Related
I've been a long time Xperia user. Currently have the Z3 and plan to move up to XZ. The Z3 camera is a so so. Beaten by Samsung and iPhone easily. The Z3 is flare galore and I have 2 of them purchased at different times so it is not a sampling issue.
The Xperia XZ is now advertised as "Our camera know-how, in a smartphone". With all those fancy laser focus, high megapixels, and quick focus; yet, from the following review, iPhone 7 beats the XZ in terms of IQ and resolution. Resolution, at least, in the blue colors.
Please tell me the review above is incorrect and the XZ camera is at least comparable to iPhone 7.
From my experience with my XP vs iPhone 6 the iPhone almost always adheres true to the experience detailed in this video.
I would anticipate that the video comparison is true to past form which seemingly continues through to the XZ/iPhone7 stand off.
Unfortunate yes. Somehow iphone are always sh!tting on Sony's camera advances.
You'd be forgiven to think Sony would have the upper hand in atleast the camera department. But it's just not the case. Sure the XZ is going to have a great camera, but I would assume the conclusion from the video would remain true.
Albeit first hand comparisons are required to judge for self. Even then, unfortunately I foresee I'd probably end up concurring with the btekt guys conclusion (based on historical trends with what Sony and indeed iPhone bring to the table with each respective iteration.)
Sent from my F8131 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Watching above video, I noticed that his xperia xz camera was in manual mode and not in default values because settings icon turned blue.
Pictures of low light seem over exposure with xperia. I don't think it was on default setting.
I doubt the video is unbiased. Just my cents.
Sent from my SGP771 using Tapatalk
Sony just developed these new sensors.. and as always they need a lot of time to tweak the software in order for everything to work correctly and as it should. Basically it is happening with every sony device. So let's be patiend and see how the XZ is going to.. ''evolve''.
effective said:
Sony just developed these new sensors.. and as always they need a lot of time to tweak the software in order for everything to work correctly and as it should. Basically it is happening with every sony device. So let's be patiend and see how the XZ is going to.. ''evolve''.
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Exactly, it really does not seem to be "default" setting for Sony.
But will need to test low light pictures on my own to get the clue.
I know how it was with Z5, I really hope this time they are doing proper testing before putting it into the boxes...
I had never seen a sony phone that in it's first or second release rom the camera or overall experience is good. a couple or rom updates, and then it could give more fight.
Anyway, it's a shame that sony develop the iphone camera's sensors, but for own usage, they use (IHMO) the less good. OR, the camera software by sony is a crap.
In my experiences with Xperia videography (from Z2 onwards) it's best to deactivate Scene Autodetection because it stops camera software over-compensating when perhaps you don't want/need it to ...
Whilst I think the iPhone records superb video, so does my XP (and so did my Z2, Z3+, Z5C) ... I'd be hard pressed to tell you which is which in blind testing.
The XZ I have on order should only improve the Sony videography.
Also, have you tried recording stereo sound with your video on the iPhone? It's a hassle and can't be done without addons (I'm pretty sure the iPhone 7(+) still records monaural unless someone can correct me?)
Smartphone Photography belongs to Apple.
Smartphone Videography, the motion picture, *could* belong to Sony if they get their marketing right (and their thermals lol)
Can you change white balance settings (not just the tint) in video mode? There is a video on YouTube comparing it to the iPhone 6 Plus and the WB control on the XZ is terrible - it shifts whenever the camera moves to the tables while the iPhone is fairly stable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNFsnQg3cG8
It is a personal point of view but Sony is way better than 6s... At least for me and from this comparison.
Sent from my HTC 10 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Camera review
A few things that occur to me with any cam comparison is what the photographers knowledge/skill is and, as mentioned above, what settings were used. Those things affect the final output of the camera. I try to determine if their knowledge/skill is similar to mine. Then I can determine if I could have possibly gotten a better picture or not in a similar situation.
Try to find comparison photos on the web from the cameras you want to compare. Make sure they're not altered and that you know what settings were used. Each phone has it's own signature on the picture and you may prefer a certain phone's "photo look" over another. Some phones are good in some conditions, some are better in others. Some are good overall, but not great in any one area. Determine what matters to you most.
