I'm hoping that with the new USB Type-C connector and Power Delivery 2.0, someone will finally make my ideal type of DAC for phone use in the car:
USB input for powering DAC from cigarette lighter adapter (2.1A)
USB input/output for connection to Type-C jack on phone - phone sends digital audio to DAC, and phone simultaneously charges at (relatively) high power thanks to Power Delivery 2.0
3.5mm audio line out - connect to car AUX input
Currently the DACs I find that come closest to meeting this are the FiiO E18 and the Creative Labs E5, but both add a lot of expense and complexity in trying to be everything to everyone (internal battery for portable use, headphone amp with volume control, etc.). Reviews also state that using them with a phone while also charging the phone can be very touchy.
Is anyone else looking for something like this, or have ideas about where it can already be found? I'm not averse to using a portable DAC in the car, but I want the phone charging to be pretty bulletproof. :good:
I use this with my Nexus 5 and a USB OTG Host cable. I have a Nexus 6P on the way, and I'm hoping it will still work with a just a micro-USB to USB-C adapter for the Nexus 6P. It works very well now, with the downside that the phone doesn't charge when used this way . I read that that was a hardware limitation in the Nexus 5. Maybe the Nexus 6P will charge while sending USB audio, I don't know.
DAC:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036VO4X4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
USB HOST CABLE:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C452XFO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
Techno Trousers said:
snip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know of a product that matches what you described. I have the OPPO HA-2, but in terms of inputs and functionality, it's much the same as the SoundBlaster and FIIO DACs. I don't see how you can charge your phone at the same time you USB output the audio to one of these devices. Using the analog jacks defeats the purpose.
While I think the setup you described would be good, I think we are probably a year or two away from anything like it. I've noticed a trend in the audiophile world of slow adoption of new things such as USB Type-C. If the market proves me wrong, I'm OK with that! I just don't have high expectations for something like this anytime soon.
Also, I think a better alternative would be an aftermarket deck for your car with a USB input for simultaneous charging / USB audio connectivity straight to the sound system. Skip the external DAC and analog headphone jacks all together. Maybe something with Android Auto on it. Again, adoption of Type-C is probably going to be very slow in this product category, but that would be something I'd like to see!
Besides, audio always seems to limited by the weakest link in the chain. Factory car speakers are just terrible, although I'll admit they've gotten better in the last 4 or 5 years. Why go through the pains of setting up an extravagant DAC setup when the speakers won't make it sound any better? Unless you DO have better speakers, in which case, never mind.
May I ask why the 3.5mm analog out from the phone is not sufficient if your car already has an analog input? What is this buying you?
I have an old 2005 Acura TL with a kickass stereo (DVD-A), but no external inputs. I just installed a Grom Audio AND2 that gives me USB stick, Android and a 3.5mm Analog capability. Mine is running in Satellite Radio Emulation mode to give me Song, Album and Artist info in the display.
As newbie, I can not be helpful and add a link but you can Google Grom Audio and click the compare kits link.
The holy grail for me is automotive systems that will take USB or SD cards and actually have as much functionality as a free app on the play store! Most automotive entertainment system developers are so clueless, they should have their balls crushed in a vice and then be fired! The whole naming audio files "01-Artist-Album-Title" came about because automotive systems won't read metadata tags and support playlists.
Techno Trousers said:
I'm hoping that with the new USB Type-C connector and Power Delivery 2.0, someone will finally make my ideal type of DAC for phone use in the car:
USB input for powering DAC from cigarette lighter adapter (2.1A)
USB input/output for connection to Type-C jack on phone - phone sends digital audio to DAC, and phone simultaneously charges at (relatively) high power thanks to Power Delivery 2.0
3.5mm audio line out - connect to car AUX input
Currently the DACs I find that come closest to meeting this are the FiiO E18 and the Creative Labs E5, but both add a lot of expense and complexity in trying to be everything to everyone (internal battery for portable use, headphone amp with volume control, etc.). Reviews also state that using them with a phone while also charging the phone can be very touchy.
Is anyone else looking for something like this, or have ideas about where it can already be found? I'm not averse to using a portable DAC in the car, but I want the phone charging to be pretty bulletproof. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dwswager said:
May I ask why the 3.5mm analog out from the phone is not sufficient if your car already has an analog input? What is this buying you?
