Related
I know you want the phone's battery to fully charge and fully drain, but which do I start with? It comes with a partial charge... so should I charge it first? Or drain it first?
Thanks.
thehyecircus said:
I know you want the phone's battery to fully charge and fully drain, but which do I start with? It comes with a partial charge... so should I charge it first? Or drain it first?
Thanks.
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i always charge my phone before using it for the first time.. then let it drain completely then charge it completely. i try to do this a couple times. So far it's worked out for me on all my electronic devices... never had battery problems.
Please do not ruin your batteries as far as i know Lithium-Ion batteries don't need to be drained and charged.
Go down to the second bulleted list, the third bullet
I have never ran my battery completely down, and my Kaiser will last for a full day, and i use it a fair amount.
Wow. Thats good to know.
from my understanding it's mandatory for NiCad batteries to be fully drained but Li-Ion are not. :-D i don't want anyone to have a dead battery :-D
mikemorris said:
Please do not ruin your batteries as far as i know Lithium-Ion batteries don't need to be drained and charged.
Go down to the second bulleted list, the third bullet
I have never ran my battery completely down, and my Kaiser will last for a full day, and i use it a fair amount.
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LMAO.
From the above link:
"-If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
-There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame."
They should be a bit more specific. Lots of people probably think there battery is "completely discharged" when it won't turn on there phone.
Be sure you put it on the charger when you get the low battery notification, or else it may burst into flames!
thehyecircus said:
I know you want the phone's battery to fully charge and fully drain, but which do I start with? It comes with a partial charge... so should I charge it first? Or drain it first?
Thanks.
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If you want to prolong the life of your Lithium-Ion battery, DO NOT let it fully drain. This will decrease your battery's overall charge capacity and you'll find yourself having to recharge more frequently. I'm an electrical engineer by education and profession, so here are a few quick points:
1) You do not have to power cycle a Li-Ion battery. Charge it when it drops to about 70% and typically you don't want it to drop below 50%; extremely low voltage levels could render Li-Ion batteries useless because of the internal circuitry.
2) Charge slowly, with a low current, if possible and avoid rapid chargers.
3) Don't leave your battery charging, unnecessarily, when it is already full--this will also diminish it's maximum potential more rapidly. Only charge it when it needs it and unplug it when at 100%.
4) Keep it away from hot environments (e.g. don't leave it sitting in a black car on a hot Summer day, etc.). Heat kills batteries, along with all electronics.
Battery University is a good resource if you're looking for more information on how to take care of your batteries or just want to understand how they work. Hope this helps.
weaselcossey said:
LMAO.
From the above link:
"-If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
-There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame."
They should be a bit more specific. Lots of people probably think there battery is "completely discharged" when it won't turn on there phone.
Be sure you put it on the charger when you get the low battery notification, or else it may burst into flames!
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Click to collapse
It's actually true that a heavily depleted Li-Ion battery may burst into flames. Li-Ion batteries have a much higher energy density than Ni-Cad and NiMH batteries, and a if they lose too much of their charge, their internal circuitry may become damaged. They should have been more specific in that link, but you should definitely be cautious with Li-Ion battery handling. If it wasn't for the voltage/current regulating circuitry protecting the cells of Li-Ion batteries, they could very well be considered bombs.
So I usually plug my phone in when I come home and unplug it when I leave. Thats bad for my battery? How do I stop it when it reaches 100%?
Man oh man have I been misinformed.
I have ALWAYS heard to drain it fully, then charge it fully...
Fu*kin sh*t!!! I've been destroying li-ion batteries for as long as I've been using them.
So, once you've drained it once it's bad for good, or what?
thehyecircus said:
So I usually plug my phone in when I come home and unplug it when I leave. Thats bad for my battery? How do I stop it when it reaches 100%?
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That's potentially bad for your battery. The protection circuitry in Li-Ion batteries these days are refined enough to prevent overcharging, but leaving it plugged in can still make it build up heat, which I mentioned won't help you. For the average cell phone battery, the typical charge time is about 3 hours for a full cycle. So that being the case, my best advice for you is to check your phone's charge indicator after a few hours and unplug it if it shows it's at 100%.
Lithium-ion battery lifespans are inherently limited by their manufactured date and by the finite number of charge cycles (one charge cycle is considered the charging from 0% to 100%). So if you deplete your battery by 25% each day and recharge to 100% each night, it would take 4 iterations of this process to complete one cycle. Over the course of using your battery you can expect the off-the-shelf maximum potential to decrease by about 20% each year.
r603 said:
Man oh man have I been misinformed.
I have ALWAYS heard to drain it fully, then charge it fully...
Fu*kin sh*t!!! I've been destroying li-ion batteries for as long as I've been using them.
So, once you've drained it once it's bad for good, or what?
