Database Info

Possible PSP-esque war between Google/Tmobile and hackers?

What does everyone think will happen with future revisions of Android in regards to the fork between the stock G1s with OTA updates and the hacked G1s with manual updates with the test keys?
Hopefully this doesn't turn into Sony's militant locking down of the PSP via every firmware upgrade. Even though I never owned a PSP, I thought it was absolutely insane that Sony would try so hard to keep people from using their purchased equipment in any way they wanted to.
I totally understand that Google had to release RC30 to shut down a GIGANTIC security exploit that could have (but not likely) been used compromise phones. I'm sure it's in their interest to keep a homogeneous G1 userbase but would they actively try to relock rooted phones?
I'm hoping they just leave the rooted G1s alone. Mostly because we bought the phones and they are OURS. We are obligated to stay with Tmobile until the contract is up because the price is subsidized but we are not obligated (in my opinion) to retain the software they were shipped with. Obviously if my phone has a software problem I won't be calling Tmobile. On the other hand, if there is a hardware defect I'm certainly reflashing RC30 and sending it back under warranty.
I would like to hear everyone's opinion. I think it was great that Tmobile UK was good enough to open a dialog about possibly allowing root access but I don't think they really understand what "root access" is or care as long as they sell phones under contract. I don't think Google really cares either since they have open sourced all of the OS that we are modifying which is in the spirit of Open Source Software anyway. I think as long as they get their marketshare, they will be happy.

I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers...next i dont thnk that google would do this but t-moble might.But in my opinion i think they will as soon as they start hacking the pay apps. that will start later this year.

HOGWILD said:
I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hogwild hit the nail right on the head. I don't think T-Mo/HTC will engage in a drawn out battle to "steal" back root simply because there is no real financial motivation to do so. I'm of the mind that it's best not to begin speculating unless one of the aforementioned company takes a step in that direction. There's no point whipping up another possible flame-war over something that might never happen.

Ya I agree they are our phones 1 thing you left out not everybody is under contract some ppl paid full price on a prepaid 90 service plan then they get their unlock code. Some people didn't qualify for the upgrade price of 179$ and some people are under contract eiither of all three it is owned by the user the day they signed or paid. Tmobile won't take back a used g1 for failure to honor the 2 year agreement they will bill the customer.
So the whole open source push... and market. There and hundreds of. Thousands of programmers who make programs for the love of advancing "things" look how popular sourceforge is. So you get people who will create a program and demand a nominal fee say 14.95 the dev only gets 70% of the price and the wireless carrier get 30% for nothing. I . Defently there being an underground "market place" that bypasses that standard one to allow people to download free apps. The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
My 2 cents

diabolical28 said:
The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a lot of idiots in the world with money to waste. Rest assured, the paid apps will have retarded comments as well.

qft
rabble:rabble

Wow I hate people that don't know what they talking bout. I wanna clear up a few thing. Being a psp dev I can tell you it wasn't bout the hacking and homebrew. the psp updates were to stop piracy. Btw most exploit on psp were by sony. If you own a psp atlease you would know a little about the scene. Secondly, the root bug is dangerous to us. Google own dev are helping us htc people are leaking tools and t-mobile always let us screw them over. So no it not gonna be no war going on it all for our safety untill the software is right. As you can see we're like test bunnys and when a bug you should be greatful that they release update. So while I love having root access it not that serious right now it just would be right to compare this to the iphone jailbreak scene. Once paid app are here I wouldn't be shock if update start coming to block test key and resigning to respect developer work. Read before posting and short answer no unless as needed

There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.

danguyf said:
There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct. And you can bet that there will be handsets running builds of Android not maintained by Google which will not run Android Market. Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves. I'm concerned that that fracturing of the ecosystem will impede overall market acceptance. And i'm not even talking about the inevitable outcome of Android "strains" that slowly become sdk incompatible with each other.
Here's a posting I made on android-platform and Dianne Hackborn's response:
Right, I'm thinking along the device manufacturer side of things. As
an imperfect analogy, is the Android team okay with manufacturers
producing their own Android builds which may be slightly incompatible
with each other (a la Symbian's various flavors), or will all
manufacturers be encouraged/required to adhere to some technical
requirements checklists in order to brand their phone as Android-
powered? (more like say Windows Mobile).
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Click to collapse
We won't, this is something we will be actively discouraging (or from a
positive perspective, doing whatever we can to encourage android devices
to be compatible).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course with an open source project "actively discouraging" can only go so far...

jashsu said:
Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves.
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Click to collapse
The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."

