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Right, I can't see an Issues list for this device yet so I'll start one:
1. A couple of times now, I've left my phone to charge overnight and woke up to an unresponsive device. Power button does nothing, screen is off and only way to get it device back up and running is to poke the soft-reset button OR remove and reinsert the battery.
2. Unresponsive buttons: every now and then the "right" button of the D-Pad does nothing, then suddenly it will start working again, same with the "Back" button though much more infrequent/noticable than the D-Pad issue I've experienced.
I did not expierence the first problem with the charging issue.
To close and app you can use the (arrow pointing left) key but sometimes i have to push it like 3 or 4 times before it respond.
Same with the touchscreen but i fixed that by increasing the touchpad sensitivity with a regedit.
My device has reset a few times while I been reading email or texts.
John
Guys. The whole phone besides the keyboard is touch sensitive. So the whole front keys and touchscreen. Increase sensitivity and it should work fine.
Kraize92 said:
Guys. The whole phone besides the keyboard is touch sensitive. So the whole front keys and touchscreen. Increase sensitivity and it should work fine.
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Erm, I'm sorry but that's not right is it. The D-Pad, Send, End, Home and Back buttons are actual buttons as opposed to touch sensitive.
The zoom wheel is obviously a "touch" area too. The issue I am descriping seems to suggest that the switches might be a bit flakey rather than anything else.
no he is right all the buttons are PRESSURE (he said touch) sensitive..when they unvieled the diamond the ceo of htc demonstrated that the keys are pressure sensitie and even the cameria button can SENSE when your finger is approaching to ready the zoom ..here is the youtube vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTd3SUPSJsMit
pazookie said:
no he is right all the buttons are PRESSURE (he said touch) sensitive..when they unvieled the diamond the ceo of htc demonstrated that the keys are pressure sensitie and even the cameria button can SENSE when your finger is approaching to ready the zoom ..here is the youtube vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTd3SUPSJsMit
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Click to collapse
Sorry my bad. WM phones used to be called touch sensitve but in reality they're pressure sensitive. The only touch sensitive phones out currently are the iPhones and the Omni I would say.
Syphon Filter said:
Erm, I'm sorry but that's not right is it. The D-Pad, Send, End, Home and Back buttons are actual buttons as opposed to touch sensitive.
The zoom wheel is obviously a "touch" area too. The issue I am descriping seems to suggest that the switches might be a bit flakey rather than anything else.
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If the were actual buttons they would be capable of being pushed in which it's not possible to do
Issues:
HTC task man doesnt work properly.
Poor reception
Too many startup apps/services put on by htc to provide touch interface (which i hate)
why on eart you use operaloder on phones stratup just to get 2-3 more seconds fast load time for opera.
i think htc just over done this touch crap.
could anoyone access setupfiles on rom so i can use plain wm6.1
Kraize92 said:
If the were actual buttons they would be capable of being pushed in which it's not possible to do
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Hang on, you clearly don't own either Touch Pro or a Diamond, the D-Pad, Call, End, Home and Back buttons CAN BE PUSHED IN. They are actual buttons.
Syphon Filter said:
Hang on, you clearly don't own either Touch Pro or a Diamond, the D-Pad, Call, End, Home and Back buttons CAN BE PUSHED IN. They are actual buttons.
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No. I'm sure of it. I have demoed both a touch pro and a diamond. I meant that they CANNOT be pushed in as you can on the kaiser. I know this for a fact and on every video you will see that it is mentioned as a pressure sensitive all around except for the keyboard. I'm sure of that. They are not real buttons. I guess you could push it in if it's just a piece of glass and paper underneath the actual pressure sensitive touchpad, but it wouldn't make it real buttons. I know what I'm talking about Unless HTC suddenly decided to make them real buttons which would kill their profits so I'm assuming that they wouldn't do that either. I demoed it about 2-3 weeks ago.
Syphon Filter said:
Right, I can't see an Issues list for this device yet so I'll start one:
1. A couple of times now, I've left my phone to charge overnight and woke up to an unresponsive device. Power button does nothing, screen is off and only way to get it device back up and running is to poke the soft-reset button OR remove and reinsert the battery.
