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I am a captivate owner and I have nothing to complain about.
The line above is a single sentence summary of this post. If you have no interest in the opinions of others or prefer to complain about a developers hard work then you should probably stop reading now.
After the countless hours I have spent in the Samsung Captivate section I am beginning to feel there is a growing void in the area of captivate compliments. It's as if people are angered by Samsung's apparent failure to achieve perfection. A post of positivity or satisfaction with our magical devices only seems to appear amidst the rampant firings of Iphone vs Captivate battles fanboy raids.
I do not intend to claim that Samsung has achieved perfection. Through the development and production of this device we can see that some apparent flaws have been made, HOWEVER!, these flaws are not attached to every captivate experience. After initially reading through this forum I would assume I have been blessed by the phone gods for providing me with the only fully functional captivate produced. After digging for some time though, it can be seen that there are a few who have had an awesome and intended experience with this phone. I never had a problem with GPS or Battery and I couldn't even complain about lag.
Rom after rom, my opinion has grown more positive. Through research and understanding I have learned how to make my device work more effectively for me. I have learned that most errors and malfunctions are simply user error or misinformation. A good and verified Master Clear can work wonders for a properly flashed phone's performance.
To the developers out there gilding the lily daily. You are awesome! Always should you receive an error log, but never should you hear a complaint.
I will end this with some things that have been making me smile since captivate release:
1. SAMOLED
2. Speed
3. Multitasking like a MoFo (Last.FM + My Tracks + HD video recording, simultaneously)
Updating with more smile factors:
4. Sleek sturdy hardware design
5. Phone sound quality and reception
6. Device/screen size
7. 3D acceleration
+1 to this. I too love my phone, it is a learnign curve and we have so many wonderful developers working hard to make out phones better. I agree that a little bit of learning goes a long way, most of the complaints I read and problems that are experienced are caused by over enthusiastic new owners that do not go through the proper steps for clean flashing and often have bugs do to this. Too many people improperly installing ROMS, not knowing the difference between Recovery and Download mode. Mostly due to not reading enough and following the clearly outlines steps. We all make mistakes and have all been noobs, no device is perfect and I know I had to spend two weeks of constant reading to know how to properly flash my phone, use adb, and various other usefull tools. I am constantly learning about Android and the Captivate, I am happy with my device and my current setup. These aren't I-phones thank god and you have to spend time to set it up the way it works for you, depending on individual needs and preference.
I also thing we have a wonderful comunity and need to work together to make it a pleasent atmosphere for all. I am truly enjoying my phone and appreciate the hard work the developers put into this.
The compaining gets tiresome, but with a little patience and learning these are really great Android phones. If you want something to work with no need to tweek and hack then Android id probably not the device for you, imo.
Happy to say the same! (without typing it lol)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
+1 Thank you for the post.
Good Post
I feel the same right now about mine. Everyone that has watched any of the hd movies I have loaded says the same...WOW...OMG...that looks awesome..
Does the endless complaining and *****ing do any good..Yes..it does..and while you are quite right in saying this is a great phone..please don't try to silence those who do complain about theirs..they have every right to do so,provided what they are saying is truthfull.
I know many have a hardon for Samsung because of the GPS issue..and also the 3-button recovery fiasco..and people should be made aware of them prior to buying so they can do as I did and get one that works..but..with out all of those B&M'ng threads I most likely would have not known about it..so IMHO they do serve a purpose.
On the good side..I love how fast this phone is,and how great it works..I'll be (hopefully ) even happy when 2.2 or Gingerbread is released..I do recommend them to my friends wanting to get one..and let them know to come here and sign up so they too can learn all about them and all of the great developers work on all of the phones ..This is a great place..with lots of good people working hard to make things even better for us..
Mac
It is a great phone. My friends marvel at my resolution and then bend their heads and text on theirs.
Since rooting I feel freer. Ahhh.
Mac11700 said:
Does the endless complaining and *****ing do any good..Yes..it does..and while you are quite right in saying this is a great phone..please don't try to silence those who do complain about theirs..they have every right to do so,provided what they are saying is truthfull.
Mac
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I do not intend to silence those with complaints about their device or experiences. I myself have listed my concerns with the device here on XDA. It is a crucial part of how our community gains understanding and shares information. I just think the overwhelming count of negative to positive posts can be frightening to a newcomer or perspective android convert. I don't want to silence the negative but encourage the positive.
The above being said, some refrain should be practiced when posting to a developers thread. I am no developer but I think some people have a tendency to be more critical than helpful when complaining about freely developed and distributed software.
Otherwise, point taken and understood. Thanks for the contribution.