From what I've heard from Google folks, they aren't that interested in the root thing, that is more a carrier issue. However, the way people originally got root was a serious issue. Not directly because you could get root, but because it was an outright silly bug than could potentially raise havoc on your device if you happened to type the wrong thing on your keyboard.

JesusFreke said:
The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I imagine the billing settlement fees could be rather sizeable. I don't run a credit card processing company, but i've seen $.20 - $.30 per transaction thrown around. That's in line with Paypal's fees.
We'll see if other manufacturer/carrier matchups continue to use Android Market. I wouldn't be surprised to see them create their own markets though, simply because if it's possible and there's the slightest financial incentive to do so, eventually someone will do it.

I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
Sony did not want homebrew for multiple reasons. The obvious one is ISO playback. No matter what they did, warez was possible. Even back before we had perfected the actual emulation, we could simply patch calls to disc0:/ to ms0:/ and load the EBOOT. If we hadn't figured out how (the first one to truly do it was UMD Emulator, which would patch many of the PSP calls to make it MUCH smoother/more compatible), we could simply expand on this.
The second reason is that we were stepping on their toes, so to speak. They wanted to have many more downloadable minigames that could be booted off of the memstick, something we did years before them. I doubt they liked that we were doing what they planned, and doing it much better/faster.
Thirdly, they were responsible for all bricked devices. Although their unbricking process has always been easy, it costs them time/shipping. It's still a pain and costly for them to do it massively.
This is why they combated it on the PSP so much. On the standard Playstations, they've never had to worry about it this much. They didn't have memory cards that you could easily throw ISOs on, they didn't have any easily loaded software that would allow you to boot them, etc. You had to buy hardware devices (hdloader, the swap program (ffs can't remember the name), or modchips). Pirating the PSP was SO much easier.
Now, onto the G1... a Google employee has already (off the record, speaking for himself, not Google) that they should have just given us root access, especially if HTC was going to be so careless with their NBH images.
If every one was given root access, cracking paid applications would be much easier. Well, that is the belief. In reality, cracking them will be a sinch. With easily done byte code modification, and resigning the APK, I doubt there's an application that CAN'T be cracked. As long as you could install apps from browser/SD card, you can crack them. Even if they locked it down to market only, we could spoof DNS servers and run "unofficial" markets with cracked applications. This wouldn't require root access at all.
(excuse any typos, it's 10F outside atm and I'm trying to smoke.)

Gary13579 said:
I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The last time I used my PSP was a year ago, as a flash drive so I could reformat my computer. I haven't actually *used* it in years, so anything you saw on QJ wasn't about the real Gary .
But yes that's me, and I was an admin at Dash Hacks.

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol what? fIRC lets you connect to any server and any channel.

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://code.google.com/p/androidirc/

Is this the end of XDA-Developers?

Everywhere I go, I see the following message:
"... links removed due to legal complaint from Microsoft. ..."
They finally got P.Oed enough by the success of this forum and by the fact that you guys are doing everything they can't or won't.
Well, it's a sad day for us all :-(
In the hopes that this forum keeps on doing what it's doing, I say this.
Well done guys! keep on the good work !
And thank you for hearing my rants

I'm not sure why at all it would be considered the end of XDA-developers. Microsoft will still release wm6.5 no doubt so It is just matter of time until WM6.5 is released and then cooking on wm6.5 will start again. Just right now the movie is on pause

And WM 6.1 can continue to be tweaked to our heart's desire.

oh and I also happen to have b16b's WM6.5 if you want that....

