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I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!
That would be SICK... But I don't think it'd be possible due to the size of the camera sensor in most mobile phones.
i just know that the HTC Bass (Runnymede) will be able to do 720p recording at 60fps.
afaik, there are no known phones that can do [email protected] currently.
socalwrx said:
I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!
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Sounds like James Cameron's dream phone, to me. Cameron is pushing for the movie industry to adopt a minimum 60fp/s for movies.
is 60fps the limit? cant it go any higher?
Really isn't much benefit in going higher except for Video/Sports analysis, TBH. For just watching stuff, 60 FPS is good enough.
I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.
socalwrx said:
I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.
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agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that
AllGamer said:
agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that
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Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
tjtj4444 said:
Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
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This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
Yes, we all like to see those beautiful bullet time type videos shot with fast cameras, but there are limitations other than processing power. In this case it's optical. The faster you shoot, the better lit the scene needs to be and the better the light gathering ability of the optics. Perfectly easy to overcome when you're lighting the scene and using proper hardware. Not so good when you're using a phone to do the shooting though!
I don't see the point of 1080p/60fps until they can do 1080p/30fps properly
Also better optics before moving onto anything else
DirkGently1 said:
This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
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Sorry but I don't agree at all, and your post doesn't include one single argument for you statement so it doesn't make any change.
30 fps looks ok, but 60fps video looks more fluid. It is very obvious in fast moving videos, e g sports.
I know that movies are made for 24fps and have "motion blur" to remove the problems with low frame rate, and some people prefere this motion blur (i e movie captured with small aperture) but that is a matter of taste and doesn't change what looks more fluid or not.
HTC Vivid [email protected] http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_vivid-4302.php
That all depends on the GPU. Maybe the powervr sgx 543 can, seems the most plausible of all the GPUs available.
So those can shoot @60fps:
-LG G2
-Note 3
-HTC One (720p only)
Does anybody know more devices?
Maybe Nexus 5 after some camera hack...? I would buy if it had 1080p60
Samsung Galaxy S4 and S5 can record 60fps video as well
Can anyone with the Z5 or Z5c check how well Steadyshot works with 1080p vs. 4k? I've been seeing Youtube videos where it does not look like it is working in 4k, even though the videos claim it is enabled. All the 1080p videos seem to be excellent however. So is this a pre-production unit problem, an actual problem, or maybe auto mode vs. manual mode bug?
Edit: Maybe it's just less effective than at 1080p?
Sorry to bother you folks, but I've found the answer (I think). The closed-loop actuator (i.e. hardware stabilizer) is used in Intelligent Active Mode, which supports up to 1080p (and not 4k - please correct me if I'm wrong). Guess 4k will only be really useful when not moving around a lot.
joe_dude said:
Sorry to bother you folks, but I've found the answer (I think). The closed-loop actuator (i.e. hardware stabilizer) is used in Intelligent Active Mode, which supports up to 1080p (and not 4k - please correct me if I'm wrong). Guess 4k will only be really useful when not moving around a lot.
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On Z3+, 1080p has two stabilization options (standard, intelligent active) & 4K has only one - standard. Sounds like it's the same deal on Z5, but I could be wrong.
schecter7 said:
On Z3+, 1080p has two stabilization options (standard, intelligent active) & 4K has only one - standard. Sounds like it's the same deal on Z5, but I could be wrong.
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I've seen a few Z5 4k vids now, along with some on other phones. Looks like 4k even with OIS is pretty much unusable for anything beyond hand jitter. All the videos I've seen are shaky as heck while walking (let alone running). I guess OIS was designed for photos, and not for absorbing shocks in videos.
So maybe use 4k when standing still or sitting down, and want to capture more detail (those huge files and battery drain!). But I think 1080p with Intelligent Active mode will be better in most situations, since it can handle more aggressive panning and movement (since that's what the closed-loop actuator was designed for).
:fingers-crossed:
The Z serie (Z1-Z2-Z3-Z4-Z5,etc...) doesnt have an OIS. they have software image stabilizer.
warplane95 said:
The Z serie (Z1-Z2-Z3-Z4-Z5,etc...) doesnt have an OIS. they have software image stabilizer.