I absolutely love this phone. The GPS is abysmal, the Facebook app is in severe need of an update and the lack of convenient stable visual voicemail, but beyond that the phone is awesome.
I love swype and the amount of apps and I seem to be constantly blown away by the screen. Also, the battery life is great compared to my 3g.
I was skeptical at first but I'm glad I dove in.
Well.. I do not have this phone.. But, I actually 100% understand what you mean..
The best example I can think of is a PC.
When you buy a pc, what is the first thing most (even remotely knowledgable) users do with it?
Install a few programs. I always use ccleaner, to get clear out extra files, you delete the "extra" programs you don't want (if you didn't build the pc yourself). You make quite a few changes as soon as you get it.
If your going to get a phone.. and really want to get the most out of it.. your going to have to mod it.. That means Jailbreaking it on iphone, Rooting it on android and voiding your warranty eveywhere.
If your squeamish about voiding your warranty and just want a phone for email/internet browsing.. The iphone 4 is a great choice and you are welcome to use it, Actually so is blackberry, Symbian, and a slew of other phone's.
The truth is complaints shouldn't be addressed to the phone.. but, more the respective manufacturers and carriers that prevent rooting and void your warranty for doing so.
If you know what your buying, I can't feel bad when you come back and complain... If you don't know what your buying, I can't feel bad for you at all.. Why? if your going to get the most out of *ANYTHING* in life your going to have to know what your getting into and be fully aware of your actions.. Those who aren't, I can't pity.
With that said.. I'm not saying people shouldn't strive to push manufacturers to fix problems, and being able to read warnings is nice before you buy something.. My biggest problem when I read complaints is, people don't feel the need to warn, express this dislike or try to address their problems..
They want to just run in cry, whine, and then blast the phone as if it killed their children, ate their dog and laughed in their face.
if I could persuade my parents to cover the data plan.. (not happening, they wouldn't even let me pay for it).. Then I'd spring for capt full cash right now..
Loving this thread . . . not really as much as I love persistent positivity and gratuitous kindness in general, but almost as much as I love my endearingly imperfect Captivate.
Nice work, '84. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're way too nice a guy to have bludgeoned to death and buried 83 to earn that nickname.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=809471
People ask me about my phone(captivate), and if they should get an iphone or captivate. Simple answer, if your a simple person, and don't like customizing or if your not really tech savvy, then get an iphone. But if you're the complete opposite, then go with an android (this is of course not involving jail breaking)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Mac11700 said:
I feel the same right now about mine. Everyone that has watched any of the hd movies I have loaded says the same...WOW...OMG...that looks awesome..
Does the endless complaining and *****ing do any good..Yes..it does..and while you are quite right in saying this is a great phone..please don't try to silence those who do complain about theirs..they have every right to do so,provided what they are saying is truthfull.
I know many have a hardon for Samsung because of the GPS issue..and also the 3-button recovery fiasco..and people should be made aware of them prior to buying so they can do as I did and get one that works..but..with out all of those B&M'ng threads I most likely would have not known about it..so IMHO they do serve a purpose.
On the good side..I love how fast this phone is,and how great it works..I'll be (hopefully ) even happy when 2.2 or Gingerbread is released..I do recommend them to my friends wanting to get one..and let them know to come here and sign up so they too can learn all about them and all of the great developers work on all of the phones ..This is a great place..with lots of good people working hard to make things even better for us..
Mac
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They have every right to complain, sure. But does that mean we have to be audience to these continually barrages of people who don't realize they have the choice to get rid of the phone if it doesn't suit them? I understand that we can have concerns, but if they're not handled constructively (ie varying, gps, lag, battery) they're cries should fall on deaf ears because I frankly don't need to hear it. Its been rehashed too many times to merit new threads and is far from necessary.
I come to this forum to get help with minor issues or improvement of my phone which is one I already love over my old 9700. That is why I love reading these kinds of threads where someone instead of injecting negativity into the community is seeking to shine a positive light. So here's to threads that offer help or new ways to improve the experience. Thanks OP glad you're enjoying your phone!
Dankenstein said:
Loving this thread . . . not really as much as I love persistent positivity and gratuitous kindness in general, but almost as much as I love my endearingly imperfect Captivate.
Nice work, '84. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're way too nice a guy to have bludgeoned to death and buried 83 to earn that nickname.
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Most people are pleasant and inviting in person then go to the internet to become complete troll nobs. I prefer to be an a repulsive ass in person and make people on the internet believe I am a nice and well adjusted individual. This process makes life more spontaneous and brings a since of humor to Online Dating.
In truth though, it is an engine reference for a "1984 Harley Davidson Shovelhead".
