Related
Guys who fear that rooting will void warranty..
But what makes u think that the Service center guys will look if the bootloader is unlocked or not
Lots of people give phones with CM and other custom ROMs flashed to the SC...and that too with a custom recovery...i think which may be needed by the SC guys for software update,wipe etc etc
i myself gave my rooted phone for replacement.. though reverted back to stock rom
If u guys think why dont i go ahead myself..i only reason im afraid of is ..if they have a particular QC test app or something before RMA procedure..which may auto generate the result such as
Camera - check
Speaker - check
Vibration - check
Bootloader - fail - not eligible for warranty
and they strictly reject warranty for the phone because of that..
guys experienced with the warranty procedure for Motorola phones please reply
I rooted mine. I don't usually have hardware problems. So... whatever
I've rooted mine, just keep in mind that you can't unlock the bootloader without getting an authorization code from Motorola. By requesting this code you accept the warranty loss.
Edit:
Motorola requires you to run "fastboot oem get_unlock_data". This data is used to calculate or read the unlock code from their database. Those lines should also be more than enough to blacklist your phone from warranty.
Bootloader status codes
I think I'll wait for a while this time a least four to five months..
Sent from THE motog
I've rooted previous phones, and I thought I'd root this one too... but it's so close to what I want, and I don't want to screw it up (especially battery life).
leppo said:
I've rooted previous phones, and I thought I'd root this one too... but it's so close to what I want, and I don't want to screw it up (especially battery life).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you screw up battery life with a root?
James Randi said:
How can you screw up battery life with a root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I automatically associate rooting with flashing a different rom. But yes, it's different.
Its a $200 phone and rooting is pretty much a necessity to fully take advantage of your hardware. Flashing ROMs isn't as much of a big deal anymore but rooting is where all the fun comes from IMO. If there's no issues with it after a month or so, just do it.
Well, except for those of us unfortunate individuals who rely on Verizon's rural reach. I've got the Verizon Moto G xt1028, and it's not unlockable. At least, not yet. So those of us who bought the xt1028 are waiting and hoping for a different root method. Or different unlock method. Or both, really. Alas, we're forced to run fully stock until then. I'd so love to put GravityBox and a few other root apps.
At first I bought the 8 GB Variant and unlocked it, rooted it installed a custom ROM and I didn't like it because it didn't have so much space,
so what I did was flash everything Stock back again and lock the bootloader and I traded it against a 16 GB Variant and payed an extra 30€.
Now, I don't really care about rooting and custom roms anymore, I use the Stock Firmware from Motorola, latest of course so I get all official OTAs and all Motorola Apps, they probably know how to make everything for their phone so I'll just use it as it is.
In most cases they'll just look for the splash screen to say the warning message but we all got the logo.bin flashed. Worst case scenario they'll check through fastboot.
On Moto G XT1033
In Europe you warranties don't get void due to locked Bootloaders? Its true in all case?
jaspreet997 said:
In Europe you warranties don't get void due to locked Bootloaders? Its true in all case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean unlocked ^^
If you flash software which will could cause a hardbrick or any other hardware failure then, for my knowledge, your warranty might be gone.
The reseller can only refuse warranty if he can proove that damage is caused by rooting, flashing etc.
Law expects that an failure in between six months must be from the beginning.
But after six months you have to proove that this failure was there from the beginning. This can be very tricky.
Only unlocking bootloader or rooting will not void your warranty in the EU. At least not the one which is given by law.
But the manufacturer warranty, which is an additional service of the company, can be voided.
You can read more in this german article which i have translated using microsoft translator.
Francehoaq said:
If warranty is not available then what should i do? thinking..... should i root or not
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nobody can answer that for you. There are advantages and disadvantages doing this.
mokkami said:
You mean unlocked ^^
If you flash software which will could cause a hardbrick or any other hardware failure then, for my knowledge, your warranty might be gone.
The reseller can only refuse warranty if he can proove that damage is caused by rooting, flashing etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, unlocking the bootloader will not void your warranty. Damaging your phone while trying root it, 'may' void your warranty if the seller/manufacturer can tell, and can prove you caused the damage
mokkami said:
Law expects that an failure in between six months must be from the beginning.
But after six months you have to proove that this failure was there from the beginning. This can be very tricky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thought I should clarify this. If a problem occurs with the phone in the first 6 months, the responsibility lies with the manufacturer to
a) Repair
b) Replace
c) Refund
d) Prove the problem does not exist.
If a fault occurs AFTER 6 months, but before the end of the manufacturer warranty. The manufacturer must:
a) Repair
b) Replace
c) Refund
BUT the manufacturer is within their rights to ask the customer to 'Prove' the fault exists and that they did not cause the fault through misuse etc. Usually this would require an engineer or technician report. In reality sellers will almost never do this.
Note: In the UK (and maybe rest of europe) the sale of good acts requires items last for a reasonable amount of time (not just the warranty period) this is I believe 6 years.
SO technically you could claim for repair even up to 6 years, however the responsibility will be with the consumer to prove the fault was in design and manufacture and I 'believe' that it occurred in the first 12 months since purchase. (Very hard for a consumer to prove this)..
mokkami said:
Only unlocking bootloader or rooting will not void your warranty in the EU. At least not the one which is given by law.
