Database Info

3G Frequencies

Is there a way to change the 3G Frequencies on the G1 to support AT&T 3G network?

Nope, thats a hardware issue.

I thought it was possibly a software issue. If not, is there a way to change out the chip or the incompatable part to make it compatible?

card13 said:
I thought it was possibly a software issue. If not, is there a way to change out the chip or the incompatable part to make it compatible?
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Click to collapse
Nope...not going to work for many reasons.

been answered plenty plenty of times.

From what I can figure a hardware change may not be required with the correct radio but we dont know the right radio without the right hardware. lol I know that makes no sense but it makes as much sense as anyone can make of it thus far. When its possible I assure you I will be among the first to do it. Although Im not ready to try installing a new radio without first acquiring a backup phone but if I do Im gonna give it a try and maybe have better luck than the last guy to try.

What about a mini-usb attachment that can receive atnt signals?
I am sure with that and the right software manipulation it could work.

sjbayer3 said:
What about a mini-usb attachment that can receive atnt signals?
I am sure with that and the right software manipulation it could work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While it sounds great in theory I doubt anyone would put forth the resources for such a limited market.
You would be best off getting android to work on existing AT&T hardware.

in order to do it we would need hardware which would plug in the bottom and software to tell the phone to use the signal from the attachment.
while there wouldnt be millions in the market i guarantee there are hundreds.
if anyone wants to think about it i dont mind making 50 of em and selling for cost. i have some hook ups in the engineering field i work in

ok, my question is... Europe 3g is diff than tmob usa 3g, but is tmob europe the same 3g setup as US? and if europe 3g is same as tmob europe 3g, is att US 3g same as europe 3g. so if tmob europe is same as europe 3g then a europe g1 should work on att US 3g. am i coming thru clear or am i jumping all over?
Shaggy

Shagman68 said:
ok, my question is... Europe 3g is diff than tmob usa 3g, but is tmob europe the same 3g setup as US? and if europe 3g is same as tmob europe 3g, is att US 3g same as europe 3g. so if tmob europe is same as europe 3g then a europe g1 should work on att US 3g. am i coming thru clear or am i jumping all over?
Shaggy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The American G1 has 3G support for HSDPA 1700 MHz & 2100 MHz, both bands I believe are used by T-Mobile. In Europe I believe they use only 2100 MHz band for 3G.
AT&T on the other hand uses 850 and 1900 MHz HSDPA
The phone has the capability for 2G at 850 and 1900 MHz, so technically it can be used on their network, just not at 3G speeds.
Although technically it's possible to design a Phase-Locked Loop to operate at a variable frequency and to be tuned with jumpers or something, it's probably cheaper for them or they might be subsidized to make phones so that they are exclusive for one network in the US.
To me the ideal is more about standardizing the protocols and the frequencies used for all companies, and having all bands available for traffic. But at least in the short-term that's not really good for business and so probably won't happen for a while.
This is all based entirely on a limited amount of research and my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

Europe uses 1900/2100 in a pair (1900 is the uplink, 2100 is the downlink). (source)
Most phones produced these days are tri or quad band and can work (almost) anywhere.. I'm surprised the G1 isn't.

