Database Info

Galaxy S4... And others.... a bit.... meh?

This is likely to be first time in 7 years i haven't upgraded my phone upon a handset refresh.
I'm a terrible phone whore with very little loyalty to brand, i like to own the best phone of the moment and hop between manufacturers. I'd imagine most people on here do the same, with the exception of the insanely irreverent fanboys. Recently (Last 2 years) i've owned.. S2, iPhone 4S, S3, HTC One X and Nexus 4. (Also throw in a couple of dips to Sony and Windows Mobile for brief periods).
First of all, the S4 and the HTC One look like cracking devices. In my eyes they both have positives and negatives and if push came to shove and somebody forced me by gunpoint to pick one, i'd be hard pressed to make a decision.. Perhaps S4 but only because of the battery life and timely updates.. There really is little in it.. Anyone who thinks so is only splitting hairs.
If you're sat using an S2 or a mobile a good 2 years old i can truly appreciate what a jump that the S4 or HTC One to be for you. But if you're the kind of person who upgrades over a 12 month period, there really is little to excite at the moment.
I can't help but feel disappointing..
CPU:
This is the most frustrating topic... We've been steadily increasing in power with little gains in power management, Nvidia tried their best with that '5th core' but ultimately left us all wanting... I'd say the biggest single concern for most smartphone users is battery life now, struggling to make it through a heavy day is part and parcel of owning a mobile.
We are so very close to big.LITTLE kicking in and it seems to be that Samsung and HTC kicked off a little early, shown by the (almost complete) lack of availability of their Exynos variant..
If i bought the S4 or HTC One i'd feel almost cheated if the rumored battery performance of the upcoming CPUs in this segment are anything to go by.
Screen:
Mobile phone addiction aside, one of my other rather 'nerdy' fascination is with audio visual kit, much to my wifes misery.. Screen quality is undoubtedly a big thing for me, yet even i struggle to justify the move from a 720p resolution to a 1080p resolution on a screen only 4.7-5" big..
I've seen the HTC One in person and while i will confess at close proximity i can distinguish the difference, it is by no means the jump the market departments of said companies would like you to think.. I'd go as far to say that most (myself included) would struggle to notice the difference between the two during regular daily use.
LTE:
This is less the mobile manufacturers fault and more the networks but 4G coverage is absolutely woeful when you consider the mass rollout of hardware to utilize. I always thought the S3 LTE was pointless but was convinced this was the early warning sign the governments / networks needed to shift into gear, it doesn't appear to have happened. It's like giving everybody a Bugatti Veyron and telling them they're only allowed to drive it in speed limited residential areas..
I've got friends in the states and U.K and despite the rather gut-wrenching price they pay for LTE price plans, the performance seems poor. I do think we are a good year away from 4G being a realistic benefit to the average consumer, with small pockets of countries experiencing early gains if they live in the capital.
The only positive i can take away from all this is my other half does not have to watch me trawl through reviews, debate the best deal and then watch me giddy on the day of delivery...
Here's hopping next year is a little better!

Have to agree with this, nothing special so far

@OP ( dont wanna quote the whole post lol), trust me when i say that i am one of the biggest phone junkies around, i owned almost all of the flagship of 2012 and plan on owning quite a few in 2013. I see what you're saying when you say " meh" cause phones like the nexus 4, S3, Optimus G and note 2 are already mighty powerful but i think this is where samsung and HTC lead the pack and differentiate themselves with other brands. HTC came out with the best design a phone ever had ( in my opinion) and fantastic sound quality while samsung is expanding its crazy awesome features ( gimmicky for some, absolutely great for me). Its hard to outdo the great phones that came out last year so my question is what did you expect?

I think you need to find more hobbies/occupations in your life tbh.

But to be honest, we are at a point where technology, and especially phones are improving at a very systematical and incremental ways.
Slightly better processor
Slightly better camera
Slightly better screen
Slightly better battery
Really, we will be stuck on this pattern until something revolutionary comes into the mobile market.

JaeKay said:
But to be honest, we are at a point where technology, and especially phones are improving at a very systematical and incremental ways.
Slightly better processor
Slightly better camera
Slightly better screen
Slightly better battery
Really, we will be stuck on this pattern until something revolutionary comes into the mobile market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but with all that, there's a lot that's looked over. Like if you have a Samsung Smart TV you can stream what is on your TV to your phoen anywhere you go.
We now have a IR controller with a built in TV Guide. Built in reminder to remind you also. Links to Rotten Tomatoes for movies.
There's a lot more. I just don't know what is revolutionary anymore. The problem is other technology has to catch up, like TVs, Amplifiers and audio receivers, car GPS, etc. The only thing the phone can do now is control and interact with other things.
What can honestly be revolutionary with current technology and our phones now?

How about work on voice call clarity. This quality has been the same Damn thing since the nokia brick phones lol
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app

Squirrel1620 said:
How about work on voice call clarity. This quality has been the same Damn thing since the nokia brick phones lol
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is in a day I make max 20 min call time but day in day out 4+hours screen time, iyam this is the norm so this dictates developments, so I bet we get stuck with ok call quality.

Euthye said:
The thing is in a day I make max 20 min call time but day in day out 4+hours screen time, iyam this is the norm so this dictates developments, so I bet we get stuck with ok call quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
20 min the norm? Speak for yourself.

j510 said:
20 min the norm? Speak for yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know but how about getting a different phone if your prime use is phoning, like a 2g that'll give you 2/3 days, or if you're making calls while indoors plug it in or use a land line, flagship smartphones are computing devices not really phones any more.

thedalmeny said:
This is likely to be first time in 7 years i haven't upgraded my phone upon a handset refresh.
I'm a terrible phone whore with very little loyalty to brand...!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree that the upgrades in the GS4 are barely a full generation ahead of the GS3, which is unfortunate given how much a jump the GS2 was over the GS1, and how much the GS1 was ahead of anything else at its time... there is a sort-of point about diminishing returns here as well. It's harder to "improve" certain aspects but so much, as we're beginning to hit the limits of what can even be perceived as an upgrade.
I mean, think about the screen. Very low res -> QVGA -> WVGA -> 720p -> 1080p. Well that's great, but for the next generation, where do you go? There's really no perceivable need to put anything higher into a sub 5" device. Maybe flexible screens? Unbreakable screens? etc etc? That's still not gonna actually increase the photonic information presented to your eyes from the device.
Or take the physical phone body. The GS4 is pushing the screen so far that it's easily covering 80-90% of the entire front surface area. So okay, next gen, you make the entire front surface a screen. Then what? Make the phone thinner? Well, at a certain point you hit a limit there as well. People can only grasp and comfortably hold objects of up to a certain depth. When you get it smaller than that, you're basically just printing a screen onto a knife blade. So that's no good...
Let's try connectivity. LTE and 802.11ac? Most cell networks couldn't saturate their LTE links if they tried, they simply don't have the capacity yet. And even if they did... You're telling me you can even find a use-case where your phone is pumping out/in 100+ mbit/s of data? I mean, at home it's nice to move music/videos/files around sure. But I highly doubt anyone is routinely moving gigabytes of data per hour on any sort of mobile device. Once you hit what you need for say HD video streaming... where else is there to go? Again, the next generation doesn't really need to move data any faster than this.
Sensors? Well, there's actually lots of room for improvement here. And also, un-coincidentally, this is where the GS4 has some the of greatest advantage over other current/last generation devices. While we're still pretty far away from a proper tricorder, we can now sense via magnetometer, accelerometer, gyroscope, light sensor, infrared sensor, microphones, thermometer, hydrometer, barometer, and two cameras... But building sensors isn't the hard part. It's building clever software to do something with these sensors.
I could go on further... but the point I should think is clear. Yea, it's a bit disappointing that nothing since the original GS1/GS2 has really been a full "generation and a half" ahead of the competition... but a large portion of that is simply because we're beginning to hit the ceiling with some of these improvements. Yea, in 20 years "phones" will be unpredictably evolved from what we have now. But I bet the screens still won't have any higher effective PPI than what we're approaching now...

nastyhobbits said:
posting to hit 10 posts so I can actually post in development section....wth.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong and wrong.
1) There's a reason you need to post elsewhere first.
2) The fact that you say "what the hell" to that requirement further shows you are not yet ready to post in development.
3) Spamming random unrelated comments into random threads is not the way to reach the 10 post minimum
I suggest you start by reading the rules and the stickies.
Have a nice day, and welcome to XDA.

Im only getting it becuase i wanted a smaller note 2 with no spen. The s4 gives me that with plenty of horsepower. Plus the 32gb $250 price point is a good sell. If the htc one had a replaceable battery it would of been a no brainer based on design alone.

nastyhobbits said:
posting to hit 10 posts so I can actually post in development section....wth.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Face palm* If there's one place where you never post something like that, it's XDA. The moderators here take people who break the rules pretty seriously.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

I wish we could have a revolutionary phone come out like the Galaxy SII did. Even today, Galaxy SII is unsurpassed with performance. Is there any app or game that it can't run? I mean, it came out nearly 2 years ago, and still has not been matched by an app.
I hope Galaxy SV comes in the way of the revolution.