I am sure it's a very credibly crafted hoax.
Of course Admins don't want any trouble or harrasement from anyone (certainly such mighty legal giants like Msoft) so they did what all of you would do - take a precautionary measures
Let'em sort it out.
Its just a temporary disturbance in the force far from end of xda LOL

And now I have utopykzebulon's v6 WM6.5 josh's WM6.5 also

"Is this the end of xda-developers?"
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...no.
Not even close.
Same thing happened when wm6.1 was leaked.
/thread

dhob187 said:
Everywhere I go, I see the following message:
"... links removed due to legal complaint from Microsoft. ..."
They finally got P.Oed enough by the success of this forum and by the fact that you guys are doing everything they can't or won't.
Well, it's a sad day for us all :-(
In the hopes that this forum keeps on doing what it's doing, I say this.
Well done guys! keep on the good work !
And thank you for hearing my rants
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a hoax...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=492791
This thread has been up for a couple of days now...

op, it's not even close to the end! xda will continue on rocking!!

Same thing happened when pre-released WM5.0 builds leaked on XDA-Dev a long time ago. The website lost all it's FTP files to Microsoft back then because of that and yet here it is, still up and running smoothly.
I have strong doubts that xda-dev will go down. Besides, it's not in the best of HTC or Microsoft's interests that they do so. A strong community like the one on xda-dev brings lots of advantages to them. For starters, there's the publicity that they're getting out of this, then there's the strong client base for their devices and OS for which one of the major reasons of purchase is Windows Mobile modability and the advantages this website brings in high-level customization of their own device. Which is what most users like to do: to get the most out of their hard-earned money. And last, but by no means least, there's also the potential feedback on their applications and OS that they can get from xda-dev which might help for future improvements. As for the leaks, i'm sure they really have nothing serious against them, as such leaks keep interest in devices alive. Of course, there are limits to this, as the boys need to keep their pre-release material safe and also incite interest in newer devices, but still... Backwards support is always good for PR.

I can remember when WM5 was in Beta, I added the fix to the Typhoon (orange c500 rom) shortly before it was taken off the FTP... my name is still on the "where has WM5 gone" text file on the root of the ftp those were the days eh?
think of it as a temporary set back... technically roms are no longer hosted on XDA anyways.

Hah, no way is it the end, the links should be back up soon after the admins fix this hoax stuff up. Seriously, the guy who sent the fraudulent emails is such an idiot!

rosebud said:
I can remember when WM5 was in Beta, I added the fix to the Typhoon (orange c500 rom) shortly before it was taken off the FTP... my name is still on the "where has WM5 gone" text file on the root of the ftp those were the days eh?
think of it as a temporary set back... technically roms are no longer hosted on XDA anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they're not. Again, since that little FTP incident. Those were the days...

dhob187 said:
Everywhere I go, I see the following message:
"... links removed due to legal complaint from Microsoft. ..."
They finally got P.Oed enough by the success of this forum and by the fact that you guys are doing everything they can't or won't.
Well, it's a sad day for us all :-(
In the hopes that this forum keeps on doing what it's doing, I say this.
Well done guys! keep on the good work !
And thank you for hearing my rants
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The end is on year 2012 my friend, LOL
And as somebody earlier mentioned this is a very strong WM community, here you can find som stats about xda-developers: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=491608
Cheers
P.S. Be Positive

Might not be such a bad thing anyway
Even if there was an end in sight for xda-dev, another forum would spring up elsewhere to take its place. And that might not be such a bad thing...
xda-dev is one of the most hostile, unfriendly forums I frequent. Incredibly useful, with infinitely valuable resources, but senior members are often arrogant and intentionally unhelpful, and mods are heavy-handed, closing down threads unnecessarily at the drop of a hat.

