Hello Google Android world, please welcome this shameful WinMo apostate into your ranks right away because I'm honestly a good guy who wants to start helping you all buy more batteries smartly as, when it comes to capacity claims of everyone other than HTC that I know of so far, you are in a sea of lies and gross exaggerations. I know this from publicly testing ten batteries for the HTC Touch Pro2/Rhodium/Tilt 2, batteries from the same factories that stamped out many of the third party batteries being sold for the N1, including batteries made by Mugen and Seidio.
As of now for the N1 I have tested the OEM which is rated at 1400mAh, two Seidios and an oversized Cameron Sino. At a 250mA current over a discharge from the phone's charging cutoff down to the phone shutdown cutoff (~4.14V and 3.5V respectively), the OEM clocked in at 1357mAh, or 97% of its claimed capacity. That is the best claimed versus actual figure I've seen so far (update: except for a new TP2 2150mAh), though on par with the Touch Pro2's OEMs which I tested, also in the mid 90s. So I say hello a little short on information, inviting any of you who want to help find the truth to let me borrow your batteries to test after which, as I've been doing with the TP2 crowd, I would fedex them right back. Also the information I can bring to the table you can use to get an idea of what to expect from their N1 counterparts.
How this works:
I am using the Computerized Battery Analyzer III. The software which is somewhat sophisticated plots out milliamp hours (mAh) burnt over the descent of voltage from 4.14V to 3.5V, the level of voltage in the batteries at which point the HTC/Google Nexus One and the Touch Pro2s decide to stop charging itself and decide it's time to turn themselves off because they're too low on juice. The CBA software plots out data in graphs, PDFs, CSVs, the whole deal. I hook the batteries up to the CBA which is plugged into my computer. With the software that came with the CBA I have the CBA test the batteries at 250mA, a current in the neighborhood of what the average user would average were he to do his thing (including having push-mail fired up with the screen on bright, downloading and browsing rss feeds, the occasional call, the occasional call being recorded etc) without interruption. Looks a little like this:
I'm not Colombo out to get the third party guys that exaggerate their numbers a little bit nor am I here to rewrite Wikipedia's take on capacity calculation industry standards. You know what? Scratch that, I'm starting to hate these guys, lying and overcharging way too much. If you're a manufacturer or a battery company sympathizer and want to break my balls about voltage cutoffs, read this simple explanation which I feel sums up our position well.
Tl;dr? This is to supply you with information that will help you choose which battery to buy. And to hurt the crooks.
Doug Simmons
Test results and other info.
This table is a hotlinked image to data on the mother site of this, batteryboss.org on which the actual links work. Hit refresh if you've been here before in case your browser cached the image.
Updates:
August 7th: After doing a dry run I ran the AMZER 1800mAh for the EVO. So far it's in first place for being the biggest ripoff on the gallon. First place.
August 5th: Received Carl's AMZER 1800mAh for EVO, doing a dry run discharge now, hopefully get some data for you tomorrow morning.
July 28th: Finished Carl's Seidio 3500mAh for EVO 4G.
July 6th: Completed round one of EVO stock (John Doward). Got the coveted Amzer 1800 and a Seidio 3500, both EVO, en route thanks to Carl Willi.
June 12th: Completed first run of a Mugen 3200mAh for the Hero. Both disappointing and unsurprising. Most cost ineffective battery I've tested.
June 11th: Jasper and Dan's batteries on the way back to them. Thanks again. Hey, Mugen 3200 for Hero and EVO 4G stock on their way! Hey, just got the Mugen. Charging.
June 10th: Completed testing for a no name Hero battery and the stock Incredible battery with the EVO 4G stock on its way. Nice. Returning those batteries to my man Dan and my other man Jasper. Hey, anyone wanna send me that Amzer 1800 for the EVO? Please?
June 7th: Just ran test number one of a no name oversized Hero battery. Underwhelming. Almost done with second test.
April 26th: Ran the Seidio 1600 again after deep cycling a bit (got worse). Got some press!
April 16th: Mailed back Wade his oem 2150 yesterday, today will mail Sean's bad Mugen back to Mugen so he can finally get a damn refund, also mailing back Roto his Cameron Sino 2400 as the testing's done. Currently experimenting with a high then low (repeat 3x) current thing with Roto's Seidio 1600 to see if it produces a more flattering result (his idea). Much obliged fellas.
April 15th: Latest test of a Touch Pro2 HTC/OEM 2150mAh scored 2150mAh on the frickin' dot! Not an N1 battery but just goes to show that if you don't like being lied to, go OEM. Finish oversized Cameron Sino.
April 14th: Was going to have another run of the 1600 ready for you but the god damned windows update forced a reboot last night. Argh. Anyway, just got a Touch Pro2 2150 HTC/OEM battery. Though it's not for our phone, it's worth knowing whether or not HTC can maintain its batting average for its oversized batteries so this will yield important information for you folks. Friggin' windows updates. What the hell is that, Microsoft, forcing reboots? Oh, easily disabled if you hit start > run > blahblah.msc > whatever > whatever? FU MS. /rant
April 13th: Finished first run of the Cameron Sino 2400mAh, weighing in at 2025mAh. Nothing to write home about in terms of a company not exaggerating about their capacity but hey, that's a pretty good price. Unlike the oversized Seidio 3200 this one does come with a back door whereas Seidio is too cool to hook you up with that.
