My Radio is an Eonon GA2154 (MTCD_KLD). I'm trying to determine if the problem I'm having is a defect with my radio or if there is a problem with my car that's causing an issue with my radio.
I have my ACC standby time set to 2 hours. If I simply turn the key to ACC or ON (but don't crank the engine) in that timethe radio will come out of standby every time. If I crank the engine, the radio will restart and cold boot 9/10 times. When it restarts, I get a small electric pop from the speakers.
The continuous 12V power is wired directly to the battery, the GND is wired to the body of the car, and the ACC power is coming from the factory harness. When first installed, I had everything connected to the factory harness, but I rewired it an attempt to isolate the problem.
Monitor the voltage on your continuous 12V power line when starting your car. Use something that records min and max (handheld DMM). The voltage might be dropping too much when the starter engages to turn over the motor - that's a huge electrical load on the battery (the starter).
Luxferro said:
Monitor the voltage on your continuous 12V power line when starting your car. Use something that records min and max (handheld DMM). The voltage might be dropping too much when the starter engages to turn over the motor - that's a huge electrical load on the battery (the starter).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The car turns over and starts fine. Are you suggesting that perhaps the power draw from the starter is enough to kill the radio?
runningslow said:
The car turns over and starts fine. Are you suggesting that perhaps the power draw from the starter is enough to kill the radio?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a possibility. If you want to narrow down if it's the car or the headunit, you probably want to know what is going on on both the switched and non-switched power lines from the car. If the voltage levels are all good during car starting, then you at least eliminated one variable.
Luxferro said:
It's a possibility. If you want to narrow down if it's the car or the headunit, you probably want to know what is going on on both the switched and non-switched power lines from the car. If the voltage levels are all good during car starting, then you at least eliminated one variable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, I'll try to get some data this evening after I get home from work. I'll dust off my handy DMM.
So, I'm going to check:
Voltage at battery during start
Voltage on constant power during start
Voltage on ACC during start
I have some ideas to bypass the crank event causing the reboot, should it in fact be something with the radio.
runningslow said:
Okay, I'll try to get some data this evening after I get home from work. I'll dust off my handy DMM.
So, I'm going to check:
Voltage at battery during start
Voltage on constant power during start
Voltage on ACC during start
I have some ideas to bypass the crank event causing the reboot, should it in fact be something with the radio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've taken some measurements from the constant 12V and ACC wires based on different key positions [OFF, ACC, ON (with engine off), START (cranking engine), ON (with engine running)] with my DMM and they are as follows:
Battery OFF: 12.4v
Constant 12V OFF: 12.4v
Constant 12V ACC: 12.4v
Constant 12V ON: 12.1v
Constant 12V START: dipped as low as 8.0v when starting through multiple test
Constant 12V ON (engine running): 14.0v
ACC 12V OFF: 0.0v
ACC 12V ACC: 12.3v
ACC 12V ON: 12.4v
ACC 12V START: 0.0v
ACC 12V ON (engine running): 14.0v
Functioning normally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RGwgVxG9gE
Cold booting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3fZ6h0IBUI
I've been chatting with a Toyota Tech friend of mine who owns the same car and he suspects that voltage may be dropping too low (< 9.0V) during the crank and that it can't sustain the radio and it cold boots. I'm also occastionally loosing the memory for my auto-matic door locks as well. I had suspected it was the radio causing some sort of backfeed into a common wire causing the memory to erase, but the only wire they would have had in common I've bypassed by wiring directly to the battery. So, perhaps that voltage drop is causing both to reset.
EDIT: While I haven't had any other telltale signs, I definitely think battery is on its way out. I'm going to try an experiment tonight with my other car. I'm going to connect it to a second car with jumper cables this evening and see if I can get it to cold boot. Having it connected to a the second running car should prevent the voltage from dropping too much while cranking mine.
runningslow said:
I've taken some measurements from the constant 12V and ACC wires based on different key positions [OFF, ACC, ON (with engine off), START (cranking engine), ON (with engine running)] with my DMM and they are as follows:
Battery OFF: 12.4v
Constant 12V OFF: 12.4v
Constant 12V ACC: 12.4v
Constant 12V ON: 12.1v
Constant 12V START: dipped as low as 8.0v when starting through multiple test
Constant 12V ON (engine running): 14.0v
ACC 12V OFF: 0.0v
ACC 12V ACC: 12.3v
ACC 12V ON: 12.4v
ACC 12V START: 0.0v
ACC 12V ON (engine running): 14.0v
Functioning normally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RGwgVxG9gE
Cold booting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3fZ6h0IBUI
I've been chatting with a Toyota Tech friend of mine who owns the same car and he suspects that voltage may be dropping too low (< 9.0V) during the crank and that it can't sustain the radio and it cold boots. I'm also occastionally loosing the memory for my auto-matic door locks as well. I had suspected it was the radio causing some sort of backfeed into a common wire causing the memory to erase, but the only wire they would have had in common I've bypassed by wiring directly to the battery. So, perhaps that voltage drop is causing both to reset.
EDIT: While I haven't had any other telltale signs, I definitely think battery is on its way out. I'm going to try an experiment tonight with my other car. I'm going to connect it to a second car with jumper cables this evening and see if I can get it to cold boot. Having it connected to a the second running car should prevent the voltage from dropping too much while cranking mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting measurements.
My MTCD intel sometimes starts in cold and other times from standby (i have not faound any pattern)
It is expected that always start from standby
Probably my voltage that times was low and that's why it goes to cold boot when starting.
ikerg said:
interesting measurements.
My MTCD intel sometimes starts in cold and other times from standby (i have not faound any pattern)
It is expected that always start from standby
Probably my voltage that times was low and that's why it goes to cold boot when starting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you've got a DMM, then check your voltage while cranking the engine. My Toyota Tech friend said that anything under 10V while cranking might cause problems like this or mess with other electronics in your car.