Microsoft and HTC in good terms with xda?
There has recently been much anxiety in the Windows Mobile ROM cooking world over at XDA-Developers after the web site started receiving take down notices from some-one purporting to be from Microsoft. The practice of making updated firmware for older devices have always been borderline illegal, and the similar practice on the desktop (e.g placing a pirated copy of Windows Vista on a XP machine) would never have been tolerated.
It later turned out the take down notices were rather dubious in origin, and did not really conform to the format used by Microsoft. Tweakers.net, a Dutch web site, decided to take the bull by the horns and ask Microsoft and HTC directly what they thought of the situation.
Maarten Sonneveld, from Microsoft Netherlands was very clear. "What is happening there, adjusting ROMs is illegal. They go to get the intellectual property of others." He however, Pilate-like, absolved Microsoft from any responsibility to address the crime. "This intellectual property is not with us. The ROMs are owned by manufacturers or providers, if the branded versions. We supply only the OS."
That leaves the ball in HTC’s court. HTC however had no plans to squash one of the biggest selling points of their phones. "What happens there should not", says HTC Benelux director Mark Moons. "But XDA-Developers is the largest and most active community of Windows Mobile developers. We can not live with ‘em and we can not live without’ em."
The outcome of these statements is therefore than an uneasy truce exists, leaving XDA-Developers to continue their exploits in peace, but always with a gun pointed at their head if either Microsoft or HTC changes their minds. If this were to happen however it is likely that both would see a dramatic loss of market share, as many regulars who only buy HTC Smartphones, abandon the platform in droves.
We hope therefore, as is the case now, that cooler minds continue to prevail.
VIA: wmpoweruser.com

WM7 - no cut/copy and paste

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/16/windows-phone-7-series-wont-have-copy-and-paste/
Glad I jumped ship when I did. iPhone from Microsoft anyone?

It is worse than iPhone. iPhone now has copy and paste.

talk about taking one step forward and 50 steps back. i remember when balmer was all like, "OMG MY PHONES ARE >>> THAN APPLE'S!!! WE HAVE COPY AND PASTE!! LOLOL!!11one"

I’ve tried to keep an open mind about the pros/cons of wp7s, but this little snippet of information has got me shaking my head in disbelief….
I can’t take a phone seriously that doesn’t have copy and paste…. I just can’t.

just some toughts
There was said that there would be wp7 and wp 6.5 where everyone was assuming that wp6.5 would be for cheaper models. but what if wp 6.5 is going to be the business version and wp7 is going to be the mainstream version. although iPhone, android and wm are most used for connecting to Internet I know that alot of people are using low spec mobiles. and many people using smartphones, just want something that looks cool and is easy to use.. wp7 does just that. MS is sure trying to get the gaget users.
What is the first thing cooks are doing when they get a new build? they remove things we (most of us) think are not needed.
I also remembered before wm 6.5 was released most were talking about how bad the UI looked and it was too simple. but before long most cooks were only using the WM today screen.
So I won't say anything bad about WP7 before I've tried it

Well, I was certain I would wait a bit and see how WP7 looks.
Then I saw "Metro" and thought the name was good, it's level is so low, it's close to the metro. And now this???
Android I am coming.

It seens that Microsoft is not that stupid: http://bit.ly/bQQv01
Copy and Paste IS NOT there NOW, but it will be in RTM versions.
Update: According to Paul Thurrott, Microsoft told him that the functionality isn’t currently present in WP7 but the plan is to implement it before RTM:
So I was told that Windows Phone copy and paste is not definitely, but that they were looking at adding this before RTM. It’s not there now.

and all is well again.
with multitasking shown to work and this i at the very least feel most of the main issues i had with WP7S are gone.
now if there only was some kind of shared filesystem i'd say its a sealed deal.

I've been trying to to bag on the new WinPho7 OS but, seriously? iPhone much?
I was actually getting a little excited--minus the whole closed aspect of the OS--about these phones. I was planing on buying one for developing purposes, but now I'm not even sure about that with this new snip-it of news.
I wish it wasn't true, but Microsoft would have sent a correction email to Engadget if it had been a false statement by one of their people.
Truly a disappointment.

SOULd OUT said:
I've been trying to to bag on the new WinPho7 OS but, seriously? iPhone much?
I was actually getting a little excited--minus the whole closed aspect of the OS--about these phones. I was planing on buying one for developing purposes, but now I'm not even sure about that with this new snip-it of news.
I wish it wasn't true, but Microsoft would have sent a correction email to Engadget if it had been a false statement by one of their people.
Truly a disappointment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read 2 post above you.

