So, as someone living and working in China, I've been super excited following up on the Xiaomi Phone. When they released the price as 2000 RMB (about $310 USD), I knew it had to be fake, or there was some serious funny business. The numbers just don't add up.
Engadget recently had a review of the Xiaomi phone and had it benchmarking near the Galaxy S 2 in several tests, so I think it makes sense to compare these two:
SGS 2 Advantages: Super AMOLED screen; 4.3 inch screen (vs 4 inch); forward facing camera; 1080p video recording (vs 720p); onboard storage (16 GB vs 4 GB); slightly smaller footprint.
Xiaomi Advantages: Price; processor speed (1.5 Ghz vs 1.2); battery (1930 mAh vs 1650); GLONASS and GPS tracking; highly customizable UI out of the box.
In China, the SGS2 retails for about 4300 RMB (about $670 USD). So how does a phone which is in the SGS2's ballpark retail for less than half the price?
It gets even more peculiar. Here are some questions Xiaomi hasn't cleared up(or at least I haven't seen their responses yet):
1) Xiaomi uses a Qualcomm processor and a LCD screen from Sharp (Japanese import). So they can't be using local parts to save costs, how are they able to offer the phone at only $310?
2) Local competitors like Huawei and ZTE who have much more experience in manufacturing (and much more leverage with suppliers) have yet to produce a phone remotely like this. Also, their closest local competition in terms of specs is something like the Huawei Honor, a single core phone that retails for about $400. Yet Xiaomi, which has never produced hardware before is getting better deals than these guys on components? Samsung also does component development in-house, but Xiaomi is getting better pricing than Samsung?
3) Xiaomi was originally a software developer. How did they pull a piece of impressive hardware like this out of nowhere?
4) Why retail for $310? They could sell it for $500 and it would still be way cheaper than an SGS2. Hell, I paid more than 2000 RMB for the crappy 2 year old Nokia I'm still using over here.
My Chinese is OK so I've been trying to read more on the Xiaomi forums, but I haven't really gotten any new information, other than there's something like 300,000 preorders already. I figure there's got to be some serious funny business going on. Probably:
a) ridiculous free loans and/or development assistance from the government to built up national prestige; or
b) copying another phone's internals verbatim; or
c) fake components of some kind
It looked really smooth in the Engadget video, so I'm inclined to be believe it's option A. Good for consumers I guess, but probably lousy if you're a Chinese taxpayer. Any ideas on why the price is so low?
Smaller companies tend to do these kind of things.
However I'm interested as well.
I believe that it's one part 'a' and another that generally huawei and zte have primarily been marketed for export (to SE Asia, India, EU) but the government is really trying to subsidize local start ups to fight imports (like HTC, Sony, etc...) and get Chinese to spend their money on Chinese things. But if a Chinese phone were 3000 RMB and a Korean or Japanese phone was also 3000 RMB, no one would get the Chinese phone for obvious reasons.
so basically you just made up a thread without any evidence and full of speculation accusing Xiaomi not being legit.
india are making ARM Cortex 9 phones with 4 GB for only $35
if they can do it, so can china
lol
Mmmhmm .
I don't why people have so much comments , no offence though .
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App
I support you , and do your know meizu'M9 or MX?
hehe
it is good for everyone. thank you!
AllGamer said:
india are making ARM Cortex 9 phones with 4 GB for only $35
if they can do it, so can china
lol
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Click to collapse
Seriously?
cdesai said:
Seriously?
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yes, there is a post with the pictures and spec here in the forum
aprox 5 days old
it's made for the india school system
Hi it's my first post and I have no exact figures to support this other than a simple comparison to another industry.
I remember hearing from someone that the mark up on mobile phones (this was a while ago) was a few hundred percent. Remember that it doesn't cost 800 dollars to make a phone and the people that usually make it in third world manufacturing companies or places with poor working conditions only get paid a few dollars an hour to make your 800 dollar phones.
our
My comparison industry is optometry. The following information comes from someone I know who is an optometrist:
"Frames like Gucci and Prada cost $3 per frame to make. In the stores you pay $500 dollars to buy them. That is an insane mark up. However they can't retail it cheaper because of an agreement in place to prevent the devaluation of the brand."
