a website not so long ago and called some iFrames in that had no < head > or < body > tags. the pages worked perfectly but some chinese company employed to protect a british isp flagged the site as a security risk and blocked any visitors from viewing it. Thankfully, long gone are the days that visiting a website would fry your motherboard.
On your remaining comments.. seems like wise advice as of course there are scammers out there who will give your granny that bumpy ride off the disappearing couch onto the floor or steal your account and all those types of greed based madness which is a shame because it ruins the experience of say if a friend is trying to build an app and they ask you to give it a go, you are somewhat rightfully not willing to play ball.
FYI I have been around computers for a long time but am by no stretch of the imagination an android expert at all. I hope what I have wrote above is helpful and not by any means, wrong. I have not long posed the question about rooting and security as I do not qualify understanding the realm at all. I dare say it is a huge question, to some extent.
Also, security risk aside as no smartphone tablet or computer escapes that realm, Android for me is the best device, then IPhone, then Windows Phones, then Crapberry. I would never purchase the latter three.

Hi codQuore,
Thank you for your responses to my questions. I need to clarify two of my questions in my original post. (I have edited my original post to include these clarifications.) In question #2, I was attempting to ask whether the OS needs to be kept up to date to protect against web-based exploits, or is that accomplished solely by keeping the web browser up-to-date (whatever web browser it is). In question #3 I asked whether I should only look at Nexus and Google Play Edition devices for the sake of web security, and the answer to that would depend on the answer to question #2; if the answer to #2 is ‘no, the underlying OS does not need to be kept up-to-date to protect you from web browser exploits’, then I guess the answer to #3 would be that I can consider buying a device that runs a manufacturer-customized version of Android that won’t receive OS updates as quickly as a Nexus does. If, on the other hand, the answer to #2 is ‘yes, to protect yourself from web browser exploits you need to keep both your browser AND your OS up-to-date’, then I guess for maximum web security I’d need to buy either a Nexus or a Google Play Edition device.
What are your answers to those two questions?

Truth_Seeker1 said:
What are your answers to those two questions?
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Click to collapse
At a guess I would say, for browsers that are built in to the OS, there will be two ways this can update, via the OS update and independently. The OS update would be a total OS replacement that is not automated and you would need to use a built in checking feature (if available) or manually check yourself periodically. Browsers that you add yourself will be offered updates from notification unless the ability to auto update is allowed then it should happen seamlessly of course letting you know. Google "android chrome update" to see something along the lines of what the update history shows.
Yes, you would want to update but I would recommend having a read first as on any computer device, an update can be flawed or give more problems than it's worth. Although more often than not, an update should be an improvement on performance and stability and of course for security.
If you are working blind, then do an update and assume security improvements are happening and go for it. If not, then you will know what is happening. I have never gone to the lengths of checking an update list before updating for android, but with pcs I do depending on what is updating, check what the update is worth and how people are getting on with the update. I did beta testing for years (hence the knowledge of flawed updates and reluctance to do the updates) so for me it's one of those do you risk it scenarios.
Sadly as I said above, we are never safe from hacks but with some hindsight and genuine attempt to protect, we are safe from the majority. For me it's 90% "what are you worried about?" and 10% "I don't blame you for being paranoid!"
As for the preference of buying google branded devices, the foundation of an android release is surely never set for these devices "out of the box" so to speak. I would assume that the team who look after these devices have the same process of having to streamline the OS thereafter before they can release it for their device update. This is somewhat proven by people wanting to put a custom rom on their Nexus and such. For some reason, people aren't happy with the normal rom and want or need to replace it. naturally, it is easy to think a nexus device for example, is closer to home and should by rights get updated a bit quicker than my Ampe tablet but in some respects I think this could be a bit of swings and roundabouts, again depending on the company and their apportioned team force to output the update. Yes you should be better off with a more directly linked device, to google but in my opinion, the concern is not a great one. You would be better off thinking about your budget, what you can save and ultimately do with the extra cash alongside the knowledge of which devices and companies actually do spend an effort on looking after them.
I'm in no position to afford these devices and if I were, I would rather throw my money in the bin (or spend it on my loved ones) than give it to the highest bidder.
So in the end, yes updates are 99/100 important and should be done. Be careful of what you browse and do all secure data passing before you go out on the internet highway and risk getting robbed. It is probably safer to "remember my password" to avoid future keysniffers than worry about indepth data mining. Of course, anyone can give you a sniffer but data mining is more clinical, I would say.
Finally, i wouldn't worry about these things too much but as concerned as you are, do some research. But do remember that in one hand, the UK government said "the internet isn't safe so we don't use it" yet on the other, the majority of secure usage is 'watched' by paid professionals for banking and such and is alot safer than you may think aswell as protection for credit card fraud and such.