But the manufacturer warranty, which is an additional service of the company, can be voided.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what you mean by 'warranty given by law' vs 'manufacture warranty'. The manufacturer is required to give a limited 12 month warranty on all goods as per the sale of goods act. A lot of manufactures will give an 'Additional' warranty, or a warranty that covers a longer period as standard. Samsung & HTC = 2 years, for example. SO, although they only require to give you 1 year, once you have bought the device, with teh 2 year warranty, you have entered a contract and they must honour the full 2 years...
Actually the first 6months is called workmanship warranty. Its unconditional warranty as long as there no blatant damage to the device. If you have tempered with it, then you go into the standard warranty clauses. Which it is then up to the manufacturer to decide weather they will repair it for you. Sometimes at a discounted price when it is in fact your fault. But if you have blatantly damaged your device, you wont be eligible for a warranty. If its software related though, they could give you the benefit of the doubt.
On Moto G XT1033
I got my phone Touch Screen all broken, unlucked the bootloader, rooted, try a little the cm11, and then, a sent it to repair.
Got a new phone even with the warranty avoided.
Just return your phone the original system, you wont have any problem!
From Campinas, Sao Paulo, Brazil!
carpasouza said:
I got my phone Touch Screen all broken, unlucked the bootloader, rooted, try a little the cm11, and then, a sent it to repair.
Got a new phone even with the warranty avoided.
Just return your phone the original system, you wont have any problem!
From Campinas, Sao Paulo, Brazil!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes same will be the case for India to I guess..
Even I had rooted my previous phone and sent for warranty.. Of was a different manufacturer though.. Different policies..
Sent from THE motog
[quote name="Piyush Rawal" post=54210331]I have. I relocked bootloader and sent it to service center and they either didn't check or ignored bootloader status being 2, however, they fixed it under warranty.[/QUOTE]
Time to root I guess..
Tap-a-talked from the MOTOG
This is my story : I bought a soft bricked moto g xt1032 the bootloader shows device locked status 0. I've tried many methods to bring it to life without luck. I've got the unlock code from the earlier owner. In the next few days my friend who works in a t mobile service will try to recover the phone if he fails I'll send the phone to RMA. Will see what happens
Tomorrow is finally the day I guess
Tap-a-talked from the MOTOG
Wanted to start a thread to celebrate 0x1. So many people worry about tripping the flag. So I would like to hear why you decided you didnt care any more. Was it a certain ROM that made you jump? Speed enhancements? Or just a general "Screw you Samsung" feeling? Let me know and lets show people that 0x1 is not the end of the world!!
*edit* it IS the end of your warrenty as my friend below me just stated. Guess that should be stated. Lol
*edit 2* In light of another post....i did not know some countries actually do not look at knox. So i will add to these questions....does the knox flag even matter in your country?
Definitely not the end of the world. More like the end of your phone's official warranty.
My reason was just overall disgust for big corp telling me what I can and cannot do with my $800 phone. That was my orginal reason. Secondly was I love having a new device anytime i feel like it.
jerverg said:
Definitely not the end of the world. More like the end of your phone's official warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I know personally that it is kind of a 50/50 on trade ins if they will dig that deep. If you re-flash everything back to dead stock you do stand a good chance of pushing it through you carriers grasp. I know with t-mobile atleast
It's actually just the loss of Knox. The area that your phone was able to create to store a secure container housing work email or private apps and documents. Tripping Knox Warranty means your phone can't use Knox anymore.
Samsung did not create that flag for their warranty purposes on the phone (although it could be used for such things). It was created to alert the IT department at your job that you can't house important info on your phone anymore. Knox's warranty was void.
On the Note 4, if you trip Knox, you have to do some other stuff afterwards in order to stop severe lag (that is caused by tripping Knox) and to use private mode again.
Again, this is not something Samsung put on here to screw us, Knox actually has a purpose and place in protecting important information. I wish it was reset able though although I understand why it isn't.
Having a secure container like that on your phone has attracted military as well as many companies in the private sector to buy and approve use of Samsung phones in the workplace.
YouTube Knox 2.0 if you've never actually used Knox and are curious as to what your phone now can't do. If you didn't know what it was, then you probably won't care and will be happy with custom kernels and recoveries (the two things that trip Knox).
effortless said:
It's actually just the loss of Knox. The area that your phone was able to create to store a secure container housing work email or private apps and documents. Tripping Knox Warranty means your phone can't use Knox anymore.
Samsung did not create that flag for their warranty purposes on the phone (although it could be used for such things). It was created to alert the IT department at your job that you can't house important info on your phone anymore. Knox's warranty was void.
On the Note 4, if you trip Knox, you have to do some other stuff afterwards in order to stop severe lag (that is caused by tripping Knox) and to use private mode again.
Again, this is not something Samsung put on here to screw us, Knox actually has a purpose and place in protecting important information. I wish it was reset able though although I understand why it isn't.
Having a secure container like that on your phone has attracted military as well as many companies in the private sector to buy and approve use of Samsung phones in the workplace.
YouTube Knox 2.0 if you've never actually used Knox and are curious as to what your phone now can't do. If you didn't know what it was, then you probably won't care and will be happy with custom kernels and recoveries (the two things that trip Knox).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct friend. I guess I kinda was not specific. By Screw Samsung I mean they use it. Yes Knox is a big deal if you are in a business that demands that flag be secure. However Samsung encorperates it, carriers use it against us, so I say SCREW them both.....lol. But I like you description and thank you for contributing it here friend.
