Well topic/discussion purposed is Samsung's muddled delivery of ICS part of a larger rumoured back lash from manufacturers whom seem to be upset at Google for three reasons? First is Google’s acquisition of Motorola mobility apparently still doesn’t sit well with OEM's, the discontent has been amplified by reason number two. Some still don’t buy the party line of patent purchase only. This seems ungrateful from an outsiders point of view should this speculation hold true.
See such an article here:
http://www.androidauthority.com/google-motorola-deal-android-manufacturers-73966/
Second is Google trying to execute more control as many in blogs and tech articles have suggested Google should. This has been to address the issues of diversity and “fragmentation” that Google has faced criticism for. To what degree is Google executing control still remains to be seen. On a side note I and others have suggested the OEM’s give a stronger and narrower focus with fewer new devices but more polish and support.
Third is that Google with Android has not shown the preferential treatment the big players would have preferred; allowing smaller brands to gain ground and market share using this open platform. Brands like Archos, ZTE, and Huawei. Also allowed ASUS to gain a foot hold in the mobile market, ASUS who now seems to have a strong relationship with Google.
Samsung’s fudged ICS upgrade alone may mean nothing. But with HTC recent delivery and overhaul of ICS, combined with Sony decision to possibly hold ICS upgrades because it feels they miss the mark of quality could be indications of such unrest with the Manufacturers is more than just rumours. If such unhappiness is present and being actioned or plotted that’s where things turn interesting or concerning.
Many would think this unwise considering the lack of success with Manufacturers own proprietary OS’s. Nokia's Symbian slowly lost out, Bada is nowhere near the success Sammy had hoped for, despite cited as being more popular at the beginning of this year than Windows Phone. Meego didn't see much of a life.
Let me hear what you have to say on this topic
I think regarding the purchase of Motorola, it is definitely seen as simply a patent buyout. There are plenty of rumours of them already trying to sell the hardware side of Motorola.
Gaining 17,000 (or was it 12,000) patents is going to be a very good thing for manufacturers, knowing that they are much less likely to be sued with the added protection from the extra patents. However, if rumours are true and Google is looking to sell to Huwaie (?) then that will be another manufacturer up there all vying for a shot at the big time. The good thing is competition breed competition, so we will see devices continuously being updated and bettered, whereas the iPhone will not see this at such a rate.
I think Google trying to take a bit more control over Android is overall a good thing, even if manufacturers may not like it so much because it means it is harder to put out the cheaper handsets that have been selling so well.
siravarice said:
I think regarding the purchase of Motorola, it is definitely seen as simply a patent buyout. There are plenty of rumours of them already trying to sell the hardware side of Motorola.
Gaining 17,000 (or was it 12,000) patents is going to be a very good thing for manufacturers, knowing that they are much less likely to be sued with the added protection from the extra patents. However, if rumours are true and Google is looking to sell to Huwaie (?) then that will be another manufacturer up there all vying for a shot at the big time. The good thing is competition breed competition, so we will see devices continuously being updated and bettered, whereas the iPhone will not see this at such a rate.
I think Google trying to take a bit more control over Android is overall a good thing, even if manufacturers may not like it so much because it means it is harder to put out the cheaper handsets that have been selling so well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far Google hasn't appeared to have had much influence on Motorola, many because it hasn't been fully approved/finalized. Oddly enough the hold up is China. The strength of the rumour Google selling the Hardware division to Hauwei is the ability to capitalise on the lucrative Chinese market where Android already is dominating.
Time will tell about the patent side, although no evidence is apparent that supports its more than a patent purchase. We'll have to see who gets the next Nexus smartphone and tablet.
So ya I'm working on a research about the expending Chinese smartphone market
And I want to know what westerner like you guys think about Chinese smartphone, like what is your impression on Xiaomi or one plus one, and of course I'm a Asian so please help !!!!
