It's kind of a head scratcher. I compared it with my 3T and is pretty noticeable as on the 3t the colors are better. Was it to keep cost down?
Screen on time is much better than amoled when viewing mostly white content such as web pages.
Amoled tends to over saturate colours, lcd is more subdued but also more natural looking.
Rgb matrix gives better sharpness than the pentile matrix typically used in amoled screens.
Possible issues securing sufficient quantities if amoled panels.
Mate 9 screen is also brighter.
My last three daily drivers were the Note 7, Oneplus 3 and s7. There's definite advantages to amoled but there's advantages to lcd as well. Personally I have no complaints, Huawei have used a very high quality ips panel, so I'd be surprised if cost was the main motivator.
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Exactly. People tend to hear AMOLED and think it's clear cut. It's not. Each tech has its own pros and cons.
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I forgot to mention screen burn in - a problem that lcd panels don't face and which they still can't solve for amoled.
The screen on the Mate 9 is gorgeous, I've caught myself just staring at it a few times. Not once have I felt like it is a downgrade from the s7, and the s7 is a better panel than what the Oneplus has.
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hackdrag0n said:
Screen on time is much better than amoled when viewing mostly white content such as web pages.
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Tell that to LG. Their phones are LCD yet have terrible battery life. Yet my Pixel XL and Samsung phones have had much better battery life despite using AMOLED... so this is not necessarily true.
hackdrag0n said:
Amoled tends to over saturate colours, lcd is more subdued but also more natural looking.
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Again, color calibration/saturation has NOTHING to do with screen tech. The manufacturer sets the color calibration/target. The Mate 9 IS OVER SATURATED. Not as much as most AMOLED phones, but it is not calibrated to sRGB by ANY means. AMOLED phones have typically over saturated because AMOLED has had much higher color coverage capability, and it was a strong selling point. I dislike over saturated colors, but love AMOLED when it is set to a reasonable target (sRGB or Adobe RGB). Contrast is extremely important for image quality, ESPECIALLY in dark viewing conditions. Fast pixel response time is hugely important for a smartphone to maintain a "clean" looking display when scrolling. The Mate 9 LCD is one of the worst I've seen. It has bad ghosting and/or overshoot artifacting which makes the problem even worse.
hackdrag0n said:
Rgb matrix gives better sharpness than the pentile matrix typically used in amoled screens.
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This is true. Maybe Samsung will bring back RGB for the S8. They used to have RGB AMOLED in older phones at one point, you know?
hackdrag0n said:
Mate 9 screen is also brighter.
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Not true. Samsung panels have high brightness modes under sunlight and other bright light sources. I can trigger this mode whenever I want using root and a kernel. My Pixel XL is brighter than my Mate 9.
Governa said:
Exactly. People tend to hear AMOLED and think it's clear cut. It's not. Each tech has its own pros and cons.
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It is clear cut. AMOLED is superior. It's why I spent nearly $6,000 for TWO TV's in my house that are AMOLED. The quality is mind blowing on a large screen, and once you realize its benefits there, you will never want an LCD again... even on your smartphone. At least that's the case with me. It's also why Apple is going for AMOLED with the iPhone 8... because they know it's better.
No, it's your opinion that amoled is superior. It's not a hard fact.
I'm also not sure how your pixel can be brighter when review sites have it listed at under 400 nits and the Mate 9 is listed at over 600.
Actually, I'll rephrase that: if contrast ratio is the most important factor to you then yes amoled is a must. Other than that I still maintain that there are still areas where lcd has advantages.
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There are a lot of misconceptions about display technology.
As mentioned they each have advantages and disadvantages.
LCD has a very flat power consumption due to the fact that it's essentially white LEDs shining through color filters whereas AMOLED consist of individual pixels that combine to create color meaning that each LED will vary in consumption according to what is displayed meaning white requires all of them to shine at maximum to create white which is why AMOLED uses more power in that situation and no power when displaying pure black. LG has somewhat solved that on their TVs because they use 4 sub pixels: RGBW. They therefore create white separately and can save power that way.
AMOLED is only oversaturated because it is naturally a wide gamut display. When uncalibrated it will look oversaturated because all content is pretty much sRGB which is a limited color space. Many manufacturers including Huawei don't bother calibrating their displays for accuracy.
Huawei most likely used LCD for the regular Mate 9 because no decent 6" AMOLED was available which explains why the Pro variant has a 5.5" display.
LCD has poor latencies which is also why the regular 9 doesn't support Daydream. OLED displays naturally has low latencies which is why all Daydream compatible phones are AMOLED.
AMOLED is more prone to burn-in and is also prone to display degradation due to each sub pixel aging at varying rates.
LCD displays have higher peak brightness and is therefore more easy to see in sunlight. On the other hand, AMOLED have individually controlled brightness meaning pure blacks can be attained (turning off pixels completely) whereas LCD have edge lit displays with poor control resulting in light bleeding and above-zero blacks resulting in grey-ish blacks because there will always be some light shining through. So the contrast is much greater and only limited by peak brightness on the AMOLED display.