Well over here they are not allowed to deney us waranty on hardware when only the software has changged.
So yeah 0x1 over here...
I don't want to conform to the standard phone layout. As im not a sheep I want my phone to be unique. And now for most people it does look like it is.
HanZie82 said:
Well over here they are not allowed to deney us waranty on hardware when only the software has changged.
So yeah 0x1 over here...
I don't want to conform to the standard phone layout. As im not a sheep I want my phone to be unique. And now for most people it does look like it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So where is it your from? Thats awsome they cant deny you. And i agree, i have to be different. I dont like being told that my phone has to be what they say. Android is free kind of like the freedom of being able to going out side the palace but having to stay within the walls of the grounds. No thanks. Im climbing those walls.
I'm stuck with 0x0 no matter what it seems I do. Damn Canadian bootloaders..... LOL!
Why I didn't care, ever? This is probably my 28th phone (if I had kept the counting right) and only thrice in my life I had to visit service centre. And twice because of my own fcuk up.
Second reason, I can still get it serviced, but for a small amount of course.
So why people care about warranty that much is a questionable thing to me, no offence.
HanZie82 said:
Well over here they are not allowed to deney us waranty on hardware when only the software has changged.
So yeah 0x1 over here...
I don't want to conform to the standard phone layout. As im not a sheep I want my phone to be unique. And now for most people it does look like it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, 2 year warranty cannot be denied here either.
0x1 straight out of the box. Got this phone since it's release date. Never looked back.
Been living life with security flags being tripped for almost 3 years. First HTC then Samsung it's a way of life now.
I see the benefits of keeping knox at 0x0. You're guaranteed repair if you're in your warranty (repair in warranty with knox at 0x1 is basically a lottery) and, for the most part, you're not missing a lot these days. Most custom stock roms support stock kernels and can be installed with Mobile Odin Pro, meaning no loss of knox. And with Towelroot and MOP root injection, you can root without losing knox too. The only roms you can't use are non-stock AOSP/CM builds. But I've never really understood why anyone with a Note device would bother with these anyway as you're losing the primary advantage these things offer over standard phones, namely the S-Pen. Sure, you can keep some features with certain applications, but things likes Smart Select will never be available.
However, despite all the above, I deliberately tripped my knox because I missed full Nandroid backups and restores. I like testing roms. And changing them for me was a pain in the arse. I like trying a rom, but going back to how my phone was EXACTLY before I flashed it if I don't like it much. Nandroid is the only way of doing that in a decent time frame, and it requires a custom recovery like TWRP and CWM.
It just don't matter
I went in to my carrier and showed them my phone. I had bricked it softly. So, the manager played with til he had gotten the download screen. In the mean time they had made arrangements if I could not get working they were going to hook me up with a new phone. They asked me why I was doing it and I told them I didn't like the bloatware. Yes, it already had the 0x1. Yes, I live in the US. No it just didn't matter.
+1
JayHandsome said:
I went in to my carrier and showed them my phone. I had bricked it softly. So, the manager played with til he had gotten the download screen. In the mean time they had made arrangements if I could not get working they were going to hook me up with a new phone. They asked me why I was doing it and I told them I didn't like the bloatware. Yes, it already had the 0x1. Yes, I live in the US. No it just didn't matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
VICTORY!
Under EU statutory law, the service Centre have to prove that rooting and changing system software was the direct cause of any malfunction. If they can't, they are required, again under statutory law, to repair any android device fee free.
https://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html
I have 0x1 and a custom recovery and ROM.
Is there any way to return the phone to a state in which it receives standard OTA updates again?
Want to sell it and if the buyer isn't a rooter/nerd they might complain that the system has been modified.
-------------------------->SIG<------------------------
Even my house phone's better than your iPhone.
dodgebizkit said:
I have 0x1 and a custom recovery and ROM.
Is there any way to return the phone to a state in which it receives standard OTA updates again?
Want to sell it and if the buyer isn't a rooter/nerd they might complain that the system has been modified.
-------------------------->SIG<------------------------
Even my house phone's better than your iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just flash official Samsung firmware via odin. Flashing official Samsung firmware doesn't trip Knox. In regards to returning Knox to 0x0....no method has been found as far as I know.
speedyjay said:
Under EU statutory law, the service Centre have to prove that rooting and changing system software was the direct cause of any malfunction. If they can't, they are required, again under statutory law, to repair any android device fee free.
https://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats my whole argument. How can they just refuse you. Its a tactic to save them money. Even though your paying a $175 deductible. They should always have to prives the root had simething to do with it. If i bust my screen how the hell does me having a rooted phone disqualify me from receiving a new one. ESPECIALLY with a $175 payment for it. It B.S.
Hi All,
I'm reading that root can trip knox, having never owned a Galaxy since the S2 I'm not overly familiar with knox but I've read about what it does.
What is bothering me here is that there seems to be a suggestion that once knox is tripped, that's it. There's no way to untrip it even when flashing a stock factory image again via odin?
Firstly, is this correct?
