Database Info

Has lack of 3rd party "official roms" changed much?

So generally speaking I've always stuck to sister phones of nexus devices. My Samsung Captivate was sorta the "nexus with an SD card" in terms of being identical to the Nexus S, the LG Optimus G was "4g + SD Card Nexus" and I never really had any problems running roms with the latest version of Android. Running nightlys and experimental software wasn't such a big deal because it allowed me to keep my phone up to date long after it would have been updated otherwise.
The general lack of desire to stand behind the stability of a particular version coupled with a general lack of "stable" releases kinda has me jaded when I can just keep rolling with the newest version of Android officially.
It has made me wonder if there are any "stable rolling release" versions of roms? Like "here is the stable rolling release, once a week we push the latest stable versions and features from our nightles over the last month!" Letting those who want to try the newest upgrades immediately have nightly and letting people who want the latest version of android with more tweaks get the version that suits them the most?
Edit: I'm not really asking for specific ROM recommendations so much as ROM trends in general.

Many AOSP roms do this.. We can't recommend Roma to you because those comparisons are against the rules but the ROM I use (slim) has weekly builds and then a monthly stable.
The stable has a code freeze a while before release to extend testing to ensure it is stable but the weeklies are stable too.
The devs also post personal test builds in between the weeklies for those who want to test particular new functions.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

rootSU said:
Many AOSP roms do this.. We can't recommend Roma to you because those comparisons are against the rules but the ROM I use (slim) has weekly builds and then a monthly stable.
The stable has a code freeze a while before release to extend testing to ensure it is stable but the weeklies are stable too.
The devs also post personal test builds in between the weeklies for those who want to test particular new functions.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My mistake I should have phrased the original thread more carefully and I'll edit it after this.
I was more looking at general ROM trends as opposed to looking for a specific ROM.

Many AOSP roms do this
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Snow_fox said:
So generally speaking I've always stuck to sister phones of nexus devices. My Samsung Captivate was sorta the "nexus with an SD card" in terms of being identical to the Nexus S, the LG Optimus G was "4g + SD Card Nexus" and I never really had any problems running roms with the latest version of Android. Running nightlys and experimental software wasn't such a big deal because it allowed me to keep my phone up to date long after it would have been updated otherwise.
The general lack of desire to stand behind the stability of a particular version coupled with a general lack of "stable" releases kinda has me jaded when I can just keep rolling with the newest version of Android officially.
It has made me wonder if there are any "stable rolling release" versions of roms? Like "here is the stable rolling release, once a week we push the latest stable versions and features from our nightles over the last month!" Letting those who want to try the newest upgrades immediately have nightly and letting people who want the latest version of android with more tweaks get the version that suits them the most?
Edit: I'm not really asking for specific ROM recommendations so much as ROM trends in general.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your "sister" phones in reality have nothing to do with the nexus, and are not similar. the only similarities they have is using the same kind of cpu, but tweaked completely differently. maybe the same screens as well. all the other internals are completely different. completely different as in your "sister" phones are nothing like their nexus counterparts. so unlike nexus, that i would never call them a "sister" phone.
and there are many completely stable aosp roms out there for the n5.

I really don't see a point in releasing "Stable Releases" with a nexus device. With a Nexus device, the whole source is there for developers and the device is fully unlocked. So most likely, if a dev knows what they are doing, there shouldn't be very many bugs, if any at all. It would be mainly feature additions and whatever else the dev wants to add.
Now with Non Nexus devices, it's a little harder to get EVERYTHING working since the devices are usually locked down and all. So "Stable releases" are kind of a bigger deal.
That's my view on it anyway.

the thing about android is that someone somewhere is finding something new everyday, and waiting around for the release of monthly releases of roms kinda puts the users off("ohh active notifications!" "wow heads up notification" "can i get the <insert fancy OEM specific feature here> in my device?"). I for one, coming from an XMP which had rom's being updated once every two week found it hard in the N5 community where the nightlies where more common.
The thing is you have to keep changing fast and there is always room for improvement so there can never be a "stable" version just short term triumphs.

The thing is, there isn't much need for "stable" builds anymore, the nightlies for most ROMs are really stable and daily driver capable (of course sometimes something doesn't work right here and there, but generally). Some have Delta updates too so you don't need to flash the entire ROM over each nightly, kind of like daily OTAs.

