Database Info

Ok, I lied :-)

Ok guys, it's been brought to my attention that my post was
1. Cantankerous.
2. Seemingly disrespectful of devs great work on here.
3. Taken too seriously for being an internet forum.
I would like to say sorry, and explain what I mean I tihnk it would be awesome to pull together the necessary funding for our very talented developers to create an XDA exclusive, completely original ROM. I'm not sure if it is possible, but something that is just for the Thunderbolt alone and isn't sense, isn't AOSP, isn't MIUI, and DEFINITELY not like Motorboat... I mean Motorblur. I think we really are on to something with the work that the Dev's are doing with taking different roms and porting them/using other roms as bases and then building from them; lets see what we can do to completely change the way that this stuff is done(if possible) by polling ideas(not unreasonable wishlists) and putting it all together. Possibly coordinating between Team BAMF, Chingy, and some other the other recognized DEV's.
What does everyone else think?

htcdesirezgeorge said:
I'm not sure if it is possible, but something that is just for the Thunderbolt alone and isn't sense, isn't AOSP, isn't MIUI, and DEFINITELY not like Motorboat...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it isn't sense/blur/touchwiz, it is AOSP. Miui is just modified AOSP (with no sources given back), just like all the other roms not sense/blur/touchwiz are also based on AOSP. You do know what AOSP means right? Android Open Source Project as in the android operation system that is the basis to all android phones just modded by the OEMs. What you're asking is similar to saying:
"Hey, I'm bored with linux, unix, osx and windows, can we make a new operating system totally not based on any of those for our computers?"
Perhaps rephrase your question one more time in a way that makes more sense? Third time is a winner

yareally said:
If it isn't sense/blur/touchwiz, it is AOSP. Miui is just modified AOSP (with no sources given back), just like all the other roms not sense/blur/touchwiz are also based on AOSP. You do know what AOSP means right? Android Open Source Project as in the android operation system that is the basis to all android phones just modded by the OEMs. What you're asking is similar to saying:
"Hey, I'm bored with linux, unix, osx and windows, can we make a new operating system totally not based on any of those for our computers?"
Perhaps rephrase your question one more time in a way that makes more sense? Third time is a winner
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya got a point, I actually didn't know that! BUT, regardless of how its phrased, what do ya think it would require to do somethig like I mentioned? I, personally would love to see something excitingly new put out here. Like with the miui project, any chance of people putting their heads together to figure it out?

You've got OS's and you have UI's. Obviously it is entirely possible to custom build a UI, but its FAR more difficult than porting one over or mixing and mashing parts of Sense together. UberBAMF is definitely something new and out of the box. That's more radical than anything I ever expected... Or have ever seen elsewhere. UIs do a lot to sell a device, so its worth it for HTC or Samsung to invest in building one. Not so much for a team of volunteer devs.

htcdesirezgeorge said:
Ya got a point, I actually didn't know that! BUT, regardless of how its phrased, what do ya think it would require to do somethig like I mentioned? I, personally would love to see something excitingly new put out here. Like with the miui project, any chance of people putting their heads together to figure it out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chances are unlikely to get a new user interface geared to only one phone built from the ground up from the android source by a team for a few reasons:
1) Lack of like-minded (knowledgeable) developers for one device that are currently free. Developers are very opinionated (just from my own experience even if they don't want to admit it). What should/shouldn't go into it would be a mess to deal with and debate alone, especially since the opinions of developers are generally not the same as those that don't develop. The ones already developing most likely don't want to give up their current projects as well. Basically, the developers that want to develop already have their projects and most treat them like it's their "baby" and most likely not willing to give them up or put them on hold. That moves into issue #2
2) Time. It would take considerable amount of time and organization to do that. Probably to get something stable that's original would take longer than most people would keep their Thunderbolt. Guys that work on their phones do this part time for fun as well and that combined with other side projects would press for time.
3) True developers & designers. There's a big difference between hacking some already made stuff to work with things and actually writing object oriented software from scratch. Obviously some guys putting stuff out for the thunderbolt are true developers that code professionally and others are just hacking around making things work done by others. Both have their uses, but you need real development for something like this and I don't think there's enough of those willing.