Euthye said:
I know but how about getting a different phone if your prime use is phoning, like a 2g that'll give you 2/3 days, or if you're making calls while indoors plug it in or use a land line, flagship smartphones are computing devices not really phones any more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said my prime use is phone calls. I just said 20 min is not the norm. And again where do you get your information. No matter what phone whether it is a dumb phone or smart phone, one of the main focus of a phone period involves making phone calls. Otherwise it would be called a multimedia device and not a phone.

jahjah440 said:
I wish we could have a revolutionary phone come out like the Galaxy SII did. Even today, Galaxy SII is unsurpassed with performance. Is there any app or game that it can't run? I mean, it came out nearly 2 years ago, and still has not been matched by an app.
I hope Galaxy SV comes in the way of the revolution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, what, lol!
Pretty sure the Gs1 started the trend there. Gs2 was nice, but nothing revolutionary.... The s3 was by far the best in the series thus far, until this one comes out.
With that said, I like my Note 2 more so than my s3.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

I think the Note series has been pretty revolutionary and Samsung has worked hard to come up with clever things to do with the stylus.
I don't know what big hardware improvements are left to do. The one I would like the most is 3-D capabilities, both screen and camera, like the Evo 3D. I would imagine in the last two years the technology has gotten better and Samsung could market it a lot better than HTC. Plus there is more 3D content than two years ago. Samsung could also do cool things with 3D and the hover technology.

j510 said:
I never said my prime use is phone calls. I just said 20 min is not the norm. And again where do you get your information. No matter what phone whether it is a dumb phone or smart phone, one of the main focus of a phone period involves making phone calls. Otherwise it would be called a multimedia device and not a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah well tough break, I guess this phone isn't for you then.

Shammyh said:
While I agree that the upgrades in the GS4 are barely a full generation ahead of the GS3, which is unfortunate given how much a jump the GS2 was over the GS1, and how much the GS1 was ahead of anything else at its time... there is a sort-of point about diminishing returns here as well. It's harder to "improve" certain aspects but so much, as we're beginning to hit the limits of what can even be perceived as an upgrade.
I mean, think about the screen. Very low res -> QVGA -> WVGA -> 720p -> 1080p. Well that's great, but for the next generation, where do you go? There's really no perceivable need to put anything higher into a sub 5" device. Maybe flexible screens? Unbreakable screens? etc etc? That's still not gonna actually increase the photonic information presented to your eyes from the device.
Or take the physical phone body. The GS4 is pushing the screen so far that it's easily covering 80-90% of the entire front surface area. So okay, next gen, you make the entire front surface a screen. Then what? Make the phone thinner? Well, at a certain point you hit a limit there as well. People can only grasp and comfortably hold objects of up to a certain depth. When you get it smaller than that, you're basically just printing a screen onto a knife blade. So that's no good...
Let's try connectivity. LTE and 802.11ac? Most cell networks couldn't saturate their LTE links if they tried, they simply don't have the capacity yet. And even if they did... You're telling me you can even find a use-case where your phone is pumping out/in 100+ mbit/s of data? I mean, at home it's nice to move music/videos/files around sure. But I highly doubt anyone is routinely moving gigabytes of data per hour on any sort of mobile device. Once you hit what you need for say HD video streaming... where else is there to go? Again, the next generation doesn't really need to move data any faster than this.
Sensors? Well, there's actually lots of room for improvement here. And also, un-coincidentally, this is where the GS4 has some the of greatest advantage over other current/last generation devices. While we're still pretty far away from a proper tricorder, we can now sense via magnetometer, accelerometer, gyroscope, light sensor, infrared sensor, microphones, thermometer, hydrometer, barometer, and two cameras... But building sensors isn't the hard part. It's building clever software to do something with these sensors.
I could go on further... but the point I should think is clear. Yea, it's a bit disappointing that nothing since the original GS1/GS2 has really been a full "generation and a half" ahead of the competition... but a large portion of that is simply because we're beginning to hit the ceiling with some of these improvements. Yea, in 20 years "phones" will be unpredictably evolved from what we have now. But I bet the screens still won't have any higher effective PPI than what we're approaching now...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree about LTE. That 100mbs conection is shared across possibly 100's of users and it does not take alot to bring it down to it's knees.
Video of sub 500kbs LTE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-VVwPqhXwI
That and really 2,3,4,5,10 GB is not really that much data if you plan using the LTE speeds fully. If I didn't have a unlimited plan, my bill would be higher in a month than what my phone cost.
I will say your right about the screen 1080p is good, well really for most 720p does the trick. ( I can still see the dot's on a 720p 4.3in screen though, but most can't.)

sms - Message Failed. Would you like to retry

Ever since Updating to the official MM RUU posted in these forums I, and others are stating that they have been getting the following message:
Sending SMS messages
Message failed. Would you like to retry?
Deny Allow
(attached)
I aim opening this in an attempt to try and ascertain what the issue could be. As Nobody seems to have an answer in what limited fashion I asked.
This is on the Official firmware RUU by dottat ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...pment/stock-m-firmware-nand-recovery-t3330972 ).
It was stated elsewhere that this matter was resolved by another dev, but am unable to determine how possibly that was done
This easily happens multiple times a day if I text frequently

carm01 said:
Ever since Updating to the official MM RUU posted in these forums I, and others are stating that they have been getting the following message:
Sending SMS messages
Message failed. Would you like to retry?
Deny Allow
(attached)
I aim opening this in an attempt to try and ascertain what the issue could be. As Nobody seems to have an answer in what limited fashion I asked.
This is on the Official firmware RUU by dottat ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...pment/stock-m-firmware-nand-recovery-t3330972 ).
It was stated elsewhere that this matter was resolved by another dev, but am unable to determine how possibly that was done
This easily happens multiple times a day if I text frequently
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's odd.
That happened to me before I updated, updating with the ruu fixed it. That was my fix personally, maybe try redownloading the ruu and trying again? I used the first ruu posted by dottat when the marshmallow update dropped.

BadUsername said:
That's odd.
That happened to me before I updated, updating with the ruu fixed it. That was my fix personally, maybe try redownloading the ruu and trying again? I used the first ruu posted by dottat when the marshmallow update dropped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did the RUU, and set it back up. Needless to say this permission garbage in MM is for the birds. I reverted to NEO's rom, and low and behold that message reared its ugly head again. I am beginning to think it is firmware related.
Since I am on my second and last M8 both due to charging port failures I have decided to abandon the M8 permanently, as it is at the end of its life anyways and not worth getting another, and MM has been a horrible experience honestly.. i thought windows 10 permissions were bad
Best Regards

carm01 said:
I did the RUU, and set it back up. Needless to say this permission garbage in MM is for the birds. I reverted to NEO's rom, and low and behold that message reared its ugly head again. I am beginning to think it is firmware related.
Since I am on my second and last M8 both due to charging port failures I have decided to abandon the M8 permanently, as it is at the end of its life anyways and not worth getting another, and MM has been a horrible experience honestly.. i thought windows 10 permissions were bad
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya I'm not sure what to say, I replaced the charging port on mine myself, not a hard fix at all. $12 for the port, $5 for spudger, $9 for the all-in-one screwdriver, and $5 for antistatic tweezers. Though for approximately $40 it may not be worth it to you. I'm hoping the next htc phone has an IR blaster, so I'm going to run this device into the ground.
But I have no idea what could be causing your sms issues. My guess it would have to be firmware related, possibly area specific. On stock I haven't really noticed any problems.

BadUsername said:
Ya I'm not sure what to say, I replaced the charging port on mine myself, not a hard fix at all. $12 for the port, $5 for spudger, $9 for the all-in-one screwdriver, and $5 for antistatic tweezers. Though for approximately $40 it may not be worth it to you. I'm hoping the next htc phone has an IR blaster, so I'm going to run this device into the ground.
But I have no idea what could be causing your sms issues. My guess it would have to be firmware related, possibly area specific. On stock I haven't really noticed any problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC 10 has no IR blaster.
I'm a bit upset myself about this but I honestly didn't use it much.

andybones said:
The HTC 10 has no IR blaster.
I'm a bit upset myself about this but I honestly didn't use it much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it doesn't, I love my IR blaster, I hate having my normal TV remote and it's nice having sole access to my TV through my phone.

BadUsername said:
Ya I'm not sure what to say, I replaced the charging port on mine myself, not a hard fix at all. $12 for the port, $5 for spudger, $9 for the all-in-one screwdriver, and $5 for antistatic tweezers. Though for approximately $40 it may not be worth it to you. I'm hoping the next htc phone has an IR blaster, so I'm going to run this device into the ground.
But I have no idea what could be causing your sms issues. My guess it would have to be firmware related, possibly area specific. On stock I haven't really noticed any problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know I just want a phone that works. I never had issues with any of my other HTC phones and charging port failures. I know its easy, but why fool with it if HTC is not going to support their phones for more than 2 years?
I love HTC phones but their 2 year support life span, and slow updates is frustrating to me. its like dropping 300 to 400 or more every two years for a phone just to stay current with security issues/fixes.

carm01 said:
You know I just want a phone that works. I never had issues with any of my other HTC phones and charging port failures. I know its easy, but why fool with it if HTC is not going to support their phones for more than 2 years?
I love HTC phones but their 2 year support life span, and slow updates is frustrating to me. its like dropping 300 to 400 or more every two years for a phone just to stay current with security issues/fixes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your point, but what phone do you know of that is supported over 2 years?
Hardware failures in my opinion simply happen. Wear and tear on a device takes its toll. The only phone that I know have that have better support is an iPhone. Even then, the device you purchase won't be supported after a few years at most. I've also seen some terrible hardware failures associated with them as well.
I understand not wanting to fix it, but after my charging port broke, I just figured it was worth it to me to replace it myself. I like everything about this phone.