April 12th: Rotohammer's Seidio 1600mAh has arrived, charging. First run of Seidio 1600 an unsurprising disappointment. A Cameron Sino 2400mAh also arrived (thanks Roto) and is just about fully charged for its first run.
April 9th: In a continued effort to outdo himself Rotohammer just ordered a 2400mAh-rated Cameron Sino, on its way to me. Lucky I got his attention. Extremely helpful. Thanks.
April 8th: N1 Seidio 1600mAh should show up today, thanks to Rotohammer.
April 3rd: Finished Seidio 3200mAh, five runs. Learned that it's rated slightly more honestly than Mugen but is the most expensive battery per tested amp hour. Still, highest capacity. I got a new and fast and really badass server and now have a our own forum which you can fire up at forum.batteryboss.org. Finished the new Andida for the TP2, pretty weak, but for some of you the price may be right.
March 30th: Completed dry run of a Seidio 3200mAh. Need to test it at least two more times for conditioning and accuracy but Seidio is now in the lead against Mugen in terms of not lying so much about their claimed capacity. Good job, Seidio.
March 29th: Mugen engineers respond (see table). Rotohammer's Seidio arrived, charging now baby, yeah! Should be very interesting.
March 27th: Rotohammer's sponsoring a test of a Seidio 3200mAh, battery en route. Thanks.
March 20th: Just ran the first test of the Nexus One's OEM, not bad.
March 18th: Just ordered a Google Nexus One. I got an extra battery so the first thing I'm using this for is to prepare a battery for testing. Need to figure out if it has different voltage cutoffs, need to figure out how to present the data and what to do with my site, .. hmmm.
Copypasta from TP2 thread:
March 16th: Mugen wants me to send me another battery to test, I agreed and mailed them back Jeremy's battery. Also mailed Sean/Telek his OEM 1500mAh. Thank you both fellas. Also DeathmonkeyGTX offered to sponsor a test of the HTC 2150mAh -- thank you!
March 13th: Finished no name #2 3600mAh (2466mAh ). In search of voltage cutoffs for Touch Pro/Fuze, please help.
March 12th: Mugen has expressed interest in sending me another battery to test, I expressed willingness. And to you I express curiosity into which device to expand the testing.
March 8th:Finished round two of no name #2 and fake OEM #2. Waiting on another ebay OEM to verify authenticity and a fresh Andida courtesy of my main man Shawn Martell.
March 7th:Added intriguing head to head chart matches.
March 6th:Completed a few more including fresh standard legit OEM, also discovered two counterfeits.
March 2nd: Completed no name #1, cheapest per mAh so far. Dropped Jason's battery off in the mail as promised.
Feb 28th: Completed tests of the Seidio, mailing it to jasonweaver.
Feb 27th: Just received Seidio 1750mAh from jasonweaver in addition to 1500mAh no name ebay cheapo. Nice.
Feb 27th: Mugen 1800mAh testing completed, table updated. Thank you very much jcr916 who bought the battery and had it shipped to me, now I'm going to mail it to him.
Feb 22nd: Thank you jasonweaver and jcr916 who are hooking me up with a barely-used Seidio and a brand new Mugen 1800mAh respectively. Those test results should be interesting as from what I've gathered those two brands have the best reputation and are priced accordingly so let's see if they deserve it.
Telek and I just laid down some dough for five more batteries this weekend. So I'll have a lot of testing to do shortly. Stay tuned for the results!
Testing hardware:
I am using the West Mountain Radio CBA III (Computerized Battery Analyzer) which you can buy along with some toys from these guys for $149. I bought something else from them, didn't like it and they offered to shave the cost of the thing I didn't want off the price of the CBA III without even asking me to return it. Good people. The CBA III is the most accurate and reliable device we could find for these testing purposes and we spent many hours arriving at the final testing procedure. No corners cut. There is no indication whatsoever that the results it's produced are inaccurate, certainly not relative to each other given its consistency. All testing procedures were identical including the current of 250mA, starting voltage and bottom cutoff (4.14V and 3.5V respectively, the top and bottom cutoffs of the Touch Pro2, which I use to charge the batteries with original HTC wall charger). The 250mA current may be a little high and won't produce as flattering a result versus a 100mA current, but it's both a normal current we burn when we're doing stuff on the phone, it keeps each of the three tests inside six hours usually and most importantly we use that current on every single test of every single battery so this is a standardized test. Finally the OEMs get 95% of their claimed rating on this current so we believe that that current is the sweet spot to supply you with information to use to buy your next battery.
Doug Simmons
Want to help?
First I'd like to thank Sean Graham, Jeremey Riley, Jason Weaver, Shawn Martell and Wade Woosley who've decided to do the following for me with TP2 batteries:
The next time you decide to buy a battery, hit me with a PM first so that I can give you my address. Have the battery shipped to me, I'll test the sucker then I'll hit up FedEx and get it to you asap. I have to test the battery at least three times for posterity so give me three or so days to shoot it over to you. I'll write a bit about how grateful I am you decided to help this project, yada yada, and we'll all be happier as a result. This is very valuable information and I know the batteries are also valuable to you so just borrowing your brand new battery for a little while, I realize, is a tall order. But that's a great way to help everyone out without spending a dime. I'll cover the postage to get it to you, I'm not asking for donations, I just want to run the damn tests.
Already have a third party battery but want me to test it anyway? Yes please, I am still interested in used batteries, including used OEMs to get an idea of longevity.
So once I survey the scene for shopping links I'll use this third post to list the batteries on my Christmas list.