I am sure the same thing happens in the cell phone industry.
Just thought that this might put the legitimacy of the phone in perspective.
Thanks for your time.
andao79 said:
So, as someone living and working in China, I've been super excited following up on the Xiaomi Phone. When they released the price as 2000 RMB (about $310 USD), I knew it had to be fake, or there was some serious funny business. The numbers just don't add up.
Engadget recently had a review of the Xiaomi phone and had it benchmarking near the Galaxy S 2 in several tests, so I think it makes sense to compare these two:
SGS 2 Advantages: Super AMOLED screen; 4.3 inch screen (vs 4 inch); forward facing camera; 1080p video recording (vs 720p); onboard storage (16 GB vs 4 GB); slightly smaller footprint.
Xiaomi Advantages: Price; processor speed (1.5 Ghz vs 1.2); battery (1930 mAh vs 1650); GLONASS and GPS tracking; highly customizable UI out of the box.
In China, the SGS2 retails for about 4300 RMB (about $670 USD). So how does a phone which is in the SGS2's ballpark retail for less than half the price?
It gets even more peculiar. Here are some questions Xiaomi hasn't cleared up(or at least I haven't seen their responses yet):
1) Xiaomi uses a Qualcomm processor and a LCD screen from Sharp (Japanese import). So they can't be using local parts to save costs, how are they able to offer the phone at only $310?
2) Local competitors like Huawei and ZTE who have much more experience in manufacturing (and much more leverage with suppliers) have yet to produce a phone remotely like this. Also, their closest local competition in terms of specs is something like the Huawei Honor, a single core phone that retails for about $400. Yet Xiaomi, which has never produced hardware before is getting better deals than these guys on components? Samsung also does component development in-house, but Xiaomi is getting better pricing than Samsung?
3) Xiaomi was originally a software developer. How did they pull a piece of impressive hardware like this out of nowhere?
4) Why retail for $310? They could sell it for $500 and it would still be way cheaper than an SGS2. Hell, I paid more than 2000 RMB for the crappy 2 year old Nokia I'm still using over here.
My Chinese is OK so I've been trying to read more on the Xiaomi forums, but I haven't really gotten any new information, other than there's something like 300,000 preorders already. I figure there's got to be some serious funny business going on. Probably:
a) ridiculous free loans and/or development assistance from the government to built up national prestige; or
b) copying another phone's internals verbatim; or
c) fake components of some kind
It looked really smooth in the Engadget video, so I'm inclined to be believe it's option A. Good for consumers I guess, but probably lousy if you're a Chinese taxpayer. Any ideas on why the price is so low?
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Click to collapse
I'd get the M9 or M9x ( or something.. Quad Core? HELLOOOOO )
I don't see why someone would get a device ONLY for Miui, most phones out there have a build of MIUI.
You really think that $600 phone costs $600 to make?
The markup on electrical goods from brand names can be over 200%
My point is not really related to the idea of a markup, I KNOW all cell phones have a dramatic markup, and I read not long ago an iPhone 4 costs about $180 to make, while they retail for something like $600 out of contract.
I'm more interested in a) How did this company come out of nowhere with this sort of hardware? and b) They don't NEED to sell it for 2000 RMB for it to be a hit. They could have sold it for $400-450 and it would have still been a hell of a lot cheaper than a Galaxy S 2.
That, coupled with the fact that the big guns in China (Meizu, Huawei, ZTE) are not even in the same ballpark with specs or price, is really weird.
If i can demo one and it works well, i'll definitely pick one up, but there must be some serious funny business behind the scenes.
Why must there be funny business?
Well, you can build a cheap phone if you want.
The question is: can you sell it cheap?
Operating costs, brand advertisement etc. They have no problem there, they just build a phone having no ad space on western media.They can do it, they are smart enough.Plus: we enthusiasts are their advertisement plan, we buy it for cheap, all our friends will buy it.
