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Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will. Other got it as well.
That means they already have some form of control and disregard your configuration. What can they do more?
With an SELinux they can control your device as they wish if they configure it to hide processes that run, as of today, unknown code.
I'm an "BOFH Unix kick ass consultant" by trade. I know how nicely you can do this. "Living in a box". Oh yes.
This is about our future, the right for privacy and the right to do what we want with out own private property!
The extreme measures taken against just obtaining root are disproportionately harsh. If they succeed, others will follow.
We might end up with iNdroid in a few years. I want to prevent that. But we need more knowledge. They destroy evidence if you trip Knox.
Rooting is not illegal, but the active action of destroying someones property with indent is, whatever cause, warranty claims or not.
There will be consequences. But we need more information, and you who have a Note 3, just as me, can help. The key can be your phone.
Knox is not "just a flag". It have attached code. It sabotages your system both software and hardware. Scrambled software. Wifi permanently
damaged, to name a few. I know, from my S4, and have it verified from source. But that code is run once and then gone. Are there more E-fuses?
Dumping hardware has made at least one device totally bricked. Not even the Power button worked. It was stone-dead.
Also:
If someone has a way of obtaining it without tripping Knox please contact me. I'm willing to take the risk of tripping Knox since this is more important then
some warranty.
I've been working in this for two months now and the more I learn the more I start to question if this isn't a bad movie with Kevin Costner...
No opt-out. Enforcement of this "Enterprise" solution. On your private phone? Think! The money this must cost? You want a return of investment!
Rooted phones cost that much? I don't buy that. You have an unique certificate that binds YOU to your phone. You and your phone are bound as one.
What if 3rd-party malicious code get hands of that? Viruses exist, even on Play. But your Antivirus can't run because it can't access the parts it must have
higher right to read check your programs. I rather run a firewall and deny permissions of programs that want way too much.
A "file manager" doesn't need to read your contacts. A game doesn't need to use your camera. But you can't prevent that.
Knox prevents that. Because you can place a document in a container... I rather use my freeware AES-program that encrypt documents on the fly.
Until we know more the device should be considered as not safe. Why is Samsung stonewalling the question so many have asked?
"What is the extent of the damage made?". I think we have the right to now that, don't you? Many has tried. "Heavy damage" is so far the best we got.
So please, if you still have root and not a crippled device, please contact me. Your help is the only way I see is possible right now.
All the best,
Abs (Yes, I need to update my tag, since I have so much new)
Hi. I've root, not tripped knox and with selinux set to enforcing.
Enviado desde mi SM-N9005 mediante Tapatalk
Absolon said:
Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
...
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.
xclub_101 said:
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It got pushed about the moment I turned on my phone the first time. So as I said. I missed the opportunity
But thank those who instead of making sarcastic comments, already sent a message and offered help instead. :good:
I'm sure that the large group who got their phones destroyed really value you and your opinion, Xblub
But be careful so you don't trip it. You would not believe how easy that is!
Would be sad if you also got your phone devastated by the unkindly spirits at Samsung.
Let's hope we find a solution before that happens, right?
And please, if more want to help out please mess me, there are so many who got their phones destroyed and Samsung will not stop itself.
It will only be worse. But you can help stop this while we still have a change.
Next phones will have Knox chipped and then even Xblub will be sad
/Abs
Edit: Of course I meant Xclub.
As noted, easy to make a mistake. Like wanting Xclub to write "ls" when I really meant he should run
#!/bin/bash
//usr/bin/tail -n +2 $0 | g++ -o main -x c++ - && ./main && rm main && exit
main(_){_^448&&main(-~_);putchar(--_%64?32|-~7[__TIME__-_/8%8][">'txiZ^(~z?"-48]>>";;;====~$::199"[_*2&8|_/64]/(_&2?1:8)%8&1:10);} (Please don't run it!)
Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.
radicalisto said:
Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie
Absolon said:
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you can tell the difference once Knox is tripped. The only obvious thing that sticks out is you have more RAM/HDD available and the phone feels slightly faster. As for Play and Apps not working, I am yet to see any issues (only play issues I have ever had have been No connection, when there clearly is one. After a few refreshes it loads up. Now bear in mind, My connection isn't weak, I've been on the internet via the browser or on an app when I have switched to Play and experienced this) - Not to mention a stupid notification yapping at us telling us we are wrong to use something on a phone we legally own.
Absolon said:
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aww I dread to even think what Samsung will enforce on us next time. There should be an option when you purchase the phone, if you're gonna use it for corporate use, then have KNOX installed via a code they print out. - But to us the everyday user. All it's doing is
*Taking up space on OUR phones
*Running cheekily in the BG
*As you stated, banning access to certain parts of the phone, which IF exploited, our AV's etc cannot reach.
To say we (well most of us) live in a free world, when it comes to us being consumers... they like to shaft us several times over.
Absolon said:
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.
lispnik said:
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all have the same configurations and not all have the same level of knowledge. But that is not a problem.
As I said. I don't want into your phone, I want you to collect info. So I gladly take any help I can get. Send me a private message.
Because I need as many as possible to verify things. Don't be shy! I don't bite. That hard
Destruction of data INSIDE the knox container after gaining root (which is a vulnerability in itself) is not data manipulation of any sort.
Tripping the counter will just void your warranty (as you would expect anyway!) and disable the knox container completely - it will NOT cause any other issue whatsoever to your device.
The System Security Policy service resets with a factory reset (so you can now go to the security tab and disable auto update).
Security Policy blocks known vulnerabilities that can give access to unauthorised root permissions and potential malware attacks.
Knox as a container can be opted out by uninstalling the knox application.
Knox as a counter is an integrated security measure and in no way should you ever be able to turn it off.
Security Policy is an active security system and you should not have the option to turn it off - you can prevent updates to the policy however.
Tripping the counter will not cause any hardware/software damage (!! An E-FUSE triggering is not damage, it's doing the job it is designed to do in case of compromising the system !!) - it will prevent you from using the knox container which is no longer safe after root and prevent you from getting warranty because you void it by rooting since the middle ages anyway - WiFi issues, dead devices and whatnot are not related in any way as most N3 users here are already using the device with knox tripped.
If you want root privileges you automatically lose your warranty and access to knox, nothing more nothing less.
PS: Update 16 blocked kingoapproot and vroot (which are technically malware), not root de la vega, the new bootloader blocked root de la vega because it's an exploit to gain root.
Absolon said:
...
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While the first line falls close to what a conspiracy theorist would say the second one is an interesting point where more attention would be useful.
It can be argued that in the context of EU law the HARDWARE warranty is different than the SOFTWARE warranty, and that a manufacturer can not evade providing the first.
The thing is - to the best of my knowledge Samsung has never (so far) denied HARDWARE warranty based on knox flag status - so in that regard you might have a starting point in case you want to set some precedent - and I would LOVE such a precedent to be set (in a way that protects the consumer)!