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Power cycling by fully draining is good practice for NiMH batteries, since they have different properties. But again, for Li-Ion batteries you should avoid doing this. One full depletion may not destroy it necessarily, but there's a good chance that it will have become damaged. This depends on the battery manufacturer's build quality and specifications. You can pretty much be guaranteed a permanently reduced total capacity with a complete discharge though, sorry to say But I guess now you know for future practice to steer clear of the full drain.
orlandojumpoff said:
i always charge my phone before using it for the first time.. then let it drain completely then charge it completely. i try to do this a couple times. So far it's worked out for me on all my electronic devices... never had battery problems.
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Just FYI, most batteries that are included with new cell phones are pre-charged to approximately 70% in order to maintain a charge above the protection circuit breakdown voltage. The end-user shouldn't have any problems just using the battery out of the box, in this state, but it's a good idea to charge the phone before the first use, just to make sure you're starting from a good reference voltage. Lots of manufacturers include charging recommendations with their lithium-ion batteries stating something along the line that the first charge should be 8+ hours. This is excessive and unnecessary. They probably had some inventory of those notes for some older battery technology or carrying on an obsolete heritage practice. All you have to do is let the phone charge till the full-charge indicator lights up.
Power cycling is helpful from time to time to calibrate the sensor (which is different from the reason you want to do this for nicd)
For everyday use, just charge it whenever you can
It's batteries these days are smart enough to not recharge when already full
I'd carry a retractable mini usb cable to charge it frequently (this will help reduce # of cycles used)
Honestly, I think one of the biggest advantage of having a user-replaceable battery is the fact that you could use the phone without worrying too much about all this
I go by the "I'll put my convenience over the battery's" mentality
Dramacydle said:
Just FYI, most batteries that are included with new cell phones are pre-charged to approximately 70% in order to maintain a charge above the protection circuit breakdown voltage. The end-user shouldn't have any problems just using the battery out of the box, in this state, but it's a good idea to charge the phone before the first use, just to make sure you're starting from a good reference voltage. Lots of manufacturers include charging recommendations with their lithium-ion batteries stating something along the line that the first charge should be 8+ hours. This is excessive and unnecessary. They probably had some inventory of those notes for some older battery technology or carrying on an obsolete heritage practice. All you have to do is let the phone charge till the full-charge indicator lights up.
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The initial overcharge and draining is to compensate for the meter's accuracy (or the lack of it) when a battery is first installed
It's entirely possible for the device to report 0% when the battery is actually alive and well
For example, IBM (now Lenovo) has a little software for their laptops that alerts the user when such power cycling is helpful, and so far, I've benefited from it
We should get such software on Windows Mobile!
How much do you think batteries for this phone will cost? And I'm assuming my local AT&T stores will carry them.
Dramacydle said:
3) Don't leave your battery charging, unnecessarily, when it is already full--this will also diminish it's maximum potential more rapidly. Only charge it when it needs it and unplug it when at 100%.
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Sorry, but as far as I know if the battery meter is 100% the device will prevent overcharging. If you let the device charging overnight in the morning the device will have a normal temperature (it's not getting hot as you said in other post), thus the device doesn't get more that it needs.
thehyecircus said:
We should get such software on Windows Mobile!
How much do you think batteries for this phone will cost? And I'm assuming my local AT&T stores will carry them.
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I can't vouche for the quality, but batteries out of Hong Kong are available at 2 for just under $20 (including shipping) on eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-x2-for-...14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
thehyecircus said:
How much do you think batteries for this phone will cost? And I'm assuming my local AT&T stores will carry them.
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According to the leaked documents from a few days ago, the retail price for the standard battery via AT&T will be $42.00 and $65.00 for the extended battery.
Obviously you can do much better than that with non-OEM products, as noted elsewhere in this thread.
weaselcossey said:
LMAO.
From the above link:
"-If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
-There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame."
They should be a bit more specific. Lots of people probably think there battery is "completely discharged" when it won't turn on there phone.
Be sure you put it on the charger when you get the low battery notification, or else it may burst into flames!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually true that a heavily depleted Li-Ion battery may burst into flames. Li-Ion batteries have a much higher energy density than Ni-Cad and NiMH batteries, and a if they lose too much of their charge, their internal circuitry may become damaged. They should have been more specific in that link, but you should definitely be cautious with Li-Ion battery handling. If it wasn't for the voltage/current regulating circuitry protecting the cells of Li-Ion batteries, they could very well be considered bombs.
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I understand, but I think you would agree that the general public probably doesn't understand what "completely discharged" or "heavily depleted" battery really means when we're talking about cell phone batteries becoming flaming bombs.
I just thought there wording was pretty funny.
Strangely I found that after a full charge at night, if I continue to charge via usb either in my car or on my computer for several hours, the battery will last all day with only very little loss...like 10%.
This also works if I hook my phone to the computer when I get home around 6pm and then hook up to wall plug by my bed (I use it for my alarm) it will also work!