BadUsername said:
I understand your point, but what phone do you know of that is supported over 2 years?
Hardware failures in my opinion simply happen. Wear and tear on a device takes its toll. The only phone that I know have that have better support is an iPhone. Even then, the device you purchase won't be supported after a few years at most. I've also seen some terrible hardware failures associated with them as well.
I understand not wanting to fix it, but after my charging port broke, I just figured it was worth it to me to replace it myself. I like everything about this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All my devices I take excellent care of. Always cased, screen protectors, never; well extremely rarely dropped. If it was not for the lack of support, and red camera garbage i would still be using my m7 as it is still perfect, just no support.
As far as iphone goes. They have software support for 5 years on average, and they hold their value very well. i decided to go with an 6S and it is ungodly fast and responsive. I know some are going to curse me, but it is my choice. I got free WIFI calling and VOLTE. Anyways I got 12 more days to decide before the purchase is final. I understand certain things about it and was aware before I made my decision
I would have gone with the moto pure, however i do not want a phablet, I want something i can hold and work on in one hand. If the M7 was supported I would still be using it ( that damn red or yellow camera crap is annoying blunder that HTC seriously dropped the ball on ).
I would have chose nexus 5x but I found out the USC-C is 2.0 speed, and limited to 32 gigs
Anyways

carm01 said:
All my devices I take excellent care of. Always cased, screen protectors, never; well extremely rarely dropped. If it was not for the lack of support, and red camera garbage i would still be using my m7 as it is still perfect, just no support.
As far as iphone goes. They have software support for 5 years on average, and they hold their value very well. i decided to go with an 6S and it is ungodly fast and responsive. I know some are going to curse me, but it is my choice. I got free WIFI calling and VOLTE. Anyways I got 12 more days to decide before the purchase is final. I understand certain things about it and was aware before I made my decision
I would have gone with the moto pure, however i do not want a phablet, I want something i can hold and work on in one hand. If the M7 was supported I would still be using it ( that damn red or yellow camera crap is annoying blunder that HTC seriously dropped the ball on ).
I would have chose nexus 5x but I found out the USC-C is 2.0 speed, and limited to 32 gigs
Anyways
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, nobody is going to grill you for getting a 6s.
Yes, software support is definitely a reason to get an iphone. I just don't agree with their premium pricing for their handsets and their closed sourced software. Not much innovation going on there, but not everyone needs something that's more than that. I just think you're paying an absurd amount for something that you can't customize at all, not to mention lack of storage space and inferior specs compared to newer android models. And yes I know, specs aren't everything, but truthfully you're paying a lot more for a lot less.
Reasons to get an android revolve around customization and truly being able to change any aspect of your phone. I think with the new doze feature and the improvements google is probably going to make to it, it's going to blow apple out of the water in terms of battery life and overall efficiency. Pretty exciting stuff, it's nice being able to set my phone down at work, pick it up for lunch and having it at 90% battery, despite it being over 2 years old. It's also much easier to fix problems that arise with them, if you're having a problem with your iphone regarding anything related to this there is literally no way to fix it yourself. Take it to the apple store and have them tell you something along the lines of, "sorry, we're unable to revert your phone back to the previous version that worked, but I think we should try a factory reset, have you tried that yet?" like you have no idea how to operate it in the first place . It makes me laugh and frustrates me that there's literally no way to apply any of my knowledge regarding ADB and linux to fix an iphone. If someone comes to me about a problem with their phone, I always tell them, "Well, if you had an android I could probably fix that issue, but I can't fix an iphone."
The last thing I'd buy an iphone for is hardware quality. A friend of mine had a bent iphone 6, a few months ago. Apple refused to replace it for him even though the phone had no other physical damage to it. Now he's like "wow, you're phone is awesome and you can use it as a TV remote too, maybe I'll get an HTC instead next upgrade." It was bent due their manufacturing issues and quality problems after the initial launch, which to me was very well documented. That also would be something I would consider.
To each his own, however there really isn't much out there that's Verizon compatible that I would tell you to get instead. Main reason I'm not getting a phone this year is because nothing looks worth it in my opinion. Maybe LG won't make such an ugly phone, or HTC will put the IR blaster back and integrate their fingerprint scanner into the power button or something. I just won't buy an iPhone because I don't want to be like everyone else, and I don't want to support a company that locks and discourages development on their devices. If everyone had an iPhone this world would be a pretty sad place, a monopoly on a product that discourages creativity and imagination from the general public. Where would our smartphone technology be without android? I doubt we'd have NFC, IR blasters, HD screens, Micro-sd storage options, etc. Apple would have never put anything in because everyone will buy their phones anyway.
Anyway rant done, iPhone 6s is a good device for what it is. I don't think people here will grill you for getting one, they definitely have some advantages that are nice and that I think would be nice if Android wasn't so fragmented. But that's the price you pay for open source software and many companies making competing products. I wouldn't have it any other way.

BadUsername said:
Haha, nobody is going to grill you for getting a 6s.
Yes, software support is definitely a reason to get an iphone. I just don't agree with their premium pricing for their handsets and their closed sourced software. Not much innovation going on there, but not everyone needs something that's more than that. I just think you're paying an absurd amount for something that you can't customize at all, not to mention lack of storage space and inferior specs compared to newer android models. And yes I know, specs aren't everything, but truthfully you're paying a lot more for a lot less.
Reasons to get an android revolve around customization and truly being able to change any aspect of your phone. I think with the new doze feature and the improvements google is probably going to make to it, it's going to blow apple out of the water in terms of battery life and overall efficiency. Pretty exciting stuff, it's nice being able to set my phone down at work, pick it up for lunch and having it at 90% battery, despite it being over 2 years old. It's also much easier to fix problems that arise with them, if you're having a problem with your iphone regarding anything related to this there is literally no way to fix it yourself. Take it to the apple store and have them tell you something along the lines of, "sorry, we're unable to revert your phone back to the previous version that worked, but I think we should try a factory reset, have you tried that yet?" like you have no idea how to operate it in the first place . It makes me laugh and frustrates me that there's literally no way to apply any of my knowledge regarding ADB and linux to fix an iphone. If someone comes to me about a problem with their phone, I always tell them, "Well, if you had an android I could probably fix that issue, but I can't fix an iphone."
The last thing I'd buy an iphone for is hardware quality. A friend of mine had a bent iphone 6, a few months ago. Apple refused to replace it for him even though the phone had no other physical damage to it. Now he's like "wow, you're phone is awesome and you can use it as a TV remote too, maybe I'll get an HTC instead next upgrade." It was bent due their manufacturing issues and quality problems after the initial launch, which to me was very well documented. That also would be something I would consider.
To each his own, however there really isn't much out there that's Verizon compatible that I would tell you to get instead. Main reason I'm not getting a phone this year is because nothing looks worth it in my opinion. Maybe LG won't make such an ugly phone, or HTC will put the IR blaster back and integrate their fingerprint scanner into the power button or something. I just won't buy an iPhone because I don't want to be like everyone else, and I don't want to support a company that locks and discourages development on their devices. If everyone had an iPhone this world would be a pretty sad place, a monopoly on a product that discourages creativity and imagination from the general public. Where would our smartphone technology be without android? I doubt we'd have NFC, IR blasters, HD screens, Micro-sd storage options, etc. Apple would have never put anything in because everyone will buy their phones anyway.
Anyway rant done, iPhone 6s is a good device for what it is. I don't think people here will grill you for getting one, they definitely have some advantages that are nice and that I think would be nice if Android wasn't so fragmented. But that's the price you pay for open source software and many companies making competing products. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I understand all your concerns, and I am with you on the price, and it will be one of the deciding factors as well as Itunes which I am finding most frustrating to use to add files to the device. So i got a few days to think about it.