I love my phone. I love it more now that i have angry birds. Would like inter-op words with friends, but there are alternatives. I do wish the "issue" that people complain about gets fixed, but it doesn't bother me. I would barely use it anyway. To much like a leash to me. Did I mention I love my phone.
Shovelhead84 said:
Most people are pleasant and inviting in person then go to the internet to become complete troll nobs. I prefer to be an a repulsive ass in person and make people on the internet believe I am a nice and well adjusted individual. This process makes life more spontaneous and brings a since of humor to Online Dating.
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That was the best laugh I've had all day!
I love my captivate. I admit to being a bit obsessed with it. I had GPS issues, but that was the ONLY thing I didn't like about the phone. I was hesitant to exchange it because I didn't want to end up with a different set of problems, but I did exchange it.
Now I love my Captivate AND I have a working GPS I use every day
Bob
+1
Coming from a jailbroken iPhone 3g, there is no comparison. This is my 1st Android phone and couldn't be happier with it. I've only had it about a month and i've learned a lot, mainly by reading these forums...hence why this is only my 4th post
this phone is so underrated. its as good as or better than any on the market today, yet all you hear is droid droid droid
chrisz5z said:
+1
Coming from a jailbroken iPhone 3g, there is no comparison. This is my 1st Android phone and couldn't be happier with it. I've only had it about a month and i've learned a lot, mainly by reading these forums...hence why this is only my 4th post
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Well, welcome to XDA and to your new mobile experience. Back in my WinMo days I spents weeks reading the Kaiser forums before my first few posts. All the new acronyms and software references can be a bit daunting, even for the savviest of geeks. Luckily I made a smooth transfer by running android ports on my winmo device before fully jumping in.
shadow65781 said:
this phone is so underrated. its as good as or better than any on the market today, yet all you hear is droid droid droid
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The annoying stab by the general uninformed public is an assumption that "Droid" is the correct term to reference all android devices. I blame Verizon and their conniving marketing department. The failed recognition of your device by a passing stranger does give you an opportunity to politely correct them with a showing of the wondrous features your technologically superior device is capable of.
Reading the other forums for similar HTC devices, ie incredible s, sensation and evo 3d makes me realise how lucky we are. Those devices and therefore forums may be more popular than this one.
But, I find it quite surprising how many of those people that bother to respond to threads on the other device forums, respond with attitude and negativity. Without intentionally bashing other members, by comparison we seen a more considerate bunch, with less "know it alls". Lets keep it that way.
I think that we are very lucky in that sense and should endeavour to continue the good spirit and sense of community.
on the same note do remember that there is a search button which should always be used prior to posting new threads, also remember that when creating a new thread if the tags added aren't any good then it will never be found by others when searching.
As another member says....peace and lets try to carry on the good attitude
Swyped from HTC Desire S using XDA Premium
DITTO. Other phones might have more ROMs, but no support. The sensation forum has so many posts, that one's question would be buried behind 50 others rather than 1 reply
I think it probably has a lot to do with the desire s not being a stand out when it comes to features, but what it does offer is a high quality handset with very reasonable performance.
But I will agree with the quality of posts in other forums, although this isn't an overly active forum, what it lacks in activeness it gains in quality.
I wouldn't worry about a lack of support as we have some great users (proxuser?) porting ROMs almost non stop, LBC for his fantasic ROM and the Virtuous team for their more in depth multi handset ROM.
I really have to agree here. This part of the forum is awsome. Every member gives a hand when needed, developers are close to users, and there is no extra off topic that drives me crazy.
I congratulate me everyday for picking this phone instead of Nexus S !
That, and the nexus s is basically a phone made of happy meal toy plastic ;-) as I have been saying to the three black sheep that are at school with me who all got one in a matter of a week .
zeekiz said:
I wouldn't worry about a lack of support as we have some great users (proxuser?) porting ROMs almost non stop, LBC for his fantasic ROM and the Virtuous team for their more in depth multi handset ROM.
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we mustn't forget superkid who seemed to start our ROM porting gold rush! madmax without whose super recovery EXT4 we would have very sore fingers and damaged volume buttoins along with everyone else Marylandcookie and many more I can't remember right now!!
yeah, superkid, proxuser, LBC, Virtuous Team, and others like ben_pyett (who has provided non-stop support in the genreal section) have made this forum what it is
I have a Desire S. My loyalty was tested when my sister recently gave me the Incredible S for my birthday. It was so tempting and I HEAVILY contemplated migrating to it. I went on youtube watching reviews, read reviews, checked out the development community over at xda. After a long struggle of choosing between the two, I gave away the Inc S. I had a choice, and at the end of the day my loyalty stays strong to the Desire S. I couldn't get away from its robustness and slender design. Aren't you all proud?