I'm worried about resale value to the point that I might not care about mobile payments etc, but others might, so a tripped knox could affect value.
If the above is correct I might cancel my pre order, I need root but I don't want a phone that's got limited resale either.
TheBlueRaja said:
What is bothering me here is that there seems to be a suggestion that once knox is tripped, that's it. There's no way to untrip it even when flashing a stock factory image again via odin?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that is correct. Once the Knox flag is tripped you can not reverse it.
I don't think it has been confirmed yet that Knox flag breaks Samsung Pay. From what I have read it breaks software dependant on Knox security, ie the BYOD type apps. They use it as an indicator your device is insecure, so It seems reasonable to assume Pay would break too.
Damn it, What a stupid thing to do.
I can understand it being tripped if you are rooted, but to make it permanent if the situation is reverted is ridiculous.
Thanks for the info, I'll hold out a few more days to see what develops just in case, but I think I'm going to cancel my preorder as I need root but I also have to consider selling it on eventually.
Stupid, stupid decision. :crying:
TheBlueRaja said:
Thanks for the info, I'll hold out a few more days to see what develops just in case, but I think I'm going to cancel my preorder as I need root but I also have to consider selling it on eventually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, why do you need rooting your phone?
I thought the same way but now I'm going to use adaway with setting up proxy settings in my wifi and mobile apn connections.
The only thing I should need root for is Titanium Backup, but I think with Helium (by ClockworkMod) backups should be performed easily
eSportler said:
hey, why do you need rooting your phone?
I thought the same way but now I'm going to use adaway with setting up proxy settings in my wifi and mobile apn connections.
The only thing I should need root for is Titanium Backup, but I think with Helium (by ClockworkMod) backups should be performed easily
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its more than Adaway / Titanium backup, its removing Facebook, Instagram and Skype, which i don't use and or want, being able to run Xposed and root explorer so that i can use MY phone the way I want it without permanently affecting the resale value even if its returned to stock.
Look at it this way, I have a lovely PC for you - top of the line, fast as hell, lots of memory, premium price, but im going to install Windows 8 on there and a bunch of FREE apps , only im going prevent you from removing them, make sure you cant put Linux or Windows 7 or Windows 10 on there until i say so, prevent you from making any change to the Windows directory otherwise we'll stop you from buying things PERMANENTLY and void your warranty on the hardware so that you'll not be able to sell it on. EVEN IF you factory reset it with my software....
Its a shame as i REALLY wanted this phone, but it looks like it may not be for me unless something crops up with regard to KNOX and root.
TheBlueRaja said:
Its more than Adaway / Titanium backup, its removing Facebook, Instagram and Skype, which i don't use and or want, being able to run Xposed and root explorer so that i can use MY phone the way I want it without permanently affecting the resale value even if its returned to stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm absolutly with you.
For me it's not a problem because I'm using Facebook, Instagram and Skype. Didn't recognized that they're preinstalled... sry^^
Of course I prefer using the phone the way I want, but it's not as important to me as loosing the warranty. Sure this is quite stupid that Samsung wants to tell us how to use their phone.
If mobile payment will still works with triggered Knox, I'll definetivly root my S6 Edge and maybe try to slim down the stock Rom like I did with my Eragon Rom for the HTC One M7
eSportler said:
I'm absolutly with you.
For me it's not a problem because I'm using Facebook, Instagram and Skype. Didn't recognized that they're preinstalled... sry^^
Of course I prefer using the phone the way I want, but it's not as important to me as loosing the warranty. Sure this is quite stupid that Samsung wants to tell us how to use their phone.
If mobile payment will still works with triggered Knox, I'll definetivly root my S6 Edge and maybe try to slim down the stock Rom like I did with my Eragon Rom for the HTC One M7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah - its a shame - hopefully you can still use it, time will tell.
If root comes out without KNOX trigger i'll be all over this - might be too late for day 1 though - i suppose i'll just have to be patient and keep an eye on it.
In the mean time, i'll keep my preorder until the 5th or so then cancel unless something comes up - damn shame though - still i've got my HTC One m8 keeping me happy for now.
There hasn't been solution for KNOX for so long, that it's very hard to imagine that there will ever be one.
I hate KNOX so much, I don't think I will ever purchase another Samsung phone. This is not an absolute statement of course, however it is rather so.
JuniorGG said:
There hasn't been solution for KNOX for so long, that it's very hard to imagine that there will ever be one.
I hate KNOX so much, I don't think I will ever purchase another Samsung phone. This is not an absolute statement of course, however it is rather so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have root couldn't xposed just hook that call and return KNOX=True whenever queried? I've seen something similar in the past to make Google wallet work with root and without the secure element it required.
Chad
JuniorGG said:
There hasn't been solution for KNOX for so long, that it's very hard to imagine that there will ever be one.
I hate KNOX so much, I don't think I will ever purchase another Samsung phone. This is not an absolute statement of course, however it is rather so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is, Knox isn't just going to be a Samsung thing, after all its a Samsung and Google collaboration and i believe and it will end up spreading. To be honest, i've no objection and it think its a good idea - HOWEVER
I do think the real problem here is that IF the phone is returned to stock it should reset the KNOX flag back to being unset. Simple, everyone is happy.