2. Unresponsive buttons: every now and then the "right" button of the D-Pad does nothing, then suddenly it will start working again, same with the "Back" button though much more infrequent/noticable than the D-Pad issue I've experienced.
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Click to collapse
1 - Not had that problem - hopefully that'll go after your next hard reset or ROM update - these damn things always have, and always will behave differently for different people, it seems!
2 - My Back button missed my press once or twice, but I think it's more of a hardware issue than a software issue though (or possibly user error!). I'll tell you now though, hitting the "Right" button on my Diamond was next to impossible. It was extremely stiff, and would eventually register as a press on the "Hang Up" button. Drove me absolutely mental! But I think I was the only Diamond user who had that problem, and my Raphael is fine.
having got one in my hand - they are tactile push bottons - i.e you push them until it clicks before an action happens.
ardsar said:
having got one in my hand - they are tactile push bottons - i.e you push them until it clicks before an action happens.
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Then I must be crazy. Since all I have to do is touch the button and a action happens. But my pressure threshold is very high.
Kraize92 said:
No. I'm sure of it. I have demoed both a touch pro and a diamond. I meant that they CANNOT be pushed in as you can on the kaiser. I know this for a fact and on every video you will see that it is mentioned as a pressure sensitive all around except for the keyboard. I'm sure of that. They are not real buttons. I guess you could push it in if it's just a piece of glass and paper underneath the actual pressure sensitive touchpad, but it wouldn't make it real buttons. I know what I'm talking about Unless HTC suddenly decided to make them real buttons which would kill their profits so I'm assuming that they wouldn't do that either. I demoed it about 2-3 weeks ago.
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I'm not going to get into an argument over this but the 9 buttons (Home, Back, Call, End, Up, Down, Left, Right and the centre of the D-Pad) on the face of the Diamond and the Touch Pro are buttons which have a tactile feedback, a press will not register until you "feel" the button pressed. The only thing in that area that is a "touch sensitive" thing is the zoom wheel.
Just because the area looks flush does not mean they are not buttons. There's a single piece of material that covers that area but I can assure you there are individual switches under there that provide a tactile feedback. You HAVE to feel that feedback for the button to do anything, simply touching it will have no effect unless you are using the zoom wheel functionality.
If you believe anything else you are wrong.
Kraize92 said:
Then I must be crazy. Since all I have to do is touch the button and a action happens. But my pressure threshold is very high.
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1. What do you mean "my pressure threshold is very high"? Are you talking about the registry settings?
2. I thought you didnt have a Touch Pro or Diamond?
I said I didn't own one. Doesn't mean I don't have one in hand right now I have family members and friends that work for HTC america and AT&T.
Yeah. Registry settings/Advance Config for diamond
Kraize92 said:
I said I didn't own one. Doesn't mean I don't have one in hand right now I have family members and friends that work for HTC america and AT&T.
Yeah. Registry settings/Advance Config for diamond
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Yes. Ok.
Anyway, so you're saying that device you have in your hand right now has no tactile feedback on the front face buttons?
If have insiders at HTC why did you ask for donations so you could get a Touch Pro in the other thread?
Syphon Filter said:
Yes. Ok.
Anyway, so you're saying that device you have in your hand right now has no tactile feedback on the front face buttons?
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EDIT: Okay. Maybe I'm mistaken. It's only the d-pad that's pressure sensitive. The buttons are tactile even though they feel as if they are pressure sensitive because I don't push into it like I did with the front face buttons on my kaiser.
ah, you've seen the light. The button DOES push in but the panel is one solid "sheet" that covers all the buttons.
The "wheel" is the only touch sensitive bit. The 5 navigation functions of the d-pad (up down left right select) are all tactile buttons that work off little switches.
Syphon Filter said:
ah, you've seen the light. The button DOES push in but the panel is one solid "sheet" that covers all the buttons.
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Actually. I should show you the light I'm right.