If you can, I also want to know what phone you are using as a reference
thank you
As long as the company is reputable, and the phone is genuine, I see no problems with them. Pretty much all smartphones are made in china now anyways, and I have really heard no horror stories about established companies like Xiaomi, although OnePlus did have their weird and "questionable" marketing strategies. I use a oneplus one as my daily driver, and have had no problems with the actual phone its self, in fact I love it. I think many buyers are put off by some of the crap they have seen from Chinese phone manufacturers, that they haven't looked into the higher end stuff, just the cheap crap, which is, predictably for the price, crap. But at the higher end? I see no reason for there to be any difference between a Chinese phone, a Korean phone, or a Japanese phone in terms of build quality, as long as the company producing it puts in the effort and cost.
snekiam said:
As long as the company is reputable, and the phone is genuine, I see no problems with them. Pretty much all smartphones are made in china now anyways, and I have really heard no horror stories about established companies like Xiaomi, although OnePlus did have their weird and "questionable" marketing strategies. I use a oneplus one as my daily driver, and have had no problems with the actual phone its self, in fact I love it. I think many buyers are put off by some of the crap they have seen from Chinese phone manufacturers, that they haven't looked into the higher end stuff, just the cheap crap, which is, predictably for the price, crap. But at the higher end? I see no reason for there to be any difference between a Chinese phone, a Korean phone, or a Japanese phone in terms of build quality, as long as the company producing it puts in the effort and cost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your rely, I see your point there, is very useful for my research
Um probably in the minority but I've always liked ZTE and Huawei. I'll never own a clone though from a questionable manufacturer. Mainly stock Android and unlocked bootloaders.
Sent from my Z667T using XDA Free mobile app
As of end of 2022, only Samsung phones come with their own Dialer (with automatic silent call recording feature).
Most other popular brands like OnePlus, Xiaomi, and others are now using Google Dialer on their phones (in Global markets except China). This is to the point that one can't even install the OEM dialer without dangerous workarounds that will have other implications.
Can anyone share precise reasons (no speculation) on why this is so?
Even though I read about how nations are penalizing Google for anti-competitive practices, the situation on the ground continues to get worse: more and more Google apps out of the box.
TheMystic said:
As of end of 2022, only Samsung phones come with their own Dialer (with automatic silent call recording feature).
Most other popular brands like OnePlus, Xiaomi, and others are now using Google Dialer on their phones (in Global markets except China). This is to the point that one can't even install the OEM dialer without dangerous workarounds that will have other implications.
Can anyone share precise reasons (no speculation) on why this is so?
Even though I read about how nations are penalizing Google for anti-competitive practices, the situation on the ground continues to get worse: more and more Google apps out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OEMs would rather use the Google suite than develop their own software. The only outlier is Samsung, who for whatever reason, still thinks they're a software company.
Why dedicate additional resources to unnecessary development when there is a fully developed and polished common Gapps suite available?
V0latyle said:
OEMs would rather use the Google suite than develop their own software. The only outlier is Samsung, who for whatever reason, still thinks they're a software company.
Why dedicate additional resources to unnecessary development when there is a fully developed and polished common Gapps suite available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The dialer is the most basic application and all OEMs (except Nothing and may be Motorola too) were/ are having their own Dialer. In China and some other markets, the phones come with OEM dialer even today.
They don't have to dedicate additional resources to compete with Google Dialer (which has smart features), but why aren't they letting the user make that decision?
The global software actually blocks their own Dialer from working if it is sideloaded. This appears to be just another instance of Google's monopolistic dominance, despite all the regulations and penalties prohibiting such behaviour.
TheMystic said:
The dialer is the most basic application and all OEMs (except Nothing and may be Motorola too) were/ are having their own Dialer. In China and some other markets, the phones come with OEM dialer even today.
They don't have to dedicate additional resources to compete with Google Dialer (which has smart features), but why aren't they letting the user make that decision?
The global software actually blocks their own Dialer from working if it is sideloaded. This appears to be just another instance of Google's monopolistic dominance, despite all the regulations and penalties prohibiting such behaviour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that would be more to blame on the firmware OEM than Google, but I suppose it's a matter of perspective.
V0latyle said:
The only outlier is Samsung, who for whatever reason, still thinks they're a software company.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha, ha! Samsung - I really used to like 'em. Now? I spread my indifference as thick as your sarcastic observation here.
GOOGLE_USER said:
Ha, ha! Samsung - I really used to like 'em. Now? I spread my indifference as thick as your sarcastic observation here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the Sammy dialer, never crashes but it has its quirks.
Samsung... has done nothing but disappoint and drop balls since the N10+, the zenith point for Sammy. Even today after 3+ years it remains my weapon of choice. Unfortunately Samsung has given me zer0 incentive to buy a newer Samsung flagship model. They suck now. So bad that a year ago I bought another new N10+ running on Q, no regrets especially now.