I have an old 2005 Acura TL with a kickass stereo (DVD-A), but no external inputs. I just installed a Grom Audio AND2 that gives me USB stick, Android and a 3.5mm Analog capability. Mine is running in Satellite Radio Emulation mode to give me Song, Album and Artist info in the display.
As newbie, I can not be helpful and add a link but you can Google Grom Audio and click the compare kits link.
The holy grail for me is automotive systems that will take USB or SD cards and actually have as much functionality as a free app on the play store! Most automotive entertainment system developers are so clueless, they should have their balls crushed in a vice and then be fired! The whole naming audio files "01-Artist-Album-Title" came about because automotive systems won't read metadata tags and support playlists.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a 05 TL in Blue with the tan interior and the GPS.
My dad got the 12 TL and the seats are not as comfortable
Sent from my Nexus 5
gwertheim said:
I have a 05 TL in Blue with the tan interior and the GPS.
My dad got the 12 TL and the seats are not as comfortable
Sent from my Nexus 5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 05 TL is also Navy Blue with British Tan leather. Now it has a Grom Audio and I am a fairly happy camper. I used to burn DVD-A discs with about 7 CDs on each and use the "Group" feature. So the 6 disc changer gave me about 42 CDs. BTW, I used Cirlinca DVD-Solo to make and burn DVD Audio Disks.
dwswager said:
My 05 TL is also Navy Blue with British Tan leather. Now it has a Grom Audio and I am a fairly happy camper. I used to burn DVD-A discs with about 7 CDs on each and use the "Group" feature. So the 6 disc changer gave me about 42 CDs. BTW, I used Cirlinca DVD-Solo to make and burn DVD Audio Disks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have the exact same car
Sent from my Nexus 5
Hi, everyone. Thanks so much for the responses, I really appreciate it. To answer some questions and hopefully clarify things:
Why do this? In my 2007 Honda Civic, I upgraded the speakers just after I bought the car (Boston Acoustics) but left the head unit alone, to get maximum sound quality bang for my buck. I currently have a Galaxy S4, and can take advantage of analog audio out via USB with a special iBolt cable (It operates very similarly to the old 30-pin iPod to analog out cables, if you can picture that).
Via experimentation, I've found that increasing order of sound quality is:
Connection from headphone output to AUX in
Connection from USB analog audio out to AUX in (via iBolt cable)
USB digital out over OTG cable to external DAC, DAC AUX out to car AUX in
Option 3 is far and away the best sound quality. It's a very noticeable difference--as good as playing a CD in the head unit. I will use this option with the Nexus 6P no matter what, but I'd like to be able to charge the phone at the same time, especially on long road trips while using navigation and playing audio. Both the USB Power Delivery specification 2.0 and Android Marshmallow make reference to being able to charge USB host devices, so the missing link is what the best DAC would be to achieve that. It may be that the phone itself will be able to decide whether to draw or output power, which would be ideal if the DAC recognizes and respects that choice.
As for the question about why not get a new head unit? This is an older car, and it's frankly not worth the expense and effort to do that at this time. I'll definitely be looking for Android Auto as a feature in any new car I consider down the road, however.
Techno Trousers said:
Connection from headphone output to AUX in
Connection from USB analog audio out to AUX in (via iBolt cable)
USB digital out over OTG cable to external DAC, DAC AUX out to car AUX in
Option 3 is far and away the best sound quality. It's a very noticeable difference--as good as playing a CD in the head unit. I will use this option with the Nexus 6P no matter what, but I'd like to be able to charge the phone at the same time, especially on long road trips while using navigation and playing audio. Both the USB Power Delivery specification 2.0 and Android Marshmallow make reference to being able to charge USB host devices, so the missing link is what the best DAC would be to achieve that. It may be that the phone itself will be able to decide whether to draw or output power, which would be ideal if the DAC recognizes and respects that choice.
As for the question about why not get a new head unit? This is an older car, and it's frankly not worth the expense and effort to do that at this time. I'll definitely be looking for Android Auto as a feature in any new car I consider down the road, however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GROM kit I bought allows me to play music from USB stick, connect the phone via USB and drive it from the car interface, and aux in. The USB3 kit allows you to add a Bluetooth. I prefer the music on the USB stick. Better connecting a $5 stick than a $500 phone.