It's a win win scenario.My 2 eurocents.
andao79 said:
My point is not really related to the idea of a markup, I KNOW all cell phones have a dramatic markup, and I read not long ago an iPhone 4 costs about $180 to make, while they retail for something like $600 out of contract.
I'm more interested in a) How did this company come out of nowhere with this sort of hardware? and b) They don't NEED to sell it for 2000 RMB for it to be a hit. They could have sold it for $400-450 and it would have still been a hell of a lot cheaper than a Galaxy S 2.
That, coupled with the fact that the big guns in China (Meizu, Huawei, ZTE) are not even in the same ballpark with specs or price, is really weird.
If i can demo one and it works well, i'll definitely pick one up, but there must be some serious funny business behind the scenes.
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Click to collapse
The issue is risk. Do you risk spending $300 on a new unknown brand or do you spend $450 on a noname brand when you can get a well known brand for $600?
There is obviously going to be a greater curve of buyers the lower the price you go and finding the balance is where your marketers need mettle. I think the current price is going to be very good to get users into buying the phone. Obviously, if they can become the new HTC, their markup is going to increase hugely.
My concern is going to be: at ~$300, what is the customer service going to be like? HTC's is mediocre here in the UK, but if Vodafone, Orange et al resell this phone, it's going to be VERY attractive to us as the carriers are held responsible until end of warranty.
russ18uk said:
The issue is risk. Do you risk spending $300 on a new unknown brand or do you spend $450 on a noname brand when you can get a well known brand for $600?
There is obviously going to be a greater curve of buyers the lower the price you go and finding the balance is where your marketers need mettle. I think the current price is going to be very good to get users into buying the phone. Obviously, if they can become the new HTC, their markup is going to increase hugely.
My concern is going to be: at ~$300, what is the customer service going to be like? HTC's is mediocre here in the UK, but if Vodafone, Orange et al resell this phone, it's going to be VERY attractive to us as the carriers are held responsible until end of warranty.
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Click to collapse
Just to clarify, the retailer is responsible until you have had a reasonable amount of use out of it irrespective of warranty
The law doesn't care about warranties, they're in the best case an agreement that the device will be repaired without the need to take legal action, and in the worst case used to illegally convince consumers they have no rights.
Take my Sensation, afaik it has a 12month warranty.
Say the screen dies after 18 months, I'll be demanding O2 repair or replace it otherwise I'll be contacting trading standards as being a phone provided on a 24 month contract I should be able to expect it to last at least 24 months and more especially considering the price when new.
I love being a consumer in the UK
Xiaomo said:
I support you , and do your know meizu'M9 or MX?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes~ Meizu much better than xiaomi
kerwin_pig said:
yes~ Meizu much better than xiaomi
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Click to collapse
WHY DID YOU DIG UP OLD THREADS
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Hey guys,
So I'm thinking about getting a new mid range phone, and while I asked earlier on this subreddit about a Xiaomi phone, I got the feeling that most people would rather go after another phone as a budget phone. I have stumpled upoen the Huawei M10 Lite, Motorola G6 Play and even the Huawei P20 lite, but wonder if I should pick any of those, or even another phone as a mid range phone?
Now the story: I have an iPhone 6S, which is more or less dead. The antenna is garbage (even worse than my GF's, which also have an 6S, so my phone is somewhat damaged apparently), and the battery life is not what its used to be, and since I am done with expensive phones (which is why I go for a mid range Android), I was thinking about getting a new one. The Android market is a little more complext than the iPhone market, since theres usually 2-3 iPhone models that comes out every year, which make the choice easier, but the Android market is a jungle for someone who doesn't really know the market well. The reason I've chosen M10 Lite, G6 Play and Huawei p20 Lite as choices is because the budget doesnt break my bank, and even though they all have flaws, they seem like good phones for the price. I live in Denmark, where prices are somewhat high on the phones. Right now most of them are on sale, and the prices range like this:
Huawei M10 Lite : 266 USD (On Sale, normal price 313 USD) Moto G6 Play: 235 USD Huawei P20 Lite: 360 USD (On Sale, normal price (438)
What's important for me is a phone thats not sluggish, and has a decent camera. I know these mid range phones has pretty bad cameras, with some better than other. But none of them can match my iphone 6S in that regard.
