As you may already know, the latest Samsung firmwares came with a new secured bootloader. You can recognize it in download mode easily. It states: Knox warranty void: 0x0 or 0x1.
As for now, there is no way to reset that flag from 0x1 to 0x0.
Then I read in a comment of Chainfires post concerning that flag, that as long as you do not try to downgrade to a non secured bootloader, this flag will not change. He claims to have that information directly from Samsung.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+Chainfire/posts
Jeffery Butler said:
FYI...Samsung told me that Knox warranty becomes 0x1(void) when the device with secured bootloader attempts to have non-secured bootloader. MH1 is the very first binary with secured bootloader. If MH1 is attempted to be downgraded to lower version(i.e. MGD) which has non-secured bootloader, then Knox warranty becomes void forever, and this means that the device can be used only for non-Knox device(no container can be created).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Has anyone already experience with rooting an "untouched" S4 which has the secured bootloader and can confirm or decline that?
- - - - - - - - - -
Conclusions and Facts about KNOX-enabled firmwares (based on statements from chainfires post and it's comments above, ans based on this thread)
Not possible to downgrade to KNOX-disabled firmwares/bootloaders (An attempt sets 0x1) (even though some people state, downgrade is possible when omitting the bootloader file in a firmware package: see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2444671, not confirmed)
Even if you flash a KNOX-enabled firmware via odin (e.g. the latest fw) knox will be set to 0x1
Flashing unsigned or modified images via odin will set knox to 0x1
Samsung stated, resetting the flag is impossible
KNOX is mandatory and can not be completely removed
Warranty Void is no counter, it is a flag (0,1) it was never seen 0x2 or so
Mirroring all partitions from a clean 0x0-Device to a 0x1-Device via JTAG produces an unfunctional device (reversible by restoring the 0x1 partitions on the phone)
KNOX bootloader verifies signatures of kernels and recoveries. No custom ones possible without voiding the knox warranty
Assumptions on how KNOX flag in bootloader works:
Some experts think, an eFuse is involved. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFUSE). An eFuse is mostly only incremential. Even unwriteable by low level tools or JTAG. But it is still not proven, that eFuse is used.
Knox technical information:
https://www.samsungknox.com/overview/technical-details
Also interested in this..
(don't really have high expectations though... )
I used the CF Auto Root to root an unlocked i9505 and the flag changed. I have since un-rooted and restored to factory settings however the flag remains the same and no Knox container can be created on the device now.
If anybody has an update to a solution for this that would be greatly appreciated.
My status changed to 0x1 after flashing full NON-ROOTED , UNTOUCHED XXUDMGG with STOCK KERNEL MH1!!! :/
In my case STOCK KERNEL triggered this flag! When I tried to downgrade the FW it always failed in Odin and KNOX WARRANTY wasn't increased...
It's really confusing and it looks like Samsung is lying to us....
Lie about what?
DjeMBeY said:
My status changed to 0x1 after flashing full NON-ROOTED , UNTOUCHED XXUDMGG with STOCK KERNEL MH1!!! :/
In my case STOCK KERNEL triggered this flag! When I tried to downgrade the FW it always failed in Odin and KNOX WARRANTY wasn't increased...
It's really confusing and it looks like Samsung is lying to us....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You flashed stock firmware and you voided KNOX Warranty?
Damn...
I wish you good luck in trying to figure out what to do now!
In the same Chainfire Google+ post, somebody mentioned there could be a so called 'eFuse'.
Like a normal fuse, a piece of hardware gets broken beyond repair. The 'e' means that this can be triggered and checked by software.
But I am no expert, this is just hearsay.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda app-developers app
bungadudu said:
Lie about what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About details... This flag should change ONLY if you try to downgrade the bootloader but it's not the case...
nfsmw_gr said:
You flashed stock firmware and you voided KNOX Warranty?
Damn...
I wish you good luck in trying to figure out what to do now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm really angry! :/
I simply repacked MGG and included previous STOCK Kernel MH1... KNOX WARRANTO VOID = 0x1
WTF Samsung????!!????!!! :/
seems samsung also checks kernel and recovery binaries. whenever something tries to bypass knox the flag is incremented.
OT: It sucks and I really will sell S4 for Nexus 5 when it's released
theq86 said:
seems samsung also checks kernel and recovery binaries. whenever something tries to bypass knox the flag is incremented.