My point is what kept me clinging was this community of developers. To put it simply, I didn't wanna leave you guys for the very same reasons stated by ben. The Inc S had more ROMs but most of them were abandoned. I stuck around because I am a fan of LBC and have great hopes and belief for it.
And Ben, you're one of the most active members on this development I've seen so the props go to you mate.
Seriously, this device is so underrated. The Inc S may be bigger and slightly better but I feel most comfortable with the DS. It's so adequate, perfect and extremely well designed. I just love the look and feel of it in my hand. Everything is just the right amount.
In terms of size, 3.7" is perfect for me. 4" is tolerable. But 4.3", Jesus Christ. Who else is not diggin' the new trend for smartphones getting bigger and bigger? Not me. Unless its gonna do my laundry for me, I don't a mini tablet as a phone.
"Who else is not diggin' the new trend for smartphones getting bigger and bigger? Not me. Unless its gonna do my laundry for me, I don't a mini tablet as a phone."
Totally agree mate and yeah Ben deserves major Kudos ,he helped me a lot at the start when I thought I had bricked my Desire S and getting the LBC rom
THANKS
Many Thanks gentlemen, but, stop it you're making me blush.
Honestly I didn't create this thread for praise, just simply to point out the differnce between this and the majority of previously listed forums attitudes, just try reading some of the posts from the other forums for yourselves and you'll see exactly what I mean.
I try to put in as much as I can, as I too am only a beginner, this being my first Android device and I figure sooner or later I'll need some real help. I also benefit from the time and effort that's put in by the various ROM cooks and figure that this is the only way that I can give back.
Not escaping the fact that I'm ultimately a bit of a geek who likes this stuff and is always keen to learn (Even at my ripe old age).
shrome99 said:
yeah, superkid, proxuser, LBC, Virtuous Team, and others like ben_pyett (who has provided non-stop support in the genreal section) have made this forum what it is
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+1,i totally agree
this forum & all the members are really great
& the community is also getting really big now,thanks to all the hard work of the devs
& also a BIG thanks to Ben for spending so much time here on the forum, helping all of us
edit:
ben_pyett said:
I try to put in as much as I can
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that is what we are thanking you for
This really is a live and warm forum ....
Thank you very much ben_pyett
Indeed this really is a live and warm forum
I got responses and advises here and there throughout the threads within.
Thank you all and keep it rolling
The phone (I call it a Disaster S now) is one of the worst I have ever experienced. I won't bore you with the details, just that I'm with all those who moan some of its even basic features are unpredictable and unreliable at best.
So I too like this forum. I just come here for therapy now ;-)
WibblyW said:
The phone (I call it a Disaster S now) is one of the worst I have ever experienced. I won't bore you with the details, just that I'm with all those who moan some of its even basic features are unpredictable and unreliable at best.
So I too like this forum. I just come here for therapy now ;-)
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LOL
<cut n paste from our other thread>
I believe that either you have a massive dud unit, or it's about time that you took the chance and moved to a custom ROM!
I've has this phone since April and have the exact opposite opinion! I've used LBC Mod since it was first available after I S-OFF'd and rooted my phone, I have tried the other ROMS all of which offer different things, depending on what you're looking for, but, for me coming from a WM Sense background I'm very happy with a "working" close to stock ROM that's stable reliable and ideal for daily use.
I'm also on T-mobile UK. Happy to point you in the right direction - if needed.
Well, I don't want to brick my phone (even reports of frying internals just by removal/reinsertion of battery!) or have warranty problems. Already had motherboard replaced once...
Let me count the ways... Some are these things may be Android platform related, some the Disaster S (hardware), some the stock firmware, or network incompatibility.
- Before the motherboard was replaced, phone would spontaneously reboot seeming triggered by being in poor reception areas when it was going in/out of coverage. It also managed to crash my car radio (and itself) when connected to the car radio via Bluetooth (no other phone has done that)
- Now it randomly fails to tell me about market updates, randomly stops notifying of incoming SMSs properly, some settings in some (standard/built in) apps seem to revert for no reason, it occasionally refuses accept an incoming call when there's indicated coverage. I recently had random emails delayed by over an hour (but I wasn't told by the market there was a GMail update)... yada yada
My all-time record up time before doing a restart to (temporarily) fix one thing or another is about 10 days. Normally it's 5 or less. The worst thing is it's unpredictable. I never know when something's going to break and I'll miss calls, emails or txts, or it will get stuck in a syncing loop draining battery (Exchange contacts sync in the HTC Email app gets turned on somehow, even though I keep deselecting it).