Beyond the actual photo quality, there's the user experience that must also be considered. Focus speed, shutter responsiveness, app ease-of-use...that all makes a difference.
Iphone has better cameras. I'm ashamed of my 23megapixel camera
Verstuurd vanaf mijn F8331 met Tapatalk
With phones starting to ship now I figured I'd get the ball rolling with a camera discussion / Image sample thread. I'll be sure to update this post once I have the device and get some sample shots. With the not so great reviews of the camera, I think this is a great thread to discuss the camera of the Essential phone. I'm sure it's going to bring a lot of debate
I'm wondering what is the actual sensor being used for the camera. Is it one of the Sony Exmor sensors that most phones use these days? If so, which one? It seems odd to me that this had not been reported on the way it usually is with flagship phones claiming to have great cameras, like the Pixel and U11.
I feel like the 360 camera was a bad choice as a first accessory.
A super high quality normal snap-on sensor would have changed the way this phone was received.
Goronok said:
I feel like the 360 camera was a bad choice as a first accessory.
A super high quality normal snap-on sensor would have changed the way this phone was received.
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Click to collapse
The camera issues are software related.
The processing may need tweaking with real world shooting. The app has issues. I think they will sort the camera out. For me it's not a big deal since I almost always have a camera with an APS-C sensor around. I only do phone cameras in an emergency.
tech_head said:
The camera issues are software related.
The processing may need tweaking with real world shooting. The app has issues. I think they will sort the camera out. For me it's not a big deal since I almost always have a camera with an APS-C sensor around. I only do phone cameras in an emergency.
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Click to collapse
Essential is saying it's software related in PR statements. But the camera issues have been around for months and they haven't been able to fix it. Droid Life reported on it back in June: http://www.droid-life.com/2017/06/05/essential-phone-camera-sample/
I think it's likely that they are using small 1/3 sensors (in order to have no camera hump in a thin phone); they seem to been avoiding publishing any information about what the actual sensors are in the phone and their size. That would definitely explain the low light issues. No software update is going to fix that.
And there have been so many cell phones that have come out with camera issues and promises of software fixes that never materialize. At best minor improvements happen. So I would not hold my breath for Essential being able to make huge imporvements. If they could have, they would have before they started handing it out to reviewers. It's not like they couldn't go out and snap photos like the reviewers are doing and see the problems (and if they didn't do that, then that level of incompetence makes me believe even less that there will be a miracle fix).
So I think people should be prepared for this being what the camera is more or less going to be like, with maybe some minor improvements.
cb474 said:
I'm wondering what is the actual sensor being used for the camera. Is it one of the Sony Exmor sensors that most phones use these days? If so, which one? It seems odd to me that this had not been reported on the way it usually is with flagship phones claiming to have great cameras, like the Pixel and U11.
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Sony IMX258
360 camera is IMX378
Kay1000RR said:
Sony IMX258
360 camera is IMX378
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Click to collapse
Thanks. Yeah, I saw that yesterday. As I predicted, the sensor, IMX258, is a 1/3 sensor (and two years old at that). Super disappointing. This definitely explains the bad low light performance (along with EIS instead of OIS). As I said, I really doubt software updates are going to do much to improve it. Samsung has been putting larger sensors (1/2.5) in their phones for four years now. I big part of why the Pixel and U11 have good cameras are because of the 1/2.3 sensors in them. There is just no excuse for a so called "flagship" phone these days have a 1/3 sensor in it.
It seems like Essential was just overly obssessed with their perfectly flat back idea (which I don't even think looks so great, it's almost too plain) and thought they could do "magic" by combining two 1/3 sensors, one in BW mode, and somehow produce better pictures from two lower grade sensors. 2X bad information does not equal good information. Yeah, maybe they'll get a little extra detail out of the extra monochrome sensor. But it's not going to compete with a larger sensor. And it really doesn't look like they have even used the extra monochrome sensor well (while suffering the expense of severe shutter lag while the camera tries to interpolate the information from two sensors).