The 6P is not USB-PD compliant in that it does not support the PD profiles. 15W (5V/3A) is not a PD spec. It is a Type C spec. Supposedly it uses the control channel in the type C cable/connector but no one knows how far it goes. Some suggest that it will allow reversing power flow. It should allow both data flow and power flow, but it is not a full implementation of USB-PD and is still only USB 2.0 compliant. It should allow charging while connected as long as the host it is plugged into will provide power. At what rate is the big question. Most assume it will drop to legacy 5V 1.5A.
Thanks, dwswager, that's good info. I have a Grom Audio unit in my wife's Mazda, which lacks an AUX in. I'm not 100% happy with it because it tends to lose the ability to get digital audio from the phone, and she needs to reload a config file from a USB stick to reenable that.
I do tend to think that all of this will get worked out in the end. I'm a bit of an edge case, I admit. I do have some good stopgaps now, at least for the non-charging case. That Turtle Beach mini DAC is quite intriguing at only $20. At that price it's worth taking a chance.
I hope we can keep this thread alive as we start to discover what works and what doesn't. November can't get here soon enough!
Techno Trousers said:
Thanks, dwswager, that's good info. I have a Grom Audio unit in my wife's Mazda, which lacks an AUX in. I'm not 100% happy with it because it tends to lose the ability to get digital audio from the phone, and she needs to reload a config file from a USB stick to reenable that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assume you have spoken to GROM. Also will assume you flashed the latest firmware update to your wife's unit. The downside on the AUX input is that it uses a proprietary DIN-4 connector and the cable they supply has a male 3.5mm end. So if you want to mount a female 3.5mm jack in the dash you have to use an extra F/F adapter because the jacks are all wired with 3.5mm male ends. They also make an aux cable with both 3.5 and USB female so you can charge and output analog audio at the same time. You also get standard 5V 1.5A via the USB port in the AND2, USB3 and the ipod only number.
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Techno Trousers said:
Thanks, dwswager, that's good info. I have a Grom Audio unit in my wife's Mazda, which lacks an AUX in. I'm not 100% happy with it because it tends to lose the ability to get digital audio from the phone, and she needs to reload a config file from a USB stick to reenable that.
I do tend to think that all of this will get worked out in the end. I'm a bit of an edge case, I admit. I do have some good stopgaps now, at least for the non-charging case. That Turtle Beach mini DAC is quite intriguing at only $20. At that price it's worth taking a chance.
I hope we can keep this thread alive as we start to discover what works and what doesn't. November can't get here soon enough!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In terms of audio quality, the Turtle Beach DAC is a serious improvement over just using the 1/8 in. out of the phone. I will say that the Bass response is HUGE coming out of the Turtle Beach, so I usually eq the bass down a couple notches on the car stereo. That said, it really is an amazing improvement in sound quality for very little investment. (I'm a musician, so I tend to fixate on these things.)
By the way, I bought this cable to extend the reach of my OTG / Host cable,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HAOKCE8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
It's interesting that the seller says USB OTG cables do not support charging.
"This cable is what is known as an OTG, or On-The-Go cable. USB On-The-Go is a specification that allows USB devices such as digital audio players or mobile phones to act as a host, allowing other USB devices like a USB flash drive, digital camera, mouse, or keyboard to be attached to them. These cables do not support charging or syncing of devices. "
bump.
Has anyone found a portable solution to charge phone and offload digital audio to a DAC?
I'm happy to say that the phone works great with my Sony UDA-1 dac/amp (both audio and charging), but it runs off of mains voltage.
I'd even be happy with any single cord solution for simultaneous charging and audio output.
Alright, lemme clear some stuff up here.
For most phones, yes a USB DAC provides better quality than what comes out of the headphone jack and also more volume (doubters can just live on in ignorant bliss :good
On my LG G2, at least, the OTG Y-cable linked earlied charged the phone (although it didn't actually seem to indicate it was charging) and worked with the DAC at the same time
The same cable, when converted from micro USB to USB C and used with the 6P, seems to only be providing charging, the DAC is not working
I will see if I can find anything in the logs or whether there's anything else I can do, maybe bypassing the Y-cable to see if the DAC works at all with the 6P.
Yeeesss yes please, if you or anyone else happens to get a DAC working with the Nexus 6P, please let us all know. I love my 6P, but I definitely miss my setup with my OnePlus One + USB DAC to car AUX...