Other than that all the stuff on how knox is used by Samsung to spy on you and follow your every move is really not helping anybody's cause (except maybe Samsung's).
My final point on this matter is that people with a LOT more technical knowledge on the subject than Absolon here (people like Chainfire or AndreiLux and plenty other) have commented on this, so people should really learn more about the subject before starting the wrong crusade born out of conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong - I WANT my consumer freedom, but I would also like that when legal precedents are set on the subject to have them set the right way, for the right reasons and with the right evidence (which will not be destroyed in court by Samsung lawyers in a day or less).
I'm following a good advice and removing any further comments.
I really want to work in a constructive manner and I do not with to petty fight. So please.
If anyone else want to help explore, please message me. We are on different levels of knowledge but that is all what XDA is about. To learn and to help!
All the best,
Abs
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
EdisDee said:
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, there are different views. Skander has one experience and that can be for one version.
For the I9505 the Knox did cause damage to the hardware and I did collect reports of findings and the majority was Wifi,
If this is the same for Note 3 I don't know. I write that I know, and what I think. We have free speech and I can have my thoughts and so can others.
It's rudeness and bluntness that should be avoided and I know that irony sometimes doesn't do as well on paper as in real life, but believe me, irony is the only thing that keeps me alive now days ;P
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
Edbert said:
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
Skander1998 said:
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting as does damage your phone software but not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 05:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------
MxFadzil92 said:
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting does damage your phone software changing of roms baseband kernel etc but still baseband all those stuff are still needed by the original manufacturer release not by cyanogemod for example new baseband are aquired by new tw rom new builds except for kernels which are aquired by githubs made by respective developers... But not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment. Rooting are the only way for us to try a new android platform build release by google... To wait for manufacturer release maaan could be months down the road. Sigh.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
MxFadzil92 said:
.too long.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do not stop you from rooting, they just re-affirm the million year old knowledge that rooting voids your warranty!
Bricking smartphones from rooting is very common, so does flashing kernels and whatnot, flashing kernels can actually allow someone to cause actual hardware damage to antennas, CPU's and GPU's and even kill the screen (in the note 2 for example, flashing an s3 recovery will burn the digitizer permanently)
Rooting also invalidates Knox's security completely, and any data there should be protected so they make it self destruct (the container) when rooted and the flag is there so after unrooting (and potentially having a still infected system) no one can activate a container anymore on the Smartphone.
This has side effects like the inability to root without detection, but the regular users you are talking about will not root their devices and so is 90+% of the users.
Knox is not an issue and nothing new, flashing anything from 2010 on any device voids your warranty, now it voids it with a permanent marker so you can't fool them and technically illegally get a repair from a broken warranty.
You break warranty terms even one of them, you don't get it.
xclub_101 said:
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with a company that does fair play you don't have to worry that they push something you don't want on your phone.
And they do. Don't be too sure that just because you turned your settings off that it protects you, because if you read through posts you will see that people got updates pushed, disregarding whatever setting you had. And that is certainly not fair play
But to answer your question. First. Just dropping names here and there doesn't do it. To ride on someones "fame" to gain more authority and merit to your post is bad rhetoric.
You should be able to do that on your own.
Yes, there are many who are way better then me, but the nice thing is that when you asked them, they know they once been there themselves and don't feel the need to project personal problems and anger on some random person they never met.
Just that we passed the 100 post mark and XDA automatically put a "senoir" next to the name means nothing more then we are good at bull****ting online,
Doesn't tell if you are 1337 or a n00b. Even if you post 10000 post doesn't mean that you have any deeper understanding.
But new users don't know that, and treating others without respect scares them away. Makes them afraid to ask. Who wants a snotty answer back on their first post?
So please. Make this a constructive place. If you are angry I recommend Reddit/Imgur/Flashback. There you can project whatever you want or need.
I don't know how to code a single line in Java!
But I'm awesome in C64 Basic!! And I managed to write "Hello World" in BF!
And I know several Asm's and I coded mostly in C (and C++ when it was still readable) and did my VHDL/Erlang-hell period (and I tested like 20++ other languages, some enforced during my master but some just for fun. I can write "Hello World!" in Sun's start eeprom!) but that was looong time ago. So I'm "rusty". Old. There are so many nifty new things. But then. Mostly I use something invented 200 years ago - A stethoscope. But there is a new COOL one! BT! With noise reduction and spectrum analysis! No more things that hurt in my ears! For the little sum of 1500 € it's yours!..... Bleh.
But I'm not ashamed of that! I can learn if I want. XDA is a great place for that. Even have their own Android University!
I'm fairly good with Unix. Even made money of it. For over 8 years. And the good with that is that some things we still use today haven't changed since 1973!
And I worked some with hardware but I need a new JTAG. Know a good one? So many to choose and I don't know the quality or what is needed?
Do the board even have pins or do you have to weld them? I hate welding!
You say conspiracy. I say concern and worry.
Why are people starting to get worried?
It's not as much as conspiracy then more why they are behaving like they do?
The fact is simple - the unknown
The word SELinux has come to more people now since it's mandatory in 4.3. The "moblie magazines", M3, Android** talks about the "news in 4.3".
But what is SELInux?
So people turn to the trusty Wikipedia for answers: Wikipedia - SELinux
And the first lines they see are
Security-Enhanced Linux (SELinux) is a Linux kernel security module that provides the mechanism for supporting access control security
policies, including United States Department of Defense-style mandatory access controls (MAC).
SELinux is a set of kernel modifications and user-space tools that can be added to various Linux distributions. Its architecture strives to
separate enforcement of security decisions from the security policy itself and streamlines the volume of software charged with security
policy enforcement.[1][2]
The key concepts underlying SELinux can be traced to several earlier projects by the United States National Security Agency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what people see!!
I can bet some even read "police" and not "policies". The see all this and that SCARES THEM.
With the recent scandals in mind of NSA hacking everything including the Germans Chancellors phone, an alley??
And here, the American spy-outpost towards Sovjet/Russia since 1947. We have also a 3-letter agency. And not many weeks ago there where front pages that they shared the databases with each other. So is that so hard to understand?
So to get from the unknowns they start to look
So you turn to Samsung for answers, And they treat you like cattle. And they stonewall you? No transparency whatsoever.
They reminds me of Nokia when they also went into "grandiose mode" and also through they could do whatever they please because of their total dominance. But they forgot one thing. The consumers got more and more unhappy. And they was their sole income. And when get got that in their heads it was too late. What are they now? Decimated to nothing. Trying desperately with a yet another attempt by Microsoft that is deemed to fail. How many times have Microsoft tried to get in on the hand-held market? I lost count.
And then they start to Google. XDA turns up like the first thing. Find their phone and see "Knox?"
(SELinux==NSA) --> Enterprise solution? On my private phone? Encryption? Damage? Container? What do I need THAT for?
"I don't want THAT on my phone! NSA. Enterprise. Container? Where is the opt out? There are none? I was NOT informed of this!"
That is what I find that worrying and I share that with many others.