I'm really disappointed that they cheaped out on the camera and were overly obssessed with not having even the tiniest camera hump (which I think Samsung and Apple have proven people are totally fine with and still think their designs are great). What attracts me to the Essential phone is the large screen in a small phone size (and the titanium and ceramic are nice pluses); but I really don't give a damn about a perfectly flat back. To get the nice design with the screen I was willing to accept the lack of a 3.5 mm jack and other corners they cut on features. But they hyped the camera as being great, when they knew they had inferior sensors in it. If they can't get the things they do have in the phone right, it's hard for me to still want to get this phone (or trust this company).
cb474 said:
Thanks. Yeah, I saw that yesterday. As I predicted, the sensor, IMX258, is a 1/3 sensor (and two years old at that). Super disappointing. This definitely explains the bad low light performance (along with EIS instead of OIS). As I said, I really doubt software updates are going to do much to improve it. Samsung has been putting larger sensors (1/2.5) in their phones for four years now. I big part of why the Pixel and U11 have good cameras are because of the 1/2.3 sensors in them. There is just no excuse for a so called "flagship" phone these days have a 1/3 sensor in it.
It seems like Essential was just overly obssessed with their perfectly flat back idea (which I don't even think looks so great, it's almost too plain) and thought they could do "magic" by combining two 1/3 sensors, one in BW mode, and somehow produce better pictures from two lower grade sensors. 2X bad information does not equal good information. Yeah, maybe they'll get a little extra detail out of the extra monochrome sensor. But it's not going to compete with a larger sensor. And it really doesn't look like they have even used the extra monochrome sensor well (while suffering the expense of severe shutter lag while the camera tries to interpolate the information from two sensors).
I'm really disappointed that they cheaped out on the camera and were overly obssessed with not having even the tiniest camera hump (which I think Samsung and Apple have proven people are totally fine with and still think their designs are great). What attracts me to the Essential phone is the large screen in a small phone size (and the titanium and ceramic are nice pluses); but I really don't give a damn about a perfectly flat back. To get the nice design with the screen I was willing to accept the lack of a 3.5 mm jack and other corners they cut on features. But they hyped the camera as being great, when they knew they had inferior sensors in it. If they can't get the things they do have in the phone right, it's hard for me to still want to get this phone (or trust this company).
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Click to collapse
You are are neglecting to factor in the increase in pixel density of the larger sensors.
The 258 has an area of 4.84mm^2 the 318 has an area of 5.24 mm^2 this is a 8% increase in area but a 60% increase in pixel.
With the pixels smaller the light collection ability and noise performance is not necessarily better.
The 318 is the newest mobile sensor that Sony has and it has 1um pixels.
They claim no drop in low light performance and noise from their 1.12um pixel sensors.
Mind you , they do not claim an increase in low light performance or noise,
So I'm not ready to dismiss the camera yet.
I'm not quite ready to dismiss it either. While the LG G6 may not win any awards for its main camera, it is definitely serviceable. Technically, the essential phone should take better snaps with the monochrome sensor combo too.
The Google camera port should help sweeten things too. I dunno, we'll see.
Goronok said:
I'm not quite ready to dismiss it either. While the LG G6 may not win any awards for its main camera, it is definitely serviceable. Technically, the essential phone should take better snaps with the monochrome sensor combo too.
The Google camera port should help sweeten things too. I dunno, we'll see.
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Google camera is a port? Not just an app? Will it take advantage of both sensors?
km8j said:
Google camera is a port? Not just an app? Will it take advantage of both sensors?
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A developer ported the Pixel version of the app with its special SW processing. So it's not really the Google camera but the Pixel camera app. I asked Michael Fisher if he tried the Pixel cam port and if it made a difference and he heard it does improve the camera but he hasn't tried it himself.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
It also might help even more once we get Root as there is adb command to do that allows the Google HDR+ camera to use the hardware imaging processor in the qualcomn chips to work with it. Will be trying this as soon as I can.
IM0001 said:
It also might help even more once we get Root as there is adb command to do that allows the Google HDR+ camera to use the hardware imaging processor in the qualcomn chips to work with it. Will be trying this as soon as I can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interested in seeing this.
tech_head said:
You are are neglecting to factor in the increase in pixel density of the larger sensors.
The 258 has an area of 4.84mm^2 the 318 has an area of 5.24 mm^2 this is a 8% increase in area but a 60% increase in pixel.