Interesting post. Keep it up, love the idea behind this. Is it possible for you to determine how long before the n1 battery goes below 60% of its capacity by chance? and is there anyway to best optimize them for longer life?
This is a great reference. thanks
Do you think you can use your machinery to test the difference between two OEM batteries, running different kernels? For example this Undervolted kernel by Kmobs, a lot of people would be interested in seeing hard stats in the difference in battery useage over the stock kernel.
tips
ram130 said:
Interesting post. Keep it up, love the idea behind this. Is it possible for you to determine how long before the n1 battery goes below 60% of its capacity by chance? and is there anyway to best optimize them for longer life?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! As I said I am brand new to Android so I can't tell you what software to use on the phone, including roms and screen brightness managers, to make a single charge go another few miles. I can however, and this may have been what you were asking, tell you that the more you use the battery at lower charges, like below 30%, the faster you'll eventually wear it out. So the more you charge the better. Another thing I can tell you is that the hotter the battery runs the sooner you'll kill its longevity. So heavy things like tethering and youtube for extended periods will lead you to having to buy another battery significantly quicker than if you ran up your miles (milliamp hours) on lower currents. For individual discharges, one thing you may not know is that when the phone is on 3G and you're getting a weak signal or the phone, in GSM world, is on 3G but can only find itself an edge tower, the phone beefs up its transmitting power a lot. If you don't need 3G, especially if you're in a rural area where your signal isn't always strong or you're not getting any 3G (or in an unlucky corner of your office), maybe flip off 3G. I don't know if there's a setting for this on Android like there is on WinBlow but keep your wifi power setting on the lowest unless you know its affecting your wifi negatively too much.
Whenever you've got a data connection open, you're losing a lot more juice. So if you care more about your charge lasting than you do about constant immediate emailing, really frequent RSS updates and so on, go easy on the frequency so that you're using data only when necessary. If you go that route, remember to change all your synced stuff accordingly otherwise it won't help much if you switch your Gmail cycling down to a half hour but forget to turn your Facebook syncing off immediate.
There may be something like this for Android and if there is someone please mention it, but for WinMo, WMLongLife by Chainfire, author of WMWifiRouter, is a radio management program that very smartly decides when to ramp up and down to and from 3G and when to kill the data connection. If something like that does not exist and you're a programmer, check the thread for inspiration. Great if you want to save juice without devoting your life to toggling 3G all the time yourself.
Back to heavy use, if you do have a spare battery, I would advise designating one of them with a sharpie to be the battery you use during periods of your life, like watching videos on a long flight or running GPS software (especially Navigation since it uses not only a lot of processor and does the GPS math but it also uses data) when on road trips, even and especially if you've plugged it in to your cigarette lighter, go with the designated batter for those purposes, that way you can preserve one good battery to make it through a long day of work with no problem without much degradation. Your other battery will wear out faster of course, so for that consider a cheapo no name which, once I get my hands on some cheapo no names, you can buy wisely from information I give you. Don't trust their information, their ratings have no bearing on reality whatsoever. I'll give you actionable data as soon as I can test them.
Third party standalone chargers = BAD idea. Odds are, and certainly if the charger has two pins instead of four, that it gives a constant current charge unlike the OEM which goes hard when it's safe (when the battery's got empty room and is not hot) and then scales back when it senses that it needs to. That means the OEM charger that came with your phone or your phone itself when you plug in another source whether it's the wall charger or USB, or a standalone if you find one that's definitely HTC. The constant current chargers give a weaker charge than it could during most of the charge and then too strong a charge during the final clip. So that way, even though it may fill the tank up all the way, it takes longer to charge and it will hurt your battery's longevity. By how much? Can't tell you, but because of the threat of one of these dinko chargers not even having something to detect the cutoff voltage, ... bad idea, don't trust them unless you're using it on a $6 cheapo.
liam.lah said:
This is a great reference. thanks
Do you think you can use your machinery to test the difference between two OEM batteries, running different kernels? For example this Undervolted kernel by Kmobs, a lot of people would be interested in seeing hard stats in the difference in battery useage over the stock kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And thank you.
When I test batteries with this thing, I charge the battery and hook it up to the tester, not the tester into the phone to see what's doing with the battery as its being used by the phone. So I'm not testing to see how much different software, whether it's a strobe light program, HTC Sense, a custom rom or an underclocking mod, let you get the same happy phone experience while putting a lighter load on the battery. Rather I hook the thing up and tell the tester what load to put onto the battery (I use 250mA) and collect the data in the exact same way as I do for every battery I test. I'm brand new to Android and, though I'm loving it, I haven't even tried to root it yet, let alone experiment with different kernels.
From my experience with WinMo custom roms, I have never found a custom rom that had more battery drain than it would to its stock counterpart -- if that counterpart was running similar things like Sense instead of the old TouchFlo. I imagine your chefs or whatever you call them are pretty competent when it comes to making battery tweaks and trade-off decisions, however some roms will likely burn more rubber in order to deliver you more eye candy. In my old world there are barebones roms that have everything stripped down just to the point where the thing can boot, thereby delivering the best speed, most free ram, program stability and battery performance. Were I to flash one of your custom roms, once I got over my eye-candy phase at least and prioritized battery performance, I'd go for the new kernels with the least frills and install the frills myself as needed.