It's just a toy really. Something to show your mates down the pub. Not really fit for purpose. And I'm fed up of looking for workarounds or apps to replace in-built functionality that's supposed to work. Blackberry may not be so pretty, but in my experience they tend to do 'exactly what they say on the tin'. I will prob be back to RIM when I can...
wrong thread.
WibblyW said:
Well, I don't want to brick my phone (even reports of frying internals just by removal/reinsertion of battery!) or have warranty problems. Already had motherboard replaced once...
Let me count the ways... Some are these things may be Android platform related, some the Disaster S (hardware), some the stock firmware, or network incompatibility.
- Before the motherboard was replaced, phone would spontaneously reboot seeming triggered by being in poor reception areas when it was going in/out of coverage. It also managed to crash my car radio (and itself) when connected to the car radio via Bluetooth (no other phone has done that)
- Now it randomly fails to tell me about market updates, randomly stops notifying of incoming SMSs properly, some settings in some (standard/built in) apps seem to revert for no reason, it occasionally refuses accept an incoming call when there's indicated coverage. I recently had random emails delayed by over an hour (but I wasn't told by the market there was a GMail update)... yada yada
My all-time record up time before doing a restart to (temporarily) fix one thing or another is about 10 days. Normally it's 5 or less. The worst thing is it's unpredictable. I never know when something's going to break and I'll miss calls, emails or txts, it will get stuck in a syncing loop draining battery (Exchange contact sync in the HTC Email app gets turned on somehow, even though I keep deselecting it).
It's just a toy really. Something to show your mates down the pub. Not really fit for purpose. And I'm fed up of looking for workarounds or apps to replace in-built functionality that's supposed to work. Blackberry may not be so pretty, but in my experience they tend to do 'exactly what they say on the tin'. I will prob be back to RIM when I can...
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Ouch...I feel your pain, although that sounds like you should get a replacement unit under warranty, or move back to something that you'll be happier with.
ben_pyett said:
Ouch...I feel your pain, although that sounds like you should get a replacement unit under warranty, or move back to something that you'll be happier with.
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Indeed. Hence my comment about RIM. Ironic that my main reason for going Android was the tighter integration with all things in the Google cloud, but in real world terms I've found RIM do that more reliably. Go figure?!?
I don't actually think it's a hardware problem with the Disaster insofar as the nature of the probs makes me think it's firmware and the way I use it. For example I use Exchange, 802.1x wireless authentication, 4 Google apps accounts, etc. I'm sure others do too but maybe not in the same combination. Whatever. Sadly I frequently seem to find what become confirmed bugs in products that others don't.
zeekiz said:
wrong thread.
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Yeah, sorry. Maybe we need a 'therapy' forum anyway lol. Or a new topic "Unlucky to have the Disaster S, lucky to have this forum"
Not everybody is lucky.
I really think that you've got a bad/defective unit. Everybody around here enjoys this phone and squeezes every bit of performance and eyecandy out of it.
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
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If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
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Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
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The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
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Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
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I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
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What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.
Ok so basically I want to get this off my chest because this really bothers me and I strongly believe not all points will be accepted or seen as I do. Maybe some of you have heard of the "AOSiP experiment". If not read it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/redmi-note-5-pro/development/rom-aosp-pie-t3829052/page125 last post thread is locked.
So where do we start? I've been here around some time (even before I registered I lurked around). To the people saying xda is full of troll lately and back than it was way better. No it wasn't. Trolls and ret*rds have been around since xda started the only thing really changed is there are telegram groups for every thing (why tho?) where they troll and harass in real time. The only rule I found about xda is : the cheaper the phone the ****t*er the community. (this might be a point you don't agree on). I strive to improve the community because I am a part of it. I try to be helpful when needed point to already asked question and provide logs. And really I didn't mind fight the trolls.
But now I have to fight troll users AND troll "devs"? Troll "devs", lul never thought of using this phrase but boi here we are. I get it you are tired of all the pubg and give me SOT spammers. But why don't you just make a private telegram group for the devs? What hurts me of the most personally is that the "devs", to prove a point, said: "we gonna f*ck over our normal userbase who appreciate your works btw "(or atleast did). So because you got trolled, you trolled back. Only it missed the target. The trolls won and it's no victory to let a mod (not even akhil himself) post that ridiculously statement and close the thread so there won't be any discussion.