AMOLED doesn't have RGB but RG-BG sub pixels resulting in some odd problems including potentially green tint and reduced display quality and sharpness. Pentile sucks but the yields are better I guess and it does have some advantages such as decreased power consumption.
Finally, an often overlooked issue: many modern LCD displays use voltage controlled display brightness regulation where all AMOLED displays use PWM. Why is this important? PWM can cause eye strain and headaches. Especially due to the low frequency of 240 Hz that many AMOLED displays use. Your eyes won't necessarily notice the flickering but they can be irritated by it anyway.
PS. Typed this on my phone... Should have switched to laptop. What a pain to do this write-up.
↑ now THAT is a great post. Kudos.
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hackdrag0n said:
No, it's your opinion that amoled is superior. It's not a hard fact.
I'm also not sure how your pixel can be brighter when review sites have it listed at under 400 nits and the Mate 9 is listed at over 600.
Actually, I'll rephrase that: if contrast ratio is the most important factor to you then yes amoled is a must. Other than that I still maintain that there are still areas where lcd has advantages.
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Look at the world of TV's. As is sits, LG's OLED TV's are the pinnacle of displays. They are the absolute best. No question, no contest, every quality review site agrees, as do the owners (myself included). I said the Pixel is brighter because I have enabled the Samsung panel brightness boost mode via root and a custom kernel - it acts just like the sunlight brightness boost on the S7/S7E, except I can enable it whenever I want. It is just as bright, if not brighter, than the Mate 9. The only advantage LCD has today is higher peak brightness, and that is only true in TV's since they have much larger backlights. Cellphones, AMOLED is actually much better in terms of outdoor viewing as tested by GSM Arena, due to a combination of peak brightness and lower reflectivity. Other than the potential for burn-in/image retention, there is zero benefit to an LCD in a cell phone.
Trixanity said:
LG has somewhat solved that on their TVs because they use 4 sub pixels: RGBW. They therefore create white separately and can save power that way.
Huawei most likely used LCD for the regular Mate 9 because no decent 6" AMOLED was available which explains why the Pro variant has a 5.5" display.
AMOLED is more prone to burn-in and is also prone to display degradation due to each sub pixel aging at varying rates.
AMOLED doesn't have RGB but RG-BG sub pixels resulting in some odd problems including potentially green tint and reduced display quality and sharpness. Pentile sucks but the yields are better I guess and it does have some advantages such as decreased power consumption.
Finally, an often overlooked issue: many modern LCD displays use voltage controlled display brightness regulation where all AMOLED displays use PWM. Why is this important? PWM can cause eye strain and headaches. Especially due to the low frequency of 240 Hz that many AMOLED displays use. Your eyes won't necessarily notice the flickering but they can be irritated by it anyway.
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Someone who actually knows something about AMOLED too on XDA! It's like finding a unicorn... just a few things to add...
LG does add a 4th white subpixel in their TV's, but it's moreso to increase peak brightness and not really save power. When display white, there are actually 3 subpixels turned on (I believe it's red, blue, and white) so it's not making much difference there... but it is certainly brighter because ALL the subpixels are WHITE subpixels (red, blue, and green have color filters), so having a white subpixel without a color filter eliminates brightness loss on those subpixels.
It blows my mind that Huawei couldn't get a decent ~6" AMOLED panel. Motorola did it for the Nexus 6. And hell, Samsung made them a custom 6.6" AMOLED display for the Honor Note 8! Oh well... maybe Samsung wanted less competition against the S8.
I will say that AMOLED phone panels have had a nasty tendency to burn-in. I can't say how the 2016 panels perform in normal usage (store burn-in is not a fair baseline), but it seems to improve every year. Neither of my 2016 LG OLED TV's show any burn-in, and 1 of them has been used as a PC monitor its entire time. I have taken a few steps to mitigate it (I hide icons behind browser windows, have the task bar set to auto-hide, and turn the brightness down slightly), but nothing major and it is perfectly fine. Image retention and uneven wear on the display is often confused with burn-in. For instance, the nav bar on my Pixel XL is clearly visible if I go fullscreen on a gray background (the most obvious color for burn/IR tests), but that is mostly because the black pixels there just never get used... so they're actually brighter, ever so slightly, than the rest of the screen. By running a manual compensation cycle when I'm not using the phone (such as white noise, or inverted colors), it mostly fixes the issue. That is an acceptable trade-off to me, especially considering the fact that the nav bar is always there. My TV's run black-screen compensation cycles automatically every 8 hours or so (after shutdown), so this is the nature of the beast.
True about the RG-BG pentile garbage. But that's Samsung's doing since they have terrible yields with full RGB. They did make at least 1 phone years ago that had true RGB AMOLED, and they marketed that specific feature too, literally telling customers how much sharper RGB is compared to pentile! - funny how they went away from it. Probably why their OLED TV division failed as well, since RGB AMOLED is clearly impossible to produce good yields right now, especially at larger sizes. I am hoping that the S8 brings back RGB AMOLED in the mobile world... rumors say it will.