jsgraphicart said:
I really don't see a point in releasing "Stable Releases" with a nexus device. With a Nexus device, the whole source is there for developers and the device is fully unlocked. So most likely, if a dev knows what they are doing, there shouldn't be very many bugs, if any at all. It would be mainly feature additions and whatever else the dev wants to add.
Now with Non Nexus devices, it's a little harder to get EVERYTHING working since the devices are usually locked down and all. So "Stable releases" are kind of a bigger deal.
That's my view on it anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Out of curiosity is the same true for the Play edition devices? With that said I was thinking about ROMs in general not ROMs specific to devices. I'd also argue (having worked QA professionally) the need to check new features added ranges drastically depending on what you want to add to the device.
gamer.11 said:
the thing about android is that someone somewhere is finding something new everyday, and waiting around for the release of monthly releases of roms kinda puts the users off("ohh active notifications!" "wow heads up notification" "can i get the <insert fancy OEM specific feature here> in my device?"). I for one, coming from an XMP which had rom's being updated once every two week found it hard in the N5 community where the nightlies where more common.
The thing is you have to keep changing fast and there is always room for improvement so there can never be a "stable" version just short term triumphs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As someone who loves new features I find the "additives" as great. I've also found just having the latest version of Android with a working stable feature set is pretty cool too.
Lethargy said:
The thing is, there isn't much need for "stable" builds anymore, the nightlies for most ROMs are really stable and daily driver capable (of course sometimes something doesn't work right here and there, but generally). Some have Delta updates too so you don't need to flash the entire ROM over each nightly, kind of like daily OTAs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I might look into the Delta Updates. There are a few things I do miss about ROMs such as being able to close all active windows and stuff. I just don't miss how some ROMs basically were just a conglomeration of shoving as much stuff into one ROM as possible regardless of how it ended up.

Snow_fox said:
Out of curiosity is the same true for the Play edition devices? With that said I was thinking about ROMs in general not ROMs specific to devices. I'd also argue (having worked QA professionally) the need to check new features added ranges drastically depending on what you want to add to the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google Play Edition devices aren't the same as Nexus devices, they just use a more "AOSP-like" ROM that doesn't have the respective OEM skin on top of it. Not sure if bootloader unlocking process is different (Nexus devices have fastboot oem unlock) but the stock ROM on them still has some parts of the OEM framework underneath (like double tap to wake and duo camera editing on HTC One M8). The Nexus 5 is more popular then Google Play Edition devices and which is why it subsequently has more developer support.

Lethargy said:
Google Play Edition devices aren't the same as Nexus devices, they just use a more "AOSP-like" ROM that doesn't have the respective OEM skin on top of it. Not sure if bootloader unlocking process is different (Nexus devices have fastboot oem unlock) but the stock ROM on them still has some parts of the OEM framework underneath (like double tap to wake and duo camera editing on HTC One M8). The Nexus 5 is more popular then Google Play Edition devices and which is why it subsequently has more developer support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This makes sense. I didn't know if the Play Edition devices still had OEM fragments or if they were as free as the Nexus series.

Heavy oem frameworks
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

To be fair, there was a pretty significant gap between 4.2 releasing on the Nexus 4 and Cyanogenmod releasing 10.2 stable. As mentioned though, many of the ROMs have released stable versions and those that haven't are still fairly stable despite not having an "official" stable release.
I will say that I'm less likely to stick with a ROM despite bugs on Nexus devices than on other devices for two main reasons. With other devices, you're often getting rid of a manufacturer skin (so it's a completely different interface, instead of just having some tweaks) or you're moving up an Android version early.

Its worth pointing out that some devs only call their last ever release "stable" when they absolutely won't add or change anything again.
I think it's too easy to get wrapped up in the terminology and not appreciate the development we have
What a stable release means to 1 dev, means something else to another.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

nearly every single ROM that I've ever used that has been titled "stable", has been less stable then the regular builds. especially with cm. a real ROM is neither called " stable" nor "experimental", its just called by its name and released. people add the word "stable" to them just to trick a few into a few more downloads.

There number of quotation marks in here is too damn high.

For good reason...
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[OFFER] FREE Razer Phone to an interested developer!

I have a spare Razer Phone I want to donate to a developer in order to boost development for this device, since Razer released Treble for it the device got my attention, but it could use a bit more development.
Current status:
Official TWRP available
Treble available
Kernel source available
Oreo developer preview available
No custom ROMs ATM, Treble ROMs have broken critical features such as in call audio and possibly more.
I'm shipping the device for FREE to anyone who:
Is a recognised developer here on XDA
Guarantees they will use the device for development (at least try) and not just sell it on eBay
Is located in the EU, because customs, exceptions possible for really great developers.
How to apply:
Leave a post in this thread with a few short words about your previous work at XDA and what would you like to do with the device, like Kernel development, ROM porting or else.
Is this serious or some kind of sad joke?
If you have doubts in me I can just say that I already shipped a device to Phh in December to help boost Treble development, and tomorrow I'm shipping a Nexus 6 to @Elektroschmock to help the Nexus 6 development stay alive as Elektro broke their N6 recently.
In case multiple devs apply for the free device I reserve the right to pick one of my personal preference, unfortunately I have only 1 spare phone for 1 dev.
@phhusson @MishaalRahman interested or know anyone who is?
To clarify, in case it was not clear, the device goes completely free to a developer, I also pay shipping inside the EU.
If customs charges occur outside the EU I would not cover those.
Shipping with tracking.
To the forum mods:
I didn't really know where to put this, I thought not many devs would see it in the Razer forums, as those are usually only frequented by people who already have a device, feel free to move the thread if you think of a better forum where it belongs.