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Z5 uses a hardware-based closed-loop actuator, which is electronically controlled. So no, it is not OIS, but it's actually a more advanced hardware + software stabilizer (taken from the Sony Alpha). For video, it's far better than OIS. For pics, it's probably close, but I don't have enough info to really know. Took me quite a bit of digging to find out. It's not a "it's just software-based" solution. FYI, the actuator is used in Intelligent Active mode.
The Z3/Z3+ I'm pretty sure also uses an actuator, but it's "open-loop", which is less accurate (not sure about the other phones in the Z series). The closed-loop actuator is a real advancement - the Z5 is first phone to ever use such a system. It's too bad Sony doesn't know how to market it and explain why it's arguably most advanced smartphone available. Sigh. Meanwhile, the Samsung and Apple hype trains continue... choo choo!
@joe_dude , My understanding is that closed loop actuator based stabilization (what a jawbreaker! ) should work in both modes as it probably doesn't help much if they turn off gyroscope/actuator combo in 4K. But the DIS part will be weaker as the SW has to push the hw more in 4K. So it'd not be as effective as 1080p intelligent active stabilization.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fEyi0oTvw4
joe_dude said:
I've seen a few Z5 4k vids now, along with some on other phones. Looks like 4k even with OIS is pretty much unusable for anything beyond hand jitter. All the videos I've seen are shaky as heck while walking (let alone running). I guess OIS was designed for photos, and not for absorbing shocks in videos.
So maybe use 4k when standing still or sitting down, and want to capture more detail (those huge files and battery drain!). But I think 1080p with Intelligent Active mode will be better in most situations, since it can handle more aggressive panning and movement (since that's what the closed-loop actuator was designed for).
:fingers-crossed:
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I've shoot many 4K with Z1c(4k mod) and S6, they don't have any problem when you walking very carefully. Yes, the 4K must be lag during at indoor/low-light bcoz it will need 4 times lighting in to satisfy the sensor and today's technology with such a small sensor doesn't reach the standard(the shutter speed lower than 1/30th), it will take a couple of years to improve.
With IA mode yet you have a fluid video but the price for the quality drop is very huge but that's the only solution if you try to avoid any movement or want to give running a try.
---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------
joe_dude said:
Z5 uses a hardware-based closed-loop actuator, which is electronically controlled. So no, it is not OIS, but it's actually a more advanced hardware + software stabilizer (taken from the Sony Alpha). For video, it's far better than OIS. For pics, it's probably close, but I don't have enough info to really know. Took me quite a bit of digging to find out. It's not a "it's just software-based" solution. FYI, the actuator is used in Intelligent Active mode.
The Z3/Z3+ I'm pretty sure also uses an actuator, but it's "open-loop", which is less accurate (not sure about the other phones in the Z series). The closed-loop actuator is a real advancement - the Z5 is first phone to ever use such a system. It's too bad Sony doesn't know how to market it and explain why it's arguably most advanced smartphone available. Sigh. Meanwhile, the Samsung and Apple hype trains continue... choo choo!
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They took the focus tec from Sony Alpha and that closed-loop actuator isn't anything new, my old Sony DV recorder(Tape type) actually been used similar things ten years ago....
The OIS module on phone is too small and not enough to fix any large shaking during video recording. The ideal solution is to combine software and hardware OIS, relying sololy on software stabilization will hurt FOV and quality too much.
Hi there,
Is there a way to change setting time (video slow motion) which is 1,8 seconds, can we do it with APK editor or it takes advanced mode, eventually a developer to do it?
Has anyone ever tried to do it ?
Thank you for your answers.
It's 1/8s, not 1,8. It's next to impossible to tweak it by yourself. And it's probably coming with the update, playing it for 3 seconds in fHD rather than 6 seconds in HD
But who knows if they will update
Leave the request on Sony support website
The recording time for super slow motion is limited by the hardware's capabilities to the 1/8s.