Oh, and as an update to that information. I did the test of connecting my wife's car with jumper cables and I couldn't get the thing to cold boot. The radio properly came out of standby every time. I now 100% believe (maybe 99%...) that battery is starting to go. Unless I get stranded somewhere or have to legitimately jump start the car, I'm going to live with the problem for now. I'm pricing new ones and I'll probably pick one up in a few weeks.
runningslow said:
If you've got a DMM, then check your voltage while cranking the engine. My Toyota Tech friend said that anything under 10V while cranking might cause problems like this or mess with other electronics in your car.
Oh, and as an update to that information. I did the test of connecting my wife's car with jumper cables and I couldn't get the thing to cold boot. The radio properly came out of standby every time. I now 100% believe (maybe 99%...) that battery is starting to go. Unless I get stranded somewhere or have to legitimately jump start the car, I'm going to live with the problem for now. I'm pricing new ones and I'll probably pick one up in a few weeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My battery is completely new (i did change it in Decemeber), so i have to manage why sometimes cold boot exists (if it is related to voltage).
The problem is to measure it... as it is a random event i dont know how to manage to capture if the voltage drops occur
I have a joying mtcd and had to change the standby time from 2 hours to 10 minutes. It was draining the battery enough that the voltage was dropping low overnight and when starting. My radio didn't malfunction, but the cars computers didn't like the lower voltage. I would have random error lights or behavior with gauges while starting the car.
I have a Joying Intel unit, same problem caused by the voltage drop.
I installed a second 0,8Ah Batterie and a diode to solve the problem, it keeps the radio alive during the starting process and works very well.
Some users reported a capacitor on acc line might also work, but not for me. The acc line was not responsible for the reboot problem.
Chr1Zz_ said:
I have a Joying Intel unit, same problem caused by the voltage drop.
I installed a second 0,8Ah Batterie and a diode to solve the problem, it keeps the radio alive during the starting process and works very well.
Some users reported a capacitor on acc line might also work, but not for me. The acc line was not responsible for the reboot problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I wouldn't think the ACC is responsible, since it will get cut during the engine cranking anyway. The issue is the voltage drop from the battery on the constant 12V line. I was thinking about a capacitor or something like that on the constant 12V.
Would you be able to elaborate more what you did to solve the problem?
runningslow said:
Yeah, I wouldn't think the ACC is responsible, since it will get cut during the engine cranking anyway. The issue is the voltage drop from the battery on the constant 12V line. I was thinking about a capacitor or something like that on the constant 12V.
Would you be able to elaborate more what you did to solve the problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I installed a second battery parallel to the car battery, it's directly connected to the radio and small enough to take place behind it. A diode prevents the second small batterie during the engine cranking, so only the car batterie will be used for this process.
Maybe I can draw a picture to show how the connection is done if there are some people interested.
The costs for this construction is about 10-15€.
alex.o said:
I have a joying mtcd and had to change the standby time from 2 hours to 10 minutes. It was draining the battery enough that the voltage was dropping low overnight and when starting. My radio didn't malfunction, but the cars computers didn't like the lower voltage. I would have random error lights or behavior with gauges while starting the car.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My solution to prevent the cold boots has been to just set the standby to 30 seconds. That way I'm not expecting it to come out of standby. Even in this situation, I'm seeing other unwanted behavior with the car, like the settings for my automatic door locks. So, the low battery voltage isn't strictly effecting the head unit.
Chr1Zz_ said:
I installed a second battery parallel to the car battery, it's directly connected to the radio and small enough to take place behind it. A diode prevents the second small batterie during the engine cranking, so only the car batterie will be used for this process.
Maybe I can draw a picture to show how the connection is done if there are some people interested.
The costs for this construction is about 10-15€.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I see what you're doing, but please, sketch up a diagram. I'm interested, even if no one else is. Thanks!
I'm planning to replace the battery in the car soon, probably this coming weekend, but it would be nice to have another layer of protection with the radio.
runningslow said:
I think I see what you're doing, but please, sketch up a diagram. I'm interested, even if no one else is. Thanks!
I'm planning to replace the battery in the car soon, probably this coming weekend, but it would be nice to have another layer of protection with the radio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am interested too
On Intel Units there is no Stanby timer configuration anymore. They did remove it from software, as it is expected to have very low current consuming during the standby (and, due to the lot of problems that they had on the RK3188 units with this setting).
Okay, I created a small sketch just for now, hope you can see what I did. Maybe I can do a better one when I have more time.
The green painted wire is the yellow one in your car, I just had no yellow.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1jr28rqbd9mbr2j/IMG_20170116_215625~01.jpg?dl=0
Chr1Zz_ said:
Okay, I created a small sketch just for now, hope you can see what I did. Maybe I can do a better one when I have more time.
The green painted wire is the yellow one in your car, I just had no yellow.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1jr28rqbd9mbr2j/IMG_20170116_215625~01.jpg?dl=0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perfect. Thank you.
Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk
Chr1Zz_ said:
Okay, I created a small sketch just for now, hope you can see what I did. Maybe I can do a better one when I have more time.
The green painted wire is the yellow one in your car, I just had no yellow.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1jr28rqbd9mbr2j/IMG_20170116_215625~01.jpg?dl=0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so I can source the battery for this, but I'm not as certain about the diode. Something like this?
runningslow said:
Okay, so I can source the battery for this, but I'm not as certain about the diode. Something like this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like the battery which I bought, too, I payed 9€ on eBay.
The diode should work, but I think there are also cheaper ones available.
Related
My HTC universal crashes ( shuts off) after being disconnected from the charger for only a short while. I have noticed this when trying to make a telephone call and when listening to an audio book on Media.