Well not an RD here but hey tought i might try haha, so here it goes
Im part of LOS team (Currently maintaining hero family of devices (s7 and s7 edge exynos) ) Im doing a bringup of them for oreo Fixed almost all of the bugs expect for GPS after that things can go official for them so ill have to find something to play with anyway, I have experience with AOSP build system so i could at least try to get builds for Razer Phone before any mainstream roms are ready for compiling. I would also probably try to get some fun stuff to work on phone like Kali Linux NetHunter and well i would like to play with treble supported device and razer phone looks as a nice candidate as i could get some rest from exynos

Ivan_Meler said:
Well not an RD here but hey tought i might try haha, so here it goes
Im part of LOS team (Currently maintaining hero family of devices (s7 and s7 edge exynos) ) Im doing a bringup of them for oreo Fixed almost all of the bugs expect for GPS after that things can go official for them so ill have to find something to play with anyway, I have experience with AOSP build system so i could at least try to get builds for Razer Phone before any mainstream roms are ready for compiling. I would also probably try to get some fun stuff to work on phone like Kali Linux NetHunter and well i would like to play with treble supported device and razer phone looks as a nice candidate as i could get some rest from exynos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well not an RD here but hey tought i might try
Your application is welcome and noted, the RD thing was just a guideline to attract more senior devs, or how to say it.
let's give a couple of days for more devs to get the chance to express their interest and we take it from there

Hi, Diazz72 here .
Well where to start...i've joined xda about 6 years ago, stared my first project on old S4 about 4-5 years ago and continued till i've switched to G5...since it i've contributed to S7 and 6P till i switched to iPhone and soon after to S8...Well let me tell ya S8 is nightmare.
So how can i contribute if chosen...well i can bring at least two rom's to this beautiful device ( maybe R.R. and COS...Will see what crowd demands ).
If you need any more info send me a PM.
Regards, Diazz72.

Well in a nutshell, I'm the lead developer for Invictrix and previously DesolationROM. I was the first person to bring nougat to the note 4, my Werewolf kernel for the LG V20, the Nexus 5, the Nexus 7 2013, the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, and the Essential PH-1. I was also one of the early members of Substratum. Also I was the person who reverse engineered the pixel navbar to work on custom roms.
https://github.com/USA-RedDragon/AboutMe/wiki
https://github.com/USA-RedDragon
and
https://github.com/InvictrixRom paint a lot of the picture as well.

Well, of course I'm interested in the Razer Phone, though I don't think I'm the one who will give it the most love.
If I get the device, I'd test and fix all GSIs I'll make on it, like AOSP P when sources will be available (I think that if I get a Razer, it will be the first one to get P, since it's A/B and that makes things much easier)
I'd also probably try to get some hardware features to work on GSIs (like porting stock camera if that's relevant, and see what can be done with the 120Hz screen)
But I won't dive too deep, like I won't do any kernel work.
For my overall Treble testing, I think it will definitely be a great device, since I'm lacking an A/B and a Qualcomm test device, which seem to have few specificities.
Fwiw, I've reported some issues to Essential (they even answered once! https://github.com/phhusson/platfor...23ea40b255dfbba5813c29#commitcomment-28321661 ), and I plan to do this as well for Razer, since it looks like their Treble implementation isn't totally ok (though I think it passes Google certification)

phhusson said:
Well, of course I'm interested in the Razer Phone, though I don't think I'm the one who will give it the most love.
If I get the device, I'd test and fix all GSIs I'll make on it, like AOSP P when sources will be available (I think that if I get a Razer, it will be the first one to get P, since it's A/B and that makes things much easier)
I'd also probably try to get some hardware features to work on GSIs (like porting stock camera if that's relevant, and see what can be done with the 120Hz screen)
But I won't dive too deep, like I won't do any kernel work.
For my overall Treble testing, I think it will definitely be a great device, since I'm lacking an A/B and a Qualcomm test device, which seem to have few specificities.
Fwiw, I've reported some issues to Essential (they even answered once! https://github.com/phhusson/platfor...23ea40b255dfbba5813c29#commitcomment-28321661 ), and I plan to do this as well for Razer, since it looks like their Treble implementation isn't totally ok (though I think it passes Google certification)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noted
Offtopic
since it looks like their Treble implementation isn't totally ok (though I think it passes Google certification)
It's Dev Preview 1, let's see how it goes by the time it's stable, I do expect changes.
since it's A/B and that makes things much easier
I think you are the first person I ever saw post A/B and easier in the same sentence lol hahaha

Ok so from the 4 interested devs I decided for @phhusson
Why?
Because even tho he said he won't be specifically focused on this device I believe having fully working Treble ROMs is what will bring the most benefit to this device in the long term, having Treble means having already 5+ available ROMs, including LOS 15.1 and RR, and that number will just grow with time.
"like porting stock camera if that's relevant"
Don't bother, it's crap, rather port Google camera

Exelios said:
Ok so from the 4 interested devs I decided for @phhusson
Why?
Because even tho he said he won't be specifically focused on this device I believe having fully working Treble ROMs is what will bring the most benefit to this device in the long term, having Treble means having already 5+ available ROMs, including LOS 15.1 and RR, and that number will just grow with time.
"like porting stock camera if that's relevant"
Don't bother, it's crap, rather port Google camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are the real MVP.

Exelios said:
I have a spare Razer Phone I want to donate to a developer in order to boost development for this device, since Razer released Treble for it the device got my attention, but it could use a bit more development.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if anyone answered you, as I don't have time to read through. I'm interested to develop on this device, mostly for NetHunter. I'm not that active on XDA, but you can look me up on Github, Gitlab @yesimxev
Official developer of NetHunter
EDIT: Just seen the last answer. Anyway, I'm interested in future possibilities too. Thanks!