If i choose to root then fair enough, trip knox as the phone isn't as secure as it should be - i don't expect to have root access or Admin privileges on my work PC normally and if i try to work round it there are logs to indicate that.
However, i DO expect to have it on my OWN computer and without the threat of the hardware being handicapped should i wish to sell it on, that's just wrong.
TheBlueRaja said:
The thing is, Knox isn't just going to be a Samsung thing, after all its a Samsung and Google collaboration and i believe and it will end up spreading. To be honest, i've no objection and it think its a good idea - HOWEVER
I do think the real problem here is that IF the phone is returned to stock it should reset the KNOX flag back to being unset. Simple, everyone is happy.
If i choose to root then fair enough, trip knox as the phone isn't as secure as it should be - i don't expect to have root access or Admin privileges on my work PC normally and if i try to work round it there are logs to indicate that.
However, i DO expect to have it on my OWN computer and without the threat of the hardware being handicapped should i wish to sell it on, that's just wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem, from a security perspective, is that there is currently no way to ensure that a phone returned to stock is secure.
Samsung decided from that point to just say once the phone is compromised... that's it. Certain features of Knox disable and, if it's your carrier's policy, the warranty may be void.
But let's be honest from that point as well. Rooting, in most contracts and terms of use, voids the warranty anyhow.
I think many have taken that for granted and don't realize that it can't be in a secure environment.
garwynn said:
The problem, from a security perspective, is that there is currently no way to ensure that a phone returned to stock is secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? I don't see how a phone flashed with Odin using a ROM with a verified cryptographic signature cant be deemed secure? Check this - unset KNOX...
This is like saying that once i've installed Ubuntu on a "Windows" laptop it can no longer be deemed secure and while we are at it, lets fry a hardware fuse?
We are SOFTWARE rooting the phone here, not hardware hacking.
I'm actually curious as to the legality of it as well as they are disabling a part of your phone permanently and on purpose because i choose to run a different OS than the one supplied, but i'm no lawyer and there's probably a loophole or a law allowing it somewhere.
TheBlueRaja said:
Why? I don't see how a phone flashed with Odin using a ROM with a verified cryptographic signature cant be deemed secure? Check this - unset KNOX...
This is like saying that once i've installed Ubuntu on a "Windows" laptop it can no longer be deemed secure and while we are at it, lets fry a hardware fuse?
We are SOFTWARE rooting the phone here, not hardware hacking.
I'm actually curious as to the legality of it as well as they are disabling a part of your phone permanently and on purpose because i choose to run a different OS than the one supplied, but i'm no lawyer and there's probably a loophole or a law allowing it somewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you may be doing is granting software access to root and you may only use root to modify things at a software level.
But you have to keep in mind that's not the only thing root access can do.
It's perfectly legal and I'll even wager they're part of the DoD specification that both they and Apple want to sell to the government.
You have to consider it from a worst case scenario. If a device has been modified in any way, how can they assure it's been reset 100% completely back to stock... both at a hardware, firmware and software level?
Without physically inspecting the phone, they can't - which is why I think this is the way it is.
The Knox team put out a blog entry a while ago about this topic, noting it's a good balance between ensuring security and allowing non-business users to root the device if they want to.
One other note: I don't know enough about the Exynos devices past N2 to say if they've fixed it... but the Note 2's Knox flag was not an e-fuse and could be reset.
garwynn said:
What you may be doing is granting software access to root and you may only use root to modify things at a software level.
But you have to keep in mind that's not the only thing root access can do.
It's perfectly legal and I'll even wager they're part of the DoD specification that both they and Apple want to sell to the government.
You have to consider it from a worst case scenario. If a device has been modified in any way, how can they assure it's been reset 100% completely back to stock... both at a hardware, firmware and software level?
Without physically inspecting the phone, they can't - which is why I think this is the way it is.
The Knox team put out a blog entry a while ago about this topic, noting it's a good balance between ensuring security and allowing non-business users to root the device if they want to.
One other note: I don't know enough about the Exynos devices past N2 to say if they've fixed it... but the Note 2's Knox flag was not an e-fuse and could be reset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm..
Keep in mind here i'm not suggesting apps requiring KNOX are made available whilst rooted like Samsung pay etc, only that the KNOX bit is reset if the phone is flashed back to factory defaults using Samsungs own Odin program and a cryptographically signed firmware. If at that point the phone is rooted again, it would expect it to re-trip KNOX just like it did the first time.
But, lets play a game, lets say i gain root, KNOX bit set and i cant use KNOX apps. I then use that root to make modifications to firmware on the device somehow, which is what i think your insinuating above, not necessarily the Android System partition, maybe the modem firmware (even though its closed source) or something else, for whatever purpose.
IF you have that level of knowledge of the phones hardware then i don't think it would be too much of a stretch to suggest masking the KNOX bit as set would be too hard either, maybe by intercepting the system call to check its status etc but even then when you say:-
"If a device has been modified in any way, how can they assure it's been reset 100% completely back to stock, both at a hardware, firmware and software level"
The firmware and software is taken care of by Odin, that does both, say we did modify the modem firmware above, Odin would write right over it with a VERIFIED image wouldn't it?
Whether you have root or not, you cant do anything about somebody hardware hacking, that's a whole different ball game, if you hacked the hardware you could just change to always respond as the KNOX bit not being set but that would be low level stuff way beyond what pretty much anyone here could do.