Yes, some say it's just a flag. Not on S4. Look how many got problem with Wifi. I got them as well. And I knew when I broke my Knox.
Since SS goes all this trouble to hinder you to gain root access that they even had an E-fuse that does cause hardware damage.
To prevent "Triangle Away"? As your friend if he believes it's because of that?
I don't have to use SELinux to run code past your nose, root or not, but SELinux does it so much easier, since you can define it do hide processes from normal users and it has the possibility to run 3rd-party code. You know that, right?
Since we don't know what is run on the phone you can't be sure it's not something with some intent? So why not investigate it? What is going on in the phone?
Aren't you curious? I am. I would love to be able to root? Can I after #16 on MJ7?
But sure ask them, please. Give it a try
Ask them for example why Wifi stopped working after Knox was tripped on your S4?
Ask them what the extent of the damage they have done?
Ask them where this "Efuse data" is, on what address-range so you can avoid it? Data for a flag? Wasn't that just burned in?
Ask them why you can't update with Kies anymore? Wasn't that just a flag?
Ask them anything.
And I'm sure you will get a message back (if you get any) from "Steve". The poor overworked guy that serves the whole world and he always seems to write the same? We compared. He sits and write the same text over and over? "Sorry, we can't divulge this information at the moment".
Poor Steve!
Come back to the mother-continent! I promise, we've stopped flogging, guillotine, quartering and we changed the stake for a steak!
We have much more fun! 6 weeks of full paid vacation. Here in Sweden we have Polar bears! While we sit in our igloos and make watches.
And we have better beer as well!
If you see turning of a setting as a merit I think you should add that to your CV (and I was not alone in this).
I did as 99% of all do. Unpack the phone. Skip the instruction. Put in the sim and the sd-card and then turn it on.
BAM! I don't even think I had the time to enter my Gmail?
But you didn't. Great!
Here your knowledge would be useful! Help your fellow XDA members. In the spirit of XDA!
Can you dump the phone? Not block-wise but by reading the whole contact of the eeproms?
Can you compare your fstab and it sizes? Do they correspond to the space you have? If you dump them and compare it to the first, Do the differ much is size (a bit is natural)?
Can you use parted and list the partitions? Are all mounted? What rights do they have? Can you read them all?
The security policies in /system. What do they contain? See anything strange?
Can you compare what processes you see as a user and root?
Can you list the rules loaded in the kernel? MAC? (I think you need to compile the commands for it or get it from some Arm dist, they are not included)
Strace some processes that you don't recognize?
The kcryptd? What do they work against?
What files are open and locked? What does the stat say?
See kvm? Or are you in a kvm?
Here you can actually ACT and DO something constructive and concrete or is this just, as from my compressor, high pressured air comming from your side?
Time will tell I guess.
For the others that have messaged me: A BIG BIG THANK YOU!
And no, I don't have enough volunteers, if you do have this configuration, mess me. Or test sometime from test list. The dumping should be used by experienced users but you can do a lot on that list and you can zip and sent me some files. Rules, Pipe out the process lists.
I don't care how much you can or can't. Ask away! We started at the beginning somewhere and I will do my best, ask around, and TOGETHER, we might get some result, because we want to DO something and maybe we CAN help right? Either we find something or we don't. If we are sure and can say "The system seems clean". That would calm a LOT people down. Including me.
/Abs
And with this I won't go into more arguments about this. It's enough. I saw this as an excellent solution to see and check. Not to argue.
I already lost too much time on bla bla bla. I want to spend the time I have on things that matter. My friends that have their phones destroyed.
Use the list or make another! All seem to have their own experiences/views. Samsung must love this division.
Just DO something! Like in all research: Stipulate, challenge, prove, disprove, confirm, dismiss. Start over.
If you need to vent, you can PM me as well, Xblub.
Regarding Samsung's "Warranty Bit" Sh**(Originally from http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=49345592)
For those of you who are as ticked off as I am about Samsung's new warranty bit/voided warranty behavior due to a suspected E-fuse in their latest devices, YOU (yes, YOU) need to speak up and make sure that Samsung executives are starkly aware of who pays for their 50' yachts and their effing Bentleys! Tell them that your support for them is easily dissolved and that this new "practice" of theirs is one of the quickest and easiest ways to dissolve it.
Consumers are the ones who pay Samsung's bills. This is a truth that they would rather not acknowledge, but given a force that's great enough in numbers, they will yield to the will of their consumers.
Just look at Microsoft and Windows 8 (8.1), as well as their recent release of Office 2013 (license transfer). Microsoft has got to be one of THE most stubborn corporations in the world right now, but even they have yielded to the overwhelming force that is the consumer, and more specifically, their bank accounts. Ever heard the phrase "money talks"? Oh, it most certainly talks.. We as consumers have the ability to make our money talk collectively, so, if we want to see an end to this new way that they're giving their customers the shaft, we need to join voices and speak UP.
Drown them with emails, light up their tech support lines, and paint this picture for them as clearly as you can. Tell them that you WILL NOT continue to purchase their devices when they deny warranty service simply because of a "warranty bit", or for other ridiculous and non-sensical reasons, and tell them that Knox should come as an OPTION and NOT A MANDATE. I've listed a few ways to do that below. If anyone else has other/better ways of doing so, then by all means, share with the class.
Samsung USA's online customer feedback form: https://contactus.samsung.com/customer/contactus/formmail/mail/MailQuestionProduct.jsp?SITE_ID=1&titleCode=1
Samsung USA's toll-free customer service phone number: 1-855-SAM-USA1 (1-855-726-8721) 9am – 9pm ET, 7 days a week
Samsung Mobile USA's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobileUSA
If there's a forum on XDA Developers or ANY OTHER WEBSITE where you think this post might help spread the word about this, then you have my expressed written consent to copy this entire post (verbatim, from beginning to end please, including this part at the bottom) and re-post it WHEREVER you think it might help this cause. I've attached a text file that includes this post, as well as all the formatting/coloring (Attention Re-Poster: please re-attach the same text file).
Go, contact Samsung NOW!
(Reserved)
Every Android phone I've ever bought came out of warranty when rooted. In Note 3, Samsung just found a way to detect rooting, that's all. Nothing else changed, so I don't think this is going to have much effect.
aydc said:
Every Android phone I've ever bought came out of warranty when rooted. In Note 3, Samsung just found a way to detect rooting, that's all. Nothing else changed, so I don't think this is going to have much effect.
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But you even cant flash stock FW, nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag. Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox? Most expensive device, with many weaknesses that they didn't address, but they forced us to accept knox. No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2. And everything with no clear explanation!? I won't buy their product soon!
Sent from my GT-I9505
jjnhl68 said:
But you even cant flash stock FW, nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag. Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox? Most expensive device, with many weaknesses that they didn't address, but they forced us to accept knox. No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2. And everything with no clear explanation!? I won't buy their product soon!
Sent from my GT-I9505
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Good - don't.