After Android 10 Google made a big smelly mess of the Android OS, it reeks of iPhone now. Pie remainder my favorite OS and my original N10+ will never be upgraded.
Gookill...
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V0latyle said:
The only outlier is Samsung, who for whatever reason, still thinks they're a software company.
Why dedicate additional resources to unnecessary development when there is a fully developed and polished common Gapps suite available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So should monopoly be encouraged?
And Bixby is very good these days, even though it hasn't been able to get rid of the bad reputation it gained for itself initially.
V0latyle said:
I think that would be more to blame on the firmware OEM than Google, but I suppose it's a mtter of perspective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my OnePlus 8T, when it was on Android 11, there is a OnePlus Dialer apk (either a mod or one extracted from the Chinese ROM) that worked perfectly fine.
But after upgrading to Android 12 and now 13, it doesn't work. It's been over a year since Android 12 was launched, and yet there is no compatible apk. The workarounds involve rooting the device or installing a ROM from another region such as China/ Indonesia, etc, all of which shouldn't be necessary.
It appears Google is paying these brands a lot of money, in violation (in principle) of the regulations prohibiting anti-competitive practices.
blackhawk said:
I like the Sammy dialer, never crashes but it has its quirks.
Samsung... has done nothing but disappoint and drop balls since the N10+, the zenith point for Sammy. Even today after 3+ years it remains my weapon of choice. Unfortunately Samsung has given me zer0 incentive to buy a newer Samsung flagship model. They suck now. So bad that a year ago I bought another new N10+ running on Q, no regrets especially now.
After Android 10 Google made a big smelly mess of the Android OS, it reeks of iPhone now. Pie remainder my favorite OS and my original N10+ will never be upgraded.
Gookill...
View attachment 5802393
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know why you keep saying this about OneUI. I have OneUI on my S22U and it is excellent (ofcourse there are some deficiencies and areas requiring improvement).
I'm going to stick with Samsung as my primary phone for primarily two reasons:
1. Excellent cameras (zoom feature is unmatched ).
2. Silent Automatic call recording feature.
There are other good reasons too, but these are my primary considerations now.
TheMystic said:
The dialer is the most basic application and all OEMs (except Nothing and may be Motorola too) were/ are having their own Dialer. In China and some other markets, the phones come with OEM dialer even today.
They don't have to dedicate additional resources to compete with Google Dialer (which has smart features), but why aren't they letting the user make that decision?
The global software actually blocks their own Dialer from working if it is sideloaded. This appears to be just another instance of Google's monopolistic dominance, despite all the regulations and penalties prohibiting such behaviour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since Samsung started with their Tizen crap, they have been trying to copy Apple's tactic of trying to separate themselves from everyone else with a white knuckle grip on their hardware and software. Apple crap only works with Apple crap and Samsung crap only works with Samsung crap.
Droidriven said:
Since Samsung started with their Tizen crap, they have been trying to copy Apple's tactic of trying to separate themselves from everyone else with a white knuckle grip on their hardware and software. Apple crap only works with Apple crap and Samsung crap only works with Samsung crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trying to be self reliant, even if it means copying a competitor, is a good thing. And having more options to choose from is essential to limit/ prevent monopoly. This not only helps with innovation, but also translates into lower prices for consumers.
It is unfortunate that Tizen failed. But i wish they could revive it and come up with an alternative to iOS and Android.
Talking of crap, Apple is still unbeatable in some areas, no matter how much crap a section of consumers talk about it.
TheMystic said:
So should monopoly be encouraged?
And Bixby is very good these days, even though it hasn't been able to get rid of the bad reputation it gained for itself initially.
I don't know why you keep saying this about OneUI. I have OneUI on my S22U and it is excellent (ofcourse there are some deficiencies and areas requiring improvement).
I'm going to stick with Samsung as my primary phone for primarily two reasons:
1. Excellent cameras (zoom feature is unmatched ).
2. Silent Automatic call recording feature.
There are other good reasons too, but these are my primary considerations now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bixby and Google Assistant are always disabled by me. Read Bixby's EULA, eek, not to mention battery usage.
I like One UI a lot but the new Samsung flagships hardware sucks elephant balls bad. Power hogs that lack good balance and form factor. The S22U has excellent an layout and frame, but it comes to a grinding halt there. No SD card.