The device is about 3 years old. The OS is Tomal version 8.5..is it an OS problem or battery problem.
I dont want to invest in a new battery if that is not the problem.
it's the battery!
It has to be the battery,see if it's bulged in the middle...means it has to be replaced.You keep using a near dead battery and one day it may leak/explode and damage your beloved Uni.Just change it.Or borrow one and see how your device performs so you can decide...
I neglected to mention that the battery shows 95 % charged when this happens. I can get back to the device if I plug it in.
Can you recommend a new battery?
rkbrouwer said:
I neglected to mention that the battery shows 95 % charged when this happens. I can get back to the device if I plug it in.
Can you recommend a new battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
95% of not much charge is still 95% charged, its the battery. If you look on Ebay you can find batteries quite reasonable, but try to go for an original one.
Jay
Is that really true? The amount that the 95% is applied to is not a fixed amount and decreases over time? If that is so what is the purpose of something that says 95% full? How can I find out what full is?
Imagine a fuel gauge like that. The size of the tank gets smaller and smaller.
Testing your battery
The only true way to test your battery is to measure its voltage. the two larger terminals on the battery are the + and _, the _ is the terminal nearest the corner. test it with a mulimeter, if it is below 3.75 volt then charge it and test again. If it drops below 3.75 volts after a short time then it is worn out. the battery bar on the screen is only a rough idea of power left.
Hope this clears this up for you
Jay
Voltage shouldn't be dropped, it will be same even if there is no charge.
The cell's inside the battery are not capable to retain the charge and immediately returns a signal to the control circuit that he is full! Control circuit then triggers an updates to the memory chip (located under control circuit).
Polling mechanism (triggers by the driver) in the device gets the battery status directly from the memory chip and it is the main reason basically getting a false percentage.
Anyway, just replace the battery and everything will be fine then.
Has anyone tried the suggestions mentioned under XDA wiki before replacing the battery. One alternative was to discharge the battery completely by freezing it and then rechargingt it. Another was to tape the two indicator terminals.
BTW what is the effect of going into "bootloader (by backlight+power+reset button)" as mentioned in solving the battery problem undeer wiki XDAI hope that it does not mean that I have reinstall Mobile 6.1
3 years is old enough for battery, i think its your time to buy a new one.
if you want to try one of that method, i suggest you trying a tape method. i try with my batery (fals indicator) and it work.
going to bootloader for drain your battery. for me i turn on wifi and blue tooth at the same time, set band to G3 and turn GPRS on, and playing music and games. it drain faster
tomal said:
Voltage shouldn't be dropped, it will be same even if there is no charge.
The cell's inside the battery are not capable to retain the charge and immediately returns a signal to the control circuit that he is full! Control circuit then triggers an updates to the memory chip (located under control circuit).
Polling mechanism (triggers by the driver) in the device gets the battery status directly from the memory chip and it is the main reason basically getting a false percentage.
Anyway, just replace the battery and everything will be fine then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
master chef tomal is right , its the ability or capacity of the battery to hold proper amperage or power. you cannot simply measure the voltage across the terminals as it will not be definitive in ascertaining such holding capacity especially for battery that is about to deteriorate its cells (not yet fully dead).
Of course, if the reading is below than the usual rating, the only logical option is for you to replace it asap. but if its within the range, you have to do further testing.. and, if you want to experiment a little, try to put a load across its terminals like an LED with 1kohm resistor, and then measure the voltage. if it drops drastically, your battery is ready for retirement However, if the voltage rating remains, measure the time your battery will be fully discharged using that load. thereafter, let me know how many hours or day it lasted to help me compute the approximate amperage of your battery, regards... :
Hi all.
I've over-discharged my stock battery and now it doesn't charge. It lights up green as soon as I plug the charger. I've tried different chargers but didn't help.
I've made this using short circuit so don't think it's related to Sensation. You may ask why I tought over-discharging may solve the touchscreen issues. Don't know if it's solved because phone doesn't open.
Do you have any advice to restore the battery rather that getting a new battery? I've already ordered new battery though.
Certain laptop battery manufacturers use a circuit which stores battery charge information, but is itself, "kept alive" by the residual current in (even a dead) battery.
I've seen the case on a number of times that discharging below the "allowed" level causes this circuit to fail, thus the communication between battery and device is incorrect, inaccurate or, at worst, not there at all.
(this is why there are more than just + - on your battery)
You could find the correct recharge rate for the battery - current and voltage - and charge it manually, and hope that said 'battery state circuit' comes back to life, but honestly, I think you'll be, as they say, SOL.
I've had perfectly good laptop batteries, holding a full charge, having a great discharge rate, but the laptop would refuse to accept it, just because of this little circuit.
WARNING: Charging / over charging / charging in a way other than in accordance with the original device literature can VERY likely cause the battery to fail completely, including, but not limited to FIRE or EXPLOSION! DO NOT PROCEED UNLESS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. LiPo (and LiIon for that matter) are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS when used wrongly!
All the above said, have fun, don't blow yourself up, and let us know how you get on. Also, from a personal point of view, I'd be interested to know the 'technical reasons' behind the thought that over-discharging could solve the touch-screen problem - can you remember where you got the info originally?
Figure_desire said:
Hi all.
I've over-discharged my stock battery and now it doesn't charge. It lights up green as soon as I plug the charger. I've tried different chargers but didn't help.
I've made this using short circuit so don't think it's related to Sensation. You may ask why I tought over-discharging may solve the touchscreen issues. Don't know if it's solved because phone doesn't open.