Is anyone else noticing that audio is downsampled to mono when using Nexus 6p + USB DAC?
mcnoggin said:
Is anyone else noticing that audio is downsampled to mono when using Nexus 6p + USB DAC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, not at all.
There's also noticeably less noise through the DAC compared to my old Galaxy Note 3.
Which DAC are you using?
Bri81 said:
No, not at all.
There's also noticeably less noise through the DAC compared to my old Galaxy Note 3.
Which DAC are you using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this
http://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Beach-Advantage-Digital-Adapter/dp/B0036VO4X4
it worked fine with my nexus 5.
what are you using?
---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ----------
Bri81 said:
No, not at all.
There's also noticeably less noise through the DAC compared to my old Galaxy Note 3.
Which DAC are you using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also, I installed the trial version of USB Audio Player Pro , and I was able to get stereo sound (though limited to the interface of that app and only local files). So there is something really weird happening software wise . . .
Well I tried a USB C to A converter, and my DAC is working fine with the 6P with that. But no charging at the same time, of course.
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Adapter-Chromebook-MacBook-Compatible/dp/B00WJSPWRM/
Zorloo is making their earbuds for type C soon. They have built in dacs.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
My issue
Hi everyone, I have a Nexus 6P and want to route my audio through a USB type C converter to 3.5mm headphone Jack. I have purchased one online, but it doesn't seem to be working. I have seen that the Moto Z has this adapter and I assumed one I found online would be compatible with my 6P. The reason I want to do this is because I prefer for the AUX jack to come out the bottom of my phone.
What I have tired
Changed 'Select USB Configuration' to all the different options and tried playing music.
Tried 'audio routing' apps from the app store
What I would like to know
Is this because I need to change a setting in my phone to route music out of the USB C?
Do I need to get some kind of DAC to allow support for this?
Has anyone else tried this with their phone?
Thanks
broj0nes
Subscribed. Interested in the solution.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
If you don't mind my asking, why bother?
eregev said:
If you don't mind my asking, why bother?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One reason is that to me it makes more sense to put your phone upside down into you pocket. I've always done this at least. So when listening to music I have to put it the other way round. I have also heard the USB C port offers better sound quality.
brotherj0nes said:
One reason is that to me it makes more sense to put your phone upside down into you pocket. I've always done this at least. So when listening to music I have to put it the other way round. I have also heard the USB C port offers better sound quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Re:sound quality, you'd possibly see a quality increase if you use an external Digital to Analogue Converter or fully usb-c headphones. BUT, if you're using a little dongle (if it's possible), then the phone is still managing the analogue conversion and, thus, a very similar quality of audio output. Now I don't know of the 6p's ability to pipe it straight out iPhone 7 style through a dongle, but short of buying a DAC and going whole-hog on an audio upgrade, I'd just flip your phone the other way in your pocket and go the standard route.
Just my $.02
I have been looking for a solution to this too and I seem to have found one. I poked around on Amazon and I think I finally found adapters that work, here's the link https://goo.gl/QT2ith This the only one with positive reviews so when it comes in on the 30th I'll let all of you know.
sgandy2989 said:
I have been looking for a solution to this too and I seem to have found one. I poked around on Amazon and I think I finally found adapters that work, here's the link https://goo.gl/QT2ith This the only one with positive reviews so when it comes in on the 30th I'll let all of you know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks quite similar to the one that I got. Hopefully it works for you! Let me know how it goes
I read recently that the current implementation of audio over USB-C isn't very efficient or battery friendly. There's a new spec being ratified to provide audio like the iphone can. Hopefully that's a firmware change and not a hardware one.
http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/17/12519936/intel-usb-type-c-headphone-jack-replacement-idf-2016
I don't think it's possible on the 6P, not without using a USB DAC anyway.
As far as I'm aware, the adapter you have is for a USB 3/3.1 interface. While the 6P has USB-C it is USB 2.
I'm able to get audio out of my USB C port, but it's with a USB headset. Haven't tried it with a 3.5mm headphone adapter, but havd no reason to try it either.