Shagman68 said:
ok, my question is... Europe 3g is diff than tmob usa 3g, but is tmob europe the same 3g setup as US? and if europe 3g is same as tmob europe 3g, is att US 3g same as europe 3g. so if tmob europe is same as europe 3g then a europe g1 should work on att US 3g. am i coming thru clear or am i jumping all over?
Shaggy
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Click to collapse
TonyHoyle said:
Europe uses 1900/2100 in a pair (1900 is the uplink, 2100 is the downlink). (source)
Most phones produced these days are tri or quad band and can work (almost) anywhere.. I'm surprised the G1 isn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*sigh*.
Folks, you need to learn about UMTS bands before complaining about that the G1 or any other phone can't do this or that when it certainly can.
The G1 is a 3g worldphone. It works on the US 1700 AWS network (UMTS Band IV) and works on the world's 2100 network (UMTS Band I). ATT uses the 1900 Band (UMTS Band II).
Apparently the common names for these networks is being confused with the actual operating frequencies because they don't upload and download on the same frequencies. The 1900 band is not the same as the 2100 band, even though the 2100 band (UMTS Band I) uploads in the 1900mhz frequency and downloads at the 2100mhz frequency range. The 1900 Band (UMTS Band II) uploads on the upper half of the 1800mhz and downloads on the 1900mhz frequency range. UMTS Band II uploads on the frequencies that UMTS Band I downloads.
These bands separate.
TMO 3g band is different from ATT 3g band which is also different from EU 3g band.
The 1700 band (UMTS band IV) is actually made up of 2 frequency ranges like the other bands I and II are: 1700mhz and 2100mhz. In fact, the 2100mhz download range for UMTS Band IV is within the same frequencies used for the Band I download range, theoretically making it cheaper/easier for manufacturers who make Band I phones to "support" UMTS Band IV phone production.
Most phones produced today are NOT "tri or quad-band" 3g phones. In fact, I have yet to find a quad-band 3g phone. If quad-band 3g phones were made, they would be very likely to support the T-Mobile 3g network, because it's the 4th largest UMTS band type (behind Band I, II, and V). I would be very shocked to find a phone which was 2100/1900/900/850 instead of 2100/1900/1700/850.
And the G1 is a worldphone. It works just fine on UMTS in Europe. It is a band I and band IV device.
read these 2 links:
http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands#UMTS-FDD
So to clarify, when you see a list of support bands, this is what you should interpret from those advertised bands:
2100 Band = UMTS Band I (The entire world outside of North America)
1900 Band = UMTS Band II (The Americas, ATT)
1700 Band = UMTS Band IV (The Americas, TMO)
900 Band = UMTS Band VIII (Australia)
850 Band = UMTS Band V (The Americas, ATT)
Outside of North America, the 2100 band is almost universally deployed, even where the 850,900,1700 or 1900 band is deployed.

Using MT4GS outside US

Hi everyone.. I'm planning to get this device and use it outside the US (mainly China and Indonesia).
Will the 3G work in those 2 countries? From the specs sheet, I understand that MT4GS support UMTS 2100. So theoretically, there should be no problem, since China and Indonesia use UMTS 2100 band, but it would be better if someone with personal experience can confirm this.
Anyone here has any experience using MT4GS outside the US?

yep. I am. In the Netherlands. Don't know what band i am though. And i had to unlock the device before i could use it.

I'm in Canada, working fine on the regular GSM bands but I only get 2G speeds when using data...thinking about switching to a UMTS provider.

nldroid said:
yep. I am. In the Netherlands. Don't know what band i am though. And i had to unlock the device before i could use it.
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Click to collapse
so just to be clear.. your handset has no problem using 3G connection right? as far as i know, the netherlands also use UMTS 2100 band
mat_oli said:
I'm in Canada, working fine on the regular GSM bands but I only get 2G speeds when using data...thinking about switching to a UMTS provider.
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Click to collapse
why do you only get 2G when using data? is it due to the provider or the handset?

forzanetti said:
so just to be clear.. your handset has no problem using 3G connection right? as far as i know, the netherlands also use UMTS 2100 band
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Click to collapse
Yep i don't have any problems using the 3G connection. Just needed to find the right APN settings.
And according this site (and a couple of others):
http://www.worldtimezone.com/gsm.html
It's indeed the 2100 band.

nldroid said:
Yep i don't have any problems using the 3G connection. Just needed to find the right APN settings.
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Click to collapse
Great!! one less thing to worry then so I think there isn't any limitations if this device is used outside the US, as long as the UMTS band is correct.
Thanks a lot!

forzanetti said:
so just to be clear.. your handset has no problem using 3G connection right? as far as i know, the netherlands also use UMTS 2100 band
why do you only get 2G when using data? is it due to the provider or the handset?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's due to the provider, they don't operate on the 2100 band, so I can only use their 2G network.

mat_oli said:
It's due to the provider, they don't operate on the 2100 band, so I can only use their 2G network.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the info!! Now I feel more encouraged to get this device

