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I am a USA visitor, am in Washington now. I was in the AT&T store today, was going to buy Captivate off contract and buy AT&T sim with data plan only and use until the end of this summer and then waiting for unlock to use in Russia, but AT&T guys said that they don't sell prepaid sim card with data plans for non-contract PDA phones which is Captivate for $500. I find it absolutely crazy, why then they sell smartphones off contract in this way? For whom? If this phone is full prices when buying it without contract, it is locked with AT&T and it's not even possible to use the internet with an AT&T sim. Well, does T-mobile provide data plans when buying prepaid sim card? Should I wait for unlock and then buy this phone and then connect to T-mobile until this summer? And, well, it's possible for unlock not to arrive so soon
And I heard that there is a Captivate coming to Rogers in the 20th of August, is there any info if it'll come off contract and unlocked(able)? And in this case it is possible for Rogers to send this phone to the New York's hotel, for example?
for data plan only say you have a ipad they will give you a prepaid data plan and you can use it by adjusting some settings
i just got the $20 100MB data plan to use in my captivate. the gophone sim and data work fine.
Don't get the captivate. ATT won't have unlock codes available for a long time.
jromeo350 said:
i just got the $20 100MB data plan to use in my captivate. the gophone sim and data work fine.
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Click to collapse
Yep that's what I was going to suggest. That's your best option. Buy a go phone sim card. Tell them you want the 100mb worth of data and that's it. Pop it into the phone and you will be good to go.
100 mb is probably not enough for me, is it possible to get more with this go plan?
and about captivate, if Rogers starts selling it soon, this phone won't be exclusive and I think there is a great chance to get an unlock code in september for example
If a buy a data plan for iPad, will they give me a micro sim or normal sim? Will it work with captivate for sure?
DarkVasyaK said:
100 mb is probably not enough for me, is it possible to get more with this go plan?
and about captivate, if Rogers starts selling it soon, this phone won't be exclusive and I think there is a great chance to get an unlock code in september for example
If a buy a data plan for iPad, will they give me a micro sim or normal sim? Will it work with captivate for sure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes... spend $20 more and get 200MB Also, you can get a sim adaptor if you recieve a micro sim. If you go the ore-paid route, make sure you get the sim from a retail store and not from a gophone kit. I did this and had to get them to swap the sim (for free) to one that works in my new phone. Hope this helps!
DarkVasyaK said:
I am a USA visitor, am in Washington now. I was in the AT&T store today, was going to buy Captivate off contract and buy AT&T sim with data plan only and use until the end of this summer and then waiting for unlock to use in Russia, but AT&T guys said that they don't sell prepaid sim card with data plans for non-contract PDA phones which is Captivate for $500. I find it absolutely crazy, why then they sell smartphones off contract in this way? For whom? If this phone is full prices when buying it without contract, it is locked with AT&T and it's not even possible to use the internet with an AT&T sim. Well, does T-mobile provide data plans when buying prepaid sim card? Should I wait for unlock and then buy this phone and then connect to T-mobile until this summer? And, well, it's possible for unlock not to arrive so soon
And I heard that there is a Captivate coming to Rogers in the 20th of August, is there any info if it'll come off contract and unlocked(able)? And in this case it is possible for Rogers to send this phone to the New York's hotel, for example?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could get the T-Mobile Vibrant at full price (supports Euro 3G on the 2100mhz band for when you go back to Europe, needs unlocking though) and sign up for the Even More Plus Smartphone Unlimited Web & E-mail, no contract, $39.99. Should work.
http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/...ven-More-Plus-Smartphone-Unlimited-Web-E-mail
I hate the look of Samsung Vibrant...
Captivate is far better
Is it possible for Rogers to send phone outside Canada? In USA or Russia?
From everything I've seen, they won't ship outside of Canada. Though if you or a friend can go yo Canada, they will sell you one.
Another option is to find someone in Canada willing to buy and ship the phone.
