Hey guys,
Starting a new section on the site and want to get XDA User's and Dev's opinions on the matter.
Head over to the site for info:
http://theunlockr.com/2010/02/18/de...veloper-pages-on-theunlockr-com-beta-testing/
Think it could be a great resource for rom junkies and devs alike (and a nice compliment to XDA for that matter).
Thanks for your time guys!
I really am not trying to hijack your thread but this sounds like the OpenRelease project we are already working on and is almost done...
This is gonna be yet another source for people to check...
If we fragment any more, doing the OpenRelease project will be pointless.
No it is different. Our site is not for a repository of ROMs (although the site has that already), it is for Developers to show off all of their work in one location. It's more of a mini blog for developers, they can still use our mini blog for releasing whatever they want and easily head to your page to post the ROM in your repository without much effort, we CAN coexist lol
Actually I just thought, our two projects might be able to help each other and benefit the community further...
PM'd you, Simon.
Hi Guys
I made a suggestion in the "petition for devs" thread, but with all the excitement
it passed by all.
let me make some assumptions :
1. Most of us love android OS very much and the freedom it gives us.
2. Most of us want to try new ROMs every once in a while and want to customize it as much as possible.
3. Most of us are technological freaks, with a good sense of learning and interest in technology and its implementation.
4. Most of us would like to develop for this phone given the time and knowledge.
Regarding the time, we're working on a time machine, but till then, what do you say we found a knowledge base for our phone ?
I'm sure Krylon, DSexton, DrHonk, Raver, FBis, Soma, Fluip (forgive me if forget someone) wouldn't mind share with us their experience and insights.
If it takes too much time and resource it's worth a fund,
since this would make us know the difficulties and barriers and make some of us become new devs and revive this community and its content.
Please let me know what you think.
Sent from me.
I have a few questions on some obscure problems, and will be happy to share some knowledge when I get some answers.
...But, most of the devs are doing can be found by using google or your favorite search engine or searching locally here on the XDA Forum.
If you're new to XDA, awesome! Start here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1282679
and here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=263
If you're new to rom dev, you can learn from the kitchens.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1257297 (Dsixda's Kitchen)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=990829 (UOT Kitchen)
Then use your imagination and search other device forums and the "Android Development and Hacking" forums: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=564
If you're new to kernel development, I'd suggest learning git and getting comfortable browsing github and reading through changes to learn.
But by far, the best advise I can offer is how to ask smart questions: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
EDIT:Specifically: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#writewell
Hope this is helpful!
Thanks a lot Behundven!
Is any of the links related to our special file system in t959v?
Sent from me
itzik2sh said:
Is any of the links related to our special file system in t959v?
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Well, I'm not a "rom chef". I like source code and specs/datasheets, and am not very good at reverse engineering.
Raver, Dsexton, Whitehawkx, and a lot of other could bring more insight.
You will gain more use of your 'knowledge to be' if you learn about Android instead of getting spoon fed tricks that are specific to this phone.
Try building AOSP and CyanogenMod for other phones (like i9000 on CM, or crespo on AOSP EDIT:Granted, don't try to run the output on your SGS4G! You could try it in an emulator.) just to get a feel for what it takes to build android from source. Doing this will also help you get all the right things installed on your build computer that you will need. (java jdk, toolchains, build required libraries, etc...)
I guarantee sgs4g will get cm7 (if not cm9 as well) in the future, and the knowledge you learn from building the other phones will come in handy when it is available.
I am a computer science graduate that is looking to work on an existing ROM project in my spare time (ideally a popular one like CM10). How would I go about this? I don't mind starting small (doing code reviews and such), but I would like to be able to work up to actually submitting fixes and being part of a 'team'.
I don't have any specific Android development experience, but I know Java well and use it every day at my job. I am just not currently a part of any code projects in my spare time and would love to do something Android related now that I finally have one (even better if I could work on .
So...is this possible? What steps can I take towards this goal? Or is this a situation like 'you've got a lot to learn before you even think of joining a project'. Again, I have no Android-specific dev experience, but I learn quick and am eager to be a part of the Android development community. I want to be part of an existing team because I feel my strength lies in developing fixes and features, not in designing a ROM from the ground up.
Thanks in advance to anyone who replies and sorry If I shouldn't have posted this in a more specific Q&A forum as well.