Thanks again codQuore. I understand your point that there is no such thing as 100% bullet-proof security, but I still need to know whether both the OS and the browser need to be kept up-to-date to protect against web-based exploits, or is that accomplished solely by keeping the web browser up-to-date (whatever web browser it is).

You are most welcome, TS. I would say generally yes, to both, to be on the safe side. I'd like to guarantee the OS update will update the browser if it has been updated in the update and that the browser can be updated on it's own. However, I think I am right in saying you have to check for OS updates yourself and the same for certain apps whilst some apps will auto offer the update. You may be able to force this auto update for all apps, but how this is done per different version of android, escapes me. I do remember seeing the option come up after a factory reset or buying a new device and running the first time setup of playstore and such. There's an option for it somewhere. but I don't think the OS itself offers an auto update, it has to be checked for, in my experience. I have just done my tablet and it required installing some software on my pc from the tablet manufacturer and getting that to update the firmware/os. It was a 525MB download and everything was in chinese lol. I managed it with the help of google translate but it also helped that I had previously done the same thing on a t-mobile vivacity for my daughter after her OS died and got stuck at the rotating t-mobile logo on first boot.
It is essential to update but across the board it's not majorly important to check every minute, so to speak. You'll be fine. For the record though, my quad core tablet cost £70 from singapore and I knew I was taking a bit of a gamble but was protected by returns if all went wrong and get my money back. A similar tablet is something like £120. I plan on doing the same thing for my next phone upgrade too... but I don't have a contract phone running, I am on pay as you go and all I use is internet, no calls. Incidentally, I pay £20 for 6months net from t-mobile and the only limit is 1gb per month on video. when that expires, youtube and such stops working, some video sites carry on and everything else, FB mail, tethering, ftp via pc and stuff, all still works. I have even streamed radio from my android phone, flawlessly.

codQuore said:
I'd like to guarantee the OS update will update the browser if it has been updated in the update and that the browser can be updated on it's own.
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Click to collapse
LOL, I had to read that sentence several times in order to process it because you used the word "update" so many times :laugh:
If I remember what you said earlier, I think you said that the stock browser doesn't get updated on its own, but only as part of big OS updates? So it won't receive security patches as vulnerabilities are discovered, and won't be updated until the next version of Android arrives?
If this is true, then I'll use a different browser. But even if I use a different browser, is code from the stock browser used in other things, meaning that it is STILL a security risk if it isn't kept up-to-date?
It also occurred to me that if an OEM is slow to release OS updates for its phones, will it be just as bad at keeping its pre-installed apps up-to-date, and if so, does that pose a security risk.

Haha, looking back I can't believe I wrote that and am wondering if its a valid statement. I'll leave it for someone else to contradict lmao.
The core of the os and apps that run built are updated I guess separately and together. EG, say the browser gets an update to 1.1 the next update of the OS will most likely carry that updated version but if it doesn't it should still offer an update after you hit the playstore setup. naturally, these apps use core parts of the OS and i think some updates for apps will carry their own additional bypass of outdated os core, where applicable. That said, the bypass could be more secure in one sense and less secure in another. I'm guessing this is even possible. One thing I am yet to see, knowing how windows and linux works a little, is android have to update x- because something app wise has been installed that requires it. Alot of software on windows, requires things like framework to be added, linux is or can be the same.
The chances are you will be 99% secure in any event. The core defence for mobile phones is the phone companies themselves as that is in the realms of trillions of dollars at risk. They've been cracked before and they know it, so there is some possible reassurance for the devices, from that angle.

