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[Article] cellphones and photography

Hi all!
All ok?!
I create this small text for a Brazilian Android Forum, called BrasilDroid, so I would put here in XDA too.
It is about the quality of our cellphones cameras and the quality of them.
A lot of definitions :
What is Photography ?
Literaly is write with light. The term is derived from Greek. photos(light) and graphos (drawing). So, the basic premise for take a picture is... Light!
What we need to take a photo?
For take a picture we need a camera with lens and film, that in digital photography is the camera sensor.
Pixel and Resolution
If we make a enlarge expansion in a photo we see various square points that make the image, this points are called Pixel. This is the minor measure that we have in our photos.
The photo resolution are directy connected to the Pixel. In a photo that have dimensions of 1920x1080 your resolution is 2,736,800 px or 2.1mpx.
Roughly, resolution is the photo area.
Quality vs Pixel
Many peoples confuse the camera quality with the amount of megapixel available.
But, quality not linked with quantity.
The Camera quality is linked direct to height of sensor and how the sensor handles the lack of light.
When we pont our camera for the scene and shoot a "curten" open and leave the sensor exposed to light. In this moment the sensor catch the light. Immediately after the "curten" close and the image is recorded.
While the obturator(the name of "curten") is open the sensor is capturing the light, so, smaller the area for capture minus details can be captured and more digital interference need to be used to create the image.
Let us consider two sensors:
Sensor 1 - 7x5mm.
Sensor 2 - 20x14mm.
These sensors be in two diferents cameras with 5mpx of resolution.
When we take a photo in 1920x1080 (Full HD) the sensor try capture the light of all scene usin 2.1 milions of points.
In First Sensor the pixel be very close, the area is smaller, making the size of these pixel be small, soon, the amount of detail that each of these pixels will be store are small.
In Second Sensor the pixels be more separated, the area is bigger, the pixels can capture mor information of the light.
The final image will be the same resolution in each sensors, but, the sensor two store more information. Considering the size of this sensors, Sensor two will store three times more information.
In other words, a small sensor need perform a big effort for store all information, are many pixels in a small area. This makes the camera need interfere in capture, generating small points between the pixels. In these moment we have other problem ... Grain...
So, for what serve the pixel ?
Enlarge.
The more megapixel used in a photo greater be your dimension, so, more we can enlarge the picture keeping the proportion without loose information.
Why the photos look better on cellphone than on the computer?
That we see in screen of cell is basically a photo in a lower resolution than the real resolution, these lower resolution hide photos imperfections and some LCDs can make a bigger shine or contrast in the photos, like the AMOLED.
How to take better photos with cell ?
1 - Don't use the max megapixel
If you are shoot with cell, certainly, be a big image don't is your objective, so, you can take photos in small resolution. In Cell with 5.0mpx take a picture with 3.2mpx only bring gain...
2 - ISO
If the camera have manual ISO, try to use the lower ISO number, the higher ISO more digital inteference, and more grain...
But, the low ISO makes the scene need more light.
3 - Prefer shooting statics objects or don't shake
Most of cellphones don't allows the manual configuration of Obturator Speed. The camera software try to choice the better speed for the scene.
The phone try balance the speed with ISO and aperture, many times the speed is going down. And slow speed is synonymous of blur photo.
How to get around this? If possible, increase the ISO or increase the exposure compensation. And let the phone as still as possible.
4 - Using flash
Flash, very polemic, but, in cell cameras can be a great ally.
When use the flash your light make that the scene freeze, reducing very much the slow speed problem.
Obvious, xeon flash is better than Led.
5 - Modify the pr proportion
Case the camera be proportion adjust try choice the best of each photo.
Proportion 4:3 = 1.333
Proportion 3:2 = 1.5
Proportion 16:9 = 1.77
To calculate the proportion just divide the bigger side by smaller.
Para calcular a proporção é só dividir o lado maior pelo lado menor.
A Photo with 2048x1536 px be : 2048 / 1536 ~= 1.333
So, the resolution 2048x1536 have proportion 4:3.
To improve the photos working with the proportion the best way is using photo's editors.
Size of Sensors:
Digital Cameras :
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(http://www.iif.com.br/site/2010/10/mitos-verdade-digital/)
Iphone and S3
(https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2708421/+200)
They noted that the lower sensor of a digital camera 1/2.5 (0.4) is ~ 25% higher than the sensor of Galaxy S3 1/3.2 (0.31)?
Guys, it is clear that we can take great pictures with our cell phones, however, the limitation of the hardware and the sensor will always do that to that quality is not expected.
After all that, you imagine how absurd it is to have a mobile phone with 41mpx resolution?
A decent camera, that resolution costs over $ 20,000 and has a huge sensor, called medium format!
I propose a challenge. I take two pictures with my Ace 2. One with 5.0mpx and other with 3.2mpx. Both are in the ratio 4:3 with 100% Crop.
which of the photos was made ​​with 5.0mpx and what was done with 3.2mpx?
Photo one :
Photo two:
That is, questions, suggestions ... and let the discussion!
:laugh::good:

Camera usage

Well, as we all know by now, the camera on the Xperia XZ is quite moody. In my experience, its been mediocre at best. The low light photography is super disappointing. Then again, I'm quite an amateur at professional grade photography. The Galaxy S6 Edge never really required me to be.
I have, however, noticed some of you guys are getting tremendous shots on the XZ. What I want to know from you brilliant people is how do I operate this camera to its maximum potential? Superior Auto mode/Manual Mode? What would the optimum resolution be? And if there are any standard manual settings for best results? Touch to focus or focus via half pressing the shutter button(It said somewhere that the laser autofocus might not work when we touch to focus)? Using the system app or using an alternative like the Google Camera?
Help a fellow homie out, please, thanks guys!

magicalsalad said:
Well, as we all know by now, the camera on the Xperia XZ is quite moody. In my experience, its been mediocre at best. The low light photography is super disappointing. Then again, I'm quite an amateur at professional grade photography. The Galaxy S6 Edge never really required me to be.
I have, however, noticed some of you guys are getting tremendous shots on the XZ. What I want to know from you brilliant people is how do I operate this camera to its maximum potential? Superior Auto mode/Manual Mode? What would the optimum resolution be? And if there are any standard manual settings for best results? Touch to focus or focus via half pressing the shutter button(It said somewhere that the laser autofocus might not work when we touch to focus)? Using the system app or using an alternative like the Google Camera?
Help a fellow homie out, please, thanks guys!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi there. I'm not pro either but here are my findings I hope you can understand the logic of my how I optimise:
Resolution should always be set to 8mp (4:3) for best quality as the XZ super samples the photo.
Auto white balance is pretty good but can occassionally be a bit cold. If the lighting is good, you can actually go into Auto mode and tune the colour temperature more accurately than in manual mode (pretty ridiculous) which only gives stuff like, tungsten/halogen/cloudy/sunny. If it's low light, superior auto is going to put the ISO very high and ruin the photos with noise if you're not careful.
For low light photos, what you're aiming for is the longest possible shutter time and lowest EV exposure. Stupidly again, setting manual shutter time forces the ISO into auto mode which means you have to get used to what settings in what lighting conditions will give you a low automatic exposure.
So in low light you would set perhaps 0.5s/ or 0.25s shutter time, try to keep a negative EV. This only works if your photo is stationary and you have a mount or steady hand. 0.5s without something to rest on is going to be pretty much impossible, 0.25 with something to rest on is easy, 1/8th and 1/16th second you can manage hand held but if your subject is moving, they are likely to blur too. If you're trying to take a photo at low light of moving objects you're mostly out of luck, the XZ simply isn't great at low light. Perhaps use auto shutter time and fix ISO to either 400 or 800 and see if that works for you.
For outdoor conditions with bright backgrounds you may have to resort to HDR mode, but it gets kinda complicated deciding what looks better. I noticed some bright ourdoor shots are too vibrant and HDR looks really unnatural. Also there can be a turquoise shift in the sky, same as in x performance test on Dxomark.

8mp is the best?! Can you explain a bit?

Heinous said:
8mp is the best?! Can you explain a bit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's better as I believe it uses the information from the full 24mp to super sample an improved 8mp picture. Essentially tries to cram in the information from larger resolution into a smaller area.
If you zoom in 1:1 with the 23mp image, you see a lot of noise artifacts, with the 8mp obviously is the same as zooming into the 23mp less so you don't see it as much. 23 mp can certainly contain more detail than 8 mp, however the sharpening artifacts can be more pronounced in a 23mp crop compared with 8mp crop of the same area. 8mp is a bit softer and there is less that appears "wrong". I will try and make some examples later perhaps. (or prove myself wrong...who knows )

Ok took a few photos to try and illustrate why 8mp is better.
I took two photos, one at 8mp and the other at 23mp, both at exactly the same settings, 40 iso.
I then scaled the 23mp to 8mp using image resizing in photoshop then took 100% crops to show part of the picture.
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Notice in particular around the black seal on the window frame the extra noise on the 23mp crop. I believe the difference is the point at which the xz applies sharpening. On a 23mp photo, it applies the sharpening right after taking the raw photo.
However, in the case of the 8mp photo, it super samples a 23mp pixel raw (either resize or combines pixel data to produce the 8mp, THEN applies sharpening. So in the 8mp, the image information is taken from 23mp and compressed into 8mp, whereas on 23mp it sharpens first, and after you resize it or look at it on a monitor there sharpening artifacts are much more noticeable.
Here is another example at 400iso , look at the threads and pins and the extra noise and distortion on the 23mp photo.
23mp photos DO contain more detail, BUT only if viewed 100% at which point it looks like crap anyway due to sharpening of a noisy photo.
23mp downsized to 8mp has LESS detail compared to taking the photo in 8mp because of the difference where the sharpening is applied.
So the conclusion: Take photos at 8mp (or even 2mp haha because the same theory applies there) Sharpening should happen last in post processing not before denoise/resize.

I've trying out the camera at 8mp, but I haven't had a chance to really look at the results on a large display to see the difference.
Any other recommendations for getting the best photos out of this camera?

I guess one benefit of using the camera at 8mp is that you should be able take advantage unlimited full-size backups on Google Photos. If you use the 23mp setting, they will either count against your storage limit or be reduced to 16mp...

So, the Pixel 2s camera is amazing! How does Lightroom camera app keep up?

Hi
The camera on Pixel 2 and Pixel 2 XL is the best imo, and been working great for me.
- Ive been using Lightroom to edit my photos taken by the stock camera app. Never really used the camera app from Lightroom, but I tried it yesterday and it is absolutly amazing when shooting in DNG (RAW) and Professionel mode, where you are able to use manuel control.
Anyone else who has experience with the proffesionel mode in Lightroom with success?
The main question is; in Lightroom you are able to choose HDR photos , and sincs the stock camera app on Pixel 2 use HDR+ as default, I am wondering if anyone has some experience with whether there is a difference between these?
And does any know how it works with Camera HAL HDR+ turned on and using HDR in Lightroom?
Johnny

I got my pixel 2 after the new years holiday. I did some testings with both default camera's normal/ hdr+ / hdr+ enhanced and Adobe Lightroom app raw format, in different lighting conditions. So far I would say without post production and editing, Pixel's default camera app gives everything you need. However there's some raw/dng shots I took with Adobe Lightroom look nicer than google's camera app after editing work done in Camera Raw. I can post some samples if you are interested.

I've been using Lightroom extensively on my iPhone X and the quality of the images (even in JPG) is leaps and bounds ahead of the stock app.
For my recently bought Pixel 2, the experience has been very bad so far. It's five times slower, the quality seems to lack a little and several options are not present or implemented in a worse way than on iOS.
I did not find a way to use the new HDR API (you can activate it in the developer options) with Lightroom yet. The build-in HDR function looks like crap imho.
---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------
ocean_drive said:
I can post some samples if you are interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am interested in that

Yes please.
Thanks.. Im my self is kinda splitted. Sometimes the app seems to work better in some areas, but not all..

ocean_drive said:
I can post some samples if you are interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Please!

I can post some samples if you are interested.
Please do

]Hey guys,
I have been quite busy lately, so this is a brief comparison.
My Pixel 2 took a couple of shots with default camera app in regular, hdr+ and hdr+enhanced modes. If you look at the metadata screenshots, you will find it in the application field, it says:
"walleye-user 8.1.0 OPM1.171019.013 4474084 release-keys" - regular mode
"HDR+ 1.0.177471000z" - HDR+
"HDR+ 1.0.177471000n" - HDR+enhanced
Apprently HDR+enhanced mode merges multiple exposures and create a final result contains the best dynamic range and exposure with good amount of high lights and shadows.
see the back lit tree for reference.
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For Adobe lightroom, I took both regular dng (raw) and hdr dng(multiple exposures raw data merged, similar to "merge hdr" feature in the new desktop Camera Raw plugin) In this case the lighting is quite dramatic and tricky, for the same example you will see that the data captured in regular dng isn't big enough to restore the over exposed sky, but the hdr dng which doubles in file size is able to. ( I will upload full res images later to google photos if you want to compare lightroom hdr raw vs. google camera hdr+enhanced)
but most cases lighroom's regular raw dng is able to give you the same results as google's hdr+ enhanced. see this ocean view. The overexposed sky and under exposed trees are fully restored
when i compared photos from lightroom and default camera app, there's not much difference between processed dng files and HDR+enhanced mode. See screenshots of the ocean - dngs are better in a way that they bring up more details in some shadow areas
more examples will be posted soon. I'm having a problem - I forgot which dng files are untouched straight out of pixel 2, without manual adjustment applied.

Great threat/post, thanks so much! LR on Pixel 2 hdr dng is such a hog, it's unbelievably slow, but I think its the only way to shoot hdr+ dng on the Pixel 2, am I right? I've tried camera nx but while it makes dng files and the previews looks hdr I can't ever get them looking hdr-y, they just look like standard one-shot raw files and no app on windows seems to display tue hdr data, even LR classic cc. Would love some more info / posting on this, and any sample files named with what they are, as I can't tell from a couple of your screenshots.
Thanks so much for this! Have you tried camera nx (7.2 ver works on pixel 2 from december 17, anything more recent crashes on ppening. Also, Manual cam dngs?

Photo quality

Say "cheese", then rate this thread to express how photos taken with the Xiaomi Mi Note 10 Lite come out. A higher rating indicates that photos offer rich color (without over-saturating), sharp detail (with all subjects in-focus), and appropriate exposure (with even lighting).
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!

Sometimes the Autofocus doesn´t work. The Picture isn´t sharp at all. It´s a bug? Did anyone encounter the same problem?

Tikil said:
Sometimes the Autofocus doesn´t work. The Picture isn´t sharp at all. It´s a bug? Did anyone encounter the same problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I have the same problem. It's like there's always a filter on the photos

Mi Note 10 Lite Astrophotography photo+raw samples
Hello guys, as a photography and astronomy enthusiast, i want to share my amasing experiences with my new Mi Note 10 Lite. Here is the link to most of my original samples.
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How i made these photos:
Most photos have been done with the stock camera in a non-light polluted remote place.
I chose the standard quality for the photos, as "high quality" doesn't increase quality that much, but it takes considerably more space on the phone.
I mostly used ISO6400. (ISO6400 is a bit too noisy, because denoising filter is removing detail in the stars. i would suggest a value between 3200 and 5000, making the photos a bit dimmer)
A exposure time of 30s, and focus set to infinity is mandatory for this kind of photos.
Use a very stable support, use a good tripod on a solid base. I used a car as a support (i placed the phone face down on the roof of the car), but a car is not stable enough because we leaned on it, making the car rock back and forth, and that minor rocking made a lot of photos blurry.[You can't do 30s exposure photos hand-held lol. (anything above 1/4s exposure is blurry)]
Use a bluetooth shutter button (or wireless bluetooth mouse/keyboard, or something else),or use wired headphones with button (carefully, so that you don't pull the phone), or use a timer (5 seconds should be sufficient). [pressing the shutter button, or volume button really shakes up the phone, resulting in a blurry image]
Eliminate any stray light sources (car lights, other phone's light, other lights) because any light that can shine directly or indirectly on the lens of the camera, does affect the final image a lot.
Raw or not raw:
I can say that in the stock camera the raw toggle is done poorly, as it does not save a jpg when shooting raw.
It's easier to edit a non raw photo, and with a bit of talent, excellent photos can be done with non raw (with editing, of course).
I use snapseed to edit the non raw photos on my phone, as it's great, and easy to use.
I use photoshop to edit the raw photos, the whole process takes a lot of time, luma and chroma denoising, color grading, saturation, temperature, are all a nightmare and a half.
Yes, you can get better looking photos with better quality if you use raw, but only if you know what are you doing. (usually raw astronomy photos require lots of tweaking that auto modes don't cover)
I would suggest everybody to not use raw, use the 64mp mode, way less hassle, better experience, great detail.
Google camera astrophotography experience:
I've not tried many google camera ports on this phone (PixelCam_Plus_V2.0, and PX Mod v4.0), but i've had problems with both. (when it comes to astrophotography)
PixelCam does save them after a while, but it takes an unknown amount of time, the results are ok, but i'd like to see what i captured as soon as possible, and it doesn't want to turn on astrophotography mode sometimes.
PX Mod doesn't save astrophotography photos unfortunately.
If someone knows a decent astrophotography gcam (with more than 30s of exposure), please write a reply.
Comparison with Oneplus 5
The oneplus 5 had basically the same settings, but it mostly used ISO3200, i don't know which photos are done with what iso, but assume they all were done with 3200.
Even at ISO3200, the oneplus has lots more noise, but it captures the natural yellow light of the milky way.
I think the Mi Note 10 Lite does a better job at everything, except yellow color.
You can compare side by side the shots, as they were done roughly in the same place.
Tell me your experience.

JoraForever said:
Hello guys, as a photography and astronomy enthusiast, i want to share my amasing experiences with my new Mi Note 10 Lite. Here is the link to most of my original samples.
Tell me your experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DUDE!! Your work is super amazing and I'm quite impressed! Love all of them!

[Review] Honor 9A, my thoughts on Tripple camera.

I am provided this device as courtesy of Honor UK. I am going to express my thoughts and impression on Honor 9A. This is my personal and honest opinion of the device.
Before I jump to photography aspect of the Honor 9A I would like to discuses some other aspect of this device. some of features as follows:
1. 6.3”, 88.4% screen to body ratio full view 20:9 aspect ratio display of LCD panel. ( very computable to watch video contents.)
2. Magic ui 3.1 that is honor skin of android 10 out of the box. (latest operating system, many flagship of previous years are still on the list to upgrade to this)
3. 5000 amh battery (all day long battery) and ‘Ultra Power Saving Mode’ in case the device need to run longer in minimum power (12 hours on 5% battery power)
4. 3.5 mm headphone jack ( now we can use our favourite headphones)
5. FM radio without need of DATA ( Yeah!! Just need to plug in headphone to work as antenna)
6. Super comfortable hold and use, slim design with mate finish sides for strong grip.
7. Biometric and facial lock system along with traditional pin and pattern unlock system.
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Camera
Honor 9A comes with triple rear camera and a front selfie camera. Rear cameras are 13MP Main camera along with 5MP ultra wide angle and 2MP depth sensor camera. I will summarise these camera as average in general circumstances. However if you consider the price range of the device it is above average. It is known fact that Honor devices comes with awesome camera performance. This device in particular is not focused on the camera hardware section. Moreover it lacks many popular software features of Honor camera software. This does not mean it has bad camera but it feels weaker in comparison with other Honor Device. I will simply explain good and bad aspect of the camera in my opinion in few important aspect of photography.
General photography
Its simple basic camera very useful for armature mobile photographer. Simple and easy to use. Picture quality is good enough for general use such as social media post or keeping it for memory. Images has good amount of detail and clarity. Pictures are slightly over saturated so it appears vibrant. This is perfect for general users who don’t have much knowledge of post editing.
Portrait
This device is able to capture good portrait pictures. I would not consider this is above average. It has decent amount of background blur on portrait images. I was expecting more than this considering it has 2MP depth sensor lens. However I personally did find much benefit of having that extra lens. So the portrait images are acceptable. Moreover, it does some post processing that improves image quality.
Close up/macro
It is surprisingly good for close up photography. It’s 2MP depth sensor camera rally stands out when it comes to close up photography. There is also PRO mode section where we can manually control, focus, shutter speed, ISO and so on.
Video
Video quality is fine on this device. it is able to capture up to 1080P on 30 FPS. I personally like to take video with 60fps. It might disappoint some users who are not used to with video capturing cause 30fps requires good amount of balance on video capturing. 60 fps would be beneficial in such condition. However, when captured with good balance 1080p with 30fps is considered as good quality.
Light condition
This device takes good picture in good light condition. It may over or under expose on extreme highlight and shadow condition. Meaning if you take picture of a house at sunset it may darken entire house to bring light of sun set.
It has shown weakness in low light condition. Pictures contain some amount of grain at low light. It becomes very difficult to maintain quality in very poor light condition. Such as, darker room with table light. Having said that this is important to consider that this device is introduced as budget device and this level of low light quality need to be accepted as satisfactory.
Wide angle, this device has 5MP wide angle lens. Wide angle is very useful for landscape photography. When comes to landscape photography 5MP resolution is not that helpful. We would lose significant amount of details from image due to lower resolution. when using wide angle for close up images it produces good quality pictures. but majority use of wide angle is to capture more in single frame so higher resolution would surly benefit.
Negative
I have used Honor and Huawei device before so I am aware of some of revolutionary photography features of these devices. When comes to mobile phone photography I consider 3 things is must have Nightmode, portrait and light painting. Honor has decided to ditch these key photography features. Therefore I have come to conclusion that this device is not for serious photography. This might be true as this device is targeted to different demography that may not be much interested on top end photography features. If you are looking for device that is above average on photography than you should look for some other devices such as Honor9x pro, Honor 20 pro.
In summary, honor 9 A has various key features to meet your daily demand. Please read following great review of thee product my member of this community. If you are not into much into photography and just want a simple camera phone with simplified features than this device is for you. It is able to take good quality pictures ( main lens 1x) that does not need editing most of the time. User interface in the camera app is much simplified so it is suitable for entry level consumers.
Source: https://community.hihonor.com/uk/topicdetail/Honor-9a,-my-thoughts-on-Tripple-camera/topicId_23039/