With the pixels smaller the light collection ability and noise performance is not necessarily better.
The 318 is the newest mobile sensor that Sony has and it has 1um pixels.
They claim no drop in low light performance and noise from their 1.12um pixel sensors.
Mind you , they do not claim an increase in low light performance or noise,
So I'm not ready to dismiss the camera yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh?
The 1/2.3 sensor in the phones I was mentioning is something like the IMX378 (in the Pixel). The IMX318 is not in any of the phones I was talking about. The IMX378 in the Pixel and and the sensor in the U11 (IMX362) are physically larger and have larger pixels, 1.55 um and 1.4 um respectively. Or also something like the IMX333 in the S8. That's why they do exactly what I said which is capture more light, rather than mindlessly chase higher megapixel counts.
The IMX318 is just a megapixel chasing sensor (22.5 MP), which is probably why it's only in more gimmicky phones, like the Zenfone and the Mi Note 2. Anyway, it has absolutely zero to do with any of the phones or types of sensors I was talking about. I have no idea why you brought it up.
km8j said:
Google camera is a port? Not just an app? Will it take advantage of both sensors?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's both. Someone ported over the pixel HDR+ processing to work on most snapdragon 820/821/835 devices.
Really works quite well, although no, I don't think it will utilize the B&W sensor.
cb474 said:
Huh?
The 1/2.3 sensor in the phones I was mentioning is something like the IMX378 (in the Pixel). The IMX318 is not in any of the phones I was talking about. The IMX378 in the Pixel and and the sensor in the U11 (IMX362) are physically larger and have larger pixels, 1.55 um and 1.4 um respectively. Or also something like the IMX333 in the S8. That's why they do exactly what I said which is capture more light, rather than mindlessly chase higher megapixel counts.
The IMX318 is just a megapixel chasing sensor (22.5 MP), which is probably why it's only in more gimmicky phones, like the Zenfone and the Mi Note 2. Anyway, it has absolutely zero to do with any of the phones or types of sensors I was talking about. I have no idea why you brought it up.
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Click to collapse
Okay, you are right about the 318.
The other sensors, Sony promotes a for cameras and they do not promote mobile. At least officially.
Essential made a design decision not to have a camera bump and also what would fit in the package.
Design is all about trade-offs. I've seen the pics of how full the thing is. Maybe one of the others just wouldn't fit? I don't know. I do know that if the bezels were larger I wouldn't be interested. If it were thicker, same thing.
I love the design of this phone but ya it does have tradeoffs for sure. Camera is one of them. They could have easily made the bottom bezel match the top like the S8 and put in a larger sensor for sure but decision was made to go for the super wow factor which is not necessarily a bad one in my eyes. That being said idk if i personally can "Downgrade" from the pixels camera...
tech_head said:
Okay, you are right about the 318.
The other sensors, Sony promotes a for cameras and they do not promote mobile. At least officially.
Essential made a design decision not to have a camera bump and also what would fit in the package.
Design is all about trade-offs. I've seen the pics of how full the thing is. Maybe one of the others just wouldn't fit? I don't know. I do know that if the bezels were larger I wouldn't be interested. If it were thicker, same thing.
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Whatever those sensors were originally intended for, they have been used in the best phone cameras for some time now. Samsung started using sensors like that in 2013 and Nokia, really the inventor of the modern high quality phone camera, started doing it in 2007. So Essential knew what they were doing (or not doing as the case may be).
I agree that there are trade offs with design. But Essential didn't say: in order to have a perfectly flat back we decided not to use the state of the art sensors found in other top phone cameras and do something that we think is good enough for standard users. Instead they went out of their way to promote the camera as what would be one of the stand out features of the phone. The even specifically hyped how great it's low light peformance would be. But anyone who knew the sensors they were using (without OIS) could have predicted it would not be as good as they claimed. In fact, the Xiaomi Mi 5s Plus tried the exact same configuration a year before, two IMX258 sensors, one RGB the other Monochrome, with no OIS, and that camera had the exact same performance problems. So no one can say with a straight face that they didn't know what would happen.