Knox is included and everyone knows that, it's in the box and everywhere.
Downgrading is a security risk and rooting is technically an exploit.
Knox uses very little RAM (if you uninstall the main apk which doesn't even require root)
I can't believe we're still talking about ram usage of some small apps even if we've got 2/3 gbs of ram to spare...
Skander1998 said:
Good - don't.
Knox is included and everyone knows that, it's in the box and everywhere.
Downgrading is a security risk and rooting is technically an exploit.
Knox uses very little RAM (if you uninstall the main apk which doesn't even require root)
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But then, KNOX using no RAM would be better. If half the owners of Note3 don't use KNOX, what's the point in it even using any?
Why have a device that's so powerful but then put on software that just hogs. 2.5GB memory yet the TouchWiz and the other crap that Samsung put in it take up so much.
OP, after reading your post, I find it very difficult to comprehend the exact purpose and reasoning that you are trying to convey. After all, it sounds that you are merely butthurt that you got denied warranty because you tampered with your device.
However, you must try to understand how the business world works first.
Your issue is a problem that a miniscule portion of the market experiences. Those of us who consider themselves "leet haxxorz" tend to enjoy tinkering with their devices to streamline the user experience. However, things often go wrong - phones and tablets get bricked. Then the frustrated consumer heads back to Samsung to demand repair/exchange.
As a corporation, Samsung must have noticed that this was costing them a significant amount of money, and hence KNOX was created as a comprehensive tool with a feature to instantly diagnose whether product has been tampered with.
The average user that understands absolutely nothing about technology could care less whether KNOX exists or not.
And as long as KNOX will save the company money in the long run, your persistent complaints will accomplish absolutely nothing. Don't forget that we represent a fairly insignificant portion of the market. Encouraging users to tamper with products encourages liability which costs money. Money that no company is willing to pay.
The only advice I can offer you is to ensure you are not voiding any sort of warranty before you partake in certain activities. By doing research I was able to avoid the 0x1 situation, and retain my warranty. Of course, I had to sacrifice rooting and installing a custom ROM.
jjnhl68 said:
But you even cant flash stock FW...which will lead to 0x1 flag...
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no ppl have flashed stock roms without tripping their knox..
jjnhl68 said:
...nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag...
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as the other user said this can be considered a security issue so you have no argument..
jjnhl68 said:
...Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox?...
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its like any other "bloat", do you use any of those apps? do you cry about those apps?
jjnhl68 said:
..Most expensive device, with many weaknesses..
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what weaknesses? and it isnt most expensive anymore... :angel:
jjnhl68 said:
...No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2...
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how do you plan on doing that? as the note 3 came with 4.3
jjnhl68 said:
...And everything with no clear explanation!?...
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the word "knox" is printed EVERYWHERE.. what more are they supposed to do to make users "aware"
jjnhl68 said:
... I won't buy their product soon!...
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only part of your post that i agree with :laugh:
PS- next time you want a big company to do what YOU want...try doing research and not make silly mistakes that can make your argument really weak
Khizar said:
no ppl have flashed stock roms without tripping their knox..
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Also ppl have flashed with tripping their knox!!!
Khizar said:
as the other user said this can be considered a security issue so you have no argument..
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And I should loose my warranty because of that???
Khizar said:
its like any other "bloat", do you use any of those apps? do you cry about those apps?
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See my point!!! No need for bloat, ok?
Khizar said:
what weaknesses? and it isnt most expensive anymore... :angel:
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It was when i have bought it!!! For 6 months my phone was 3 times in service for repairs under warranty (microphone, speaker, display defects)
We all know about weak points of S4, we are using them, aren't we?
Khizar said:
how do you plan on doing that? as the note 3 came with 4.3
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I was on 4.2.2 in time of buying
Khizar said:
the word "knox" is printed EVERYWHERE.. what more are they supposed to do to make users "aware"
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Khizar said:
only part of your post that i agree with :laugh:
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Khizar said:
PS- next time you want a big company to do what YOU want...try doing research and not make silly mistakes that can make your argument really weak
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As I already said, in summer 2013. you couldn't know Samsung's intentions, ok?
On any phone rooting or tampering with your phone voids your warranty no questions asked.
On every root thread the first thing is a warning telling you your warranty is now void.
Your malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and fake it to get free servicing is now not possible hence the whining.
PS: flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)
Personally I mostly agree with the OP. I actually posted a couple of posts in here detailing my email to Samsung Australia and responses and they have vanished - no explanation.
I think the argument that, 'it is clear it has Knox so don't whine about it' is specious and ignores the fact there are 5.4 million members on XDA, most of whom would take exception to being told they can't mod their phones.
I have rooted and not lost Knox, but I also would like more access to my phones without voiding warranty. There are reasons. I want root because the apps I prefer to use require it. Titanium and Greenify are very handy to have and both require root.
I want a custom recovery because a Nandroid backup is the only way I know of to back up a phone that includes all screens, all screen layouts and widgets and can put your phone back just like you had it without having to sit for hours recreating the layout. I backup my calls, SMS, contacts and apps, but the restore is painful. A nandroid makes it simple and you can't do it in stock recovery.
I have no complaints at present about the kernel, but I had a lot of pleasure with my S3 playing with different ROM's using Siyah or GoogyMax - when I have a few months on my Note 3 I will venture down that path, but electronics follow the bathtup curve so I'd like to make sure I'm on the bottom of the bath before I risk warranty.
As I said to Samsung, they appear to have made a choice to follow the Apple line, but more extreme, (you can jailbreak an Apple and return it to stock for warranty purposes) most likely in the hope of becoming the next Blackberry. (i.e. Corporate standard phone) but I think they would have been far better to NOT annoy their current customers who are mostly private individuals and bring out a different but similar phone for Corporates. (I make the assumption about the type of users because I can't recall seeing anyone in the S3, Note, S4 Zoom or Note 3 forums with problems to do with Enterprise sysapps, Enterprise setups, or even Exchange services - to me that suggests very few users are using them)
Journyman16 said:
Personally I mostly agree with the OP. I actually posted a couple of posts in here detailing my email to Samsung Australia and responses and they have vanished - no explanation.
I think the argument that, 'it is clear it has Knox so don't whine about it' is specious and ignores the fact there are 5.4 million members on XDA, most of whom would take exception to being told they can't mod their phones.
I have rooted and not lost Knox, but I also would like more access to my phones without voiding warranty. There are reasons. I want root because the apps I prefer to use require it. Titanium and Greenify are very handy to have and both require root.
I want a custom recovery because a Nandroid backup is the only way I know of to back up a phone that includes all screens, all screen layouts and widgets and can put your phone back just like you had it without having to sit for hours recreating the layout. I backup my calls, SMS, contacts and apps, but the restore is painful. A nandroid makes it simple and you can't do it in stock recovery.
