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to whom is knowledgable and also like to explain like Ted mozbi in How I met Your Mother show.... please what is the defernce between ARM based tablet and Intel based tablet???? what concerns me the most is it like I can install exe. file on the intel while I can't in the ARM !?
The major difference between the two is that they typically refer to the the architecture of the cpu. This means how it was designed and how machine instructions are interpreted by cpu.
The answer is yes and no for whether you can install exe's. Yes, they will both be able to install different programs and applications. However, the application or program in question will have to be compiled for that architecture. I haven't done any windows mobile development but my guess is that most if not all apps you can download from the market place will be available for both architectures.
Hopefully that can clear things up a bit.
Wow fastest replay ever seen thanks a milion,,, it did clear out the picture clearer then before ...
To add a little more to the above, Windows on ARM (WoA) will only be able to run Metro style apps, specifically written for Windows 8. I also think that it will only be able to get these apps through the Windows Marketplace. I'm sure there'll be a jailbreak before it's even released, but I think this will still only allow metro style apps written for Windows 8, it'll just allow for them to be installed from other sources. Jailbreaking may also allow non-metro desktop style apps, it's too early to tell, but these will still have to be specially written for WoA.
Windows 8 on Intel chips will be able to run all legacy apps (which will now be called desktop mode apps to differentiate them from Metro apps), from any and all sources, just like your normal Windows PC can now. It will also be able to run Metro apps from the marketplace, and presumably from any other source as well.
See also http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1466400
for the Definitive guide to Windows on ARM
stevenmu said:
To add a little more to the above, Windows on ARM (WoA) will only be able to run Metro style apps, specifically written for Windows 8. I also think that it will only be able to get these apps through the Windows Marketplace.
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Click to collapse
To add on, Windows on ARM is called Windows RT. Metro Style Apps is able to cross-platform on the x86, x64 and also ARM while Desktop Apps are able to run on x86 and x64. However, preinstalled Desktop Apps such as Office 15 (Microsoft Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, etc.) will be able to run on the ARM version.
So after playing with my Surface for 5 days now, it is obvious there is a lot of capability in the back end through the Desktop. II have networked printers, and drives at both home and office going, streaming content etc. It is very capable for what it is, way beyond any other Ipad and Android tablet out there. So it seems to me it is just a matter of time before some XDAer figures out a way to unleash it and possibly load other programs (non-RT) programs some way. We know the official MS word is no, but it seems to me it is a fully capable Win8 machine that just has some goierners on it and limited processing power, just waiting to be cracked.
Am I just dreaming?
I would love to see this happen. The one thing holding me back from purchasing one. I'd love a Windows 8 Pro version tablet at the Surface RT pricing but wouldn't we all...
I dont think rt can run x86 app properly. Because the cpu is not as good as x86 core. I am interested in porting rt to compatiable device such as tergra 2 and 3 pad.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
liu2002 said:
I dont think rt can run x86 app properly. Because the cpu is not as good as x86 core. I am interested in porting rt to compatiable device such as tergra 2 and 3 pad.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it's necessarily about the Tegra being "as good" as an x86 - the issue is that you'd need an emulator, or the source for the x86 app which you'd then need to re-compile for ARM. I believe MS made a developer toolkit available that allows simpler conversion from x86 to ARM but it's still up to the app vendors to do it.
In theory, the same code could compile for both x86/64 and ARM (RT), but VS2012 will not allow you to compile an ARM desktop app. There is no legit way to write/compile a desktop app on RT. Its an arbitrary BS limitation put in place by MS. You cannot side load apps, everything must come through the MS store, RT enterprise being an exception... which doesn't help us. And the MS store will only offer Metro apps. MS office shows that's desktop apps are fully possible, albeit recoded/recompiled for ARM, but MS will not allow it. In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Skitals said:
In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you say that?
Because its not allowed, only metro style apps published through the app store are allowed. Even if you compile compatible desktop software, the OS won't run it. Its a closed sandbox.
At best we can hope for a "homebrew" community to compile open source software, and find some hacks to get it running.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Hello,
I’m a happy owner of the Surface RT and I just wanted to add my 2c.
I think that Metro UI is great for tablet, but lacks apps !
