Welcome
I hope this is the right forum section for such information. My intention is to warn as many possible customers of Media Markt in Germany (Hessen) as possible.
Yesterday we bought a new phone for my sister - Sony Xperia M2
The phone looks brand new, box was sealed with "Media Markt" tapes, the case had still the protective foil on the back and the screen.
Phone technically is performing fine... but the problem is, it was sold as "New" yet turned out to be used one.
My sister initially thought it's possibly a built in Chrome/Google+ feature that it gives you a "template" account to fiddle with yet I asked around, poked around the internet... nowhere was such thing found (Eventually I did find, that she wasn't the only person who bought a used phone, marked as new with Gmail account already present and such)
The price of the phone was to be 189 Euro... on the label... at the register it was already 199 Euro... that was weird but we thought just a label error.
On next day my sister is bringing the phone to me to check it out and teach her how to use some things... and I notice that when I go to Chrome browser... it says that someone with initials "M.P." (Well it's full name there but I will just use initials here since I, as opposed to Media Markt respect other people) with even messages still not read and such, with 2 followers, the G+ account has been operational for some time already.
In that G+ account I am able to see both Gmail and Hotmail e-mails of the previous user together with phone number (which I checked already, it's a German T-Com number).
Still... having just found that account logged in Chrome... I thought... perhaps it's a glitch? But how would it be? Not just IP but also cookies would have to be there from someone else, this didn't make any sense. So I checked more, I see that Facebook on this phone also was accessed, with the same e-mail as in G+ (password wasn't kept this time though and session was logged out).
But what made me 100% that the phone was used was when I went into photo album... while most images there were all default stock images, there was also a screenshot (which ofc is stored in other folder than images, hence why I'm assuming the person responsible for this crime was sloppy enough not to delete it)
The file has a timestamp of October 21 and shows the lock screen with 82% battery, no sim coverage (or no sim at all, not sure about that icon), vibration profile, wifi connected and notifications I think from cloud app, some mail app perhaps Gmail.
All in all, this cemented my suspicion that the phone bought in Media Markt yesterday - sold for full retail price as new, even wrapped to be sold as new, was in fact a previously used phone, for around a month if not longer which is by no means worth the money they sold it for.
Tomorrow me and my sister's husband are going to Media Markt to "Go Medieval" on those bastards. We will try to make it as much of a scene as possible as to let know as many possible customers there that Media Markt is engaging in fraudulent behavior by selling used devices as new.
We will demand as much compensation for it as possible and will NOT settle for simply exchanging the phone for another. This is a crime that was committed here and regardless if they "cooperate" or not this doesn't change the fact. If situation was reversed, if anyone would just take something from Media Markt walk out... and then - when caught - simply return it and apologized... would they not notify the police? I doubt. Would they not file in for a crime? I doubt it. These days, people get arrested for feeding homeless people in a park! And yet companies like Media Markt get away with obvious criminal behavior. And no, if they (Manager or whoever up) "knew" it's used or not has nothing to do. IF YOU or ME did not what you did was a crime... would the police/court take pity on you and say - ok, lad, it's fine, you are free to go and you didn't do anything wrong. A crime is a crime. And I am totally disgusted by it
So that's why we are not going to settle for a simple exchange for a new device.
- Assuming that the person who used the phone previously wasn't in on the scam, that person's data, G+ account and Play Store has been all exposed to a random customer who bought that phone as new (Google certainly not refund anyone if my sister started to buy apps only to land in the previous user's account, not knowingly).
- We paid for a "new" device, that was the contract between the customer and retailer. They never delivered the agreed upon goods, they gave us a "used" device. That is a breach of a contract and extortion of money.
- We had to waste time, energy and possibly (if this goes to court, prior to the settlement) our money because of them.
- When we called them tonight they've already told us they don't sell used devices, which as the example shows, was another lie.
In case Media Markt would refuse to compensate us for wasting our nerves, time and openly trying to scam us - and basically stealing our money. We will sue them.
Anyone who had similar situation with Media Markt can now know - You're not alone. This is more widespread than I initially thought, the more I read the more I see situations where retailers sell used things as new, possibly hoping that the customer would be naive and ignorant enough to not realize they have gotten a used - and why if it's stolen?! - device.
You're also free to join us and we can sue them together, more the merrier.
As proof I have all the purchase documents, the screens (some of them I include in attachments) and also some other things, they can try to deny it but that's for the court to settle.
In conclusion this is a warning to check twice or better yet - avoid as much as possible such criminal companies like "Media Markt".
Any update on your story? I`d like to hear how it went.
Das ist wirklich ne zumutung... naja, nichts anderes zu erwarten von MediaMarkt...