Forgot to add that the only way change happens is to build interest, so don't let my pessimistic observations detour anyone from posting their thoughts and ideas in this thread

DEV: WebOS on iPhone :)

I am starting a new project to port webOS over to the iPhone 3G 3GS and 4.
I have a website where i will be posting updates with project info. Also I am looking for someone with Linux experience as i have only a Windows 7 PC.
I need about 3 more people to help me with this.
Any takers?
Please PM if you think you can help thank you.

vdcmini said:
I am starting a new project to port webOS over to the iPhone 3G 3GS and 4.
I have a website where i will be posting updates with project info. Also I am looking for someone with Linux experience as i have only a Windows 7 PC.
I need about 3 more people to help me with this.
Any takers?
Please PM if you think you can help thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any three people? Or do you have specific skill-sets that are required? What skill-sets do you bring to the project?
-- Rod

rwhitby said:
Any three people? Or do you have specific skill-sets that are required? What skill-sets do you bring to the project?
-- Rod
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What i bring is the website to post fast download links and a blog, also, the phone. lol
I need someone who can extract the firmware though.

vdcmini said:
What i bring is the website to post fast download links and a blog, also, the phone. lol
I need someone who can extract the firmware though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you have a website, a blog, a webOS phone and an iPhone. That's a pretty unique skillset. I wonder why no-one with that set of things tried to port webOS to the iPhone before? Once you've got that skillset the rest must be pretty straight-forward, no?
BTW, you can get links to download the webOS firmware from HP's official servers here: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions
Note that redistributing it (or any modifications of it) is illegal, so you may want to figure out that small issue first in your project plan ...
Good luck with your endeavour.
-- Rod

Are you being sarcastic, Rod? I suppose he deserves it by the know-how he puts forward. So if I get it right, he just has a website and wants others to develop and get the reward. Pretty nice business plan!

He also has a dream...the same one I have but I have an EVO 3d... Which I think should be easier...
Rod I was thinking can't it be done part way like webpage 2.1 on pre- using meta scripts?
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium

Rod would you like a pre-? As a donation?
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium

ceyo14 said:
Rod would you like a pre-? As a donation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks very much for your offer.
Unfortunately, none of our developers use a Pre- these days for anything other than webOS 1.4.5 legacy testing.
I'm personally using a 1.4GHz 16GB HP Pre 3.
-- Rod

I dont get the point of it. Iphones are expensive and run unique hardware only made by apple. With that expense comes the seamless apple experience ,decent reliability and the proprietary is operating system. If your going to throw all that away,why even pay for the iphone to begin with. Their hardware is really no better than the stuff from htc. Htc hardware on the other hand is well understood and in fact,is very similar to the hardware in the touchpad.
Personally,I dont see the point of webOS on anything now. It honestly has few game changing features. What it does have is a unique UI that many people like. Rather than port webOS to other platforms,why not make a UI for android that takes the best things from webOS and throws out the bad ones,and fixes what needs to be fixed. Then you have something
really great,with a great UI,the ability to run android aps,but without many of the drawbacks of android.
As for your project,I doubt you will get any takers. What I suggest is you simply learn to do the work yourself. Start by downloading a Linux distro and installed it on an old pc.

The Reason Android is Laggy

Really interesting read and does make sense...
https://plus.google.com/u/0/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS

Thanks for posting that link, very in-depth article

Excellent find! A very enlightening read if you have the time!

Felt like Google should have taken ICS as an opportunity to redo the framework as a reset button for all their devices. Makes me wonder when they will actually fix the problem since ICS going forward should be the main platform for both phones and tablets running Android. Maybe another overhaul when 5.0 hits?

kusabikuri said:
Felt like Google should have taken ICS as an opportunity to redo the framework as a reset button for all their devices. Makes me wonder when they will actually fix the problem since ICS going forward should be the main platform for both phones and tablets running Android. Maybe another overhaul when 5.0 hits?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure they would love to do this but they have to keep app compatibility in mind...