OT: It sucks and I really will sell S4 for Nexus 5 when it's released
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Samsung's aim was to make the Knox functionality as 'secure' as possible and it seems to have worked (for now) and so is fulfilling its intended purpose. When I first heard about it, it seemed to be something intended for business/enterprise mobile use, so wasn't expecting it to roll out to all consumer handsets (especially not fully enforcing it).
Once the flag is incremented does that mean that the knox functionality can no longer be used? I know we all want to have a choice, but are the current consequences just that we are unable to downgrade firmware?
harise100 said:
In the same Chainfire Google+ post, somebody mentioned there could be a so called 'eFuse'.
Like a normal fuse, a piece of hardware gets broken beyond repair. The 'e' means that this can be triggered and checked by software.
But I am no expert, this is just hearsay.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. Offtopic... I remember the Xbox 360 used a similar thing, 192 fuses and one was blown every time the bootloader and/or dashboard was updated, eventually they started using this to prevent downgrades and detect tampering.
They want Knox-enabled firmwares to run on totally secure, untampered phones. Not surprising, really.
jas0nuk said:
Interesting. Offtopic... I remember the Xbox 360 used a similar thing, 192 fuses and one was blown every time the bootloader and/or dashboard was updated, eventually they started using this to prevent downgrades and detect tampering.
They want Knox-enabled firmwares to run on totally secure, untampered phones. Not surprising, really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I am always a fan of full reversibility. It's like a flaw to me to have a visual mark that I changed something.
If that Knox flag would touch the warranty only in case you used the phone in a company, and would not change anything for normal users I could live with is. But how to distinguish exactly between private and corporate usage?
It's unfair to be forced this way...
Does anyone know hot o downgrade ABOOT.MBN
I tried to do JTAG with an old bootloader and now i have no power at all, If I do JTAG with a new bootloader, then phone works fine again.
Even all partition from a good old phone I have copied to new I9505 and as soon flash pass, no power up at all.
Any idea how to downgrade ABOOT.MBN and good scripts to do that?
Thanks.
exprxp said:
I tried to do JTAG with an old bootloader and now i have no power at all, If I do JTAG with a new bootloader, then phone works fine again.
Even all partition from a good old phone I have copied to new I9505 and as soon flash pass, no power up at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another indicator for an eFuse. Even with JTAG you can not reprogram the fuse chip. It could be a check somewhere in the low level firmware, or even in PBL for the knox warranty state...
Remember, it could have been there since S4 release. Just that the new bootloader enabled the fuse thing.
theq86 said:
Another indicator for an eFuse. Even with JTAG you can not reprogram the fuse chip. It could be a check somewhere in the low level firmware, or even in PBL for the knox warranty state...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I haven't tried yet to replace eMMC chip, I think that KNOX security inside that chip. I tried to do JTAG via USB Recovery tool for QDLOAD device. When my phone works fine I just shot Resistor on a board and phone will go into QDLOAD by itself.
I will try all ways then I can write you back the status of my job.
I'm very interested in the qdload thing. If I got it right, you can do jtag via usb? how ? what tools needed ?
DjeMBeY said:
I simply repacked MGG and included previous STOCK Kernel MH1... KNOX WARRANTO VOID = 0x1
WTF Samsung????!!????!!! :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So basically you flashed a modified and thus nonofficial firmware?
SAFE with Knox
I am not a developer so I just add here a few links from Engadget:
It's an IT manager's pipe dream, of sorts. A comprehensive collection of features that include Security Enhanced (SE) Android, secure boot, TrustZone-based Integrity Monitoring (TIMA) for protecting the kernel, Single Sign On (SSO) and that application container concept made famous by BlackBerry, just to name a few
Feb 2013 - Samsung announces SAFE with Knox
http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/25/samsung-safe-with-knox/
May 2013 - Samsung Knox gets official DoD approval for government use
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/03/samsung-knox-gets-official-dod-approval-for-government-use/
Sept 2013 - Samsung opens up Knox security platform to all consumers - HAPPY people!
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/samsung-opens-up-knox-security-platform-to-all-consumers/
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/lookout-knox/
So it is a 'Feature' - we still should have the option to say 'No thanks'.
trveller72 said:
I am not a developer so I just add here a few links from Engadget:
It's an IT manager's pipe dream, of sorts. A comprehensive collection of features that include Security Enhanced (SE) Android, secure boot, TrustZone-based Integrity Monitoring (TIMA) for protecting the kernel, Single Sign On (SSO) and that application container concept made famous by BlackBerry, just to name a few
Feb 2013 - Samsung announces SAFE with Knox
http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/25/samsung-safe-with-knox/
May 2013 - Samsung Knox gets official DoD approval for government use
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/03/samsung-knox-gets-official-dod-approval-for-government-use/
Sept 2013 - Samsung opens up Knox security platform to all consumers - HAPPY people!