How to replace Xperia XZ Premium's ROM with a Treble ROM.

I was wondering if it's possible to replace my current official ROM with a Treble supported ROM.?
my current spec:
Android version: 8.0.0
Model: G8142
Android Security Patch Level: May 2018
I've heard that phones that come with Android Oreo preinstalled only they support Treble, but my phone had Android 7.1 originally when I first bought it so I'm not sure if it supports Treble. and it's kinda important because that means my phone can get future Android versions just like an IPhone.

HotCakeX said:
I was wondering if it's possible to replace my current official ROM with a Treble supported ROM.?
my current spec:
Android version: 8.0.0
Model: G8142
Android Security Patch Level: May 2018
I've heard that phones that come with Android Oreo preinstalled only they support Treble, but my phone had Android 7.1 originally when I first bought it so I'm not sure if it supports Treble. and it's kinda important because that means my phone can get future Android versions just like an IPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think thats the case though I mean every company releases updates to their products untill they decide not to.
for instance at sony as I recall every flagship continues to get updates for 2 years after doesnt matter if it came with oreo or nougat.
and I think that companies sell producs as they are since they first came out, for instance, when the XZP came out it had nougat which means even if you buy a year after it would still come with nougat, unless Sony made more XZP units after the oreo update was released which is highly doubtful.

madshark2009 said:
I dont think thats the case though I mean every company releases updates to their products untill they decide not to.
for instance at sony as I recall every flagship continues to get updates for 2 years after doesnt matter if it came with oreo or nougat.
and I think that companies sell producs as they are since they first came out, for instance, when the XZP came out it had nougat which means even if you buy a year after it would still come with nougat, unless Sony made more XZP units after the oreo update was released which is highly doubtful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will be treble support in the future

HotCakeX said:
I was wondering if it's possible to replace my current official ROM with a Treble supported ROM.?
my current spec:
Android version: 8.0.0
Model: G8142
Android Security Patch Level: May 2018
I've heard that phones that come with Android Oreo preinstalled only they support Treble, but my phone had Android 7.1 originally when I first bought it so I'm not sure if it supports Treble. and it's kinda important because that means my phone can get future Android versions just like an IPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well technically that is not the case, as treble project is separating the software code from the hardware code, as untill nougat once google update is released the CPU manufcature should also release an update that can work with the new google update, they rely on eachother, so for example our XZP supports snapdragon 835, when google releases an update, snapdragon has to release an update for the CPU that can understand and work with the new google update, THEN sony decides if they want to work on these update and "combine them" and release it for their XZP.
but after the treble project, this will no longer be an issue, as when google releases an update, the CPU manufacture doesnt have to release an update to work with it. the codes are now "separated", to my understanding the google update doesnt have to get a hardware update to understand it but instead it LEARNS the hardware that its sitting on and work with it as compatible without having the manufacture teach it, which means once google releases an update, Sony doesnt have to wait for snapdragon to release an update to work with it, it just work on its own, Sony just modifies it in their own ways and terms and then release it to the customers, but still it will take a lot less time, and software will always be compatible and released with time
and as I understood:
"1) If your device never gets updated to Oreo, it will never get Project Treble. No way around that. Sorry.
2) If your device does get updated to Oreo, it’s still not required to support Treble—that’s up to the manufacturer.
3) If you buy a new phone that runs Oreo out of the box, it is required to support Treble out of the box."
now looking at the 3rd option, every phone WILL and not only MIGHT support Treble.
BUT looking at 2nd option, it MIGHT, which means if sony decides so, it will,
and again, once a manufacture releases a device, it will always stay on the same android version, even if you buy it after it receives an update, out of the box our XZP will come with nougat even if you buy it in 2020 thats just how phones work once released, software stays the same out of the box. but its up to sony to decide if we get Treble support and you cant install a custom rom to get Treble because it requires root, and once you root you wont get OTA's from the manufacture, which means you wont get any updates afterwards unless you unroot which gets you back to square one.
in conclusion, its up to sony to decide wether we get Treble support or not.
and to add, even if we dont get Treble support, sony will still release updates to our XZP for the next year at least and after that its really not worth updating.
every update becomes heavier and requires more horsepower to run as smoothly as possible with the least battery consumption, after 2 years I really wouldnt want to update even if an update was available as it WILL slow my device down and consume more battery because newer updates usualy have more features and improved technology that youd have to get a new device with improved hardware to fully enjoy them without having downsides, I mean only after Oreo my battery became worse and phone became a little laggy every now and then Id have to restart, imagine after 1 or 2 more updates.
to make the idea more vivid, take your iphone example, how do you think iphone 6 handles the latest update? certainly not as smooth as before, or iphone 5s, they became so laggy compared to how they were before, and its not because they aged, they are not human beings, machines dont age, maybe battery does wear out but to get slower? thats just due to heavy software and bloat.
hope that was helpful