Also why didn't you make up a kernel? Why do you take the name of a dev who did nothing to you and drag him with you. Do you know what messages @srfarias is getting now because you thought: "lul lets take his kernel". Or does your own standards don't apply to yourself? "Trolling / harassment is bad as long as its against us? Trolling another dude is fine, as long as we don't know him?" Don't believe me? Read it here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78978664&postcount=112
Don't get me worn the whole maintainer team of AOSIP did great work! But on a human level they are currently as low as it can get. I personally don't give a f*ck if they stay away because this kind of devs is what's I believe makes up a toxic community. (another controversial point I guess)
Yes this is mainly a rant and maybe I'm way to offended by the devs but I really have to take this of my chest.
Thank to all the devs working on android and not playing games with their user base. And sorry @srfarias for all the sh*t you are getting right now.
Have a nice day.
Sir what's going on?
I find it a bit weird as well that they care so much about what a few people say. They completely forget about all the people who don't say anything because they have no issues at all...
Turning this theme around is trolling. Enough, please. Let's stop criticizing as users or developer and start all over again to bring out the best in us. The developers who only sporten their work and the users only our support and thanks. Enough please
Exactly that! I completely agree to all points... I bought the device 6 months back just because I saw huge development and I was completely happy with all the alternatives out there. J really liked akhils' work with Derp and never had an issue... Seeing the way now the device taking completely getting abandoned from most of the major projects going on, which also helped smaller projects to get a more polished work for our devices, just because some majority of users can't even follow the instructions of flashing or even understand what they are talking about most of the times is really disappointing.
There is always a better alternative to keep the true userbase "happy" with your work.
Everybody could easily not care about the troll's, just annouce in XDA - if they still wanted - keep a closed forum and just release personal work. Get their feedback through GitHub or any other issue tracking platform with strict bug report "protocol" and ignore all of those "members" who are unable to provide useful feedback. But, all we got now is that we got trolled by those who don't even care to try all the steps in order to provide useful feedback...
Anyways, I still appreciate the work done in Whyred and for me the best I have to do is to move to another device which potentially has a better community and devs that knows how to not care about the trolls. as most of the devs should know that 9/10 times the fault isn't in the code but in the user... Especially when we are talking about ROM/kernel performance in games for example. In telegram forum I even saw a user asking if it was possible to update his chipset form sd660 to sd845 through kernel update. Should we even care to explain to any user with this attitude? This type is not even making a research about what he is tweaking on his device and the potential damages he could get by those tweaks...
i don't own this device, but someone linked me this post for some reason.
All i can say is, i have to agree on most points in the OP.
have a nice day all
I am really Sad for this situation, I don't even own the device... but oof.... Good luck guys.
Using other devs name-for-a-project just to f'ck around/troll the users is as low as it gets.
Oh, here is my very unpopular opinion: I have had nothing but trouble with AOSiP(both oreo and pie builds). I thought it was only on my side, cuz everybody shared how good and awesome and perfect AOSiP was. Ugh, the brutal battery drains I had with AOSiP and Derp...
Holy sh't, when I read what happened yesterday, I thought I was in the wrong hecking forum and not XDA. I am glad that AOSiP is gone at this point.
Trolls should be punished, all of them, no matter who they are and what work they have done! If the main problem is trolling, make the whole forum closed behind a sub and stop whining about people being trolls. Where the f'ck have you lived until now?! On another planet? Tough luck, humans have been trolling since forever. People have been illiterate since forever. They don't care to learn, they just consume! But... When you're a dev and you're supposed to be smarter then the bunch of trolls, yet you fall on the trolls' level, you lost that one, hard!
Also, I remember srfarias from before. He has always done his best and I was surprised he started working on this device! He was never malicious! Keep it up, srfarias!
He's not in a ****, everyone here (only with brain) already knows what just happened, so it shouldn't be a problem at all, Srfarias isn't a well known (yet) on RN5 community since it was his first (and perfect) work, that's why he got attacked and to be fair that's normal and expected especially from this community, if he was a known here and developing ROMs for RN5 like the others i can imagine a totally different reaction from the same who attacked him, but since he's not known here (again, yet) then no problem, **** his rights and **** his time that he spent on this great kernel, no wonder, this is the nature of people.
Go to any ROM's topic now and see the begging, please dev don't leave us, you're the best dev, no such issue here don't report any issue you can hurt the dev, please continue your awesome work dev, will you continue this project dev?....etc.
God bless you Srfarias with this community and have fun (i doubt )
Just a personal consideration: it's sad to see how a very restricted group of people can destroy a modding community.
I can agree with you but also with the devs.
Spammers, trolls, pubg extreme players, is that really important? I have no skills about building ROMs or kernels and i'll never try to do this but, why we can't just ignore this kind of people? Why all users need to lose a good ROM (i've installed AOSiP once, and i've loved it) for those spammers?