[Link]
Click number 3 and read this caption: "Swipe your finger across the screen to scroll through contracts, zoom, and pan web pages, browse your music library, and more, or press the touch-sensitive buttons to navigate and control your phone."
So concluding to that original fact that I was indeed right
New Fuze user and new user to WM in general. I like the device, but it's been a bit overwhelming trying to get things together and tweaking it.
My biggest gripe right now is the sensitivity of the 4 way directional pad. Up and down work pretty well, but left and right are tricky to hit and I usually wind up going home, canceling, or going back. It's quite frustrating and I'd much rather use the directional pad than peck on the touchscreen in many situations.
I'm a bit befuddled: is navigation via the directional pad touch sensitive or is it a physical button? Is there anyway to adjust the sensitivities or sensor zones/regions so as not to accidentally hit one of other hardware buttons?
Thanks.
Got the same issue. The up / down navigation works fine, but left and right is just horrible. It would almost be better if you could use the touch sensitive part, rather than having to press the buttons fully down.
yup its a problem on all i think
lbhocky19 said:
yup its a problem on all i think
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Wow, how did this get pass R&D and QA? The lack of responsive and accurate left/right keys is abysmal (makes me unable to use Calendar). I sure hope there will be some remedy ....
Yeah, I agree, the d-pad is sorely lacking. It seems to be getting a little easier as I get accustomed to it, but the d-pad from my 8525 was much better.
I agree 100%. And like vexingv said, this is particularly annoying in the calendar application. The D pad on my 8525 was far easier to use.
And all this time i thought i just kept messing up. I have the same problem also.
calendar is where the problem really does shine
This is the WORST part about this new phone redesign. It's almost as if MARKETING came up with this idea than actual engineers.
I wonder if we can just cut the surface so we get the d-pad left-right back and so it's not shared with other buttons.
Thanks a lot HTC! You now have THREE buttons that do the same thing instead of 2 last time on the Kaiser:
Home goes back to Home
Back (formerly OK), goes back to home anyways
Hangup goes back to Home anyways already!
So hitting left or right you have 66% of it going straight back to HOME.
Then, you take away the scroll-wheel capability and replace it with rocker buttons for volume that only do that and nothing else.
Genius by HTC.
NuShrike said:
This is the WORST part about this new phone redesign. It's almost as if MARKETING came up with this idea than actual engineers.
I wonder if we can just cut the surface so we get the d-pad left-right back and so it's not shared with other buttons.
Thanks a lot HTC! You now have THREE buttons that do the same thing instead of 2 last time on the Kaiser:
Home goes back to Home
Back (formerly OK), goes back to home anyways
Hangup goes back to Home anyways already!
So hitting left or right you have 66% of it going straight back to HOME.
Then, you take away the scroll-wheel capability and replace it with rocker buttons for volume that only do that and nothing else.
Genius by HTC.
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Click to collapse
Well, the scroll wheel does work, but its ability is to zoom/decrease the text size, which for most intents and purposes is a waste.
For clarification, is the directional rocker currently touch-sensitive or is there a physical button that is being depressed (albeit poorly).
If this keeps up, how about mapping some of the other 4 hardware buttons to provide some L/R functionality?
Okay guys. Here is the weird crazy part. I had the same problem, I just flashed the original stock att rom back (Well, tried to freeze in the middle to return ) but I had the att rom on it, I tried to re-install via the microSD card, and after it went through all the customization, I was so suprised that the left and right were working, it blew me away. I was like, "wdf? Is this the same phone." I have no idea what happened, but they seem more responsive. No tricks. At first I thought it was just me, but I started to use it more and more and it was working much better than before. No idea what fixed it, but I'm a happy camper
Here's some pictures of a guy who dropped it. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2904011&postcount=1
Looks like distinct buttons. We just need to keep the face plate from sharing the presses.
Stock rom here... Moving 'left' seems to work okay but 'right' either hits Call End or Back. And here I thought I was doing something wrong.
NuShrike said:
Here's some pictures of a guy who dropped it. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2904011&postcount=1
Looks like distinct buttons. We just need to keep the face plate from sharing the presses.