LukeyWolf said:
There will be treble support in the future
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really hope so.
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs

madshark2009 said:
well technically that is not the case, as treble project is separating the software code from the hardware code, as untill nougat once google update is released the CPU manufcature should also release an update that can work with the new google update, they rely on eachother, so for example our XZP supports snapdragon 835, when google releases an update, snapdragon has to release an update for the CPU that can understand and work with the new google update, THEN sony decides if they want to work on these update and "combine them" and release it for their XZP.
but after the treble project, this will no longer be an issue, as when google releases an update, the CPU manufacture doesnt have to release an update to work with it. the codes are now "separated", to my understanding the google update doesnt have to get a hardware update to understand it but instead it LEARNS the hardware that its sitting on and work with it as compatible without having the manufacture teach it, which means once google releases an update, Sony doesnt have to wait for snapdragon to release an update to work with it, it just work on its own, Sony just modifies it in their own ways and terms and then release it to the customers, but still it will take a lot less time, and software will always be compatible and released with time
and as I understood:
"1) If your device never gets updated to Oreo, it will never get Project Treble. No way around that. Sorry.
2) If your device does get updated to Oreo, it’s still not required to support Treble—that’s up to the manufacturer.
3) If you buy a new phone that runs Oreo out of the box, it is required to support Treble out of the box."
now looking at the 3rd option, every phone WILL and not only MIGHT support Treble.
BUT looking at 2nd option, it MIGHT, which means if sony decides so, it will,
and again, once a manufacture releases a device, it will always stay on the same android version, even if you buy it after it receives an update, out of the box our XZP will come with nougat even if you buy it in 2020 thats just how phones work once released, software stays the same out of the box. but its up to sony to decide if we get Treble support and you cant install a custom rom to get Treble because it requires root, and once you root you wont get OTA's from the manufacture, which means you wont get any updates afterwards unless you unroot which gets you back to square one.
in conclusion, its up to sony to decide wether we get Treble support or not.
and to add, even if we dont get Treble support, sony will still release updates to our XZP for the next year at least and after that its really not worth updating.
every update becomes heavier and requires more horsepower to run as smoothly as possible with the least battery consumption, after 2 years I really wouldnt want to update even if an update was available as it WILL slow my device down and consume more battery because newer updates usualy have more features and improved technology that youd have to get a new device with improved hardware to fully enjoy them without having downsides, I mean only after Oreo my battery became worse and phone became a little laggy every now and then Id have to restart, imagine after 1 or 2 more updates.
to make the idea more vivid, take your iphone example, how do you think iphone 6 handles the latest update? certainly not as smooth as before, or iphone 5s, they became so laggy compared to how they were before, and its not because they aged, they are not human beings, machines dont age, maybe battery does wear out but to get slower? thats just due to heavy software and bloat.
hope that was helpful
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the explanation, It was great.
Though I kinda disagree with the last part. for example I have a friend who had Android 7.1 on his galaxy S3, and it was running fine, empty from bloatware.
and the whole idea of making custom ROMs like Cyanogen and forums like XDA is build on that, to give Android phones a new life once the actual developers stop doing so.
Android definitely Should follow the path of Apple and Microsoft with Windows 10.
I have a Vaio Sony Laptop from 2010 and when I first got that it had a Windows home 7 on it, but now it has Windows 10 Pro x64 Redstone 4 and with the way Windows 10 works I'm sure I'll get future Redstone updates too, because these updates don't break anything and I get all the required drivers through the Windows update itself.
So the point is, Android phones specially the flag ships have the potential to be updated just like Apple IPhone products, and Treble is a great step towards this goal.
Yes phone batteries do get wear out that's why we should change their batteries every few years.
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs

HotCakeX said:
Thank you for the explanation, It was great.
Though I kinda disagree with the last part. for example I have a friend who had Android 7.1 on his galaxy S3, and it was running fine, empty from bloatware.
and the whole idea of making custom ROMs like Cyanogen and forums like XDA is build on that, to give Android phones a new life once the actual developers stop doing so.
Android definitely Should follow the path of Apple and Microsoft with Windows 10.
I have a Vaio Sony Laptop from 2010 and when I first got that it had a Windows home 7 on it, but now it has Windows 10 Pro x64 Redstone 4 and with the way Windows 10 works I'm sure I'll get future Redstone updates too, because these updates don't break anything and I get all the required drivers through the Windows update itself.
So the point is, Android phones specially the flag ships have the potential to be updated just like Apple IPhone products, and Treble is a great step towards this goal.
Yes phone batteries do get wear out that's why we should change their batteries every few years.
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cant compare custom roms to official OTA. because devs of the roms tend to clean the rom as much as possible from un-needed bloat therefor making it super fast and consumes less battery.
for instance, my brother has a galaxy s5 with 6.0.1 on it, I rooted the phone for him, and installed a custom 8.0 rom and it became laggy (still accepted lag not too much) but it was more laggy and crashes more, so I though maybe the rom is bad so I tried another 8.0 same happened.
in conclusion: even custom roms lag (although a lot less than official OTA) but it takes a lot of work for the devs to get rid of extra bloat for the old device to run smoothly. and sometimes even after getting rid of every last bloat it may still cause slowness of the device.
AOSP roms tend to be really easy on the device, so yes even if I had a Z2 I would install android 10.0 on it if it was AOSP because, well, aosp is friendly to old devices (in my own experience).
again thats just my personal opinion, yes your friend's phone has a 7.1.1 on a galaxy 3 but its custom and debloated so you cant compare that to official FW release from samsung
AND true that your friend sees the device as quick and smooth, but tell him to get back to 6.0 or even 5.1 and it will be even faster and consumes less battery.
but again it depends on how he uses the device, some people may tolerate the heavy software and might not even notice a difference in performance, but if you are heavy user like me, heavy gamer and multi task a lot, thats when the software unleashes its true potentials, so for normal easy use its ok but in heavy use, you will notice huge differences.
and to your example, windows updates, they have differet versions of every update, there is Home, pro, ulitmate etc...
so if your PC is old and has old hardware, using windows 10 home will be quite smooth, but if it was ultimate with full functionalities it will lag like hell.
we dont have that in android, again we do have AOSP though which is very easy like a home version yet functions like an ultimate version thats why i love it