AMOLED phone panels certainly do use PWM, but LG OLED TV's do not use PWM.
Nitemare3219 said:
Look at the world of TV's. As is sits, LG's OLED TV's are the pinnacle of displays. They are the absolute best. No question, no contest, every quality review site agrees, as do the owners (myself included). I said the Pixel is brighter because I have enabled the Samsung panel brightness boost mode via root and a custom kernel - it acts just like the sunlight brightness boost on the S7/S7E, except I can enable it whenever I want. It is just as bright, if not brighter, than the Mate 9. The only advantage LCD has today is higher peak brightness, and that is only true in TV's since they have much larger backlights. Cellphones, AMOLED is actually much better in terms of outdoor viewing as tested by GSM Arena, due to a combination of peak brightness and lower reflectivity. Other than the potential for burn-in/image retention, there is zero benefit to an LCD in a cell phone.
Someone who actually knows something about AMOLED too on XDA! It's like finding a unicorn... just a few things to add...
LG does add a 4th white subpixel in their TV's, but it's moreso to increase peak brightness and not really save power. When display white, there are actually 3 subpixels turned on (I believe it's red, blue, and white) so it's not making much difference there... but it is certainly brighter because ALL the subpixels are WHITE subpixels (red, blue, and green have color filters), so having a white subpixel without a color filter eliminates brightness loss on those subpixels.
It blows my mind that Huawei couldn't get a decent ~6" AMOLED panel. Motorola did it for the Nexus 6. And hell, Samsung made them a custom 6.6" AMOLED display for the Honor Note 8! Oh well... maybe Samsung wanted less competition against the S8.
I will say that AMOLED phone panels have had a nasty tendency to burn-in. I can't say how the 2016 panels perform in normal usage (store burn-in is not a fair baseline), but it seems to improve every year. Neither of my 2016 LG OLED TV's show any burn-in, and 1 of them has been used as a PC monitor its entire time. I have taken a few steps to mitigate it (I hide icons behind browser windows, have the task bar set to auto-hide, and turn the brightness down slightly), but nothing major and it is perfectly fine. Image retention and uneven wear on the display is often confused with burn-in. For instance, the nav bar on my Pixel XL is clearly visible if I go fullscreen on a gray background (the most obvious color for burn/IR tests), but that is mostly because the black pixels there just never get used... so they're actually brighter, ever so slightly, than the rest of the screen. By running a manual compensation cycle when I'm not using the phone (such as white noise, or inverted colors), it mostly fixes the issue. That is an acceptable trade-off to me, especially considering the fact that the nav bar is always there. My TV's run black-screen compensation cycles automatically every 8 hours or so (after shutdown), so this is the nature of the beast.
True about the RG-BG pentile garbage. But that's Samsung's doing since they have terrible yields with full RGB. They did make at least 1 phone years ago that had true RGB AMOLED, and they marketed that specific feature too, literally telling customers how much sharper RGB is compared to pentile! - funny how they went away from it. Probably why their OLED TV division failed as well, since RGB AMOLED is clearly impossible to produce good yields right now, especially at larger sizes. I am hoping that the S8 brings back RGB AMOLED in the mobile world... rumors say it will.
AMOLED phone panels certainly do use PWM, but LG OLED TV's do not use PWM.
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This is the first time I've been called a unicorn. I like it.
Thanks for the correction on the LG OLED TVs. I was under the impression they used the W-pixel to both produce higher brightness and reduce the added power consumption from going full tilt on each of the other pixels. I did not know they used filters like that actually. I thought they used similar tech to Samsung but apparently not But that also explains why their yields are so different.
About Pentile: that phone was the Samsung Galaxy S2 (coincidentally my first Android phone) - released in 2011. I guess the yields weren't good enough and at the same time they wanted to increase screen density. Maybe it made the yields plummet and then pushing towards HD and full HD made it unfeasible. The S2 had a 800x480 resolution by the way.
I'm hoping the S8 can do away with both Pentile and PWM. Then I'd probably buy it instantly but that's wishful thinking.
PWM is apparently used to avoid hue shifts which I suspect might be because of the Pentile arrangement but I'm not sure. I've not seen measurements on the S2 but I've heard anecdotal evidence that it was actually not using PWM.
It might also explain why LG doesn't use it on their TVs; that they simply don't have that problem with hue shifts because their panels are so different. I wish LG would get back in the OLED display game for smaller screens including phones, tablets, laptops and monitors. It would be so awesome with some competition.
By the way, interesting note on the peak brightness. Can the brightness boost be maintained indefinitely or does it dim after a while? I know LG had a booster on their recent LCDs (of all things) and it dimmed shortly after. One thing I should note that the Mate 9 reaches up to 700 nits and that's not limited to auto brightness like Samsung's is meaning that you can manually boost it to that at all times. The Pixel XL only manages 400 in the same scenario but if you can boost the peak brightness through a mod and keep it there (perhaps even without auto brightness?) then that's impressive especially if goes over 700. I do believe 700 nits is about as bright as you'll get on a smartphone LCD. The only reason we even need it is because of sunlight. 700 nits would be blinding to my eyes in any other scenario
If only they could invent a display that could switch between being emissive and reflective with few drawbacks - that would solve a lot of problems.
