Related
I have about two weeks experience with Android OS and as a software developer I will be interested to know the technical details behind the Android OS.
I have already noticed this is possible to upgrade applications ported with the handset's ROM i.e. the Market app. This raised the question to me why can't I uninstall applications from the ROM without rooting or risking my handset's warranty to achieve this?
Is my expectation as a user of computers for 20 years unreasonable to think in 2010 with all software development and technological advances the uninstall feature should have been in Android OS from day one?
This is not exactly like Google is the first company in the world developed an OS to just the lack of experience with what users would want. From what I have seen so far in world of Android is that, the first thing users would want to know how to root their handset to remove packages that they have no use for.
My guess is that Google doesn't want users removing Systems apps. I'm assuming that they think that these applications are core and thus don't want you removing them. Remove the market, no more apps... or way to get it back etc.
Applications installed by you can be uninstalled, I'm just thinking it is the same as in windows, you can't uninstall the task manager etc (Bad example but meh =P)
Very simple - to prevent lay users from removing critical components.
Can you imagine the service costs involved in reparing devices that that have been damaged by people trying to remove bloatware?
They still give you the option to restore.
OK DISREGUARD THIS AS I MISSED THE PART ABOUT NEEDING TO ROOT!
They can be removed but its not recommended to do so without know EXACTLY what your removing and weather is vital to your phones operating system.
BUT in order to do so your phone needs root access, and root explorer installed. There are several forums on just about all android support sites that explain how to root, install the manager, and which apps/files NOT to remove.
J_HaX said:
They can be removed but its not recommended to do so without know EXACTLY what your removing and weather is vital to your phones operating system.
BUT in order to do so your phone needs root access, and root explorer installed. There are several forums on just about all android support sites that explain how to root, install the manager, and which apps/files NOT to remove.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ye u can remove almost every stock app but this may affect the stability of your phone, modifying your phone always comes with the option restoring it back to default. If something goes wrong with moding (something really hard and extraordinary rare ) u can restore it. Browsing through Xda might solve many questions, we all didn't wanted stock rom (not because it was bad, because we can have s omething better. This community has VERY VERY good developers.
Androids own!!!
One thing I still don't get is...
How can Google upgrade Market app without the su privilage but the rest of the world has to root their phones to remove bloatware such as 'amazon mp3'?
@ftgg99: How much bloatware in Windows cost Microsoft or PC manufacturers? None in fact they get paid to include them with your hardware. However, I see an issue with mobile devices. You have already paid for the ROM storage, the bigger ROM size is the more expensive your handset would be, then the manufacturer uses your already paid ROM to make even more money by installing bloatware. I would be a fool to think manufacturers would pass on a percentage of the bloatware earnings by reducing the cost of their products to the consumers in this model.
The way I see it, the burden has been put on the communities such as xda. Users wouldn't ask the manufacturers how to root their handsets and this is left to the dedicated individuals to overcome the mess compnies normally leave us with. I'm not going to say the mess is a cost saving measure by companies.
The thing is that there are a lot more people buy and use phones than computers. After someone buys a smart phone with intention to use for calls, text, web and to use some apps, they realize the possibilities of the smart phone, they start digging in to the files, therefore Google blocked the root folder from modifying, otherwise Google would have to repair warrantied phones that didn't have to end up there just because people didn't know or care what they did. But if you got passed ROOTING, you must know what you are doing and from this point you can modify files and apps, but now ROOTING becomes too easy.
Basically just because too many juveniles got their hands on the equipment.
CSharpHeaven said:
One thing I still don't get is...
How can Google upgrade Market app without the su privilage but the rest of the world has to root their phones to remove bloatware such as 'amazon mp3'?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm also very interested to read the answer for this one!
CSharpHeaven said:
One thing I still don't get is...
How can Google upgrade Market app without the su privilage but the rest of the world has to root their phones to remove bloatware such as 'amazon mp3'?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RAMMANN said:
I'm also very interested to read the answer for this one!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The answer, from my point of view, is quite simple: they just upgrade the application on /data/app ON TOP of the /system/app default Market version. So, you can always go back to your "default" version just by "uninstalling updates".