I found this in the review section of this phone in phonearena :
Global travelers will like the handset very much since it can be used just about anywhere around the world for phone calls, but 3G and 4G data speeds can only be experience domestically through T-Mobile’s AWS band. However, you can still achieve 2G EDGE speeds with other network carriers.
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Click to collapse
now I'm confused again

2G it is GSM that can be used anyware in the world that supports GSM however 3G on different carriers uses different bands and different technology, Tmob uses a AWS* some carriers use this for there 3G.... Check if your carrier uses AWS for its 3G.
I know that Canada has WIND and Mobilicity that use AWS 1.7/2.1 for there 3G,.... that said I don't know about other countrys...
* About AWS in the USA
In September 2006, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) auctioned licenses in the first Advanced Wireless Services band. This band was an area of wireless spectrum, half in the 1700 MHz (1.7 GHz) and half in the 2100 MHz (2.1 GHz) frequencies, that was already in use by government services. The spectrum was planned to become available after the government users migrated to different frequencies.

Mistix said:
2G it is GSM that can be used anyware in the world that supports GSM however 3G on different carriers uses different bands and different technology, Tmob uses a AWS* some carriers use this for there 3G.... Check if your carrier uses AWS for its 3G.
I know that Canada has WIND and Mobilicity that use AWS 1.7/2.1 for there 3G,.... that said I don't know about other countrys...
* About AWS in the USA
In September 2006, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) auctioned licenses in the first Advanced Wireless Services band. This band was an area of wireless spectrum, half in the 1700 MHz (1.7 GHz) and half in the 2100 MHz (2.1 GHz) frequencies, that was already in use by government services. The spectrum was planned to become available after the government users migrated to different frequencies.
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Click to collapse
Hi Mistix.. thanks for your reply
Yes I'm aware about the AWS which uses the 1700/2100 band for their 3G and 4G, but according to phonearena, MT4GS supports the following band :
UMTS: 1700/2100, 2100
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which means besides supporting AWS (1700/2100), it also supports the "regular" 2100 UMTS band. The information could be wrong though..
but nldroid has stated that he has no problem using 3G in the Netherlands. And the last time I checked, the Netherlands still use the "regular" 2100 UMTS band (AWS is only available in the states and Canada).

Maybe they mean that if you're T-Mobile USA customer you can only use 2G outside the US with roaming.
I'm definitly on 3G. (it actually says 4G sometimes: http://attachments.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=689448&d=1313411454)

nldroid said:
Maybe they mean that if you're T-Mobile USA customer you can only use 2G outside the US with roaming.
I'm definitly on 3G. (it actually says 4G sometimes: http://attachments.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=689448&d=1313411454)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the pic! Looking forward to get my hand on this baby next month

F350S uncompatible in UK

So i just bought a LG G PRO 2 checked it everything seemed to work fine
But then i realized the network connection drops every few mins and reconnects only to a G signal (2G)
so upon further investigation i discover that the band frequency on this model is CDMA eg. USA + Canada
To say im P*&^ed off is an understatement clearly the person who sold me this is aware and is now ignoring any contact i try to make with him
I have contacted LG to see if i can possible purchase a motherboard for model D837 or D838 as i see this is my only option to get the device working
Unless anyone here can advise otherwise
Once i go into the band selection screen and disable CDMA bands it seems to sustain a stable connection but only to a 2G network haven't been into a 4G area as of yet to test but it is completely incapable of connection to a 3G frequency within the uk which i will be connected to 80% of the time

not 100% with the F350 but the frequencies for it should be:
2G: GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900 MHz
3G: UMTS 2100 MHz
4G: LTE 850 / 1800 MHz
2G is fine, as UK uses 900/1800.
3G: all UK networks at 2100.
4G: only EE/3 use the 1800MHz frequency. no-one uses 850 in UK.
look around the forum for the secret menu and see if you need to enable 3G/4G manually. or do a manual firmware update.

,My Wife has an F320S (G2)and she can enable all Bands in the Hidden Menu and works fine in Europe in Austria.Network Operator is Three (HG3).
I think the F350S is the same.
Go to Dialer and tipe 5457#*350#
in Modem Settings can you aktivate all Bands what you need
I hope this works for you.