So I got my N1 last Friday and was immediately addicted, wailing on the thing, wishing I had immediately gone Android the moment it was first released instead of trying to run messy ported on my WinMo phone which is now collecting dust. That phone, parenthetically, takes a 1500mAh battery whereas the N1 takes 1400mAh. In spite of that, and in spite of the N1 having a larger screen, crazy fast processor and just being much more badass in general, lasts significantly longer than the WinMo phone on a single charge. Both are HTC phones so, unless the screen technology is really a whole lot different, to account for that I can only account for it with superior software. It's been so good to the point that I have been unsure that this project would get much attention from you folks than it's been getting from the WinMo crowd as they may be much more starved for battery information than you.
I love this thing.
If any of you have more advice than that please dump it here.
Doug
Mugen
I'm not surprised by the issue with The Mugen Power battery. I've had problems with them in the past.
See:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2097942&postcount=47
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2104774&postcount=50
I prefer to see a test done on a customers battery, not hand selected units from the manufacturer.
d0ugie said:
So I got my N1 last Friday and was immediately addicted, wailing on the thing, wishing I had immediately gone Android the moment it was first released instead of trying to run messy ported on my WinMo phone which is now collecting dust.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I felt the same way! And since I've been a Linux user for 15 years, It feels sooo good to be fully Microsoft free!
Damnit damnit, Mugen asked me to test another in case the one they sent was defective, asking that I mail it to them first, and I went ahead and mailed it to them, figuring I had enough data, and this not occurring to me. I didn't send back the counterfeits because I wanted to hang onto evidence for who knows what but it never occurred to me that whoever cooked up their batteries might have actually labeled them with different ratings. That is absolutely stunning. At least we've got the picture you took. Ouch man, that would really have pissed me off if I had bought a battery from a company I thought was reputable and saw that -- on top of the suspiciously underwhelming performance that led me to dissect it.
Still haven't received anything from Mugen, going to follow up with them. Also just let the guy know who bought that battery for me to test to get in on your discovery to find out how he wants to handle this, assuming they send me another. Other than saying they would I don't know why they'd bother.
Thanks for that, huge help, though also a huge disappointment.
dude! I love this thread I've always been careful when it comes to batteries, bought the nexus seidio 2800 mah battery and I can say there is no way I'm getting double life that they claim.
That should be the next battery to test out even though they only have the 3200 mah one now.
-Charlie
Let Mugen do the right thing and replace an under performing unit. If they want to play games, I'll have 10 people each buy a Mugen battery, I'll send them to you for testing, then open each of them up on video. If they try to deceive me, I'll setup a website dedicated to exposing any fraud.
Rule: Never piss off a geek with resources to prove a point.
d0ugie said:
Thanks! As I said I am brand new to Android so I can't tell you what software to use on the phone, including roms and screen brightness managers, to make a single charge go another few miles. I can however, and this may have been what you were asking, tell you that the more you use the battery at lower charges, like below 30%, the faster you'll eventually wear it out. So the more you charge the better. Another thing I can tell you is that the hotter the battery runs the sooner you'll kill its longevity. So heavy things like tethering and youtube for extended periods will lead you to having to buy another battery significantly quicker than if you ran up your miles (milliamp hours) on lower currents. For individual discharges, one thing you may not know is that when the phone is on 3G and you're getting a weak signal or the phone, in GSM world, is on 3G but can only find itself an edge tower, the phone beefs up its transmitting power a lot. If you don't need 3G, especially if you're in a rural area where your signal isn't always strong or you're not getting any 3G (or in an unlucky corner of your office), maybe flip off 3G. I don't know if there's a setting for this on Android like there is on WinBlow but keep your wifi power setting on the lowest unless you know its affecting your wifi negatively too much.
Whenever you've got a data connection open, you're losing a lot more juice. So if you care more about your charge lasting than you do about constant immediate emailing, really frequent RSS updates and so on, go easy on the frequency so that you're using data only when necessary. If you go that route, remember to change all your synced stuff accordingly otherwise it won't help much if you switch your Gmail cycling down to a half hour but forget to turn your Facebook syncing off immediate.
There may be something like this for Android and if there is someone please mention it, but for WinMo, WMLongLife by Chainfire, author of WMWifiRouter, is a radio management program that very smartly decides when to ramp up and down to and from 3G and when to kill the data connection. If something like that does not exist and you're a programmer, check the thread for inspiration. Great if you want to save juice without devoting your life to toggling 3G all the time yourself.
----------------
Doug
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Click to collapse
Thank you so much for your post. I am truely learning alot from you and thank you for the advice. I will be sure to follow them trust me. I got two questions though, do you think its best to charge your phone off or on? Also my battery was at 15% while on a call then I plugged in. After about 10min I hang up and now its charging while on, its been 12min and so for its at a whopping 106* F, really hot..is that normal? I know heat is bad, but I can't do anything to fix it.
d0ugie said:
Third party standalone chargers = BAD idea. Odds are, and certainly if the charger has two pins instead of four, that it gives a constant current charge unlike the OEM which goes hard when it's safe (when the battery's got empty room and is not hot) and then scales back when it senses that it needs to. That means the OEM charger that came with your phone or your phone itself when you plug in another source whether it's the wall charger or USB, or a standalone if you find one that's definitely HTC. The constant current chargers give a weaker charge than it could during most of the charge and then too strong a charge during the final clip. So that way, even though it may fill the tank up all the way, it takes longer to charge and it will hurt your battery's longevity. By how much? Can't tell you, but because of the threat of one of these dinko chargers not even having something to detect the cutoff voltage, ... bad idea, don't trust them unless you're using it on a $6 cheapo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean standalone? i bought a motorola phone charger because the US pins don't fit here, i did notice the output is lower, so i expect long charge time. Is that still going to have the same problem not throttling it down at the end.