madshark2009 said:
You cant compare custom roms to official OTA. because devs of the roms tend to clean the rom as much as possible from un-needed bloat therefor making it super fast and consumes less battery.
for instance, my brother has a galaxy s5 with 6.0.1 on it, I rooted the phone for him, and installed a custom 8.0 rom and it became laggy (still accepted lag not too much) but it was more laggy and crashes more, so I though maybe the rom is bad so I tried another 8.0 same happened.
in conclusion: even custom roms lag (although a lot less than official OTA) but it takes a lot of work for the devs to get rid of extra bloat for the old device to run smoothly. and sometimes even after getting rid of every last bloat it may still cause slowness of the device.
AOSP roms tend to be really easy on the device, so yes even if I had a Z2 I would install android 10.0 on it if it was AOSP because, well, aosp is friendly to old devices (in my own experience).
again thats just my personal opinion, yes your friend's phone has a 7.1.1 on a galaxy 3 but its custom and debloated so you cant compare that to official FW release from samsung
AND true that your friend sees the device as quick and smooth, but tell him to get back to 6.0 or even 5.1 and it will be even faster and consumes less battery.
but again it depends on how he uses the device, some people may tolerate the heavy software and might not even notice a difference in performance, but if you are heavy user like me, heavy gamer and multi task a lot, thats when the software unleashes its true potentials, so for normal easy use its ok but in heavy use, you will notice huge differences.
and to your example, windows updates, they have differet versions of every update, there is Home, pro, ulitmate etc...
so if your PC is old and has old hardware, using windows 10 home will be quite smooth, but if it was ultimate with full functionalities it will lag like hell.
we dont have that in android, again we do have AOSP though which is very easy like a home version yet functions like an ultimate version thats why i love it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I know there are different versions, even though I said that my old laptop had Win 7 Home at the beginning and now it has Win 10 X64 pro RS4 currently, it's not the point here. Android should follow the same path because just like there are almost an infinite combination of computer hardware assembled in form of laptops/PCs, there are so many Android phones with different hardware into them as well. so like you said, why should every newer version of Android be heavier than the previous one? Is it not because of marketing and thus selling more Android phones?
why a Windows based Laptop/PC from 8 years ago can still run today's Operation system without any problems but an Android phone from 8 years ago can't even boot up!
I mean if Windows were like Android and would get more hungry after every update then a laptop with 4GB RAM from 2010 for example, would surely need more than 16 GB now to run the most recent Windows OS. but fortunately, it doesn't. Windows still manages to run on 4GB and always leaves 2 or 1.5 GB of RAM free for me for other tasks. not to mention that I even play Sims 4 on it ( the graphic card bottlenecks though since it wasn't a gaming laptop in the first place).
my phone has 4GB RAM and soon with newer Android versions Google/manufacturers will make it (intentionally/unintentionally) heavier so that I will need 6 or 8 GB to use my phone smoothly.
Linux fans always boast about how lightweight, updated and bug free their OS is, and while Android is built upon the same Linux platform, but it didn't Inherite any of those features.
About AOSP, I have a phone running on 3GB RAM with Android 5.1, it's not from popular brands like Samsung, Sony etc, is it possible to install Android AOSP on it? ?
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs

HotCakeX said:
Yeah I know there are different versions, even though I said that my old laptop had Win 7 Home at the beginning and now it has Win 10 X64 pro RS4 currently, it's not the point here. Android should follow the same path because just like there are almost an infinite combination of computer hardware assembled in form of laptops/PCs, there are so many Android phones with different hardware into them as well. so like you said, why should every newer version of Android be heavier than the previous one? Is it not because of marketing and thus selling more Android phones?
why a Windows based Laptop/PC from 8 years ago can still run today's Operation system without any problems but an Android phone from 8 years ago can't even boot up!
I mean if Windows were like Android and would get more hungry after every update then a laptop with 4GB RAM from 2010 for example, would surely need more than 16 GB now to run the most recent Windows OS. but fortunately, it doesn't. Windows still manages to run on 4GB and always leaves 2 or 1.5 GB of RAM free for me for other tasks. not to mention that I even play Sims 4 on it ( the graphic card bottlenecks though since it wasn't a gaming laptop in the first place).
my phone has 4GB RAM and soon with newer Android versions Google/manufacturers will make it (intentionally/unintentionally) heavier so that I will need 6 or 8 GB to use my phone smoothly.
Linux fans always boast about how lightweight, updated and bug free their OS is, and while Android is built upon the same Linux platform, but it didn't Inherite any of those features.
About AOSP, I have a phone running on 3GB RAM with Android 5.1, it's not from popular brands like Samsung, Sony etc, is it possible to install Android AOSP on it? ?
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
search its forum in xda if it exists and there should be roms forum where you can find a veriatey of aosp roms with names (carbon rom, nightlies, ressurection remix) all those are versions of aosp.
yes I agree about that I mean why would a phone need 6gb ram? or 8?? its just a way of marketing so customers think more ram means better phone etc etc (thats what I thought at first) but turns out android does require a lot which makes no sense to me especially coded with linux and unix.
but then again, todays most trendy device is a smartphone so manufactures use us and make more bloat so we'd have to buy newer phones.
as for iphone they have a better plan haha, you see yes iphone update their phones and each phone get the update no matter how old is it, but the case for iphone, they actually set limitations inside the software for previous phones which slows them down so AGAIN youd have to buy the newer iphone to re-enjoy the snappy and quick experience.
im pretty sure google will do the same even with treble support because EVERY manufacture wants us to keep buying and buying.
thats not the case in computers, because computers you can buy their parts individually, which means every piece of hardware in there has to prove it self for you to be convinced to buy it.
but in phones every single flagship for every manufacture comes with the same exact specs in terms of hardware parts (CPU, Ram size),(except camera), its the software that the devices rely on to compete.
and whats worse, SONY the best example, in their XZ2 they have the EXACT camera hardware as our XZP but it takes better pictures, why? because they improved their camera algorythms but wont release it for our device so we would have to upgrade. thats just the way it is I can talk a lot about this topoc non stop xD its just very wide and competetive
but I learned my lesson, for a 1000$ phone wether it was iphone, samsung sony its really not worth it if you think about it, its just trendy, why would people compete about how good is their camera? why would they even concider it as something to brag about? true on the device's screen these small lens cameras look great, put it on a 20" screen you will go like "WTH is this?? its crap!"
these smartphone cameras were made for instant pull and take picture, but now they all compete to become more like DSLR, but will never be as good as DSLR with that size of a lens!
so my lesson is: if you want a good camera with DSLR effect instead of buying a phone of 1000$ go buy a 200$ phone, and a 800$ DSLR camera its a lot better.
why need a 120hz display on a phone? to game? yes because its very easy to play PUBG on a small touch screen? NO its not its pointless!
so yah from now on Id buy a 200$ phone that can get the job done and play games that are playable on a small screen, as for camera and gaming I have a gaming PC and a DSLR there is really no need to pack that into a device that can include all features but will NEVER actually meet our expectations its all about the TREND

madshark2009 said:
search its forum in xda if it exists and there should be roms forum where you can find a veriatey of aosp roms with names (carbon rom, nightlies, ressurection remix) all those are versions of aosp.
yes I agree about that I mean why would a phone need 6gb ram? or 8?? its just a way of marketing so customers think more ram means better phone etc etc (thats what I thought at first) but turns out android does require a lot which makes no sense to me especially coded with linux and unix.
but then again, todays most trendy device is a smartphone so manufactures use us and make more bloat so we'd have to buy newer phones.
as for iphone they have a better plan haha, you see yes iphone update their phones and each phone get the update no matter how old is it, but the case for iphone, they actually set limitations inside the software for previous phones which slows them down so AGAIN youd have to buy the newer iphone to re-enjoy the snappy and quick experience.
im pretty sure google will do the same even with treble support because EVERY manufacture wants us to keep buying and buying.
thats not the case in computers, because computers you can buy their parts individually, which means every piece of hardware in there has to prove it self for you to be convinced to buy it.
but in phones every single flagship for every manufacture comes with the same exact specs in terms of hardware parts (CPU, Ram size),(except camera), its the software that the devices rely on to compete.
and whats worse, SONY the best example, in their XZ2 they have the EXACT camera hardware as our XZP but it takes better pictures, why? because they improved their camera algorythms but wont release it for our device so we would have to upgrade. thats just the way it is I can talk a lot about this topoc non stop xD its just very wide and competetive
but I learned my lesson, for a 1000$ phone wether it was iphone, samsung sony its really not worth it if you think about it, its just trendy, why would people compete about how good is their camera? why would they even concider it as something to brag about? true on the device's screen these small lens cameras look great, put it on a 20" screen you will go like "WTH is this?? its crap!"
these smartphone cameras were made for instant pull and take picture, but now they all compete to become more like DSLR, but will never be as good as DSLR with that size of a lens!
so my lesson is: if you want a good camera with DSLR effect instead of buying a phone of 1000$ go buy a 200$ phone, and a 800$ DSLR camera its a lot better.
why need a 120hz display on a phone? to game? yes because its very easy to play PUBG on a small touch screen? NO its not its pointless!
so yah from now on Id buy a 200$ phone that can get the job done and play games that are playable on a small screen, as for camera and gaming I have a gaming PC and a DSLR there is really no need to pack that into a device that can include all features but will NEVER actually meet our expectations its all about the TREND
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice to see you have the same view, can't agree with you more xD
It might sound like a noob question, does it matter which aosp rom I install on that phone? are those aosp roms (carbon etc) like windows ISO file to be able to install them (flash them) on every phone?
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs

HotCakeX said:
Nice to see you have the same view, can't agree with you more xD
It might sound like a noob question, does it matter which aosp rom I install on that phone? are those aosp roms (carbon etc) like windows ISO file to be able to install them (flash them) on every phone?
Sent from my Sony G8142 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no no its still based on android haha you still have to find the right one for your hardware.
so like you searched for the XZP forums just do the same for your other phone in xda find its forum and rom section, what is the phone any way?