Thanks for the reply guys
There's loads of settings in the hidden menu
I cant see how changing anything in here will help as it is a CDMA device which means it physically does not have the necessary hardware to connect to a 3G network in the UK
As it uses a totally different technology than UMTS

Ive discovered at WCDMA is actually UMTS so i cant see why it doesn't work ?

manemzjum said:
Ive discovered at WCDMA is actually UMTS so i cant see why it doesn't work ?
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Click to collapse
WCDMA Channel-Full
Band Selection-Automatic
Rat Mode-Automatic
The Phone reboot automatic when use this Settings

letschky said:
WCDMA Channel-Full
Band Selection-Automatic
Rat Mode-Automatic
The Phone reboot automatic when use this Settings
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are the default settings that the device is on so no joy with that thanks anyway
using my EE sim signal drops frequently using my daughters O2 sim it seems to sustain a connection but again only to 2G network
Clearly the problem is the WCDMA bands on the device are 850 / 1900 / 2100 while 2100 is used here 900 is the more widely available and thus incompatible with device
I think my only option is to sell it on but to who its no use to anyone in the UK really

manemzjum said:
I think my only option is to sell it on but to who its no use to anyone in the UK really
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much you selling it for?

oohaylima said:
How much you selling it for?
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Click to collapse
Just sold on ebay for £165 but its to someone in brazil with 4 feedback

Just missed it.

It's back up as the winner was obviously a scammer

Z3 model d6683: dual sim both 3g and 4g too?

Hi,
my name is Andrea and first of all thanks to give me your attention.
I'm in europe, italy, and was watching Z3 model d6683, it's for chinese market i guess, particular version of dual sim model. Now, i've two sim, the operator is "3 italia", and its signal is from 3g to 4g (if the area is covered by 2g signal only, i go in roaming signal, and can't surf etc). Now, i'm looking for a dual sim phone, and both sim have to get at least 3g signal at the same time. I'm not asking to surf with both sim at the same time, and i'm not asking "dual active", not interested if when i call, the other sim goes airplane mode. I'm asking if Sony Xperia Z3 model d6683 has two sim can get both at least in 3g mode during standby and always in general, cause i surf with one sim, i call with the other one, but this last don't want to go roaming all the time. Hope it's clear.
I can get this particular model because an Eshop has it online, but first need to know this problem.
Hope it can, and battery can last in any case.
Or if you know some other phones...
Thanks

None has it?

Help please, if you know this model can do what im looking for, or just another phone..
Thanks

Bro i also have D6683 in which one sim will work as 4G and other as 2G.
Hope i have helped you

niks20 said:
Bro i also have D6683 in which one sim will work as 4G and other as 2G.
Hope i have helped you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the second one can't get higher than 2g? Are you sure, could be the operator..or is just the phone? And if you put sim 1 to 3g, the second always max 2g?
Thanks a lot, some people told me this phone could be the only one to do what i'm looking for, but i guess it doesn't exist.

|Renovatio| said:
So the second one can't get higher than 2g? Are you sure, could be the operator..or is just the phone? And if you put sim 1 to 3g, the second always max 2g?
Thanks a lot, some people told me this phone could be the only one to do what i'm looking for, but i guess it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
D6683 is designed specifically for the Chinese market. It uses bands that are incompatible with rest of the world, therefore, it would be mostly useless anywhere else.
The following is from xperiablog.net:
Sony Xperia Z3 Dual TD (D6683) network support
– Dual SIM version which supports TD-LTE in China
– 4G FDD LTE: Band 1 (2100), Band 3 (1800), Band 7 (2600)
– 4G TD-LTE: Band 28 (2600 CMCC),Band 39 (1900), Band 40 (2300), Band 41 (2600 Unicom)

czguy said:
D6683 is designed specifically for the Chinese market. It uses bands that are incompatible with rest of the world, therefore, it would be mostly useless anywhere else.
Following is from xperiablog.net
Sony Xperia Z3 Dual TD (D6683) network support
– Dual SIM version which supports TD-LTE in China
– 4G FDD LTE: Band 1 (2100), Band 3 (1800), Band 7 (2600)
– 4G TD-LTE: Band 28 (2600 CMCC),Band 39 (1900), Band 40 (2300), Band 41 (2600 Unicom)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
?
Fdd are here in europe, my operator cover 1800 and 2600 lte. Maybe Tdd too.
But could be enough the fact to support just 3g, but the important would be both sim can get up to that at the same time. I'm just asking this.

