Database Info

We are idiots, not HTC!

Do you think when you buy a porsche or a ferrari and you can not drive because the wheel fell of or the windshield blew off in the middle of nowhere the factory tells you: oh sorry this a new model, you keep testing it and maybe if we get enough complaints we will fix it. NO!
When you pay top dollar you get a device that works out of the box,period.
HTC is using us as their testers, but makes us pay a 1000$ for it and lose our time perfecting a half-product they placed on the market before it should be released, plus the customer service treats us as idiots and lies directly : oh we got a lot of good feedback...(yeah right like I was going to call them to say how good a device is), or we dont know anything about a gps lag....f*uck you sit in the car a take a drive idiot!!
The last time I bought HTC!
Getting a nokia. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

So, what you're saying is HTC is just like Windows? ;-)

i agree htc brings out to many high tech phones.with a very high price tag.but there are always major bugs.no kinda of exception for a $900 usd phone that all of sudden does't have 3g.
now most us owners lost a good $300 of the price in less than a month because it doesn't support 3g.htc doesn't even say there working on a new radio.
i know apple brings out a new product every 90 days,at least they listen and stay with product updates.

zex11 said:
Do you think when you buy a porsche or a ferrari and you can not drive because the wheel fell of or the windshield blew off in the middle of nowhere the factory tells you: oh sorry this a new model, you keep testing it and maybe if we get enough complaints we will fix it. NO!
When you pay top dollar you get a device that works out of the box,period.
HTC is using us as their testers, but makes us pay a 1000$ for it and lose our time perfecting a half-product they placed on the market before it should be released, plus the customer service treats us as idiots and lies directly : oh we got a lot of good feedback...(yeah right like I was going to call them to say how good a device is), or we dont know anything about a gps lag....f*uck you sit in the car a take a drive idiot!!
The last time I bought HTC!
Getting a nokia. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Oh come on. Everyone knows that if you are an early adopter, things never work quite as they ought to. Happens with every major tech release. It shouldn't but it does.
The reality is that the majority of features on the TP work just fine and fortunately thanks to the geniuses on this forum, the GPS lag has been all but eliminated. No doubt at some point (provided we press HTC), a fix will be released.
So when you get your Nokia, you should look forward to a whole different set of problems - no platform is even close to perfect.

iboogey99 said:
i agree htc brings out to many high tech phones.with a very high price tag.but there are always major bugs.no kinda of exception for a $900 usd phone that all of sudden does't have 3g.
now most us owners lost a good $300 of the price in less than a month because it doesn't support 3g.htc doesn't even say there working on a new radio.
i know apple brings out a new product every 90 days,at least they listen and stay with product updates.
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This post I really can't agree with, when they released it they never intended it for North American sale, and you knew that when you bought it. Did you read the part in the specs where it said UMTS 900/2100? If you did, you should've said "hey, this doesn't work with 3G on AT&T... I'm not going to buy it." Why don't we blame Toyota for their Corolla not running on diesel? Oh yeah, because it was never meant to.

When I got my N95, the battery life was terrible, it kept running out of memory and i had to use hacks to bypass their silly protection and install unsigned apps. I also had to use nemesis suite to hack the device and change the product code to prevent it from loosing Greek when I used Nokia's updater to upgrade the firmware, which cannot be downgraded and now, newer devices and latest firmwares cannot be hacked yet, so if you do buy one you won't be able to install unsigned apps.
At least with HTCs we have this magnificent community to create custom ROMs and rectify most problems. Just my .2 cents

Hands down...best $1100 I've spent in a long time. I knew going into it that I wouldn't have 3G here in the US. The advantages I have over my T-Mobile Wing (US HTC Phone) is countless. I have minimal glitches, but with all phones that do more than make calls, it is to be expected. I'll be a beta tester anytime for HTC!

i totally agree with the OP,in other hand if the devices were perfect we would not have XDA devs
what 1 must realize in todays competitive markets things get rushed out the door to make a buck ,hence why all devices will be never out of beta stage. there is 2 solutions for the problem; 1- stop buying new devices .2- learn to live with it.

well the thing is that HTC doesent even want to realize that their devices have flaws. And all the flaws are software related. In other words fixable. just look at the TyTn2 and the driver issues there. There still is no fix from HTC. And people here on the forum had to use drivers from the Diamond to fix it. HTC just keeps on making excuses like the HTC Pro was never ment to be a multimedia device when support is confronted with the fact that the TP plays video poorer that the Diamond. I know that the pro istn a multimedia device. But i expect that the hardware that i have paid alot of money for actually does what its supposed to. Why on earth shouldnt it? I love my TP, but HTC should reallt take care of their reputation..