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/samsung-opens-up-knox-security-platform-to-all-consumers/
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/lookout-knox/
So it is a 'Feature' - we still should have the option to say 'No thanks'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
darn it.. Samsung :x :screwy::screwy:
Send my E-960/S4 LTE/N2 GSM and /Galaxy Y to xda
Does knox warranty change the device status to unofficial? If so, this will also break Miracast/screen mirroring (HDCP fails) permanently until one is able to reset the counter.
Does anyone know for sure if you can get OTA updates if you uproot and reset your tablet? Or is Knox being tripped the thing that causes you to not get OTA?
Thanks.
Depending on root method and version of recovery installed these tablets may complain that they're modified and refuse to update. Fundamentally though the cardinal rule of rooting Android devices is NEVER blindly search for and apply OTA updates once you're rooted unless you know what you're doing. There's no guarantee (other than Nexus devices) that a manufacturer isn't attempting to patch a root exploit as part of their OTA so there's risk of not only losing root but losing the ability to root in the future.
Here's another recent discussion on your question.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-pro-12/general/rooted-updates-t2851529
Just as an update, after unrooting and doing a factory restore on the tablet, it's still considered "modified" and won't download OTA updates. I guess it goes off knox being tripped. That's to bad. I was looking to sell mine, gonna be harder now.
My understanding is as long as your rooted with stock recovery you will still receive updates, my note 2 had knox tripped but was rooted with stock recovery and I was able to get AT&T kit Kat update.
cnote74 said:
My understanding is as long as your rooted with stock recovery you will still receive updates, my note 2 had knox tripped but was rooted with stock recovery and I was able to get AT&T kit Kat update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't seem to be the case with this tablet.
I have stock recovery, unrooted, and did a factory reset. It won't let me get OTA updates. Granted, I can still get them from Kies.
I could be missing something though, not sure what.
Hello Community!!
I have owned many androids over the years, and have recently got an S6, hoping to dive back into the game of rooting, modding and messing around until my phones works the way i want it to. There are MANY things that really Piss me off about my T-MObile variant of the S6, including the horrible battery life, bloatware, and lack of personality. I Really would love to root my device, but KNOX. OMG what is this?! If i Root, no Samsung pay? What other downsides are there to rooting? But recently, my phone installed "ANdroid Pay" SO I am thinking, I should just root, forget Samsung pay and just use Google pay or whatever they call it.
As you guys can tell from my sig, I have been very inactive on these forums. I am hoping someone can give me some advice here---
Thanks So much
EMilio
beforedenied said:
Hello Community!!
I have owned many androids over the years, and have recently got an S6, hoping to dive back into the game of rooting, modding and messing around until my phones works the way i want it to. There are MANY things that really Piss me off about my T-MObile variant of the S6, including the horrible battery life, bloatware, and lack of personality. I Really would love to root my device, but KNOX. OMG what is this?! If i Root, no Samsung pay? What other downsides are there to rooting? But recently, my phone installed "ANdroid Pay" SO I am thinking, I should just root, forget Samsung pay and just use Google pay or whatever they call it.
As you guys can tell from my sig, I have been very inactive on these forums. I am hoping someone can give me some advice here---
Thanks So much
EMilio
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are pros and cons to root.
The first pro is limitless customizations and personalizations.
The first con is OTA updates get disabled.
Another pro is you are able to dramatically improve battery and overall performance using various apps.
Another con is your warranty will be void, assuming you tripped KNOX.
If you trip KNOX, Samsung Pay no longer works; if you have root (even without touching KNOX) Android Pay does not work.
I obtained root just to prove to myself it could be done.
Since then there have been dramatic improvements with speed and battery life.
Package Disabler Pro can freeze a lot of the bloatware without root: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ospolice.packagedisablerpro&hl=en
Hi,
It's a highly personal decision. I myself for the first time am holding on rooting - I was the one who made the most famous Xoom rooting tool and also S4 Linux Root Script, so that tells a lot. The thing is, meanwhile my device is satisfying my needs, and I'm really curious about Samsung Pay, as it has a way wider support than Android Pay and other systems.