Would be interested in that blog post if you have a link - I just don't see this as anything more than a way to discourage more people from rooting.
TheBlueRaja said:
Hmm..
Keep in mind here i'm not suggesting apps requiring KNOX are made available whilst rooted like Samsung pay etc, only that the KNOX bit is reset if the phone is flashed back to factory defaults using Samsungs own Odin program and a cryptographically signed firmware. If at that point the phone is rooted again, it would expect it to re-trip KNOX just like it did the first time.
But, lets play a game, lets say i gain root, KNOX bit set and i cant use KNOX apps. I then use that root to make modifications to firmware on the device somehow, which is what i think your insinuating above, not necessarily the Android System partition, maybe the modem firmware (even though its closed source) or something else, for whatever purpose.
IF you have that level of knowledge of the phones hardware then i don't think it would be too much of a stretch to suggest masking the KNOX bit as set would be too hard either, maybe by intercepting the system call to check its status etc but even then when you say:-
"If a device has been modified in any way, how can they assure it's been reset 100% completely back to stock, both at a hardware, firmware and software level"
The firmware and software is taken care of by Odin, that does both, say we did modify the modem firmware above, Odin would write right over it with a VERIFIED image wouldn't it?
Whether you have root or not, you cant do anything about somebody hardware hacking, that's a whole different ball game, if you hacked the hardware you could just change to always respond as the KNOX bit not being set but that would be low level stuff way beyond what pretty much anyone here could do.
Would be interested in that blog post if you have a link - I just don't see this as anything more than a way to discourage more people from rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blog entries:
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/about-cf-auto-root
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/samsung’s-official-response-“towelroot”
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
There are many, many more on the site, just use the search keyword root.
But that's the gist of it - they understand that some may want root for simpler reasons.
Others may want it for more nefarious ways, like trying to access the keys within the TPM.
The end result sucks for consumers; but as a IT admin I can tell you I wouldn't trust a device with sensitive corporate data if it has been rooted... ever.
Thanks very much, I'll take a look when I get a chance later.
Anyone have an idea which carriers enforce the Knox tripping for repair?
Although this looks like a great device, if the Knox trip invalidates warranty, you may be very angry if lets say the usb port or power button malfunctions and repair is not covered.
Might as well buy a Note 4 exynos since apparently warranty is not valid in usa.
bjrmd said:
Anyone have an idea which carriers enforce the Knox tripping for repair?
Although this looks like a great device, if the Knox trip invalidates warranty, you may be very angry if lets say the usb port or power button malfunctions and repair is not covered.
Might as well buy a Note 4 exynos since apparently warranty is not valid in usa.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically the US has a law, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which should limit manufacturers voiding of warranties to that damage which can reasonably be blamed on the consumer. (for example, rooting your device shouldn't void the warranty for a defective power button) However, manufacturers usually claim the opposite here and I'm not aware of successful legal challenges.
Looks like sprint at least is ok with it
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2674884
TheBlueRaja said:
Its more than Adaway / Titanium backup, its removing Facebook, Instagram and Skype, which i don't use and or want, being able to run Xposed and root explorer so that i can use MY phone the way I want it without permanently affecting the resale value even if its returned to stock.
Look at it this way, I have a lovely PC for you - top of the line, fast as hell, lots of memory, premium price, but im going to install Windows 8 on there and a bunch of FREE apps , only im going prevent you from removing them, make sure you cant put Linux or Windows 7 or Windows 10 on there until i say so, prevent you from making any change to the Windows directory otherwise we'll stop you from buying things PERMANENTLY and void your warranty on the hardware so that you'll not be able to sell it on. EVEN IF you factory reset it with my software....
Its a shame as i REALLY wanted this phone, but it looks like it may not be for me unless something crops up with regard to KNOX and root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. My last Samsung was a note 2 which knox wasn't a factor and not a big push then. I didn't got to any Samsung's after that due to knox.
I just want root for the reason's you do and edit the phone's density.
Its a shame that we cannot just flash back to stock and "close things up" per say if we want to sell it or have a non root related warranty issue.
Knox is mainly geared toward the business side , so why not make Knox activated by a Admin when the phone is to be used for business where the security is needed. And leave it un-activated for the rest of us.
And i would think the ratio of people rooting vs people not rooting (nor even knowing what it is) is so slim that allowing it wouldn't cause a pandemic in warranty claims.
I know before i root anything i make sure all my points are covered and there are processes in place to un-brick a device. Which i haven't had to unbrick a device since my Moto X or OG Droid.
---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------
bjrmd said:
if the Knox trip invalidates warranty, you may be very angry if lets say the usb port or power button malfunctions and repair is not covered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree +1
Hi All
So, after lengthy discussion with Samsung UK via phone & live chat, they have confirmed that if the BL is unlocked,rooted or are any signs of this, they will not accept the phone when its returned .....meaning you will not be eligible for the early upgrade option in a years time unless you pay the remaining balance of your device yourself!
i have argued that this is not mentioned in there T&C'S https://shop.samsung.com/uk/assets/samsung/pdf/sup/samsung-upgrade-programme-terms.pdf .
Anyway....just thought i'dmake you all aware.