Are PRIVACY concerns overrated?

The single most important, most debated subject of being online - privacy and security.
While security is undisputed, privacy aspect is.
So what exactly is the concern? As normal people in normal professions (which is easily more than 90% of the population), is there a need for worry?
For a long time since I started using smartphones, I had a natural inclination towards remaining anonymous and private online. I would always use incognito browsing for everything I do online, never create an account with a service as much as possible (e.g. I would watch YouTube videos without signing in), etc.
With time, I began realizing that I am actually missing out on so many interesting things that matter to me, and much of the content that would interest me would be made available to me without much effort using machine learning and artificial intelligence, an area where huge investments are being made.
So slowly I started accessing content and using services with my Google account. Over time, everything from Google feed to YouTube videos were showing me content that I am interested in, and sometimes they were so intelligent that I have been amazed with the whole technology that is at works. Surely, you cannot expect a doctor to give you the right prescription without giving him complete details about your problems. You can't talk privacy there. So unless the system learns what you like and what you don't, there is no way it will present stuff (including ads) that will be interesting to you.
With that said, why are are we overemphasizing this aspect of our lives? Is the privacy lobby inflating the privacy problem more than is necessary? Especially since much of what Google learns (according to them) about you is private, and only you can access/ control it, and also because the open-source alternatives are overrated. I say overrated because there are no audit reports (from trustworthy audit entities) available. Their codes may be available for audit, but is there a trustworthy source that is actually auditing them? Are the platforms where they are available being audited? So the issue of privacy and security applies to these platforms too, and more so because they aren't scrutinized as heavily as Google products and services.
As far as more personal info is concerned, like location, age, gender, searches I perform, accounts, mobile number, etc - Google already has all those because I provided them with much of that info when I created my account. Sure, one can always provide fake info for some of them. But if you use 'Find my Device', you are pretty much giving away your location to Google REAL-TIME. While this can potentially be misused, how else is Google supposed to help you if you were to lose your device? Mobile numbers and email addresses are necessarily required to be correct because they are needed when you are locked out of your account. They are the only means to get your account back.
While I am a strong proponent of privacy, I also feel that too much is made out about a lot of stuff that aren't really something to worry about. Those stuff are essential to get the service we expect in return, in other words, putting technology to use.
That said, it is still important not to give anyone a free hand over data, and there has to be several layers of checks and balances, and accountability for safeguarding and using them.
All that said, my current position is this. Make best use of the technology at hand, because if you don't provide the necessary inputs, there cannot be a proper output.
As with some things that we do online which we might want to keep completely private, use a non-google browser (like Firefox Focus or Duck Duck Go) in incognito mode with Duck Duck Go search engine.
For everything else, use GOOGLE (assuming there is accountability and severe penalties for violations).

Reserved for additional info.

@Ultramanoid
We may continue the discussion here.
I have a few specific questions for which I haven't found answers. May be you or others could answer them. I'll compile them and post these later.

Sridhar Ananthanarayanan said:
@Ultramanoid
We may continue the discussion here.
I have a few specific questions for which I haven't found answers. May be you or others could answer them. I'll compile them and post these later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a hard time understanding how you can say you're a strong proponent of privacy, while at the same time justifying how you exchange yours for convenient services.
I can't justify that exchange, and yet use, work in, and develop in an IT field. No Google account here. So it'd be difficult to discuss the issue when our basic premises and understanding of the situation are completely opposed.
I want a good mail service, so I PAY for it, with MONEY, and I assure you it beats all the tech prowess and illusions of magic that GMail and its indecent, immoral, and insulting data mining and tracking provide. Same for everything else.
The aberration that is 'service' ( lower quality feature set, no support, security issues, client is the product ) for information, which, as mentioned in MiX's thread, also has the tremendously damaging side effect of reducing to zero the value of good honest developer work. 'Google gives it for free' -- No, it doesn't, and no, it's not free.
Edit : And by the way, giving your data away not only puts you at risk, it puts others at risk as well. Unacceptable.