Summary: they do not upgrade the Market form ROM, just install the new version on top.
CSharpHeaven said:
I have about two weeks experience with Android OS and as a software developer I will be interested to know the technical details behind the Android OS.
I have already noticed this is possible to upgrade applications ported with the handset's ROM i.e. the Market app. This raised the question to me why can't I uninstall applications from the ROM without rooting or risking my handset's warranty to achieve this?
Is my expectation as a user of computers for 20 years unreasonable to think in 2010 with all software development and technological advances the uninstall feature should have been in Android OS from day one?
This is not exactly like Google is the first company in the world developed an OS to just the lack of experience with what users would want. From what I have seen so far in world of Android is that, the first thing users would want to know how to root their handset to remove packages that they have no use for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried to work with iPhone(don't know about iPhone 4)? They build fortress around their system and even the apps you install cannot be uninstalled until you gailbrake it and use 3rd party installer to uninstall. And not talking about the "MONOPLY" they run with AT&T.
Hello.
Thank you for your click to read my entire thread.
I prepared two version of my story with different length.
Herer is a longer story
Shorter story is available at the end of this thread.
My family and I have android-based smartphones.
We are Korean and have lived in Korea.
1.
My younger brother chose his first smartphone as Nexus S,
but my father chose his phone as GalaxyS.
My father and younger brother are not familar with electronic gadget,
so I always help them when any change is needed to his smartphone.
2.
Banks in Korea hate rooting action.
In the recent,
they decide to refuse providing smart-banking service
if customer try to use banking service with rooted smartphone.
There are many complains about this decision but no follwing measure was occured.
Bank company's refusing mechanism is following.
When the smart-banking app is excuted, they check some files related rooting.
If the files were found, they stop to work and are automatically closed with warning messege.
3.
I found the 'Tegrak Kernal' and 'Tegrak app' composed by a Korean.
With these kernal and app, user can switch between Rooted and Unrooted by just one tap.
The kernal is neither a rom nor rom-dependant thing. It may stored in recovery reign.
Switching mechanism what I understood is simple.
When menu in the app is tapped, by excuting some script, su related files are completed deleted.
This action does not require any rebooting process.
In one or two seconds, unrooting (by deleting files) is done.
Finally the smart-banking app works again immediately.
Rooting (rerooting) is similar. Tapping another menu button in app, rooting is completed.
Titatanium or Root explorer works again.
This function is fantastic for Koreans.
4.
Tegrak kernal is dedicated to Galaxy serise.
There is no plan to make the kernal available for other devices.
5.
I love HTC's phone and want to keep using the phone with smart-banking feature.
My yonger brother also have to keep using his Nexus S until contract is ended.
I tried some search about rooting/unrooting without reboot in XDA, but I have no results.
In my thought, XDA is the most advanced place for smartphone in the world.
I also think that there are many developers outside Korea than inside Korea.
Idea about swithing without reboot may not unique or special.
I'm sure that a app for "swithing rooting/unrooting without reboot" is alrady exist somewhere.
6.
Can I get any advice or a clue about solution for "swithing rooting/unrooting without reboot" which work for any device (or just not os-dependent)?
The exact name or address is welcomed, but suggesting keywords is also appreciated.
Becasue English is not my native language, I have difficulties in expressing my need or goal in English for a good search result.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shorter story
Tegrak is a kind of recovery and is made by Korean developer.
Tegrak have a function of switching between rooting and unrooting without any reboot.
Tegrak is dedicate to Korea's famous model, Galaxy serise only.
I'm finding such a app or thing for Nexus or DHD.
Any help for finding is appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..
I found this app:
OTA RootKeeper
From the app description:
"A bonus feature is present, allowing you to un-root your device while keeping a su backup.
This way you can naively hide root until you choose to restore it via without further complications.
This nifty feature work on every rooted device.
** Temporary un-root statement **
This feature is designed for dev purposes in order to test their app with or without root.
The goal here is not to encourage stupid and unacceptable behaviors by movie or content sellers trying to prevent you to purchase or watch digital media you purchased if your device is rooted.