Are any of these phones worth it, or is it worth digging up an old flagship from the previous years, and in which case, which one?
Hi! We have a dedicated thread for these types of questions, https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1620179
So I'll close this one. Good luck! :good:
Hi, so my girlfriend wants a phone with a good camera, above the average really, for this kind of price, between 500 and 600 bucks.
phones in Brazil are usually pretty expensive, so she wants to buy one during our stay in los angeles next month, but shopping for unlocked phones in the US is surprisingly difficult.
my first choice for her was the oneplus 6, which is around that price and is a great bang for the buck, problem is we can't ship it to the airbnb we're staying, and they don't sell it anywhere else other than their website. an amazon locker would be an option but someone is selling oneplus 6 on amazon for like $100 more than the msrp, which is a no-no
so that excludes pretty much most of the chinese phones. then I suggested her a galaxy s9 which is a little above her budget but has a top camera, and sells on stores like best buy, but I've been collecting testimonials from people that had samsung's infamous curved screen phones, and not one single person managed to keep the screen intact for more than 6 months. apparently it breaks as soon as you grab the phone, regardless of cases and screen protectors.
this budget range is like a gap, there are a million phones for less than $400, and a gazillion for more than $700.
I wanted something that didn't have:
-thick last generation top and bottom borders, (notches and thin borders are fine)
-huge screens (small ones like the s9 are great, could go a little bigger than that)
-curved screens (this doesn't bother me as much as I'd think, but people say it breaks instantly so it got me worried)
-glass back (ok this is a tough one, everything has glass backs these days, so I guess I won't be able to avoid this one)
I know it's quite specific, but really I just want a good phone with a good camera that doesn't have major design flaws, costs around 500-600 and is sold in physical stores (or maybe on amazon, assuming it's not overpriced).
why is this so hard?
any suggestions?
fael097 said:
Hi, so my girlfriend wants a phone with a good camera, above the average really, for this kind of price, between 500 and 600 bucks.
phones in Brazil are usually pretty expensive, so she wants to buy one during our stay in los angeles next month, but shopping for unlocked phones in the US is surprisingly difficult.
my first choice for her was the oneplus 6, which is around that price and is a great bang for the buck, problem is we can't ship it to the airbnb we're staying, and they don't sell it anywhere else other than their website. an amazon locker would be an option but someone is selling oneplus 6 on amazon for like $100 more than the msrp, which is a no-no
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a thread for that :
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1620179
Copy your thread and post in the appropriate thread to have proper guidance
that being said ^^^ thread closed
Hello guys!
Do you have the problem like I do that I really would like to buy a fresh, new, fast phone with a new original battery, but looking at the current market I can not find any that suits to me? I am not talking about poor performance or lack of choice, but size... I'm really not interested in those enourmous 6"-6.5" phones because that big size is not comfortable for me, even though I have big hands.
Where is the era of 5"-5.8" phones gone? Do you think the large phones trend will ever stop?
In my situation I'm trying to look at used phones market, but this is also super problematic. If I find a used 5.5" device that suits me, it's battery is pretty much dead. I could buy a new battery and replace it without a problem, but there is no way I can find an original/genuine battery that will have a reasonable and solid life time. This is pathetic I think the dying 2-years batteries is the main trick that corporations use today to force us to change phone every 2-3 years ?
Do you feel me?
Well the way I've decided to combat this is by subscribing to Samsungs access program where I pay like 40 a month and in 9 months I can upgrade to the note 21 or S21 (if I choose to switch). I had the note 9 for 2 years and what I've noticed is I refuse to outright sell my phones for cheap rates after dropping 1200 plus on it. So now I've accumulated phones over the years since Samsung switched up and stopped allowing the early upgrade program with carriers. I got stuck with an s7 plus and 2 note 9s that are just collecting dust. I'm not selling either one for a few hundred dollars. And with insurance from Verizon, if anything happens to my phone I can just get a refurbished one sent to me and then I'll just trade that one back in when I'm ready to upgrade next year. This way I get the fresh new flagships every year and stop accumulating phones. The only downside is the fact that I wanted a phone with dual sim capabilities but Samsung only sells single sim in the US. I guess you can't have it all. Hopefully they eventually fix this issue and provide esim and/or dual sim capable phones in the future.