Yup, it's limited by the RAM buffer in the camera. As far as I can tell, we could extend the duration by lowering the resolution down from 720p, but that would look awful, even 720p doesn't produce great results unless there's tons of light. Just as the new XZ2 lineup will have 1080p slowmo but with even shorter duration, because it has the same RAM buffer amount (with the option to go with 720p, though). What I'd rather like is to have the ability to lower the framerate down from 960FPS, that way we could also make longer slowmo videos, for example if we could do ~400FPS, that's still more than enough for a cool shot and would be able to extend the duration. 960FPS is really cool, but not necessary for capturing some cool stuff. It always bugged me that they fixed the slowmo framerate to 960FPS, I'm sure it's possible to make it adjustable via software. What framerate do iPhones shoot slowmo at? 250-ish? And you can make them as long as you like, right?
Hello, may it possible to make 960 fps at 1080p ? It will be great!
Not on XZ lineup, at least for now, we might get that feature after the XZ2 release.
But anyways, why would that be great?
Switching to 1080p super slowmo makes the slowmo capture time even shorter, it is already nearly impossible at 720p to capture the right moment you want in slowmo, 1080p makes it evene shorter and harder. I'd rather have lower framerate and longer duration of the superslowmo than higher resolution. I just contacted sony support about this possible feature, still waiting for the answer. It's stupid to have a hardware capable of recording at 960FPS and not being able to lower that framerate in order to extend the duration of the shot. It's a software limitation and an oversight, nothing more, the hardware is there. It's like Sony saying, "Hey, here's one of the coolest features we ever implemented in a phone. But good luck actually using it because it's damn near impossible to do so. But it's there. Please buy our phones. Cheers." The RAM buffer and the sensor in the XZ2 will allegedly be the same as on XZ1 and Premium. If they can get 1080p super slowmo on it, it's a software modification. And if they can do that, they can also give us the option to switch the framerate. But they don't because higher specs sell better. It's all good on paper, but sucks in practical use.
ive seen camera specs both are 19 MP (f/2.0, 25mm, 1/2.3") so how come XZ2 has better quality?
ive seen a video comparison in low light, its not that the XZP is a lot worse or bad at all, but xz2 does seem to have a brighter video, more realistic with the light it captures through, plus when the guy zoomed in to the max the xz2 could maintain a lil more details, which is weird because both phones have the same camera...
Is sony planning on releasing a similar camera algorithms in the next update?
if not, is it possible to make our XZP camera look just as good as the XZ2? Since they both have the same camera.
madshark2009 said:
ive seen camera specs both are 19 MP (f/2.0, 25mm, 1/2.3") so how come XZ2 has better quality?
ive seen a video comparison in low light, its not that the XZP is a lot worse or bad at all, but xz2 does seem to have a brighter video, more realistic with the light it captures through, plus when the guy zoomed in to the max the xz2 could maintain a lil more details, which is weird because both phones have the same camera...
Is sony planning on releasing a similar camera algorithms in the next update?
if not, is it possible to make our XZP camera look just as good as the XZ2? Since they both have the same camera.
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The camera hardware is identical, the software isn't. Sony tuned the processing and algorythms a lot, the image quality difference in general is noticable, and in low light it's massive. Both still and video.
You can have the XZ2 camera app on the XZP, but you have to root it.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/xz-premium/themes/camera-app-xz2-2-1-0-31-t3770138
I doubt Sony will update the XZ lineup with the new camera software, at least not soon, because they need to sell the XZ2 lineup, and the camera is a great selling point, if not the only one, compared to now a lot cheaper and still brilliant XZ1/XZP. Maybe we see some improvements in 8.1 or Android P, but I highly doubt it.
I was always amazed how rarily a company such as Sony updates the actual camera app on their phones, you'd think it would be a major focus feature.
I understand that it's not only the actual .apk that's different, probably some drivers as well and what not, but if the main hardware (and most of the surrounding hardware) is the same or similar, it shouldn't be a difficult thing to upgrade older devices.
I've asked Sony about this,still no answer. In the same mail I also asked them how come there is no option to lower the framerate of the slowmo video down from the 960FPS so that you could take longer slowmo videos. 960FPS is really cool, but almost unusable, let's face it, unless you plan the shot for half a day and everything is just perfect and still you won't get it the first time arround.
