Database Info

I'm stuck

Hi guys,
for some reason after I did update to KangVIP I can't get rid off it. Besides I got no wifi and bt and I was going to start over with b023 as suggested but at this point I wont bother anymore.
I did wipe the system, I did advanced wipe using twrp but no matter what I do none of the stock firmwares are going through however the Kanga one always goes through.(KangaVIP goes through only in TWRP)
twrp 2.8.7.0
wipe
advanced wipe
I select all the partitions
mkdosfs process ended with error=1
unable to wipe /usb
unknown mtp message type: 1
unable to wipe /usb
I go back, restart to fastboot, (device is saying there is no OS installed), I restore the recovery, create dload folder on my sdcard, put there 028 (actually I tried all of them already), volume+ volume - power and I get error.
What am I missing ?
Anyone can help ?
Thanks in advance.
Eric

First you did a OTA from B029 to B209?
If so you are now on a Android 6 ROM you cant go back to Android 5 without a Rollback from Huawei.

Hirs_E_Fruit said:
First you did a OTA from B029 to B209?
If so you are now on a Android 6 ROM you cant go back to Android 5 without a Rollback from Huawei.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I did then I wiped everything and started with b028 again.
Same thing, wifi didn't work same with BT.
Wipe again and this time I did local update and since the local update I can't go back not even b029.

77Eric77 said:
Yes I did then I wiped everything and started with b028 again.
Same thing, wifi didn't work same with BT.
Wipe again and this time I did local update and since the local update I can't go back not even b029.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right now you are on a Android 5 or Android 6 ROM?
If you on a Android 5 ROM you can force update a Complete ROM to install a clean system and try if everything works.

Hirs_E_Fruit said:
Right now you are on a Android 5 or Android 6 ROM?
If you on a Android 5 ROM you can force update a Complete ROM to install a clean system and try if everything works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm stuck on 6.0
I know I can do force update on 5.0 I said it above I just can't do it with 6.0 -> b029, only with your rom.

Anyone else is having this issue ?
The Kanga rom got a quite few problems no wifi and not BT, Google play services crashing (this can be fixed with gapps) my co worker just tried it with his own methods and same issue. After I went through the whole Kanga thread 60% of the posters got problems most of them are ignored.

I don't have any problems but I think the people with problems are people who have a DAV 701L.

Hirs_E_Fruit said:
Right now you are on a Android 5 or Android 6 ROM?
If you on a Android 5 ROM you can force update a Complete ROM to install a clean system and try if everything works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hirs_E_Fruit said:
I don't have any problems but I think the people with problems are people who have a DAV 701L.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got DAV-703L, just simple question, why is the wifi and bt not working ?
When I get into Kanga I can remove the root or deny access to it is there a way to ditch it ?
Yeah I know it's working for you and it's not working for 10 other people including 703L owners. There is something wrong with the rom no doubt about it.

77Eric77 said:
I got DAV-703L, just simple question, why is the wifi and bt not working ?
When I get into Kanga I can remove the root or deny access to it is there a way to ditch it ?
Yeah I know it's working for you and it's not working for 10 other people including 703L owners. There is something wrong with the rom no doubt about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there was an error while flashing and without a full clean Rom flash i can't see a solution.
Before I got it to work I flashed it more than 3 times and everytime everything worked so I think don't think the ROM is that bugged.

Hirs_E_Fruit said:
I think there was an error while flashing and without a full clean Rom flash i can't see a solution.
Before I got it to work I flashed it more than 3 times and everytime everything worked so I think don't think the ROM is that bugged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The first rom you introduced is working "fine" I get the wifi and bt no problem but once I switch into the latest build it's gone.
Any idea where can I get full clean Rom ?
This one is a no go http://www.needrom.com/download/p8max-dav-703l/

I managed to rollback to 5.1.1 but when I try to force flash it, it says it's not compatible.