Vote with your dollars: Don't accept being a customer of companies restricting your freedom with defective and and inefficient technical measures."
Thank you, Election Day.
Fight against company or government is very painful and scary things for me as a person in Korea. There are many complains but concentrated protest was not found yet in Korea.
Fortunately, a Korean developer opens file/folder list which should be deleted prior to running smartbanking app. That could be helpful later if I find some tunable tools for temp unroot.
Thank you very much el_psycho.
Your found is the exact what I want.
I just tested the app, but it requires some improvements against bank apps in Korea.
Therefore I leaved an appeal to the author of Rootkeeper.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=21769752#post21769752
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1241517&page=7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your advice again, el_psycho.
Hi,
I have been a WP user for a very long time (A journey which started with HTC Artemis)
I had started using the custom ROM's provided by some amazing chef's over here compared to what MS was dishing out.
I am not having the WP7 from the first day it had launched (Started with the mozart and now on lumia 800)
I have not yet tried to root the mobile or install a custom ROM in this as for the first time I am loving what MS has given.
Since there are quite a lot of people here who are using custom ROM and also rooting their devices I was wondering what I am missing.
If you have rooted your device or installed a custom ROM please let me know the advantages of rooting and/or installing a custom ROM.
I had searched the threads and could not find an answer anywhere so if this was posted somewhere before apologies.
This has definitely been asked (and answered) before, but the short version is that custom ROMs give deeper access to the system (ability to replace system files, which are locked in ROM, and ability to completely bypass the security system, for example). They also can include the best firmware features from multiple different OEMs. Current "rooting" ability gives less complete access than a custom ROM (for example, native EXEs aren't supported yet, although that's being worked on and should be available soon), but also maintains the OS's ability to receive official updates. Stock ROMs are also less likely to have bugs than custom ROMs, though they typically also offer fewer features.
Of course, part of it comes down to the model of phone you have. LGs can be rooted, but don't get custom ROMs. Lumia 710s (and a very lucky few Lumia 800s) can get custom ROMs, but we havent' been able to root their stock ROMs.
I had checked a few threads but did not find the complete list of benifits in one central place hence this thread.
I am giving below the benefits of rooting based on my little knowledge. It would be great if some one would be able to add to this very small list.
Pro's of rooting
1) Can install the best firmware for your phone regardless of your carrier and your location.
2) Can side load apps which are not approved by MS and not in the marketplace
3) SMS tones
4) Using the phone as mass storage (Not sure about this one)
5) Change the available fonts and metro theme colors
A very small list from me so it would be really great if someone could expand and also correct if the above list is wrong.
I just really dont know if I should custom rom mine. I have so many sms and mms, couple of my games are finished, and final fantasy is still halfway through. Carbon isnt in the marketplace anymore but I still have it. Also messages in whatsapp viber and kik, risking all those for full unlock and homebrew apps that I need but lived without since I bought a titan. If it were possible to export messages, and game progress, and import them back, then I'd definitely custom rom mine, else I'll just have to get a lumia 920 and then do a custom rom.
Ability to send all files through bluetooth to other phones is also great, you should really consider jailbreaking.
NeuroXT said:
I just really dont know if I should custom rom mine. I have so many sms and mms, couple of my games are finished, and final fantasy is still halfway through. Carbon isnt in the marketplace anymore but I still have it. Also messages in whatsapp viber and kik, risking all those for full unlock and homebrew apps that I need but lived without since I bought a titan. If it were possible to export messages, and game progress, and import them back, then I'd definitely custom rom mine, else I'll just have to get a lumia 920 and then do a custom rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's defenetly worth trying out the 7.8 rom, with the windows phone 8 startsceen!! (link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1908624)
I'm sure you won't regret this one!!! (Microsoft is said to release this February 2013!)
And after you have the Nokia apps (Maps, Music, Drive, City Lens & Counters) you won't let the custom rom's go!!!