|Renovatio| said:
?
Fdd are here in europe, my operator cover 1800 and 2600 lte. Maybe Tdd too.
But could be enough the fact to support just 3g, but the important would be both sim can get up to that at the same time. I'm just asking this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only way to make sure is to test it. When I went to China last month my Z3 Dual worked nicely on Unicom's 2600 band. The first time I've read about D6683, I've got really excited until I've found out that it does not support bands used on North American continent wich makes is useless as a world phone to me. If you plan to use it in Europe only, there is a chance that it will work for you. I was not able to find out what 3G bands D6683 supports because the situation there is quite messy. Chinese 3G network is 80% incompatible for rest of the world, the only network that works with foreign phones is Unicom. It's very similar in Japan as well. Understanding that this phone is targeted for the Chinese market, I am pretty sure that it would be useless in North America (and most likely in Europe as well) on 3G bands. Luckily, with the proliferation of LTE networks while 2G is being slowly phased out, we are going to see more phones supporting simultaneous LTE on both SIMs soon.

czguy said:
The only way to make sure is to test it. When I went to China last month my Z3 Dual worked nicely on Unicom's 2600 band. The first time I've read about D6683, I've got really excited until I've found out that it does not support bands used on North American continent wich makes is useless as a world phone to me. If you plan to use it in Europe only, there is a chance that it will work for you. I was not able to find out what 3G bands D6683 supports because the situation there is quite messy. Chinese 3G network is 80% incompatible for rest of the world, the only network that works with foreign phones is Unicom. It's very similar in Japan as well. Understanding that this phone is targeted for the Chinese market, I am pretty sure that it would be useless in North America (and most likely in Europe as well) on 3G bands. Luckily, with the proliferation of LTE networks while 2G is being slowly phased out, we are going to see more phones supporting simultaneous LTE on both SIMs soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course stay in Europe lol.
But i do not care the fact could not work here, as the fact I want it to support 3g at least at same time.
I guess user niks answerd the question, but i asked to check a few things via mp. But probaly he's right, the phone could show if, after you set connection on sim 1, could support 3g signal on second one. It's impossibile, i have to admit

|Renovatio| said:
Of course stay in Europe lol.
But i do not care the fact could not work here, as the fact I want it to support 3g at least at same time.
I guess user niks answerd the question, but i asked to check a few things via mp. But probaly he's right, the phone could show if, after you set connection on sim 1, could support 3g signal on second one. It's impossibile, i have to admit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I was able to find out about D6683 and band support for 3G slightly differs based on where you look:
2G/Voice Bands 850/900/1800/1900
3G/HSPA Bands 850/900/1700/1900
LTE Bands 1/3/7/38/39/40/41
http://www.expansys.ca/sony-xperia-z3-dual-td-d6683-unlocked-lte-16gb-copper-278237/
2G GSM
3G WCDMA 850 + 900 + 2100
4G TDD LTE B38 + B40
4G FDD LTE B3 + B7
http://www.eprice.com.hk/mobile/intro/5146/sony-xperia-z3-dual-td/
2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
3G Network HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1700 / 1900 / 2100
4G Network FDD LTE : Band 1 (2100), Band 3 (1800), Band 7 (2600)
TD-LTE : Band 28 (2600 CMCC), Band 39 (1900), Band 40 (2300), Band 41 (2600 Unicom)
http://supero.co.nz/sony-xperia-z3-dual-td-d6683-16gb-lte-black/
GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
HSDPA 850/900/1700/1900/2100
TD-LTE (Band 38, 39, 40, 41) FD-LTE (Bands 1, 3, 7)
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Xperia-D6683-Factory-Unlocked/dp/B00YDIEC9A