I wonder if that actually helps android as faster processors are developed, at least with the thread priority part of it. As phones start to become more like PCs, could you imagine all of your background processes pause because you moved your mouse or touched the screen?
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App

As the post and the comments says, Google is trying to work on this with every release...there is a rumor of major overhaul with Android 5.0....if not then some other changes based on the multi core processors and work around.....if Samsung can do it in GS2...i am sure Google can do too for all phones..

nimper said:
I'm sure they would love to do this but they have to keep app compatibility in mind...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think they necessarily have to have app compatibility. If they made ICS with new framework they could have just released it to devs first during development and given them ample lead time to parallel develop before launching. I feel like this would be a better scenario than just launching it or not even fixing it.

kusabikuri said:
I don't think they necessarily have to have app compatibility. If they made ICS with new framework they could have just released it to devs first during development and given them ample lead time to parallel develop before launching. I feel like this would be a better scenario than just launching it or not even fixing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that backwards compatibility or legacy support is paramount. I don't know how hard it will be to integrate, but I feel that it is needed.

Love the OS, but I agree with others that the lag is disgusting as is the need to buy a new phone to hopefully get it fixed...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

nice link, thanks

Cool read.

http://www.informedskeptic.com/2011/12/android-versus-ios-the-power-of-culture-and-tools/
to add to the discussion...

viny2cool said:
http://www.informedskeptic.com/2011/12/android-versus-ios-the-power-of-culture-and-tools/
to add to the discussion...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good article. I agree that in creating such an open platform Google did kind of cripple itself in terms of maintaining a smooth experience across all devices. However I don't think I'd trade the openness of Android and such a great development community for the single user experience that Apple dictates over a little lag.

kusabikuri said:
Good article. I agree that in creating such an open platform Google did kind of cripple itself in terms of maintaining a smooth experience across all devices. However I don't think I'd trade the openness of Android and such a great development community for the single user experience that Apple dictates over a little lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
on top of that, if you read all the comments on the G+ past in OP...Samsung did a very good job in overcoming the lag in SG2...from the comment what I got was that Tegra's are not really good processors for Android...and Samsung own processors works best.....

As phones gets closer like a computer android has advantage over iOS , because it is closer to what phones will be in future.... if this makes sence
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium

I love the OS too

[DEV]Project Magenta, an iOS-like OS. Anyone interested? + Need devs!

http://crna.cc/magenta.html
Magenta is an implementation of Darwin/BSD on top of the Linux kernel. It is made
up of a number of kernel and userland components that work together. It is fully binary
compatible with iPhone OS 5.0 (as in, it uses the same binary format).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am now chatting with the dev on IRC. I want to know if anyone is interested in this, so i know if i will continue the porting or not.
First we need to build the kernel, so we need a kernel dev. There's a DIFF that needs to be applied.
The files are here: http://crna.cc/magenta_source.html
What do you think? Also remember THIS IS A DEV TOPIC, so no asking for ETA & stuff. Nagging will result in locking the topic and discontinuing this.
EDIT: Remember, this has nothing to do with Apple. Everything is Open-Source, so we have the stability of C instead of Java, but also the openness of Android!
Edit 2: Looks like there aren't many devs interested about this, and also there would be no advantages. You can't run Android Apps, nor iOS apps...

What good points will this release have besides compability with iOS apps ?

Not just the "look like android", it can still have a android look but iOS compability, that sure opens a wide horizon. Cross platform apps. It's awesome i think.

MidnightDevil said:
Not just the "look like android", it can still have a android look but iOS compability, that sure opens a wide horizon. Cross platform apps. It's awesome i think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It won't run iOS apps.. below was mentioned on project website
" to make it myself). * Will it run iPhone OS apps? * No, because I'm not aiming to have compatible high level frameworks. Just think about how much work is required to have a 100% compatible implementation of UIKit or Celestial. HOWEVER, the CoreOS part should be 100% (or 99%) compatible. Just not the higher level OS. If you're just interested in this because it will "run iOS apps" please go away."
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium

I can contribute, maybe even run the thing (no promises, in my spare time, won't support it just drop the thing for you, I'm busy next few days though)
Still working on kernel 3.0
Sent from my Desire HD

This has nothing to do with iOS' lockdown. It is as open and as free as Android.

In Layman terms; does this mean magenta just runs Android on C and not Java meaning more efficient execution of tasks?