Do you have any advice to restore the battery rather that getting a new battery? I've already ordered new battery though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wtf? did you shortcut the battery or the phone? if shortcut the battery it my be blown. Anywyas you could try jump charging it, unplug and plug it in fast, or put it in a outlet which has a switch and try toggling it on and off for some minutes, you may be able to jump it up to the voltage it needs to start charge
niddnet said:
Certain laptop battery manufacturers use a circuit which stores battery charge information, but is itself, "kept alive" by the residual current in (even a dead) battery.
I've seen the case on a number of times that discharging below the "allowed" level causes this circuit to fail, thus the communication between battery and device is incorrect, inaccurate or, at worst, not there at all.
(this is why there are more than just + - on your battery)
You could find the correct recharge rate for the battery - current and voltage - and charge it manually, and hope that said 'battery state circuit' comes back to life, but honestly, I think you'll be, as they say, SOL.
I've had perfectly good laptop batteries, holding a full charge, having a great discharge rate, but the laptop would refuse to accept it, just because of this little circuit.
WARNING: Charging / over charging / charging in a way other than in accordance with the original device literature can VERY likely cause the battery to fail completely, including, but not limited to FIRE or EXPLOSION! DO NOT PROCEED UNLESS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. LiPo (and LiIon for that matter) are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS when used wrongly!
All the above said, have fun, don't blow yourself up, and let us know how you get on. Also, from a personal point of view, I'd be interested to know the 'technical reasons' behind the thought that over-discharging could solve the touch-screen problem - can you remember where you got the info originally?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my second unit and it has touchscreen problems too. I'm not an expert but here is why I did that.
My phone was working normally and had %20 battery left. I went outside and didn't have extra battery or charger so I've used my friend's USB cable and lapto to charge it. After it reached to 44% I unplugged it and saw touchscreen issues started. I've searched and remembered some advices from XDA like discharging and charging may solve it so I gave it a try but it didn't help. Then tried over-discharging and charging but stock here.
What do you mean by charge it manually?
Utking said:
wtf? did you shortcut the battery or the phone? if shortcut the battery it my be blown. Anywyas you could try jump charging it, unplug and plug it in fast, or put it in a outlet which has a switch and try toggling it on and off for some minutes, you may be able to jump it up to the voltage it needs to start charge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did short circuit the battery I know sounds crazy but I'm sick of touchscreen issues. Are you saying that I may try connecting it an appropriate charger's output directly like + > + , - > - ?
I'm saying, chances are, it's wrecked. You shouldn't really discharge batteries by short-circuit - that puts massive stresses on the structure of the cells in the battery and probably completely ruins it.
It can also cause excessive heat, which can lead to nasty things happening.
Recharging the battery by connecting + to + and - to - is theoretically possible, however, to do this SAFELY, you would need to know the manufacturer's recommended charge rate, times, voltages etc. They differ greatly.
Do it too slowly, and you just result in a very inefficient trickle-charge, which can sometimes do more harm than good....
Do it too fast - cells in the battery become gaseous, the gas vents, and you have fiery explosions... also not good.
Seriously - I would strongly recommend against playing with it. If you want to see what CAN happen when it goes wrong, YouTube it!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3o_2mwRPdw
Insane amounts of energy stored in these batteries
niddnet said:
I'm saying, chances are, it's wrecked. You shouldn't really discharge batteries by short-circuit - that puts massive stresses on the structure of the cells in the battery and probably completely ruins it.
It can also cause excessive heat, which can lead to nasty things happening.
Recharging the battery by connecting + to + and - to - is theoretically possible, however, to do this SAFELY, you would need to know the manufacturer's recommended charge rate, times, voltages etc. They differ greatly.
Do it too slowly, and you just result in a very inefficient trickle-charge, which can sometimes do more harm than good....
Do it too fast - cells in the battery become gaseous, the gas vents, and you have fiery explosions... also not good.
Seriously - I would strongly recommend against playing with it. If you want to see what CAN happen when it goes wrong, YouTube it!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yesterday I connected the battery which is stock 3.7 V to the my digital camera's charger which is 4.25 V, 0.25 A, 50-60 Hz with cables for 6 hours but didn't work. BTW, stock charger is 5V, 1 A and 50-60 Hz.
Can I try jump charge with this camera's charger? If I can, how fast should I connect and disconnect the cable?
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
It should be noted that the Sensation stock battery is LiIon, rather than LiPo, but the effects can be very similar, and just as disasterous if that happens when your battery is in the vicinity of.... anything!!!
I think it's dead mate =/ but just switch it on and off a couple of times in a second
Utking said:
I think it's dead mate =/ but just switch it on and off a couple of times in a second
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couple of times in a second? I'm not a Flash man Or Shelden Cooper
Just tried but didn't work.
Short circuited battery? Hopefully it wasn't in the phone. Battery is dead, get Anker.
tinky1 said:
Short circuited battery? Hopefully it wasn't in the phone. Battery is dead, get Anker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Already ordered stock battery. When Anker is available to Europe I will order it too.
Figure_desire said:
Already ordered stock battery. When Anker is available to Europe I will order it too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then buy the chichitek one, it's awesome and lasts just as long as the anker, if not longer, and they ship to europe! i got two chichitek batteries+ charger for 25$ usd inc shipping to norway
Anyone having charging issue. I ran my shield battery down when I first got it. Then I plug it in to charger. Its been charging over 8 hours and still not at 100 percent. took it off charge at 80 percent. No way it should take this long. I read on reviews it took like 4 to 5 hours.
evobunny said:
Anyone having charging issue. I ran my shield battery down when I first got it. Then I plug it in to charger. Its been charging over 8 hours and still not at 100 percent. took it off charge at 80 percent. No way it should take this long. I read on reviews it took like 4 to 5 hours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You used the charger that it came with? And you're not playing games the entire time it's charging, right?
agrabren said:
You used the charger that it came with? And you're not playing games the entire time it's charging, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes I use charger that came with it. and it was charging over night when I was sleeping.