czguy said:
This is what I was able to find out about D6683 and band support for 3G slightly differs based on where you look:
2G/Voice Bands 850/900/1800/1900
3G/HSPA Bands 850/900/1700/1900
LTE Bands 1/3/7/38/39/40/41
http://www.expansys.ca/sony-xperia-z3-dual-td-d6683-unlocked-lte-16gb-copper-278237/
2G GSM
3G WCDMA 850 + 900 + 2100
4G TDD LTE B38 + B40
4G FDD LTE B3 + B7
http://www.eprice.com.hk/mobile/intro/5146/sony-xperia-z3-dual-td/
2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
3G Network HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1700 / 1900 / 2100
4G Network FDD LTE : Band 1 (2100), Band 3 (1800), Band 7 (2600)
TD-LTE : Band 28 (2600 CMCC), Band 39 (1900), Band 40 (2300), Band 41 (2600 Unicom)
http://supero.co.nz/sony-xperia-z3-dual-td-d6683-16gb-lte-black/
GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
HSDPA 850/900/1700/1900/2100
TD-LTE (Band 38, 39, 40, 41) FD-LTE (Bands 1, 3, 7)
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Xperia-D6683-Factory-Unlocked/dp/B00YDIEC9A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. Maybe we re not understanding each other.
I think it can support 3g and even 4g here. My question is when one sim is on 3g/4g,the other one goes 3g? Not to connect data to surf, just about quality, frequency.. at least..
I'm looking one phone it can do it. Seems does not exist.

|Renovatio| said:
Thank you. Maybe we re not understanding each other.
I think it can support 3g and even 4g here. My question is when one sim is on 3g/4g,the other one goes 3g? Not to connect data to surf, just about quality, frequency.. at least..
I'm looking one phone it can do it. Seems does not exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do understand what you mean. It would have to be tested, however, there is a very good chance that it might since D6683 can simultaneously run on LTE bands using both SIMs which no Z3 Dual (D6633) can do. Most of the networks in Canada where I live use 3G for voice (same in Australia) and regular Z3 Dual is useless in such scenario, however, there is a chance it would work fine with D6683 which would become a dual SIM phone to go to except LTE bands.

Hope it can. Maybe will buy one to test it,directly.

Ok, Sony America and Sony China say it can't, as user niks wrote.
A Shop wrote on the sony z3 product crearly it can.
Will write to that Shop and to sony hong kong for the last time.

I don't know where to find my D6683 stock rom HELPPPP...!!!
Sent from my D6683 using Tapatalk

T-Mobile FREQ that work.

Just wanted to post this as I'm at T-Mobile user and just recently found out that they also use Band 5. So we will be able to use at least Bands 2, 4, 5, and 12. T-Mobile LTE Bands Now what would be awesome would be able to add band 66 or even convert a band. Now sure if thats possible, just wishful thinking.

Been reading about tmobil and sprint for assurance wireless all day just seen your post thank you. Trying to port number to k40 phone but uses sprint towers and sim but am getting closer and closer. Useful info. Here is the site info I found right before this post:
In most markets the T-Mobile 3G / 4G network operates in the Advanced Wireless Services (AWS) 1700/2100 MHz band and/or the Personal Communications Services (PCS) 1900 MHz band using Universal Mobile Telecommunications System (UMTS) and High Speed Packet Access (HSPA) technology. T-Mobile also operates in the 700 MHz band in some markets. 5G devices on T-Mobile’s network must support either 660 MHz (low-band) or 28/39 GHz (mmWave). In order to connect to the T-Mobile 3G / 4G network a device must support UMTS and HSPA technology in the AWS 1700/2100 MHz band and PCS (1900) band. The T-Mobile 2G network operates in the Personal Communications Services (PCS) (1900) band. To connect to this network a device must support GSM technology in the PCS 1900 band
so now i know which towers sprint and assurance can work on for on this much beter phone once i change some settings which i am hoping can be done all by using the built in phone code and changing the settings and adding a custom rom recovery with the use of no PC via ENGINEERING MODE. Any ideas or thoughts, or should I not have wasted your time.