Otherwise with just the single night charge (7hrs) it only will last about 12hrs.
I think the Fuze's circuitry shuts off charging before it is fully charged. I'm ordering a seperate battery charger (I have 2 HTC batteries) when the charger comes in I will see if it does a better job than the phone.
Anyone else have similar stories?
From http://www.wmskins.com/blog/how-to-increase-battery-life-of-windows-mobiles:
1. A Lithium Ion battery should never be charged to 100% or fully Discharged. The famous 80-20 rule is applicable here as well, though in a different way. Charging to 80% increases battery life.
2. Don’t wait for full discharge, charge it frequently. Keeping the battery near to 80% always, gives better life. This is also what many vendors claim as “memory effect”.
I followed that advice and then after a few weeks, when once I charged it to 100%, it dropped quickly to 80%! and has been like that since. now I don't give a damn to that rule and charge my phone to 100% instead.
At this point, I would advise you do a full charge and deep discharge of your phone. Just to allow the phone to calibrate itself to the battery again.
However, I would advise against running programs to intentionally drain it at a high draw. So instead of playing 5 hours of FPSECE to drain it flat, just let it sit on standby and use it as you normally would, until it dies. Then charge it back up in one continuous charge (refrain from unplugging until it goes back to 100%). Hopefully that will restore the accuracy of your battery meter by a bit.
And IMHO, the article you included discusses things about batteries that are no longer true....
2. Don’t wait for full discharge, charge it frequently. Keeping the battery near to 80% always, gives better life. This is also what many vendors claim as “memory effect”.
No. "Memory effect" is, in laymen terms, the battery not being able to hold above a certain charge after being repeatedly discharged from the same capacity. E.g. being discharged at 80%. It doesn't "give battery life" -- in fact it kills your battery's capacity.
This is a term more relevant for old NiCd batteries. LiONs and most NiMH batteries have very weak/no memory effect.
3. Every battery has limited Full charge-discharge cycles. Of the order of 300+. In other words a typical phone battery can be fully charged/discharged 300 times. Doing more frequent charges, as specified in point #2, will increase overall life.
Partially true. Every battery can be charged a number of times before its ability to hold a charge deteriorates. Usually this is around 300, though the exact number varies between individual batteries. However, the concept of a "cycle" isn't exact -- just because you charged from 60-80% (or whatever) doesn't mean you didn't use a cycle. It's really a continuum, and should only be conceptualized as the battery losing its ability to be charged and hold a charge, the more times you charge it.
4. During first time use (when the battery is new) don`t use it till its fully charged. This is why it is always written on manuals “let the device charge for 2-3 hours”.
The necessity of preconditioning is controversial now. There is little evidence to suggest that devices nowadays benefit from preconditioning, and likewise there is little evidence that not doing so harms battery longevity. Many manuals these days simply omit to mention preconditioning.
5. Best way to increase battery life is Not to use it. If you keep AC power plugged in on your phones, keeping the battery at 80% (as in #1), your battery will last longer. Though discharging it once in a month would be must in such cases.
Partially true. Not using your battery does indeed help its longevity, but not by plugging into the AC. Heat is a LiON battery's enemy, and plugging it into your wall will generate heat that is ultimately bad. This translates to laptop batteries as well -- if you want to store a laptop battery, the best bet is to discharge it to 40%, then put it somewhere cool (even the fridge if you want).
Also I would say doing a deep discharge once a month is too frequent. Once every 2 or even 3 months is more appropriate.
Finally, LiON batteries themselves have a shelf life. So even if you let them sit there, they will lose their function after a few years. Just so yo uknow.
6. Surrounding temperature contributes a lot. Colder weather gives better battery life. So make sure your cellphone doesn’t overheat, if it does, find ways to keep it cool.
True. And that's why you shouldn't leave it plugged in.
Learn more about batteries here: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/
felixdd said:
E.g. being discharged at 80%. It doesn't "give battery life" -- in fact it kills your battery's capacity.
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is that so? why? so i guess now my battery's capacity has lessened. damn the article.
have drained my battery to 1% and charged it to 100%. let's see how it goes from here..
good subject for discusion. WM user or not the battery life and the tricks of LION only a few knows.
1.i have two batteries for my HTC. he original battery and one with 2800mAh. Does my phone cofused if i change tha batteries aternately?
2. if ai want to work with my phone for hours is it better to connect it with the charger?
3. Wich kind of charging is better? with USB cable from pc or wall charger.
I have the option in my BIOS for my laptop which says an 80% charge will prolong the lifespan of the battery.
Batteries must undergo a fair bit of research (for environmental impact reasons if nothing else!) and to have such a bold statement to me indicates that its an obvious fact to battery researchers.