Edit: forgot to address the Huawei panel. Whether Huawei could get a 6" panel for the phone or not is uncertain. I'm just guessing; I have no sources to back that up but it seems to be the case that they couldn't find a panel that suited their needs. They probably also had a good deal with JDI since they've used their panels for some years and AMOLED was only just about to become the expected standard. We've long seen LCD being used by most manufacturers - it's only in the recent year or two that it has spread to other brands than Samsung. I mean Apple, LG, HTC, Sony and Huawei have all been using LCD either exclusively or primarily. That's about to change in the coming years.
I'm thinking the AMOLED panels they could get weren't up to the standard they were looking for. The LCD panel they used was pretty damn good although poorly calibrated. Although now that I think of it the reason the Pro is is 5.5" might be more to do with the requirement for a curved display which limits their options quite a bit. Also, keep in mind a custom display is expensive so producing a phone on the scale of a Mate 9 would probably limit them to off-the-shelf components to avoid gutting their profit margins. I'm sure they could have gotten any display they wanted if they were willing to pay the price.
With that being said: there are probably many reasons not to go AMOLED for the regular Mate 9 and all we can do is guess what their reasons are.
Trixanity said:
About Pentile: that phone was the Samsung Galaxy S2 (coincidentally my first Android phone) - released in 2011. I guess the yields weren't good enough and at the same time they wanted to increase screen density. Maybe it made the yields plummet and then pushing towards HD and full HD made it unfeasible. The S2 had a 800x480 resolution by the way.
I'm hoping the S8 can do away with both PenTile and PWM. Then I'd probably buy it instantly but that's wishful thinking.
PWM is apparently used to avoid hue shifts which I suspect might be because of the Pentile arrangement but I'm not sure. I've not seen measurements on the S2 but I've heard anecdotal evidence that it was actually not using PWM.
It might also explain why LG doesn't use it on their TVs; that they simply don't have that problem with hue shifts because their panels are so different.
By the way, interesting note on the peak brightness. Can the brightness boost be maintained indefinitely or does it dim after a while? I know LG had a booster on their recent LCDs (of all things) and it dimmed shortly after. One thing I should note that the Mate 9 reaches up to 700 nits and that's not limited to auto brightness like Samsung's is meaning that you can manually boost it to that at all times. The Pixel XL only manages 400 in the same scenario but if you can boost the peak brightness through a mod and keep it there (perhaps even without auto brightness?) then that's impressive especially if goes over 700. I do believe 700 nits is about as bright as you'll get on a smartphone LCD. The only reason we even need it is because of sunlight. 700 nits would be blinding to my eyes in any other scenario
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The S2... man, long time ago. They probably only managed RGB because of the low resolution and/or realized then just how bad the yields were.
I've never noticed PWM, so it's no issue for me. I believe the color hue shifts when viewing at an angle is actually because the display is pentile. LG's OLED TV's have mind blowing viewing angles - it is essentially perfect no matter where you view from in terms of color, AND the brightness does not decrease either like on an LCD - forgot to mention that too! LCD panels get much dimmer if you view off-axis... OLED do not.
As far as I know, the Pixel can maintain the brightness boost indefinitely. I have used it for upwards of 20 minutes or so before. I can manually enable it via widget, or have it set to function automatically as well. I'm not sure I want to test long periods of time though... there could be a downside to it over time (perhaps why Samsung does not allow it to be user enabled). I know LG's phones in the past have quickly turned down their peak brightness due to heat issues. I wonder if the Mate 9 could suffer from the same problem eventually? Probably not seeing as how Apple manages to have displays that bright as well without issue. I think LG's mobile division is just really, really lacking right now. Hopefully they bring OLED to their phones again soon (they've used P-OLED a few times, and I experienced it in their Watch Urbane LTE 2nd edition smartwatch, and that was fantastic).
Nitemare3219 said:
The S2... man, long time ago. They probably only managed RGB because of the low resolution and/or realized then just how bad the yields were.
I've never noticed PWM, so it's no issue for me. I believe the color hue shifts when viewing at an angle is actually because the display is pentile. LG's OLED TV's have mind blowing viewing angles - it is essentially perfect no matter where you view from in terms of color, AND the brightness does not decrease either like on an LCD - forgot to mention that too! LCD panels get much dimmer if you view off-axis... OLED do not.
As far as I know, the Pixel can maintain the brightness boost indefinitely. I have used it for upwards of 20 minutes or so before. I can manually enable it via widget, or have it set to function automatically as well. I'm not sure I want to test long periods of time though... there could be a downside to it over time (perhaps why Samsung does not allow it to be user enabled). I know LG's phones in the past have quickly turned down their peak brightness due to heat issues. I wonder if the Mate 9 could suffer from the same problem eventually? Probably not seeing as how Apple manages to have displays that bright as well without issue. I think LG's mobile division is just really, really lacking right now. Hopefully they bring OLED to their phones again soon (they've used P-OLED a few times, and I experienced it in their Watch Urbane LTE 2nd edition smartwatch, and that was fantastic).