Sent from my Samsung Captivate.
ok, I'll wait 2 weeks in this case and then decide what and when to buy
100 mb data plan suks
hope rogers' captivate will be easy unlockable
Hey guys,
I'm on ATT, and I was thinking about picking up an SGS2 soon. I was wondering, since my folks never use their upgrades (in a family account of 4), is it possible to upgrade their line, but never use the new sim card and instead use the phone for myself? Has anyone tried this that could possibly share their experience, and give a quick how-to?
Thanks.
If you go into the att store and just say you want to use their upgrade on your line they will do it no problem. As long as you are the primary account holder.
If you are doing it third party, or online you can upgrade their line with the new phone (activate required data plan if applicable) then put your sim card in the phone. You can deactivate the data plan on the other line whenever you want. You will need to call att to have them change your data from 3G to Faux G, but you will keep the same plan (cost and limit, even unlimited), it you won't get data on the GS II with the "3G" data provision.
I just went through this recently.
P.S. Do yourself a favor and get the original Galaxy S II (i777) instead of the skyrocket ... you'll thank me later.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
I believe number is attached to sim. Just pop your sim in and good to go. Just ask ATT, its not illegal to switch phones
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
quarlow said:
If you go into the att store and just say you want to use their upgrade on your line they will do it no problem. As long as you are the primary account holder.
If you are doing it third party, or online you can upgrade their line with the new phone (activate required data plan if applicable) then put your sim card in the phone. You can deactivate the data plan on the other line whenever you want. You will need to call att to have them change your data from 3G to Faux G, but you will keep the same plan (cost and limit, even unlimited), it you won't get data on the GS II with the "3G" data provision.
I just went through this recently.
P.S. Do yourself a favor and get the original Galaxy S II (i777) instead of the skyrocket ... you'll thank me later.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks so much! And I was definitely going for the i777; dev support is flourishing there.
"You will need to call att to have them change your data from 3G to Faux G, but you will keep the same plan (cost and limit, even unlimited), it you won't get data on the GS II with the "3G" data provision."
I'm not sure what you mean here. So when I put MY sim into the SGS 2, I should call att about my line, and have them change whatever you said?
I have an unlimited data plan - I was planning on just taking the newly bought SGS2 to the ATT store and have them transfer my unlimited plan to it. Would this work? What other options do I have to keep my unlimited plan?
Yeah they can do it in store, or call. Just tell them you got a sgs II and the data doesn't work, because it won't. They have to "provision" your line for 4G/HSPA+ data instead of 3G. You can still keep unlimited for $30. It shows up on your bill differently, you will see two pro-rated data plans with different names, but it will still total $30.
It will be easiest in store, as you can verify it works before you leave, but the phone reps can do it too.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Just tell them you want to cross-upgrade. They will set it all up for you. If you do it from a retailer (Costco, Bestbuy...), they will set up the upgraded line and then you will call AT&T after to cancel the data plan associated with the upgrade and switch the IMEI to your line - since they need to change the data plan to the 4g variant.
When you put your current sim in the SGSII, network will work but data won't. That's because the data plan on the Captivate isn't compatible with the SGSII. I found that out last week
Careful though as some places like Amazon require you to sign a contract with them as well stating that if you cancel any part of the plan or use the phone on another line, they hit you with early term fees (I think it's just Amazon actually).
Oh yeah, and the SGSII is an awesome phone!
qwertyaas said:
Just tell them you want to cross-upgrade. They will set it all up for you. If you do it from a retailer (Costco, Bestbuy...), they will set up the upgraded line and then you will call AT&T after to cancel the data plan associated with the upgrade and switch the IMEI to your line - since they need to change the data plan to the 4g variant.
When you put your current sim in the SGSII, network will work but data won't. That's because the data plan on the Captivate isn't compatible with the SGSII. I found that out last week
Careful though as some places like Amazon require you to sign a contract with them as well stating that if you cancel any part of the plan or use the phone on another line, they hit you with early term fees (I think it's just Amazon actually).
Oh yeah, and the SGSII is an awesome phone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I figure Amazon and Wirefly are off limits for this. They require the line to stay with the data plan for 3-6 months, depending on the retailer.
Thanks for your help!
Grea thread ! Some more explanation..please
Ok. I am not fully understanding this great switcheroo.