Not only am I disappointed in the substandard performance of the camera in the Essential Phone (for a contemporary flagship), but I think Essential was totally dishonest in how they promoted this phone and apparently thought their stupid customers and reviewers wouldn't notice. Which also contradicts their claim they would be a different kind of consumer friendly company. To me, the whole clearly dishonest camera hyping episode reveals that Essential is a very different, not so nice, kind of company than they claimed and it makes me very skeptical of their claims about everything else in the phone and that they plan to do.
So I think the way things unfolded is a little different than simply Essential decided to make a design trade off.
Also, Essential has made an awful lot of design trade offs. No 3.5 mm jack. No stereo speakers. No water proofing. No sd card. And now a subpar camera. At some point it's not worth it. I was willing to live with those other things, even though I was not excited about them (especially the 3.5 mm jack). But at least the features that are there should live up to the quality the phone claims to have and the camera just does not come close.
Lastly, I really don't get it, the obsession with the perfectly flat back. The great thing about the Esssential design is the front; it's the bezeless screen and fitting a relatively large screen in a phone much smaller than usual. Secondarly the titanium and ceramic are nice touches. But who gives sh.. about the perfectly flat back? Seriously. I don't think this would have affected anyone's perception of the phone. It would have taken a very minor hump to get an IMX378 in there and without the two sensors taking up more space, they could have had OIS. It also would have fit the Essential branding. They could have said: "We are not jumping on the dual camera gimmick band wagon (since dual cameras pretty much are a gimmick, all the different ways it's done). Large sensors and OIS are what makes cameras good. So that's what we're doing. Just the 'essential' things."
In the end, the flat back just seems like a misguided obsession of Rubin himself in his desire to make his fantasy personal perfect phone.
Sounds like the phone isn't for you lol. Quite the post.
jerflash said:
I love the design of this phone but ya it does have tradeoffs for sure. Camera is one of them. They could have easily made the bottom bezel match the top like the S8 and put in a larger sensor for sure but decision was made to go for the super wow factor which is not necessarily a bad one in my eyes. That being said idk if i personally can "Downgrade" from the pixels camera...
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Click to collapse
I doubt the design was by essential alone and instead their design choice limited by the display provided by Sharp who just released a similar phone.
https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.
Lawliet918 said:
https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.
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Click to collapse
Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony.
Apple paid Dxomark= dxomark 96 points
Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life. Truth is I cant expect from camera big as fingernail to catch photos like pro digital camera. Also every model with only one main camera will fail this test. Still I am happy with xzp camera for taking pictures, even the front camera is finally good for selfies.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4XtNwH
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4AWDDW
Also we should wait for xz1 review, maybe they did some update on img processing...
Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
smitrovic said:
Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life.
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Yeah, I'm not sure why this is even part of the test. If there is no actual optical zoom, what are they really testing? I see people zoom in on their smartphone cameras all the time and I wonder what the point is. Just crop the photo later. You get a better picture, and the "zoom" is effectively the same.
It's really sad and bit disappointing. I think most of the stuff they were saying true.
Couldn't care less. I didn't buy this phone for it's camera
Come on Sony... 83
Come on Sony'
I bought the XZ Premium because I already own Sony cameras. Sony is obviously the leader in sensor technology and by teaming up with Zeiss there should be no questions about the hardware. So... That only leaves one thing. Software! Apple uses Sony Sensors. Samsung likewise. Even Huawei. So we know their sensors are no better, it must be the software. Please Sony, get off your arrogant asses and give us something that's competitive. I know this 83 could be brought up to 93 if you can just give us a new update and a little software support.
I guess that wont happen ever, because Sony needs to save digital camera market tho. If they made this camera use all potential, they wont sell any 200-400 euro digital cameras.
Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
The initial purporpose of dxomark is to diminish any phone that lacks a second lens for bokeh and zoom and from the other side to favor the phones that have it. So i cannot take this test into consideration because it lacks any professionalism and puts double standards.
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use other camera apps, just not the free versions. If you can handle a couple of euros for Camera Zoom FX you will find that the camera is not as you describe it!!! By any chance have you unlocked your bootloader? I'm sure you know that currently there is no way to backup your TA partition wich means the loss of your DRM unique key which enables camera features, and more.
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets
Katsigaros said:
Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.