Copy and paste will maybe NEVER be included!
Read this load of BULL**** from a Microsoft official:
"We don't enable copy and paste and we do that very intentionally," Windows Phone executive Todd Brix said in an interview.
Brix said many times when a user copies something on a phone, what they really are looking to do is take a specific action, such as calling a phone number or e-mailing an address. For those specific tasks, Microsoft has what it calls "smart linking," which lets a user double click on a phone number and either call it or add it to the phone book. For an address, one can get a map without having to copy and paste the address.
"It's actually an intentional design decision," he said. "We try to anticipate what the user wants so copy and paste isn't necessary."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20000585-56.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0

Jiyuu said:
with multitasking shown to work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. There is no multitasking.

sm3rtlag3l said:
Not true. There is no multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then what would you call
/showpost.php?p=5894203&postcount=27
(can't post links :S)
?

Jiyuu said:
then what would you call
/showpost.php?p=5894203&postcount=27
(can't post links :S)
?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is only in the emulator but will not be on phones. Maybe if you hack the phone like people do on iPhones but otherwise NO.

and you base that on?
i mean, what would be the point of a WP7S emulator if it doesn't actually well, emulate?
they'd have no reason to remove the limitation just for the Emu, and even less to have some kind different version then the actual WP7S system... as that will not make sense development wise. unless this is some kind of bug(in which case microsoft will probably notify developers of it and update the emulator) it will be really stupid to let developers build something and then find out the actual device behaves defferently.

Jiyuu said:
and you base that on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Official words from MS. Forget about it, there is no multitasking on the phone.
The OS itself in theory supports it, that's why it works on the emulator. But on the phone, it is forbidden.

This is bad ...

Pshhh, end users don't really need copy and paste.
What a stupid move

If this is true, does it mean MS will pay Apple royalties for the feature of providing no copy and paste at launch? Or will apple go after the thieves at MS who stole the idea?

see my opinion on missing copy & paste here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=647761

Signature Capture App?

So, i had an interview this morning for a job, and have an opportunity to earna great deal of brownie points with the business owners!
They were thinking of purchasing some sort of electronic signature capture device (like fedex or UPS has when you sign for a package) for invoices.. BUT.. I also mentioned my Droid Eris and how it can do so much... Turns out, both of the Owners have DROIDs lol..
Anyways.. I want to know if anyone has seen some sort of application that can capture signatures, and either save an image to be emailed, or email directly from the app..
OR does anyone know a DEV that could create something as simple as this, that I can talk to and relay updates on the APP to the owners of this company..
They seemed really interested in it, and I'm pretty positive it will show a good bit of initiative in saving their company money from the get-go (on my part)
It would be AWESOME to maybe have a custom app built, specifically for their company, but anything at this point (instant gratification method) would help!
Thank you guys in advance!

EddieVersatile said:
So, i had an interview this morning for a job, and have an opportunity to earna great deal of brownie points with the business owners!
They were thinking of purchasing some sort of electronic signature capture device (like fedex or UPS has when you sign for a package) for invoices.. BUT.. I also mentioned my Droid Eris and how it can do so much... Turns out, both of the Owners have DROIDs lol..
Anyways.. I want to know if anyone has seen some sort of application that can capture signatures, and either save an image to be emailed, or email directly from the app..
OR does anyone know a DEV that could create something as simple as this, that I can talk to and relay updates on the APP to the owners of this company..
They seemed really interested in it, and I'm pretty positive it will show a good bit of initiative in saving their company money from the get-go (on my part)
It would be AWESOME to maybe have a custom app built, specifically for their company, but anything at this point (instant gratification method) would help!
Thank you guys in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like a good idea but it seems like it would be difficult to sign on a capacitative touch screen.

Yeah i understand that part, but I think "finger signing" wouldn't be too bad.. Would there be a way to use some sort of "stylus" maybe with a specialized tip that would actually work on the capacitive touch screen?
I'm mainly just wondering.. I think it would be cool to be able to save thousands of dollars on expensive equipment by using what they already have, and just didn't know they could use it.

Signing would be doable if a person could write one letter at a time. I only really know this because of the google expressions application.