Ultramanoid said:
I have a hard time understanding how you can say you're a strong proponent of privacy, while at the same time justifying how you exchange yours for convenient services.
I can't justify that exchange, and yet use, work in, and develop in an IT field. No Google account here. So it'd be difficult to discuss the issue when our basic premises and understanding of the situation are completely opposed.
I want a good mail service, so I PAY for it, with MONEY, and I assure you it beats all the tech prowess and illusions of magic that GMail and its indecent, immoral, and insulting data mining and tracking provide. Same for everything else.
The aberration that is 'service' ( lower quality feature set, no support, security issues, client is the product ) for information, which, as mentioned in MiX's thread, also has the tremendously damaging side effect of reducing to zero the value of good honest developer work. 'Google gives it for free' -- No, it doesn't, and no, it's not free.
Edit : And by the way, giving your data away not only puts you at risk, it puts others at risk as well. Unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You spoke of making 'reasonable compromises' on the MiX thread.
I have only elaborated the same. How does it matter if Google learns what I like to search on the internet? I am willing to give them that information so that they can provide me with content I am interested in, so that my news feed is mostly content I like to read/ watch, and little garbage. In the process, if they are showing me ads relevant to me, what is wrong with it?
My view is based only on this premise that this is how my data is being used. I have never had a financial security issue (like money being stolen from my account) because of what Google learns about my internet activity.
Also, I am assuming that Google won't learn anything about the searches I may do in incognito mode. They are supposed to respect the privacy. I'm aware they have been sued for not adhering to it strictly.
So assuming that they stick with usage of data as per their declared privacy policies and in accordance with laws, what is the problem?

Sridhar Ananthanarayanan said:
You spoke of making 'reasonable compromises' on the MiX thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As to security. As long as you rely on someone else's software, some company's cables and infrastructure, there's no other way.
No reasonable compromise on privacy in the "service x information" business model. It needs to die.
Edit : Have a look at this; https://privacytools.io ( "Privacy? I don't have anything to hide." )

my view on this is:
i agree, you should protect privacy as much you're able to, but if you need some services and you need "to give up privacy" for acquiring that service you need, then for me it's legit.
i wouldnt go all crazy on privacy as many go (to completely ditch google, windows, and become open source - privacy - government consipiracy evangelist), but i wouldnt rely on them for my whole life.
yes, i use google calendar and notes and all my data is on google, and if google go down or misuse my data, maybe i will lose that data but still i can easily use on another platform one stop working or is not trustworthy (publicly misuses data)
i love to use custom ROMs not to ditch google or become privacy conscious (using f-droid and living under rock without google services) but to ditch stock ROM from manufacturer as i dont like any manufacturer stock ROM, i want just their hardware, and software i want to be my choise.
for normal people storing something on google, microsoft, apple is not at all bad idea, when you store not that important or sensitive data on google. but i would never upload any top secret, sensitive data on any those services, as they WILL allow governemnt to exctract data (like edward snowden said ), so anyone from governemnt can access it or even misuse it, but if you dont store top secret sensitive info on those services you are fine.
if you want to store top secret sensitive data you would make it and encrypt it and store local copies.
and for google search, same applies, you will be fine with normal use, use firefox and duckgo , and also ingonito dont respect any privacy, it just make to browser not to store history, everything else is visible to them, unless you use firefox and duckgo.
and also many say vpn secure you (ones you buy) , but i wouldnt trust not even them (even if you pay), if you want to have encrypted connection you better MAKE your own VPN server (you can buy remote linux server online and make it as VPN), carrier to whom you pay for server dont care what you store on server (because you pay for it) and if governement comes to there he wont be able to provide anything.
but still even with all said, i dont advocate on trusting government as they dont care about freedom or rights, they care just about power, so protect privacy as much you are able to, but dont go all crazy on it, because best way to be secure on internet is not to use it at all, as at the end of the day dont forget that all intel, arm, amd chips (hardware) are hackable and exploitable to survevilance if they want to
EDIT: and also always remmeber, if you are censored for your rights, you have full right to protect your right, but i didnt got censored for searching for something on google. maybe google censored it to control media, but everyone do it, even media is manipulating you with fake news.
like if i am in china and i cant open news that reveal china government because china censorshiped that source "for greated good", i would use linux, tor and vpn so i can bypass censorship to know what's right. as long you dont face censorship for your rights it still okay to use those services, but if someone censorship for your rights, then its time to act and stand up for yourself, and not accept anyone's "censorship for greater good".