I really hope to see AOSiP team again here in our subforum, i haven't followed this question and this is just a personal thing, but it's nice to see people on this argument.
(Sorry for my english, i have no skills on languages too )
Totally man..these devs act so mature and stuff still do retarded stuff and blame the trolls (what was the whole point of telegram group?)
.
I'm gonna give slow claps to the devs who did this experiment.
Good job you won.
.
And when it comes to this case it's not the trolls who are spreading the cancer its the...you know who.
.
SRF (the dev of pureCaf) is such a humble guy and these guys HAD to F him up.
.
Anyways I'm glad that you (the ones that did this experiment) have stopped developing ?.
We have many humble and intelligent devs who dont do stupid stuff and blame it on trolls and don't ruin other devs life.
.
Peace.
I would agree with OP on some points, including that the experiment in question was debatable because it "contained" someone's work and it had directly impacted him.
But on another note, the experiment of similar sort was desperately needed to prove a point, which many people seem to have missed.
It was not aimed at PureCAF dev and his kernel per se, it was aimed at Whyred users of different profiles who have couple of things in common - disrespect, 0 knowledge, impatience and just bad manners in summary. I have been pissed of numerous times here because I try to add something useful to disscussion and development in a way, to help other users and devs, and then comes the horde of 10 users after my post with the exact same question which I (or anyone else) have answered, not to mention that there were numerous idiotic feature requests and useless bug reports.
One thing you have to remember, the ones who have issues will always be more vocal than those who don't. We all give feedback in threads of course, but you don't suddenly jump in PM to say hey great work, everything works, keep it up, where as those badly mannered people will spam PM's if something doesn't get fixed or even their request doesn't get considered, and those people will turn to disrespect, which has been shown here frequently.
The experiment was just a tip of the iceberg, because this kind of harassment goes way way back, and with presence of Telegram as an instant messaging app, you as a known dev are fuc*ed up.
The placebo effect, which is a powerful thing sometimes, has once again proved how many clueless people are present in this forums, and how much they have an impact on community nowadays.
I have used AOSiP + Derp for a long time, and my device has performed great with that combo since June last year, but others had issues, and that's expected as although our devices are basically the same, not all electronic devices are created equal.
And have to add, I have previously used 3 flagship devices from Samsung (older ones) and Sony and no, the community there wasn't even close to this.
Nah..the point of the experiment is great, a lil bit controvery move but I agree with them.
But I don't like some part of their last statement that seems attacking purecaf dev, as far as I know srf never talk bad about them, It is some users and adi (bootlegger dev) who mock derp because rom devs change to purecaf, but once again afaik srf never do that.
In the end everyone react very poorly in this situation, looking for someone to blame in this situation is not a solution.
We (user and dev) must respect each other, mocking other dev is never good, even it is only a joke.
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
alexmason90 said:
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
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Nah, it was much more than that, it pre-dates even this situation with PureCAF.
Guys, you'll need to see the wider picture, PureCAF kernel was not the problem, it was just the last straw. The problem lies within the community, in the nagging users themselves and the pressure they have been putting on devs.
I was expecting something similiar, I'm even surprised that it took this long, however the handling of the situation could have been better, I admit.
It's just some little kids fight, almost funny to watch actually. Ambitious and jealous people are like this, they have a tense nature.
Also, I don't believe XDA management is compotent enough. Even the website is using an outdated design and broken some parts.
Anyway, this was surely interesting to watch.
I've not read every single post, but none the less:
I've been with XDA since March of 2011. I lurked at least a year or so before that. I joined with my first smartphone ever, the HTC Desire. With every smartphone i've owned since, i was active in their respective forums. And from my personal (non scientific) feelings, the XDA community has been getting progressively "worse". I fondly remember the days where we spend days and weeks in threads talking about how to get android 4 to boot on hopefully outdated Hardware. Minor achievements where shared, several people where collectively working on something while having a nice and technical discussion. I loved coming here to hang out with the geeks and talk about the things i enjoy most.
But lately, i've just not bothered. It might be because it's my first Xiaomi, and the community is different from Samsung or HTC. I have not logged in in over 4 weeks and after coming back today i have not found a single thread that's actually usefull. Sure, Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it. I won't **** on anyone actually putting his work out here. I highly appreciate that. But i feel the Gold Rush of Android development is done. And now here we are, complaining about what devs should and shouldn't do, and making the 100th thread about what rom has the best batterylife. I feel like most people that come here don't even care to do the bare minimum of research. That's frustrating. This used to be a place for people who enjoyed mobile devices and hacking on them as a hobby. Not a customer support forum for people not getting 20 hours of Screen on Time.