They have styluses for cap screens, My mom has one for her iPad. It was really cheap too
<goes to see if it works with nexus one>

Actually you can build your own. (I tried to post you a link to a how to, but I am not permitted to do so)
mooch

I like this idea, and I think I will work on it. I can't make any promises though, if I choose to do this I will start screwing around with it in the next few days. If you have any feature requests go ahead and post them here. Or you can email me at burlyskink (at) gmail dot com

I have seen a local cable install company use moguls for this purpose

There is a signature capture library available for Android. Search for 'biz.binarysolutions.signature' on the Market. I am not allowed to post links, but the developer's site is hiding behind bit.ly / scfahp

Developer unlock for Mango

If the mango update is being released to developers early, does that mean people who have unlocked their phones will be able to receive this update?
If this is not the case, then if a device is unlocked, can a user pay the $99 unlocking fee in order to have a developer unlocked device?

yes. pay 99$ and u will get it sooner.

Everyone will have it early.........lol......
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

i've only heard it for emus in may. the rumor that devs get it first is a bit presumptuous...

domineus said:
i've only heard it for emus in may. the rumor that devs get it first is a bit presumptuous...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it came from the horses mouth - Brandon Watson. Although, Joe Belfiore said there were no plans to this effect. Question is who we believe, Brandon who is in charge of developers or Joe who is VP for the entire platform.

Brandon also said 4 months ago that ms will make sideloading possible for all. I dont believe him. Probably developer unlocked devices will get mango like 1 day before the official release of mango, which btw will most likely be 100000 weeks before all other will get it through their carriers.

diboze said:
Brandon also said 4 months ago that ms will make sideloading possible for all. I dont believe him. Probably developer unlocked devices will get mango like 1 day before the official release of mango, which btw will most likely be 100000 weeks before all other will get it through their carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please show me where exactly he said this. I think you're paraphrasing incorrectly.

emigrating said:
Well, it came from the horses mouth - Brandon Watson. Although, Joe Belfiore said there were no plans to this effect. Question is who we believe, Brandon who is in charge of developers or Joe who is VP for the entire platform.
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Joe...definitely Joe

domineus said:
Joe...definitely Joe
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You mean the guy who, during US launch, said "Copy'n'paste is coming very very soon"? ;D
I dunno. I'm inclined to go with Brandon on this one. There has been whispers for quite some time already and I know other "features" I've discussed with certain team-members are actually on their way now, even though Joe said otherwise.
We will see what happens I guess. I'm not expecting it to be rolled out simultaneously with the tool update though, but definitely before public release.

emigrating said:
You mean the guy who, during US launch, said "Copy'n'paste is coming very very soon"? ;D
I dunno. I'm inclined to go with Brandon on this one. There has been whispers for quite some time already and I know other "features" I've discussed with certain team-members are actually on their way now, even though Joe said otherwise.
We will see what happens I guess. I'm not expecting it to be rolled out simultaneously with the tool update though, but definitely before public release.
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very very soon is relative man relative! darn you einstein
but seriously I'm still waiting for a solution for sideloading that brandon stated in february sometime...that's all I have to say about that =)

who said that when
source please?

gkoonjul said:
source please?
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feb ppcgeeks podcast
its on zune marketplace

Joe has expanded his answer a little. Basically he said they are working on it but hasn't planned (scheduled) it as of yet.
This is much more in-line with Brandon so I reckon we will get a developers image during the summer.

emigrating said:
Please show me where exactly he said this. I think you're paraphrasing incorrectly.
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Earlier today, we were contacted by Brandon Watson, Director of Developer Experience for Windows Phone 7, to discuss the ChevronWP7 unlocking tool.
Through this discussion, we established a mutual understanding of our intent to enable homebrew opportunities and to open the Windows Phone 7 platform for broader access to developers and users.
To pursue these goals with Microsoft’s support, Brandon Watson has agreed to engage in futher discussions with us about officially facilitating homebrew development on WP7.
Dec 1st
http://www.chevronwp7.com/post/2057541126/pursuing-the-future-of-homebrew-on-windows-phone-7
and now tell me what has happend in this "further" discussion. Yes exactly nothing. No access to needed APIs, no officially supported homebrew, no update progress. Its just hot air coming out of his mouth...