If you don't update properly to B209, when you flash any B209 rom you are going to run into issues such as the wireless Bluetooth and sim card switching for some. If you properly updated the dload method should have completed successfully. Look at the kernel and radio version of B209 in About phone and compare it to others and see if they match.

ajsmsg78 said:
If you don't update properly to B209, when you flash any B209 rom you are going to run into issues such as the wireless Bluetooth and sim card switching for some. If you properly updated the dload method should have completed successfully. Look at the kernel and radio version of B209 in About phone and compare it to others and see if they match.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to use your rom even if you removed the Chinese it's still inside the system. Boot load times take much longer. Unexpected crashes. I did try it on 4 phones with OTA and local updates 2 are working but the Kang does crash twice a day minimum.
All what I'm asking is how to restore it to it's original settings, this was my worst mistake ever.
What I'm trying to say if I do something I do it properly just look at your thread 85% failure ratio that doesn't look like it was done properly does it ?

77Eric77 said:
I don't want to use your rom even if you removed the Chinese it's still inside the system. Boot load times take much longer. Unexpected crashes. I did try it on 4 phones with OTA and local updates 2 are working but the Kang does crash twice a day minimum.
All what I'm asking is how to restore it to it's original settings, this was my worst mistake ever.
What I'm trying to say if I do something I do it properly just look at your thread 85% failure ratio that doesn't look like it was done properly does it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really dude?? No worries, it will be the last time I do anything for the P8Max. Maybe you should just sell the phone since you're having all sorts of issues with it....or maybe you should have left it totally stock then. Or maybe read through the Mediapad X2 forums because the two phones are very similar.

Phone powers off after flashing CAF based ROMS no boot.

Hi guy,
I have been trying to figure this out for a while now and can't seam to figure it out. Everytime I flash a CAF based ROM after clicking reboot the phone turns off. During this time it is very hard to get the phone to turn back on. Holding the power button does not seam to do anything. I have to hold the power+volup+voldown for around 30 seconds let go and do it again in order to get back into recovery. I am not getting any errors at all when flashing. I really have no clue what it could be. I have tried every CAF based ROM I have come across here and they all do it. The only thing I can come up with is my phone has had the screen, camera, and battery replaced. Could one of these parts or another part be causing a problem that doesn't allow CAF based ROMS to work? I know its a long shot but thats all I can think of at the moment.
Right now I am working on trying to flash CyanogenMod from this thread. I have tried both version 13 and version 14 both have the same problem. This is what I have tried.
Flash HammerheadCAF reboot back into recovery
Flash bootloader&radio_HHZ20h+2.30.zip reboot to recovery
Flash cm-13.0-20161029-UNOFFICIAL-hammerheadcaf.zip
Flash opengapps
Flash SuperSu
Reboot
Black screen of death
What is wrong with this process? I have also tried the same process with cm-14.0-20161029-UNOFFICIAL-hammerheadcaf.zip. I am now going to try this same process with cm-14.1-20161029-UNOFFICIAL-hammerheadcaf.zip. I don't expect any difference though. Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks,
Rocky
*****Update*****
I have tracked the problem down to CAF TWRP. I have formatted the phone which has removed everything except CAF TWRP and I am still getting the black screen of death situation. When the phone reboots it completely turns off. It will not respond unless I hold down power+volup+voldown for around 30 or 40 seconds. Then the phone will finally enter the bootloader. Are there any other recoveries that will flash CAF based ROMs? I don't know what else to do =(

Maybe don't flash supersu? Cm comes prerooted?

audit13 said:
Maybe don't flash supersu? Cm comes prerooted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply and time. I also tried flashing without SuperSU and it did the same thing. When I tapped reboot the phone would not turn on. I also tried just flashing the ROM and rebooting. The problem is with TWRP CAF because I have even formatted the phone so there was no ROM just TRWP CAF and when I tapped on reboot to recovery the phone just turned off. The power button wouldn't do anything. It would not even turn the phone on. The only thing I could do was hold the power+voldown+volup for 30 sec let go and press them again and go into bootloader.

Hey guys anyone else have any suggestions? I have tried sending a support ticket to twrp over a week ago. I haven't heard a word from them. I really want to use CAF ROMs

Hi!
I'm facing the same problem. I've been trying everything I can think of, and everything ended with a black screen when trying to boot:
Flashing stock again and then TWRP and CAF.
Flashing a lower version of TWRP (2.8.7.0) and then flashing CAF.
Flashing an AOSP version of CM, then TWRP for CAF and finally CAF.
Fixing permissions.
Changing filesystems to F2FS.
I tried to logcat, but adb logcat keeps waiting for the phone and it doesnt find anything.
Anybody has another idea of what could be happening or how to solve it?
Thanks!