faria said:
i totally agree with the OP,in other hand if the devices were perfect we would not have XDA devs
what 1 must realize in todays competitive markets things get rushed out the door to make a buck ,hence why all devices will be never out of beta stage. there is 2 solutions for the problem; 1- stop buying new devices .2- learn to live with it.
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ey man nice to see you again here...
take care and hope everything will be nice for you and yours....
Cheers

I've been developing software for mobile devices for five years, and worked with hundreds of models of handset from Europe and North America. I'd rate HTC devices as "above average" in terms of quality. Nokia are neither better nor worse. Get the first Nokia models of a new series, you're in for some "fun".
I have a Nokia. The MP3 player causes the phone to reboot randomly. If I cross timezones, then when I get home, some birthdays in the calendar have moved to the wrong day. Sometimes, it suddenly stops working, saying that the "SIM Locked", and I can't make or receive calls until I reboot it. It's Orange branded, so the Nokia firmware update tool won't support it. Other than that, it works a treat...
I could give you a similar list of problems with other Nokia models, or Sony Ericssons, or Motorolas... and I wouldn't even consider a Samsung, NEC or LG.

And I suspect that anyone buying a Ferrari for the reliability will be sorely disappointed.

Kevven said:
well the thing is that HTC doesent even want to realize that their devices have flaws. And all the flaws are software related. In other words fixable. just look at the TyTn2 and the driver issues there. There still is no fix from HTC. And people here on the forum had to use drivers from the Diamond to fix it. HTC just keeps on making excuses like the HTC Pro was never ment to be a multimedia device when support is confronted with the fact that the TP plays video poorer that the Diamond. I know that the pro istn a multimedia device. But i expect that the hardware that i have paid alot of money for actually does what its supposed to. Why on earth shouldnt it? I love my TP, but HTC should reallt take care of their reputation..
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and they will never fix that issue because their attention is in the new devices...sad but true.
@jcespi2005
thanks! and the same to you and yours.nice to see you here

It seems to me that what's getting under your skin the most is that customer service is saying their aren't serious problems, and that the phone is primarily working as intended.
Well, thats their job. Have you not ever seen a CSC in person at a corporate office? It's a bunch of highschool grads who don't know anything about anything that just talk nice, create a ticket in whatever helpdesk software they are using, and forward it or close it.
Just call in, politely state your problem, and if they get enough calls logged, development takes notice and things get fixed.
I think what you need more than an $1100 phone, is a $20.00 script for Xanax. Best of luck with Nokia though.

Mobile phone manufacturer in 'not everything works properly' shocker.
Our brand new Audi had a digital display that was on the blink from the moment we bought it. And sometimes the front windows would lower themselves 6 inches after you'd locked the car and walked away. Lots of other owners had the same thing. Think Audi fixed it? Fixed any of them? The replacement Porsche (I'm not showing off here by the way) has an lumpy idle, unreliable horn and the steering pulls harshly to the left. Fixes from Porsche? As if.
In common with a previous poster, my experience with Nokias was far more frustrating than with HTC. And if you want diabolical, allow me a few hours to relate my experience of being the fairly happy owner of a Sony Ericsson P800 even happier with the P900 and then to be floored by the abomination that was the P910. Never never again.
Yes mobile phone manufacturers are guilty of getting things wrong, but in that knowlege, I'm just happy I own an HTC and know about this forum.

rb14 said:
I'm just happy I own an HTC and know about this forum.
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I second that statement!

rb14 said:
Mobile phone manufacturer in 'not everything works properly' shocker.
Our brand new Audi had a digital display that was on the blink from the moment we bought it. And sometimes the front windows would lower themselves 6 inches after you'd locked the car and walked away. Lots of other owners had the same thing. Think Audi fixed it? Fixed any of them? The replacement Porsche (I'm not showing off here by the way) has an lumpy idle, unreliable horn and the steering pulls harshly to the left. Fixes from Porsche? As if.
In common with a previous poster, my experience with Nokias was far more frustrating than with HTC. And if you want diabolical, allow me a few hours to relate my experience of being the fairly happy owner of a Sony Ericsson P800 even happier with the P900 and then to be floored by the abomination that was the P910. Never never again.
Yes mobile phone manufacturers are guilty of getting things wrong, but in that knowlege, I'm just happy I own an HTC and know about this forum.
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Amen to that brother. While I may not own the Touch Pro, Fuze, or whatever the hell you feel like calling it, I know for me personally, HTC has put out some of the best phones I've ever used. I remember way back when, I was in love the Moto Razr (ew, I know) but then I laid eyes on the good ol' boy that was the Cingular 8125 aka the Wizard. I've been hooked on HTC ever since. Lets face it, if you try to go back to a cheesy ass LG or Samsung phone, you're going to be disappointed as all hell. They just don't compare to the customizable nature of the WinMo HTC devices. Granted pretty much all of HTC phones have had (and still have) their share of issues, but lets get real here, they are simply the ****. I've had my 8525 since its release and there's no way I'd switch to the X1 for example. SE?? Would you rather have a WinMo rookie in SE or the season veteran that is HTC? I don't know about you guys, but I like experience.

thunda_chunky said:
I don't know about you guys, but I like experience.
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experience in what? deploying bugs?
@zex11 I agree with you.. but we don't have so many alternatives in WM area.
and nokia is not the solution..