You know what's funny, people talking about privacy (intrinsically security also), yet many (and by many I mean the majority) of ROMs released on XDA are released without source code. Devs link to some other sources other than the source to be able to build the project. Here is an example. So while privacy is important, security is highly problematic with this modding model we all follow. Not to mention flashing different unchecked magiks modules.

Ultramanoid said:
As to security. As long as you rely on someone else's software, some company's cables and infrastructure, there's no other way.
No reasonable compromise on privacy in the "service x information" business model. It needs to die.
Edit : Have a look at this; https://privacytools.io ( "Privacy? I don't have anything to hide." )
　
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the moment you are online, you are presenting yourself to be tracked. No matter what tools you use to safeguard your privacy, a country's intelligence has an upper hand because they have the resources and much more advanced technology that is not commercially available.
They can also set up something like the link you shared as just another means to track you (by misleading you into believing that you are remaining private and anonymous).
I think one can truly stay private only by staying away from technology. Otherwise, you are just opening yourself up for tracking.

atttoush said:
You know what's funny, people talking about privacy (intrinsically security also), yet many (and by many I mean the majority) of ROMs released on XDA are released without source code. Devs link to some other sources other than the source to be able to build the project. Here is an example. So while privacy is important, security is highly problematic with this modding model we all follow. Not to mention flashing different unchecked magiks modules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope, check here
XDAevDB Information
[ROM][UNOFFICIAL][10.0.0][raphael] LineageOS 17.1, ROM for the Redmi K20 Pro
Source Code: http://bigota.d.miui.com/V11.0.1.0....NGlobal_V11.0.1.0.QFKINXM_5e75bba584_10.0.zip
this is source code for ROM, they are always released somewhere, github, dont matter, but they are released, you just need to look it up

indestructible master said:
nope, check here
XDAevDB Information
[ROM][UNOFFICIAL][10.0.0][raphael] LineageOS 17.1, ROM for the Redmi K20 Pro
Source Code: http://bigota.d.miui.com/V11.0.1.0....NGlobal_V11.0.1.0.QFKINXM_5e75bba584_10.0.zip
this is source code for ROM, they are always released somewhere, github, dont matter, but they are released, you just need to look it up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a source code ... Just because it says source code, it doesn't mean it's a source code. That's a zip file containing the OEM firmware from Xiaomi.