Given ive lay in bed this morning messing about on facebook and setting up rss feeds on my phone and emptied a full battery I dont think Id ever stop charging at 80%. Ill just buy another battery!
i really doubt cold weather improves battery life, numerous times my family and I brought electronic products to cold countries and the Battery life always drops at a much quicker rate
dan138zig said:
is that so? why? so i guess now my battery's capacity has lessened. damn the article.
have drained my battery to 1% and charged it to 100%. let's see how it goes from here..
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You are taking what i said out of context.
What I'm saying is that IF your battery had a memory effect as the original article claimed, then charging the battery to only 80 will create a memory at 80, which would be worse for your battery. I'm merely trying to point out an inconsistency in there article.
However, I went on to say that li ON batteries do not have a memory effect. So more relevant to the real world is the fact that our batteries will not experience memory as claimed by the article.
Two main things kill lithium batteries, heat and time as they promote deposits forming in the electrolyte, which reduces the capacity of the battery.
So, buying a "spare" battery at the time you buy a phone with a plan on using it when the original battery starts to fail is a bad idea as the spare battery would be slowly deterorating on the shelf.
Deep charges rather than top up charges are bad as they produce more heat inside the battery, although doing it if your battery doesn't seem to be holding it's chage is a good idea as it should recalibrate the phone's battery level software.
To paraphrase the old saying, " blogs and opinions are like a##holes, everyone has one "
I have followed the links in this thread and so far I have just read unsubstantiated opinion.
I have used " cordless " electronics for most of my life and have used all kinds of batteries extensively as well as talked to company reps and battery " experts ".
Nickel Cadmium batteries had memories. The batteries had to be conditioned and fully charged and discharged. The new Lithium Ion batteries were advantageous , not only because they held a bigger charge and lasted longer, but also because they have NO memory. The latest example being, I regularly charged my Tilt battery to all levels of charge. Mostly 100% everyday and ran it down to 5% most times before charging it again. I used it a lot and charged it a lot. and it lasted 2 yrs.
The only difference I have really noticed in batteries has nothing to do with the way you charge it. It has to do with " getting what you pay for " I have had quality batteries really show their quality and $ 12 batteries give me up to and only my $12 worth.
Charging Lithium Ion Batteries to 80%
denco7 said:
To paraphrase the old saying, " blogs and opinions are like a##holes, everyone has one "
I have followed the links in this thread and so far I have just read unsubstantiated opinion.
I have used " cordless " electronics for most of my life and have used all kinds of batteries extensively as well as talked to company reps and battery " experts ".
Nickel Cadmium batteries had memories. The batteries had to be conditioned and fully charged and discharged. The new Lithium Ion batteries were advantageous , not only because they held a bigger charge and lasted longer, but also because they have NO memory. The latest example being, I regularly charged my Tilt battery to all levels of charge. Mostly 100% everyday and ran it down to 5% most times before charging it again. I used it a lot and charged it a lot. and it lasted 2 yrs.
The only difference I have really noticed in batteries has nothing to do with the way you charge it. It has to do with " getting what you pay for " I have had quality batteries really show their quality and $ 12 batteries give me up to and only my $12 worth.
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I have a Nissan Leaf. It is clear that the engineers have spent a LOT of time thinking about how to maximize the life of the battery in the car. One of the options the car come with is to ALWAYS charge the batteries to 80%. In fact, they've gone as far as to add a button on the dashboard to override that setting in cases where a 100% charge is needed. According to the documentation that comes with the car, this is the single most important step to prolonging battery life. Next is frequent charges. Next is monitoring battery temperature which is constantly shown in a BIG display on the dashboard. In general, a good way to think about a lithium ion battery is that over its life you're trying to maximize the amount of power stored and then subsequently removed from the device. From the research I've done, if the "charging/discharging life" of the battery were cycles that swung from 100% to 0% you might get X kwHrs of power "moved" through the battery, yet if you were to limit charges to 80% and constantly charge it after each use, you could expect at least 2X! So it's a big deal. I live in Bellevue, Washington which has a very mild climate and have put 26,000 miles on this car in the last 2 years, making mostly small 3-to-20 mile trips, and I routinely charge the car when I pull into the garage, and would estimate that the battery has been charged well over 1000 times. To date, there is no detectable loss in battery capacity; the first indication of which would appear on the car's instrumentation when just over 4% of the charging capacity of the car has been lost.
My Sony VAIO Pro 13 actually offers the 80/20 option in Power Settings. However, I do not use it.
There is no “break-in” or “conditioning” required for the Li-ion batteries. They do not need the old “fully discharge – fully charge” routine for the initial three charges as was recommended on older battery technologies. For a number of years now, the advice has been to fully drain a new rechargeble battery at least three times in a row, then do so at least once a month from then on in order to ‘condition’ it. This is designed to prevent ‘memory’ effects and to prolong the life and capacity of the rechargeable battery.
Unfortunately, it appears that this advice is not only incorrect but could be causing battery damage in that it’s reducing the shelf-life of your equipment.