Theutus said:
I think what you need more than an $1100 phone, is a $20.00 script for Xanax. Best of luck with Nokia though.
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Put this in my sig, legendary. haha

Hopefully when Microsoft gets off their lazy asses and overhauls the OS, it will be easier for the manufactures to make a reliable device.

[Q] Is the DVP really that bad of a device?

I have an HD2 that I've used Mango on, and I do have to say that I enjoy it. But I always seem to find posts cropping up that the DVP is old, and that is just isn't that good anymore, and that you shouldn't spend the money on it unlocked or on contract. I realize that the hardware in the DVP is dated, and would be a "sidegrade" from my HD2, but the main appeal I have for it is that I want to get off the 80 dollar contracted plan on T-Mobile, and use their 60 dollar unlimited talk, text, and data plan on an unsubsidized phone.
The T-Mobile DVP can be found for 240$ bucks new right now...so I mean, what's really the big deal? I think that's a fair price considering the storage you get(8GB) and the premium build of the handset. Is the battery life decent with Mango now?
More reasons that I just happen to be attracted to the DVP include that it has a reasonably large screen with a keyboard. Most unlocked handsets are typically 3.7, 3.8, which don't get me wrong I'm sure there is a great market for those sizes, but I just find that anything less than 4.0 is too small. And the unlocked Titans are overly expensive in my personal opinion. Considering the Lumia will be AT&T exclusive...well that's just another problem. AT&T charges more and you get less than with a carrier such as T-Mobile.
What are your guys' thoughts and opinions?

I know there was one WP faithful who had his DVP as his sig and he seemed to love it. Cannot remember his name now. But on the other hand I have heard complaints. Here is a nightmare article.
If the DVP is going to run $240 unlocked, then why not look at your options? HTC Radar or the Lumia 710?

Im not really a fan of their screen sizes.

I always thought it to be the best looking of the first gen phones.
Never used it though.

There's some good advice here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1473143

Since Mango, there really aren't any issues other than a few missing features:
-No compass support
-No Internet sharing
And then, there's not too much developer support at the moment, so there's no way to Interop unlock it.
But the major issues, like those mentioned in the article linked above, don't exist anymore.
Personally, I'll be using my DVP until someone else comes out with a Windows Phone with a portrait QWERTY.

Mind me asking where did you find them for $240?
Sent from my MIUI.us Sensation 4G using XDA App

Its certainly not a bad device, as long as you get one that doesn't have any of the issues that a lot of people seem to experience. Its a solidly built, unique, first-gen Windows Phone device.
Great for someone who just wants a device that works with no bells or whistles (aside from the great portrait keyboard).
If you are looking for a device to mess around with (unlock/ROMs/registry/etc.) then its probably not the best choice since there is little to no development work or support for the device itself.
There are other choices available, and better ones, considering that gen-two devices are out right now.
Still hard to beat that price though.

prjkthack said:
Its certainly not a bad device, as long as you get one that doesn't have any of the issues that a lot of people seem to experience. Its a solidly built, unique, first-gen Windows Phone device.
Great for someone who just wants a device that works with no bells or whistles (aside from the great portrait keyboard).
If you are looking for a device to mess around with (unlock/ROMs/registry/etc.) then its probably not the best choice since there is little to no development work or support for the device itself.
There are other choices available, and better ones, considering that gen-two devices are out right now.
Still hard to beat that price though.
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the 9 dollar chevron unlock supports Mango, i think it would work with the DVP which would allow xap sideloading, right?

Dajinn said:
the 9 dollar chevron unlock supports Mango, i think it would work with the DVP which would allow xap sideloading, right?
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You mean the $9 Chevron unlock that's sold out?

ffff.......

Dajinn said:
the 9 dollar chevron unlock supports Mango, i think it would work with the DVP which would allow xap sideloading, right?
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Sideloading XAPs is one thing. You can do that with any phone by simply paying the $100 for an AppHub account and getting an official developer unlock.
But to be able to do more (interop or full unlock), you're gonna need a device that has some people using it, and unfortunately, the DVP is not one of those devices. And with little help from Dell, you won't get much support in the future for the device either.

Future Samsung Purchases

This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.