Cheers
The bootloader comes unlocked, so I'm unsure how they're able to refuse early upgrades on that basis. The knox trip isn't surprising, although it's amusing they repair under warranty in the UK even with a tripped knox, there appears to be two contradicting policies there. Rooting isn't an issue, surely no one would be attempting to perform an early upgrade without first flashing stock back on and wiping the phone anyway.
Beefheart said:
The bootloader comes unlocked, so I'm unsure how they're able to refuse early upgrades on that basis. The knox trip isn't surprising, although it's amusing they repair under warranty in the UK even with a tripped knox, there appears to be two contradicting policies there. Rooting isn't an issue, surely no one would be attempting to perform an early upgrade without first flashing stock back on and wiping the phone anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, my Samsung terminology may not be upto scratch, been on Sony devices lately... Anyway......
Rooting trips knox! Unless you know of a method without that happening? Even flashing stock before returning device to samsung won't reinstate knox.
To quote Samsung " if there is any evidence of root/knox being tripped, that will void warranty completley and breach the t&c's of the upgrade program, therefore we (Samsung uk) will not accept the device on return.
Cheers
AnGrY sCoTsMaN said:
OK, my Samsung terminology may not be upto scratch, been on Sony devices lately... Anyway......
Rooting trips knox! Unless you know of a method without that happening? Even flashing stock before returning device to samsung won't reinstate knox.
To quote Samsung " if there is any evidence of root/knox being tripped, that will void warranty completley and breach the t&c's of the upgrade program, therefore we (Samsung uk) will not accept the device on return.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here in the UK if the device is knox 0x1 but is not rooted, they will still repair. If it is rooted, 99% of the time they will refuse. I think this is what beefheart meant
AnGrY sCoTsMaN said:
OK, my Samsung terminology may not be upto scratch, been on Sony devices lately... Anyway......
Rooting trips knox! Unless you know of a method without that happening? Even flashing stock before returning device to samsung won't reinstate knox.
To quote Samsung " if there is any evidence of root/knox being tripped, that will void warranty completley and breach the t&c's of the upgrade program, therefore we (Samsung uk) will not accept the device on return.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You misunderstand my post. I'm aware rooting trips knox. But my point was that no one would return a phone rooted, they would simply reflash stock which would remove it, but unfortunately the knox trip would remain, which is presumably why they refer to knox specifically rather than just root.
Also, they talk of warranty being voided. That isn't the case because I've yet to hear of a UK Samsung device since knox was introduced that was refused a repair on the basis of knox being tripped. Including the S7, only yesterday a member on here had his phone replaced due to a faulty fingerprint scanner, despite his knox flag being tripped. This must purely refer to the early upgrade program.
@CuBz90 @Beefheart
OK, Fair play troops.... Just quoting what Samsung said, I suppose time will tell when it comes to upgrade.
Cheers for explanations and comment
AnGrY sCoTsMaN said:
@CuBz90 @Beefheart
OK, Fair play troops.... Just quoting what Samsung said, I suppose time will tell when it comes to upgrade.
Cheers for explanations and comment
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung chat also said the Exynos variants had a locked bootloader which is not true
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
CuBz90 said:
Samsung chat also said the Exynos variants had a locked bootloader which is not true
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh OK, so they don't know sh#t! Well suppose I better get this thing rooted and start building ( zip-ups) bwahaha
Sent from my Z3 Compact using XDA Labs
You get more cash selling online to someone in your town than an early upgrade anyways.
Sent from my Star-Tac
Yeah assumed this would be the case. Not fussed root doesn't bother me it stops my banking app working which I use all the time anyway.
Drama ... yesterday a line (+/- 10) green pixels that remain constant GREEN on the edge (dead pixels).
I went to the store, when they are going to sign up for repair and they think this is a guarantee (well i d*mn hope so...).
It is not a "fall" issue or water damage issue. This was suddenly occured.
Edit: Knox is triggered (root). Suppose they solve this problem, without *****ing about the root?
What do you guys think. This will be repaired under warranty right? This phone looks and IS brand new (1,5 month old)
Well Known Fact
ramon.nmgn said:
Drama ... yesterday a line (+/- 10) green pixels that remain constant GREEN on the edge (dead pixels).
I went to the store, when they are going to sign up for repair and they think this is a guarantee (well i d*mn hope so...).
It is not a "fall" issue or water damage issue. This was suddenly occured.
Edit: Knox is triggered (root). Suppose they solve this problem, without *****ing about the root?
What do you guys think. This will be repaired under warranty right? This phone looks and IS brand new (1,5 month old)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a well known fact that triggering Knox invalidates your warranty, FULL STOP.:crying:
kxdaorbit said:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a well known fact that triggering Knox invalidates your warranty, FULL STOP.:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They cant be that rude to their customers? It has literally nothing to do with the problem
Good Lawyer
ramon.nmgn said:
They cant be that rude to their customers? It has literally nothing to do with the problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it's about being rude. It's about their terms and conditions. Maybe a good lawyer could argue the case for you, but might be cheaper to buy a new phone.
ramon.nmgn said:
They cant be that rude to their customers? It has literally nothing to do with the problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about being rude or not. It's staying true to their terms and conditions, which you should read when you buy the phone.