Worse this 3 yo N10+ is only slightly slower in day to day usage and sometimes faster in spite of the S22U's higher benchmark scores and faster, more efficient ram. 12+ hour run times on an optimized N10+ with a smaller battery and way better form factor.
Even the latest incarnation of the discontinued Buds+ has lousy battery life. meh.
Like Google Samsung is now more hype and smoke than rubber biting into the asphalt. 3 years of expensive disappointments. The worst losing streak in Samsung history. That's not counting the Fold series of travesties. That's what I think... be glad you're not the next Samsung rep I speak with feel the wuv.
TheMystic said:
So should monopoly be encouraged?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like to think I'm rather outspoken about the problems of monopolies in Big Tech, when the majority of the Internet is controlled by a few large companies who all work together on censorship and suppression of information. I was simply pointing out the "why" from a purely business perspective - these OEMs are using Google's apps so they no longer have to maintain their own - and was not implying that I agree with it.
TheMystic said:
And Bixby is very good these days, even though it hasn't been able to get rid of the bad reputation it gained for itself initially.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally would much rather use Google software over Samsung, but that's just me.
TheMystic said:
On my OnePlus 8T, when it was on Android 11, there is a OnePlus Dialer apk (either a mod or one extracted from the Chinese ROM) that worked perfectly fine.
But after upgrading to Android 12 and now 13, it doesn't work. It's been over a year since Android 12 was launched, and yet there is no compatible apk. The workarounds involve rooting the device or installing a ROM from another region such as China/ Indonesia, etc, all of which shouldn't be necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, but my evidently vague point was that OEMs are usually acting in what they think are their own business interests, not so much their consumers' interests.
TheMystic said:
It appears Google is paying these brands a lot of money, in violation (in principle) of the regulations prohibiting anti-competitive practices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not so sure. While AOSP is maintained by Google, they've done a good job (in my opinion) of keeping Google services separate from the core OS components. As far as I know (haven't tested this myself so this is largely conjecture) there is nothing within AOSP itself that prevents you from using third party software for device functions, so anything that does has been implemented in OEM firmware by the OEM themselves. This is why many people prefer to run AOSP if it all possible.
blackhawk said:
Bixby and Google Assistant are always disabled by me. Read Bixby's EULA, eek, not to mention battery usage.
I like One UI a lot but the new Samsung flagships hardware sucks elephant balls bad. Power hogs that lack good balance and form factor. The S22U has excellent an layout and frame, but it comes to a grinding halt there. No SD card.
Worse this 3 yo N10+ is only slightly slower in day to day usage and sometimes faster in spite of the S22U's higher benchmark scores and faster, more efficient ram. 12+ hour run times on an optimized N10+ with a smaller battery and way better form factor.
Even the latest incarnation of the discontinued Buds+ has lousy battery life. meh.
Like Google Samsung is now more hype and smoke than rubber biting into the asphalt. 3 years of expensive disappointments. The worst losing streak in Samsung history. That's not counting the Fold series of travesties. That's what I think... be glad you're not the next Samsung rep I speak with feel the wuv.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery life and absence of SD card are the only two things here.
Are you also not able to debloat the newer devices like you have done the N10+?
You won't find sd card on any flagship device today. So blaming Samsung alone is pointless.
As with battery life, it is quite average though. But the quality of cameras are enough for me to choose Samsung over every other brand.
V0latyle said:
these OEMs are using Google's apps so they no longer have to maintain their own
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing this point: they still maintain these apps for some of the markets like China. There is no additional maintenance required in making that available for other markets.
What is difficult to understand is that their own dialer apk extracted from supported ROMs doesn't work in their global ROMs. There are so many dialer apps on Google Play Store that work fine. But not OEM's own dialer.
That tells me they are being paid by Google to create a restriction like that. Makes business and commercial sense because they are getting free money.
V0latyle said:
I personally would much rather use Google software over Samsung, but that's just me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, although I don't use any digital assistants. But that's because Google's products are available on other platforms too like iOS, and it won't be incorrect to say that they are still better too.
Just found these two links:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344617037964800000
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/knozmc
Not much detail is available though on either of them.