I was aware of it. The seller I bought it from does care about these matters. I bought as it as a learning experience. I sure aren't trying to start any arguments or fights. I was just hoping it could be discussed normally.

scott14719 said:
How do you interpret that as smugness? Did you not see the emoticons in my post?
Actually this is the kind of thread people start that are only looking for arguments. It adds nothing to the community. However, I understand your frustration with Samsung and I am sure others feel the same way. But don't think it's OK to post your opinion about a subject and it isn't OK for others to do the same. Not everyone's opinion is going to be the same as yours and creating a thread like this invites ALL opinions on the matter. That is why it's better to not make them in the first place.
Personally (again, my opinion), I knew the phone had a locked boot loader when I bought it. So I am sorry you were lied to about it.
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No, I didn't see the emoticons. I guess I wasn't expecting your response. Sorry!

Your best bet is to stop buying AT&T contracts, as it's they who request for the lock and it's not like Samsung is gonna turn down millions of dollars because a couple thousand modders disagree :/

sholsten said:
This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.
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wait for the lg optimus g2 or the moto x. those phones look amazing. they might come with an unlocked bootloader. i was just pondering this the other day. ive only purchased two new phones that were not samsung in my smartphone history. that was the iphone 4s (which i traded for a skyrocket) and the htc surround (wanted to give wp7 a shot). ive had other htcs and one sony. but they were craigslist deals. my next phone is most likely going to be the g2 or moto x. i think its about time for me to give someone else a fair shot.

Thermalwolf said:
Your best bet is to stop buying AT&T contracts, as it's they who request for the lock and it's not like Samsung is gonna turn down millions of dollars because a couple thousand modders disagree :/
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I don't have an AT&T contract. ST is cheaper per month.

sholsten said:
This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.
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I think that the S4 has made me a heretic in XDA's eyes. The stock experience, especially after this update, has been marvelous. I've had a bunch of Android devices since 2010 and this is the first time that I think futzing around with custom ROMs is mostly useless. Sure, it's locked down, but it works great. I just shake my head seeing bug reports on the dev threads and wonder why an end user would want to cripple functionality on one of the best phones yet.
Anyway, maybe I got most of the flashing out of my system with my Nexus One and then later with the hooptie Viewsonic gTab 10.1. I think now that the platform is maturing and devices become even more complex, flashing homebrew ROMs will start to fall out of style.
Just my BTC .02, though. I'd like to see amateur/recreactional custom Android development to continue to thrive, though--perhaps on the next to wave of wearable computing and the like. I just want my bling phone to work as advertised.
Er, sorry for droning on.

burhanistan said:
I think that the S4 has made me a heretic in XDA's eyes. The stock experience, especially after this update, has been marvelous. I've had a bunch of Android devices since 2010 and this is the first time that I think futzing around with custom ROMs is mostly useless. Sure, it's locked down, but it works great. I just shake my head seeing bug reports on the dev threads and wonder why an end user would want to cripple functionality on one of the best phones yet.
Anyway, maybe I got most of the flashing out of my system with my Nexus One and then later with the hooptie Viewsonic gTab 10.1. I think now that the platform is maturing and devices become even more complex, flashing homebrew ROMs will start to fall out of style.
Just my BTC .02, though. I'd like to see amateur/recreactional custom Android development to continue to thrive, though--perhaps on the next to wave of wearable computing and the like. I just want my bling phone to work as advertised.
Er, sorry for droning on.
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No. Thanks for your input. I have a whole another perspective now.

burhanistan said:
I think that the S4 has made me a heretic in XDA's eyes. The stock experience, especially after this update, has been marvelous. I've had a bunch of Android devices since 2010 and this is the first time that I think futzing around with custom ROMs is mostly useless. Sure, it's locked down, but it works great. I just shake my head seeing bug reports on the dev threads and wonder why an end user would want to cripple functionality on one of the best phones yet.
Anyway, maybe I got most of the flashing out of my system with my Nexus One and then later with the hooptie Viewsonic gTab 10.1. I think now that the platform is maturing and devices become even more complex, flashing homebrew ROMs will start to fall out of style.
Just my BTC .02, though. I'd like to see amateur/recreactional custom Android development to continue to thrive, though--perhaps on the next to wave of wearable computing and the like. I just want my bling phone to work as advertised.
Er, sorry for droning on.
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You know to be honest I hope your right. Custom roms and XDA were never really ment for the normal person. Only for those that wished to learn to do development and programing. With Android flashing a device became the cool thing to do. Now we see less real development then ever. So I really hope your right.
Wayne Tech Nexus

zelendel said:
You know to be honest I hope your right. Custom roms and XDA were never really ment for the normal person. Only for those that wished to learn to do development and programing. With Android flashing a device became the cool thing to do. Now we see less real development then ever. So I really hope your right.
Wayne Tech Nexus
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I couldn't have said it any better. It won't be long til we see roms named "swag" or "#yolo" or even named "freelilwayne". Everyone just expects everything to work 100% with no development. All I see are now spammers for apps and themes or someone asking why something doesn't work even though there are 48 other threads about it. I miss the old XDA.
Sent from my SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