A Journey - From Note 4 to the LG US996

Note 4 Story
Why this thread? Short background - I am building a '61 Chevy Bubbletop, and have a thread in a Chevy fourm that I have been posting pics, etc. Have had a lot of interest and helpful feedback. I thought it would be fun, and maybe helpful to some (maybe even me), so here goes.
I will have the phone in hand Monday. So first, background on my Note 4, and what I'm hoping to experience with the V20.
I have come to the point that I prefer to not install ROMs. I find that typically, no matter how great and stable everyone says a ROM is, it always has some issue of some kind. (Of course even stock ones do to).
So I went a long time w/o rooting or applying a ROM. I finally just had to have root. So I sold my AT&T Note 4 (couldn't root it), and purchased a T-Mobile Note 4 which could be rooted. I rooted it and used like that for quite a while.
I am one that uses a LOT of apps. (The phone is to use, no?) And with that comes more memory use, and lag. The phone got so laggy I just had to try a ROM. I tried 2-3 with varying success. I finally tried Maximum Overdrive's ROM for the Note 4 (he is now working on a ROM for the V20).
It was like a different phone. Fairly fast, not near as much lag. It has allowed me to extend the life of the phone over the past year. In fact, it works well enough that I wonder how smart I am spending several hundred dollars for a new phone.
So why the new phone? I moved to Florida a year and half ago, and AT&T's data here sucks ripe lemons. I'm going to move to Verizon. (My daughter has them, and we have compared speeds etc., and Verizon is much better here).
Choosing the V20
It has been a few months that I have been on the watch for my next phone. I won't bore you with the long story of that...just a few details.
One of my 'must haves' for the next phone was to have 6GB of memory...due to my high application load. Over time my highest priority switch from 6GB of memory to capability to use a phone on both GSM and CDMA (read that AT&T/Verizon) networks. That way I can tergiversate regarding carriers.
So, some of my top phone choices dropped off the list. In fact, pretty much all of them except for the US996.
Concerns
I do have a few concerns about the V20 that I hope will be alleviated quickly:
Battery - I've been reading posts regarding battery and it does not sound good. Since moving to the Max Overdrive ROM on the Note 4, my battery is unbelievable. I'd hate to go downhill with this phone. This may be something that necessiates rooting.
Camera Lens - I'm sure everyone knows why this is a concern
Performance - I read, for the most part, that this phone performs well. But I also read a lot of complaints about LAG. Ugh...my high app use may make this a likely scenario for me
Camera - I see some complaints about low light pics. But I've seen a lot of praise for the camera as well
Initial Plans
Once I get all apps installed, and data imported/restored for those that need it, I plan to use it stock for at least 30 days and see how it goes. Depending on how it goes, especially related to the concerns above, I'll either keep it and move forward, or return it.
I'll start out with it on AT&T. May hold off moving to Verizon until I pass the 30 day return availablility.
Rooting
I would really like to root the phone. But, as that the only way to unlock the bootloader is via the LG site for this phone, I don't know if I will or not...at least this early with the phone. Why does that make a difference? Will lose warranty, as they indicate that on the LG site where you go to get it unlocked.
Apply Rom?
Given that there is a Maximum Overdrive rom for the V20, you'd think I would want to put that on. Actually, this is true...but he is only making one for the 918, as that is the phone he has. So, I will miss out on that honey.
I have read some positive info on a couple others out there, but do see constant issues, even with just rooting. It's not near as smooth as a Samsung (I base that opinion on the issues I see here vs. have experienced with the Samsung). So, I'm skittish about doing anything to it. Given the 996 unlocking flags the phone as out of warranty, I fear that a bricked phone will be a several hundred dollar loss.
Summary
So, looking forward to getting the phone and seeing how it goes, and having fun communicating here about the journey.

ewingr said:
Note 4 Story
Why this thread? Short background - I am building a '61 Chevy Bubbletop, and have a thread in a Chevy fourm that I have been posting pics, etc. Have had a lot of interest and helpful feedback. I thought it would be fun, and maybe helpful to some (maybe even me), so here goes.
I will have the phone in hand Monday. So first, background on my Note 4, and what I'm hoping to experience with the V20.
I have come to the point that I prefer to not install ROMs. I find that typically, no matter how great and stable everyone says a ROM is, it always has some issue of some kind. (Of course even stock ones do to).
So I went a long time w/o rooting or applying a ROM. I finally just had to have root. So I sold my AT&T Note 4 (couldn't root it), and purchased a T-Mobile Note 4 which could be rooted. I rooted it and used like that for quite a while.
I am one that uses a LOT of apps. (The phone is to use, no?) And with that comes more memory use, and lag. The phone got so laggy I just had to try a ROM. I tried 2-3 with varying success. I finally tried Maximum Overdrive's ROM for the Note 4 (he is now working on a ROM for the V20).
It was like a different phone. Fairly fast, not near as much lag. It has allowed me to extend the life of the phone over the past year. In fact, it works well enough that I wonder how smart I am spending several hundred dollars for a new phone.
So why the new phone? I moved to Florida a year and half ago, and AT&T's data here sucks ripe lemons. I'm going to move to Verizon. (My daughter has them, and we have compared speeds etc., and Verizon is much better here).
Choosing the V20
It has been a few months that I have been on the watch for my next phone. I won't bore you with the long story of that...just a few details.
One of my 'must haves' for the next phone was to have 6GB of memory...due to my high application load. Over time my highest priority switch from 6GB of memory to capability to use a phone on both GSM and CDMA (read that AT&T/Verizon) networks. That way I can tergiversate regarding carriers.
So, some of my top phone choices dropped off the list. In fact, pretty much all of them except for the US996.
Concerns
I do have a few concerns about the V20 that I hope will be alleviated quickly:
Battery - I've been reading posts regarding battery and it does not sound good. Since moving to the Max Overdrive ROM on the Note 4, my battery is unbelievable. I'd hate to go downhill with this phone. This may be something that necessiates rooting.
Camera Lens - I'm sure everyone knows why this is a concern
Performance - I read, for the most part, that this phone performs well. But I also read a lot of complaints about LAG. Ugh...my high app use may make this a likely scenario for me
Camera - I see some complaints about low light pics. But I've seen a lot of praise for the camera as well
Initial Plans
Once I get all apps installed, and data imported/restored for those that need it, I plan to use it stock for at least 30 days and see how it goes. Depending on how it goes, especially related to the concerns above, I'll either keep it and move forward, or return it.
I'll start out with it on AT&T. May hold off moving to Verizon until I pass the 30 day return availablility.
Rooting
I would really like to root the phone. But, as that the only way to unlock the bootloader is via the LG site for this phone, I don't know if I will or not...at least this early with the phone. Why does that make a difference? Will lose warranty, as they indicate that on the LG site where you go to get it unlocked.
Apply Rom?
Given that there is a Maximum Overdrive rom for the V20, you'd think I would want to put that on. Actually, this is true...but he is only making one for the 918, as that is the phone he has. So, I will miss out on that honey.
I have read some positive info on a couple others out there, but do see constant issues, even with just rooting. It's not near as smooth as a Samsung (I base that opinion on the issues I see here vs. have experienced with the Samsung). So, I'm skittish about doing anything to it. Given the 996 unlocking flags the phone as out of warranty, I fear that a bricked phone will be a several hundred dollar loss.
Summary
So, looking forward to getting the phone and seeing how it goes, and having fun communicating here about the journey.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just so you know att only has a 14 day return policy

jerrycoffman45 said:
just so you know att only has a 14 day return policy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know. I purchased from B&H Photo. Besides. AT&T doesn't sell the 996, I don't think.
But thanks for the warning. Had I purchase it from them, and expected 30 days, it would have been a pain to learn the hard way that I can't return it if I decide to.

I had the Note 3, 4 then 7 and this phone is larger than all 3. I just recently switched from Sprint and traded in my s7 edge for the V20 and I am happy so far. I purchased a OtterBox Defender case for the phone and with it installed I no longer have any worries of the camera glass, the case is very solid. Plus I left the factory plastic on the camera which people say will help if the phone was to be dropped.
Good luck!

I had been anxiously awaiting the Note 7. At the time 6GB memory was the top of my 'must have' list. So, when it came with 4GB, I was disappointed and decided to watch for a while. Then we know what happened.
I've actually been very interested in chasing some of the better priced competitors, such as Axon 7 or OnePlus 3t. But both the cameras were rated poorly, and then are GSM only.
But, I'm getting tired of these $800 prices. Rumor now is 1K for the Samsung 8.
I ended up purchasing an open box V20 from B&H, has full factory warranty. Got it for 675, no tax, no shipping.
ON the case, I have been using a Bestbuy PLatinum case, which comes with a belt clipped holster, and a kickstand in the case itself. Been great for me. Coming from IT and needing the phone on my at all times, and not wanting to fight the pocket, I used that.
Turns out it is made by Seido, and they have the same for the V20. It arrived from Amazon today. I'll add some pics when I get the phone and get it set up.
This story will continue. Hopefully it will be a pleasant one.