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Just a heads up, I've added an edit to my previous post.
I wish I could afford an OLED TV One would be foolish not to pick up an LG OLED TV over any LCD display out there today (barring the price that is).
I don't think maintaining peak brightness is an issue unless you're standing out in direct sunlight all day with your phone. I mean you wouldn't switch to manual brightness and crank it up when you're inside. Most probably use auto brightness anyway and that means it won't be anywhere near the maximum unless you're outside. I'm sure it might reduce the lifespan of the LEDs or maybe increase the likelihood of a defect.
I was actually quite intrigued by LG's G Flex series (aka banana phone) which had a P-OLED display. It might be a bit gimmicky especially the 'self-healing' back cover but it looked different but it was plagued by poor sales and the second iteration was let down by the Snapdragon 810.
The G6 will have their new 18:9 (2:1 really) 5.7" LCD display. It will have 2880 x 1440 resolution. So not this time.
While beautiful, oled tv's are **** for gaming due to the horrendous input lag. They can also suffer from burn in. Oled/amoled may be the technology of the future if they sort the niggling issues. Right now lcd still has merits. Quantum dot might bring lcd to the fore again though, time will tell
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hackdrag0n said:
While beautiful, oled tv's are **** for gaming due to the horrendous input lag. They can also suffer from burn in. Oled/amoled may be the technology of the future if they sort the niggling issues. Right now lcd still has merits. Quantum dot might bring lcd to the fore again though, time will tell
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I doubt the input lag stems from the panel technology. Input lag is usually related to processing lag in the display controller and other IC. However they can achieve 1 ms response time and theoretically 100000 Hz refresh rate, so it has the potential to be the best gaming display technology ever.
As previously mentioned: what many consider burn-in is merely image retention which is very much reversible and it does continue to get better in that regard.
Trixanity said:
I doubt the input lag stems from the panel technology. Input lag is usually related to processing lag in the display controller and other IC. However they can achieve 1 ms response time and theoretically 100000 Hz refresh rate, so it has the potential to be the best gaming display technology ever.
As previously mentioned: what many consider burn-in is merely image retention which is very much reversible and it does continue to get better in that regard.
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Well "burn-in" is actually the leds "burning" so there is no way to recover them.
Lodix said:
Well "burn-in" is actually the leds "burning" so there is no way to recover them.
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That doesn't really refute what I said. That's merely an explanation for what burn-in is. What I said is that many think image retention is burn-in when they're two different things (or more accurately you could say that the symptoms are the same but the prognosis is different especially if given the right medication - so to speak). Image retention is reversible as I said.
Trixanity said:
That doesn't really refute what I said. That's merely an explanation for what burn-in is. What I said is that many think image retention is burn-in when they're two different things (or more accurately you could say that the symptoms are the same but the prognosis is different especially if given the right medication - so to speak). Image retention is reversible as I said.
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But the problem with oled panels is the burn-in, not the retention. Maybe this year they have manged to solve it someway since Apple is implementing it in their iPhones and people are very nitpicking with their devices.
PD: I am all over AMOLED panels, it is one of the reason why I got the 9 Pro.
I don't mind a quality 1080 panel. Huawei makes me rethink my love of AMOLED displays.
I personally don't see a major difference unless it's the newest Samsung flagship. Not a major change from my 6p or Nexus 6 but these weren't cream of the crop AMOLED displays.
I truly thought this would be the mate that got the qhd AMOLED especially after the honor note 8 that released not long before this one. Extremely happy with the LCD panel.
Last 2 LCD phones I used was LeEco s1 and lg v10. The s1 had a great LCD panel that look AMOLED. Lg v10 just looked washed out most of the time.
hackdrag0n said:
While beautiful, oled tv's are **** for gaming due to the horrendous input lag. They can also suffer from burn in. Oled/amoled may be the technology of the future if they sort the niggling issues. Right now lcd still has merits. Quantum dot might bring lcd to the fore again though, time will tell
Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk
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You're wrong. In 2015, yes they were ****. I had an EG9600 and it had about 50ms of input lag. I have 2 2016 TV's now, a C6 and a B6. The B6 just got an update and it does 28ms of input lag at 4:2:2, but close to 70ms at 4:4:4. The C6 does 34ms of input lag at either setting (4:2:2, or 4:4:4). The lag is NOT noticeable at all, and part of this is because the pixels respond instantly to new frames (<.1ms) whereas IPS and VA can take MANY milliseconds to update the pixels - some panels take dozens of milliseconds for a full transition for some colors. OLED is the fastest refresh for a panel today. My C6 has hundreds of hours of PC use ONLY, and has ZERO burn in... NONE.
Lodix said:
But the problem with oled panels is the burn-in, not the retention. Maybe this year they have manged to solve it someway since Apple is implementing it in their iPhones and people are very nitpicking with their devices.