You could try and sway the person that take your phone in, sometimes when they hear your story they tend to agree with you. My gf did it once with the whole story of being poor and out of a job, heartbroken, etc. the whole package.
Its a cheap way for them to refer to the terms and conditions. Even when the problem isnt even attached to ROOT...
However, they will send it back without repairing then right?
The problem is not your phone issue.
The problem is you root the phone.
Once root = no warranty.
Story end and nothing to do with they are rude if they not give you warranty.
Terms already mentioned means once you root = no warranty, nor-matter the faulty issue had to do with root or not.
kxdaorbit said:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a well known fact that triggering Knox invalidates your warranty, FULL STOP.:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you should read this: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/general/samsung-knox-trigger-bothers-t3028728
However, you will lose some features like Samsung Pay if you root the phone though. So that's unavoidable.
kxdaorbit said:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a well known fact that triggering Knox invalidates your warranty, FULL STOP.:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it's not that simple.
In some parts of Europe, and other countries, the consumer laws mean that the device is still covered under warranty if it's a hardware failure that is not caused by rooting the device, or something along those lines.
The fault described in the OP is a common one that has been around for years on many Galaxy devices. I would say the OP may be lucky and will get it repaired under warranty.
the_scotsman said:
Actually, it's not that simple.
In some parts of Europe, and other countries, the consumer laws mean that the device is still covered under warranty if it's a hardware failure that is not caused by rooting the device, or something along those lines.
The fault described in the OP is a common one that has been around for years on many Galaxy devices. I would say the OP may be lucky and will get it repaired under warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with "fit for purpose" claims is that Samsung's interpretation may be different than the customers. So no matter what the "law" if Samsung says no than the customer has to spend untold time and energy navigating the legal process to emerge victorious. That can take weeks or months. It's hard to make a multi-billion company do something against its will.
I'm an Australian user with Telstra. I dropped my S8+ in the first two weeks and cracked the screen. I have insurance on the phone where they send out a replacement phone and you just send in the damaged one within 14 days. Mine is rooted with custom rom of course, so all I did was flash back the stock firmware and all was good. My point is that you may be lucky and your chances may be higher if you go back to stock, they may not check and you may be lucky. I did the same with my S7 as well.. I must stop dropping my phones when I get them.
Andysmith71 said:
I'm an Australian user with Telstra. I dropped my S8+ in the first two weeks and cracked the screen. I have insurance on the phone where they send out a replacement phone and you just send in the damaged one within 14 days. Mine is rooted with custom rom of course, so all I did was flash back the stock firmware and all was good. My point is that you may be lucky and your chances may be higher if you go back to stock, they may not check and you may be lucky. I did the same with my S7 as well.. I must stop dropping my phones when I get them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Back to stock with odin, and then went to the store is what i did
So no traces of custom roms/kernels/bootlogo's etc etc, just stock. Only thing as said, Knox0x1, but it is not related to the dead pixels.
Hoping for the best, i will keep you guys up to date
Thanks for all the responses.
You are from Netherlands so EU laws affect you. That means that Samsung must fix hardware issues regardless of software (including knox) status.
Andysmith71 said:
I'm an Australian user with Telstra. I dropped my S8+ in the first two weeks and cracked the screen. I have insurance on the phone where they send out a replacement phone and you just send in the damaged one within 14 days. Mine is rooted with custom rom of course, so all I did was flash back the stock firmware and all was good. My point is that you may be lucky and your chances may be higher if you go back to stock, they may not check and you may be lucky. I did the same with my S7 as well.. I must stop dropping my phones when I get them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who is the insurance through?
the_scotsman said:
Who is the insurance through?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would guess through Telstra.
I have my phone insured with Allianz with my home and contents - if I ever break my phone or it fails due to a hardware failure, I just pay $100 excess and get the phone replaced with a brand new one or one of the same value.
Haven't had to use this yet, but I did ask about custom ROM status and they said they don't care, as long as I pay the insurance excess, I keep the old broken phone and get a new phone.
abra5umente said:
I would guess through Telstra.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea could be. Reason I ask is that if it was Telstra, he was bloody lucky to get it replaced with it rooted. Usually they are really strict with **** like that
the_scotsman said:
Yea could be. Reason I ask is that if it was Telstra, he was bloody lucky to get it replaced with it rooted. Usually they are really strict with **** like that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I had to fight to get my S3 replaced after I rooted it and then 10 months later I dropped it and the screen fell off. They said that even though it's physically damaged the root could have damaged internal components.
ramon.nmgn said:
They cant be that rude to their customers? It has literally nothing to do with the problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you be sure of that? It's possible for a rooted phone to bypass software that prevents the phone from running past its physical tolerances, so the rooted phone becomes capable of damaging its own hardware. Isn't that the reason they void the warranty if the phone has ever been rooted?
The display problem is presumably a hardware fault. I don't know if or how you could rule out that the fault had been software-induced while the phone was rooted.
Got it back finally after 11 weeks. New display and battery under warranty. Case closed.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G955F met Tapatalk
kxdaorbit said:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a well known fact that triggering Knox invalidates your warranty, FULL STOP.:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, and nobody knowes it better than me, coz when i took it to Samsung repair store, they told me that repairing my phone would cost £290 and I would have to pay as i've made the warranty invalid by rooting.
Gutted...but had to pay.
Matt