diboze said:
Earlier today, we were contacted by Brandon Watson, Director of Developer Experience for Windows Phone 7, to discuss the ChevronWP7 unlocking tool.
Through this discussion, we established a mutual understanding of our intent to enable homebrew opportunities and to open the Windows Phone 7 platform for broader access to developers and users.
To pursue these goals with Microsoft’s support, Brandon Watson has agreed to engage in futher discussions with us about officially facilitating homebrew development on WP7.
Dec 1st
http://www.chevronwp7.com/post/2057541126/pursuing-the-future-of-homebrew-on-windows-phone-7
and now tell me what has happend in this "further" discussion. Yes exactly nothing. No access to needed APIs, no officially supported homebrew, no update progress. Its just hot air coming out of his mouth...
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Like I said, you were paraphrasing it worng. Nowhere did he say that "ms will make sideloading possible for all". He said they agreed to engage in further discussions about facilitating homebrew development on WP7 - something they have done.
No access to needed APIs? You do realize they announced some 1500+ new APIs during MIX11, right? Tools are coming next month. As for homebrew development, well either you pay the $99 (or you get a free code from someone who can provide them - there are plenty around) or you wait until ManGo when there will very likely be some more news to share in regards to this. Did you really expect them to roll out a homebrew solution with NoDo?

they can announce a lot. they also said nodo would come "early 2011", when did it arrive..ah yes, it was the 2Q of 2011.
Moreover I have no problem with not having a free option for unlocking. I can unlock my phone anytime with my dev acc sponsored by dreamspark.
Its just that you cant believe them anymore. We have to wait 1y to get wp7 to where the other mobile OS are.
Like I said, you were paraphrasing it worng. Nowhere did he say that "ms will make sideloading possible for all". He said they agreed to engage in further discussions about facilitating homebrew development on WP7 - something they have done.
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Its easy to say that now, but at that time it had to sound like they are working on something.
Did you really expect them to roll out a homebrew solution with NoDo?
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I expected them to give the user more freedom. Phone and appwise. Then after nodo was not given...I just wanted the update...now I just want them to shut up. My hopes now are with hackers to open up the plattform and deliver some needed features. But even they arent interested in the OS anymore :'(

I wasn't very happy about the NoDo delays either, but it was released Q1. As unfortunate as the delays were I truly do think it was a one time thing. Any future updates should roll out on the date they tell us - bar operator testing of course, but since I'm on a unbranded device this is of no concern to me personally.
Sources tell me Mango will not be a year after launch, but we will see what happens there. In either case I never expected a large update before August 2011 anyways. What I did expect were lots and lots of smaller updates being rolled out with bugfixes - and this is an area they still have to work on, but Mango in the fall is right on schedule if you ask me.
To be honest, I never believed they would come up with an alternative to Chevron when the hole the tool used was closed. You may have thought so, but there was never any indication made that this would be the case.
As for hackers not being interested anymore. Are you living under a rock? DFT is working on a HSPL for the HTC line of devices and we have community sourced APIs opening up pretty much anything you could want the device to do.
Sure, I can understand where you're coming from - but at the same time I do think they are trying very hard to become more transparent. Can't really ask for more than that.

Even if developers do get priority, im sure someone will help the rest of us, so im not worries and dont care!

As for hackers not being interested anymore. Are you living under a rock? DFT is working on a HSPL for the HTC line of devices and we have community sourced APIs opening up pretty much anything you could want the device to do
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They just opened up what should have already been there
It was not ment as an criticism towards the devs. I love what they do here. But they just dont have enough options to make the apps we users want.
To be honest, I never believed they would come up with an alternative to Chevron when the hole the tool used was closed. You may have thought so, but there was never any indication made that this would be the case.
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And now there is no indication that they will give developers priority on mango? So what makes you think, that they will "deliver" this time?

diboze said:
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And now there is no indication that they will give developers priority on mango? So what makes you think, that they will "deliver" this time?
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There is indications. Brandon Watson has said we are working on it. Joe Belfiore said "no plans" which was apparently taken out of context enough for him to expand his answer days after saying basically the same as Brandon.
Sure, it might be more smoke and empty promises, but these people saying this compares very well with what they (and other senior team members) have said in the past - things which were now presented at MIX11.