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Seriously! Whose idea was it to make all those buttons into 1 face plate! stupid idiot designer. At least they could've separated the d-pad somehow, maybe a very precise circle.
Yeah with the new excitement with touch interfaces, HTC seemed to have left their minds/brains elsewhere. But judging from the pictures in the linked thread above, it seems like none of the 4 directions have physical buttons.
Count me in on this problem...
For the Calendar I just open the keyboard and use that D-pad on the bottom right.
SOLUTIONS...
I propose someone should create software to do 1 of 2 things:
1) Use the G-sensor to control scrolling. This function would be activated by touching, not pressing/clicking, the center of D-pad. Similar to how you focus the camera. This action would activate the software thus allowing scrolling in all 4 directions by tilting the device.
2) Change the input so we only have to Touch the D-pad (like how we zoom in on pictures/Opera) to move in the desired direction.
So who's up to the challenge of developing some software to make this happen? I will gladly donate $$$ as the D-pad is the ONLY thing I dislike about the Fuze/Touch Pro.
it took me 10 days to realize how to left and right buttons work (sprint).
Hmm...maybe the designers/engineers meant for BOTH hardware buttons on either side to be depressed nearly simultaneously in order to register navigation to either the left or right?
Eg.: Placing the tip of my right thumb parallel with the end the bottom of the phone between the two hardware buttons (farther away from the D-pad than one normally would) such that both buttons depressed, I was able to get much better accuracy navigating to the right. Can get the same response on the left side, but it's not as feasible due to the awkward positioning of the hands/fingers.
I got tired of this problem before so I used G-controller. It works.
[Link]
The buttons are both touch-sensitive and physical buttons. The problem is if your thumb is touching any of the big buttons, it will prefer that over the directional click. Add to that the fact that the area the phone considers to be part of the non-directional buttons is much bigger than what it considers to be the directional buttons and it is a problem.
I wish people would stop following Steve Jobs's design ideas. Fewer buttons does not a better product make.
Has anyone found a way or believe it is possible to control how sensitive each button on the touch cover is? I presume the software just sees it as a giant flat surface, and then maps presses in specific areas to button presses. So I guess really you would be saying to the software that touches from this specific area of the cover we are going to accept at a lower pressure.
What I want is to be able to increase the sensitivity of the spacebar area. I feel like when typing from my lapt or any other non solid surface that I really have to hit the spacebar for it to register, where as the rest of the buttons feel spot on.
Thoughts?
tiny17 said:
Has anyone found a way or believe it is possible to control how sensitive each button on the touch cover is? I presume the software just sees it as a giant flat surface, and then maps presses in specific areas to button presses. So I guess really you would be saying to the software that touches from this specific area of the cover we are going to accept at a lower pressure.
What I want is to be able to increase the sensitivity of the spacebar area. I feel like when typing from my lapt or any other non solid surface that I really have to hit the spacebar for it to register, where as the rest of the buttons feel spot on.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's funny you mention that, because I have more or less the same issue, but with the Shift keys. I always miss the Shift key and hit either below it or I don't hit it hard enough. I want to prevent that from happening because it can get kind of annoying. Great question.
Your assumption is not actually true, by the way - different parts of the cover have different sensors, or no sensor, under them.
I've found hitting the spacebar with my left thumb way more reliable than with my right. Not sure why, and since this isn't my default style, it currently slows down my typing. Also, if I remember to hit further upward on the bar, it works better. It's sensitive all the way down to the top of the trackpad, but it's either more sensitive closer to the other keys, or something about my hand geometry makes me naturally hit it better when I hit further up.
I always found the sensitivity to be a bit low for my taste and I can't get over this particular sensitivity level still. Since it's software that interprets presses, there could be a registry key for that. Microsoft should make it a setting.
Anyway, I'm also starting to experience a bigger problem - certain keys' sensitivity degrading. Now it takes considerably more force for such often used keys as A and S to register compared to the rarely used ones. While it takes an okay amount of pressure for a "devices" button to register a click, I have to stab the A for it to register. And I think it will get worse.