Modern Li-ion batteries apparently do not suffer from memory effects. All that matters is how many recharging cycles they support. The more cycles they are put through, the less effective they become at holding a charge down the line. The caveat, however, is that you can accelerate their decline by forcing them to drain deeper and deeper.
According to Battery University, the depth-of-discharge on a Li-ion device will determine its ultimate cycle count. What this means in practice is that you should recharge your battery frequently and let it drain as little as possible in between recharges. Partial discharges are better.
As expected, high temperatures are also disastrous to the lifespan of Li-ion batteries. Interestingly, high-voltage charging has a similar effect. Higher voltages will charge the battery faster but damage it. The article suggests that user-regulated voltages for laptop batteries might be a useful way to allow the consumer to decide which is more important to them in their daily useage – faster recharge or longer life.
Always store a Li-ion battery full charged. Not doing so will reduce its lifespan and capacity.
Similarly, it would seem that keeping it connected to a power supply when it is 100% charged is not very wise either.
Thanks for posting this! I was wondering something similar after I got my Sensation. I was looking to improve my battery life and was wondering if the fact that I've let my battery discharge irregularly only a handful of times along with hardly ever leaving it off the USB laptop cable at home had anything to do with it. I'll be sure not to discharge it unnecessarily from now on.
Tacjim said:
There is no “break-in” or “conditioning” required for the Li-ion batteries. They do not need the old “fully discharge – fully charge” routine for the initial three charges as was recommended on older battery technologies. For a number of years now, the advice has been to fully drain a new rechargeble battery at least three times in a row, then do so at least once a month from then on in order to ‘condition’ it. This is designed to prevent ‘memory’ effects and to prolong the life and capacity of the rechargeable battery.
Unfortunately, it appears that this advice is not only incorrect but could be causing battery damage in that it’s reducing the shelf-life of your equipment.
Modern Li-ion batteries apparently do not suffer from memory effects. All that matters is how many recharging cycles they support. The more cycles they are put through, the less effective they become at holding a charge down the line. The caveat, however, is that you can accelerate their decline by forcing them to drain deeper and deeper.
According to Battery University, the depth-of-discharge on a Li-ion device will determine its ultimate cycle count. What this means in practice is that you should recharge your battery frequently and let it drain as little as possible in between recharges. Partial discharges are better.
As expected, high temperatures are also disastrous to the lifespan of Li-ion batteries. Interestingly, high-voltage charging has a similar effect. Higher voltages will charge the battery faster but damage it. The article suggests that user-regulated voltages for laptop batteries might be a useful way to allow the consumer to decide which is more important to them in their daily useage – faster recharge or longer life.
Always store a Li-ion battery full charged. Not doing so will reduce its lifespan and capacity.
Similarly, it would seem that keeping it connected to a power supply when it is 100% charged is not very wise either.
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I have to disagree with this to an extent, as its preferred to discharge and recharge the first times, as it freshens the cells and calibrates the phone to the battery.
But after this you should recharge it when it's at 30-40%
Also you should not leave a lithium batter fully charged when storing it, but rather have it at 60% and throw it in the refrigerator. This is what i have been doing to all mine batteries, but don't let it freeze though, this will harm the battery!
There's nothing worse than a know-it-all Uni student! If there's a real technician or scientist on the matter I would like to hear their advice.
As I am a mechanical technician I use a variety of battery powered tools all of which are Li-ion, I like to condition all my batteries but for the few that cannot be conditioned due to lack of time those particular batteries are, weaker, last less time and overall die out faster.
Flashmore said:
There's nothing worse than a know-it-all Uni student! If there's a real technician or scientist on the matter I would like to hear their advice.
As I am a mechanical technician I use a variety of battery powered tools all of which are Li-ion, I like to condition all my batteries but for the few that cannot be conditioned due to lack of time those particular batteries are, weaker, last less time and overall die out faster.
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Haha, it's not a Uni student, its batter university, a well known webpage
http://batteryuniversity.com/
Utking said:
Haha, it's not a Uni student, its batter university, a well known webpage
http://batteryuniversity.com/
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I see, so I suppose it just posted this all on its own?
Flashmore said:
I see, so I suppose it just posted this all on its own?
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No this man did: Isidor Buchmann
http://www.cadex.com/about/people.asp
http://www.myistop.com/blogs/greenbatterys/isidor-buchmann-battery
http://nutsvolts.texterity.com/nutsvolts/200612/?folio=58#pg58
I believe i can say i trust him
Are you sure? sounds more like Dracula's side kick, haha
Utking said:
I have to disagree with this to an extent, as its preferred to discharge and recharge the first times, as it freshens the cells and calibrates the phone to the battery.
But after this you should recharge it when it's at 30-40%
Also you should not leave a lithium batter fully charged when storing it, but rather have it at 60% and throw it in the refrigerator. This is what i have been doing to all mine batteries, but don't let it freeze though, this will harm the battery!