I suppose my best bet is a pair of pliers to bend the htc charger pins to fit in our wall sockets.
Also, in regards to heavy, for example navigation+ music in a car. Does having it plugged in to power help with that? what happens when it is simultaneously charging and discharging? I also suppse a good tip is to place the mount in front of an air-conditioning vent too, if it is a warm day, the phone will get super hot in minutes, but if you are air con-ing, it will stay cool.
ram130 said:
Thank you so much for your post. I am truely learning alot from you and thank you for the advice. I will be sure to follow them trust me. I got two questions though, do you think its best to charge your phone off or on? Also my battery was at 15% while on a call then I plugged in. After about 10min I hang up and now its charging while on, its been 12min and so for its at a whopping 106* F, really hot..is that normal? I know heat is bad, but I can't do anything to fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charging the battery and using the battery both create heat. That said, the total heat you'd get from charging during casual use of the battery should not be great enough to warrant the nuisance of not being able to keep your phone on until you finish charging it each time. But 106F (41 Celsius) is indeed whopping hot and, according to not necessarily precise software tests I did on other HTC devices, that is the neighborhood of heat at which the phone eases back the charging current to the point where the phone may either charge at a current about even with what your phone is burning, leaving it without any net gain while running at too hot a temperature for the health of your battery or it will begin to drop the charging current toward zero so that your phone is discharging, waiting until the temperature simmers down until it turns the juice back up.
But what the hell is causing this if you didn't have things like wifi and GPS and streaming video going while talking to someone on your earpiece at the same time? Could be a runaway process, something whacky with something software related, something wrong with the battery, something wrong with the phone or something messed up with the charger. Since you plugged the phone in and didn't use a separate third party charger into which you plop the battery to charge, since the phone was involved, it's probably not the charger. My first guess would be something sketchy software-wise. The first thing I'd do is go into Settings > About phone > Battery use and seeing if anything looks crazy when it lists what software or functions are accounting for how much of the drain relative to each other. If something is burning juice harder than the screen, the good news is is that it might not be a hardware issue, might be something that could be solved with a soft reset. Could just have been a fluke. Can you recreate the problem? If you shut the phone completely off and it appears to charge without overheating, my guess is that the hardware is okay and there is no defect. And in that case, task management and auto-killing programs may be of interest.
liam.lah said:
What do you mean standalone? i bought a motorola phone charger because the US pins don't fit here, i did notice the output is lower, so i expect long charge time. Is that still going to have the same problem not throttling it down at the end.
I suppose my best bet is a pair of pliers to bend the htc charger pins to fit in our wall sockets.
Also, in regards to heavy, for example navigation+ music in a car. Does having it plugged in to power help with that? what happens when it is simultaneously charging and discharging? I also suppse a good tip is to place the mount in front of an air-conditioning vent too, if it is a warm day, the phone will get super hot in minutes, but if you are air con-ing, it will stay cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By standalone and third party I meant one of those little cheapo things you plug into the wall, generally without any wiring, and you put the battery into it instead of charging the battery while it's in your phone. Unless it's the OEM, there is some small danger to using these things but the convenience and cheapness, if you use multiple batteries, may make it worth using anyway, though I'd keep your OEM battery away from it and only use cheap third parties in it.
I'm 80% sure that as long as your phone's involved, meaning the battery's in the phone and something is plugged into the phone to charge it, if you use a weaker charger .... no I'm not 80% sure, let me ask Telek first. But if you've got an outlet that packs a voltage that the charger is indicated to be able to handle, typically 110-220 volts or in that neighborhood, then it's just a matter of getting the thing plugged in (safely) whether you buy a cheap adapter or go nuts with paperclips.
When it's charging and discharging, that's two things heating it up, but I'd be surprised if a serious AC made enough of a difference to make it worth moving the phone to where you otherwise wouldn't mount it. In spite of the extra heat from also charging the phone, running it on a low charge is also not great for longevity purposes but I think, I'm speculating, outweighed by the heat. If your battery's running in excess of 40c, that's not an ideal situation, but hey, you gotta drive sometimes and not devote your life to air conditioning alignment and plugging and unplugging your car charger constantly. I've done enough speculating -- Telek's the expert on this, let him weigh in.
d0ugie said:
Charging the battery and using the battery both create heat. That said, the total heat you'd get from charging during casual use of the battery should not be great enough to warrant the nuisance of not being able to keep your phone on until you finish charging it each time. But 106F (41 Celsius) is indeed whopping hot and, according to not necessarily precise software tests I did on other HTC devices, that is the neighborhood of heat at which the phone eases back the charging current to the point where the phone may either charge at a current about even with what your phone is burning, leaving it without any net gain while running at too hot a temperature for the health of your battery or it will begin to drop the charging current toward zero so that your phone is discharging, waiting until the temperature simmers down until it turns the juice back up.
But what the hell is causing this if you didn't have things like wifi and GPS and streaming video going while talking to someone on your earpiece at the same time? Could be a runaway process, something whacky with something software related, something wrong with the battery, something wrong with the phone or something messed up with the charger. Since you plugged the phone in and didn't use a separate third party charger into which you plop the battery to charge, since the phone was involved, it's probably not the charger. My first guess would be something sketchy software-wise. The first thing I'd do is go into Settings > About phone > Battery use and seeing if anything looks crazy when it lists what software or functions are accounting for how much of the drain relative to each other. If something is burning juice harder than the screen, the good news is is that it might not be a hardware issue, might be something that could be solved with a soft reset. Could just have been a fluke. Can you recreate the problem? If you shut the phone completely off and it appears to charge without overheating, my guess is that the hardware is okay and there is no defect. And in that case, task management and auto-killing programs may be of interest.