(Use this HSPL guide: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=32097753&postcount=14)
For the backing up part: USE CABSENDER! (http://xboxmod.sylvester20007.com/TOOLS/WP7-Update-Cab-Sender.rar) (as Admin)
Thanks sianto I really appreciate it, but I've read some posts around that backing up via cabsender and after installing a custom rom, you won't be able to use that backup anymore as the ID changes per rom install. Is this true? Is it not like in android where you perform a full nand backup and restore anytime?
NeuroXT said:
Thanks sianto I really appreciate it, but I've read some posts around that backing up via cabsender and after installing a custom rom, you won't be able to use that backup anymore as the ID changes per rom install. Is this true? Is it not like in android where you perform a full nand backup and restore anytime?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it is unstable sometimes! But you just need to copy the folder xxxxx - xxxxx - xxxxx - xxxxx - xxxxx
x: is something random
from an temp folder called Windows Phone Update C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows Phone Update
to an safe location, and (after flashing) place it back (with still an extra copy on a safe location) and just use R.
It "should" work!
I get asked sometimes why root an android device. What is your reasons for rooting and what are the benefits? I'd be interested to hear your views.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
st3vo_1986 said:
I get asked sometimes why root an android device. What is your reasons for rooting and what are the benefits? I'd be interested to hear your views.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most phones come with the operating system "locked" by the manufacturers. They do not want their devices to be meddled with and made unusable by the user. There are valid reasons for them to do this, some I think will be as follows.
1. Maintain integrity of the phone they sell.
2. Lower Helpdesk cost. Users who do not know how, meddled and rendered phone un-usable during warranty and then make claims for repair under warranty terms. This will unrealistically increase the cost of providing repair works under the warranty period.
3. Ease of maintenance. There is one copy of the ROM. If the user brings in a phone that is not working, they will just flash the standard ROM over as a first check. This is easy to do for the first step of troubleshooting.
4. Avoid bad publicity- the word of mouth that there is a high rate of return for maintenance (due to incompetent wannabe phone hackers) spread and this creates a public image of the phone being "unreliable".
Reasons for rooting is mainly to be able to use the phone as how we like to use it. Some examples:
1. Not happy with the phone producer's version of Android user-interface. Same version of Android, but different manufacturers offer their own take on the user interface. By rooting the phone, the user can change to a custom ROM that he finds suitable.
2. Not happy with the manufacturer's choice of apps. For example, the media-player app. Without rooting, you cannot uninstall the media app that came with the phone ROM. Yes, you can install an additional media-player app, but then you will have some bloatware (manufacturer's app) that you cannot uninstall.
3. Change to a newer (or older) version of Android. E.g., Older phones that are rooted can upgrade from Android 2x to 4x, if the hardware is suitable.
4. Change operating system. After having an Android phone, a user might want to change his mind try out a Windows Phone. After rooting the phone, it is possible to change the operating system from Android to Windows and vice versa. A good example are the older WM6x phones, such as HTC Touch HD or HD2, they can be installed and work with Android, and if the user is not happy, revert to WM6x. Without rooting the phone, this cannot be done.
5. Build and install our own tailor-made custom ROM using a Kitchen+ROM of choice. Sometimes, a custom ROM provided by an independent developer may not be entirely suitable for all of us. With the Kitchen+ROM, it is possible to break-down the ROM to components, and select the components to build another ROM (a variant of the original) that meets a specific requirement. For example, it is possible to exclude GoogleMarket, Facebook, Twitter apps and build a ROM without them, if a person wishes.
There are many more other reasons, but I guess the main ones are those.
Hope this helps.
Let me start by saying I'm not the new kid on the block. I've been using Android since it's inception. I am an Android fanatic. I root, tinker with roms, apps, settings, kernels, mods, etc. . You name it, I do it( as far as android is concerned). I say this with a singular purpose, don't flame me for this question because to me it seems completely valid.
Why does android not have the ability backup itself built in( this should not require root) ?
Why has Google not implemented the ability to do so from a computer? <<- This should be identical to how an iPhone is backed up ( don't flame on this because it's actually one of the things iPhone does better than anyone else, and I hate Apple. However I give credit where it's due)
Don't tell me we have plenty of options even if we're not rooted, if this we're the case then people would not rely on clockwork mod recoveries, twrp, or the like. Those types of restores should be available without having a custom recovery, custom rom, or root in and of itself.