Exoplanet25 said:
I am a computer science graduate that is looking to work on an existing ROM project in my spare time (ideally a popular one like CM10). How would I go about this? I don't mind starting small (doing code reviews and such), but I would like to be able to work up to actually submitting fixes and being part of a 'team'.
I don't have any specific Android development experience, but I know Java well and use it every day at my job. I am just not currently a part of any code projects in my spare time and would love to do something Android related now that I finally have one (even better if I could work on .
So...is this possible? What steps can I take towards this goal? Or is this a situation like 'you've got a lot to learn before you even think of joining a project'. Again, I have no Android-specific dev experience, but I learn quick and am eager to be a part of the Android development community. I want to be part of an existing team because I feel my strength lies in developing fixes and features, not in designing a ROM from the ground up.
Thanks in advance to anyone who replies and sorry If I shouldn't have posted this in a more specific Q&A forum as well.
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Your best bet is to start by trying to build a CM rom from source, play with GIT and get used to building android from source, then look towards a device you own, if there already a CM verion for it? if so perhaps talk with the dev thats in charge of it and see what you can help with.
i have seen some excellent roms like resurrection remix paranoid pacman are not getting that much of development ,they are excellent roms i there by request developers to continue these projects if original developers are not getting tym (i would do it myself if i could) i am not asking for eta nor questioning their ability it is just that i "think" these good roms should get thier required amount of development .its a humble request for all developers of nexus 5 to support thesee roms because nexus 5 doesnt face any stability issues so it shouldnt b a difficult task (thats what i think i dont know if its easy or difficult ) again it is a request for all developers any my personal views on those roms so no offence
If the developers what to update them, they will. If they don't, they won't.
A lot of devs support many devices also. So patience is required.
Devs do this for fun, it's not a requirement that they do any updates, or even share their work.
As you hinted, if you can't wait, learn how to build them yourself. ?
You say this is a humble request but it's anything but humble. There is no requirement for any level of support nor should there be. The devs are giving their own time and resources.
Support from developers is not guaranteed on XDA, it is a hobby for most and there is no requirement for anyone to share their work.
This could be an opportune moment for someone else to step up and start to learn something for themselves and then help the community out.
As such, threads like this are not required and tend to start arguments and spread ill will, so...
THREAD CLOSED
Good morning/evening,
As discussed in the other thread we started regarding changes to our site, we promised that we would change things around a bit and one of them was the long standing Sharing Rule (also known as Rule 12). We have worked diligently with the administration and moderation teams to turn the one we had into something that would make developer's works a bit safer from stealing and other unsavory things.
This thread is not meant as an announcement but rather as an open discussion platform so that you (the members/developers) can weigh in before we write it in the stone tablet along with the rest of them. This will be an open discussion regarding this topic only. Also, unlike the previous thread, which was more of a TownHall type of thread, this one WILL be moderated. In other words,
* keep the thread on topic;
* Unrelated posts will be removed;
* Members not adhering to the above two will be disciplined.
We look forward to having good, meaningful feedback from all of you (otherwise we would have added this to the rules like we always do). We want to have good, positive change into this community to make it into a pleasant atmosphere for all.
Without further ado, I give you the beta draft of Rule 12
Rule 12 - Sharing
XDA-Developers is based on the principle of sharing to transmit knowledge. This is the cornerstone of our site. Our members and developers freely share their experience, knowledge, and finished works with the rest of the community to promote growth within the developer community, and to encourage those still learning to become better. There are those, however, who take advantage of this model and try to make personal gains from the hard work of others.
In order to preserve the delicate balance between sharing for the good of the community and blatant self-promotion, regular members and developers alike must understand (and agree) to the following:
12-1. Give credits where due - Credits and acknowledgements for using and releasing work which is based on someone else's work are an absolute must. Works reported to have no credits will be taken down until proper acknowledgements are added by the member in question;
12-2. Courtesy - While most of the work released on our site falls under the umbrella of open source, that is not the only license model being used by developers on xda-developers. In order to prevent problems, we ask that if you decide to base your work on someone else's that you check the license model being used (as it might not be as permissive as one may think);
12-3. Re-releasing other's works as your own is forbidden. The code that you release into the wild must have something beyond minor aesthetic changes that makes it better than the last. As this can be subjective, kang reports will be reviewed on a case by case basis. If you feel that your code has been kanged, please contact the Dev Relations team (listed below) if you cannot solve the issue amicably via PM. Please understand that you will be asked to provide evidence to substantiate your claim;
12-4. Developers can issue take down requests (by contacting the Dev Relations team) under the following circumstances:
- in-process builds start showing up on forums when the developer is not yet ready to release the work;
- cases in which another developer is too aggressively soliciting donations or misrepresenting the work (kanging);
- unofficial builds where an official build is already available;
In summary, we want people to have access to work and knowledge alike. Sharing is good and courtesy and ethics go a long way.