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This is exactly what I do. Last time I drained a phone down to 0% it killed the battery and wouldn't hold charge like it used to (was fine before I did it). Was on an old LG. Same thing happened to a friends phone too. From then on I try and tell everyone to never do it as well.
While I'm sure you have your sources, I have to disagree. When I got my vibrant, I didn't condition it at all, battery life was horrible. I bought a new battery (the same one), conditioned it, and it was 10000x better.
But I do agree that batteries have become much greater than they used to be about this.
Batteries are always a fun topic
This comes from rooted phones and batterystats.bin
It's recommended when you flash your new ROM that you turn off the phone. Than fully charge it. And while still charging removing batterystats.bin so your android phone knows 100% and than let it die down so it knows 0%.
I think that is where this all came from.
Flashmore said:
There's nothing worse than a know-it-all Uni student! If there's a real technician or scientist on the matter I would like to hear their advice.
As I am a mechanical technician I use a variety of battery powered tools all of which are Li-ion, I like to condition all my batteries but for the few that cannot be conditioned due to lack of time those particular batteries are, weaker, last less time and overall die out faster.
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The only thing I'm trying to do is help people from shortening the life of their batteries by listening to people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. Since you seem to spout out that "unconditioned" lithium Ion batteries are weaker, last less time and die out faster...lets see some professional resources from your "know it all" conclusion?
By no means an expert, just putting in my 2cent, i think people seem to mix the ideas of battery conditioning and recalibration. I think it IS useful to recalibrate batteries by draining the battery to 0% so the phone can recognize the accurate battery levels. However in terms of the battery, its always the same and there is no "reconditioning". the drain/recharge cycle is only useful for the PHONE for accurate recognition of battery level.
personally, i havn't bought into the conditioning aspect.. i can afford the $10-$15 it takes to replace a battery when it dies out and i always charge before it is dead (min 30%); (on the sensation so i dont lose temp root) but also because usually it would take 10 minutes or so for it to get enough juice to turn back on (in the iphones/touch's case.. but in any case i had always learnt that NiMH batteries you could drain fully and make sure to fully charge before you use them again; whereas Li-ion you could charge at 30% keep your good life and use the device at the same time pretty simple really
c19932 said:
By no means an expert, just putting in my 2cent, i think people seem to mix the ideas of battery conditioning and recalibration. I think it IS useful to recalibrate batteries by draining the battery to 0% so the phone can recognize the accurate battery levels. However in terms of the battery, its always the same and there is no "reconditioning". the drain/recharge cycle is only useful for the PHONE for accurate recognition of battery level.
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Agreed. From what I've read this hasn't anything to do with battery capacity or memory effect, it's so the phone can calibrate itself correctly to the battery inserted using the batterystats file giving a better indication of peak to zero.
Tacjim said:
The only thing I'm trying to do is help people from shortening the life of their batteries by listening to people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. Since you seem to spout out that "unconditioned" lithium Ion batteries are weaker, last less time and die out faster...lets see some professional resources from your "know it all" conclusion?
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Well you know what they say it takes one to know one!
As well as that I havent "spouted" anything (well not here anyway hehe)
My conclusion is this, dont believe everything you read, what a cliché
Seriously though I already gave my "real" practical know-it-all conclusion so unless you have somethijng to disprove it go and you know what
will fast charging will damage battery.?
I want to use fast charger for Nexus 5. Original charger gives 5.6 volts and 1.2 Ampere output.
Some post I found on xda which shows that fast charging working perfect on nexus 5,
can OP tell me that fast charging will affect battery or not? If it affects then how can I find its getting affected?
Thread which shows nexus 5 fast charging works perfectly.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/goo.../hands-best-fastest-cheapest-nexus-5-t2729066
One of the things I have noticed scouring the internet for tips on battery life prolongation, is that you end up with lots of contradictory advice coming from unreferenced (and often, unresearched) sources. (Note that by 'prolonging', I mean both prolonging the current battery cycle, and also, how to prolong the battery in the long term).
One big question is how you should be recharging it. For example:
Do you let the battery go down low, and then recharge it back to full?
Do you only do partial discharges, and always keep the battery topped up?
When available, is it better to work plugged in?
There are two helpful articles, both from the Battery University, which seems reliable and they have nice experimental data.
[1] Charging lithium batteries
[2] How to prolong lithium batteries
From what I gather, the answer to the above questions are as follows:
Full discharges will reduce the number of recharge cycles in your battery. For example, going to 100% discharge only gives a battery with 500 discharges, while going to 10% discharge gives a battery with 4700 discharges. Note that this advice contradicts other 'unreferenced' sources, like here:
Change your charging pattern: Most of us have the habit of charging the phone quite often even when the phone has enough battery left on it. It’s always better to leave the battery to discharge completely to say like 20% and only then recharge it. This way your battery will not only also last longer but also has longer life.