I can flash caf, aswell as noncaf roms on my N5 just fine.
I used the CM14 darkrom CAF. Excellent performance, great battery life
i wiped the device in TWRP caf (Latest) (system,data,cache,dalvik0
Then i flashed the rom and the Darkrom gapps (use only those, as rom comes withouth a launcher. Pixwl launcher embeded into gapps package)
Wipe cahce/dalvik & reboot
It looped like: GOOGLElogo ,bootanimation ,self restart and it works perfectly fine since then
---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------
I should also mention, that i use the european D821 model

I was beginning to wonder if it was just me. I felt like an ass for posting for help because I felt like it was my fault. I still have not gotten any response at all from twrp support. I really want to use car based Roms. I use to be able to when I first got the phone. Now I don't have a clue what the problem is. I am using the 820 USA model.
After doing a Google search for CAF TWRP no boot black screen and other combinations I have found posts around the web from people with the same issue. The only resolution was to revert to stock. I have sent TWRP support another email linking to this topic as well as contacted them on g+ hopefully we can get a resolution.

since i dont own the device.... no logs= we cant help you

Funny thing is twrp caf and non-caf are identical, the ONLY difference is that they are looking for a different device name when flashing. So I'd suggest to use the non-caf one, download any caf rom, edit the updater-script and replace every "hammerheadcaf" with "hammerhead" and it will flash just fine. If it really is just a twrp issue that will work. But I don't know why, I feel it's bound to be more than that...

I'm having this problem too, I can flash any non-CAF ROM and it will bootup fine, but any CAF rom will leave me in a black screen. Did you found any solution yet?

I have not been able to find a solution to the problem. TWERP tech support seams to be non existent. I have emailed them numerous times. They don't even take the time to say they will look into it =(

Dark_Eyes_ said:
Funny thing is twrp caf and non-caf are identical, the ONLY difference is that they are looking for a different device name when flashing. So I'd suggest to use the non-caf one, download any caf rom, edit the updater-script and replace every "hammerheadcaf" with "hammerhead" and it will flash just fine. If it really is just a twrp issue that will work. But I don't know why, I feel it's bound to be more than that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What else could it be if we are able to flash absolutely anything else we want to flash except for a CAFE ROM?
I have never tried editting the updater script. Could you please explain how to do the things you described?

Ok I got an update. Today just for ****s and giggles I tried to flash the latest TWRP twrp-3.0.2-0-hammerhead.img on top of itself from inside TWRP using the image flashing process. I got the black screen I been getting that we are discussing here. Therefore, that tells me that the problem is not with TWRP CAF but with flash recovery's in TWRP. For some reason TWRP does not like that. Therefore, I am manually flashing the fallowing files the old fashion way by hand using the android sdk and adb.
1.) TWRP CAF
2.) The latest bootloader directly from the latest google factory image
3.) The latest radio directly from the latest google factory image
4.) Install the latest build of Dark ROM
I will report back with my findings.
Findings are epic fail. No boot, black screen of death.:crying: After holding down volup+voldown+power I am able to get back into recovery just like with flashing all the files through recovery when I first started. However, I can't get the damn thing to boot the ROM. I don't know what to think anymore. I think we just have to come to the conclusion that CAF based ROMs are out of the question for us :crying: :crying: :crying: When my son gets home and can hold the tablet while I operate the Nexus 5 maybe I will try to make a video of the problem. Hopefully this will help lead to a resolution.

Let me guess. All your phones have been repaired or are second-hand devices, aren't they?

experience7 said:
Let me guess. All your phones have been repaired or are second-hand devices, aren't they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
will a repaired device not work, mine has had the screen replaced. Nothing else just the screen.

experience7 said:
Let me guess. All your phones have been repaired or are second-hand devices, aren't they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, I have replaced the screen, why is that? Is it too much different than the original, shouldn't it work normally?