I have no complaints at present about the kernel, but I had a lot of pleasure with my S3 playing with different ROM's using Siyah or GoogyMax - when I have a few months on my Note 3 I will venture down that path, but electronics follow the bathtup curve so I'd like to make sure I'm on the bottom of the bath before I risk warranty.
As I said to Samsung, they appear to have made a choice to follow the Apple line, but more extreme, (you can jailbreak an Apple and return it to stock for warranty purposes) most likely in the hope of becoming the next Blackberry. (i.e. Corporate standard phone) but I think they would have been far better to NOT annoy their current customers who are mostly private individuals and bring out a different but similar phone for Corporates. (I make the assumption about the type of users because I can't recall seeing anyone in the S3, Note, S4 Zoom or Note 3 forums with problems to do with Enterprise sysapps, Enterprise setups, or even Exchange services - to me that suggests very few users are using them)
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i cannot agree with you more.
its all about consumer rights and samdung has no rights to force enterprise solutions on private individuals who have no use for NSA grade security.
however,we have samdung fanboys here who keep defending corporate right more than consumer rights...even going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not.
The logic of not being able to downgrade to a older bootloader and not tripping knox is absolute bullcrap.afterall,it is samdung's official ROM and flashing it trips knox and samdung claims you are trying to be funny with their devices(yeah,that's right,you pay top dollars for their phones and it does not belong to you.PERIOD),so what does that tell you?
samdung going the way of apple and trying to be a corporate phone ala blackberry????
Bi*ch please, blackberry was the top corporate device coz its secured as hell.but jus look at how many ppl actually want to use a blackberry to take pictures,listen to music,surf the net,play games on it or hell even show it to frds they have a new model.
samdung,you have the best hardware in the market,i'll give you that.but your TW sucks,loaded with bloatware and is at best irritable when compared with any custom rom and laughable when compare with CM.
with knox,you can have it.no more samdung's knox-pox time for me to switch to something more friendly.
I do not know why everyone is *****ing about KNOX, I had a look at it after reading the OP's post, from what I can see, and I might be wrong, BUT you actually need to INSTALL it first, otherwise it it just sits there doing nothing. do not like it or want to use it, then DO NOT INSTALL IT, or just disable the KNOX install file, SIMPLE.
frostmore said:
however,we have samdung fanboys here who keep defending corporate right more than consumer rights...even going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not.
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This is really uncalled for, it has ALWAYS been the case that if you root your phone, you lose your warranty. In this case samsung track it by flipping a bit, so they know when you have voided the warranty, many other devices handle this in the form of bootloader unlocks. Once you unlock a bootloader on other devices the process is recorded, purely to void your warranty. This is nothing new, perhaps attaching the name KNOX to it has given you the idea that it is corporate security etc. If it were simply called "Warranty void bit" it would be no more or less related to knox (it just happens that knox shares some of the security mechanisms with how the bit is controlled).
And while we are talking about consumer rights. As the manufacturer of a product it is their right to refuse warranty due to tampering with the software. Maybe with the warranty void bit they can save a few bucks in warranty fraud from people who break their devices with root. As for "going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not" I've already stated that it has always been the case that if you tamper with the software your device warranty is void. Hell, Samsung have had some of the most lax security policies over their devices for the past few years with regards to tracking tampering. Next thing you know you will be complaining that unlocking the bootloader on your sony device is irreversible, or that unlocking your HTC device leaves traces even after relock.
lilstevie said:
This is really uncalled for, it has ALWAYS been the case that if you root your phone, you lose your warranty. In this case samsung track it by flipping a bit, so they know when you have voided the warranty, many other devices handle this in the form of bootloader unlocks. Once you unlock a bootloader on other devices the process is recorded, purely to void your warranty. This is nothing new, perhaps attaching the name KNOX to it has given you the idea that it is corporate security etc. If it were simply called "Warranty void bit" it would be no more or less related to knox (it just happens that knox shares some of the security mechanisms with how the bit is controlled).
And while we are talking about consumer rights. As the manufacturer of a product it is their right to refuse warranty due to tampering with the software. Maybe with the warranty void bit they can save a few bucks in warranty fraud from people who break their devices with root. As for "going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not" I've already stated that it has always been the case that if you tamper with the software your device warranty is void. Hell, Samsung have had some of the most lax security policies over their devices for the past few years with regards to tracking tampering. Next thing you know you will be complaining that unlocking the bootloader on your sony device is irreversible, or that unlocking your HTC device leaves traces even after relock.
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Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
frostmore said:
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
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And compared to some devices that don't even let you downgrade at all, whether you want to void your warranty or not are any different because?
frostmore said:
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
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Okay, first of all, using terms like "samdung" is just making you sound like a petulant child. It really does not help your case at all. Secondly, you are contradicting yourself in one swoop here, saying that they should be able to protect their rights, but they shouldn't have a mechanism to be able to protect their rights.
frostmore said:
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
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Please tell me what the difference is. Sure I get why you want to use Greenify, or TB, but tell me how from the perspective of the manufacturer how they can tell the difference on a broken phone. Why should the OEM have to pay for all those devices bricked through stupid actions of users with root access (and it is more common than you think) for the benefit of the few that will not destroy their device in the process.
frostmore said:
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.
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Samsungs policy towards warranty is your device is excluded through the act of modification, that is to hardware or software. Sony and HTC have a similar policy rooting, in fact I don't think I have seen any device on the market where the warranty is maintained on rooting. Please note here, I'm not saying that people haven't gotten their devices repaired after rooting. I'm simply noting the act of rooting in most territories around the world constitutes breach of terms for the warranty and therefore makes that null and void.
frostmore said:
with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
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Um, no. Samsung are like "we are okay with everything, but note that modification of the software on your device constitutes voiding your warranty". Unless you have a carrier variant like an AT&T device or Verizon device the bootloader is unlocked, as in, it was never locked down in the first place, you can open up heimdall or odin with the device connected in download mode, and flash it to your hearts content. Downgrading is a tricky situation. Samsung are well within their rights, and in some cases required to as per IP licensing to keep the boot environment secure.
frostmore said:
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
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You mean consumer rights that people have been abusing for years?
frostmore said:
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
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I don't worry I'm no fanboy of any device. I am however one that is a firm supporter that if people hadn't been abusing the warranty procedures that these sorts of measures would never have been implemented.
If I have administrator rights in my computer why I can't have the same in my phone?
Does being an administrator in your windows desktop computer void your warranty?
Why I can't unninstal all the apps that I don't use?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
frostmore said:
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
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Ha ha, Samdung!! Like Samsung but like dung. Aww man, did you come up with yourself? That is brilliant
AllanJ60 said:
I do not know why everyone is *****ing about KNOX, I had a look at it after reading the OP's post, from what I can see, and I might be wrong, BUT you actually need to INSTALL it first, otherwise it it just sits there doing nothing. do not like it or want to use it, then DO NOT INSTALL IT, or just disable the KNOX install file, SIMPLE.