That sounds really odd. What does the battery usage say for the device? Was it awake the whole time? Does it think it was charging all night?
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium HD app
I feel like that has happened on my nexus 7 before. I bet it is an android thing. I would try again and see if it acts up a second time.
agrabren said:
That sounds really odd. What does the battery usage say for the device? Was it awake the whole time? Does it think it was charging all night?
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when I was charging, i close the screen. so it went to sleep. I dont know how you can tell if it think it was charging all night. I went to battery info and its said 13.6 hours on battery. and 48 percent of that was screen usage. rest was on game and apps.
evobunny said:
when I was charging, i close the screen. so it went to sleep. I dont know how you can tell if it think it was charging all night. I went to battery info and its said 13.6 hours on battery. and 48 percent of that was screen usage. rest was on game and apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you go into the "Battery Info" and touch on the graph area, it'll show you below some bars of time spent on different functions (like charging)
evobunny said:
when I was charging, i close the screen. so it went to sleep. I dont know how you can tell if it think it was charging all night. I went to battery info and its said 13.6 hours on battery. and 48 percent of that was screen usage. rest was on game and apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Sometimes the battery indicator on Android can take a while to figure out your battery. It might drop 5 percent in ten minutes then take an hour to drop 5 more.
2. The vent area on my Shield seems warmer than the surrounding plastic even when in sleep for a while, so it may be drawing more power than is charging. Just try turning it off and charging it.
oushidian said:
1. Sometimes the battery indicator on Android can take a while to figure out your battery. It might drop 5 percent in ten minutes then take an hour to drop 5 more.
2. The vent area on my Shield seems warmer than the surrounding plastic even when in sleep for a while, so it may be drawing more power than is charging. Just try turning it off and charging it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which vent area? Front or back? Because batteries do warm up when you charge them, and those are some big batteries (and a full 2 amp charge)
agrabren said:
Which vent area? Front or back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The smooth part on the bottom back with the model number, FCC, etc. And it's not when I'm charging but when the lid is closed. If I manually power it down then the warm goes away.
i never recommend running your device down when it comes straight out the box. usually i tell people to just fully charge the device first before running it dry therefore it can register the full battery, personally i would not leave a device connected over night just for the simple fact that it can be one in a million that the device might get screwed over a long period of time.
it be nice to know if the problem is fixed or not and what you did just in case others run into this same problem.
ive had no charging issues yet. batts do tend to get nice and warm tho.
but for what its worth i just noticed that im still getting notification sounds from my Shield even tho the lid is closed. so maybe its some kind of hybrid sleep and if you have some rogue app pulling a ton of CPU cycles & its not going into full sleep so its taking longer to charge?
just some food for thought on your issue
s0me guy said:
ive had no charging issues yet. batts do tend to get nice and warm tho.
but for what its worth i just noticed that im still getting notification sounds from my Shield even tho the lid is closed. so maybe its some kind of hybrid sleep and if you have some rogue app pulling a ton of CPU cycles & its not going into full sleep so its taking longer to charge?
just some food for thought on your issue
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Like most Android devices, the device goes to "sleep". Unless you power it off, it still handles notifications, and it still talks on WiFi. But it should consume very little power.
elitecmdr666 said:
i never recommend running your device down when it comes straight out the box. usually i tell people to just fully charge the device first before running it dry therefore it can register the full battery, personally i would not leave a device connected over night just for the simple fact that it can be one in a million that the device might get screwed over a long period of time.
it be nice to know if the problem is fixed or not and what you did just in case others run into this same problem.
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Modern devices use LiPi or Li-ion batteries, these explode when overcharged (seriously, youtube search overcharge lipo). As a result all devices sold with this kind of battery have charge monitoring tools and will disconnect the battery from the charging circuit when full, also they should then run purely from the mains power when the battery is full rather than running on the battery again (they don't like the repeat connect/disconnect effect that would lead to). End result, can't overcharge it.
The heat on mains power tends to be from the voltage regulator. These devices don't run on 5V power like comes from the charger. They tend to use a combo of switch mode and linear regulators to drop the 5V to 3.3V for the CPU and peripherals (3.3 is most common at any rate). Linear regulators in particular get quite warm. Switch mode regulators don't get so warm but don't give a clean output the CPU will run nicely on, they have the odd drop or spike which would either reset or fry the CPU, so generally what happens is the switch mode reg drops a large chunk of the voltage and then feeds it into a linear reg to drop the rest of the way (*the less voltage a linear reg has to drop the less heat it produces). From 5V to 3.3V it is most likely going to be purely a linear regulator, with the CPU and screen drawing at least 1A of current and a 1.7V drop that would equate to 1.7W of heat produced, not much, but enough that if you were to put your finger on the bare regulator chip it would come away red, hold it there long enough and it would be somewhat like those competitions kids have over who can keep their hand on the hot radiator longest That is the main reason they will get hot.
The batteries in these devices are usually 3.7V, that would need a separate regulator from above, and another regulator would still be needed to go from 3.7 > 3.3. 3.7>3.3 would not get so warm. 5>3.7 would still be warm as above.
Never fully drain a LiPo. Gets too low and you damage the cell ir-repairably. When the device claims it is at 0% charge and shuts off is usually closer to 10-20% charge. But that is still considered too low by some people. General advice if you want to prolong the lifetime of your battery is to turn the device off and charge it when it reports somewhere around 5-10% charge.
Batteries do get warm while charging. But my bet is that the voltage regulators would be far more significant heat producers.
agrabren said:
Like most Android devices, the device goes to "sleep". Unless you power it off, it still handles notifications, and it still talks on WiFi. But it should consume very little power.