Not sure what's wrong with the hardware. No CAF for you guys, I'm sorry.

experience7 said:
Not sure what's wrong with the hardware. No CAF for you guys, I'm sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait seriously? because i fixed my screen i am not able to use a caf rom on my device? That seems ridiculous, what would cause that to even be a thing? is there some sort of security flag it checks for?

Yeah I replaced the screen on mine too. Not sure how that plays a role. The only thing I can think of is unless there is a missing driver or something like that because our screens are different.
There's gotta be a way to fix this problem. I wish I knew how to build ROMs, kernels, and recoveries. I don't think anyone will go out of their way to fix a problem that doesn't directly affect them. So for me it is stock, rooted, with ElementalX till this pos croaks.

Not sure what the problem is. Fact is that your screen somehow differs from the 'original' one which causes CAF ROMs to blackscreen.
If you really, really want your phone to run CAF you have to provide a lot more information. You could try to get a running system and fetch some hardware information. Pretty sure there are apps on the Play Store that print hardware brands/model names, etc. Report your results and I'll use the same method to get mine. We should compare. Furthermore we'll need logs. Try to boot CAF. Of course it will blackscreen again but you can reboot to recovery and pull some logs. Maybe last_kmsg and dmesg where the latter one should be even more interesting.
And last but not least I'd like to tag @myfluxi here. Perhaps that's interesting for you...

[6045O] Attempting to upgrade to Lineage 13

Alright, This is just because I am trying to take precautions so that way I do not end up with a brick.
Currently I am rocking 5.1 PAC-MAN and things are going well. But LineageOS for MM for 6045 came already and I want to use that as my daily driver.
Here is where I run into a problem. For those of you that know I only have LP radios and modems on my system. Main problem I am having and is keeping me from flashing is the lack of a MM radio and or modem. Is there anyone that is on 6045O that had tried this out without having that lockscreen problem?

If you don't flash the MM radios, you will end up with lock screen issues, unfortunately.
-EDIT-
So apparently I can't read. I have the 6045O and this link has the correct modem files to fix the lock screen issues.
https://mega.nz/#F!u0UBAICD!DzKYnswfK5J6dw5WQNgEDg
6.0.1 modem is the file you need.

magus7091 said:
If you don't flash the MM radios, you will end up with lock screen issues, unfortunately.
-EDIT-
So apparently I can't read. I have the 6045O and this link has the correct modem files to fix the lock screen issues.
https://mega.nz/#F!u0UBAICD!DzKYnswfK5J6dw5WQNgEDg
6.0.1 modem is the file you need.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Attempted. Everything but the pin issue is good. Weird how it trips badly with the PIN. Installing SuperSU as we speak.
EDIT: Looped after SuperSU flash..
EDIT2: Going back to 5.1. Thank you very much for the support.

Huskied said:
Attempted. Everything but the pin issue is good. Weird how it trips badly with the PIN. Installing SuperSU as we speak.
EDIT: Looped after SuperSU flash..
EDIT2: Going back to 5.1. Thank you very much for the support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While playing around with ROMs for the phone I had some odd issues here and there. As far as the SuperSU flash, it almost always loops a couple times during the reboot process, but I've switched to the lineageOS official su addon because I like native support and root management. Also it never did those initial boot loops. When I did have an issue (just recently, in fact) I ran a wipe of the system partition, then installed the rom, and ran the repair file system option in TWRP, and since then it's been smooth as butter. If you're interested in giving it another go, just let me know and I should be able to link you the files, as they're on my google drive.

magus7091 said:
While playing around with ROMs for the phone I had some odd issues here and there. As far as the SuperSU flash, it almost always loops a couple times during the reboot process, but I've switched to the lineageOS official su addon because I like native support and root management. Also it never did those initial boot loops. When I did have an issue (just recently, in fact) I ran a wipe of the system partition, then installed the rom, and ran the repair file system option in TWRP, and since then it's been smooth as butter. If you're interested in giving it another go, just let me know and I should be able to link you the files, as they're on my google drive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May I ask one more thing? Have you ever gotten the PIN lock or password or pattern lock to work?
EDIT: Nvm. Using Hi-Locker for now. All is good.