The best thing about rooting in my opinion was the endless system customization - specially after Xposed was released. The way better data management I had, better system control and some exclusive apps that require root or works better with root. If you are really pissed about Samsung TouchWiz apps and system "features", rooting would be a nice idea. Just keep in mind that after rooting Knox will be tripped and there's no turning back with Knox. Depending on your country, Knox trip also means warranty void, because once rooted you can unroot and make it looks like nothing happened.
Just adding what was already said, but Android Pay doesn't work with root.
All the best,
~Lord
Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
XxLordxX said:
Hi,
It's a highly personal decision. I myself for the first time am holding on rooting - I was the one who made the most famous Xoom rooting tool and also S4 Linux Root Script, so that tells a lot. The thing is, meanwhile my device is satisfying my needs, and I'm really curious about Samsung Pay, as it has a way wider support than Android Pay and other systems.
The best thing about rooting in my opinion was the endless system customization - specially after Xposed was released. The way better data management I had, better system control and some exclusive apps that require root or works better with root. If you are really pissed about Samsung TouchWiz apps and system "features", rooting would be a nice idea. Just keep in mind that after rooting Knox will be tripped and there's no turning back with Knox. Depending on your country, Knox trip also means warranty void, because once rooted you can unroot and make it looks like nothing happened.
Just adding what was already said, but Android Pay doesn't work with root.
All the best,
~Lord
Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting doesn't allways mean tripped knox. I have my G920F rooted and knox intact. This can be done even after updrade to 5.1.1 stok firmware.
An android phone for me is worthless without root permissions. I need it for:
adaway adds
iptables (firewall)
better battery life (debloat)
titanium backup
JuanRamiro said:
Rooting doesn't allways mean tripped knox. I have my G920F rooted and knox intact. This can be done even after updrade to 5.1.1 stok firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was only aware of root that can be applied before upgrade to 5.1.1.
Can you advise how you applied root after 5.1.1? Thanks.
Iceman_jkh said:
I was only aware of root that can be applied before upgrade to 5.1.1.
Can you advise how you applied root after 5.1.1? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just install de 5.0.2 engineering bootloader via ODIN. Then instal TRWP via ODIN.
After this two steps you can flash whatever you want via TRWP.
Edit: with the 5.0.2 bootloader you will loose fingerprint scanner, the rest works great, at least with the custom rom I am using.
JuanRamiro said:
Just install de 5.0.2 engineering bootloader via ODIN. Then instal TRWP via ODIN.
After this two steps you can flash whatever you want via TRWP.
Edit: with the 5.0.2 bootloader you will loose fingerprint scanner, the rest works great, at least with the custom rom I am using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind this engineering bootloader does not work with all variants. For example there is no Eng Bootloader for the Canadian phones.
Thank you both. I have the international SM-G920F (technically it's the dual Sim version, SM-G920FD, (from United Arab Emirates)).
So, to confirm, would the eng boot loader still work on my device variant, and allow root without tripping KNOX?
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Iceman_jkh said:
Thank you both. I have the international SM-G920F (technically it's the dual Sim version, SM-G920FD, (from United Arab Emirates)).
So, to confirm, would the eng boot loader still work on my device variant, and allow root without tripping KNOX?
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the single sim version of the G920F, so I don't know if it will work with the dual sim.
I don't think that it will strip you knox...
... and I think that if your phone doesn't work with this bootloader, you can just flash the correct one and make it work again.
But these are just guesses... you decide if you want to take the risk.
Good luck.
JuanRamiro said:
I have the single sim version of the G920F, so I don't know if it will work with the dual sim.
I don't think that it will strip you knox...
... and I think that if your phone doesn't work with this bootloader, you can just flash the correct one and make it work again.
But these are just guesses... you decide if you want to take the risk.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I did some additional research, thanks to your advice about eng boot loader, and seems like it will work ☺
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
JuanRamiro said:
I have the single sim version of the G920F, so I don't know if it will work with the dual sim.
I don't think that it will strip you knox...
... and I think that if your phone doesn't work with this bootloader, you can just flash the correct one and make it work again.
But these are just guesses... you decide if you want to take the risk.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I wouldn't risk that "you can just flash the correct one and make it work again". If you know how a bootloader work, if it gets broken there is no way to get to Download Mode and flash a new firmware/bootloader.
For information sake, a bootloader is a piece of software that is the first thing loaded when you boot your device, it comes before anything, be it kernel, be it recovery or anything else, that means, if you have a broken bootloader, the moment you try to boot your device up, it will try loading BL and it will fail, so it will shut down back again. I've had a broken BL once before on S4, the only way to recover was a direct flash of software in system chip using a tool called JTAG.