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Wasn't really my point was it. You can go buy a year old S7 or LG G6 and shoot in manual mode or in auto mode and smash the Sony out of the water.
And if you want a more stock android experience buy a Moto G5 Plus and that also beats the Sony.
The reason I know is because i have them. The way the sony was sold with improved lens, better low light due to bigger pixel size and hybrid auto focus this was supposed to be a beast of a camera. Which it isn't, not even close.
---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------
WildBit said:
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets
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Lets hope so, I am a huge Sony fan and want them to succeeded. I've had all the xperia's since the z3 compact. I just want a camera experience which is as good as the rest of the software and hardware.
This new DXO formula is idiotic... It gives adventages to dualcam phones.
whats the point of doing bokkeh test if there is actually no bokkeh...It should be a feature, it should not affect the score, because many other phones have their own features which are not measured by DXO tests.
for example. XZP has no bokkeh, but it has wider lens, which is a big advantage for me, but there are no additional point for that in the test.
Beside that, DXO tests started to be incomparable.
Look at Iphone 8 review and XZP review. I8 review is 10x more complex - it contains way more tests than XZP review.
There are also inconsistencies like:
At the first paragraph, in the "Test Summary" section they wrote, quote:
"the XZ Premium features relatively strong autofocus performance for both photography and video, as well as very good stabilization for video."
But at the end, in the "Conclusion" section they wrote, quote:
"Video performance is also competent, but marred by problems with loss of detail and mediocre stabilization."
it is really pathetic and not professional.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?
gengi said:
Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?
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Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light
jms.flynn said:
Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light
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960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk
gengi said:
960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk
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I know in certain lighting conditions it causes alot of flicker. I thought at night it would flicker but it doesnt so thats really cool. Nice video by the way.
Its like alot of people say though, as soon as Samsung or Apple do something new everyone in the world is like wow look at this. Then Sony does it and everyone is quiet about it. Our device the XZ Premium is the first to have a 4K HDR screen and is also the only device alongside the XZS and XZ1 to record at 960fps. Nobody in the world understands how cool it is to have those two features in the palm of your hand. If Samsung or Apple did it then im sure they would understand. As soon as another company besides Apple or Samsung do something cool they get criticised by their 'big bezels' which shouldnt even matter when you take into consideration the features packed into the device.
The score given for our device, I dont think its fair. If you want something fair watch a YouTube video on a comparison or review of the camera, im sure they will be more on point and accurate.
I didnt buy the phone for its camera. If someone wants to say they have an iPhone 8 with a higher score than my XZ Premium they can but I believe the scores are biased and that the rest of their scores are one-sided.
Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.
chefnoob said:
Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.
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I think everyone knows already that the Pixel has a better camera.
Alright guys XZ it is thanks for everyone responded to me and shared his opinion/experience
For know please let me know if there are any known/common issues that maybe some units has to avoid especially since I am probably getting a "used XZ" :good:
For example I remember for Z5 many units had blurry left side in picture taken by rear camera, also screen bleeding, dead pixels ect..
I'm Z5 user looking to upgrade
Do you guys recommend this phone now considering other competitors
Ofc I'm a sony fan I like their desing, audio/display features, waterproofing ect..
But I'm concerned about the camera I've seen few camera comparisons especially this one it seems that Sony is still struggling with low light and still use same old pictures post processing without forget the weird dimensions distortions
Other alternatives I'm considering that I can get for about same XZ price tag in order
- Google Pixel (camera is DSLR level in my opinion/also better specs - not sure about the mic/audio issues though)
- LG G6 (better camera/specs)
- Galaxy S7
- Oneplus 3T(better specs)
Also another factor let's not forget that the XZs and XZP were already out, also XZ1 recently so at the best cases sony will still support XZ for next year/year and half
Also please let know if there are other things I'm might not be aware of that I should know
korom42 said:
I'm Z5 user looking to upgrade
Do you guys recommend this phone now considering other competitors
Ofc I'm a sony fan I like their desing, audio/display features, waterproofing ect..