Not only has the same camera, but I'm pretty sure that the idiots from qualcomm just renamed the CPU flag as snapdragon 845 and enabled 4k60fps in drivers, which Sd835 is very capabile of. Also has 400 MHz more speed, bleah!
So, Qualcomm said that Snapdragon 845 to 865 is capable to record HDR/HDR10/HDR10+/DOLBY VISION videos, our phone have the last and more powerful one.
The question is, we have this feature or not? I can't seem to find it anywhere on the system or camera app, the only mention to hdr is in the specsheet from oficial site.
The last samsung phones from s9 up have this, so processing power is not the factor.
If it can't do this is a hardware limitation or xiaomi reserved it for the ultra high priced flagships?
Maybe someone can figure it out.
This is the official video from Qualcomm, they said is recorded with S10s and N10s.
Researched a little more and find that SD865 can do other dozen of things that we dont have, like 4K 120fps record, 720p 960fps without limit and more... So, software limitation? Hardware? Poco forced by xiaomi limitation?
I am looking for the same. The dynamic range is too low in the stock camera, I want more than one frame to be taken and combined in the video to obtain a better dynamic range. The Snapdragon 865 is capable of doing that and I can't find a way to do it. I also remember seeing it in a Galaxy S9 +, it seems that Xiaomi limits us functions to give them to superior phones (Mi 10 Ultra i think?). I have not tried the ANX camera yet.
EDIT: Mi 10 ultra has "Dual ISO Fusion Super Dynamic technology", basically HDR recording.
There are some mods to enable hdr10 in miui like this but these mods are very old. I don't want or need the hdr10+, I'm just looking for Dual ISO recording, just like the mi 10 ultra.
TinoSantos said:
I am looking for the same. The dynamic range is too low in the stock camera, I want more than one frame to be taken and combined in the video to obtain a better dynamic range. The Snapdragon 865 is capable of doing that and I can't find a way to do it. I also remember seeing it in a Galaxy S9 +, it seems that Xiaomi limits us functions to give them to superior phones (Mi 10 Ultra i think?). I have not tried the ANX camera yet.
EDIT: Mi 10 ultra has "Dual ISO Fusion Super Dynamic technology", basically HDR recording.
There are some mods to enable hdr10 in miui like this but these mods are very old. I don't want or need the hdr10+, I'm just looking for Dual ISO recording, just like the mi 10 ultra.
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Some users said that IS the camera module/sensor that don't support so high Bandwidth, something with dram. They say that the camera module almost fryes when recording 8k vídeo...
But i don't think that It can handle 8k30 but not 1080pHDR or 720p960fps more than 1-2 seconds....
leozanelato said:
Some users said that IS the camera module/sensor that don't support so high Bandwidth, something with dram. They say that the camera module almost fryes when recording 8k vídeo...
But i don't think that It can handle 8k30 but not 1080pHDR or 720p960fps more than 1-2 seconds....
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So the IMX586 sensor can and the version that supposedly followed it, the IMX686 can't? They could also have implemented it by software, making it shoot at 1080p 120 and interleave frames with different iso to form an hdr image at 1080p 30.
I think that Xiaomi's problem is that they have so many devices that they don't have time to develop each one well. (G translate)
TinoSantos said:
So the IMX586 sensor can and the version that supposedly followed it, the IMX686 can't? They could also have implemented it by software, making it shoot at 1080p 120 and interleave frames with different iso to form an hdr image at 1080p 30.
I think that Xiaomi's problem is that they have so many devices that they don't have time to develop each one well. (G translate)
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The imx586 can do hdr video? Which phone?
Maybe is software limitation by xiaomi to try sell their high end phones (mi10/pro/ultra)
Tino are you BR as well?
pocof2 can record hdr10 also with eis enabled. from 1080p-8k. but not with stock camera.
to get it working you must use the hvec codec("omx.qcom.video.encoder.hvec")
profile level: "hvec profile main10 hdr10 hvechightierlevel6"
then you can set the key org.quic.camera2.streamconfigs.HDRVideoMode to 1 for hlg or 2 for pq.
after that the poco records 10 bit.