Not Many Roms?

Hello,
my last rooted phone was the s3 many years ago. That aside, tomorrow marks the 3rd day I've had my Oneplus 8 5G. I seen a post where a guy will unlock your bootloader (which I will message him about). I was looking around to see what roms exist and it looks like there isn't many if any at all. There used to be tons for the s3. what happened? is the oneplus 8 not popular for rooting or something.

wwe9112 said:
Hello,
my last rooted phone was the s3 many years ago. That aside, tomorrow marks the 3rd day I've had my Oneplus 8 5G. I seen a post where a guy will unlock your bootloader (which I will message him about). I was looking around to see what roms exist and it looks like there isn't many if any at all. There used to be tons for the s3. what happened? is the oneplus 8 not popular for rooting or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's just the time for users to enjoy 3 years of oxygenOS update. Android 11 will come sooner for OEM, ROMs are a bit slower.
Plus it's special with OnePlus devices. We could call OOS a custom ROM with all the customizations features it offers. And trust me, it's not funny to flash a ROM on your device right away, take the time to be fed up with the UI/UX, then flash something.
To answer your question, ROMs are coming, but later. We already have unofficial LOS and official Paranoid Android (one if the best ROM out there to me). And we have a lot of kernel (proof that what we need for now isn't to modify the ROM, only maybe the kernel). But it'll sure come !

most likely after android 11 is released. currently in my opinion android 10 is quite stable.

In actuality it is because of the way that android 10 changes file systems and the ways you can interact with them. For a huge example, most phones that shipped with Android 9 or before can install twrp (if available). Phones that ship with Android 10 (and presumably 11 in the future) cannot, because for now, twrp is in a semi functional state, but many important things are broken. Like the ability to modify the system partition. Which is essential to installing a custom rom.

Upgrade Note 20 Ultra to Android 12

So I'm currently used a Note 20 ultra n985f/ds which was previously a Live demo unit but now fully functional on android 10
hI'd appreciate guidelines to upgrade to android 12? . My csc is OXM WWD... looking forward to your help
Also I'd like to know which is better, should I just change my csc so I can receive the push for update via OTA or just follow a guideline for flashing with Odin, thanks in advance

I'd do some research first. Scoped storage and forced encryption are fully active on 11 and 12, not so on 10. It will puke on trusted legacy apps.
Google blames the developers but the bottom line is nothing but trouble. Developers come and go; let's face no one's going to be a beast of burden when there's better things to do.
So far there's been more than a few who went to 12 and want out.
I have two Note 10+'s, one running on Pie, the other 10. The look and run nearly identically except the Q variant has dozens of new small Samsung system apks. Samsung went to great lengths to maintain to UI.
However it runs very well.
That said since both run well, neither will be upgraded. Pie has some advantages over Q; Q may run slightly stronger. Security is not an issue; my current load on the Pie variant will be 2 yo in June with minimal maintenance. It's still snappy and stable.
Rule #1 if an OS is fast, stable and fulfilling its mission, let it be. If the 12 upgrade will fix bad display or 5G issues on the N20U that might be justification. It could do just the opposite.
Otherwise it may turn out to be just another load of Google hogwash.
A wait and see approach would probably serve you best.

blackhawk said:
I'd do some research first. Scoped storage and forced encryption are fully active on 11 and 12, not so on 10. It will puke on trusted legacy apps.
Google blames the developers but the bottom line is nothing but trouble. Developers come and go; let's face no one's going to be a beast of burden when there's better things to do.
So far there's been more than a few who went to 12 and want out.
I have two Note 10+'s, one running on Pie, the other 10. The look and run nearly identically except the Q variant has dozens of new small Samsung system apks. Samsung went to great lengths to maintain to UI.
However it runs very well.
That said since both run well, neither will be upgraded. Pie has some advantages over Q; Q may run slightly stronger. Security is not an issue; my current load on the Pie variant will be 2 yo in June with minimal maintenance. It's still snappy and stable.
Rule #1 if an OS is fast, stable and fulfilling its mission, let it be. If the 12 upgrade will fix bad display or 5G issues on the N20U that might be justification. It could do just the opposite.
Otherwise it may turn out to be just another load of Google hogwash.
A wait and see approach would probably serve you best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your contribution and thoughts, looking forward to that of others as well

EliDevp said:
Thanks for your contribution and thoughts, looking forward to that of others as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As more upgrade to 12 you'll get the most reliable reviews on various forums. These are users that don't get perks or kickbacks.
There are too many glowing reviews for turds already...