But I'm concerned about the camera I've seen few camera comparisons especially this one it seems that Sony is still struggling with low light and still use same old pictures post processing without forget the weird dimensions distortions
Other alternatives I'm considering that I can get for about same XZ price tag in order
- Google Pixel (camera is DSLR level in my opinion/also better specs - not sure about the mic/audio issues though)
- LG G6 (better camera/specs)
- Galaxy S7
- Oneplus 3T(better specs)
Also another factor let's not forget that the XZs and XZP were already out, also XZ1 recently so at the best cases sony will still support XZ for next year/year and half
Also please let know if there are other things I'm might not be aware of that I should know
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I don't know about google pixel ,but the camera of xz i notice by myself is superior by the others. Lg g6 have worst camera than g5, in more moments is worst than midrange. But on wide angle cameras panoramas is good. Of course on wideangle distortion can became in some situation very visible (the distortion on sonyies are for wideangle lens but there are not that visible). But xz destroys g6 on camera...day and night photos. Galaxy s7 produces false photos. The photos on his amoled screen seems great but on reality have more defect. Too filters applied. Yellow and reddish photos .. For example a summer photo of a lake , became autumn photo of lake,thanks to samsung filters. On night photos is easy to shoot with this device but with some burned dettails. Xz on day destroys s7, on night depends . Xz produces more dettailed photos than s7. But s7 have ois and some photos on night are easier to shoot. One plus 3t have a mid range camera ....is a phone studied for modding expecially. Talking about xz i think is the most stable phone in my opinion ...probably op3t is on similar level. I reccomand xz expecially for stability and less problems. I have some friends with s7 and g6 and they have a lot of problems . For alternative to xz i reccomand op3t if you find one. Is the one with less problems like xz. Xz use great the snapdragon 820. 821 is the same processor with only better energy use. But sony,thanks to his great optimizzation, make tha 820 less battery drainer, like 821. Every month Sony release security patches there, before of most OEM. Device have very good performance and very good battery. Signal is great there, one of better phones to have best signal (i think better than your alternatieves). Modding is good there but not one of best(but it seems grow). Ram seems doesn't have any problems .Phone is rock stable and very fluid . Sony optimizzation is the best in my opinion. It doesn't have raw ...but post processing is very natural. Raw seems enable only on aosp roms. If you doesn't worry about modding, give a look on xzs. More ram,loops ui, xzp and xz1 camera with all great new features. But no modding. If you want, give me all questions about xz. I'm very happy with my xz.
Hi,
Also consider screen size.. the XZ is rather small compare to G6, OP3t.
Then it's also Amoled vs LCD but maybe more personal?
The only thing I'm not really happy with mine is battery life, was used to more for a Sony phone, you have to tinker around to get something acceptable. Also would have prefer an Amoled screen since I read a lot so once again better for battery
Personally I would pass on the G6, XDA thread seems empty and LG support bad..
Pixel camera would be the best I guess, but you loose waterproofing.
Then it's Sony over Samsung for me for the "media" experience, sound, ldac bT etc
Also camera is actually really good. Auto is OK+ but manual gives really good shot when you know what you do.
Sony need manual settings to take good pic in low light. XZ have the best display in the market now. Super bright red and clear white. Other colors are naturals and clear. Its no juicy like Amoled or washed like other TFTs. I had G5 with screen burn problem. It have too many phones G5 and V10 with this problem. I dont know for G6 but look at it. Pixel have no IP 68 and its no interesting for me.
One Plus - no thanks. So so tricky warranty service.
S7 is stupid. I feel it in hand like a soap. And Samy dont cover under warranty water damages. I have frend in official Samy service here in Bulgaria and he told me that IP 68 nevermind. Its nothing for Samy. Just commercials.
For me thats a 100% not recommended, looking at the alternatives you posted above; go for the pixel without hesitation. I've used both, the XZ is inferior in almost every aspect except for waterproofing.
Dont get me started on overheating and battery issues, i just came back from a hot area where the phone was almost unusable just because i was standing in the sun for a little bit; once the phone temperature hits 42, forget about being productive anymore, for me this disadvantage is bigger than all the advantages above (even if it had the best camera, screen, speakers etc...) since i cant actually use the phone.
Just get the forest blue XZ, and forget the others.
I running stock on mine, unmodified, September security patch and battery life is very excellent, no overheating.