So I cannot understand why Microsoft didn’t include .Net on this platform ! I think the main goal and the first “Homebrew” must be recompilation of Mono for ARM. As this will allow us develop a lot of programs, quickly and using “good” tools (Visual )
I just started to study WinRT and I’m already hitting a lot of blocks (For instance, I cannot find a way to open Shared Socket ! So if any other app listen on 1900 port, I lose my SSDP discovery... )
But I think recompilation of Mono is definitely a way to go ! I think i’ll try it this week-end, if I have some time, but It’s sure I will not be able install on my surface As for now it seems to be impossible to enter Testing Mode on it.
Jurion
jurion said:
So I cannot understand why Microsoft didn’t include .Net on this platform !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think people seem to be missing something here (well, not just here, on other threads/forums.blogs too). MS have essentially (it’s really quite impressive) ported over the entire Windows OS to run on ARM – and this includes all of .NET v4 with supporting libraries/DLLs.
You only have to pop to C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319 on your Surface RT to see – all the same libraries for the same version of .NET a x86 desktop seem to be there - including Linq, SQL, reflection etc.
Now, this could be really great news! I’d bet that it would be entirely possible for standard .NET applications (by standard, I mean programs that only use managed code and nothing legacy) to be reasonably easily recompiled to run on ARM - ideally as easyily as changing a drop-down!
Furthermore, this is all supported in Visual Studio, it’s just locked down a bit - I’ve been able to compile, with VS2012 (and a minor tweak to remove the ARM compile block) a simple command line EXE for ARM (using .NET calls – though only in C++ which is a shame). The problem is, as soon I open it on Surface, I get an error saying the ‘digital certificate’ couldn't be validated – a common issue which has a simple fix documented online. The catch... that the instructions to remove this block don’t work with secure boot enabled, and - at present - we can’t disable this on the Surface (on normal PCs this can be turned off in the bios).
So – the key to all this, is for MS to open it up (not impossible, but who knows if or when) or for someone to get round this secure boot/certificate requirement. I’m sure there’s some smart people on here with abilities to work on, and hopefully succeed in doing this. Even if people aren't able to work a way round this block, I'm hopefully that eventually MS may release some firmware update tools that someone can hack to switch off UEFI secure boot. Or perhaps someone at MS or a partner may leak some file/app/boot that unlocks this for dev/enterprise purposes.
I look forward to it happening!
T
Skitals said:
In theory, the same code could compile for both x86/64 and ARM (RT), but VS2012 will not allow you to compile an ARM desktop app. There is no legit way to write/compile a desktop app on RT. Its an arbitrary BS limitation put in place by MS. You cannot side load apps, everything must come through the MS store, RT enterprise being an exception... which doesn't help us. And the MS store will only offer Metro apps. MS office shows that's desktop apps are fully possible, albeit recoded/recompiled for ARM, but MS will not allow it. In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything doesn't have to come through the MS store, you can install applications that you build in Visual Studio 2012 for Windows Store, create an appx package and choose not to publish it in Windows Store. VS2012 then creates an appx package as well as a PowerShell script that you can run on Surface, accept security warning, get the developer's license on the device (it's free) and that's it!
It is fairly obvious why MS does not allow installation of "Desktop" apps on ARM tablets. Otherwise dev's would get lazy and just recompile desktop apps for ARM. The experience on a touch tablet would not be great on (unmodified) Desktop apps, hence Microsoft set this constraint on Windows RT in order to push dev's towards making a proper touch friendly app. The result is of course the lack of apps initially, but in the long run the benefits will be a greater experience as the apps would be optimized for touch.
Sure there are obvious downsides to this strategy, but the decision itself makes a lot of sense from a useability standpoint. You already read the complaints in reviews about "Office" not being Metro-style and unfriendly to touch. However this is naturally a decision due to time constraints, because MS would have also preferred to not include a desktop on RT. Office is the selling point now, to gravitate people towards RT and when there is enough demand, the touch friendly (Metro) apps will flow in eventually
Backflipping said:
I think people seem to be missing something here (well, not just here, on other threads/forums.blogs too). MS have essentially (it’s really quite impressive) ported over the entire Windows OS to run on ARM – and this includes all of .NET v4 with supporting libraries/DLLs.