Wont you still have the other non-SGSII still active and paying for it in the family plan.
Can someone please explain how this goes step-by-step? I mean what if I am not yet eligible for an upgrade, can I just add a SGSII line this way, and turn off the other phone>>>??
Step-by-step.......puhlesaseeeeee!
EDIT: Hmmmmmmmmmm......after re-reading it looks it means you have to be eligible for an upgrade to do this? So since I do not have an upgrade option I am just getting excited for nothing ????
You can add a line for a new phone, such as SGS II, and then use that phone for your line. But, you cannot cancel your existing line until the contract ends, which would be ~3 months after you are eligible for an upgrade. You can cancel the dataplan you are forced to add if you add another line, but you are stuck paying $9.99 + taxes and fees, a month for that line for 24 months. So it adds up costing $250+ over the next 2 years.
You can call and try to talk your way into a early upgrade. If you are nice, and mention considering ending your service they may let you upgrade early for new price plus $30. Several others have said that worked for them. But, it may depend on how close you are to an upgrade. If you got a new phone 6 months ago you may be stuck for a while.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
quarlow said:
You can add a line for a new phone, such as SGS II, and then use that phone for your line. But, you cannot cancel your existing line until the contract ends, which would be ~3 months after you are eligible for an upgrade. You can cancel the dataplan you are forced to add if you add another line, but you are stuck paying $9.99 + taxes and fees, a month for that line for 24 months. So it adds up costing $250+ over the next 2 years.
You can call and try to talk your way into a early upgrade. If you are nice, and mention considering ending your service they may let you upgrade early for new price plus $30. Several others have said that worked for them. But, it may depend on how close you are to an upgrade. If you got a new phone 6 months ago you may be stuck for a while.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks quarlow..........I hit the button !
chappatti said:
Thanks quarlow..........I hit the button !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YW
I hope you find a way to get your new phone.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
I did this with an iPhone 4S (my upgrade's not up until this spring, the contract outlasted my patience with the Samsuck Craptivate). If you go to a CORPORATE AT&T store, it's no big deal to do. The lady there handled the whole thing for me and I was up and running in no time...
Alright, so I went ahead and got the SGS 2 from Radioshack because they had a 50 dollar deal for Black Friday. I looked at the receipt though, and it says that "If the Device and its wireless service agreement are not continuously in service for 90 days after the original purchase date and the Device is not returned to the Retailer, I agree that the Retailer may charge my credit card an unreturned merchandise fee equal to the Device's Non Activated Price minus the activated price I paid".
I bought it with no sim card for my mom's line. I have the primary line, and I was wondering if it's still okay for my to just insert my sim in the phone to use (would I be charged the above stated fee?). The phone hasn't had any sim card put it in yet at all. Is there any way to get around this? Does anyone have any experience with upgrading like this through Radioshack?
EDIT: Just talked to an ATT rep and he told me that I would not incur any fees/charges for switching equipment, and proceeded to do so for me. I'm still sort of anxious though, don't want to be charged a ridiculous amount for doing this. I saved the chat as a PDF (talked to an online rep) just in case. Anyone want to chime in with an opinion of what I should do?
ri3tn said:
Alright, so I went ahead and got the SGS 2 from Radioshack because they had a 50 dollar deal for Black Friday. I looked at the receipt though, and it says that "If the Device and its wireless service agreement are not continuously in service for 90 days after the original purchase date and the Device is not returned to the Retailer, I agree that the Retailer may charge my credit card an unreturned merchandise fee equal to the Device's Non Activated Price minus the activated price I paid".
I bought it with no sim card for my mom's line. I have the primary line, and I was wondering if it's still okay for my to just insert my sim in the phone to use (would I be charged the above stated fee?). The phone hasn't had any sim card put it in yet at all. Is there any way to get around this? Does anyone have any experience with upgrading like this through Radioshack?