Now as far as smaller phones, I am not too sure. I believe all the major brands now have been offering smaller variations like the s20 e or fe or whatever its called. The only downside to this is I believe although they are cheaper then the full size flagships, they sadly do have less features and/or tech such as the cameras.
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
I have always wondered whether there is some kind of “budget phone XDA Developers community” which gathers people who just want to buy a decent phone for less than USD 250 (as at: 1st November 2022) and use it as long as they can, preferably for at least (four to) five years before they are thinking about buying a new model.
My current phone, a Motorola Moto G5, is such a phone. Back in 2018, I spent about EUR 120-150 on it and I am running LineageOS on it from then on. Time, however, is leaving its marks on the phone and the power button is hardly working anymore. Furthermore, LineageOS 18.1 seems to be the last release for that model and building a newer version of LineageOS from scratch every month in order to get the latest Android security updates can be pretty cumbersome (if someone does not compile and upload the latest versions of LineageOS for that specific device regularly so that they can be downloaded as an over-the-air update (OTA update) at least once a month). Also, the internal storage capacity of 16 GB is a bit outdated nowadays.
I have asked what current phone would be a good budget phone but I did not get an answer yet. Then, I stumbled across an interesting phone which is very similar to my old Motorola Moto G5: The Motorola Moto G22. I thought that it is a budget phone that other people might be interested in it as well but there is not a subforum on XDA Developers that deals with this model. So, I posted to the “*** New Device Forum Requests ***” thread but there are many devices requested by different users. This makes it unlikely that the Motorola Moto G22 will be picked as a candidate if only very few people vote for it.
I am interested in a phone like the Motorola Moto G22 because it meets certain criteria when it comes to “decent budget phones”. These factors, I would like to point out, come into play when I am thinking about buying a new phone:
The phone must not cost more than USD 250 (as at: 1st November 2022).
The release date of the phone must not be more than one year in the past.
There has to be a possibility to disassemble the phone and replace the battery (even if this means removing glue, etc. manually).
There has to be a possibility to buy a replacement battery for no more than USD 20-50 (as at: 1st November 2022).
A robust case and screen protectors for the phone have to be available in order to prevent it from getting damaged. (After all, it should serve its owner for many years.)
LineageOS, as one of the most widely spread custom ROMs for Android phones (as at: 1st November 2022), should be available throughout its lifecycle.
The internal storage capacity of the phone has to be at least 64 GB (as at: 1st November 2022).
The cameras should be able to make better pictures and videos than the ones of the last budget phone.
The display resolution should be at least as high if not higher than the one from the last budget phone.
If you can come up with some other good points that matter to many “smart spenders”, please post them to this thread.
The Motorola Moto G22 seems to be a good phone when it comes to fulfilling these points:
The phone costs EUR 150.
The release date of the phone is 2nd March 2022.
The phone can be disassambled.
A replacement battery can be purchased for USD 23.
A robust case and screen protectors are available.
(LineageOS is not (yet) available for the device.)
The internal storage capacity of the phone is 64 GB.
The cameras are better than that of the Motorola Moto G5.
The display resolution is lower than that of the Motorola Moto G5. (This is something that I can deal with. It may, after all, lead to a longer battery life.)
I suppose that I am not the only one thinking in such a manner. Who else is sharing the same values like me when it comes to budget phones? Spending as little and using them for as long as possible.
Every year, at least one great budget phone is released by one manufacturer. Developing custom ROMs for at least one of the new models every year and maintaining these efforts for at least (four to) five years can give every like-minded person the possibility to “join the club” whenever they choose to do so without having to wait until next year when a new great budget phone may be released and may be supported in such a way.
What do you think of all this? Would you like to join such a “community” or “club” because you share its views and values?