Also don't bring up the backup using adb, it's hidden, and it is mediocre. It fails to backup a lot of things.
I'm asking only about a complete backup option, with possibly the option to select and deselect certain types of data<<--This to should be similar to backing up an iPhone .
Now who here would like this to be a feature implemented in the next version of android?
If you answer my questions please just be clear and concise.
I will respond should it be warranted, or requested.
This is not a flaming thread, don't do it.
I look forward to all of your responses.
Sent from my LG-E980 using xda app-developers app
playerjunglejosh said:
Let me start by saying I'm not the new kid on the block. I've been using Android since it's inception. I am an Android fanatic. I root, tinker with roms, apps, settings, kernels, mods, etc. . You name it, I do it( as far as android is concerned). I say this with a singular purpose, don't flame me for this question because to me it seems completely valid.
Why does android not have the ability backup itself built in( this should not require root) ?
Why has Google not implemented the ability to do so from a computer? <<- This should be identical to how an iPhone is backed up ( don't flame on this because it's actually one of the things iPhone does better than anyone else, and I hate Apple. However I give credit where it's due)
Don't tell me we have plenty of options even if we're not rooted, if this we're the case then people would not rely on clockwork mod recoveries, twrp, or the like. Those types of restores should be available without having a custom recovery, custom rom, or root in and of itself.
Also don't bring up the backup using adb, it's hidden, and it is mediocre. It fails to backup a lot of things.
I'm asking only about a complete backup option, with possibly the option to select and deselect certain types of data<<--This to should be similar to backing up an iPhone .
Now who here would like this to be a feature implemented in the next version of android?
If you answer my questions please just be clear and concise.
I will respond should it be warranted, or requested.
This is not a flaming thread, don't do it.
I look forward to all of your responses.
Sent from my LG-E980 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you want some gain, you would have to bear some pain.......
Well... to be honest, i really don't use backups much, just titanium backup and we've got non-root alternatives as you stated, so , it's not a matter of great attention to me.... I like fresh and clean installs
playerjunglejosh said:
Let me start by saying I'm not the new kid on the block. I've been using Android since it's inception. I am an Android fanatic. I root, tinker with roms, apps, settings, kernels, mods, etc. . You name it, I do it( as far as android is concerned). I say this with a singular purpose, don't flame me for this question because to me it seems completely valid.
Why does android not have the ability backup itself built in( this should not require root) ?
Why has Google not implemented the ability to do so from a computer? <<- This should be identical to how an iPhone is backed up ( don't flame on this because it's actually one of the things iPhone does better than anyone else, and I hate Apple. However I give credit where it's due)
Don't tell me we have plenty of options even if we're not rooted, if this we're the case then people would not rely on clockwork mod recoveries, twrp, or the like. Those types of restores should be available without having a custom recovery, custom rom, or root in and of itself.
Also don't bring up the backup using adb, it's hidden, and it is mediocre. It fails to backup a lot of things.
I'm asking only about a complete backup option, with possibly the option to select and deselect certain types of data<<--This to should be similar to backing up an iPhone .
Now who here would like this to be a feature implemented in the next version of android?
If you answer my questions please just be clear and concise.
I will respond should it be warranted, or requested.
This is not a flaming thread, don't do it.
I look forward to all of your responses.
Sent from my LG-E980 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it seems like a interesting idea, when i had a ipod touch back then, i jail broke it and after a few days it decided to not want to turn on (stayed at apple logo) and iTunes detected it and i was able to restore it to brand spanking new. i dont think it would be possible for google to do so without root ( and a few Sues here and there from apple ) Android is based off linux right? we can make backups on linux because we have Super User permissions, we own this Computer, we can do all the Admin Crap we want. for android, Samsung owns your phone or HTC owns your phone, You do not have full Admin permissions on your device to make a backup (of the sort we are talking about) also im sure the OEM's would be angry with people easily being able to Restore their broken device so they wont buy that phone a second time or even get a bigger more expensive phone.
The reason I bring it up is not because of fresh installs, or whatever.