.
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Exactly my point. What the hell could be causing it. Today I did a master reset once more, mainly angry with how things where running. Its fast again and so far I have not tried reproducing the situation as yet. I only use GPS for 5min total, mainly for directions. But I'm curious though, I had requested another battery from HTC because the one that came with the phone was losing charge too quickly(10% in hour). So far the new battery was working alot better, but now its the same. I keep hearing people say they get day and half of battery life with regular use and have 3G on. Yet my battery won't pass a day(by night its dead). I only have certain things like news and weather running and refreshing every 3hours to 6hours. I don't have twitter, facebook running or nothing like that. The screen is on auto and it happens wether 3G or EDGE is on. Only 2 hours more with EDGE. Am I doing something wrong? I feel like a complete ediat with two batteries.
I followed all advise, even turn it off during charging. Letting it die completely, tried 4 times this week. Its a regular thing letting it die completely since by the time I'm home I don't charge right way. Mainly because I would be expecting calls. My only option seems to be root unless you can shed some light. I can get a day or more if I leave the brightness on low, no internet or EDGE or no browsing and email syncing, don't fool around with my phone, with only a total of 20min calls during the day. Seems ridiculous to do that since others do ALOT than me and get better battey life. I feel like buy 2 more batteries now..its driving me crazy.
ram130 said:
Exactly my point. What the hell could be causing it. Today I did a master reset once more, mainly angry with how things where running. Its fast again and so far I have not tried reproducing the situation as yet. I only use GPS for 5min total, mainly for directions. But I'm curious though, I had requested another battery from HTC because the one that came with the phone was losing charge too quickly(10% in hour). So far the new battery was working alot better, but now its the same. I keep hearing people say they get day and half of battery life with regular use and have 3G on. Yet my battery won't pass a day(by night its dead). I only have certain things like news and weather running and refreshing every 3hours to 6hours. I don't have twitter, facebook running or nothing like that. The screen is on auto and it happens wether 3G or EDGE is on. Only 2 hours more with EDGE. Am I doing something wrong? I feel like a complete ediat with two batteries.
I followed all advise, even turn it off during charging. Letting it die completely, tried 4 times this week. Its a regular thing letting it die completely since by the time I'm home I don't charge right way. Mainly because I would be expecting calls. My only option seems to be root unless you can shed some light. I can get a day or more if I leave the brightness on low, no internet or EDGE or no browsing and email syncing, don't fool around with my phone, with only a total of 20min calls during the day. Seems ridiculous to do that since others do ALOT than me and get better battey life. I feel like buy 2 more batteries now..its driving me crazy.
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Well sucks. Sorry man.
So you did a hard reset, restoring everything to how it was out of the box, and it still sucks. This might be a longshot but do you happen to be in an area where you typically don't get a full signal? ... and could you see what happens if you go to Settings > About phone > Battery use? It might reveal clues though if you did a hard reset and it didn't help, that suggests some kind of hardware problem I hate to say. Download a battery monitor app and see what kind of temperature you get when using the phone normally. If it's not that high but the thing drains fast, then maybe it's the battery, secondary to what could initially have been a software problem that worked the battery so exhaustingly that it's now behaving like this without the software problem.
That's right though, what people are saying, at least for most of us; I am getting so much better life than I used to on my WinMo phone, free at last. I used to have a second charger, one at my desk, the other by my bed. Not necessary anymore. I bought a spare battery but I haven't had to use it yet. Only used it to run tests for this project.
Any chance you're still under warranty? Don't lose hope just yet man, we might be able to get out of this. Check that battery use thing.
d0ugie said:
Well sucks. Sorry man.
So you did a hard reset, restoring everything to how it was out of the box, and it still sucks. This might be a longshot but do you happen to be in an area where you typically don't get a full signal? ... and could you see what happens if you go to Settings > About phone > Battery use? It might reveal clues though if you did a hard reset and it didn't help, that suggests some kind of hardware problem I hate to say. Download a battery monitor app and see what kind of temperature you get when using the phone normally. If it's not that high but the thing drains fast, then maybe it's the battery, secondary to what could initially have been a software problem that worked the battery so exhaustingly that it's now behaving like this without the software problem.
That's right though, what people are saying, at least for most of us; I am getting so much better life than I used to on my WinMo phone, free at last. I used to have a second charger, one at my desk, the other by my bed. Not necessary anymore. I bought a spare battery but I haven't had to use it yet. Only used it to run tests for this project.
Any chance you're still under warranty? Don't lose hope just yet man, we might be able to get out of this. Check that battery use thing.
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Well so far its been 1hr 32min since I turned it on. I made 5min call and sen a few texts. I'm 94% now and this is what battery use is showing:
Voice calls 39%
Display 29%
Cell standby 7%
Android system 6%
Phone idle 6%
wifi 4%
Gallery 3% (WEIRD, have not went in there)
Android OS 3%
Google 2%
Current temp: 86.9*
Voltage: 4.0.84v
I took some pictures of it. Please note, to take pics I had to plug in via usb, using the SDK.
Lets have some fun!