toxicpaulution said:
I couldn't have said it any better. It won't be long til we see roms named "swag" or "#yolo" or even named "freelilwayne". Everyone just expects everything to work 100% with no development. All I see are now spammers for apps and themes or someone asking why something doesn't work even though there are 48 other threads about it. I miss the old XDA.
Sent from my SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
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The Q & A section in this forum is nearly unusable. There are a few legitimate threads, but almost exclusively it is filled with the same (sometimes noob) crap over and over again all because they are too lazy to do a little searching and reading. And like you said, several of the same questions (that have already been answered) all on the first page or two. Sometimes it's not even the noobs doing it. And that's not taking into consideration the multitudes of the same types of posts (needless questions) being posted in the General section. So I agree, there should be some type of test(s) that people need to pass before they can even enter XDA at this point.

sholsten said:
I don't have an AT&T contract. ST is cheaper per month.
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I mean don't buy anything branded from AT&T or Verizon or any carrier whose device is locked. If you went with the T-Mobile model you wouldn't have been locked down.

Honestly I felt the same way initially. Then I asked myself what Android company am I going to buy then?
HTC - they typically have locked boot loaders (though the One does not)
Moto - Nope always locked and they don't make any cool phones right now.
LG - locked typically
Sony - wouldn't know since they have like No US phones.
So would I rather pay $600 for a phone with boot loader unlocked or $200 for a locked one, I pick the $200. I am assuming must people would also.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app

My take; I have had AT&T locked phones in the past and usually someone finds a way to either hack the bootloader or make a bypass, it just takes a lot more time. Still fun to have the phone and customize. Then I've also paid the big dollars and bought the international version unlocked phone. It was great because of lots of customizing, and support however if you run into a warranty issue you are screwed. Unless you know someone in the country your phone came from. I have an international SGS3 but a couple small glitches in the graphics and the worry of the bad system board that causes the instant black screen of death (or whatever it was) I started looking at the S4. I was ready to buy another international phone but it came down to features and actual function. I wanted 4G LTE. Well back when I bought the S3 there were 2 international SGS3 phones. I bought the one with LTE first (9305) turns out the frequencies the phone runs for 3G+ did not work with AT&T in the US. I had to sell it on eBay, forget having LTE, lose a gig of Ram and get the 9300. Then I decided about going back to AT&T and get S4 because I would be covered under warranty and I get all the features that are going to work where I live. Cool thing is its the same hardware as the 9505 so there's still quite a bit of customizing with the SGH-I337. For me it will come down to the features and what works for me in my area. I learned the hard way with the SGS3. Frequencies and no warranty.
Sent from my GT-I9505 converted SGH-I337

sholsten said:
This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.
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just buy a canadian version, they have identical hardware and you will know will have full compatibility with american wireless networks

I feel cheated. I paid $650 out of contract to AT&T for this phone coming from a iPhone, a locked platform I was getting tired of, especially with Jailbreaking becoming harder on it, for the reason to "play" with my phone. With a locked bootloader, and a carrier locked, I cannot do that.
In the world of DRM losing ground you would think they would learn? Moto dropping their locked boot loaders... DRM being removed from Google Play Music and iTunes... people are sick of it adding complication to their lives. I had a P3113 Galaxy Tab 2 7" WiFi only and loved it because of how open it was. Currently running CM10.1.2 on it. Yet their phones are so locked down.
It's not entirely Samsung's fault. AT&T requests a locked bootloader. Samsung provides. A bug around it is found, Samsung has to patch it from a security standpoint. Not their fault. However with the popularity of this phone they could have easily said "No locked bootloaders" and shoved it down AT&T and other carriers throats if they had the balls to do it.

WoodburyMan said:
I feel cheated. I paid $650 out of contract to AT&T for this phone coming from a iPhone, a locked platform I was getting tired of, especially with Jailbreaking becoming harder on it, for the reason to "play" with my phone. With a locked bootloader, and a carrier locked, I cannot do that.
In the world of DRM losing ground you would think they would learn? Moto dropping their locked boot loaders... DRM being removed from Google Play Music and iTunes... people are sick of it adding complication to their lives. I had a P3113 Galaxy Tab 2 7" WiFi only and loved it because of how open it was. Currently running CM10.1.2 on it. Yet their phones are so locked down.
It's not entirely Samsung's fault. AT&T requests a locked bootloader. Samsung provides. A bug around it is found, Samsung has to patch it from a security standpoint. Not their fault. However with the popularity of this phone they could have easily said "No locked bootloaders" and shoved it down AT&T and other carriers throats if they had the balls to do it.
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They were not gonna miss out on the millions of devices sold just for the .1% of people that mode the device. That is why they came out with the GE versions.
Wayne Tech Nexus