Developers with questions, comments, complaints, or concerns about our rules (or anything!) should send a PM to our Dev Relations team (efrant or sykopompos) or to a Moderator. We are here to help!
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Have at it!
Liking what I am seeing. Well done
zelendel said:
Liking what I am seeing. Well done
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Hey bud
Kinda miss seeing you around
Hope you are well....
I like it
looks good to me, no unofficial builds of officially supported devices is the icing on the cake :good: :highfive:
BeansTown106 said:
looks good to me, no unofficial builds of officially supported devices is the icing on the cake :good: :highfive:
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Let's clarify, for all those developers that have no issue with unofficial builds, they can stay. This would only come into play for those developers who do not wish to allow unofficial builds. A suggestion would be to add that to your OP (many just use a C&P OP with specifics for the device being posted) if you don't want unofficial builds posted.
We will not be removing unofficial builds just for the sake of removing them. The current procedure would be followed, where you would report the post using our Report post feature, making mention in the report that you do not allow unofficial builds of your work.
Much better than the old version. One suggestion: When mentioning licenses, make it explicit that distributing any GPL software (like Linux or TWRP) requires making the source code available.
BeansTown106 said:
looks good to me, no unofficial builds of officially supported devices is the icing on the cake :good: :highfive:
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Just to clarify that point, it only applies if the official build is already out.
Scenario: A ROM team says they don't plan to support phone X because no one on the team owns it and is fine with someone else porting it. So, a non-affiliated developer ports the ROM, but a year later, a member of the official team gets phone X and wants to officially support it. At the point of the release of the official build, no other unofficial builds are allowed, but the original one is grandfathered in. It wouldn't be fair to that developer if his unofficial build that he worked on for the last year was shut down just because someone on the official team changed his mind on owning a device.
Of course, the optimal solution would be for the ROM team to work with and pass on knowledge that helps the unofficial developer and maybe even include him on the team if his work is good.
By the way, none of this is set in stone, so if anyone disagrees with the handling of the above scenario or anything in the revised rule, please provide feedback. We don't necessarily want to get too bogged down in minutiae, but we also want the rule to properly reflect what the community wants. Because in the end, XDA is the community and we are here to support each other.
_that said:
Much better than the old version. One suggestion: When mentioning licenses, make it explicit that distributing any GPL software (like Linux or TWRP) requires making the source code available.
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We did consider that. But there far too many different types of licenses out there to put them in writing. Thus, we needed a more general model. The gpl requirements still stand, not because of our rules but because of gpl itself. Our rules never have and never will truncate license requirements.
jerdog said:
Let's clarify, for all those developers that have no issue with unofficial builds, they can stay. This would only come into play for those developers who do not wish to allow unofficial builds. A suggestion would be to add that to your OP (many just use a C&P OP with specifics for the device being posted) if you don't want unofficial builds posted.
We will not be removing unofficial builds just for the sake of removing them. The current procedure would be followed, where you would report the post using our Report post feature, making mention in the report that you do not allow unofficial builds of your work.
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yea thats what i figured, basically developers who allow unofficials can stay, and those who dont are now allowed to report for takedown
coal686 said:
Just to clarify that point, it only applies if the official build is already out.
Scenario: A ROM team says they don't plan to support phone X because no one on the team owns it and is fine with someone else porting it. So, a non-affiliated developer ports the ROM, but a year later, a member of the official team gets phone X and wants to officially support it. At the point of the release of the official build, no other unofficial builds are allowed, but the original one is grandfathered in. It wouldn't be fair to that developer if his unofficial build that he worked on for the last year was shut down just because someone on the official team changed his mind on owning a device.
Of course, the optimal solution would be for the ROM team to work with and pass on knowledge that helps the unofficial developer and maybe even include him on the team if his work is good.
By the way, none of this is set in stone, so if anyone disagrees with the handling of the above scenario or anything in the revised rule, please provide feedback. We don't necessarily want to get too bogged down in minutiae, but we also want the rule to properly reflect what the community wants. Because in the end, XDA is the community and we are here to support each other.
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that seems fair enough and makes total sense
Don't see any flaws in there. Great job!