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good to know. :good: i didnt think closing the lid was the same as pushing the power button on my phone to turn the screen off.
but the OP's problems still might be "sleep" related.
prime example my SGS3 batt life started to tank after the 1st VZW JB update. it took twice as long to charge & would never "sleep" (cuz of the OS not a app) but since the Tegra 4 is a much higher profile chip it could suck a bit more juice if its not being aloud to fully sleep, for whatever reason.
like you said tho, looking at the battery stats could easily tell us if this is the issue.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Modern devices use LiPi or Li-ion batteries, these explode when overcharged (seriously, youtube search overcharge lipo). As a result all devices sold with this kind of battery have charge monitoring tools and will disconnect the battery from the charging circuit when full, also they should then run purely from the mains power when the battery is full rather than running on the battery again (they don't like the repeat connect/disconnect effect that would lead to). End result, can't overcharge it.
The heat on mains power tends to be from the voltage regulator. These devices don't run on 5V power like comes from the charger. They tend to use a combo of switch mode and linear regulators to drop the 5V to 3.3V for the CPU and peripherals (3.3 is most common at any rate). Linear regulators in particular get quite warm. Switch mode regulators don't get so warm but don't give a clean output the CPU will run nicely on, they have the odd drop or spike which would either reset or fry the CPU, so generally what happens is the switch mode reg drops a large chunk of the voltage and then feeds it into a linear reg to drop the rest of the way (*the less voltage a linear reg has to drop the less heat it produces). From 5V to 3.3V it is most likely going to be purely a linear regulator, with the CPU and screen drawing at least 1A of current and a 1.7V drop that would equate to 1.7W of heat produced, not much, but enough that if you were to put your finger on the bare regulator chip it would come away red, hold it there long enough and it would be somewhat like those competitions kids have over who can keep their hand on the hot radiator longest That is the main reason they will get hot.
The batteries in these devices are usually 3.7V, that would need a separate regulator from above, and another regulator would still be needed to go from 3.7 > 3.3. 3.7>3.3 would not get so warm. 5>3.7 would still be warm as above.
Never fully drain a LiPo. Gets too low and you damage the cell ir-repairably. When the device claims it is at 0% charge and shuts off is usually closer to 10-20% charge. But that is still considered too low by some people. General advice if you want to prolong the lifetime of your battery is to turn the device off and charge it when it reports somewhere around 5-10% charge.
Batteries do get warm while charging. But my bet is that the voltage regulators would be far more significant heat producers.
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yes while all this your saying is true i still wont risk it. i say this from experience had a note 10.1 and would leave it over night charging and sure enough it ended up screwing up. might of been there was something wrong with the device itself but still. good post on your behalf though :laugh:
but still im paranoid and prefer to just disconnect once its charge it wont hurt
elitecmdr666 said:
yes while all this your saying is true i still wont risk it. i say this from experience had a note 10.1 and would leave it over night charging and sure enough it ended up screwing up. might of been there was something wrong with the device itself but still. good post on your behalf though :laugh:
but still im paranoid and prefer to just disconnect once its charge it wont hurt
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Click to collapse
I tend to go into way too much detail sometimes :/
Disconnecting can't harm it at least if that's what you prefer.
As for info source. Quite into electronics and robotics, intact the shield would make a good controller for robotics purposes
well i did my second charge last night. and this time much faster, about 5 hours to 100 percent. guess i dont have a problem after all. dont know what happen the first time.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I tend to go into way too much detail sometimes :/
Disconnecting can't harm it at least if that's what you prefer.
As for info source. Quite into electronics and robotics, intact the shield would make a good controller for robotics purposes
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no worries lol i tend to get spaced out at times and go into details does not hurt to enlighten people :good:
Nothing on this came up for the note 10.1 specifically. I use an 8013 with Gnabo v8 KitKat installed.
When my N8013 reaches full charge, I get a message telling me to unplug it. Why ? (Is this just a stupid message or is there really a reason?)
If I am not going to be using the tablet, are there any differences (in battery life, recharge numbers, etc)
caused by keeping the charger on or not?
I have seen many opinions on L-I batteries in general, but nothing specific to the SAMSUNG charger and note 10.1 (2012).
I am looking for something beyond "I do this" or "I believe."
Anybody out there have some tech knowledge on this ??
Many thanks.
I know on my 8013 with the old bootloader and Kit Kat it will not charge powered off and often acts funny while charging anyway. I personally cycle my batteries on all devices from full to empty and have not had any battery replacement problems..
the last time I attempted to leave one plugged in all the time was a cheaper phone a couple of years ago and the battery swelled up and almost exploded. Besides the normal dangers of just having a plug in hanging out of your device all the time could wear out your socket. I like my device too much to leave it plugged in all the time and take a risk. & I do believe it would be a risk IMO.
now I use a kernel and it allows modification of charging amperage and that may help to lower that for constant plugin and I would feel safe when I have my tablet in my vehicle and plugged in to a low or trickle charger on a mount and leaving it constant. But personally under normal use and not dash mounted I would never consider leaving it plugged in constant. You should try it and report back any hardware damages jk. I have not read of any..
and you're just asking besides like the common sense things ?like saving energy ?, or reduceing heat passing through your charger and device, because of constant electricity flow, remember the more heat you are causing in piece of equipment the more damage and wear and less overall time you get out of that device whether it be a charger, battery, circuit board etc.
jimyv said:
I know on my 8013 with the old bootloader and Kit Kat it will not charge powered off (mine charges) and often acts funny while charging anyway. I personally cycle my batteries on all devices from full to empty and have not had any battery replacement problems..