EDIT: Just talked to an ATT rep and he told me that I would not incur any fees/charges for switching equipment, and proceeded to do so for me. I'm still sort of anxious though, don't want to be charged a ridiculous amount for doing this. I saved the chat as a PDF (talked to an online rep) just in case. Anyone want to chime in with an opinion of what I should do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are just trying to prevent you from using your upgrade to get a new phone, then immediately terminating the contract and selling the phone. As long as you are actually using it on your plan, you're all good.
apbthe3 said:
They are just trying to prevent you from using your upgrade to get a new phone, then immediately terminating the contract and selling the phone. As long as you are actually using it on your plan, you're all good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Careful, some stores (Amazon) will charge you an early term fee if you move the phone to another line within 6 months.
I am very happy with my Net10 service, but I have the opportunity to go onto my company's corporate phone plan. Figuring it would be one less bill to pay every month, I went for it, but they are telling me I can't port my MVNO number (which was ported from my old Verizon contract last year) to a new contract.
I don't want to do it if I can't keep my phone number. There has to be a way?
Hello XDA,
I am currently on the last month of my contract with Sprint, it ends 7/31/2014. I am currently on a family plan with 2 other lines, 3 total and at the end of July want to take my number from Sprint and move to Tmobile. I have never switched providers before and I am not sure what to expect.
Do I need to wait until 7/31 to actually switch without paying ETFs?
Can I activate my Sprint Nexus 5 on TMobile? It was purchased at Best Buy and was Sprint labeled, but it should be fine for Tmobile with their Sim correct?
Would I need to do anything with Sprint or if I waited until 7/31 can I just visit a Tmobile store and they take care of porting my number and essentially telling Sprint to kick rocks?
Circaflex said:
Hello XDA,
I am currently on the last month of my contract with Sprint, it ends 7/31/2014. I am currently on a family plan with 2 other lines, 3 total and at the end of July want to take my number from Sprint and move to Tmobile. I have never switched providers before and I am not sure what to expect.
Do I need to wait until 7/31 to actually switch without paying ETFs?
Can I activate my Sprint Nexus 5 on TMobile? It was purchased at Best Buy and was Sprint labeled, but it should be fine for Tmobile with their Sim correct?
Would I need to do anything with Sprint or if I waited until 7/31 can I just visit a Tmobile store and they take care of porting my number and essentially telling Sprint to kick rocks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was some discussion early on that the sprint nexus 5s were different but I believe that was wrong I can look more into it. If you are going to T-Mobile postpaid then the easiest option would be to go in store. When you port your number they say it can take up to 24 hours to be finalized but in my case was about six hours. Keep your sprint account active until the port is complete or you will lose your number. Once the port is complete sprint may cancel your service or give you a new number so call to make sure it's cancelled.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Circaflex said:
Hello XDA,
I am currently on the last month of my contract with Sprint, it ends 7/31/2014. I am currently on a family plan with 2 other lines, 3 total and at the end of July want to take my number from Sprint and move to Tmobile. I have never switched providers before and I am not sure what to expect.
Do I need to wait until 7/31 to actually switch without paying ETFs?
Can I activate my Sprint Nexus 5 on TMobile? It was purchased at Best Buy and was Sprint labeled, but it should be fine for Tmobile with their Sim correct?
Would I need to do anything with Sprint or if I waited until 7/31 can I just visit a Tmobile store and they take care of porting my number and essentially telling Sprint to kick rocks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) You do not have to wait to switch.
2) Probably should look at trading in your Sprint N5 to avoid any CDMA (Sprint) and GSM (T-Mo) issues down the road.
3) You don't need to do anything w/ Sprint. Simply head into T-Mo and let them port and handle from there.
2. Shouldn't be any issue if T-Mobile activates it. Sprint has to activate the CDMA radio differently.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
tmobile doesn't have to activate it. just put in tmibiles sim card, boot up. if no signal right away, put in tmobiles apn manually. thats it. most likely youll have a signal right away though.
pwrmedia said:
1) You do not have to wait to switch.
2) Probably should look at trading in your Sprint N5 to avoid any CDMA (Sprint) and GSM (T-Mo) issues down the road.
3) You don't need to do anything w/ Sprint. Simply head into T-Mo and let them port and handle from there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So say I do this next week, i would assume I would pay an ETF with sprint if i dont wait right?