I use a pattern lock on mine, and after flashing the modem files, the lock screen functions as it should with all methods. Consider re-flashing the modem and ROM if you get to where you want to play with it, full wipe prior, no dirty flash.

Bootloop after installing Xposed on Oreo, Bit of help would be appreciated.

After searching around and not being 100% sure on how I should go about fixing this particular bootloop I decided to post a thread. Bootloader unlocked, phone unlocked, FRP unlocked, and TWRP installed. Can't seem to get the phone recognized when plugged in no matter where I'm at and hisuite recovery doesn't work, nor does the erecovery or whatever it's called. I had the phone running just fine with supersu but after installing my usual Xposed/Busybox and rebooting I got caught in a bootloop. (might have been caused by being on Oreo and having some problems with a version made for Nougat or something). I've seen there are various ways to exit the loop and at this point I'd be open to any but I do notice some posts saying they almost bricked their phone while doing so. Currently on my microSD I've got a hwota update I was going to try to use. I've got no backups in TWRP either because I'm irresponsible (my fault). What can I do to just wipe the phone, reinstall any version of android and get back to where I was at. I'm a little new to this as I've only ever rooted my tablet. Thanks for the help and all the info I've taken from this forum before and hopefully now. Forgot to mention I don't know my full device number only MHA-L29 in the US.

Ok Well after laying in bed and thinking about it I wound up running HWOTA8 from TWRP since I could access that. Seemed to just bring me back to eRecovery, and I factory reset my phone. I'll reinstall TWRP and flash supersu then make a backup and try again. Not sure what happened but I seemed to be in a pretty good spot since I could access TWRP even though my phone wouldn't show up on my computer while in fastboot/Recovery mode.
edit: oh I got a new problem now. I'm on testkeys firmware, camera, sim, and bluetooth work but I can't update from 7 back to 8. I'll do more testing around before bothering to unlock bootloader or install TWRP.
I've been trying to follow the guide in this thread but to no avail. I just get software install failed and then I have to start again.

Well another day of searching google and XDA trying to figure out guides and I don't think I'm any closer to a solution to getting off test-keys. Some seem to suggest that you need to go back to MM, some suggest running HWOTA, some suggest the three button recovery and others say that won't work at all. I'm not sure I've ever felt this confused haha. I'll keep at it but there has to be some way to get to a build that has the updater on it since that's all I seem to be lacking to get off test-keys. I can even search the settings for the updater but when you press it nothing happens. It's like they completely removed any sort of updating this build can do.

KittyCat5eUTP said:
Well another day of searching google and XDA trying to figure out guides and I don't think I'm any closer to a solution to getting off test-keys. Some seem to suggest that you need to go back to MM, some suggest running HWOTA, some suggest the three button recovery and others say that won't work at all. I'm not sure I've ever felt this confused haha. I'll keep at it but there has to be some way to get to a build that has the updater on it since that's all I seem to be lacking to get off test-keys. I can even search the settings for the updater but when you press it nothing happens. It's like they completely removed any sort of updating this build can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is your full build number? Please, post screenshot.

5[Strogino] said:
What is your full build number? Please, post screenshot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Model: MHA-L29
Build: NRD90M test-keys
EMUI version: 5.0.1
Android version: 7.0
I believe I was originally on some variant of MHA-L29C567 since I'm US based and its the dual sim version
I've tried using HWOTA a few times to either upgrade/update or rebrand and no matter what I choose when my phone restarts to install I just get software install failed. Usually I'll have to run through first time setup again. I've read that some people said this particular issue had to do with the update zips but mine seem to be named correctly so all I can think of doing is getting another firmware and trying again with that.

haha okay so I found out I was putting the update zips in the wrong folder. I fixed that and re ran HWOTA. update started/finished and my phone started booting and restarting a lot then went into erecovery. I'm downloading the update package right now and it's slow as hell but it's moving. And that failed leaving me to boot a few times and then get back to erecovery. I'll try getting into fastboot or recovery.
Edit: Well that seems to have resolved itself now. After having the erecovery fail I wiped/factory reset and booted the phone into oreo 8.0.0.321 with all the apps and updater. Thanks to everyone who dropped in and I'll be getting emails if someone replies that needs help too. I'm not very knowledgeable but I can give it a shot.