indestructible master said:
my view on this is:
i agree, you should protect privacy as much you're able to, but if you need some services and you need "to give up privacy" for acquiring that service you need, then for me it's legit.
i wouldnt go all crazy on privacy as many go (to completely ditch google, windows, and become open source - privacy - government consipiracy evangelist), but i wouldnt rely on them for my whole life.
yes, i use google calendar and notes and all my data is on google, and if google go down or misuse my data, maybe i will lose that data but still i can easily use on another platform one stop working or is not trustworthy (publicly misuses data)
i love to use custom ROMs not to ditch google or become privacy conscious (using f-droid and living under rock without google services) but to ditch stock ROM from manufacturer as i dont like any manufacturer stock ROM, i want just their hardware, and software i want to be my choise.
for normal people storing something on google, microsoft, apple is not at all bad idea, when you store not that important or sensitive data on google. but i would never upload any top secret, sensitive data on any those services, as they WILL allow governemnt to exctract data (like edward snowden said ), so anyone from governemnt can access it or even misuse it, but if you dont store top secret sensitive info on those services you are fine.
if you want to store top secret sensitive data you would make it and encrypt it and store local copies.
and for google search, same applies, you will be fine with normal use, use firefox and duckgo , and also ingonito dont respect any privacy, it just make to browser not to store history, everything else is visible to them, unless you use firefox and duckgo.
and also many say vpn secure you (ones you buy) , but i wouldnt trust not even them (even if you pay), if you want to have encrypted connection you better MAKE your own VPN server (you can buy remote linux server online and make it as VPN), carrier to whom you pay for server dont care what you store on server (because you pay for it) and if governement comes to there he wont be able to provide anything.
but still even with all said, i dont advocate on trusting government as they dont care about freedom or rights, they care just about power, so protect privacy as much you are able to, but dont go all crazy on it, because best way to be secure on internet is not to use it at all, as at the end of the day dont forget that all intel, arm, amd chips (hardware) are hackable and exploitable to survevilance if they want to
EDIT: and also always remmeber, if you are censored for your rights, you have full right to protect your right, but i didnt got censored for searching for something on google. maybe google censored it to control media, but everyone do it, even media is manipulating you with fake news.
like if i am in china and i cant open news that reveal china government because china censorshiped that source "for greated good", i would use linux, tor and vpn so i can bypass censorship to know what's right. as long you dont face censorship for your rights it still okay to use those services, but if someone censorship for your rights, then its time to act and stand up for yourself, and not accept anyone's "censorship for greater good".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said, we are overemphasizing on many of the things and linking them to privacy. Much of the seemingly private things have no bearing in real life, even when made public. Because, no matter where you are, you have to adhere to the local laws and your internet activity isn't important (unless one is into prohibited activities).
It is a very niche segment of people (like those working for intelligence, journalists, etc.) that must pay special attention. For most others, there isn't too much to worry about, as long as the companies providing services adhere to data regulations and act with responsibility.

atttoush said:
You know what's funny, people talking about privacy (intrinsically security also), yet many (and by many I mean the majority) of ROMs released on XDA are released without source code. Devs link to some other sources other than the source to be able to build the project. Here is an example. So while privacy is important, security is highly problematic with this modding model we all follow. Not to mention flashing different unchecked magiks modules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Few months back, I made a decision to stop using custom ROMs. This decision is made easier by OEMs promising 3 to 4 years of software/ security updates.
OEM ROMs are largely scrutinized. Custom ROMs are not. You never know what they bake into their codes. There is absolutely no assurance on them respecting your privacy or security.

Sridhar Ananthanarayanan said:
Few months back, I made a decision to stop using custom ROMs. This decision is made easier by OEMs promising 3 to 4 years of software/ security updates.
OEM ROMs are largely scrutinized. Custom ROMs are not. You never know what they bake into their codes. There is absolutely no assurance on them respecting your privacy or security.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the case with few established ROMs. Lineage OS comes to mind. As they encourage people to build ROMs from source. But device support is problematic. That's why I turn to custom ROMs. It's a great idea, but I thought XDA ROMs guaranteed security with the GPL and Open source philosophy. But it's being violated all over the place.

Sridhar Ananthanarayanan said:
Few months back, I made a decision to stop using custom ROMs. This decision is made easier by OEMs promising 3 to 4 years of software/ security updates.
OEM ROMs are largely scrutinized. Custom ROMs are not. You never know what they bake into their codes. There is absolutely no assurance on them respecting your privacy or security.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which OEMs are these ? Please mention one and point to where and how their code can be reviewed. Almost none provide support for a device after 2 or 3 years. Almost none are scrutinized because their additions to Android are proprietary and closed source, they barely release kernel changes and those only because they are legally obliged, sometimes even after the device which uses that kernel is not even on sale anymore.
Partial exception for SONY, that provides repositories for AOSP support for many of their devices, and sometimes have released blobs ( not code ) for their drivers and cameras. This is the rare exception, not the rule.
Almost no OEMs provide timely security updates incorporating Google's monthly patches for critical vulnerabilities. Some pile them up in batches, leaving devices vulnerable for months and even years. Stagefright, bluetooth, Qualcomm ... They don't give a crap.
Get the facts straight.
Lineage, in contrast, is developed in plain sight by hundreds of developers revising the code every single day, include Google's vulnerability patches religiously every month and have provided fixes time and again for things Google and OEMs don't bother to fix. They also support devices securely years after OEMs have completely abandoned them.
LineageOS
A free and open-source operating system for various devices, based on the Android mobile platform. This is a mirror of https://review.lineageos.org/ - LineageOS
github.com
Edit : Remember that this is a developers' forum, by developers for developers. Checking and editing code daily is what we do.
Edit 2 : Can't comment as to other 'custom ROMs', from which it may very well be better to stay away.