I was under the impression the n5 was the same (has all bands) and it shouldnt have a conflict, especially if i factory reset
:good:
Basically my main concern is if i need to wait until the 31st to do this will i lose my number? or do i do this with tmobile a few days before the 31st?
Thank you all for the replies
Circaflex said:
So say I do this next week, i would assume I would pay an ETF with sprint if i dont wait right?
I was under the impression the n5 was the same (has all bands) and it shouldnt have a conflict, especially if i factory reset
:good:
Thank you all for the replies
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do this next week, and your contract isn't up until the end of next month, then they'll cover your ETF (either through reimbursement/credit your t-mo account, not sure how they're handling that these days).
As the other posters mentioned, you SHOULDN'T have any issues if T-Mo activates the phone, but you may want to Google success/fail stories when it comes to taking CDMA-carrier branded phones and activating them on GSM networks.
pwrmedia said:
If you do this next week, and your contract isn't up until the end of next month, then they'll cover your ETF (either through reimbursement/credit your t-mo account, not sure how they're handling that these days).
As the other posters mentioned, you SHOULDN'T have any issues if T-Mo activates the phone, but you may want to Google success/fail stories when it comes to taking CDMA-carrier branded phones and activating them on GSM networks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea i read about the etf reimbursement but i believe you have to trade in your current device, which i dont really want to do. My phone isnt branded any different though from what i understand compared to google play store bought n5's
pwrmedia said:
If you do this next week, and your contract isn't up until the end of next month, then they'll cover your ETF (either through reimbursement/credit your t-mo account, not sure how they're handling that these days).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is incorrect. BYOP customers are inelligible for T-Mobile's ETF promotion, it is only for people who buy new phones from T-Mobile and have an old phone to trade in. If he ports his number from Sprint to T-Mobile as much as one second before his contract expires, he'll most definitely be charged an ETF.
BirchBarlow said:
This is incorrect. BYOP customers are inelligible for T-Mobile's ETF promotion, it is only for people who buy new phones from T-Mobile and have an old phone to trade in. If he ports his number from Sprint to T-Mobile as much as one second before his contract expires, he'll most definitely be charged an ETF.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what exactly happens on 8/1 do i no longer have sprint or does it go month to month. How do i keep my number? sorry for the noob questions, been with sprint and only sprint. August 1st do I just walk into tmobile and do it from there? I have no problem waiting, its only a few weeks away otherwise i could pull the quick switch a roo and activate my galaxy s 3 and do the BYOP but its too much hassle and i can just wait but i just dont want to lose my number
Circaflex said:
Yea i read about the etf reimbursement but i believe you have to trade in your current device, which i dont really want to do. My phone isnt branded any different though from what i understand compared to google play store bought n5's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, you do have to trade in your phone.
I'd assume that since you're within 30 days of your contract ending w/ Sprint, you're looking @ roughly under $100 in ETFs across your 3 lines (if you're just canceling the one line on the family plan, obviously that's even cheaper). If it makes more sense keeping the phone you have now and paying those fees as opposed to taking advantage of T-Mo's reimbursement and giving up the phone, that may be the better deal for you.
I left VZW in January of this year w/ 8 months left to go, and paid my ETFs up front, picking up a N5 from them rather than letting them trade my HTC One since they valued it so low. Sold the One on Craigslist for 2x what T-Mo wanted and essentially recouped my ETFs and the first two months of my T-Mo bills.
I'd say hang onto what you've got since you don't have high ETFs.
pwrmedia said:
You're right, you do have to trade in your phone.
I'd assume that since you're within 30 days of your contract ending w/ Sprint, you're looking @ roughly under $100 in ETFs across your 3 lines (if you're just canceling the one line on the family plan, obviously that's even cheaper). If it makes more sense keeping the phone you have now and paying those fees as opposed to taking advantage of T-Mo's reimbursement and giving up the phone, that may be the better deal for you.