SIM Unlocked G920W8, 9.0 and 10.0 ROMs no longer detect SIM.

*SOLVED: see reply*
The ROM I used before was LineageOS [10.0] and used a custom ROM with Android 9 before that. Needed to unlock my phone, and couldn't do that on Lineage, and had troubles flashing firmware with Odin, so I ended up using FrankensteinS6. The Stock kernel seems to let me input the NCK, and unlock the phone. So that's luckily finally over.
For about 4 days now I've been formatting phone and trying again and again. FrankensteinS6 works, some other 6.0/7.0 ROMs work. But LineageOS now enters a bootloop, and Pixel Experience (9.0 and 10.0) and Evolution X 10.0 don't detect the SIM. The ones that don't detect SIM also show no IMEI, which was worrying at first because I though I lost a partition.
Possibly related, the ROM of Pixel Experience Android 10.0 for G920W8 will not install because (paraphrasing) "This device is zeroflte, this file is for zerofltecan, zeroflte***, zeroflte***" claiming that my phone isn't one of those models. I got this S6 from Bell Canada, and I still have even the sticker that says it is a G920W8, not G920F. However, the Pixel Experience ROM for G920F flashes fine (sans the main problem).
I don't know the exact LineageOS ROM I used before, but I've tried all of their 10.0 releases, tried redownloading, and I get the bootloop every time. I see some info online of flashing modem firmware, but... I don't even know where to start with that. As I mentioned at the start, Odin is crapping out. I couldn't flash firmware with it, because it would reject the phone right after I started flashing. Anything I could do within TWRP would be great. I moved it back to FrankensteinS6 for my sanity, I started doing this Sunday and I'm starting to repeat steps over and over hoping that it just solves itself.
I tried to keep this straightforward, and I'm sure I did a bad job. I can extrapolate on what I have attempted. Please tell me what I have to do to get an android 10 ROM working on this old beauty again.

I do not have all the solutions. As per my tests with my SM-G920W8. I have managed to find ROMS and try them out. I have only seen Nougat 7.0 ROMS to work almost flawlessly. NOT 7.1.2, important, 7.0 only.
I have also tested some Pie and v10 ROMS like Pixel Experience. The ROMS boot nicely but since I do not use a SIM card to call as I use SIP phone numbers and require WiFi. But that left asside, I came upon serious camera issues no matter what I try. Up to now, SamStock ROM is pretty much the best Stock ROM I found but I always need to run the Magisk UNINSTALLER before re-installing the latest Magisk version..
As for Kernels, well, Anything that is oriented with Lineage OS, I've had camera issues even with Nougat v7.0. So basically, the only ROMS I found good, as of today, for now, are stock ROMS v7.0. But, to do your tests, Even if you have a 920F ROM, you can download a 920W8 kernel as long as you download a kernel which supports your installed Android version. Also make sure to download the proper Stock or AOSP kernel (AOSP for LineageOS). There's not many but there's a few ones that work properly.
Another option is to download an AOSP ROM that works for W8 phones, unzip the file and grab the boot file inside corresponding to the W8 or T-Mobile version. You simply unzip your real ROM you want top install, replace the boot file for the one you got and rezip it. This made my phone boot properly for some F version ROMS but again, not without issues. That's why, I really suggest v7.0 Srock ROMS. I hope this helps you a bit. Again, you can have your own tests and other users may have other answers, but this is based off over 30 bootloops in my case of trying to mod a ROM for the W8 model. It's not easy to find a good one for Canada, I admit!!!

I flashed TWRP years ago, and I found out that I had a G920F version flashed. I don't know why Lineage allowed me to use SIM before, but rectifying this issue seems to made the SIM work in newer versions.
I don't know what the S6's predisposition to having crashing cameras is, but I have avoided this in the past by using custom camera apps, like Open Camera. This has saved me every time.
As for the boot loops... I think another thing that helped is that "format data" doesn't wipe the OS. When you are in recovery, having issues with bootloops in various ROMs, try advanced wipe, and wipe the system. It didn't fix right away, but the time I got Pixel Experience 10 up and running that was the trick.