zelendel said:
They were not gonna miss out on the millions of devices sold just for the .1% of people that mode the device. That is why they came out with the GE versions.
Wayne Tech Nexus
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True enough. Had I known about the Google Edition I would have waited a bit. If I really wanted I could buy it and sell my current SGH-I337 for a little less than I bought it for. However I kinda wanted to retain the ability to run full Touchwiz / Stock based roms easily.
I'm still happy as I am now running CM10.1 on my phone, and running Goldeneye ROM if I want a stock full Touchwiz ROM. Flash AMF3 model.. and keeping my AMDL Odin package safe. Just had I bought the phone with AMF3 on it I would be totally turned off and be unusable for me because of patched Loki.

personally, i mod or mess with everything. camera rigs i do myself, computers i build myself. cars i mod (and have rebuilt one with help) myself. my house i work on or change.
it is a fundamental hallmark of humanity that we change our environment and create or modify tools around us to suit our needs. so flashing ROMs or trying to customize or even just tinker with these devices is, in my opinion, simply an extension of what it means to be human, to create, express, and change. anything that limits that creativity is a bad thing IMO.
this is where locked bootloaders, fragmentation, and endless carrier variants become bad things, and where i do like apples' approach; one nearly universal product (hardware wise other than LTE/GSM/CDMA or storage size). However, apple is horrible for locked down software.
i will always root/unlock my phones as long as that is possible, because i can. i will always build my own computers, because i can. and i will always drive stick and for sure it wont be stock either; because i can.

Thermalwolf said:
I mean don't buy anything branded from AT&T or Verizon or any carrier whose device is locked. If you went with the T-Mobile model you wouldn't have been locked down.
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Thanks. I didn't realize T-mobile wasn't locked. I wish I'd known when I bought mine.
I wonder if things will stay the same on near new models like the Note 3.

[DISSCUSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders bringing US development to an end?

Opinions from different perspectives are most welcome but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thank you...

Where did you get this news? please share more details about this.

engineerd2 said:
Where did you get this news? please share more details about this.
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It is not news per se. And not meaning to be flip it is a simply a question brought on by the observation of facts as they present themselfs.

My 2 cents
numbR7 said:
Opinions from different perspectives are most welcome but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thank you...
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I don't think carriers are locking boot loaders to hinder development, in a strict sense. I believe they're doing it to force people to upgrade their devices more often, in order to gain any new innovations from OS upgrades. Take a look at the Samsung Infuse, a phone which was orphaned almost from the time of it's release. Thanks to a developer named Scott Hart, you can run kitkat 4.4 on it. If people hold on to their phones longer, profits go down.

rgrbckr said:
I don't think carriers are locking boot loaders to. hinder development, in a strict sense. I believe they're doing it to force people to upgrade their devices more often, in order to gain any new innovations from OS upgrades. Take a look at the Samsung Infuse, a phone which was orphaned almost from the time of it's release. Thanks to a developer named Scott Hart, you can run kitkat 4.4 on it. If people hold on to their phones longer, profits go down.
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I take your point and it's a good one. I do not know-for sure-the reasoning behind it just the result. Ironically, I do know that the majoritu of innovation-in my view-have come from xda members saving these carriers a lot of money in R&D. I remember loading CM on a tiny little phone a few years ago to get innvations that are now incorporated standard on most phones.
I would say it's interesting that I am continuously reminded what a small insignificant percentage xda members make up -- interestingly to argue diametrically opposed views.

numbR7 said:
I take your point and it's a good one. I do not know-for sure-the reasoning behind it just the result. Ironically, I do know that the majoritu of innovation-in my view-have come from xda members saving these carriers a lot of money in R&D. I remember loading CM on a tiny little phone a few years ago to get innvations that are now incorporated standard on most phones.
I would say it's interesting that I am continuously reminded what a small insignificant percentage xda members make up -- interestingly to argue diametrically opposed views.
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@NumbrR7: I second your point. I think that really grates (angers) me that most of the "new" phones are mostly incremental updates (i.e. better camera, updated OS). On another note, Oppo (based in mainland China) is gaining a niche for themselves because, from what I understand and read, the OS is developer-friendly and comes factory unlocked out of the box. USA carriers won't let that happen -- oh the horror. <rolling eyes>
Again, I affirm your position on this, numbR7.
XDA rules!

sameog said:
@NumbrR7: USA carriers won't let that happen -- oh the horror. <rolling eyes>
XDA rules!
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Corporate greed and capitalism. Having said that, I disagree, to some extent, with their line of thinking. I have the galaxy s, s2, s3, s4, s5 , and note3. I have had a custom Rom on every single device up until the s5 and the note. Rooting and updating to the latest OS only made me want the new hardware even more. But alas, I too think it might be fading. When it does, I think the opposite will happen, and I will hang on to my device longer. I am already thinking of going back to the s4 with Shostock on it, for my daily phone.