Nemgathos said:
I have always wondered whether there is some kind of “budget phone XDA Developers community” which gathers people who just want to buy a decent phone for less than USD 250 (as at: 1st November 2022) and use it as long as they can, preferably for at least (four to) five years before they are thinking about buying a new model.
My current phone, a Motorola Moto G5, is such a phone. Back in 2018, I spent about EUR 120-150 on it and I am running LineageOS on it from then on. Time, however, is leaving its marks on the phone and the power button is hardly working anymore. Furthermore, LineageOS 18.1 seems to be the last release for that model and building a newer version of LineageOS from scratch every month in order to get the latest Android security updates can be pretty cumbersome (if someone does not compile and upload the latest versions of LineageOS for that specific device regularly so that they can be downloaded as an over-the-air update (OTA update) at least once a month). Also, the internal storage capacity of 16 GB is a bit outdated nowadays.
I have asked what current phone would be a good budget phone but I did not get an answer yet. Then, I stumbled across an interesting phone which is very similar to my old Motorola Moto G5: The Motorola Moto G22. I thought that it is a budget phone that other people might be interested in it as well but there is not a subforum on XDA Developers that deals with this model. So, I posted to the “*** New Device Forum Requests ***” thread but there are many devices requested by different users. This makes it unlikely that the Motorola Moto G22 will be picked as a candidate if only very few people vote for it.
I am interested in a phone like the Motorola Moto G22 because it meets certain criteria when it comes to “decent budget phones”. These factors, I would like to point out, come into play when I am thinking about buying a new phone:
The phone must not cost more than USD 250 (as at: 1st November 2022).
The release date of the phone must not be more than one year in the past.
There has to be a possibility to disassemble the phone and replace the battery (even if this means removing glue, etc. manually).
There has to be a possibility to buy a replacement battery for no more than USD 20-50 (as at: 1st November 2022).
A robust case and screen protectors for the phone have to be available in order to prevent it from getting damaged. (After all, it should serve its owner for many years.)
LineageOS, as one of the most widely spread custom ROMs for Android phones (as at: 1st November 2022), should be available throughout its lifecycle.
The internal storage capacity of the phone has to be at least 64 GB (as at: 1st November 2022).
The cameras should be able to make better pictures and videos than the ones of the last budget phone.
The display resolution should be at least as high if not higher than the one from the last budget phone.
If you can come up with some other good points that matter to many “smart spenders”, please post them to this thread.
The Motorola Moto G22 seems to be a good phone when it comes to fulfilling these points:
The phone costs EUR 150.
The release date of the phone is 2nd March 2022.
The phone can be disassambled.
A replacement battery can be purchased for USD 23.
A robust case and screen protectors are available.
(LineageOS is not (yet) available for the device.)
The internal storage capacity of the phone is 64 GB.
The cameras are better than that of the Motorola Moto G5.
The display resolution is less than that of the Motorola Moto G5. (This is something that I can deal with. It may, after all, lead to a longer battery life.)
I suppose that I am not the only one thinking in such a manner. Who else is sharing the same values like me when it comes to budget phones? Spending as little and using them for as long as possible.
Every year, at least one great budget phone is released by one manufacturer. Developing custom ROMs for at least one of the new models every year and maintaining these efforts for at least (four to) five years can give every like-minded person the possibility to “join the club” whenever they choose to do so without having to wait until next year when a new great budget phone may be released and may be supported in such a way.
What do you think of all this? Would you like to join such a “community” or “club” because you share its views and values?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, xda caters to any category of spenders. Have you checked those threads of people asking about suggestions for their next devices? 80% of them ask within your budget. Thus there would be no point in making another community.
Given that you are using euro currency, have you checked Xiaomi? They provide great mid range smartphones, well within that price range.
Custom roms development are made by users whom bought the phone. Just check how popular is either phone before buying it. If it has an average community 6 months after launch, it should be a pretty safe bet.
Also, either go on gsmarena and get your answer or have a little patience. No one is hired to answer all those questions and everyone has their own life and problems to handle.