P.S.: I type quite a lot though wouldn't go for the type cover because touch cover is more aesthetically pleasing and good enough as a keyboard if worked correctly, up to it's potential.
Also, I think most people would appreciate autocorrect on the touch cover.
**Integrating an eye tracker into the hardware**
“The Eye Tribe released its first eye-tracking product to developers in December -- a long, thin $99 module that attaches to a Windows laptop, computer or tablet. It sold out immediately and the company is now working on a second batch. But it also has a more exciting proposition in the pipeline -- a software development kit module for Android phones that it eventually wants to see integrated into the a wide range of mobile devices.
“Most of the requisite hardware is already built into phones. The Eye Tribe just needs to persuade companies to integrate the technology.
All that's required is a camera sensor with infrared capabilities. "What we know is that in Q4 this year, sensors are coming out that can switch between regular camera and infrared camera."”
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wired/co/uk/news/archive/2014-02/25/eye-tribe-android
**Cost**
“OEM vendors could likely add this sensor to their handsets for just five dollars”
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reviewscnet/eye-tribe-shows-off-working-eye-tracking-on-a-mobile-phone/
If modifying the device to add eye-tracking only adds 5 dollars to the manufacturing cost, then I’m sure that at least one of the smartphone, tablet, notebook, and laptop manufacturers will make the supposedly easy camera modification.
**See before touch**
I think that most of the time, a person will see a widget that they want to touch before they actually reach out, and physically touch it
(The only times where I’m not looking is when I press the Android Navigation Bar buttons that are near the bottom edge of the screen. Although, on a larger Nexus 10, I usually have to look at them first).
**Eyes + consecutively touching the same few buttons**
On certain tasks, it might be convenient and fast to have the option of touching “single tap where I’m looking”, and “swipe up where I’m looking” buttons. You would only need one or two buttons that are close to you (kind of like the Navigation Bar buttons at the bottom).
Look, touch an easy-to-reach spot, look, and then touch the same button again. You don’t have to keep changing your hand and finger positions between each tap.
“Looking at icons on a desktop instantly highlights them, and you can then tap anywhere on the screen to open up the selected app.”
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Click to collapse
stuff/tv/mwc-2014/eyes-eye-tribe-we-play-fruit-ninja-using-nothing-our-eyeballs/feature
I guess that in one of their demos, they temporarily made the entire screen a “tap where I’m looking” button.
Besides the three default buttons in the Navigation Bar, you could add “single tap where I’m looking”, and “swipe up where I’m looking” (to perhaps simulate a Page Down for reading) buttons, and those alone should allow you to do a lot of things).
Vertical touchscreen
If you have a vertically propped up tablet with an external keyboard, you could remap a keyboard button to be the “tap where I’m looking” button.
**Hands-free interaction**
Even without the above options, I still think the ability to have a page automatically scroll down when your eyes reach the bottom of the page, or have an e-book automatically turn the page when the gaze reaches the corner of the text would be pretty good features to have. They would be especially handy for computer interaction while cooking and eating, and interacting with a vertically set up touch device, or laptop that is more than an arms-length away while you do other stuff on the desktop.
(**Google eye tracking patents**
Notably, Google has an eye tracking patent that involves recording advertisement impressions through eye focus with pay-per-gaze, and another patent that demonstrates a method to unlock a device by having a sensor in a head-mounted accessory (probably something like Google Glass) track the patterns of the pupil.
It indicates that eye tracking could have even more backing in the near future).
Hello, I am trying to get familiar with this device and those S-pen enabled apps. How does palm rejection really work? It seems that if the pen touches the screen first and then I rest my palm on the screen, there is no marks made by my palm. If I put my palm on it first, depending on the settings, sometimes my palm leaves some marks.
While using the handwriting feature, I often hit the large space bar by mistake. Any way to avoid this while resting the writing hand on the screen?
There's subtle nuances in terms of performance of rejection of stray touches depending on the application that you're in. Some apps handle it better than others.