You only have to pop to C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319 on your Surface RT to see – all the same libraries for the same version of .NET a x86 desktop seem to be there - including Linq, SQL, reflection etc.
Now, this could be really great news! I’d bet that it would be entirely possible for standard .NET applications (by standard, I mean programs that only use managed code and nothing legacy) to be reasonably easily recompiled to run on ARM - ideally as easyily as changing a drop-down!
Furthermore, this is all supported in Visual Studio, it’s just locked down a bit - I’ve been able to compile, with VS2012 (and a minor tweak to remove the ARM compile block) a simple command line EXE for ARM (using .NET calls – though only in C++ which is a shame). The problem is, as soon I open it on Surface, I get an error saying the ‘digital certificate’ couldn't be validated – a common issue which has a simple fix documented online. The catch... that the instructions to remove this block don’t work with secure boot enabled, and - at present - we can’t disable this on the Surface (on normal PCs this can be turned off in the bios).
So – the key to all this, is for MS to open it up (not impossible, but who knows if or when) or for someone to get round this secure boot/certificate requirement. I’m sure there’s some smart people on here with abilities to work on, and hopefully succeed in doing this. Even if people aren't able to work a way round this block, I'm hopefully that eventually MS may release some firmware update tools that someone can hack to switch off UEFI secure boot. Or perhaps someone at MS or a partner may leak some file/app/boot that unlocks this for dev/enterprise purposes.
I look forward to it happening!
T
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, sorry my bad, didn't look enougth to find .Net assemblies.
As for open it for MS, may be, maaaay be it's the same scheme which they followed with Windows Phone 7.
No native developpment for 7.0 -- 7.8
But they open it for 8.0
May be they just want to force people developp Metro app to populate the store first.
So where's the best place to get one?
I'm looking into buying one very very soon, I found some on ebay for $585 with the cover, That sounds like a win to me. I wish QVC had it, That'd be lovely.
I'm praying we get a work around for all this, But still If the device isn't made for it, I can't be mad that it doesn't do it, That's like being angry that my car doesn't fly.
But it's such a tease, it worries me that I'll have an entire desktop, Sitting, Obselete, With nothing but Office, which I wont even use.
Can't_Live_Without_My_Evo said:
I'm looking into buying one very very soon, I found some on ebay for $585 with the cover, That sounds like a win to me. I wish QVC had it, That'd be lovely.
I'm praying we get a work around for all this, But still If the device isn't made for it, I can't be mad that it doesn't do it, That's like being angry that my car doesn't fly.
But it's such a tease, it worries me that I'll have an entire desktop, Sitting, Obselete, With nothing but Office, which I wont even use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is made for it. It has the full desktop, and the full desktop Office suite. Its a big tease. The whole "do more" campaign advertises you can "click in" and have full laptop productivity with touchpad and mouse/keyboard. Except the only software to take advantage of it is desktop IE and Office.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Right now 8.1 is a preview but what happens when it is fully released? Will windows RT auto update to it even if we don't like 8.1 and want to stay on Windows 8 RT?
I know you can disable auto-updates by hacking the registry but Id rather not have to do that.
Any way to keep automatic updates but ensure your system never upgrades to 8.1?
Why? 8.1 works great.
ap3604 said:
Any way to keep automatic updates but ensure your system never upgrades to 8.1?
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Click to collapse
Windows RT is supported by WSUS. I never tested it myself, but you can setup your device to get updates not from MS site but from your local WSUS server - and just don't approve there the updates you don't like.
And similar to earlier service packs - there would be an "8.1 blocker" (look for Win7 SP1 blocker here: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=22464). As this is just a registry key - it may work on RT too.
Dane Reynolds said:
Why? 8.1 works great.
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Click to collapse
One massive issue with 8.1 which is enough to keep a large user base from updating: jailbreak.
Once there is a jailbreak for 8.1 though, then your argument would be valid.
Not sure why you wouldn't want to run updates but so far Windows 8.1 rocks! Makes RT so much better.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
One massive issue with 8.1 which is enough to keep a large user base from updating: jailbreak.
Once there is a jailbreak for 8.1 though, then your argument would be valid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You talking about a jailbreak for 8.1 RT? Is so what type of stuff can you do with the jailbreak?
Dane Reynolds said:
Why? 8.1 works great.