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*grins* Yep, you are right... you're wrong. It isn't the Knox software people are upset about, it is the Knox counter that is built in. It is set at 0x0 and if you do anything with your phone except take Samsung OTA updates, which have been tightened even further once they realised the Devs had found a way around their little booby trap, you trigger a change of state in that counter to 0x1.
It is supposed to be irreversible and you can trigger it by doing things Android users have been doing since Android came out. A good number of what are now standard apps require root access and providing that will trigger Knox. As pointed out, if you decide you don't like a particular OTA update (say to KitKat) and try to go back to a previous version (say the one your phone came with) you trigger Knox.
And Samsung is voiding warranties because Knox is triggered. Blanket voiding as far as can be determined. Doesn't matter if there's a hardware issue (say the charge circuit stopped) they will void because that trigger is at 0x1.
As the title say do samsung service centers really bother to check the knox counter or probably do they really know what knox is or what "root" is? has anyone tried taking their phone with tripped knox counter to service center?
there have been many instances atleast in india where most of the service center people fix rooted/bricked phones for free as they dont even get to know phone is rooted or rather dont know what root is this is the true for atleast for lg and sony and samsung for old models!
so anyone here has tried or has any idea on it please post a reply!
+1
I heard that a tripped Knox counter in Europe doesn't affect the warranty. So European service centers shouldn't care. But not sure though. I didn't have to take my phone to a service center so far.
But for other countries I don't know.
Hi everyone, I've find these links on Italian blog about android, theoretically in Europe root is legit.
The 2nd link it's about European law of private use of things, smartphone it's a "thing" so there are any kind of problem.
If someone have something to report about warranty in Europe please reply.
Cheers
Link Samsung knox
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
Link Europe law
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...GQDnGyYvpJJDJ1!804705131?uri=CELEX:31999L0044
I doubt it. They can un-trip it any time and it's not like the software can permanently affect the hardware.
I've sent in LG, Sony, Nokia and Motorola phones which were modded or running non carrier roms and they all came back factory formatted.
bhavstech said:
As the title say do samsung service centers really bother to check the knox counter or probably do they really know what knox is or what "root" is? has anyone tried taking their phone with tripped knox counter to service center?
there have been many instances atleast in india where most of the service center people fix rooted/bricked phones for free as they dont even get to know phone is rooted or rather dont know what root is this is the true for atleast for lg and sony and samsung for old models!
so anyone here has tried or has any idea on it please post a reply!
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I spoke with a Samsung rep this weekend and asked about the Camera2 API and if he knew when it would be implemented in the S6. Event though I know of the API, he responded by starting to give the usual sales pitch about the S6 camera. I said I understood, and I love the camera, but it would be nice to have shutter control and RAW (even though I really don't have interest in either - I just wanted information). He said "I shouldn't recommend this, but there is a thing called "rooting" your phone..." and I interrupted and said "But that will trip Knox, disable Samsung Pay, and void the warranty, right?" He paused, probably confused that I knew since he's used to the general public (and I know NOTHING compared to most users in these forums), and said "Yes to all three. It does trip Knox and will disable Samsung Pay, and it will also void the hardware warranty. Samsung will still help with software issues, but not with hardware issues."
So, I may have come across the one rep that knows all this, but I'm certain that the service center guys absolutely know about Knox and root. what they will do, I don't know, but remember that they are in business to make a profit, and you rooting your phone gives them a legal "out" to not spend their time and money fixing a phone on which you voided the warranty.
But there are always exceptions and maybe you'll be the guy that slips through. (I'm never the guy that gets the breaks.)
DevonSloan said:
I spoke with a Samsung rep this weekend and asked about the Camera2 API and if he knew when it would be implemented in the S6. Event though I know of the API, he responded by starting to give the usual sales pitch about the S6 camera. I said I understood, and I love the camera, but it would be nice to have shutter control and RAW (even though I really don't have interest in either - I just wanted information). He said "I shouldn't recommend this, but there is a thing called "rooting" your phone..." and I interrupted and said "But that will trip Knox, disable Samsung Pay, and void the warranty, right?" He paused, probably confused that I knew since he's used to the general public (and I know NOTHING compared to most users in these forums), and said "Yes to all three. It does trip Knox and will disable Samsung Pay, and it will also void the hardware warranty. Samsung will still help with software issues, but not with hardware issues."
So, I may have come across the one rep that knows all this, but I'm certain that the service center guys absolutely know about Knox and root. what they will do, I don't know, but remember that they are in business to make a profit, and you rooting your phone gives them a legal "out" to not spend their time and money fixing a phone on which you voided the warranty.
But there are always exceptions and maybe you'll be the guy that slips through. (I'm never the guy that gets the breaks.)
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thanks for the info
Deleted...
Leaving Verizon.
Sharpie603 said:
Recently Verizon has shown their true colors. They do NOT want to give us control of a device that we bought and paid for. (That's like buying a radio that only plays Country).
In my eyes. If we pay you monthly then why do you care what we do with our device? We own it right?
However, after days of researching and very knowledgeable co-workers..... The solution is here.
ODIN 3.10. That's Correct. ODIN 3.10 has the ability to look past the locked bootloader and grant access to roll back. This was not made to be public but (Thank GOD) was leaked on Aug 26th.
You can download ODIN 3.10 here: http://www.theandroidsoul.com/download/download-odin-3-10-6/
I have not yet tried to root after rolling back to the BOA8 Kernel. Anyone want to test this out and let me know if you were able to root after downgrading?
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So you were able to downgrade from OG5 to OA8, just by using the 3.10 version of ODIN? Has anybody else tried this yet?
scadilla said:
So you were able to downgrade from OG5 to OA8, just by using the 3.10 version of ODIN? Has anybody else tried this yet?
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Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Sharpie603 said:
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
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I'm definitely following this thread!!! Thanks for the info Sharpie603!!! Man... I really hope you're successful!!! I'm ROOTing for you! (Pun intended! Damn I'm funny! No?!?! Anyone???) LOL
Sharpie603 said:
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
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Click to collapse
Ah, OK, that makes sense so the thinking is if you are on OG5 with the locked bootloader that you could downgrade the kernel and then root. I'll be following closely as well.
scadilla said:
Ah, OK, that makes sense so the thinking is if you are on OG5 with the locked bootloader that you could downgrade the kernel and then root. I'll be following closely as well.
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Not looking very promising.
Can you downgrade APNHLOS?
Terribly misleading title. OE1 and OG5 didn't do anything about locking the kernel, they were bootloader locks. As you said, unless you can downgrade which you can't. The only way this would be useful is if we could get root by only downgrading the kernel, which we cannot. We could access safestrap if we HAD root access, because we could flash the NI2 kernel to get access, but no root = no safestrap.
I don't think you made a discovery, I think you just came across what wasn't stated bluntly, simply because it wasn't necessary information to tell people. As for your quest to find a way to root.... I'm just going to say, have fun.