So, all I can say to users who still didn't get it: beware with this. It seems that many people are getting successful results, but it's an extremely risk procedure, make sure you read every single instruction and follow it, the possibility of a hard brick is high.
Even still, it's a great find, thanks for sharing with me, I didn't know of this until early today .
All the best,
~Lord
I wonder whether Samsung pay will work again after reflash stock rom after root? Is it like knox, once rooted you will never have it no mater what you do including going back to pure stock?
XxLordxX said:
Depending on your country, Knox trip also means warranty void, because once rooted you can unroot and make it looks like nothing happened.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you mean, once rooted we can unroot and install the stock firmware and hence tripped Knox will be restored as well?
Or the unrooting will only help to restore the stock but the knox will continue to remain tripped. I would like to know this as I am considering purchasing S6. The last samsung phone I owned was S2 and used that for 3 full years with out any problems.
Thanks.
coolmalayalee said:
Did you mean, once rooted we can unroot and install the stock firmware and hence tripped Knox will be restored as well?
Or the unrooting will only help to restore the stock but the knox will continue to remain tripped. I would like to know this as I am considering purchasing S6. The last samsung phone I owned was S2 and used that for 3 full years with out any problems.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once Knox is tripped its tripped but, yes you can flash original firmware and as long as you factory reset it, it will be unrooted and ready for official updates.
jetbruceli said:
Once Knox is tripped its tripped but, yes you can flash original firmware and as long as you factory reset it, it will be unrooted and ready for official updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. But can you be a bit more specific of if the unrooting, flashing stock, and factory resting will finally untrip the tripped Knox as well? My question in the event I need to take this back to a service center to claim warranty for whatever reason, is there any way for them to know that I have voided warranty if I unroot, flash back the stock and factory reset?
coolmalayalee said:
Thanks. But can you be a bit more specific of if the unrooting, flashing stock, and factory resting will finally untrip the tripped Knox as well? My question in the event I need to take this back to a service center to claim warranty for whatever reason, is there any way for them to know that I have voided warranty if I unroot, flash back the stock and factory reset?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once tripped there is no going back. Voided warranty depends on laws of your country and your retailers policy.
coolmalayalee said:
Thanks. But can you be a bit more specific of if the unrooting, flashing stock, and factory resting will finally untrip the tripped Knox as well? My question in the event I need to take this back to a service center to claim warranty for whatever reason, is there any way for them to know that I have voided warranty if I unroot, flash back the stock and factory reset?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YOU CAN NOT UNTRIP KNOX, you can reflash your firmware from Sammobile, http://www.sammobile.com/firmwares/database/SM-G920F/
use odin and then after you flash, go into recovery or use system settings and conduct a factory reset. It will say Official in the status but, since they will reflash your rom anyways, they will see the knox trip.
It depends on where you purschased your device whether or not they will warranty it with Knox tripped.
Honestly, anyone who roots should understand this information before hand. You should always know how to return to stock unroot.
Jameslwoodward said:
I wonder whether Samsung pay will work again after reflash stock rom after root? Is it like knox, once rooted you will never have it no mater what you do including going back to pure stock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After rooting my 5.1.1 without tripping Knox, with the 5.0.2 engineering bootloader (as as described a few posts ago) I have flashed a stok rom with odin and then everything went back as it was before the rooting procedure.
1. I was on stok oficial rom with oficial bootloader.
2. I lost root.
3. Knox was still intact: 0.
4. Fingerprint scanner and MyKnox worked again.
So: after upgrade to 5.1.1, rooting with the 5.0.2 engineering bootloader seems to be safe and also easy to bo back to stock... at least for my model (G920F)
i want knox back , is there anyway ? does installing official firmware through odin will solve this and will it effect the network unlock?
bg: i bought a used note 5 so prolly the original user rooted the device.
Root doesn't necessarily trip knox. Afaik, installing a custom recovery does. Once it's been tripped. There is no going back. I want to say I read somewhere that a fuse or something hardware related actually breaks.
They introduced it in the S4 - once the q-fuse / e-fuse is tripped, it's done and gone. No going back. It's not a hardware fuse (at least, it wasn't back then), but it isn't something that can be fixed - at least, nobody's managed it yet.
Thanks folks. so i think there is nothing now that is holding me back to try these roms and mods.
Thread closed by OP request.