Here's how it went.
Next day we went to that Media Markt right when it opened. IF you're interested which one was it exactly, here is the address:
Rudolf-Walther-Straße 6, 63584 Gründau-Lieblos, Germany
At the info counter we've explained that we were sold a used phone as a new one... the woman there looked as if she's offended we even suggested it was used, but my brother-in-law elaborated that we've got the proof of it and we'd like to talk with the manager of the shop - Of course, the manager is "on vacation" -_-'. We were directed to the aisle with phones.
There we've asked another staffer, loudly letting everyone who was considering a purchase there, that they better be careful, because this shop sells used devices as new. The staffer said ofc it will be dealt with, but again, not his business, we were directed to the service. ::
Already a bit frustrated by all this running around, we've explained the situation to the service staff. My brother-in-law immediately turned on voice recorder in his Galaxy phone and put it on the counter to make sure this whole thing would be on the record. Sadly, the service staffer had NO NAME TAG! None of the service staff had... how convenient?
First the service guy tried to show as much disbelief and deny that it's even possible to buy used phones from them... then when we've showed him all the proof and talked him through it he said that "Oh, it must've been a mistake! Clearly we must've had such phone delivered to us from the supplier" (doubtful since the person's profile was a person living nearby). Next we kept drilling the guy who was like he's having a lot of fun talking about it - quite annoying attitude if you ask me. He obviously had limited knowledge about phones too.
When asked about why do they sell things with previous users data? - He said it was a mistake and he's just as surprised.
When asked how can we be sure, that now, when we give the phone away, they won't sell it (with my sister's leftover data) to another customer? - He said it's gonna be cleared up and returned, thinking we'd take his word for it.
When we asked him why was the price 199 when we purchased, yet on the shelf the price even now is still shown as 189? - Oh must've been the previous week price tag, someone forgot to take it off.
In the meantime of the discussion we have called my sister to confirm the color and if she's going to sue them or not. She, being a very peaceful person decided she'll settle for their "compensation".
The compensation was a miniscule one to say the least. This is what we've achieved after my sister decided not to sue them:
- Without any apology they agreed to replace the phone (we spent 30 minutes waiting for them to find another like it)
- There were no more phones of that color, so they could give us only purple one (my sister was happy, my brother in law said it looks like crap)
- Because of the lack of color, they have "generously" agreed to give us a crappy black xPeria M2 phone case for 1 cent
- They have returned us the 10 Euro they've asked more vs the shelf price tag
- Not trusting them to do the job I have wiped everything from that bogus phone before I gave it back to them
I disagree with my sister's decision but it was her to make so I can't force her. We are waiting till we get more free time so we can contact the previous owner, she also deserves to know what happened with her data and previously owned phone.
We have decided not to buy stuff from MediaMarkt again after this. My sister said that she's pretty worried now, she had no idea - being just a casual user - that such things happen and now she "understands" why there was so many malfunctions in the past when she was buying laptops from there and things tended to break inside like wifi card and sound card etc.
Here is additional read I found after we came home, turns out this is more widespread than I thought
(given that I've got a fresh account have to put the link in txt file attached to this reply)
I suggest you direct this towards the Metro Holding Group. http://www.metrogroup.de
It's the company that owns the entire Media Markt chain. This seems like a complaint to take a bit higher up if the manager won't speak to you.
I do have to mention, in all the times I've been to Media Markt, the boxes with the Media Markt tape on it were the ones that were previously returned.
New ones had factory seals on it. (And usually a 'If seal is broken, do not buy/sell device" over the rim.) Were those still present on the box when you bought it?
I've always bought about half of devices and electronics at MediaMarkt (The other half at Saturn or Conrad. I remember when Conrad was still just a small store in Boekelo!), in Nordhorn, and Dorsten. I've never experienced what you're describing, as those devices have always had a sticker on it marking them as used.
But I'm not doubting that it happened. Media Markt Netherlands has a tendency to do this as well. And they charge us 100-300 euro more for the same devices, too!
ShadowLea said:
I suggest you direct this towards the Metro Holding Group. http://www.metrogroup.de
It's the company that owns the entire Media Markt chain. This seems like a complaint to take a bit higher up if the manager won't speak to you.
I do have to mention, in all the times I've been to Media Markt, the boxes with the Media Markt tape on it were the ones that were previously returned.
New ones had factory seals on it. (And usually a 'If seal is broken, do not buy/sell device" over the rim.) Were those still present on the box when you bought it?