I found a brand new Seidio 3200mAh battery from when I had a Motorola Q, and since I have no use for the Q or Verizon, the battery is just screaming "Open Me Up!"
View attachment 299144
Heres whats inside: 3 unmarked cells that are 32x48mm.
View attachment 299145
Compare that with the aprox 52x42mm N1 battery, we can do some math:
Code:
32x48 x
------ = ----- x=940mAh/cell * 3cells = 2820mAh total
52x44 1400
Of course this is just an approximation. The cells should be 1066mAh each, and they very well could be. I'm happy to see 3 cells in there
The new Seidio N1 battery is 52x44mm 9.5mm thick vs 4.75mm thick for the stock battery.
Simple math here, I bet theres two 1400mAh cells in it Although, they do sell a 1600mAh battery, so If thats true, then this battery could have two 1600mAh cells in it.
I weighed each cell in grams:
Code:
N1 1400mAh 30g
MQ 3200mAh 56g
N1 3200mAh 58g
N1 2400mAh 51g
Edit: Added Cameron Sino 2400.
Accounting for packaging, It sure looks like the two 3200mAh batteries are really 2800mAh.
Lets assume thought that Seidio has higher capacity/gram batteries. This will be proven when it gets tested by d0ugie.
ram130 said:
Well so far its been 1hr 32min since I turned it on. I made 5min call and sen a few texts. I'm 94% now and this is what battery use is showing:
Voice calls 39%
Display 29%
Cell standby 7%
Android system 6%
Phone idle 6%
wifi 4%
Gallery 3% (WEIRD, have not went in there)
Android OS 3%
Google 2%
Current temp: 86.9*
Voltage: 4.0.84v
I took some pictures of it. Please note, to take pics I had to plug in via usb, using the SDK.
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I'd contact tech support because Doug is probably right. You have to have either a hardware or software problem that is causing your phone to drain your battery (like GPS is always on, even though it shows it is off).
ram130 said:
Well so far its been 1hr 32min since I turned it on. I made 5min call and sen a few texts. I'm 94% now and this is what battery use is showing:
Voice calls 39%
Display 29%
Cell standby 7%
Android system 6%
Phone idle 6%
wifi 4%
Gallery 3% (WEIRD, have not went in there)
Android OS 3%
Google 2%
Current temp: 86.9*
Voltage: 4.0.84v
I took some pictures of it. Please note, to take pics I had to plug in via usb, using the SDK.
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Is Gallery is activated every time you look up contacts and used for the background?
I think you have your phone searching for signal all time. Go into the wireless settings and click the Only use 2g networks. Only turn it on manually when you want to use 3g.
Tell us how your battery is after that. I suspect you spend some time in areas where the phone is boosting power to get a good signal and its causing battery loss. (BTW, you only get a few hours with the screen on)
Maybe you could try using the phone during a typical day, then posting your battery results after 8+ hours of use... that should give us a better idea of where your drain is coming from, but if it is still inconclusive I would still say you should contact tech support.
http://www.cellularaccessory.com/eb145152yzbstd.html
Are all the batteries from the galaxy series the same?
Has any one tried it?
ranchosteve said:
http://www.cellularaccessory.com/eb145152yzbstd.html
Are all the batteries from the galaxy series the same?
Has any one tried it?
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It will probably fit, I don't doubt it but there seem to be a battery door as well and by the looks of it. Although it seems its for the fasinate only.
the fascinates battery fits but when ever I charge the phone, it says battery not detected, and the phone does not charge. more than likely you'd get the same error with the extended one.
all the galaxy s phones use the same 1500 mh battery i have the epic but i bought the battery sold for the vibrant and the have the same exact serial numbers on them.
says it needs a xl door
http://cgi.ebay.com/SAMSUNG-EXTENDE...200369?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item255d7c0b31
http://cgi.ebay.com/2200mAh-Extende...226762?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item1c1473f04a
I just did a search for Samsung 2200mah and came up with a 3 page list of batteries and phones. I'd be completely fine with a thicker phone to get longer battery lfe.
I just did a search for Samsung 2200mah and came up with a 3 page list of batteries and phones. I'd be completely fine with a thicker phone to get longer battery lfe.
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has any1 tried these batteries?
I bet the batteries are fine, it's getting the door to fit back on being the next issue.
i ordered me one
now waiting for epic battery cover
Since the battery is thicker, you could halfass the cover by simply cutting an opening in it just enough that the battery could protrude from it and still allow the stock cover to snap on. Other than it being pretty, the battery hump would stick out less than the cover that is included on that eBay Fascinate link. Or maybe you could get really fancy by cutting off the bump from the Fascinate cover and epoxy it or something to your existing Epic cover.
As I'm sitting here writing this, I'm thinking about just doing it myself...dremel out the hump and epoxy it to the Epic cover, using enough epoxy to create a smooth transition lip instead of an actual bump, light sanding to clean up the epoxy work and then wrap it in some 3M Di-NOC carbon fiber graphics while I'm at it.