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It is better to note recharge to full
Li-ion does not need to be fully charged, as is the case with lead acid, nor is it desirable to do so. In fact, it is better not to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery. Choosing a lower voltage threshold, or eliminating the saturation charge altogether, prolongs battery life but this reduces the runtime. Since the consumer market promotes maximum runtime, these chargers go for maximum capacity rather than extended service life.
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However, I admit that this is a fairly PITA rule to implement. It would be impractical to always charge only to, say 80%. I think this rule, in practice, advises against charging all the way to 100% because then your charger may put in the topping charge (how many chargers do this?)
It is better to not leave devices plugged into wall charges.
Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles. The battery is continuously being discharged to 4.20V/cell and then charged by the device. The stress level on the battery is especially high because the cycles occur at the 4.20V/cell threshold.
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A portable device must be turned off during charge.
This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current. A parasitic load confuses the charger by depressing the battery voltage and preventing the current in the saturation stage to drop low. A battery may be fully charged, but the prevailing conditions prompt a continued charge. This causes undue battery stress and compromises safety.
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This, however, spawns two further questions:
What about USB charging? Because USB charging is slower (due to a lower amperage), is there any advantage to working with your tablet plugged into a USB drive? Is this better than discharging the battery?
I work with my laptop plugged in all the time. Partly, there is nothing I can do about it (Macbooks no longer allow easy removable of the battery). This means that on top of the heat degrading the battery, one must contend with the battery contunually being charged. What are the safeguards in place? I would imagine a smart charging system would lower the voltage and amperage when a laptop is plugged in.
I remember when I used a iPhone that one cycle includes partial charges and discharges like if you charge 10% and then another 20% and so on you ad those until you get 100% of a cycle, this was according to apple. That's why you can get your battery dead in one year and half (since they promises 450ish battery cycles )
Inntresting reading...
Sent from HTC Sensation, Elegancia ROM Series....
Hey, thanks for this, man. Good tips. I don't want to go abusing the batteries of all those shiny new Christmas gadgets.
Thanks very useful tips
Yes for li-ion you never want it to fully discharge.
Rift
I like the research you did here very nice. I have an EVO and that thing can't hold a charge for anything. I have like three batteries (two that come with wall chargers) just so I know I'm not going to run out of juice when I need it. I could leave everything off like mobile data, wifi, etc but then why do I have a fancy smancy phone then to begin with I want to use the damn thing. The battery is my only real issue I have with this magnificent phone. Thanks for taking the time to do some research on the subject.
Thanks for the tips. Battery is important than CPU now as for UX is concerned.
battery management
i found the battery manager from Market Place really useful for my I9000 Galaxy S on ICS
thanks for the good information
Thanks for this news
If your worried about power "cleanliness" you could always get a power conditioner to guarantee level output.
Now with batteries being able to be replaced easy enough (droid user) and with in my price point I don't give it too much thought.
Thanks for the great info, should be a big help
Glad I have insurance.... battery dies, they give me a new one!-
3G or 2G
Had someone checked, if using 2G instead of 3G giving the much better battery life?
If you are asking if you get more battery life with 2G than 3G, I think it's the same. The battery life should be less if you have the option "use 2G/3G preferred" because the phone searches simultaneously for 2G and 3G frequencies
Now that you bring that up, has anybody compared 3g to 4G battery life?
Thanks for the tips. It really does get confusing when coming to batteries.
Thank you for the advice
i agree...and have found this all true in my own studys and doings
A Li-ion battery has a limited numer of charge cycles, but what constitutes a charge cycle? According to some people a charge cycle is used every time the charger is connected. Another opinion is that only a charge from 0 - 100% consumes one charge cycle. So how is it really? If the first assumption is true then one should only charge when the battery is almost emty. If the other one is true then it's ok to charge at any time.
Tom200 said:
A Li-ion battery has a limited numer of charge cycles, but what constitutes a charge cycle? According to some people a charge cycle is used every time the charger is connected. Another opinion is that only a charge from 0 - 100% consumes one charge cycle. So how is it really? If the first assumption is true then one should only charge when the battery is almost emty. If the other one is true then it's ok to charge at any time.
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A charge cycle is the process of charging a rechargeable battery and discharging it as required into a load. The term is typically used to specify a battery's expected life, as the number of charge cycles affects life more than the mere passage of time. Discharging the battery fully before recharging may be called "deep discharge"; partially discharging then recharging may be called "shallow discharge.
Apple Inc. clarifies that a charge cycle means using all the battery's capacity, but not necessarily by full charge and discharge; e.g., using half the charge of a fully charged battery, charging it, and then using the same amount of charge again count as a single charge cycle. -Wikipedia
Hit thanks if I helped
Rumple007 said:
A charge cycle is the process of charging a rechargeable battery and discharging it as required into a load. The term is typically used to specify a battery's expected life, as the number of charge cycles affects life more than the mere passage of time. Discharging the battery fully before recharging may be called "deep discharge"; partially discharging then recharging may be called "shallow discharge.