the last time I attempted to leave one plugged in all the time was a cheaper phone a couple of years ago and the battery swelled up and almost exploded. Besides the normal dangers of just having a plug in hanging out of your device all the time could wear out your socket. I like my device too much to leave it plugged in all the time and take a risk. & I do believe it would be a risk IMO. (Does the oem charger have overcharge protection? Will the 8013 stop charging when 100% - these are the big questions.)
now I use a kernel and it allows modification of charging amperage and that may help to lower that for constant plugin and I would feel safe when I have my tablet in my vehicle and plugged in to a low or trickle charger on a mount and leaving it constant. But personally under normal use and not dash mounted I would never consider leaving it plugged in constant. You should try it and report back any hardware damages jk. I have not read of any..
and you're just asking besides like the common sense things ?like saving energy ? (If it stops charging on full charge - there is no energy waste), or reduceing heat passing through your charger and device, because of constant electricity flow, remember the more heat you are causing in piece of equipment the more damage and wear and less overall time you get out of that device whether it be a charger, battery, circuit board etc.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for opinion.
mangurian said:
Thanks for opinion.
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well of course they are designed to stop charging when they are 100%. the real question is how far down will it allows to discharge before it starts charging again? My experience is almost none ...you'll never see it leave a hundred percent. so basically you're charging all the time and cycling the charger unit . you have also modified your device and even unmodified ones there are no guarantees such as life. And anything plugged into a plugin is using some amount of current. And I have burned up several chargers through many devices by leaving them plugged in to the devices for extended periods of time while in use.I can say for certain leaving them plugged in constantly you are going to be buying chargers at the very minimum.
for me if Samsung is asking me to do this it is because they have it designed into their product for longevity reasons. They have millions upon millions of hours invested into wear dating these products used in a specific manner Who am I to try to reengineer the wheel. to me it's not even an arguable discussion do what's your opinion wishes you to do. Again I'm sure they know more than you..about what's best for their devices. For if longevity only.
I'm sure if you needed a detailed analysis of what's going on with your hardware when you're plugged in maybe Samsung technical hotline could be assistance to you. Seems to be more of a hardware engineer question to me..imo
of course with root privileges you can pretty much set up any charge schedule you would like to do as far as when to begin charging when to shut off charging screen off screen on etc and how much amperage you wished to consistently charge..
so basically if you are going to use the device against the design. (portable) then you should probably set up your own charging parameters and behaviors. To extend your device life. For example when I have mine in dock position in my vehicle .it is set to only charge 1 amp from charger key on power only and screen on while charging . And this allows my device to cycle on the battery when vehicle is not running. Reduces heat in my unit. and does not burn up my chargers
As we all know android head unit is slow to boot when it is shutdown (cold boot). But is reasonably fast when it is just waking up from sleep (ignition turned off less than a set time and turned back on).
So, I was wondering if anyone tried keeping head unit from going complete shutdown and keep in sleep mode while ignition is off.
How much current draw did it have in sleep mode? Any negative effect?
It would be the best if I head measured current draw before hooking up the radio, but I did not think about that at the time. I don't want to cut the wire again if I don't have to (meaning someone else has measured already. )
I didn't measure it myself but yesterday I read a post regarding the power consumption while on, sleeping and off. It was 1.2A (~14-15W) while sleeping which is ****ing ridiculous imho but could be the explanation why there isn't an option to keep the device sleeping longer than 2 hours. Given that consumption while sleeping, your battery would be probably dead in less than 3 days of standby time.
Streetking21 said:
I didn't measure it myself but yesterday I read a post regarding the power consumption while on, sleeping and off. It was 1.2A (~14-15W) while sleeping which is ****ing ridiculous imho but could be the explanation why there isn't an option to keep the device sleeping longer than 2 hours. Given that consumption while sleeping, your battery would be probably dead in less than 3 days of standby time.
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Wow. That is pretty high. Hardly in a sleep state.
Streetking21 said:
I didn't measure it myself but yesterday I read a post regarding the power consumption while on, sleeping and off. It was 1.2A (~14-15W) while sleeping which is ****ing ridiculous imho but could be the explanation why there isn't an option to keep the device sleeping longer than 2 hours. Given that consumption while sleeping, your battery would be probably dead in less than 3 days of standby time.
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Surely not?
morgish said:
Surely not?
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What?
Streetking21 said:
I didn't measure it myself but yesterday I read a post regarding the power consumption while on, sleeping and off. It was 1.2A (~14-15W) while sleeping which is ****ing ridiculous imho but could be the explanation why there isn't an option to keep the device sleeping longer than 2 hours. Given that consumption while sleeping, your battery would be probably dead in less than 3 days of standby time.
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Click to collapse
Attribute that to "made in china". With just a little bit more thought, they could have designed the MCU board to shut down completely while putting the CPU into deep sleep, and end up with a sleep/standby mode that consumes negligible power.
I.e., it shouldn't use any more power than a half-decent TABLET does in sleep mode with the wifi turned off. My Nexus 9 will standby for a couple of MONTHS like that, and its battery is a very small fraction of a car battery.
Streetking21 said:
What?
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Sorry, that was pretty vague of me. 1.2amp, 15watt is crazy for sleep mode!
I did measure the power consumption in sleep mode before I installed my Joying in my car.
Result: 350-450 mA
realzoulou said:
I did measure the power consumption in sleep mode before I installed my Joying in my car.
Result: 350-450 mA
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Click to collapse
That sounds more reasonable, although that still a bit high for leaving car parked for few days.
Extending shutoff time to 24 hours maybe ok. Don't know how yet, but it should be possible.
realzoulou said:
I did measure the power consumption in sleep mode before I installed my Joying in my car.
Result: 350-450 mA
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the info.