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Click to collapse
phantomlightgames said:
Not sure why you wouldn't want to run updates but so far Windows 8.1 rocks! Makes RT so much better.
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Click to collapse
Not on the Asus Vivo RT it doesn't :silly:
8.1 really f#&@'s up the trackpad
Wow that's good to know.. I'm currently running it on a Dell T3500 desktop both Surface RT & Pro.
Are you sure it's not a driver issue. Maybe Asus have some updates available for track pad?
@Dane Reynolds: You new here? The Windows RT jailbreak has been a pretty big deal - especially on the RT Dev&Hacking sub-forum here - since its initial reveal over half a year ago. It removes the signing restrictions that Microsoft uses to lock out third-party desktop apps. With the jailbreak, you can:
1) Run .NET 4 (or later) desktop programs.
2) Run open-source Win32 desktop programs that were recompiled for RT (there's a list of them; check my sig).
3) Run a handful of programs specifically written for Windows RT tablets, including an x86 emulation layer.
4) Run various non-.NET legacy programs (some x86 through the emulation layer, some Java through IKVM, some Python through an incomplete port, Perl, Ruby, Lua, and a bunch of game engines).
5) Install third-party drivers (such as the open-source program Process Hacker uses).
Windows RT 8.1 breaks the method used to jailbreak RT 8.0. There are people working on getting it back - the OS is a hell of a lot more useful when you can run things like PuTTY and 7-Zip and even WebKit-based web browsers - but until them, most people that hang out around here are either dual-booting 8.0 and 8.1 (if they have enough space) or just sticking with 8.0.
GoodDayToDie said:
@Dane Reynolds: You new here?
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Click to collapse
Nah, I've been here since RT was released, I heard about the jailbreak but was never interested, but the only reason I wasn't interested was I never found any fun stuff to do with the jailbreak.
Dane Reynolds said:
Nah, I've been here since RT was released, I heard about the jailbreak but was never interested, but the only reason I wasn't interested was I never found any fun stuff to do with the jailbreak.
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Click to collapse
no fun stuff? Quakes 1, 2 and 3. Numerous other games, MAME I think.
Python.
.NET
FreeDownloadManager
a torrent client
An html5 browser other than IE (hopefully chromium or Firefox eventually)
PuTTY (would be an absolute must have for me)
Loads of other software many either useful or fun or both.
It really opens up the desktop side of RT
Damn, quake sounds fun and I could use chrome ... I kind of regret getting 8.1
I see the use for a jailbreak but I think it brings the OS backwards. These desktop apps aren't optimized for touch. I think building apps for the new interface is the way to go.
Funny; I get around fine using touch on the desktop (no, my fingers aren't even tiny). Well, except for typing. That sucks, Desktop or Metro. So, I have a Touch Cover, which makes typing a lot nicer. It also has a trackpad, so I only use touch when it's better than using a trackpad.
So, now I have a keyboard and pointing device, in addition to touch, for the device to be useful to me. Care to explain to me again why using apps which are amenable to all three input methods, instead of only one, "brings the OS backwards"? Because the way I see it, taking a multi-input device and excluding all those apps which aren't (over) optimized for a single form of input is a hell of a lot *more* backward...
Dane Reynolds said:
Damn, quake sounds fun and I could use chrome ... I kind of regret getting 8.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love quake and doom, been playing through doom again on my PSP actually (CFW-PRO to effectively jailbreak the PSP, then there are 2 or 3 ports for PSP)
Chrome isnt out for RT yet. GoodDayToDie had a look, but its complicated. Kudos to him for taking a look anyway, but so far 1 guy on his own hasnt managed to do it. Firefox also has its own issues. We may or may not see them eventually though. The jailbreak would be the first step before you could run them though.
As for 8.1. Trig0r has 8.0 recoveries for the surface RT which you could use to downgrade. Hopefully someone will get 8.1 jailbroken soon too, but microsoft patched the exploit that was being used before.
Thanks, I might ask for a recovery as I love gaming, speaking of gaming i know the Surface's hardware isn't high enough to run games but i was wondering if Onlive would be releasing an app for RT.
That would actually be a legitimate use for OnLive... wasn't sure I'd ever see one of those.