Here is an example:
A regular non techie person, has Android phone x. They make a complete backup using the aforementioned capabilities that isn't implemented yet. There phones screen goes out, they drop there phone in water, whatever the phone is not in working condition. Well if they had the capabilities that I'm referring to, that phone would need to be called on warranty, or for the latter insurance. Either way they are sent a new device, same model as they had previously. Now they sync there backup, and there back up and running.
The way it is now, that person would have to hope that Google syncs back there apps ( it has never worked for me, except for contacts, and for the most part developers aren't backing up there app data to Google so that is not something you get back).
Not to mention settings are never synced, so there's that.
Point being android does not have any good options to make a complete backup. The only real options require root, which an average consumer will not have. This is why I'm saying it should be simplified, to where we can do it via one click on a pc.
I personally would like to start a petition for this, as anyone could benefit from this function.
Sent from my LG-E980 using xda app-developers app
eatsleep said:
Well, you want some gain, you would have to bear some pain.......
Well... to be honest, i really don't use backups much, just titanium backup and we've got non-root alternatives as you stated, so , it's not a matter of great attention to me.... I like fresh and clean installs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but if it's implemented within android that's not really an issue.
Look at it like this, we used to need root to screen shot, to Hotspot, to install apps out of the Android market ( not really been an issue since it hasn't been Google play because android was fairly mature by then). Point is Google gave those features, and implemented them natively, this removing need to root to do them. The same could be done with the ability to make backups.
Sent from my LG-E980 using xda app-developers app
Trozzul said:
it seems like a interesting idea, when i had a ipod touch back then, i jail broke it and after a few days it decided to not want to turn on (stayed at apple logo) and iTunes detected it and i was able to restore it to brand spanking new. i dont think it would be possible for google to do so without root ( and a few Sues here and there from apple ) Android is based off linux right? we can make backups on linux because we have Super User permissions, we own this Computer, we can do all the Admin Crap we want. for android, Samsung owns your phone or HTC owns your phone, You do not have full Admin permissions on your device to make a backup (of the sort we are talking about) also im sure the OEM's would be angry with people easily being able to Restore their broken device so they wont buy that phone a second time or even get a bigger more expensive phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ment to quote you in the above quote.
Sent from my LG-E980 using xda app-developers app
playerjunglejosh said:
Ment to quote you in the above quote.
Sent from my LG-E980 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i think google has done enough to make google as great as it is today, im thinking the reason why we dont have one of these options could be that they want us to make a program for this? im sure eventually they will have such a option to download multiple apps on a que so we can install them quickly without have to go over Each specific one.
Well actually what I'm referring to would have to be done by Google.
Here's why, locked bootloaders, encrypted boot loaders, etc.
The developer community could make such a program, but it's going to need root to be able to do what I'm referring to.
Google would have to make the OEMs use a standard, so that it could be accomplished without exposing there software. This would probably mean our backups would have to be encrypted on a per Google account basis.
It's not an impossible feat.
1) It would simply require Google to make the standard, and ensure that it's enforced. Ignoring it would mean no Google services, which to most is a huge negative.
2) Google release the program.
3) OEM would need to ensure compliance with said program, and submit software drivers to Google, or simply distribute them via there website( as they do now). Preferably submitting them to Google.
4) Making backups would become so much easier, especially for the average joe
Sent from my LG-E980 using xda app-developers app
Trozzul said:
well i think google has done enough to make google as great as it is today, im thinking the reason why we dont have one of these options could be that they want us to make a program for this? im sure eventually they will have such a option to download multiple apps on a que so we can install them quickly without have to go over Each specific one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One big problem with this is the syncing of app data. I don't want to have to restart my games every time I get a different device( especially a replacement device that is the same model as my prior device).
Another thing, I keep an electronic checkbook, and would be thrilled if I could keep that app data from here on out, even when I change devices. However this definitely something I don't want Google's prying eyes on. So only local backup, which makes the complete backup via pc even more vital.
Maybe since businesses are the next aim, they will implement this feature because it can be vital certain data be absolutely private, but still have backups.
Sent from my LG-E980 using xda app-developers app