And I have to agree Sony optimisation is exceptional, I run my phone once for 20 straight days without reboot or slow down, the phone was still smooth.
korom42 said:
Alright guys XZ it is thanks for everyone responded to me and shared his opinion/experience
For know please let me know if there are any known/common issues that maybe some units has to avoid especially since I am probably getting a "used XZ" :good:
For example I remember for Z5 many units had blurry left side in picture taken by rear camera, also screen bleeding, dead pixels ect..
I'm Z5 user looking to upgrade
Do you guys recommend this phone now considering other competitors
Ofc I'm a sony fan I like their desing, audio/display features, waterproofing ect..
But I'm concerned about the camera I've seen few camera comparisons especially this one it seems that Sony is still struggling with low light and still use same old pictures post processing without forget the weird dimensions distortions
Other alternatives I'm considering that I can get for about same XZ price tag in order
- Google Pixel (camera is DSLR level in my opinion/also better specs - not sure about the mic/audio issues though)
- LG G6 (better camera/specs)
- Galaxy S7
- Oneplus 3T(better specs)
Also another factor let's not forget that the XZs and XZP were already out, also XZ1 recently so at the best cases sony will still support XZ for next year/year and half
Also please let know if there are other things I'm might not be aware of that I should know
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Click to collapse
IF you're not chasing for glamour and high end phones these days..e.g. pixel phones, Lg g6, etc.. then XZ still worth to buy. ...Otherwise if you're looking forward for OnePlus, i suggest go for OP 5 instead of OP 3T. Imho
*OnePlus, Pixel phones=Dev enthusiasts+Custom ROMs friendly
ive seen camera specs both are 19 MP (f/2.0, 25mm, 1/2.3") so how come XZ2 has better quality?
ive seen a video comparison in low light, its not that the XZP is a lot worse or bad at all, but xz2 does seem to have a brighter video, more realistic with the light it captures through, plus when the guy zoomed in to the max the xz2 could maintain a lil more details, which is weird because both phones have the same camera...
Is sony planning on releasing a similar camera algorithms in the next update?
if not, is it possible to make our XZP camera look just as good as the XZ2? Since they both have the same camera.
madshark2009 said:
ive seen camera specs both are 19 MP (f/2.0, 25mm, 1/2.3") so how come XZ2 has better quality?
ive seen a video comparison in low light, its not that the XZP is a lot worse or bad at all, but xz2 does seem to have a brighter video, more realistic with the light it captures through, plus when the guy zoomed in to the max the xz2 could maintain a lil more details, which is weird because both phones have the same camera...
Is sony planning on releasing a similar camera algorithms in the next update?
if not, is it possible to make our XZP camera look just as good as the XZ2? Since they both have the same camera.
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The camera hardware is identical, the software isn't. Sony tuned the processing and algorythms a lot, the image quality difference in general is noticable, and in low light it's massive. Both still and video.
You can have the XZ2 camera app on the XZP, but you have to root it.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/xz-premium/themes/camera-app-xz2-2-1-0-31-t3770138
I doubt Sony will update the XZ lineup with the new camera software, at least not soon, because they need to sell the XZ2 lineup, and the camera is a great selling point, if not the only one, compared to now a lot cheaper and still brilliant XZ1/XZP. Maybe we see some improvements in 8.1 or Android P, but I highly doubt it.
I was always amazed how rarily a company such as Sony updates the actual camera app on their phones, you'd think it would be a major focus feature.
I understand that it's not only the actual .apk that's different, probably some drivers as well and what not, but if the main hardware (and most of the surrounding hardware) is the same or similar, it shouldn't be a difficult thing to upgrade older devices.
I've asked Sony about this,still no answer. In the same mail I also asked them how come there is no option to lower the framerate of the slowmo video down from the 960FPS so that you could take longer slowmo videos. 960FPS is really cool, but almost unusable, let's face it, unless you plan the shot for half a day and everything is just perfect and still you won't get it the first time arround.
Not only has the same camera, but I'm pretty sure that the idiots from qualcomm just renamed the CPU flag as snapdragon 845 and enabled 4k60fps in drivers, which Sd835 is very capabile of. Also has 400 MHz more speed, bleah!