ewingr said:
Note 4 Story
Why this thread? Short background - I am building a '61 Chevy Bubbletop, and have a thread in a Chevy fourm that I have been posting pics, etc. Have had a lot of interest and helpful feedback. I thought it would be fun, and maybe helpful to some (maybe even me), so here goes.
I will have the phone in hand Monday. So first, background on my Note 4, and what I'm hoping to experience with the V20.
I have come to the point that I prefer to not install ROMs. I find that typically, no matter how great and stable everyone says a ROM is, it always has some issue of some kind. (Of course even stock ones do to).
So I went a long time w/o rooting or applying a ROM. I finally just had to have root. So I sold my AT&T Note 4 (couldn't root it), and purchased a T-Mobile Note 4 which could be rooted. I rooted it and used like that for quite a while.
I am one that uses a LOT of apps. (The phone is to use, no?) And with that comes more memory use, and lag. The phone got so laggy I just had to try a ROM. I tried 2-3 with varying success. I finally tried Maximum Overdrive's ROM for the Note 4 (he is now working on a ROM for the V20).
It was like a different phone. Fairly fast, not near as much lag. It has allowed me to extend the life of the phone over the past year. In fact, it works well enough that I wonder how smart I am spending several hundred dollars for a new phone.
So why the new phone? I moved to Florida a year and half ago, and AT&T's data here sucks ripe lemons. I'm going to move to Verizon. (My daughter has them, and we have compared speeds etc., and Verizon is much better here).
Choosing the V20
It has been a few months that I have been on the watch for my next phone. I won't bore you with the long story of that...just a few details.
One of my 'must haves' for the next phone was to have 6GB of memory...due to my high application load. Over time my highest priority switch from 6GB of memory to capability to use a phone on both GSM and CDMA (read that AT&T/Verizon) networks. That way I can tergiversate regarding carriers.
So, some of my top phone choices dropped off the list. In fact, pretty much all of them except for the US996.
Concerns
I do have a few concerns about the V20 that I hope will be alleviated quickly:
Battery - I've been reading posts regarding battery and it does not sound good. Since moving to the Max Overdrive ROM on the Note 4, my battery is unbelievable. I'd hate to go downhill with this phone. This may be something that necessiates rooting.
Camera Lens - I'm sure everyone knows why this is a concern
Performance - I read, for the most part, that this phone performs well. But I also read a lot of complaints about LAG. Ugh...my high app use may make this a likely scenario for me
Camera - I see some complaints about low light pics. But I've seen a lot of praise for the camera as well
Initial Plans
Once I get all apps installed, and data imported/restored for those that need it, I plan to use it stock for at least 30 days and see how it goes. Depending on how it goes, especially related to the concerns above, I'll either keep it and move forward, or return it.
I'll start out with it on AT&T. May hold off moving to Verizon until I pass the 30 day return availablility.
Rooting
I would really like to root the phone. But, as that the only way to unlock the bootloader is via the LG site for this phone, I don't know if I will or not...at least this early with the phone. Why does that make a difference? Will lose warranty, as they indicate that on the LG site where you go to get it unlocked.
Apply Rom?
Given that there is a Maximum Overdrive rom for the V20, you'd think I would want to put that on. Actually, this is true...but he is only making one for the 918, as that is the phone he has. So, I will miss out on that honey.
I have read some positive info on a couple others out there, but do see constant issues, even with just rooting. It's not near as smooth as a Samsung (I base that opinion on the issues I see here vs. have experienced with the Samsung). So, I'm skittish about doing anything to it. Given the 996 unlocking flags the phone as out of warranty, I fear that a bricked phone will be a several hundred dollar loss.
Summary
So, looking forward to getting the phone and seeing how it goes, and having fun communicating here about the journey.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About Battery>> Remember that a) you will be dealing with a phone with IPS screen instead of AMOLED (this has a huge impact on the battery). b)the amount of apps that you have (specially those that requires to sync in the background are often part of the issue of battery drainage (my v20 used to last up to 7+ or 8+ with screen on with just about 7 user apps and the rest system apps, now i have 85 user apps + the system apps which make my phone last about 5+ hours screen on). On the other hand, The Doze mode of this phone is INSANE!!!! OUTSTANDING! With screen off your phone can easily last a day or even two (if you like to listen to music with pandora or Spotify >>> it will still last a lot with screen off).
About Camera Lens>> This is just an opinion but im starting to believe that the camera lens sensitivity is just to a small percent of the stock. Believe me when i tell you that i have throw my phone so hard to the wall (by accident) and with that kind of pressure (even with the poetic revolution cover) it should have made the glass of the camera crack (not to mention my phone has fell a lot). On the other hand, do not remove the plastic it comes with , just to be safe.
About Performance>> The phone is fast but just like any other phone, regardless of the processor, or the amount of ram, it has its limits. Thus, at the beginning i had a blazing fast LG V20. But put 85 user apps inside any phone and see how this will change lol. IT still fast. But every once in a while i experience a little lag. But that is just when i have only 500+mb left of ram. ( how can i know my ram quickly? OvrDrive Rom has the ram bar)
About Camera>> The camera does become slower when you are at very dark environments. But many report, including me, that using manual mode and adjusting it to your liking will make it very fast. I believe the issue is the automatic mode. Although sometimes for me the automatic mode in the dark works great. Also, some people report their photos looking like water paint (it does happen to me only with the wide angle camera. Not very often, but it does)
Now, if you are looking for developments and all that, this phone seems to be going in the right direction. We pretty much have root for every variant, we have some custom stock roms, and also we have LineageOS, Resurrection Remix, and AOKP among others so far for almost every variants.

Appreciate the input. We'll see how my experience goes.
I have a comment/reply or two in blue down in the quote of your response.
jinkerz9430 said:
About Battery>> Remember that a) you will be dealing with a phone with IPS screen instead of AMOLED (this has a huge impact on the battery). b)the amount of apps that you have (specially those that requires to sync in the background are often part of the issue of battery drainage (my v20 used to last up to 7+ or 8+ with screen on with just about 7 user apps and the rest system apps, now i have 85 user apps + the system apps which make my phone last about 5+ hours screen on). On the other hand, The Doze mode of this phone is INSANE!!!! OUTSTANDING! With screen off your phone can easily last a day or even two (if you like to listen to music with pandora or Spotify >>> it will still last a lot with screen off).
Yup. All understood. My comparison will be to my almost 3 year old Note 4. It has all the apps I will have on the V20, Doze mode (Max Overdrive ROM), etc. This has a just barely smaller battery than the Note 4 (which is disappointing...would prefer a fatter phone with fatter battery). So, I would hope the processer is more efficient, and in the end, at least as good on battery as my Note 4.
About Camera Lens>> This is just an opinion but im starting to believe that the camera lens sensitivity is just to a small percent of the stock. Believe me when i tell you that i have throw my phone so hard to the wall (by accident) and with that kind of pressure (even with the poetic revolution cover) it should have made the glass of the camera crack (not to mention my phone has fell a lot). On the other hand, do not remove the plastic it comes with , just to be safe.
I will definitely have the phone in cases. Hopefully I'll have same experience as you.
About Performance>> The phone is fast but just like any other phone, regardless of the processor, or the amount of ram, it has its limits. Thus, at the beginning i had a blazing fast LG V20. But put 85 user apps inside any phone and see how this will change lol. IT still fast. But every once in a while i experience a little lag. But that is just when i have only 500+mb left of ram. ( how can i know my ram quickly? OvrDrive Rom has the ram bar)
I'm sure it has it's limits. I do abuse them, with lots of apps. MOre than 85, I'm sure. I do have a tendency to freeze apps I don't use often. But of course that requires root. With the Maximum Overdrive ROM on my Note 4, the lags aren't too bad. I'm thinking (hoping) that this phone will shine in comparison to my Note 4 with the better specs.
About Camera>> The camera does become slower when you are at very dark environments. But many report, including me, that using manual mode and adjusting it to your liking will make it very fast. I believe the issue is the automatic mode. Although sometimes for me the automatic mode in the dark works great. Also, some people report their photos looking like water paint (it does happen to me only with the wide angle camera. Not very often, but it does)
I use some modes other than automatic on my Canon. I'm excited to see the capabilities of the camera on this phone. With an understanding of shutter and aperture as an advantage, maybe I'll be very happy with it.
Now, if you are looking for developments and all that, this phone seems to be going in the right direction. We pretty much have root for every variant, we have some custom stock roms, and also we have LineageOS, Resurrection Remix, and AOKP among others so far for almost every variants.
If only Overdrive developed for the 996, I would know what ROM to use. I will likely hold off on ROMS for a while. I still see lots of folks struggling with the ROMS and reporting issues or help needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tomorrow...the journey begins

SHAMELESS PLUG, to remind everyone that not everyone has 800$ to throw at a phone upfront.
I was in your boat. I had my eyes dead set on the US996.
Did my research and ended up on the H918.
Look at the ROM development, it's flooded with H918 support.
Will the US996 pick up traction and have as much support as the H918? Who knows.
I even wanted the dual sim, but that isn't even rooted if my memory serves correctly.
Regardless, this phone is stellar.
WETA rom has an US996 version, which I'd definitely recommend. I have my eyes on Max Overdrive, NATF and Resurrection remix, but after flashing WETA, i wouldn't change a thing.
Best of luck to you, m9.

Thanks for the best luck wishes.
I am seeing more dev for the 996. I am hopeful that I'll be happy with it stock. Although, I really want Root, so I may give in.
One thing for sure, it is confusing having all various models in the same forums, and most folks don't indicate which model they are on.

ewingr said:
Appreciate the input. We'll see how my experience goes.
I have a comment/reply or two in blue down in the quote of your response.
Tomorrow...the journey begins
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i would say that Max ovrdrive and Weta are the 2 most stable ones regarding stock roms. Have you tried to talk with OvrDrive ? The h918 and US996 are pretty much alike in all the aspects except some frequencies added to the us996. Maybe you can be a tester for the us996 version. But yeah, first try the phone for a while without any root until the 14 days or possibly some more days are over. If you decide to keep it, then you can jump into the v20's board lol . By the way, you said that you rather a fatter phone? I have seen some battery replacements from third party brands such as zero lemon (which is usually a great brand that produces great batteries) their batteries have way more mah than the original battery from the v20. But it comes with a cost that you might get along with them. It requires to put a very fat case to the phone. I personally dont like it but if you dont care about how fat it looks then you coupd go for it.