Ultramanoid said:
Which OEMs are these ? Please mention one and point to where and how their code can be reviewed. Almost none provide support for a device after 2 or 3 years. Almost none are scrutinized because their additions to Android are proprietary and closed source, they barely release kernel changes and those only because they are legally obliged, sometimes even after the device which uses that kernel is not even on sale anymore.
Partial exception for SONY, that provides repositories for AOSP support for many of their devices, and sometimes have released blobs ( not code ) for their drivers and cameras. This is the rare exception, not the rule.
Almost no OEMs provide timely security updates incorporating Google's monthly patches for critical vulnerabilities. Some pile them up in batches, leaving devices vulnerable for months and even years. Stagefright, bluetooth, Qualcomm ... They don't give a crap.
Get the facts straight.
Lineage, in contrast, is developed in plain sight by hundreds of developers revising the code every single day, include Google's vulnerability patches religiously every month and have provided fixes time and again for things Google and OEMs don't bother to fix. They also support devices securely years after OEMs have completely abandoned them.
LineageOS
A free and open-source operating system for various devices, based on the Android mobile platform. This is a mirror of https://review.lineageos.org/ - LineageOS
github.com
Edit : Remember that this is a developers' forum, by developers for developers. Checking and editing code daily is what we do.
Edit 2 : Can't comment as to other 'custom ROMs', from which it may very well be better to stay away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say that OEMs make their source codes available. I said they are scrutinized. Scrutinized by security researchers around the world, who may or may not be funded by competition. There is lot of benefits by doing so because OEMs can use this as an opportunity to push sales of their own devices. Example is the clipboard scandal of OnePlus, as well as others.
Compare that to custom ROMs. There are so many custom ROMs available for popular devices. Official builds, unofficial builds, nightlies, etc. etc. The ROMs are available for free. Who cares to audit/ scrutinize these? No one cares because there is nothing to gain. This is also because a very minute % of Android users actually install custom ROMs. So no one cares.
Just like root, the need for custom ROMs is decreasing by the day. OEMs are now promising upto 3 years of Android upgrades and 4 years of security updates, atleast for their flagship devices. And now the Google-Qualcomm partnership that is making these upgrades easier and faster. Unlike in the past, OEMs are much faster in releasing security updates today.
Lineage official builds, in my experience, isn't feature rich like some other custom ROMs or unofficial forks of Lineage. People may opt for Lineage official builds primarily for two reasons:
1. Debloat their OEM software like those from Xiaomi, Huawei, even Samsung.
2. OEM has stopped providing official support (this is now changing because 3 to 4 years of official support is synonymous to life of the device because a large % of people usually buy a new device every 3 or 4 years).
Some of the developers of custom ROMs are arrogant arses. That's another reason to tell them to eff-off.

Sridhar Ananthanarayanan said:
I said they are scrutinized. Scrutinized by security researchers around the world, who may or may not be funded by competition.
OEMs are now promising upto 3 years of Android upgrades and 4 years of security updates, atleast for their flagship devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Which security experts ? We have some in XDA whose daily job is precisely that, have you spoken to them ? I don't know of a single audit of any OEM's version of Android. Please mention or link at least one if you think they exist.
2. Which OEMs ? I don't know of a single OEM providing support of any kind for any of their devices ( maybe OnePlus barely reaches 3 for some of theirs, again, a very rare exception ) beyond 3 years, much less 4.
Provide real data points or stop speculating on vague promises and supposed security experts somewhere. When I say LineageOS is available, you can see it is. You can also build SONY's AOSP from their code. ( Edit : https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/ )
One thing is to express an opinion, another to give facts.