For example, in Action Memo as you lay hour hand down to start writing with the stylus it may leave a stray mark. Experiment with this by having the first touch of your hand be your knuckle of your pinky. Drag your knuckle across a little before bringing the tip of the pen to the screen. That stray mark stays there when you're done with your writing with the stylus.
Now repeat the same test in S-Note with finger input enabled. Again practice the motion of keeping your knuckle on the screen and dragging, then bringing the pen to the screen. Notice anything different? As long as you haven't lifted your knuckle, S-Note deletes the stray line the moment the pen gets close. Any marks you've made prior to the pen getting close to the screen stay there however.
The point being that the answer isn't as straighforward as you might think. Here we have two examples of two applications made by the same developer (at least you would THINK its the same developer) yet they act completely different. When writing with these devices one has to be deliberate in when and how they bring their hand and pen to the screen. With practice this becomes second nature though. It definitely helps when note taking apps have the ability to ignore finger input.
With regards to your problem with the handwriting recognition pad used for text input . . I'm with you there. The location of that space bar and all the other buttons is mindbogglingly stupid. They should be located above your palm. IMO what we have here is a classic example of the porting of a function that was developed for phones held in your hand (whereby you do not need to rest your hand on the phone) to a tablet without realizing that the usage of the function would be different on the new hardware.
Hi... using styli on tablets is new for me, and some general guidance would be appreciated.... I'm looking for palm rejection solutions for Samsung Tab devices that (unlike touchscreentune) don't require rooting.
We have some of these Notier styli in-house, and certainly they provide a very nice writing experience, except of course that S Note doesn't have palm rejection so the stylus can't be used for note taking.
A Microsoft Surface 3 will arrive later today, and it has a resistive screen, Wacom stylus and palm rejection, so that should work well. But we'd like to use cheaper Tab devices as well.
Our applications are general note taking (instead of legal pads) and also annotating medical images.
Just my opinion here but the perception that palm rejection is not present is not a black and white thing. Rejection of stray input has more to do with touch sensor type of the device, the application used and the way the device is used within the application in question as opposed to a device itself not having palm rejection support.
Take a capacitive sensor based screen for example, where the user holding a capacitive stylus in hand and he/she brings the hand down to rest on the surface to begin writing. For a brief moment some other part or parts of the hand/wrist are going to contact the screen prior to the tip of the capacitive stylus. Without any other means of knowing how to interpret these inputs the software is going to have to consider registering them somehow. As long as these points of contact don't move significantly before movement of the stylus tip begins the application that is active can then make sense of what is going on and begin to reject the touch inputs from everything but the stylus tip. This is how "palm rejection" works. All touch input has to be evaluated and then the application decides what is input and what isnt.
IMO devices with active stylus support are always going to have an advantage when it comes to "palm rejection" in that software applications can be written in such a way as to completely ignore capacitive touch when the pen is in range of the screen. LectureNotes app for example can be set to completely ignore finger touches for writing operations and I'm sure this is not the only application that can do this. That isn't to say that this is a global feature that ALL apps inherently have, but rather it is a feature available to developers based upon how they implement things. Devices limited to capacitive stylus support only will always be at a disadvantage because the device will not perceive a difference between the tip of a stylus and a finger.
Aloha...
Yes, that's right... the application needs to work with the touch screen driver to reject inputs that aren't useful.
With the Samsung Tab Pro 12.2, resting one's palm on the screen completely disables the ability to write with a stylus (using S-Note), so it's pretty much hopeless, at least using S-Note. S-Note is nicely integrated with Evernote...
Will give LectureNotes a try. It mentions being "usable" with Samsung Tab products, so let's see if it can reject palm pressure.
Palm Rejection just means you don't smudge your drawing/writing with your palm whilst resting it on the screen.
Remember how you used to get a black palm from the ink as a kid, and your whole paper was covered in smudges? That.
It is not a 'Disable Touch Input' feature. It does not disable touch, it does not disable the buttons, and it does not restrict input to the Pen only.
If you're rooted, this is an option: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gmd.spencontrol