I didn't personally talk to Overdrive, but it was asked in his thread of his ROM would work on the 996, and his reply was he would not be supporting it as he does not have one. I too have noticed that ROMs are working on more than one model.
I'll wait and see how the stock battery works out before I go try a fatter one. I'm hoping to stay in the Seido case and belt clip I had already purchased.

Good news/Bad news
Bad news first...but not that bad
I won't have the phone in hand until late Thursday, instead of today
Now the great news
I'll have a brand new phone instead of open big phone, and will sane $175.
I went to Phandroid a bit ago and they announced a sale of the V20 at B&H for $499.99. I had paid $675 for the open box. I called B&H to see if they would refund the difference. Nope. Buy the sale phone and return the open box phone.
Fine with me ?

ewingr said:
Bad news first...but not that bad
I won't have the phone in hand until late Thursday, instead of today
Now the great news
I'll have a brand new phone instead of open big phone, and will sane $175.
I went to Phandroid a bit ago and they announced a sale of the V20 at B&H for $499.99. I had paid $675 for the open box. I called B&H to see if they would refund the difference. Nope. Buy the sale phone and return the open box phone.
Fine with me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my v20's price was practically speaking $331 dollars Brand new sealed . Because of the promotion of the $200 off and the earphone of $149 plus an extra earphone ($149) sent to me from the defective lg v20 returned. I think im going to finish of paying by the 27 of this month

tl;dr version: If I see a US996 for sale that says it "only works with US Cellular" do I take the seller's word for it, or do I know better that the US996 is unlocked for all carriers if you have the right SIM card?
"I've got time" version:
I too am considering a journey from a Note 4 to a US996.
I'm on Verizon, and I just dropped my Note 4 Dev Edition (not that the DE means anything now that the BL unlock was released), cracking the LCD and rendering the digitizer useless. A new(ish) Note 4 is around $200... so I wouldn't bother replacing the screen on my otherwise well-used phone. PS... The phone was in a case, in a belt holster (Spigen Slim Armor / Seidio respectively) and a tempered glass screen protector. ugh.
If it wasn't obvious from my owning a Developer Edition phone... I like to have an unlocked bootloader and root. I had CM13 installed on the Note 4 because TouchWiz was so far behind in a lot of ways. So, I'm considering a V20. I'd rather spend a little more and get a phone that has a SUPPORTED BL unlock method. The Verizon V20 version can be BL unlocked via a hack with a debug bootloader, but it's irreversible and that may lead to issues with being painted into a corner. Enter the US996.
So, I started researching the V20, making sure that there was stable bootloader unlock method, the dev base for ROMs is strong, the reviews are good, etc... and I came across some sales that say that the phone is ONLY for US Cellular. Is this true? The US996 is the unlocked version, correct?
I tried to navigate LG's and USC's websites to get a model number and some info... but I'm not seeing it. Could US Cellular have somehow SIM-locked the phone so that only USC's SIMs work in it? Or... does the seller just not know any better, or wants to play it safe by saying it will only work with the carrier listed?
Thanks for the help! Also... anyone switching from the Note 4, please let me know what you miss. I use my stylus a lot for drawing or annotating on pictures and screenshots... so I think it will be the hardest thing to give up if I go to a V20 or other stylus-less phone.

DrPhant0m said:
tl;dr version: If I see a US996 for sale that says it "only works with US Cellular" do I take the seller's word for it, or do I know better that the US996 is unlocked for all carriers if you have the right SIM card?
"I've got time" version:
I too am considering a journey from a Note 4 to a US996.
I'm on Verizon, and I just dropped my Note 4 Dev Edition (not that the DE means anything now that the BL unlock was released), cracking the LCD and rendering the digitizer useless. A new(ish) Note 4 is around $200... so I wouldn't bother replacing the screen on my otherwise well-used phone. PS... The phone was in a case, in a belt holster (Spigen Slim Armor / Seidio respectively) and a tempered glass screen protector. ugh.
If it wasn't obvious from my owning a Developer Edition phone... I like to have an unlocked bootloader and root. I had CM13 installed on the Note 4 because TouchWiz was so far behind in a lot of ways. So, I'm considering a V20. I'd rather spend a little more and get a phone that has a SUPPORTED BL unlock method. The Verizon V20 version can be BL unlocked via a hack with a debug bootloader, but it's irreversible and that may lead to issues with being painted into a corner. Enter the US996.
So, I started researching the V20, making sure that there was stable bootloader unlock method, the dev base for ROMs is strong, the reviews are good, etc... and I came across some sales that say that the phone is ONLY for US Cellular. Is this true? The US996 is the unlocked version, correct?
I tried to navigate LG's and USC's websites to get a model number and some info... but I'm not seeing it. Could US Cellular have somehow SIM-locked the phone so that only USC's SIMs work in it? Or... does the seller just not know any better, or wants to play it safe by saying it will only work with the carrier listed?
Thanks for the help! Also... anyone switching from the Note 4, please let me know what you miss. I use my stylus a lot for drawing or annotating on pictures and screenshots... so I think it will be the hardest thing to give up if I go to a V20 or other stylus-less phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what to say. Can you link the one you are looking at? I think by only work with US Cellular, they MAY (I don't know) mean a U.S. Carrier, ie. Verizon, AT&T, Sprint or T-Mobile, as opposed to the company US Celluar.
One thing you need to be aware of for the US996...the only way, right now, that it can be bootloader unlocked is by going to a LG site to get an unlock code from them. At that point it will lose warranty. Due to that, I'll be holding off on unlocking for a while. At least, that is my current plan.

Only thing I miss is the stylus going from the note 3 to the v10.
Though I suppose I don't miss the stylus that much since I jumped from the v10 to v20 instead of going back to the note series.
I would love to see lg put some effort into it and make a stylus based top end model instead of putting a stylus version as a middle model. I was hoping the v series would feature a stylus and the g series be a non stylus version but alas it hasn't happened.
Sent from my LG-H918 using XDA-Developers Legacy app

evo4g63t said:
Only thing I miss is the stylus going from the note 3 to the v10.
Though I suppose I don't miss the stylus that much since I jumped from the v10 to v20 instead of going back to the note series.
I would love to see lg put some effort into it and make a stylus based top end model instead of putting a stylus version as a middle model. I was hoping the v series would feature a stylus and the g series be a non stylus version but alas it hasn't happened.
Sent from my LG-H918 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But i think that LG is trying not to copy other brands such as samsung. For this reason they should limit the amount of resemblance between the features of each phone. Thus, there are just a handful of LG's with stylus in comparison to the note series . After all i doubt LG wants to experience the same thing that happened with samsung been sued by apple, and then apple been sued back by samsung (quite a hilarious story though lol) but if i had a company such as LG, i would definitely not want to even put a step in court for a battle that can easily last more than a month of constant interventions and proofs and etc... and could easily cost me 100+ or 200+ millions. In a lg v20 , i believe the stylus is not a necessity (Even for people that would love to have stylus for the v series). On the other hand, one could buy one of this or similars:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1xTouch-Scr...485550?hash=item33c8e075ee:g:0RkAAOSwIgNXmXla
and see if there is an application that resembles what one can do with the note's stylus. you will definitely wont find one that will be exactly the same. But maybe similar and who knows maybe better.

DrPhant0m said:
tl;dr version: If I see a US996 for sale that says it "only works with US Cellular" do I take the seller's word for it, or do I know better that the US996 is unlocked for all carriers if you have the right SIM card?
"I've got time" version:
I too am considering a journey from a Note 4 to a US996.
I'm on Verizon, and I just dropped my Note 4 Dev Edition (not that the DE means anything now that the BL unlock was released), cracking the LCD and rendering the digitizer useless. A new(ish) Note 4 is around $200... so I wouldn't bother replacing the screen on my otherwise well-used phone. PS... The phone was in a case, in a belt holster (Spigen Slim Armor / Seidio respectively) and a tempered glass screen protector. ugh.
If it wasn't obvious from my owning a Developer Edition phone... I like to have an unlocked bootloader and root. I had CM13 installed on the Note 4 because TouchWiz was so far behind in a lot of ways. So, I'm considering a V20. I'd rather spend a little more and get a phone that has a SUPPORTED BL unlock method. The Verizon V20 version can be BL unlocked via a hack with a debug bootloader, but it's irreversible and that may lead to issues with being painted into a corner. Enter the US996.
So, I started researching the V20, making sure that there was stable bootloader unlock method, the dev base for ROMs is strong, the reviews are good, etc... and I came across some sales that say that the phone is ONLY for US Cellular. Is this true? The US996 is the unlocked version, correct?
I tried to navigate LG's and USC's websites to get a model number and some info... but I'm not seeing it. Could US Cellular have somehow SIM-locked the phone so that only USC's SIMs work in it? Or... does the seller just not know any better, or wants to play it safe by saying it will only work with the carrier listed?
Thanks for the help! Also... anyone switching from the Note 4, please let me know what you miss. I use my stylus a lot for drawing or annotating on pictures and screenshots... so I think it will be the hardest thing to give up if I go to a V20 or other stylus-less phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been thinking a bit. I know I saw in a thread somewhere about the US996 being the same model for the Unlocked and for a carrier (don't recall if it was US Cellular). I think the key is 'Unlocked'. Maybe you should put your question in it's own post. May bet more input, from someone who knows for sure.

Thanks for the replies. Take a look at this auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/381960164377
The seller says they are an authorized US Cellular reseller… so it seems they'd know. And I doubt that they'd distort the truth about the phone being unlocked just to keep USC customers. So maybe there are US996s out there that are locked to USC. It doesn't make sense that there'd be a carrier-locked version of the US996 sold by LG… so maybe USC is locking them. Perhaps I'll ask the seller.
I ended up ordering a "like new" note 4 for $200 before I found out that B&H was selling the US996 for $300 off retail, and now I've missed that deal. So hopefully this Note4 really is in new condition and it will serve long enough for me to try out a V20 while the price drops again somewhere else.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Update… this is the response I got from the seller:
Thank you for your question. We are not selling the phone as compatible with other carriers or carrier-unlocked. We can't guarantee that the phone will work with an another carrier. We are only saying the phone will work with the carrier US Cellular. We can only guarantee that it works with US Cellular.*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you all think?
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Quick opinion on someone who has the phone...

I, like most of you, was waiting impatiently for this device for the past few weeks. I was given a retail model on Thursday early and wanted to let my thoughts after 48 hours.
I have to say I haven't been this disappointed in a phone in a while. While the phone is a looker, fundamentals are quite lacking.
Battery life - Same as the S7 and that's not a good thing. Has the same inconsistent issues of quick drains while running idle. As an example, was working on my house yesterday for roughly 4 hours and left the phone down with out being touched. Left it at 90% and came back at 74%. Again no usage. I have 3 other Android phones with more apps running and this doesn't happen except on Samsung. They will never change in this regard. Every year I have hope and get sucked into buying one. Same results.
Fingerprint sensor- I was one of the people that thought all the complaining was unwarranted about the fingerprint sensor placement. I thought this is just an issue for certain people with finger dexterity issues or just looking for something to complain about. Boy was I wrong. It's actually worse! It works maybe75% of the time and that is only using my right hand. Forget about the left hand.. way too awkward and difficult to do with one hand. At first, I thought no biggie, I'll just use face scanning or supplement with Iris scanning. Face scanning again is hit and miss and forget about Iris scanning if you are anywhere outside of bright light. I had the note 7 and that seemed to work a ton better. Maybe a software fix coming? Back to the fingerprint issue.. Samsung Pay doesn't even come preloaded on the phone! Why?!?! Because the NFC chip is on back so have fun using the sensor and holding it to a pay device. I was perplexed how this was a main selling point with the s and note series of last year and how it couldn't be preloaded. Hell it is on the gear S3. I used it 3 times yesterday at 3 different stores. I had to hold the phone upside down and the back facing the terminal. Picture that for a second... Holding your finger on a sensor which is located on the back and also having to have the back of the phone facing the CC reader at the same time. It's unreal. It's absolutely crazy that they threw this phone with the sensor placement at last minute and gathered...Oh yeah how are they going to use Pay? Ah just don't preload it and we won't get so many complaints. If you think I'm full of it.. go try it.
As mentioned with unlocking with the fingerprint, the new home button is virtually useless. I am trying to understand why they are trying to reinvent the wheel and not just use the tried and true method that every Android manufacturer has used for the past few years. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to unlock this phone. Too many steps.touch the side button or home button, wait for face unlock to work and if it doesn't then do finger gynastics with the fingerprint sensor. Seriously I wind up just using pattern after both fail. I use my V20 as my DD and it's 100% unlocking with the fingerprint on one touch Everytime. What the [email protected]#&$ were you thinking Samsung?
Audio - I love music and media and I am a wanna be audiophile. The headphone jack output and sound is no better than the S7. Lower output than most phones and music has a tight soundstage. Sound is tinny and missing elements you would hear on other high end phones. The Bluetooth audio is actually better but that was the same as the S7. It's nothing to write home about to be honest. I knew it wasn't going to be V20 quality but I was hoping for better with the akg tuning and Harmon partnership.Maybe those changes will come to the note 8?
Not all is bad with the phone, I love the screen and how I missed wireless charging! But there are fundamental ergonomic design issues that make this phone clumsy to use day to day. It's like you have to think to unlock it instead of it being second nature. People will see what I mean when they get their device. It feels like Samsung rushed again to market a product. I am praying that the note 8 is the next big thing.

sillyphillie said:
It feels like Samsung rushed again to market a product.
I am praying that the note 8 is the next big thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is this "rushed"? Samsung has had a full year since last year's Galaxy S7, and all the manufacturers have a team actually start working on the NEXT release before they launch the current one. So, OVER a year.
Are you suggesting Samsung do what Apple does? Release a new phone EVERY TWO YEARS? And then the ones in between are just to fix what they screwed up? iPhone 4S = iPhone 4 antenna fiasco fix.
And as for "big", the Notes are TOO big. I will never own a Note phablet.

Just giving my take. This phone is definitely not ready for prime time in my opinion. RAM management is also an issue I forgot to list but that has always been an issue with Samsung so nothing to see here on that. Knew that coming in. Just disappointed they didn't do much to address. Again these are my opinions.
Camera is definitely improved though... Sweet shots I'm getting.

Samsung pay didn't come preloaded in my Verizon S7 Edge, I had to download it. But I do see what you're saying about paying with your fingerprint. But I, myself, have the gear S3 so feel there's no need to use Samsung pay on my phone since the watch does it.

sillyphillie said:
Just giving my take. This phone is definitely not ready for prime time in my opinion. RAM management is also an issue I forgot to list but that has always been an issue with Samsung so nothing to see here on that. Knew that coming in. Just disappointed they didn't do much to address. Again these are my opinions.
Camera is definitely improved though... Sweet shots I'm getting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may not be ready for Prime Time, but they had plenty of time. Any design failures is on Samsung -- their skill set, their design/manufacturing expertise.
Whereas "rushed" is like Google's 2016 Pixel with the HUGE bezels because Huawei turned them down for a Google Pixel phone with no manufacturer branding, and they had to go to HTC and use a re-purposed frame HTC already had -- and they only had 9 months to design/test/release a phone. THAT is "rushed". They couldn't even make it waterproof like they wanted because they ran out of time.
The Pixel and Pixel XL aren’t waterproof because Google ‘ran out of time’
http://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-xl-waterproof-724120/
According to Pierce, when he asked Google why its phone isn’t waterproof, its response was, rather simply: “We ran out of time”.
Pierce states that the development cycle for the smartphone was uncharacteristically short, reportedly “nine months and a week” from design to launch, as Google abandoned its original plans for the phone at the end of 2015.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung has no such excuses, unless you are just saying they are incompetent.

I completely agree hence why I sold my pixel months ago. I'm not saying other manufacturers aren't rushing either. Just making a note that Samsung is as well. Anyway.. my take as someone who has the phone already. Hoping software fixes some of the concerns. But that fingerprint sensor and Samsung pay is there to stay.

ChazzMatt said:
Whereas "rushed" is like Google's 2016 Pixel with the HUGE bezels because Huawei turned them down for a Google Pixel phone with no manufacturer branding, and they had to go to HTC and use a re-purposed frame HTC already had
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on its a brand new design... http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=8346&idPhone2=8297
Any phone coming out after the s8 and g6 with ugly ass bezels will be dead on arrival, lets see if htc has enough time to shrink those bezel's.

Re: Samsung pay, there are more than a few phones with rear fingerprint scanners and NFC chips that have been out for some time. I've never found this an issue nor have I heard complaints like this. As of right now the technology you're longing for (a front facing under the screen fingerprint scanner, since that's the only feasible alternative with the infinity display) simply hasn't been released. Unfortunately, the reality is it's these shortcomings that are debatably left out (intentionally?) to keep interest in the next iteration and keep overhead down. Hence why we never get the perfect smart phone. I'll you know when I get the device but I assume it's no different then the others: shiny, new, with some improvements, likely the best phone out, but still short of the perfect phone. (Never get too high of expectations, these companies are here to be profitable) I had the G6 all of 2 days before I was left unimpressed, hopefully that's not the case with the S8.
Oh well take my money. Thanks for the write up!
---------- Post added at 05:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 AM ----------
peachpuff said:
Come on its a brand new design... http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=8346&idPhone2=8297
Any phone coming out after the s8 and g6 with ugly ass bezels will be dead on arrival, lets see if htc has enough time to shrink those bezel's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC is screwed if the renditions/leaks are accurate. Still has same general design and big ol bezels

sillyphillie said:
I, like most of you, was waiting impatiently for this device for the past few weeks. I was given a retail model on Thursday early and wanted to let my thoughts after 48 hours.
I have to say I haven't been this disappointed in a phone in a while. While the phone is a looker, fundamentals are quite lacking.
Battery life - Same as the S7 and that's not a good thing. Has the same inconsistent issues of quick drains while running idle. As an example, was working on my house yesterday for roughly 4 hours and left the phone down with out being touched. Left it at 90% and came back at 74%. Again no usage. I have 3 other Android phones with more apps running and this doesn't happen except on Samsung. They will never change in this regard. Every year I have hope and get sucked into buying one. Same results.
Fingerprint sensor- I was one of the people that thought all the complaining was unwarranted about the fingerprint sensor placement. I thought this is just an issue for certain people with finger dexterity issues or just looking for something to complain about. Boy was I wrong. It's actually worse! It works maybe75% of the time and that is only using my right hand. Forget about the left hand.. way too awkward and difficult to do with one hand. At first, I thought no biggie, I'll just use face scanning or supplement with Iris scanning. Face scanning again is hit and miss and forget about Iris scanning if you are anywhere outside of bright light. I had the note 7 and that seemed to work a ton better. Maybe a software fix coming? Back to the fingerprint issue.. Samsung Pay doesn't even come preloaded on the phone! Why?!?! Because the NFC chip is on back so have fun using the sensor and holding it to a pay device. I was perplexed how this was a main selling point with the s and note series of last year and how it couldn't be preloaded. Hell it is on the gear S3. I used it 3 times yesterday at 3 different stores. I had to hold the phone upside down and the back facing the terminal. Picture that for a second... Holding your finger on a sensor which is located on the back and also having to have the back of the phone facing the CC reader at the same time. It's unreal. It's absolutely crazy that they threw this phone with the sensor placement at last minute and gathered...Oh yeah how are they going to use Pay? Ah just don't preload it and we won't get so many complaints. If you think I'm full of it.. go try it.
As mentioned with unlocking with the fingerprint, the new home button is virtually useless. I am trying to understand why they are trying to reinvent the wheel and not just use the tried and true method that every Android manufacturer has used for the past few years. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to unlock this phone. Too many steps.touch the side button or home button, wait for face unlock to work and if it doesn't then do finger gynastics with the fingerprint sensor. Seriously I wind up just using pattern after both fail. I use my V20 as my DD and it's 100% unlocking with the fingerprint on one touch Everytime. What the [email protected]#&$ were you thinking Samsung?
Audio - I love music and media and I am a wanna be audiophile. The headphone jack output and sound is no better than the S7. Lower output than most phones and music has a tight soundstage. Sound is tinny and missing elements you would hear on other high end phones. The Bluetooth audio is actually better but that was the same as the S7. It's nothing to write home about to be honest. I knew it wasn't going to be V20 quality but I was hoping for better with the akg tuning and Harmon partnership.Maybe those changes will come to the note 8?
Not all is bad with the phone, I love the screen and how I missed wireless charging! But there are fundamental ergonomic design issues that make this phone clumsy to use day to day. It's like you have to think to unlock it instead of it being second nature. People will see what I mean when they get their device. It feels like Samsung rushed again to market a product. I am praying that the note 8 is the next big thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never used a fingerprint scanner or whatever on a phone, just good old passcode/pattern. It blows my mind people getting all uppity (no you, people in general) over a freaking unlock method to their phone. It's like a new Porsche/Mercedes and instead of talking about its performance people get all hung up on the palm sensor to unlock the door all the while they have the keys. Phones are all about the screen and apps, etc. Who gives a hoot about a stupid fingerprint sensor.

i plan to use samsung pay with Pin instead of fingerprint since it' on the back

Should we cancel our pre-orders then? I'd be more than happy to stick with my Note 4 than pay £55 a month for the next 2 years.

The funny thing about this bezel less design is I really think it's more beauty than function. Maybe it's the bezel less combined with the edge display but I feel less secure with this phone. I have a gs7 and lgv20 I keep referencing back to and when you are out and about the flat display lends to more secure in the hand feel. Maybe even more comfort.
Every year we hear how awesome a phone is from MWC through the first round of reviews. I'm really wanting to know what the consensus will be on this phone. The LG G6 was a darling when announced now the shine has come way off and people are finding out the size and feel are not what's it's cracked up to be. I'm going to give this phone more time and hope it grows on me.

The Phone Company said:
Should we cancel our pre-orders then? I'd be more than happy to stick with my Note 4 than pay £55 a month for the next 2 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everyone's got a different opinion... i am still happy to proceed with my s8 plus, and keep in mind... these folks complainin abt battery life are the US models running SD... and we've got exynos

Is Exnos a more thrifty battery chip?
I will get the EU model in any case.

(Discussion) Is This the End of the Line?

I thought nothing could replace my bootloader unlocked and rooted LG G3 running SkyDragon and the Xposed framework. Then came my US996 V20 factory unlocked, rooted and also with Xposed framework. This phone nearly had it all for me. I wanted FM radio but all attempts at getting it with Verizon as a carrier were unsuccessful. But I still loved and love myV20! Now is a very sad time for me because my 2.5 year old V20 is showing signs of advanced age. One of the primary reasons for choosing it was the replaceable battery. I don't give a rat's rear end about waterproof design, selfie cameras, using near field to pay for purchases or fingerprint unlocking but apparently the marketplace is driven by those desires. I do care about the ability to root and unlock the bootloader and, above all, the ability to replace the battery in any phone I own. Looks like I'm screwed on the latter!
If I bite the bullet on replaceable battery but absolutely must have root, what are my primary options? I would really like to hear from you guys and perhaps start a discussion on this subject. I paid $800 for my V20 and think it was nearly worth it but I do not have to have a flagship, especially when prices are getting absurd. I also would prefer a phone physically no larger than the V20 (absolutely loved the G3 sizewise!) and require a display that is visible in sunny outdoors. I would also like to be able to use my 256 GB SD card. I know my quest is practically hopeless but when the time comes I would like to get a phone that I feel I haven't paid for a lot of those trendy features I don't want or will never use.
Sorry about the rant – but the current state of affairs sucks, imho! BTW, 5G will "never" get to my area either but most of my usage is WiFi and I have a Gigabit FiOS connection but my V20 does not do well in the WiFi speed category.

PhoneBill said:
I thought nothing could replace my bootloader unlocked and rooted LG G3 running SkyDragon and the Xposed framework. Then came my US996 V20 factory unlocked, rooted and also with Xposed framework. This phone nearly had it all for me. I wanted FM radio but all attempts at getting it with Verizon as a carrier were unsuccessful. But I still loved and love myV20! Now is a very sad time for me because my 2.5 year old V20 is showing signs of advanced age. One of the primary reasons for choosing it was the replaceable battery. I don't give a rat's rear end about waterproof design, selfie cameras, using near field to pay for purchases or fingerprint unlocking but apparently the marketplace is driven by those desires. I do care about the ability to root and unlock the bootloader and, above all, the ability to replace the battery in any phone I own. Looks like I'm screwed on the latter!
If I bite the bullet on replaceable battery but absolutely must have root, what are my primary options? I would really like to hear from you guys and perhaps start a discussion on this subject. I paid $800 for my V20 and think it was nearly worth it but I do not have to have a flagship, especially when prices are getting absurd. I also would prefer a phone physically no larger than the V20 (absolutely loved the G3 sizewise!) and require a display that is visible in sunny outdoors. I would also like to be able to use my 256 GB SD card. I know my quest is practically hopeless but when the time comes I would like to get a phone that I feel I haven't paid for a lot of those trendy features I don't want or will never use.
Sorry about the rant – but the current state of affairs sucks, imho! BTW, 5G will "never" get to my area either but most of my usage is WiFi and I have a Gigabit FiOS connection but my V20 does not do well in the WiFi speed category.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an Essential phone and then moved to a new Mi mix 2S and both have been great replacement for the V20.
The new Mi 9 is also a great alternative
Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk

OnePlus is also very good, that's where I moved to from V20 and S8+.

No matter what people say I'll stick with my us996 and f800k.......this ticks all the boxes for me.

Same problem I have with all the new devices. I tried the non-replaceable battery in a Nexus 6. Never again. Sucks when it dies, and they all will. It's just chemistry. And you can't get known good quality cells, just random China crap that is completely unknown. Perhaps a bigger name flagship like the S8 would have some options for good quality cells. Everyone else gets the rejects. It's a bit harsh, but I've personally tested random batteries and they are nearly universally crap that don't meet the stated capacity and lifetime. Not just in a phone either, real discharge testing. There are a couple decent manufacturers, but you pay more and they don't make batteries for every device, they just can't. Particularly when "normal" people don't go opening up a glued together device to replace the battery.
I get that my desires mean I'm not the "mass market". But it would be nice to have a couple options to pick from. Maybe just a big and small? I like larger devices, but not everyone does.
If they want more than about $300, I demand replaceable batteries, expandable storage, and headphone jack. And, most important, root. If I don't have root, I don't own the device. If I don't own it, I'm not paying nearly a grand for it. Hell, I got all that on my V20 for about $400. Sadly, at the moment there is no upgrade path. The best thing is, the things I ask for are cheap as hell, maybe $5 total in quantity, so the potential profit margin is huge. Everyone is just too busy trying to look like Apple. If I wanted that, I'd have already bought an iPhone.

stinka318 said:
No matter what people say I'll stick with my us996 and f800k.......this ticks all the boxes for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree. The V20 is the last of it's kind and they did most things right for it's time.. it even has an IR blaster, which I use as a universal remote. Like it's been mentioned before: the replaceable battery, expandable memory, quad dac+3.5mm jack, and decent all around specs for it's time makes this phone one of a kind. They don't make phones like this anymore, at least on the hardware level. Even though we all complained about LG and their crappy software updates, at least I gotta give credit to LG for making a phone like this (hardware wise).
Hopefully the dev community keeps it running for some time, in retrospect, this phone is a legend.