Surface (Pro or RT) are fine for light gaming, or for running older games. The RT does actually have NVidia graphics, they're just really underpowered. The Pro has only Intel graphics, but the Intel GMA for the i5 might actually be more powerful than the RT's Tegra 3 (haven't checked). In any case, there are lots of games known to work (if not always at max resolution / quality) on the Pro, and the RT has a number of older games which have been ported over working fine, and some old x86 games that run in the dynamic recompilation engine also working (though so far as I know, none of those ones are 3D).
ap3604 said:
Not sure why you wouldn't want to run updates but so far Windows 8.1 rocks! Makes RT so much better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not on the Asus Vivo RT it doesn't :silly:
8.1 really f#&@'s up the trackpad
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Click to collapse
I own VivoTab RT 3g - no problems with trackpad in 8.1. Currently I have no major problems with 8.1 except for the blinking screen issue that is present in 8.0 too. Even VPN works fine, so I finally can connect to my workplace and read email with Outlook, use RDP or Citrix Receiver.
Hi guys, I just got my surface rt And I was wondering should I keep windows 8.1 or just 8? Is it worth it to jailbreak ? Thanks
There are plenty of threads already on this topic...
Anyhow, IMO Windows RT is nigh-useless without jailbreaking. 8.1 helps a little but it's still pretty bad. On the other hand, the RT hacking scene has lost a lot of steam while waiting for an 8.1 jailbreak to come out, and most of the apps that were ported or created specifically for RT are now obsolete versions, abandoned partially complete, or both. They are still useful, but there's limits.
In any case, it really comes down to your use cases. If you need Outlook, use 8.1. If you want to run DOSBox games, use the jailbreak. If you need the latest and greatest Windows Store apps, use 8.1. If you want to try running the x86 dynamic recompilation layer (one of those incomplete-and-abandoned projects, though it works for some normal Windows apps) use the jailbreak. If you want to run the latest version of IE, use 8.1. If you want to use a mostly-functional WebKit-based browser (i.e. not IE), use the jailbreak.
Or you could try contributing to getting the jailbreak working on 8.1, I guess. That would be the best of both worlds, and would probably jump-start development for RT again.
GoodDayToDie said:
There are plenty of threads already on this topic...
Anyhow, IMO Windows RT is nigh-useless without jailbreaking. 8.1 helps a little but it's still pretty bad. On the other hand, the RT hacking scene has lost a lot of steam while waiting for an 8.1 jailbreak to come out, and most of the apps that were ported or created specifically for RT are now obsolete versions, abandoned partially complete, or both. They are still useful, but there's limits.
In any case, it really comes down to your use cases. If you need Outlook, use 8.1. If you want to run DOSBox games, use the jailbreak. If you need the latest and greatest Windows Store apps, use 8.1. If you want to try running the x86 dynamic recompilation layer (one of those incomplete-and-abandoned projects, though it works for some normal Windows apps) use the jailbreak. If you want to run the latest version of IE, use 8.1. If you want to use a mostly-functional WebKit-based browser (i.e. not IE), use the jailbreak.
Or you could try contributing to getting the jailbreak working on 8.1, I guess. That would be the best of both worlds, and would probably jump-start development for RT again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay thanks ! Can I go back to win8 by resetting my rt in settings ?
If you save the 8.0 recover image, yes. I'm not sure whether it's saved under normal upgrade circumstances; I removed mine to free up space. You can also download the 8.0 image and restore it.
It's also possible, though a little complicated, to install 8.0 and 8.1 at the same time, in a dual-boot configuration. Doing so uses a lot of the tablet's internal storage though.
I was curious about this, if the android smartphones/tabs powered x86 intel processors can be used such that we can install desktop windows or other x86 OSes?
Unlikely as we would need to build drivers for the phone which is rather difficult when the manufacturers like to have things on lockdown most of the time, also it would probably brake some strange contract with Microsoft as most things do. Look at the Surface and Surface RT
Also the UI (Even Metro) would struggle to work on the display adapter
So in short no we can't run Windows on x86 Android phones, yet anyway
Install Android in Windows without Virtual box
I tried this product DuOS which will install Android version Jellybean in Windows 7/8/8.1 platforms. This one is very simple for use comparing with Bluestacks and has good performance for applications. Refer the link for further details and installation check the website for amiduos:good: