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Hi all!
All ok?!
I create this small text for a Brazilian Android Forum, called BrasilDroid, so I would put here in XDA too.
It is about the quality of our cellphones cameras and the quality of them.
A lot of definitions :
What is Photography ?
Literaly is write with light. The term is derived from Greek. photos(light) and graphos (drawing). So, the basic premise for take a picture is... Light!
What we need to take a photo?
For take a picture we need a camera with lens and film, that in digital photography is the camera sensor.
Pixel and Resolution
If we make a enlarge expansion in a photo we see various square points that make the image, this points are called Pixel. This is the minor measure that we have in our photos.
The photo resolution are directy connected to the Pixel. In a photo that have dimensions of 1920x1080 your resolution is 2,736,800 px or 2.1mpx.
Roughly, resolution is the photo area.
Quality vs Pixel
Many peoples confuse the camera quality with the amount of megapixel available.
But, quality not linked with quantity.
The Camera quality is linked direct to height of sensor and how the sensor handles the lack of light.
When we pont our camera for the scene and shoot a "curten" open and leave the sensor exposed to light. In this moment the sensor catch the light. Immediately after the "curten" close and the image is recorded.
While the obturator(the name of "curten") is open the sensor is capturing the light, so, smaller the area for capture minus details can be captured and more digital interference need to be used to create the image.
Let us consider two sensors:
Sensor 1 - 7x5mm.
Sensor 2 - 20x14mm.
These sensors be in two diferents cameras with 5mpx of resolution.
When we take a photo in 1920x1080 (Full HD) the sensor try capture the light of all scene usin 2.1 milions of points.
In First Sensor the pixel be very close, the area is smaller, making the size of these pixel be small, soon, the amount of detail that each of these pixels will be store are small.
In Second Sensor the pixels be more separated, the area is bigger, the pixels can capture mor information of the light.
The final image will be the same resolution in each sensors, but, the sensor two store more information. Considering the size of this sensors, Sensor two will store three times more information.
In other words, a small sensor need perform a big effort for store all information, are many pixels in a small area. This makes the camera need interfere in capture, generating small points between the pixels. In these moment we have other problem ... Grain...
So, for what serve the pixel ?
Enlarge.
The more megapixel used in a photo greater be your dimension, so, more we can enlarge the picture keeping the proportion without loose information.
Why the photos look better on cellphone than on the computer?
That we see in screen of cell is basically a photo in a lower resolution than the real resolution, these lower resolution hide photos imperfections and some LCDs can make a bigger shine or contrast in the photos, like the AMOLED.
How to take better photos with cell ?
1 - Don't use the max megapixel
If you are shoot with cell, certainly, be a big image don't is your objective, so, you can take photos in small resolution. In Cell with 5.0mpx take a picture with 3.2mpx only bring gain...
2 - ISO
If the camera have manual ISO, try to use the lower ISO number, the higher ISO more digital inteference, and more grain...
But, the low ISO makes the scene need more light.
3 - Prefer shooting statics objects or don't shake
Most of cellphones don't allows the manual configuration of Obturator Speed. The camera software try to choice the better speed for the scene.
The phone try balance the speed with ISO and aperture, many times the speed is going down. And slow speed is synonymous of blur photo.
How to get around this? If possible, increase the ISO or increase the exposure compensation. And let the phone as still as possible.
4 - Using flash
Flash, very polemic, but, in cell cameras can be a great ally.
When use the flash your light make that the scene freeze, reducing very much the slow speed problem.
Obvious, xeon flash is better than Led.
5 - Modify the pr proportion
Case the camera be proportion adjust try choice the best of each photo.
Proportion 4:3 = 1.333
Proportion 3:2 = 1.5
Proportion 16:9 = 1.77
To calculate the proportion just divide the bigger side by smaller.
Para calcular a proporção é só dividir o lado maior pelo lado menor.
A Photo with 2048x1536 px be : 2048 / 1536 ~= 1.333
So, the resolution 2048x1536 have proportion 4:3.
To improve the photos working with the proportion the best way is using photo's editors.
Size of Sensors:
Digital Cameras :
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(http://www.iif.com.br/site/2010/10/mitos-verdade-digital/)
Iphone and S3
(https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2708421/+200)
They noted that the lower sensor of a digital camera 1/2.5 (0.4) is ~ 25% higher than the sensor of Galaxy S3 1/3.2 (0.31)?
Guys, it is clear that we can take great pictures with our cell phones, however, the limitation of the hardware and the sensor will always do that to that quality is not expected.
After all that, you imagine how absurd it is to have a mobile phone with 41mpx resolution?
A decent camera, that resolution costs over $ 20,000 and has a huge sensor, called medium format!
I propose a challenge. I take two pictures with my Ace 2. One with 5.0mpx and other with 3.2mpx. Both are in the ratio 4:3 with 100% Crop.
which of the photos was made with 5.0mpx and what was done with 3.2mpx?
Photo one :
Photo two:
That is, questions, suggestions ... and let the discussion!
:laugh::good:
I was trying several mobile phones these days and got interested in displays. The following is what i've learned from my experiences plus online information:
It is a very easy work to tell the quality of a display, whether it is equipped on a TV or computer, or a smartphone. Just start up the device, have a look at the user interface, and you’ll get a rough impression, which, in most cases, is true to truth in the end. But there is always someone playing tricks to convince you that his display, which is not good in fact, is good, especially on the Internet.
While most people may not trust advertising maps made by CorelDraw or perfected by Photoshop, reviews do have influence on their choices. If you are going to buy a cheap phone from China, online reviews may be the only path for consultations. Unfortunately, neither all customer reviews come from real customers, nor all professional reviewers tell the whole truth.
For example, two phones with different display resolutions don’t look too different in a photo taken beyond a certain distance. Resolution, such as 1280x720 pixels, means the number of color points (pixels) that compose an image. The more pixels, the more details of a picture are shown, but when the distance between your eyes and the screen is long, the details are not so distinguishable. In most cases, we use mobile phones in a close distance.
A little theoretical? OK, I’ll compare two phones of the same 5-inch screen size but different resolutions for demonstration, namely, Axgio Neon N1 with 1280 x 720 display (HD or 720p) and THL T6S with 854x480 (480P).
I downloaded a 1920x1080 (Full HD or 1080P) picture from the Web and put its copies into both the two phones aforementioned. It’s hard to see how the Neon N1 has better performance than T6S in the first photo when my camera was held a little far from them. But in the second photo, the grass is sharp on Axgio Neon N1’s HD display, while it is a mass on THL T6S.
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Well, apart from grass, there are some scenes with smooth surface to obscure the gap between high and low resolutions even in close look, such as the sea. Smooth surface means that the colors of neighboring pixels are very similar or the same, thus the reduction in pixels may not affect the visual impressions very much.
But believe me, your eyes are more sensitive than cameras to such changes, which can be better defined in macro photos. Now you can see that the Neon N1’s 720P display has high integrity while there is mosaic with the T6S’ 480P resolution.
An HD display has about 900 thousand pixels ( 1,280x720=921,600), while a 480P display has only 400 thousand. Apparently, pixels are one time more closely arranged on a 720p display, where it’s not very easy to distinguish one pixel from others. On the other hand, there is no doubt that 480P or 540P (QHD, 960x540) screens deliver granules to your eyes in daily use.
Macro photos may be the best way to show display quality in the aspect of sharpness. For example, displays with the same face-value resolution may have varied performance in practice, while a responsible reviewer may use macro photos to make the disparity visible.
OK, let me add a 1080P display from Huawei Honor 6 before my close-up lens for a conclusion: 480P and QHD, with obvious granules; 720P HD, smooth; 1080P FHD, impressive.
I didn’t mean to say THL T6S was equipped with a bad display. On the contrary, it performs quite well at its native resolution among Chinese phones, just like Axgio Neon N1 and Huawei Honor 6.
Besides real resolution, another factor that concerns users is color. If you ever got interested in photography, you would know that color is highly vulnerable to camera settings. If a professional reviewer modifies settings to enhance contrast or saturation, it’s impossible for ordinary consumers to discern that.
But if someone plays the comparative trick, there is a way to tell. We know that no display can avoid color shift when it is viewed in an acute angle, and it’s where a dishonest reviewer can deceive consumers. He may let his camera and desktop form an acute angle, put a well-reputed phone at the far end, place an advertised phone in the center of the scene, and then shoot a picture showing the false impression that his phone is as good as or even better than the real excellent one.
I’ll still use two Chinese phones to demonstrate the trick. In the first photo, when Axgio Neon N1 was located in a bad place, it looks worse than Cubot X6 (720P display, too). But when my view angle is vertical to the desktop, you can see that the N1 is truer to life.
Again, I appeal that all professional review sites should use macro photos to show display colors, because in such a distance, color shift can be neglected.
Well, as we all know by now, the camera on the Xperia XZ is quite moody. In my experience, its been mediocre at best. The low light photography is super disappointing. Then again, I'm quite an amateur at professional grade photography. The Galaxy S6 Edge never really required me to be.
I have, however, noticed some of you guys are getting tremendous shots on the XZ. What I want to know from you brilliant people is how do I operate this camera to its maximum potential? Superior Auto mode/Manual Mode? What would the optimum resolution be? And if there are any standard manual settings for best results? Touch to focus or focus via half pressing the shutter button(It said somewhere that the laser autofocus might not work when we touch to focus)? Using the system app or using an alternative like the Google Camera?
Help a fellow homie out, please, thanks guys!
magicalsalad said:
Well, as we all know by now, the camera on the Xperia XZ is quite moody. In my experience, its been mediocre at best. The low light photography is super disappointing. Then again, I'm quite an amateur at professional grade photography. The Galaxy S6 Edge never really required me to be.
I have, however, noticed some of you guys are getting tremendous shots on the XZ. What I want to know from you brilliant people is how do I operate this camera to its maximum potential? Superior Auto mode/Manual Mode? What would the optimum resolution be? And if there are any standard manual settings for best results? Touch to focus or focus via half pressing the shutter button(It said somewhere that the laser autofocus might not work when we touch to focus)? Using the system app or using an alternative like the Google Camera?
Help a fellow homie out, please, thanks guys!
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Hi there. I'm not pro either but here are my findings I hope you can understand the logic of my how I optimise:
Resolution should always be set to 8mp (4:3) for best quality as the XZ super samples the photo.
Auto white balance is pretty good but can occassionally be a bit cold. If the lighting is good, you can actually go into Auto mode and tune the colour temperature more accurately than in manual mode (pretty ridiculous) which only gives stuff like, tungsten/halogen/cloudy/sunny. If it's low light, superior auto is going to put the ISO very high and ruin the photos with noise if you're not careful.
For low light photos, what you're aiming for is the longest possible shutter time and lowest EV exposure. Stupidly again, setting manual shutter time forces the ISO into auto mode which means you have to get used to what settings in what lighting conditions will give you a low automatic exposure.
So in low light you would set perhaps 0.5s/ or 0.25s shutter time, try to keep a negative EV. This only works if your photo is stationary and you have a mount or steady hand. 0.5s without something to rest on is going to be pretty much impossible, 0.25 with something to rest on is easy, 1/8th and 1/16th second you can manage hand held but if your subject is moving, they are likely to blur too. If you're trying to take a photo at low light of moving objects you're mostly out of luck, the XZ simply isn't great at low light. Perhaps use auto shutter time and fix ISO to either 400 or 800 and see if that works for you.
For outdoor conditions with bright backgrounds you may have to resort to HDR mode, but it gets kinda complicated deciding what looks better. I noticed some bright ourdoor shots are too vibrant and HDR looks really unnatural. Also there can be a turquoise shift in the sky, same as in x performance test on Dxomark.
8mp is the best?! Can you explain a bit?
Heinous said:
8mp is the best?! Can you explain a bit?
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it's better as I believe it uses the information from the full 24mp to super sample an improved 8mp picture. Essentially tries to cram in the information from larger resolution into a smaller area.
If you zoom in 1:1 with the 23mp image, you see a lot of noise artifacts, with the 8mp obviously is the same as zooming into the 23mp less so you don't see it as much. 23 mp can certainly contain more detail than 8 mp, however the sharpening artifacts can be more pronounced in a 23mp crop compared with 8mp crop of the same area. 8mp is a bit softer and there is less that appears "wrong". I will try and make some examples later perhaps. (or prove myself wrong...who knows )
Ok took a few photos to try and illustrate why 8mp is better.
I took two photos, one at 8mp and the other at 23mp, both at exactly the same settings, 40 iso.
I then scaled the 23mp to 8mp using image resizing in photoshop then took 100% crops to show part of the picture.
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Notice in particular around the black seal on the window frame the extra noise on the 23mp crop. I believe the difference is the point at which the xz applies sharpening. On a 23mp photo, it applies the sharpening right after taking the raw photo.
However, in the case of the 8mp photo, it super samples a 23mp pixel raw (either resize or combines pixel data to produce the 8mp, THEN applies sharpening. So in the 8mp, the image information is taken from 23mp and compressed into 8mp, whereas on 23mp it sharpens first, and after you resize it or look at it on a monitor there sharpening artifacts are much more noticeable.
Here is another example at 400iso , look at the threads and pins and the extra noise and distortion on the 23mp photo.
23mp photos DO contain more detail, BUT only if viewed 100% at which point it looks like crap anyway due to sharpening of a noisy photo.
23mp downsized to 8mp has LESS detail compared to taking the photo in 8mp because of the difference where the sharpening is applied.
So the conclusion: Take photos at 8mp (or even 2mp haha because the same theory applies there) Sharpening should happen last in post processing not before denoise/resize.
I've trying out the camera at 8mp, but I haven't had a chance to really look at the results on a large display to see the difference.
Any other recommendations for getting the best photos out of this camera?
I guess one benefit of using the camera at 8mp is that you should be able take advantage unlimited full-size backups on Google Photos. If you use the 23mp setting, they will either count against your storage limit or be reduced to 16mp...
Say "cheese", then rate this thread to express how photos taken with the Xiaomi Mi Note 10 Lite come out. A higher rating indicates that photos offer rich color (without over-saturating), sharp detail (with all subjects in-focus), and appropriate exposure (with even lighting).
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
Sometimes the Autofocus doesn´t work. The Picture isn´t sharp at all. It´s a bug? Did anyone encounter the same problem?
Tikil said:
Sometimes the Autofocus doesn´t work. The Picture isn´t sharp at all. It´s a bug? Did anyone encounter the same problem?
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Yeah I have the same problem. It's like there's always a filter on the photos
Mi Note 10 Lite Astrophotography photo+raw samples
Hello guys, as a photography and astronomy enthusiast, i want to share my amasing experiences with my new Mi Note 10 Lite. Here is the link to most of my original samples.
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How i made these photos:
Most photos have been done with the stock camera in a non-light polluted remote place.
I chose the standard quality for the photos, as "high quality" doesn't increase quality that much, but it takes considerably more space on the phone.
I mostly used ISO6400. (ISO6400 is a bit too noisy, because denoising filter is removing detail in the stars. i would suggest a value between 3200 and 5000, making the photos a bit dimmer)
A exposure time of 30s, and focus set to infinity is mandatory for this kind of photos.
Use a very stable support, use a good tripod on a solid base. I used a car as a support (i placed the phone face down on the roof of the car), but a car is not stable enough because we leaned on it, making the car rock back and forth, and that minor rocking made a lot of photos blurry.[You can't do 30s exposure photos hand-held lol. (anything above 1/4s exposure is blurry)]
Use a bluetooth shutter button (or wireless bluetooth mouse/keyboard, or something else),or use wired headphones with button (carefully, so that you don't pull the phone), or use a timer (5 seconds should be sufficient). [pressing the shutter button, or volume button really shakes up the phone, resulting in a blurry image]
Eliminate any stray light sources (car lights, other phone's light, other lights) because any light that can shine directly or indirectly on the lens of the camera, does affect the final image a lot.
Raw or not raw:
I can say that in the stock camera the raw toggle is done poorly, as it does not save a jpg when shooting raw.
It's easier to edit a non raw photo, and with a bit of talent, excellent photos can be done with non raw (with editing, of course).
I use snapseed to edit the non raw photos on my phone, as it's great, and easy to use.
I use photoshop to edit the raw photos, the whole process takes a lot of time, luma and chroma denoising, color grading, saturation, temperature, are all a nightmare and a half.
Yes, you can get better looking photos with better quality if you use raw, but only if you know what are you doing. (usually raw astronomy photos require lots of tweaking that auto modes don't cover)
I would suggest everybody to not use raw, use the 64mp mode, way less hassle, better experience, great detail.
Google camera astrophotography experience:
I've not tried many google camera ports on this phone (PixelCam_Plus_V2.0, and PX Mod v4.0), but i've had problems with both. (when it comes to astrophotography)
PixelCam does save them after a while, but it takes an unknown amount of time, the results are ok, but i'd like to see what i captured as soon as possible, and it doesn't want to turn on astrophotography mode sometimes.
PX Mod doesn't save astrophotography photos unfortunately.
If someone knows a decent astrophotography gcam (with more than 30s of exposure), please write a reply.
Comparison with Oneplus 5
The oneplus 5 had basically the same settings, but it mostly used ISO3200, i don't know which photos are done with what iso, but assume they all were done with 3200.
Even at ISO3200, the oneplus has lots more noise, but it captures the natural yellow light of the milky way.
I think the Mi Note 10 Lite does a better job at everything, except yellow color.
You can compare side by side the shots, as they were done roughly in the same place.
Tell me your experience.
JoraForever said:
Hello guys, as a photography and astronomy enthusiast, i want to share my amasing experiences with my new Mi Note 10 Lite. Here is the link to most of my original samples.
Tell me your experience.
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DUDE!! Your work is super amazing and I'm quite impressed! Love all of them!
Have had a couple of bright daylight shots come out like garbage, low detail low quality smudged detail. so just happened to look in settings and no HDR/+. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with my previous pixels but could have sworn there were HDR settings in Google camera on the 6a?
Strange. Reddit says...
Google is even more cryptic.
Raw mode be your next and better option. Those will require post processing which is done using a photo app that has an adjustable contrast curve option.
Thanks! Raw wouldn't have helped this shot. looks like needed the stacking that HDR provides. making sure I'm not crazy, the option was there before, no? It's definitely still kicking in in some cases but seems somehow auto / Left up to googles algorithms. Unfortunately that leaves us with a lot of garbage shots
Compared to a Canon pro cam all smartphone cams are a pain to use and limited especially for setup options and speed. I lose a lot of shots because that. I never liked HDR's; a properly exposed shot doesn't need it. Raws give you at least 2 full f-stop exposure and WB correction.
No option to shoot multiple burst exposures at different exposure settings either on smartphones.
Even on my Samsung N10+ the HDR setting when toggled on will decide for you if it will be used. That can and does screw up shots when on... sometimes. No real control
Perhaps Google will update that missing feature soon. Rather sloppy of them. Not near as inept as their lame idea implement forced scoped storage though.
That's a bomb I'm still running Pie and 10 to evade that terror.
The issue is these tiny sensors. The photo stacking/ computational photography helps exponentially. When it doesn't kick in, it can be very bad. You're right RAW can definitely help some but there's only so much it can do. Here's two shots, one when the computational kicked in and the other apparently not. These were taken on the fly (my gf and her kid, not random people), so obviously not great composition just an example of what I mean.
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Not available for pixel 4a and above. It is default ON.
damian5000 said:
The issue is these tiny sensors. The photo stacking/ computational photography helps exponentially. When it doesn't kick in, it can be very bad. You're right RAW can definitely help some but there's only so much it can do. Here's two shots, one when the computational kicked in and the other apparently not. These were taken on the fly (my gf and her kid, not random people), so obviously not great composition just an example of what I mean.
View attachment 5770083
View attachment 5770085
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That's not much difference.
On a raw file (or maybe even a jpeg) you could do that and better using an adjustable contrast curve with settable adjustment points. Takes a bit of practice and a color calibrated monitor.
Wow man, the difference is massive. Look again at the detail in all areas. Detail completely smudged out in the faces, the animal, the plants.
damian5000 said:
Wow man, the difference is massive. Look again at the detail in all areas. Detail completely smudged out in the faces, the animal, the plants.
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Yeah just saw that. Not sure what the cause is though. The face is messed up. I suspect it's the jpeg processing algorithm.
It's also the animal, the plant life to the right can be seen easily. This is what I'm talking about in regards to the photo stacking, what enables these tiny sensors to get decent IQ.
But also, looking at the exif, the bad shot is at 1/7200 ISO 700, that's insanely dim for these little sensors, I'm assuming the digitally brightened. I'm GUESSING I may have been moving (or they were moving) and Google algorithm decides to snap a "sport" shot rather than have something completely unusable? In the case, if so, also no time for stacking in a "sport" shot. Just a guess.
The other 1/400 ISO 45, though I'm not sure how they calculate the latter with stacking/HDR. Whether it's an average of all shots or what.
damian5000 said:
It's also the animal, the plant life to the right can be seen easily. This is what I'm talking about in regards to the photo stacking, what enables these tiny sensors to get decent IQ.
But also, looking at the exif, the bad shot is at 1/7200 ISO 700, that's insanely dim for these little sensors, I'm assuming the digitally brightened. I'm GUESSING I may have been moving (or they were moving) and Google algorithm decides to snap a "sport" shot rather than have something completely unusable? In the case, if so, also no time for stacking in a "sport" shot. Just a guess.
The other 1/400 ISO 45, though I'm not sure how they calculate the latter with stacking/HDR. Whether it's an average of all shots or what.
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The cam sensor temperature can also increase the noise floor level. With the lense and sensor size as small as they are it's a wonder they can do this good. The narrow depth of focus doesn't help things either.
Cam shake may also play a role as well; the lighter the cam the less stable the shooting platform. Smartphones have no handholds. Not near as easy to shoot with compared to a pro cam and lense that weighs 5 pounds. The larger lens are easier to shoot because of the added weight.
Smartphone cams are convenient but damn I lose a lot of keepers because of them in shutter lag alone.