In regards to the OP's statement - Verizon could care less about the rooting community and allowing you to do what you want with your "owned" devices. Verizon and AT&T locked the phones down tight as they should because this is a portable personal computer with all your financial information being transferred back and forth. Tightening the security of the phone against hackers trying to steal all your information and identity had the unfortunate side effect of making root near impossible currently. The device performs exactly as advertised on the box and in the specifications. Your analogy of a radio stuck on country is a poor one. Think more like you bought a car and it will not go 200 miles an hour. There is nothing preventing you from purchasing a car that can, or replacing the engine to do so which would have other downfalls such as gas mileage going to crap. In the same analogy you can purchase a T-Mobile motherboard, swap it out, be able to root, but not get certain LTE bands. Verizon has not targeted you at all...you can blame the hackers constantly trying to get information off the phones. Verizon and AT&T took steps to try to prevent that and of course increase profits by being rated the most secure phones out there. Verizon never gave you the keys to root...ever! So they are not keeping this info from you. Just like every device that took a little time to find root, it is up to you and the developers to find away around it.
This is the same as saying Acme safe company is trying to keep you from being rich because they made their safes more secure.
Spartan117H3 said:
Terribly misleading title. OE1 and OG5 didn't do anything about locking the kernel, they were bootloader locks. As you said, unless you can downgrade which you can't. The only way this would be useful is if we could get root by only downgrading the kernel, which we cannot. We could access safestrap if we HAD root access, because we could flash the NI2 kernel to get access, but no root = no safestrap.
I don't think you made a discovery, I think you just came across what wasn't stated bluntly, simply because it wasn't necessary information to tell people. As for your quest to find a way to root.... I'm just going to say, have fun.
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Click to collapse
The title is not misleading at all. It does exactly what I described. Gives you the ability to downgrade the Kernel. and the Kernel only. I clearly mentioned this in post #3 that this still leaves the bootloader locked. then in later posts went on to mention that it looks like we are still SOL. Take it how you want, sorry for actively trying to find a solution...
KennyG123 said:
In regards to the OP's statement - Verizon could care less about the rooting community and allowing you to do what you want with your "owned" devices. Verizon and AT&T locked the phones down tight as they should because this is a portable personal computer with all your financial information being transferred back and forth. Tightening the security of the phone against hackers trying to steal all your information and identity had the unfortunate side effect of making root near impossible currently. The device performs exactly as advertised on the box and in the specifications. Your analogy of a radio stuck on country is a poor one. Think more like you bought a car and it will not go 200 miles an hour. There is nothing preventing you from purchasing a car that can, or replacing the engine to do so which would have other downfalls such as gas mileage going to crap. In the same analogy you can purchase a T-Mobile motherboard, swap it out, be able to root, but not get certain LTE bands. Verizon has not targeted you at all...you can blame the hackers constantly trying to get information off the phones. Verizon and AT&T took steps to try to prevent that and of course increase profits by being rated the most secure phones out there. Verizon never gave you the keys to root...ever! So they are not keeping this info from you. Just like every device that took a little time to find root, it is up to you and the developers to find away around it.
This is the same as saying Acme safe company is trying to keep you from being rich because they made their safes more secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Sharpie603 said:
The title is not misleading at all. It does exactly what I described. Gives you the ability to downgrade the Kernel. and the Kernel only. I clearly mentioned this in post #3 that this still leaves the bootloader locked. then in later posts went on to mention that it looks like we are still SOL. Take it how you want, sorry for actively trying to find a solution...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is misleading because you mark it as solved as if it was a puzzle that nobody else can figured out, like you had new information to provide. If I'm not mistaken, the kernel was never locked, and you can use any Odin to push a different kernel. It was never a question if the kernel was locked. So you didn't do anything except state what was redundant. The people who confirm that the bootloader is locked say so because it means you can't downgrade. They didn't say you can still downgrade the kernel because it's absolutely meaningless. That's like saying, the bootloader is locked, but you can still Odin and flash any file you want even if it doesn't work.
There are countless people like you in other threads who claim they're trying to find a way to root. Neither you nor I are smart enough to come up with an exploit, as I have detailed countless times before. So why don't we leave that up to the developers?
Sharpie603 said:
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter if you don't care yourself, because you are not everyone. You are a single person. If you were everyone, obviously Verizon wouldn't make money off you, and wouldn't secure their phones. But this is flawed reasoning yet again.
A bad analogy shows you have flawed reasoning. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you don't have a problem with stating things that don't make sense, then by all means, continue (which I don't even have to say, because you do indeed continue).
Slander? Are you serious? You acknowledge the reason for his post, which claims you have a bad analogy, and explains why Verizon does what it does. Then you make an insane, baseless claim that says xda discourages root. Yet XDA was where the original root method was released in detail, with the newsworthy 18k bouty.
Why does he need to explain why it wouldn't work, when you yourself have already done that? It's the same when you responded to me. You answer your own question but then argue against people when they confirm with your latter findings that it doesn't work?
I don't understand why people like you are so happy to see 1 posters support you, but then immediately get hostile when anyone with any knowledge comes in to speak. You running from Verizon doesn't solve any problems and shows you weren't invested to begin with, which is fine, since you wouldn't have accomplished anything anyway. Unless you're claiming to be smarter than those who found the original root.
You want to know why it won't work? All these people have similar ideas to yours, they either want root, or want to "try" with little to no knowledge at all about what they are doing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62378933&postcount=19
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62380538&postcount=23
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/vz-replacement-s5-oe1-t3190365
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...g5-verizon-t3192598/post62746265#post62746265
Spartan117H3 said:
It is misleading because you mark it as solved as if it was a puzzle that nobody else can figured out, like you had new information to provide. If I'm not mistaken, the kernel was never locked, and you can use any Odin to push a different kernel. It was never a question if the kernel was locked. So you didn't do anything except state what was redundant. The people who confirm that the bootloader is locked say so because it means you can't downgrade. They didn't say you can still downgrade the kernel because it's absolutely meaningless. That's like saying, the bootloader is locked, but you can still Odin and flash any file you want even if it doesn't work.
There are countless people like you in other threads who claim they're trying to find a way to root. Neither you nor I are smart enough to come up with an exploit, as I have detailed countless times before. So why don't we leave that up to the developers?
It doesn't matter if you don't care yourself, because you are not everyone. You are a single person. If you were everyone, obviously Verizon wouldn't make money off you, and wouldn't secure their phones. But this is flawed reasoning yet again.
A bad analogy shows you have flawed reasoning. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you don't have a problem with stating things that don't make sense, then by all means, continue (which I don't even have to say, because you do indeed continue).
Slander? Are you serious? You acknowledge the reason for his post, which claims you have a bad analogy, and explains why Verizon does what it does. Then you make an insane, baseless claim that says xda discourages root. Yet XDA was where the original root method was released in detail, with the newsworthy 18k bouty.
Why does he need to explain why it wouldn't work, when you yourself have already done that? It's the same when you responded to me. You answer your own question but then argue against people when they confirm with your latter findings that it doesn't work?