Poke01 said:
Corporate greed and capitalism. Having said that, I disagree, to some extent, with their line of thinking. I have the galaxy s, s2, s3, s4, s5 , and note3. I have had a custom Rom on every single device up until the s5 and the note. Rooting and updating to the latest OS only made me want the new hardware even more. But alas, I too think it might be fading. When it does, I think the opposite will happen, and I will hang on to my device longer. I am already thinking of going back to the s4 with Shostock on it, for my daily phone.
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I don't exactly agree with your first sentence (but it's worth discussion on a different type forum). That said. Your point is otherwise very well taken. You may get a new feature (maybe a new fade) but lose everthing else (that the freedom of controlling your own device gives you) suddenly that extra megapixel or two doesn't seem worth $650. Yep I'm sure of it! I think you have a really good point. I know it's a tad different but I choose to stick with Hyperdrive 15 (4.3) to avoid the hassles with SS and 4.4. That is NOT to say that I am bad mouthing SS. To the contrary, it's saved my behind. Hows that for nice language? Lol

Scott's still going with the Infuse?! Good on him! I loved that little phone. If it weren't for the problems with the video camera, I'd still be using it.
Well, this might rub some the wrong way but if all carriers started locking their bootloaders and forced buyers to choose based on hardware alone, I'd buy an iPhone. I love the little innovations that have come with an open Android - like Paranoid Android - but the hardware is usually underwhelming. The S4 has the screen going for it, but that's it. Apparently Apple will finally use larger screens on their iPhones so not much win for Samsung.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Wyzpopper said:
Scott's still going with the Infuse?! Good on him! I loved that little phone. If it weren't for the problems with the video camera, I'd still be using it.
Well, this might rub some the wrong way but if all carriers started locking their bootloaders and forced buyers to choose based on hardware alone, I'd buy an iPhone. I love the little innovations that have come with an open Android - like Paranoid Android - but the hardware is usually underwhelming. The S4 has the screen going for it, but that's it. Apparently Apple will finally use larger screens on their iPhones so not much win for Samsung.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
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I think you're right especially if the screen is bumped up. With the bootloader situation you already have an "i-droid" anyway. "Open source" no longer has meaning.

Hopefully this will accelerate the people looking at buying much cheaper phones that aren't locked to any specific carrier and also aren't boot locked. The effectiveness of upgrades is dimishing which should help push this shift and hopefully will ultimately keep these big phone manufacturers honest.

bnolsen said:
Hopefully this will accelerate the people looking at buying much cheaper phones that aren't locked to any specific carrier and also aren't boot locked. The effectiveness of upgrades is dimishing which should help push this shift and hopefully will ultimately keep these big phone manufacturers honest.
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I've already looked into those "cheaper" phones. Most of them, right now, anyway, don't have LTE chipsets yet. In addition, 4G just rolled out in China (we get the new stuff first -- obviously). However, the cheaper phones are made and shipped factory unlocked. Some phones have a dual sim slots (i.e. one sim for personal, one sim for business).
I'm partnered up with a wholesaler and have access to everything he carries. The best part is that he doesn't "compete" with whom he partners up with -- bad for business, he says.
My .02 =)

as others have said it's just the way of big business in the 21st century. up until a week ago i had a 2 year old S2 which was running a 4.4.2 ROM (ressurection remix). if i hadnt been able to root and flash a ROM i'd have probably got myself a new phone long ago so locking down phones may get customers to upgrade more often (i know it would with me) as it is i bought my new phone outright and have gone payg to save myself some money and also to be able to upgrade as and when i like. i did look at some of the chinese phones (goophone being one) but wasnt sure of the root capabilities so decided to give it a miss.
i think even locked bootloaders will eventually be hacked. nothing is impossible. it's just down to when and how long we wait.

I took a brief reprieve from this forum, since there wasn't any groundbreaking progress made (and by "groundbreaking", I mean exploited bootloader).
It looks as if that has remained unchanged? I've only had the S4 for a year now, but I am officially "over" Samsung devices. Very aesthetically pleasing, but hardly functional overall. Battery is crap on every Samsung device, and the only thing that ever helped me was either buying a 3rd party with larger capacity, and/or running a custom ROM/kernel combo that allows for both less consumption as well as rapid-charge.
I'm interested to see this new thing Google is going to unveil to replace the GPE phones. I have no issue paying full price for a device that I can do whatever I want with, and know that there will be a strong following for. Even if that following is only a certain, small niche of the overall market.
It's a shame that my fun with AOSP had to come to a screeching halt, I loved the simplicity and functionality of it.