Apple Inc. clarifies that a charge cycle means using all the battery's capacity, but not necessarily by full charge and discharge; e.g., using half the charge of a fully charged battery, charging it, and then using the same amount of charge again count as a single charge cycle. -Wikipedia
Hit thanks if I helped
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Ok, but that means that charging the battery a lot instead of waiting until it's almost completely drained, shortens its lifespan.
Ideally, a Lithium based battery is "healthiest" at or about mid level. A full charge cycle is technically not 0-100%, as these batteries (at least in consumer electronics) have circuitry built-in to prevent overcharging, overdischarging, and shorts. Overdischarging can cause what's called runaway discharge, where it'll keep discharging even if not connected to anything or the device is turned off. Heat, possible fire, and even explosion. Those Dell and Sony laptops that were catching fire several years ago? That was because the protection circuitry was faulty. And why you should always buy OEM factory batteries, or ones made by reputable companies like Zerolemon or Anker, and not cheap Chinese knockoffs. Hobbiests (flashlights, R/C equipment) often use unprotected batteries since they can get a bit more capacity out of them, but this is dangerous and requires monitoring and judgement.
So the answer is a charge cycle is from 0-100% and back down to 0% (or the opposite; charged, discharged, then charged - depending on your point of view), where 0% is the point where the circuitry within the battery and/or the device itself cuts the power.
There is no need to "condition" lithium rechargeable batteries (ie: fully drain them, don't use until fully charged, etc); this is a holdover from the days of nickel-cadmium (Ni-Cad) batteries, which did require conditioning for optimal performance.
The main destroyer of a lithium battery really isn't even the charge/discharging of it, but rather the heat associated with it. For example, one can keep a battery charging and charged at 95-100% while playing an intense game, downloading a large file, or running a wi-fi hotspot, but this sill quickly destroy the battery, even there's no actual "cycle" happening. The ~500 charge cycle figure assumes a typical usage of training and charging. The reason a battery is "healthiest" at mid levels is that this is where there's the least heat being generated.
Yeah, I have kind of adapted to the thought that charging whenever doesn't impact the battery in a negative way. So if my charge is 80% and I'm going out for the day, I still charge it to full 100%. If however (as the first answer suggests) this consumes an extra cycle then it would be best not to charge it. In the past this didn't matter so much but with many phones these days it's hard or even impossible for the user to replace the battery. This makes the answer to my question more important...
Tom200 said:
Yeah, I have kind of adapted to the thought that charging whenever doesn't impact the battery in a negative way. So if my charge is 80% and I'm going out for the day, I still charge it to full 100%. If however (as the first answer suggests) this consumes an extra cycle then it would be best not to charge it. In the past this didn't matter so much but with many phones these days it's hard or even impossible for the user to replace the battery. This makes the answer to my question more important...
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80-100% is not a cycle, it's 20% of a cycle. However, it is the worst part of the cycle (higher voltages, more heat). Ideally, for the battery's health and longevity over the months/years, it'd be best to keep it between, say, 30-70%. But this is impractical, potentially impossible for some, and, frankly, dangerous.
That's why I'll only buy phones with replaceable batteries. Either instantly, or without terrible difficulty when the battery hits that ~500 cycle mark. I have 3 phones: A Galaxy S4 (with a couple spares, including a 7800mAh Anker), a Nexus 4, which I've replaced the battery on, and a OnePlus One, which I know I can replace if/when I need to. I'll never get something like a S6 or Note5 or iPhone where battery replacement is nigh-impossible.
Planterz said:
80-100% is not a cycle, it's 20% of a cycle. However, it is the worst part of the cycle (higher voltages, more heat). Ideally, for the battery's health and longevity over the months/years, it'd be best to keep it between, say, 30-70%. But this is impractical, potentially impossible for some, and, frankly, dangerous.
That's why I'll only buy phones with replaceable batteries. Either instantly, or without terrible difficulty when the battery hits that ~500 cycle mark. I have 3 phones: A Galaxy S4 (with a couple spares, including a 7800mAh Anker), a Nexus 4, which I've replaced the battery on, and a OnePlus One, which I know I can replace if/when I need to. I'll never get something like a S6 or Note5 or iPhone where battery replacement is nigh-impossible.
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Yeah, it's very annoying that not batteries on all cell phones are user replaceable. And we can exchange them on some phones anyway with a little trouble, but as you write it's completely impossible with some. I put in the charge if my battery is 50% or something and I'm going out later. This should consume only half a a cycle and it's practical for me.
I now charge when the battery is like 75% before I'm going out. Is this ok or should I let the battery drain and then charge? The latter I did for a long time with a phone I had, and the battery had great performance until I sold it.