Ultramanoid said:
1. Which security experts ? We have some in XDA whose daily job is precisely that, have you spoken to them ? I don't know of a single audit of any OEM's version of Android. Please mention or link at least one if you think they exist.
2. Which OEMs ? I don't know of a single OEM providing support of any kind for any of their devices ( maybe OnePlus barely reaches 3 for some of theirs, again, a very rare exception ) beyond 3 years, much less 4.
Provide real data points or stop speculating on vague promises and supposed security experts somewhere. When I say LineageOS is available, you can see it is. You can also build SONY's AOSP from their code. ( Edit : https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/ )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fact 1: OnePlus is collecting your private data without permission
Fact 2: Engineer Mode
Fact 3: Clipboard Scandal
Fact 4: Shot on OnePlus
Fact 5: MiUI stealthily sending user data back to China
Fact 6: Xiaomi Recording Millions Of People’s ‘Private’ Web And Phone Use
...
Thats just some of them. If you search, you will find more.
In most of these cases, it is some security researcher somewhere in the world who found a questionable activity that goes against acceptable privacy and security standards. In other cases, it was some random user who found a vulnerability or some unacceptable practice.
The point? Number of users of stock ROMs are way way higher than those that use custom ROMs, and as a result someone somewhere might find something either accidentally, or as part of security research work (paid by competition or otherwise).
OEMs will be careful when they make their ROMs. They are not only under scrutiny, but also need to ensure they stick with doing the right things because they have a business to run. The same isn't true for custom ROMs that some nobody will make and act like trash when questioned. Thats also because the product is free (or may not be depending on what is baked into the codes) and so the developer may think he isn't answerable.
Ultramanoid said:
One thing is to express an opinion, another to give facts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now you may point out the opinions. All the above are actually facts, that support my previous comment.

Sridhar Ananthanarayanan said:
Fact 1: OnePlus is collecting your private data without permission
Fact 2: Engineer Mode
Fact 3: Clipboard Scandal
Fact 4: Shot on OnePlus
Fact 5: MiUI stealthily sending user data back to China
Fact 6: Xiaomi Recording Millions Of People’s ‘Private’ Web And Phone Use
...
Thats just some of them. If you search, you will find more.
In most of these cases, it is some security researcher somewhere in the world who found a questionable activity that goes against acceptable privacy and security standards. In other cases, it was some random user who found a vulnerability or some unacceptable practice.
The point? Number of users of stock ROMs are way way higher than those that use custom ROMs, and as a result someone somewhere might find something either accidentally, or as part of security research work (paid by competition or otherwise).
OEMs will be careful when they make their ROMs. They are not only under scrutiny, but also need to ensure they stick with doing the right things because they have a business to run. The same isn't true for custom ROMs that some nobody will make and act like trash when questioned. Thats also because the product is free (or may not be depending on what is baked into the codes) and so the developer may think he isn't answerable.
Now you may point out the opinions. All the above are actually facts, that support my previous comment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What all that proves is that OEMs are pure solid garbage, thank you for agreeing. Rest the case already. ^_^
Sorry to hear you still prefer to stand by out of date systems, unsecured protocols, and shady immoral companies. It is useless to discuss when you keep insisting on sustaining your biased opinion against hard evidence -- that YOU yourself provided.
Cheers !

Ultramanoid said:
What all that proves is that OEMs are pure solid garbage, thank you for agreeing. Rest the case already. ^_^
Sorry to hear you still prefer to stand by out of date systems, unsecured protocols, and shady immoral companies. It is useless to discuss when you keep insisting on sustaining your biased opinion against hard evidence -- that YOU yourself provided.
Cheers !
　
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are simply exaggerating it.
Like the saying goes, better to trust the known devil than the unknown angel.
Cheers!

Database Info

welcome