Yes, releasing a ROM with advertised changes you didn't make, and in the process using a devs name for work he didn't do is not a nice move. I can see where they are coming from and why they did what they did. It used to be a major offense against the devs to even ask for Features or ETAs. It was just not tolerated basically. We are basically doing open source development here. Want something done? Well bad luck. Do it yourself or wait for someone to do it. You are not paying anyone to do the work. Be greatfull for what our devs do and stop asking for more. If you want more, or faster, do it yourself.
I personally don't get anything of value out of XDA anymore. I've always been here to be part of the process. To be at the forefront of what's possible in mobile tech. I wanted experimental stuff and see things break for the sake of it. I enjoyed talking to devs about the process and getting insight into what's happening behind the scenes. I never came to XDA for the "best battery backup rom" out there. This is a community of interested people. Not a customer Support forum.
@domsch1988
it's not your personal feelings, it's the true fact
I think all the old users here feel the same, I've learnt alooooooooot from this community and I'm really grateful to everyone I've got something from him but now everything is really weird!
And i really liked this "Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it" , it's like we are in Olympics, tons of ROMS and sharing the same bugs and sometimes full of bugs like the earlier releases of every android pie ROM here once Pie was out, why everyone was in a hurry to give a full of bugs ROM? glory or first Pie ROM maybe? instead of squashing the bugs and giving 3 or 4 perfect ROMS every day a new ROM with the same ****, and it's not only that, half of the ROMS now have 3 versions, the official, the modded or unofficial one and the one on telegram (the new disaster on XDA) WTF? and 90% of the developers here are not responding to any inquiries, yeah, i can clearly notice that.
Why they aren't working together and give their best instead of this mess if they really want to serve this community? I've seen many users here complain that they are confused and don't know which is better or with less bugs or will get regular updates.....etc.
About (the majority) on this community i think there's no need to talk since i really get bored and nothing will ever change here, sad but true.
And finally a new dev came here and gave us a prefect kernel and now he is involved without making any mistake, his crime is that he refused to see his work is being used from the others and without even asking or mentioning him, LOL!
Everything is getting worse here, and unfortunately from all not only the users.
Btw, Thanks for this post :good:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk
Gandhi70 said:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk
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Since we are in a general talk topic I just want to say that this is the best and the KISS explanation ever given in forum. This really small paragraph you wrote can easily explain on it's own what happened to all technical communities!!!
The absolute non structure weirdness and quite frankly appallingly terrible decision to remove actual forum sections has had an impact on everybody, not just the end user but every single person who uses XDA.
A weirdo decided to change something that needn't be changed, but went and did it anyway, they altered something that meant that you HAD to add a category otherwise your thread will literally sit in limbo without a category.
Who on earth tboght this was a good idea? It isn't, it's pitiful. The familiar development, Q+A, general, themes are GONE!
In its place is one section of threads, no order whatsoever, perhaps if they've chosen to pick a category but they don't have to, it's not mandatory??????
Whoever sanctioned this needs sectioning.
Web version rant over......
Onto the app!!!
Where can I start, I actually enjoy looking back on previous devices, why?
Because they actually are formatted and filtered correctly, you know like a FORUM!!! Like a normal forum like the billions on the internet...
For some reason that's gone, you've got a weird plethora of non negotiable threads with zero distinction besides what the title is; which again is subjective if it even has been categorised.
Beyond the absolute mentalness.
You cannot choose a category on the app.
I actually paid for the premium version of the XDA app back in the day...why?? If ever there was an advert for ripping off an awful dev, it's this, I pay for all my apps I don't do warez but this is an incentive to do the prior.
You! Soon after the elimination of the XDA premium app which wasn't like 20p it was a few quid, made an ad laden version which was worse, now it's barely usable.
What is going on?????
I'd say I'm sorry for feeling this way but it genuinely feels like a director who's face fits just got a job and he has to change something for the sake of changing it.
It's idiotic!
One senior mod actually told me that they did it to save bandwidth !!!!!
Reputations are built in years of hard work, work you've already done, yet there destroyed in seconds, with an idiotic decision, something you've just done.
No gif could describe the facepalm I wanted to convey, I can only say one word.
No..
Final thought:
XDA is an amazing place, a place I've loved for years, I've seen and met some phenomenal people, so much talent and promise, so much collaboration it makes me proud to not only be an Android enthusiast but human in general.
All you've done is give us hurdles to jump.
Get the old system back. Don't change something because it could be do it for the right reasons, if it's too be taboo then at least have a vote on it. Personally I think you'll find it's a one sided event.
The new system is abysmal and there putting it mildly.
As most parents have said to their crap kids.
"I'm not upset, I'm just disappointed"