PD: I am all over AMOLED panels, it is one of the reason why I got the 9 Pro.
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The problem is a lot of people mistake burn-in for image retention because they don't come back and check again later after viewing different content on the display for awhile. I will say that burn-in can be an issue for phones though, depending on how you use them/set them up. My friend's S5 has the keyboard ghosted/burned into the display. He must text a LOT or something. Blew my mind when I saw that.
hackdrag0n said:
While beautiful, oled tv's are **** for gaming due to the horrendous input lag.
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Not in Gaming/PC Mode on the most recent models. On the 2017 OLED the input lag is 21ms in virtually all situations.
Trixanity said:
I wish I could afford an OLED TV One would be foolish not to pick up an LG OLED TV over any LCD display out there today (barring the price that is).
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For pricing, you just have to wait until Black Friday for deals on the current year's models. That's the best time to buy a TV that will last you many years. Picked up the LG 65" C7P for $1900 last Fall. I wouldn't consider Samsung's QLED TV's over LG's RGBW OLED. However, there is the advantage of luminance. QLED have a higher luminance. Also keep in mind that although RGBW is not Pentile and doesn't suffer from inferior sub-resolution, you do lose color volume to an extent when using the higher levels of luminance (You'll be depending on the additional white sub-pixel). I'd say this is a fairly tertiary concern but could be important if you use the OLED in a bright living room. If using a dark room, there's absolutely no contest. Personally, I have the C7P in a living room and still completely satisfied. There's a reason why it's a champ on every review site. Oh and for reference, all the LG 2017 OLED have essentially the same panel irregardless of price.
Trixanity said:
About Pentile: that phone was the Samsung Galaxy S2 (coincidentally my first Android phone) - released in 2011. I guess the yields weren't good enough and at the same time they wanted to increase screen density. Maybe it made the yields plummet and then pushing towards HD and full HD made it unfeasible. The S2 had a 800x480 resolution by the way.
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The Samsung Galaxy Note II (2012) also had a Full RGB AMOLED Display (720P HD). That was the last time for phones. However, Samsung also still does Full RGB AMOLED for the larger 9.7" models in their premium lines of tablets (Galaxy Tab S2, Tab S3). Those have the same 4:3 resolution as the iPad (2048x1536). The 10.5" Galaxy Tab S has a 2560x1600 Full RGB AMOLED Display as well. I certainly hope Samsung turns away from Pentile sometime in the future, but I don't think they'll do so anytime soon for smartphones. However, there is some hope.
O.K, the Samsung Galaxy A20 is a budget phone (I bought mine for AU$239) so I do not expect any "flagship" performance but the initial attraction was the Amoled display that has some degree of daylight readability, reasonable camera performance, the relatively big battery capacity for SoC size and the glimmer of hope in rooting this device.
After a little while, some things becomes apparent which I would like to share:
There is no light sensor so screen brightness cannot adapt to ambient light....a strange and disappointing omission
The phone is made in Vietnam not South Korea...just an observation
The heavily embedded bloat from Samsung and Google is chronic in magnitude and its primary purpose is for harvesting personal information and pushing ads
Fingerprint lock works efficiently but the rear sensor is hard to locate
WiFi reception range is poor.
The Android One UI is pleasingly clean but the Settings menus are a bit disorganized
Root can be achieved relatively easily but is "precarious" to say the least.
Show me your good and bad list
jajk said:
O.K, the Samsung Galaxy A20 is a budget phone (I bought mine for AU$239) so I do not expect any "flagship" performance but the initial attraction was the Amoled display that has some degree of daylight readability, reasonable camera performance, the relatively big battery capacity for SoC size and the glimmer of hope in rooting this device.
After a little while, some things becomes apparent which I would like to share:
There is no light sensor so screen brightness cannot adapt to ambient light....a strange and disappointing omission
The phone is made in Vietnam not South Korea...just an observation
The heavily embedded bloat from Samsung and Google is chronic in magnitude and its primary purpose is for harvesting personal information and pushing ads
Fingerprint lock works efficiently but the rear sensor is hard to locate
WiFi reception range is poor.
The Android One UI is pleasingly clean but the Settings menus are a bit disorganized
Root can be achieved relatively easily but is "precarious" to say the least.
Show me your good and bad list
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It had no light sensor but somehow it uses the cameras to adjust to ambient light.
Update after using for some time.....
I really miss not having a notification LED - a backwards step to delete it for the notched display fad. An edge LED would have been great but that would cost 3c to include.....
Mobile reception is noticeably weaker than my old Moto G 2013 and Xiaomi Redmi Note2 - another backwards step!
jajk said:
Update after using for some time.....
I really miss not having a notification LED - a backwards step to delete it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I came from a Nexus 6P and found the notification light very handy. It's not a deal breaker for me though.
Does anyone know if the A20 has an oleophobic layer on the screen?