---
I wouldn't feel comfortable with a sleep time of 24h+. Lets say its 400mA and you use your car on a daily basis. Thats 24h*400mA = 9.6Ah. I am not an expert when it comes to car batteries but I read somewhere that if the battery capacity drops lower than 50 or 60% the starter has a hard time, especially with the colder temperatures ahead (at least here). And you have to consider that the older the battery the less capacity. I wouldn't test it out myself but I would be very interested in someone doing it nonetheless
realzoulou said:
I did measure the power consumption in sleep mode before I installed my Joying in my car.
Result: 350-450 mA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
500mA is a little high to left in that state for a long period of time. 500mA is the current that drain one car lamp of 5W, like the ones on the rear, the tiny ones on the front, or the ones used in the passenger compartment. With a good battery there should be no problem for letting it in that state for a day or so, but for an old battery this could dry your battery in a few hours.
However, i agree with the fact that the time for going to shutdown should be user selectable.
i was thinking of the same thing, now i am completely ignorant of the electornics side of it, but isnt this something the devs here can take on to fix from the software side of things, i.e keeping only the CPU in deepsleep and shutting everything else down?
It's necessary to keep in mind that these HUs are not like tablets. These HUs has more electronic inside of them: MCU, sound ampliffier and, surely, some more electronics. All of them drain current, and not all of them are capable of getting in a low power mode like CPUs do.
---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------
Hi! I think I've found the solution!
In my HU, Erisin 3015V, I go to settings and just below "GPS" option, there is another option that says "Extension configuration" (Or something like this, just because my unit is in what chinese people think is spanish...) and into this option there are three ones, the first of them says something like "Delay when acc is shutdown", and this option has several values. The first time was selected 30seconds, and the HU Always made a cold boot. Then I adjusted it to the max, 2 hours, and now the unit has warm booted after more than 1 hour of beeing slept.
Try you and update, please... I think that 2 hours is enough for most situations.
in which way is this a solution?
2 hours is the current maximum for all headunits I know and it is not a secret or hidden option, but this thread is about keeping the unit in sleep mode for a longer period of time than the 2 hours. (no offense)
Oh! Ok. Sorry. I was mistaken
prolly not much of a problem for me in. 08 duramax with dual deep cycle batteries.
on another thought, you people with standard cars with standard starting batteries... you COULD install a second battery. a deep cycle battery. run HU off it. isolate it from charging system while vehicle is off. automatically reconnect to charging system with a relay of some sort when vehicle is on. this way you NEVER stand the chance to drain your starting battery. and as its a deep cycle, draining it down empty doesnt damage it unlike starting batteries. i wouldnt even worry about it anyway because it would prolly take like 12 months to drain a decent deep cycle down. lol
hurtgen said:
i wouldnt even worry about it anyway because it would prolly take like 12 months to drain a decent deep cycle down. lol
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whats the math behind this calculation?
12 months = 365 days = 8,760 hours
8,760h x 0.4A (consumption of the head unit while in sleep mode) = 3,504 Ah
Show me that car battery and I will give you a cookie
Thought of the second battery myself. In general, I think thats a viable option but there are some downsides as well. The generator has to be very powerful to load two batteries at once or you even have to add additional relays to prioritize the main/starter battery. Of course that problem depends on wether your primary trip range is short or long. This should work if you are driving on a daily basis or at least every second day for 30-40 minutes I guess.
Lets say you install a deep cycle battery with 80Ah and it is fully charged, the theoretical standby time is a bit more than a week (ofc that could be enough for some people):
80Ah / 0.4A = 200h = 8.3 days (just the theory)
As I dont know much about deep cycle batteries I will cite from wikipedia:
A deep-cycle battery is designed to discharge between 45% and 75% of its capacity, depending on the manufacturer and the construction of the battery. Although these batteries can be cycled down to 20% charge, the best lifespan vs cost method is to keep the average cycle at about 45% discharge
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Long story short, you wont get 8.3 days from a 80Ah deep cycle battery. If you are fine with the reduced life span, its around 160 hours (6.6 days) and if you follow the manufacturers recommendation you will probably get around 4-5 days.
I am not trying to work against you here, but I dont know if thats really worth the trouble (costs & installation). Thank you for your input anyway.
Hmm. My truck runs dual AC Delco 48PG's. It appears each are 70 amp hour.
Here's a couple other options that come to mind.
1. Most viable and affordable in my opinion. Wire up an easy attach Battery Tender. I have this set up on my motorcycle. When I roll in to the garage after a ride, I mismount, attach battery tender, and my small motorcycle battery receives a small trickle charge until next time I ride. Also, do Not use the cheap battery chargers. Spend the extra 10 bucks and get a smart charger. This thing works awesome! I pull all my batteries from vehicles not used during winter and bring them in to the house and have BT on them. If your unfamiliar with these, definitely check it out.
2. Perhaps some sort of small and efficient solar panel that can not only keep up with HU discharge, but enough to also overcome parasitic waste from all other systems as well? Not sure if this is viable. I don't know anything about solar panels. Just throwing it out there
The only issue I have with the battery tender option is... what happens when the user forgets to unplug it before driving off? Other than that it's not a bad idea. There definitely needs to be some thought put into low power modes. I used to hotwire my HU's so that I didn't have to listen to the key-minder on my older vehicles. Difference is that those non-advanced HU's had a real "off" mode even with the ACC wire hot all the time.
The solar panel option would work well for those that park outside and have decent sunlight during the day.
Hi Sorry for my english.
I have a problem.
My head unit often doesn't shutdown after suspend mode.
Maybe 50â„… times works correctly.
Another 50â„… i switch off engine, radio goes in suspend mode ( Black screen and not respond pressing button) but if i switch on engine after the suspend time ( i set 30second but it is so also 20 minutes) the head unit is already on homescreen without reload the s.o.
Inviato dal mio MI 5s Plus utilizzando Tapatalk