This is weird. Because i have a pair of Sennheiser Urbanites (Wireless edition), and i can use bluetooth, aux, and usb (like for a computer) audio. I once tried to turn off the headsets (bluetooth off, aux and usb still works if connected), and turned off bluetooth on my phone. Then i used my USB type C to USB type A Female adapter (from the google store), and connected the usb-cable from the headsets into the type c adapter. it did output audio through the usb-cable.
Mgrev said:
This is weird. Because i have a pair of Sennheiser Urbanites (Wireless edition), and i can use bluetooth, aux, and usb (like for a computer) audio. I once tried to turn off the headsets (bluetooth off, aux and usb still works if connected), and turned off bluetooth on my phone. Then i used my USB type C to USB type A Female adapter (from the google store), and connected the usb-cable from the headsets into the type c adapter. it did output audio through the usb-cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bluetooth headphones usually have their own DAC, so the audio for all but the Aux is still being sent through the DAC first, which is supported by older USB standards.
The new USB 3.1 Audio standard can pass through analogue audio from the internal DAC, which is what I believe phones such as the Moto Z utilise. Otherwise the adapter would require it's own DAC, which would make it far larger and more expensive.
Not sure if you will find a good solution at the moment since they just created a standard for audio over usb c http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160927006252/en/USB-IF-Announces-USB-Audio-Device-Class-3.0
Did the amazon converter end up working for you?
My experience so far.
Hi, I ordered some usb c to 3.5mm & out of the box so far they aren't working. I tried Neutron and tried to force the audio to usb but unsuccessfully with phone not recognizing the USB connection.
On the other hand the type C to usb-a adapter worked beautifully using mixplorer. If I get working, will update. Thanks.
Hey all,
I got the Pixel 2 a few days ago and I love it, but there seems to be an issue with the audio dongle sound quality when connected to my car. Usually there's no problem with the dongle using it with headphones of any kind, but in the car (i checked the aux cable, no issues with it on other phones) there is some cracking sounds and the bass is not so clear as it is on other phones or as it is while using the dongle with headphones.
Anyone have an issue with the dongle?
Have you tried any other dongles? The Essential Phone had a higher quality USB C to 3.5 mm dongle compare to the Google dongle. I wish you can buy it. I saw this at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0778QKKFJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1A7L2TLUUDQ97&psc=1 this might be better than the Google Dongle. I was going to try it to see. Anyone have any experience with this?
I haven't tried anything else, I just got the phone. But I unfortunately bought 3 dongles with it from Google to put on each of my auxiliary devices...
Ok I found out the problem while using the dongle on my brothers Pixel 1. The dongle outputs much more volume than a 3.5mm audio jack, so it's only natural that the bass especially vibrates more and causes this cracking noise. Solution is to decrease the volume on the phone by 1 or 2 levels.
So I know that the Pixel XL doesn't suffer from the lack of an audio / headphone jack, but I was curious if anyone has tried to use any USB-C Charging + Audio adapters with their Pixel XL.
My wife has a 2005 FX35 which doesn't have bluetooth in the car, we've tried FM Transmitters in the past and those aren't great. However she has been using a 2.5mm headphone to cassette adapter in her car with her phone which she prefers. So I was thinking maybe there is a way to have her just be able to plug in the USB-C + Audio cable for just 1 cable to plug in vs a USB-C + a separate 2.5mm cable.
That car sounds old enough to be able to replace the CD player without much hassle.
Definitely upgrade the radio. You at least need a AUX input nowadays.
Since I can see you've had such gracious and helpful responses so far, I did some research and it seems that most phones that support USB-C charging+audio adapters don't have aux ports on them. For our phones, most of the adapters won't work unless because the wires usually routed to the aux port are running to the USB-C female port on the phone. While there are some USB-C peripherals that can take audio from our USB-C ports (USB DACs, docks, etc), none of the aux+USB-C adapters I've been able to find online are compatible with our phone and all of them were pretty shoddy.
Unfortunately, I think your wife is going to be stuck using the 2 cord method for a while longer.
My last car was a 2007 Accord without Bluetooth. I purchased a Bluetooth adapter that hooked in to the back of the stock radio. There are similar ones made for the 2003-2008 FX35 if you're willing to spend about $150.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GP5VPT4/
If you're handy with a screwdriver, it's a relatively easy install believe it or not.
It might be worth doing a bit of research because I guess there are different ones depending on if you've got gps or not.
That might be a better long term solution if you're planning on keeping the car for a while longer.