This might be stupid question but why does my A20 SM-A205G not have NFC there is no options under settings or on status bar to activate it but I see some SM-A205U have it and other 205g have enabled, do I have the chip in phone already? Just need to flash other firmware to use it? Has anyone else had any luck activating NFC?
I've had the phone about a month now and coming from an LG V30 before this I can say that despite all the cons I'm overall happier with this phone over that garbage. Barely.
Pros:
The A20 camera is much better with low light
Apps seem to crash less
I also like the Samsung UI more than I expected
The samsung keyboard is so much better than any other keyboard I've been able to find in the app store
I like how the lock button is on the side instead of the back like on the V30
Cons:
The camera is still pretty grainy even in sunlight
The auto screen brightness sucks balls. I can't even count how many times the screen dimmed & brightened just in the last few mins while I'm sitting in one spot
I also very much notice the lack of ram. It feels really laggy at times, like a 5 second delay when I'm just typing or sometimes I'll tap and it'll register as a hold
I can easily see the downgrade in screen resolution when watching videos
The proximity sensor. I'll be in a call and occasionally my face will mute the call or dial numbers
Or when I had the feature activated to double tap to turn on the screen, it would turn on in my pocket all the time and mess with buttons or sliders. On numerous occasions my phone would be ringing and I'd pull it out to find out my leg was messing with the volume slider. Not once did the LG do that
And finally I should've looked into the ability to root this phone before I got it. I have the A205U sadly and didn't make sure it's even unlockable with all the extensive research I was doing while I was looking to replace my LG
ChewbaccaAndroid said:
This might be stupid question but why does my A20 SM-A205G not have NFC there is no options under settings or on status bar to activate it but I see some SM-A205U have it and other 205g have enabled, do I have the chip in phone already? Just need to flash other firmware to use it? Has anyone else had any luck activating NFC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same question.... I've seen through the internet many sites saying the a20 has nfc, and even give instructions for activating it , but i couldn't.... Wether it has or not, I'm not certain at all.
Any way to activate nfc using root or something else of the sort?
Have had the Note 20 Ultra from T-Mobile since Wednesday and then phones been be great except for two flaws. One is native gestures still not working 100% smooth with third party launchers - which is okay, I am using FNG anyway, but another is the screen brightness.
Despite being in direct sunlight, the panel doesn't get bright. Samsung claims 1500 nits of brightness, it definitely doesn't get there through either manually sliding the brightness or setting it to auto brightness. Definitely isn't as bright as my OnePlus 8 Pro.
I've annoyingly factory reset the phone to no avail. Anyone else having issues?
Yes, it's not great .... my Note 8 is brighter in normal use.
The panel does get brighter in strong daylight but the maximum manual brightness is poor.
AhsanU said:
Have had the Note 20 Ultra from T-Mobile since Wednesday and then phones been be great except for two flaws. One is native gestures still not working 100% smooth with third party launchers - which is okay, I am using FNG anyway, but another is the screen brightness.
Despite being in direct sunlight, the panel doesn't get bright. Samsung claims 1500 nits of brightness, it definitely doesn't get there through either manually sliding the brightness or setting it to auto brightness. Definitely isn't as bright as my OnePlus 8 Pro.
I've annoyingly factory reset the phone to no avail. Anyone else having issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is some kind of protection bec extra brightness for long time damage Amoled displays so they decided to limit it in normal usage
It's bright but the white point is um, weird.
Reminds me of the Surface Pro IPS panels, always, always, too green!
And the ability to adjust RGB levels has nary an effect!
I want the ability to calibrate the display properly FFS!
I know it's a decent display but gimping the calibration ability makes about as much sense as putting bias ply tires on a Ferrari!
cpufrost said:
It's bright but the white point is um, weird.
Reminds me of the Surface Pro IPS panels, always, always, too green!
And the ability to adjust RGB levels has nary an effect!
I want the ability to calibrate the display properly FFS!
I know it's a decent display but gimping the calibration ability makes about as much sense as putting bias ply tires on a Ferrari!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read what samsung say about its Dynamic Amoled panels you will understand why the white looks weird , they have implemented a Hardware blue light filter which filters the harmful blue light emissions that is why all new samsung displays show white a llitle yellowish , It might not be the best looking but is is safe for your eyes and renders a more accurate colors.
hoss_n2 said:
If you read what samsung say about its Dynamic Amoled panels you will understand why the white looks weird , they have implemented a Hardware blue light filter which filters the harmful blue light emissions that is why all new samsung displays show white a llitle yellowish , It might not be the best looking but is is safe for your eyes and renders a more accurate colors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the point of having that?
It's clearly inferior to my professional displays.
Proper calibration and white point is *everything*.
It does NOT look yellowish, it has too much green.
That looks horrible.
After using it for a day I cannot believe how much better my Mac, 11 Pro Max and S20 Ultra looks.
Can you please tell me if the screen isn't bright if adaptive mode is turned off? (120hz)
Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Brava27 said:
Can you please tell me if the screen isn't bright if adaptive mode is turned off? (120hz)
Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its significantly brighter with it off
mickeyleah said:
Its significantly brighter with it off
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Click to collapse
Yeah, that is what someone pointed out. Thanks
Compared to the Note 10+ it's significantly brighter even in 120Hz, and I often need to lower it even with the adaptive brightness on.