So is it just a ios themed rom, or does it actually have some of the real advances from the ios?
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium

I'd be willing to dev, but I'm afraid I don't have too much experience.
I know my way around C++ and Python, and I can do Hello World in C. I can read most code though.

It's funny to see people excited with this when they don't know what benefits this development will actually bring :b
I'm not against this at all, please don't take this the wrong way, but to invest in such kind of development you need to have benefits, so, what are they ?

like to contribute
I would like to contribute on development.I know Objective C, worked on few Iphone Apps.

andreigherghe said:
http://crna.cc/magenta.html
I am now chatting with the dev on IRC. I want to know if anyone is interested in this, so i know if i will continue the porting or not.
First we need to build the kernel, so we need a kernel dev. There's a DIFF that needs to be applied.
The files are here: http://crna.cc/magenta_source.html
What do you think? Also remember THIS IS A DEV TOPIC, so no asking for ETA & stuff. Nagging will result in locking the topic and discontinuing this.
EDIT: Remember, this has nothing to do with Apple. Everything is Open-Source, so we have the stability of C instead of Java, but also the openness of Android!
Edit 2: Looks like there aren't many devs interested about this, and also there would be no advantages. You can't run Android Apps, nor iOS apps...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the most (and only - for me- ) interesting side of this project is having the stability of C instead of Java. Android will be stunning and awesome if it get over java. but iOS like !! nah.
and good luck with that cuz there is people who want it and seems excited about it :highfive:

I'm willing to help, will be getting my uart cable soon.
Sent from my GT-I9100 running CM10

icecreame said:
the most (and only - for me- ) interesting side of this project is having the stability of C instead of Java. Android will be stunning and awesome if it get over java.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can easily develop for Android using C (Google NDK). What preventing YOU from doing it? But generally that is terrible idea unless someone have got tons of already written code that is too costly/time consuming to port/rewrite. And it is awful idea because it defy purpose of Java compatibility. We got phones out there that are running Android on top of x86/MIPS processors. And thous phones have no problem running absolute majority of Android applications. Plus few startups are developing new processor architectures, because Android would let them access huge software library transparently. And that is fundamental idea behind Android, let OS run on any processor, current or future one, with application developers having no need to port or even recompile their code for new architectures/processor models.

My friend is very intrested in this he is a programmer in c and c++ and c#

Thread closed per OP request, as development has stopped for good on this project.

[Q] Any good books on Android OS development?

I was just wondering if there were any good books about developing the Android OS. I am talking about taking source Android and developing it into something phone specific. Like HTC sense or Samsung TouchWiz. (I know they are both completely different processes). So if anyone could point me in the direction of a book specifically about developing android from the ground up, that would be great. Thanks

Developing Android or developing apps for Android? Can't do the first as it's done by Google..
For apps, read some reviews on Deitel's Android for programmers or Busycoder's guide to Android development... The latter will teach you via examples.

Developing.
Ehtishams said:
Developing Android or developing apps for Android? Can't do the first as it's done by Google..
For apps, read some reviews on Deitel's Android for programmers or Busycoder's guide to Android development... The latter will teach you via examples.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am talking about developing android ROMs and possibly something like Sense or TouchWiz from scratch. Not a port of either, but something like that. I have just realized that all either of them do is more or less a system of APKs strung together to form a sort of OS within an OS. So I guess I will take a look at app development. Anything along the lines of launcher development and replacement system apps would be great.

TekGadgt said:
I am talking about developing android ROMs and possibly something like Sense or TouchWiz from scratch. Not a port of either, but something like that. I have just realized that all either of them do is more or less a system of APKs strung together to form a sort of OS within an OS. So I guess I will take a look at app development. Anything along the lines of launcher development and replacement system apps would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for starting this thread TekGadgt
I also wanted to learn how to develop ROMs (something like Cyanogenmod). Anyone please guide me how to proceed.

No luck
bharathexe said:
Thanks for starting this thread TekGadgt
I also wanted to learn how to develop ROMs (something like Cyanogenmod). Anyone please guide me how to proceed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know right? Some people like reading physical books, rather than a tutorial thread, to learn development. I still have no hits for a book on developing (or cooking) ROMs. I will keep a look out. Rather than wait, I have simply purchased a book on app development and am working on a launcher app. We will see how it goes.