Sent from my YUNIQUE using XDA Labs
egzthunder1 said:
Hey bud
Kinda miss seeing you around
Hope you are well....
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All is well. Hope they are with you as well.
I'm always around lol just wanted to step back for a bit while everything was sorted.
This revision to the rule is long in coming. And seems just about perfect. Ill post my thoughts more after my gf birthday dinner tonight.
coal686 said:
Just to clarify that point, it only applies if the official build is already out.
Scenario: A ROM team says they don't plan to support phone X because no one on the team owns it and is fine with someone else porting it. So, a non-affiliated developer ports the ROM, but a year later, a member of the official team gets phone X and wants to officially support it. At the point of the release of the official build, no other unofficial builds are allowed, but the original one is grandfathered in. It wouldn't be fair to that developer if his unofficial build that he worked on for the last year was shut down just because someone on the official team changed his mind on owning a device.
Of course, the optimal solution would be for the ROM team to work with and pass on knowledge that helps the unofficial developer and maybe even include him on the team if his work is good.
By the way, none of this is set in stone, so if anyone disagrees with the handling of the above scenario or anything in the revised rule, please provide feedback. We don't necessarily want to get too bogged down in minutiae, but we also want the rule to properly reflect what the community wants. Because in the end, XDA is the community and we are here to support each other.
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+1
Very well explained.
Hopefully this goes some way to help developers feel like they want to be here and have a bit more control of their work. Great initiative
Nice job!
I agree with Zelendel and I think, as does he, that this revision to rule 12 is just about perfect, the only thing I would question is the unofficial builds thing... Technically if the work is licensed under Apache (sort of) or GPL (definitely) then we don't have much say in the matter (3rd party license should still outweigh our rules).
Jonny said:
I agree with Zelendel and I think, as does he, that this revision to rule 12 is just about perfect, the only thing I would question is the unofficial builds thing... Technically if the work is licensed under Apache (sort of) or GPL (definitely) then we don't have much say in the matter (3rd party license should still outweigh our rules).
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In that case, ROM developers can just start modifying the Apache license to say explicitly that unofficial builds of officially supported devices are not allowed to be distributed. Because they complied with the AOSP's Apache license when forking the work, they can set their own terms at will. I don't like that though because then every ROM is going to have their own license terms and it'd become a complete nightmare to work with.
Jonny said:
I agree with Zelendel and I think, as does he, that this revision to rule 12 is just about perfect, the only thing I would question is the unofficial builds thing... Technically if the work is licensed under Apache (sort of) or GPL (definitely) then we don't have much say in the matter (3rd party license should still outweigh our rules).
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If that's the case, someone could post a GPL-licensed tool to circumvent payment in paid apps on XDA. So clearly 3rd party licenses do not outweigh forum rules.
The Flash said:
In that case, ROM developers can just start modifying the Apache license to say explicitly that unofficial builds of officially supported devices are not allowed to be distributed. Because they complied with the AOSP's Apache license when forking the work, they can set their own terms at will. I don't like that though because then every ROM is going to have their own license terms and it'd become a complete nightmare to work with.
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Agree totally, that would make our job a nightmare like you said. I don't think we are ever going to get a solution that makes everyone 100% happy but I think the new change is about the best we are ever going to get, it's great that it has been well received by both mods and devs
I'm not a dev so i know this doesn't apply to people like me, but can this be explained to me - I'm not clever enough to figure this out:
Rule 12-3 from your new beta draft states:
Re-releasing other's works as your own is forbidden. The code that you release into the wild must have something beyond minor aesthetic changes that makes it better than the last. As this can be subjective, kang reports will be reviewed on a case by case basis. If you feel that your code has been kanged, please contact the Dev Relations team (listed below) if you cannot solve the issue amicably via PM. Please understand that you will be asked to provide evidence to substantiate your claim;
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From my previous post in that other thread:
Attention:
Redistribution, modifying files used within this project's file or integrating with other projects are prohibited with no exceptions other than my projects.
Making mirrors, re-uploading to another servers are also prohibited with no exceptions.
If you will do something which prohibited ask me for permission. If you do without my permission i will report you
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He never owned the htc/samsung/lg created rom in the first place, and didn't create any of the mods within his rom.
From what i can tell with the new rule, as long as he gives credits to the original creator of the mods within his rom, he can still lock his rom down as he hasn't broken any rules.
I probably have the complete 'wrong end of the stick' here...