It's somewhere around 1/5 or 1/6th of the brightness bar.
So I've had the Note20 Ultra 512 GB since release last year. Image retention has always been there, but never resulted in burn in so I ignored that. However, now the screen uniformity is getting worse. The area around the fingerprint sensor and a rectangle about half an inch around the edges of the screen are a different darkness level. It's very visible on gray screens and medium colors at any brightness. I also have an S20+ that is not exhibiting any of the issues I see here. I remember having my Note 9 under neon lights and the half inch ring was noticeable, but could not be seen in normal lighting or dark environments. I was hoping to pass this phone to a family member when the S22 Ultra comes out, but I have concerns about screen longevity. Anyone else noticing this?
See this for an example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyNote20/comments/l0svom
The S22U is worse from what I'm seeing; a lot of display issues. Display just going black after a reboot or charge, whatever... dead as Zed.
Plus no SD card slot, no native spen and running on the dog OS Android 11. All that for a premium flagship price. Yes, well...
What brightness level are you running it at?
Use it in direct sunlight except occasionally for a few seconds?
I keep my N10+ at less than 50% about 99% of the time. I use dark mode and near black wallpaper. Minimum red icons. Mostly because I prefer not burning out my eyes but also OLED preservation. I use manual brightness control only.
At 2 years my heavily used 10+ shows no display degradation even compared to my new one.
See what you, use ScreenTest to make sure you actually have any changes with the display. You really shouldn't. If you been conservative with your brightness and you have degradation it's likely a design and/or manufacturing fubar.
Samsung runs hot and cold. This year has been a bad year for Samsung.
Next year isn't any better plus Android OS is tanking. Even if Samsung does manage to pull a Note out of their assets, I'll wait a year to buy it.
See what kind of feedback it's getting and if the Android OS completely turns into a sour green Apple
I punched out and went with a know good workhouse for the next 2-3 years. I just wasn't liking what I saw... and the 10+'s just keep on ticking.
blackhawk said:
What brightness level are you running it at?
Use it in direct sunlight except occasionally for a few seconds?
I keep my N10+ at less than 50% about 99% of the time. I use dark mode and near black wallpaper. Minimum red icons. Mostly because I prefer not burning out my eyes but also OLED preservation. I use manual brightness control only.
At 2 years my heavily used 10+ shows no display degradation even compared to my new one.
See what you, use ScreenTest to make sure you actually have any changes with the display. You really shouldn't. If you been conservative with your brightness and you have degradation it's likely a design and/or manufacturing fubar.
Samsung runs hot and cold. This year has been a bad year for Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using it at 40-50% brightness. The screen looks fine in decent lighting, but in a darker room I can see the shaded areas clearly. When using a light theme or pure black, everything looks great as well. I just find it odd how much more noticeable artifacts are on these screens than on the S20+ and Note 9.
Guyinlaca said:
Using it at 40-50% brightness. The screen looks fine in decent lighting, but in a darker room I can see the shaded areas clearly. When using a light theme or pure black, everything looks great as well. I just find it odd how much more noticeable artifacts are on these screens than on the S20+ and Note 9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not excessive...
The ScreenTest app will help you see what is degraded. Blue pixels tend to degrade first, red last.
is the original screen protector still on?
raul6 said:
is the original screen protector still on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The US models don't come with screen protectors. The glass has held up decently with only 2 tiny hairline scratches that are only visible in sunlight.
Guyinlaca said:
So I've had the Note20 Ultra 512 GB since release last year. Image retention has always been there, but never resulted in burn in so I ignored that. However, now the screen uniformity is getting worse. The area around the fingerprint sensor and a rectangle about half an inch around the edges of the screen are a different darkness level. It's very visible on gray screens and medium colors at any brightness. I also have an S20+ that is not exhibiting any of the issues I see here. I remember having my Note 9 under neon lights and the half inch ring was noticeable, but could not be seen in normal lighting or dark environments. I was hoping to pass this phone to a family member when the S22 Ultra comes out, but I have concerns about screen longevity. Anyone else noticing this?
See this for an example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyNote20/comments/l0svom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow I have exactly the same issue. Exactly the ring and rectangle above. I thought it was because of some image that created such a high contrast, but since you have the same issue then it's a hardware issue.
And it's only visible on some shades of grey. Not on black, not on white. So strange
since many devices have the same burn-in pattern, do you believe it has something to do with its internal components (rather than the display's pixels)?
Like the charging circuit for example?
This problem is getting much worse and is now visible at all times regardless of brightness. It likely will result in an unusable screen soon. I will try reaching out to Verizon and/or Samsung to get a resolution. This is totally unacceptable for a phone that only been used a little over a year. Here is what it looks like at 50% Brightness, and 10% Brightness. The Note 9 and 10 Plus lasted over 2 years with no such problems.