The ONLY problems I've ever heard with some of the aftermarket batteries (while I was on the Samsung Moment forums) was that occasionally people would get an incompatible battery warning on their phone, but could easily be resolved with a reset. Once you get yours, keep us posted how it works out. When I first got my phone, the battery was completely dead, but I was thankful. I read random stories (which are debatable) as to if battery conditioning is even necessary or if it even matters. Either way, I put my phone on the wall charger (faster than USB via a computer) and let it charge completely. I then ran about 4 streaming music apps at once to completely kill the battery, then did a nice slow charge on the PC. While I can't say if my battery life is good or bad compared to anyone else since everyones usage is different, at least I can say I tried to condition it. My point is that I've tested the life of batteries this way when swapping between older and newer batteries on my Treo as well. Charge them till their full, run a battery intensive app (streaming for example) and timed how long it took to die. I have Treo batteries that lasted as little as 1.75hrs and as much as 3.5hrs, so naturally I keep the 3.5 in there as much as possible. You could test your current battery vs the extended battery the same way. I chose streaming as my testing of choice since I stream music while working anyways, so it wasn't anything out of the ordinary...I'd just let it go until the music stopped, noted the time and swapped to the next battery. Maybe you could do the same to confirm the difference in life between the 1500 and 2200 battery, otherwise we'll never know.
On a side note, I like this cover http://cgi.ebay.com/3000mAh-Extende...788955?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item5adbfc1b1b since it thickens the whole phone vs just adding a hump. That hump would just be constanly snagging the edge of my pocket everytime, hence why I wanted to make it a smooth transitional edge like I mentioned above. Also, this battery is 3000mah, 2x the stock Epic battery. Is the i9000 the same height and width as our batteries? It'd be an even larger hump, but twice the battery...hmmmm.
One thing to keep in mind about battery ratings is that it is dependent on discharge rate. A battery discharged at 1 c will have a different and lower apparent capacity than the same battery discharged at 0.1 c. Thus a larger battery benefits in two ways. Physical size and lowering of the c rate based on the same amp draw. This is where less reputable battery makers cheat. They will put an incredibly small load on a battery to achieve a higher rating.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
So, what's your point? How does one distinguish a good battery vs a bad battery then if we're going to try and test these?
I'm waiting for Seidio to release this battery. They have an extended battery for the Evo and it gets good reviews overall, as seen here. Super expensive and makes the phone super bulky though
Why wait for Seidio and their overpriced batteries? People have been buying the extended batteries for the Moment for years via eBay, so why would any of the Galaxy S line batteries be any different for the sub $20 range?
m5james said:
So, what's your point? How does one distinguish a good battery vs a bad battery then if we're going to try and test these?
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The point is that unless they are giving you a physically larger battery, not to put too much faith in the MaH ratings of batteries. Especially ones out of china with no brand to speak of. The difference between a 1500mah and a 1700mah is likely in how they discharged to to rate it.
If you can find it, the C rate on discharge is a good indicator of quality in lithium batteries. Higher C rate discharge have lower internal resistance and are made with better materials. I'm not sure how likely you are to find the full specs on a phone battery.
In a test environment its not too difficult to figure out which is which. Put a temperature probe on it, and then put a high load on it. The one with the lowest temp is probably your best battery. (same size anyways)
Assuming the 2200mAH batteries are genuine Samsung OEM, I'd love to see one get tested by the guy at batteryboss.org to see how they rate under the same test conditions as the other batteries he's tested. If they end up being real, honest-to-god 2200mAH @ 250mA discharge, that would put them right on par capacity-wise with the average, much thicker no-name nominally-3500mAH Evo/Desire/Hero batteries from eBay. 1500 definitely isn't big enough, but a real 2200mAH battery with back that's large enough to accommodate it (preferably with a sculpted, rounded profile instead of a boxy pregnant lump) might be a nice alternative to a full-blown ~2800mAH-nominally-3200/3500mAH extended battery from Seidio.
In any case, I think it's been well established by now that the "extended" batteries that are the same size, but ~100mAH larger than stock, are almost a complete waste of money. Even when they DO last 30-60 minutes longer, you seriously have to question the sanity of spending so much for so little.
That said, I suspect that most of the cheap 2200mAH batteries that will eventually end up on eBay will end up testing out at around 1500mAH.
Geekybiker said:
The point is that unless they are giving you a physically larger battery, not to put too much faith in the MaH ratings of batteries. Especially ones out of china with no brand to speak of. The difference between a 1500mah and a 1700mah is likely in how they discharged to to rate it.
If you can find it, the C rate on discharge is a good indicator of quality in lithium batteries. Higher C rate discharge have lower internal resistance and are made with better materials. I'm not sure how likely you are to find the full specs on a phone battery.
In a test environment its not too difficult to figure out which is which. Put a temperature probe on it, and then put a high load on it. The one with the lowest temp is probably your best battery. (same size anyways)
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I think I got what you mean. Either way, both the 2200mah and 3000mah battery are incrementally large than the next vs the stock 1500mah battery, so I would assume that each battery will in fact store more of a charge.
has anyone tested whether these batteries work and charge normally? If they do work, you can grab a cheap hard case on ebay for 3 dollars and cut a hole through it for the battery. It will be ugly though, unless you figure out how to make it look nice
Why don't you go on Ebay and buy yourself a good extended battery 2800 mah and use your phone for 2 full days without charging? http://cgi.ebay.com/Sprint-Epic-4G-...450945198?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item1e5f7b74ae USA supplier, great guy and has excellent customer service.
kevinjmoore said:
Why don't you go on Ebay and buy yourself a good extended battery 2800 mah and use your phone for 2 full days without charging? http://cgi.ebay.com/Sprint-Epic-4G-...450945198?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item1e5f7b74ae USA supplier, great guy and has excellent customer service.
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Or save yourself 15 bucks and get this 3500mah battery and get 3 full days without charging.
http://cgi.ebay.com/3500mAh-Extende...Accessories&hash=item3cb2c4bb14#ht_4129wt_916