TheMystic said:
Just found these two links:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344617037964800000
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/knozmc
Not much detail is available though on either of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, I'd definitely like to see more information on this.
I did find this although it doesn't seem to be addressing the same concept:
Device Tier Targeting allows you to deliver different versions (e.g. resolutions, etc.) of the same asset to devices based on their hardware. For example, you may choose to deliver low resolution assets to lower end devices to improve performance, and deliver high resolution assets to higher end devices to improve graphic quality - all without incurring any increase in overall game size by only delivering the necessary assets to users' devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps it means Tier 1 manufacturers, meaning direct suppliers of the final product - Samsung, LG, Foxconn, Motorola, Huawei, Xiaomi, etc
vs Tier 2, subcontractors or suppliers for tier 1, so this would be who manufactures the subassemblies such as completed PCBs, screens, batteries, etc
Tier 3 are the suppliers/subcontractors for tier 2, meaning who provides bare PCBs, electronic components, display panels, touch digitizers, display glass, etc
But this doesn't really suss out because Google doesn't force the use of Google services on Samsung phones, or even Pixels for that matter.
TheMystic said:
As of end of 2022, only Samsung phones come with their own Dialer (with automatic silent call recording feature).
Most other popular brands like OnePlus, Xiaomi, and others are now using Google Dialer on their phones (in Global markets except China). This is to the point that one can't even install the OEM dialer without dangerous workarounds that will have other implications.
Can anyone share precise reasons (no speculation) on why this is so?
Even though I read about how nations are penalizing Google for anti-competitive practices, the situation on the ground continues to get worse: more and more Google apps out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are no monopolistic practices on the dialer. You can download a simple dialer from the store and install it, then set it as the default dialer.
TheMystic said:
Battery life and absence of SD card are the only two things here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huge things that effect the core usability greatly.
TheMystic said:
Are you also not able to debloat the newer devices like you have done the N10+?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since scoped storage was fully implemented Android is a mess. I'm running 9 and 10.
TheMystic said:
You won't find sd card on any flagship device today. So blaming Samsung alone is pointless.
As with battery life, it is quite average though. But the quality of cameras are enough for me to choose Samsung over every other brand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I waited 3 years and can wait 3 more. I don't care.
No trophies for losers Sammy. I'm not particularly the forgiving kind and Samsung's credibility is now that of pond scum. No better than the worst slimy used car salesman that tried to con me with lies, falsehoods and sure to be broken promises.
The cams aren't that great; the sensors are too small with not enough corrective elements in lens for one thing. A pro cam/lense will rip them to shreds. I take pictures with it but it's awkward and not nearly as useful as a pro cam for many reasons including you look like another a hole Tiktok wannabe influencer shooting with a smartphone.
Far more important is color/gamma accurate display, and having a dual drive with a 1tb data drive. Color/gamma accuracy as well as display reliability suffer on all the Samsung variable refresh rate displays. The N10+ still has the best display to bezel ratio, is lighter, slimer, best SOT, highest storage capacity and more than likely the best color/gamma accuracy/calibration.
Lol, the dialer is the least of Samsung's issues. Samsung has much bigger elephants in the room now.
3 years... is that all you got Samsung?
Give me your best shot or I will TKO you.
V0latyle said:
Interesting, I'd definitely like to see more information on this.
I did find this although it doesn't seem to be addressing the same concept:
Perhaps it means Tier 1 manufacturers, meaning direct suppliers of the final product - Samsung, LG, Foxconn, Motorola, Huawei, Xiaomi, etc
vs Tier 2, subcontractors or suppliers for tier 1, so this would be who manufactures the subassemblies such as completed PCBs, screens, batteries, etc
Tier 3 are the suppliers/subcontractors for tier 2, meaning who provides bare PCBs, electronic components, display panels, touch digitizers, display glass, etc
But this doesn't really suss out because Google doesn't force the use of Google services on Samsung phones, or even Pixels for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there are two aspects to this:
1. GDPR
2. All these OEMs except Samsung are Chinese companies.
Given the timing, it appears there is a link between these.
ze7zez said:
There are no monopolistic practices on the dialer. You can download a simple dialer from the store and install it, then set it as the default dialer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are many dialers that work. Only the OEM dialer doesn't work.
TheMystic said:
There are many dialers that work. Only the OEM dialer doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's pretty fking funny.
What good is a phone that can't be dialed?