I don't understand why people like you are so happy to see 1 posters support you, but then immediately get hostile when anyone with any knowledge comes in to speak. You running from Verizon doesn't solve any problems and shows you weren't invested to begin with, which is fine, since you wouldn't have accomplished anything anyway. Unless you're claiming to be smarter than those who found the original root.
You want to know why it won't work? All these people have similar ideas to yours, they either want root, or want to "try" with little to no knowledge at all about what they are doing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62378933&postcount=19
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62380538&postcount=23
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/vz-replacement-s5-oe1-t3190365
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...g5-verizon-t3192598/post62746265#post62746265
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Click to collapse
Listen I came here thinking I found a way. In no way was trying to start a war among like minded individuals. All you are doing is trying to ream me out for what? For a mistake I made, thinking I had a solution? Way to be professional. Sorry for cluttering the forum. Sorry for everything I have done thus far. Sorry for bothering you sir. Sorry for not being as knowledgeable as you are. I'm sorry for everything! F*ck
Sharpie603 said:
Listen I came here thinking I found a way. In no way was trying to start a war among like minded individuals. All you are doing is trying to ream me out for what? For a mistake I made, thinking I had a solution? Way to be professional. Sorry for cluttering the forum. Sorry for everything I have done thus far. Sorry for bothering you sir. Sorry for not being as knowledgeable as you are. I'm sorry for everything! F*ck
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Click to collapse
The problem is, you just assume things without actually comprehending what people say. That's why you believe this is apparently a war. Ream you out? You miss the entire point, repeatedly. All it is is people telling you why your statements don't make any sense.
Sharpie603 said:
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated that is just YOU. 99.9% of people do not want their phone hacked or their identity stolen.
How is stating the facts slander? And I think I would know best what is encouraged here and what isn't. Now you are just lashing out for no reason and making no sense.
I guess we can close this as you wished. Thanks for trying.
Hi mates,
I've unlocked the bootloader to root with magisk, but since this phone as lots of problems I would like to sell it, but how I can sell it with that stupid warning message about the bootloader unlocked.
I flashed the stock firmware but I saw that is it impossible to Re-Lock the bootloader or better I didn't find a way. (unlocking is so easy damn)
Is there anyone with a possible solution?
Just to be clear my Knox has been tripped 0x1 and I guess this will complicate the overall things.
thinking:
Just wondering why doing things so complex, it is just the root permission . i'm administrator of my laptop and nobody is worry about it even if I'm using bank application on it...So don't say it is for security reasons this is to frustrate people avoiding them to do their own business with a device they paid...
No words!!
thanks
Once your Knox has been tripped, you can't revert it.
The 0x1 you are reading is a hardware fuse that is physically blown. you can' "unblow" that fuse.
You are stuck with the warning screen forever.
That has been stated in all tutorials for unlocking bootloader with knox though.
thank for you reply.
I know about Knox state and e-fuse but I want to re-lock the bootloader not set know to 0x0 that is not possible..
Maybe there will be the warning forever but it is in Chinese and nobody understand it (ahahah) but locking back the bootloader should give me back Netflix on play store (if you sell the phone everybody wants Netflix imho) all the rests I don't care.
Hi, I got it and solve my problem, thanks to this guide
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=79698366&postcount=44 .
Thanks to @robbo1947 for posting the solution for the S10 that is working also for the Note 10
Just for everyone information the boot warning disappear when you re-lock the bootload.
have good day
at least you should tell the seller about that situation, or I wish the seller will quickly figure out what you are doing and return the phone to you. To be honest, if I am the seller and I know you are hiding something, I will be pissed off. Never think you can escape from your cheating so easily. cheers.
It is not my intention to fraud anybody. I will sell the phone clearly specify the situation to the future buyer.
My intention was just putting the phone usable for a normal person that doesn't care about Knox 0x1 and the not working Samsung apps (pass, pay, secure folder).
I'm honest and I would avoid problems when I sell something, so don't be worry I will explain everything as I have always done!
However thanks for sharing your opinion that I 100% agree.
p3dr01978 said:
It is not my intention to fraud anybody. I will sell the phone clearly specify the situation to the future buyer.
My intention was just putting the phone usable for a normal person that doesn't care about Knox 0x1 and the not working Samsung apps (pass, pay, secure folder).
I'm honest and I would avoid problems when I sell something, so don't be worry I will explain everything as I have always done!
However thanks for sharing your opinion that I 100% agree.
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Click to collapse
Personally, I think it good of you to share what you have accomplished. That is what forums like this were created in thr first place. I think the previous comment was an insult to your character and based on assumption with a warning. Whatever lol, I wil say honest is the best policy and a disclosure a must.
On a litter note, Dam you sure took a big risk on such an expensive phone.
I'm aware of risks and it was intentional doing root since I bought the n9700 snapdragon version in China and i'm European and I did it to unlock all the bands and aggregation available in the world .... it worked using QPST and QDXM but I discovered later that rooting was not needed ...my fault ...
if someone would like to understand how to unlock bands and aggregations let me know
Bye bye
p3dr01978 said:
I'm aware of risks and it was intentional doing root since I bought the n9700 snapdragon version in China and i'm European and I did it to unlock all the bands and aggregation available in the world .... it worked using QPST and QDXM but I discovered later that rooting was not needed ...my fault ...
if someone would like to understand how to unlock bands and aggregations let me know
Bye bye
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like this info....
I was just thinking to myself whether anyone has tried this.
Sent from my God Mode 8
louforgiveno said:
I would like this info....
I was just thinking to myself whether anyone has tried this.
Sent from my God Mode 8
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Click to collapse
Yeah me too. I will be living in Jakarta and just picked up the Snapdrgon 10 plus from the USA unlocked. I know bands in use are different for each carrier and have tried the ×#*#4636#*#* with some success on an LG v30 rooted.
Hi,
I will write a specific guide. But it is tested only on the Note 10 - N9700 not any other version.
Give me few days to write it.
mayad79 said:
Yeah me too. I will be living in Jakarta and just picked up the Snapdrgon 10 plus from the USA unlocked. I know bands in use are different for each carrier and have tried the ×#*#4636#*#* with some success on an LG v30 rooted.
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Click to collapse
I am considering buying the HK version of the Note 10+.
What were the problems that resulted in your decision to sell?
Hi
I decided to sell it due to the Samsung ecosystem itself. nothing specific I was curious of testing it with the s-pen but at the end I strongly prefer a more stock experience.
p3dr01978 said:
Hi
I decided to sell it due to the Samsung ecosystem itself. nothing specific I was curious of testing it with the s-pen but at the end I strongly prefer a more stock experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully you'll make that guide up still, Please!
Sent from my God Mode 8
Yes I will,
But I'm a bit busy..be patience !
I wrote the guide here
https://forum.xda-developers.com/ga...ow-to-unlock-lte-bands-note-10-n9700-t3983257
I'm not responsabile for any damages
Let me know.
-P3dr0-