I left VZW in January of this year w/ 8 months left to go, and paid my ETFs up front, picking up a N5 from them rather than letting them trade my HTC One since they valued it so low. Sold the One on Craigslist for 2x what T-Mo wanted and essentially recouped my ETFs and the first two months of my T-Mo bills.
I'd say hang onto what you've got since you don't have high ETFs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea it would be a single line off the family plan
So i think i found my answer, all the contract does is limit me from taking my number to another provider without paying an ETF fee. Once it ends it will go month to month unless i sign another two year agreement, 8/1 is my best opportunity to go into TMobile and have them port my number and setup service with them without paying an ETF fee.
I found a chart with the ETF fees, for 1 month of service remaining on "advanced" devices I would have to pay $100 bucks. I think ill wait until 8/1 and kick sprint to the curb.
Thanks to you all for putting up with my nonsense today :good:
Good call. Wait it out and keep your phone. You will never look back once your on T-Mobile!
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
So I finally made the switch, did not want to pay the $100 bucks for leaving a month early so my contract with sprint was completed on 7/31 and that same day I went over to tmobile and the process took about 15 minutes, mostly me waiting for sprint 3g to pull up my account details as I forgot to bring my account number with me. about 5 hours later the number was ported over and so far I love it. I get LTE at home where I got no service with sprint, not even 3g. Most of my usual areas where it was slow 3g are now on LTE, LTE spots are actual LTE. Sprint would give me on great signal maybe 10 Mbps, on tmobile i am consistently hitting 40+ and even hitting 50 in most of my areas. Good riddance Sprint, should've ditched you long ago.
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Circaflex said:
So I finally made the switch, did not want to pay the $100 bucks for leaving a month early so my contract with sprint was completed on 7/31 and that same day I went over to tmobile and the process took about 15 minutes, mostly me waiting for sprint 3g to pull up my account details as I forgot to bring my account number with me. about 5 hours later the number was ported over and so far I love it. I get LTE at home where I got no service with sprint, not even 3g. Most of my usual areas where it was slow 3g are now on LTE, LTE spots are actual LTE. Sprint would give me on great signal maybe 10 Mbps, on tmobile i am consistently hitting 40+ and even hitting 50 in most of my areas. Good riddance Sprint, should've ditched you long ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
love to read happy endings
Were you able to use your sprint nexus 5 on the tmobile network then?
orb360 said:
Were you able to use your sprint nexus 5 on the tmobile network then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea, anybody can. all you need to do is pop in an lte enabked tmobile sim. you dont need to call them and set it up for your device to work, like sprint.
Sim card and new Nexus 5 in the mail in route to mi casa. Missed my N5 so much. Ha. Bye bye Sprint.
Happy to see T-Mobile is working for you. I been using it for years; so far it has never disappointed me.
i will be leaving att once my contract is up
my contract is up april 15 so i will be switching to another carrier (tmobile)
after i leave on that day how does the bill work?
do i have to pay the full amount for the rest of that month?
also will be transfering my number over
so i would probably do that about a day before because it could take some time before it fully ports over
lilmikey201 said:
i will be leaving att once my contract is up
my contract is up april 15 so i will be switching to another carrier (tmobile)
after i leave on that day how does the bill work?
do i have to pay the full amount for the rest of that month?
also will be transfering my number over
so i would probably do that about a day before because it could take some time before it fully ports over
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have 30 days of time to port your number after contract runs out. As long as potrting is in progress you will get a temporary number, If your contract runs out at 15th you should only have to pay for the exact amount of days and not for the whole month. Best you can do is to contact your carrier for further details. Customer care will know best
I would ask T-Mobile to arrange the switch, and pay your switch over cost. Worst they can say is no.
NoSpamDan said:
I would ask T-Mobile to arrange the switch, and pay your switch over cost. Worst they can say is no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so after porting my number does my att contract get cancelled by itself or do i need to call att myself?
lilmikey201 said:
so after porting my number does my att contract get cancelled by itself or do i need to call att myself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Myself I would go on their website and open the chat with an agent and ask them about it so you have it in writing.
I believe there are links on their website that will allow you to close your account as well.
EDIT: Here's the 'Cancel my service' link: http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=53601&cv=820