I don't think carriers make much or any money from selling new hardware. They make their money from plans.
That said, I'm happy to be on 4.4.2 SlimRom. ☺

disturbd1 said:
I took a brief reprieve from this forum, since there wasn't any groundbreaking progress made (and by "groundbreaking", I mean exploited bootloader).
It looks as if that has remained unchanged? I've only had the S4 for a year now, but I am officially "over" Samsung devices. Very aesthetically pleasing, but hardly functional overall. Battery is crap on every Samsung device, and the only thing that ever helped me was either buying a 3rd party with larger capacity, and/or running a custom ROM/kernel combo that allows for both less consumption as well as rapid-charge.
I'm interested to see this new thing Google is going to unveil to replace the GPE phones. I have no issue paying full price for a device that I can do whatever I want with, and know that there will be a strong following for. Even if that following is only a certain, small niche of the overall market.
It's a shame that my fun with AOSP had to come to a screeching halt, I loved the simplicity and functionality of it.
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Well, even if I sold my i337, the battery life was honestly very good for me. There's the facts that maybe I don't use it heavily every day, but I turn GPS on only when I have to find a specific place I haven't been to before. GPS down - battery life up. 3G down, unless I need it - battery life up. Power saving mode - battery life up.
As for the Android Silver program, we all are curious to see how will this turn out.

Nokia smartphones have been SECRETLY sending users' personal data to China

Go Nokia,
now i understand why you do not allow unlocking the bootlocker.
Screwed us all along!
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/nokia-smartphones-been-secretly-sending-14167303

reist said:
Go Nokia,
now i understand why you do not allow unlocking the bootlocker.
Screwed us all along!
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/nokia-smartphones-been-secretly-sending-14167303
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Same thing is sent to Google servers even if we have location enabled. Could this be connected with China GPS system Baidou? I think we should be more open minded and take more attention to Google and cookies handling

miljenko said:
Same thing is sent to Google servers even if we have location enabled. Could this be connected with China GPS system Baidou? I think we should be more open minded and take more attention to Google and cookies handling
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The problem is that, when the data are sent to Google, you agreed to that. Not in the case with China servers.

aPosix said:
The problem is that, when the data are sent to Google, you agreed to that. Not in the case with China servers.
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That text in Mirror sounded as continuations of the paranoia regarding Russia and China. It could be true, it could be false, but for sure somebody is gathering info on us by cellphone,mostly US companies. If you need to be anonimus avoid all modern ways of communication. I don't give a crap if they gather info on my location and phone numbers, they can be only jealous where I am :laugh:

miljenko said:
That text in Mirror sounded as continuations of the paranoia regarding Russia and China. It could be true, it could be false, but for sure somebody is gathering info on us by cellphone,mostly US companies. If you need to be anonimus avoid all modern ways of communication. I don't give a crap if they gather info on my location and phone numbers, they can be only jealous where I am :laugh:
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You misinterpreted my thought. I don't care all the data they gather about me.
But on the outside you "should be able to agree or decline" the data collection.

Never buying another Nokia phone again. The situation with the bootloader being unlockable officially was the last straw. By the time they allowed it with Nokia 8 the xda community had already moved on now almost 2 years after its release nobody has bothered to create a custom rom for it, all because of HMD. Nokia 7plus is gonna suffer the same way even though it has huge potential.

MDV106 said:
Never buying another Nokia phone again. The situation with the bootloader being unlockable officially was the last straw. By the time they allowed it with Nokia 8 the xda community had already moved on now almost 2 years after its release nobody has bothered to create a custom rom for it, all because of HMD. Nokia 7plus is gonna suffer the same way even though it has huge potential.
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Yeah, maybe you should buy a pixel then (3x the price though)?
Or maybe a OnePlus (Chinese also!). Mi A2?
What about a good ol' Samsung? My friend's s8 just got it's first update to Pie (still 'fresh' after half an year), not to mention Knox on top of locked bootloader!
I am not saying it was ok what happend, but was just a mistake with a batch of phones (also maybe that is why all this mess with 2 versions of updates for international model).
Except the pixels and essential phones, I do not think any other phone is with security patch up to Feb.

trveller72 said:
Yeah, maybe you should buy a pixel then (3x the price though)?
Or maybe a OnePlus (Chinese also!). Mi A2?
What about a good ol' Samsung? My friend's s8 just got it's first update to Pie (still 'fresh' after half an year), not to mention Knox on top of locked bootloader!
I am not saying it was ok what happend, but was just a mistake with a batch of phones (also maybe that is why all this mess with 2 versions of updates for international model).
Except the pixels and essential phones, I do not think any other phone is with security patch up to Feb.
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So not allowing the bootloaders to be unlocked is just another mistake huh? Stop making excuses for Nokia