I've always bought about half of devices and electronics at MediaMarkt (The other half at Saturn or Conrad. I remember when Conrad was still just a small store in Boekelo!), in Nordhorn, and Dorsten. I've never experienced what you're describing, as those devices have always had a sticker on it marking them as used.
But I'm not doubting that it happened. Media Markt Netherlands has a tendency to do this as well. And they charge us 100-300 euro more for the same devices, too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the suggestion, but like I said, we've decided to give it a rest and just avoid the shop altogether, it's not like there's no competition that can do better. Hell even on eBay/Amazon I can get a brand new for same price and used? Would never go for the MediaMarkt price which makes it not useful to us anymore.
As for the packaging, it wasn't market as used, it was together with other boxes (some with MediaMarkt stripes over them, some not, it was as if up to the customer to pick up with no indication of devices being used) and all of them had given same price 189 and the one my bro-in-law bought turned out to be counted for 199 which doesn't seem like it was all supposed to be "sold as used" unless it's MediaMarkt's policy to sell used at higher price than brand new not to mention they've denied and looked all surprised, not a moment they said "We sell used goods this way".
The broken seal thing. I disagree that it's an indication that I shouldn't be buying it - First of all it was my brother-in-law, who just got back from work, asked for a NEW device and was willing to pay all the money needed to buy it for his wife, he wasn't "hunting for a bargain" and he was not notified and had the benefit of not even caring about any policy the shop has, he was buying a new device, hell he even asked for black one and then the woman servicing him there told him they don't have them so he can only take the white one, which could be taken as he was railroaded into buying crap by the employee of the shop, is that how it should be? I don't think so.
Other than that, there are plenty of shops that OPEN the packages when they get them delivered from suppliers to "test" if the goods are working and then reseal it after verifying things work. So why is it all of a sudden the customer's duty to make sure which shop does what? You go to a shop, wanting to buy new device, you should get one. Also, I never seen a "returned, second hands merchandise" corner in MediaMarkt, they don't seem very up front about it at all.
Furthermore, to entertain the "MediaMarkt seal" notion. Are you honestly suggesting that MediaMarkt is totally not culpable for selling used goods with previous user's private data, passwords, e-mail account, G+, Apple store, Google Play, MS Store and so on? Is simply "putting a MediaMarkt wrap" on it means that those goods can be sold with such blatant breach of privacy of previous customer?
As for you being happy with MediaMarkt that's irrelevant, as analogy I also never had problems with racism it doesn't mean that racism isn't a thing. I've used their franchise across 3 different countries and had small issues now and then, but this is unacceptable.
To contrast this say, with "Expert Klein" which I had wonderful experience with. Here's the Expert Klein story to show how different that one is from MediaMarkt:
I went to buy a computer monitor (LG) and they had the last one on display, but I really wanted to get that last one, it was already on discount (by 20 Euro from org price) and when talking with the staffer who was very helpful and spoke good English (In MediaMarkt we had to do everything in German) he said he can get the price lower (he seemed genuinely sympathetic that I got unlucky to find myself buying last one of that model), called the manager, while I checked the monitor if it's in good condition (was almost perfect 'cept a bit of dust on it which the employee cleaned before packing it for me). In the end I got over 70 Euro discount for a computer screen worth a bit more than 150 Euro. That's almost half the price lower.
Now back to MediaMarkt... there he was sold a used device 10Euro dearer than a brand new. It's unacceptable.
Related
All,
have to say that o2 UK have managed to plumb the depths of lousy service and total indifference to customers requirements. They have increased accessory prices for XDaII as well as reducing the contents. They are managed by a centrally run policy which does not admit to deals being done in other stores and a refusal to honour previously agreed prices.
SHODDY SHODDY SHODDY!!! is the best way to describe them, if you are a customer I would urge you to leave them and if your not I certainly wouldn't join!!!
Dont buy any product from their stores as your likely to get it cheaper, quicker and less hassle from the web (uplands mobile) or other online provider.
Such a shame that a company which brought us a great device can't live up to its customers legitimate expectations!! If you have any more comments please post on this thread.
Thanks
Pete
I can say that was also the case for me at stockport branch, Asking about XDA 2 accessories to be told information like - "yeah we dont know about that" or "no there isnt such thing available for the xda2" !!! what!! when i know there is something available for it and get told there is no such thing, lets just say i dont goto the o2 shop anymore. (was about car kits)
Cheers
shody!
Well sad to say..............
I agree, the service supplied by o2 is crap.
I have been working overseas, my biggest bill was £150, my normal bill was around £12 - £35, I'm away for 7 months, I return home and recieve a bill for £540, when I question it, they say, well pay it and then we will sort it out. I say no,lets sort it now. The answer I get is the computer says its correct although we have major problems with our new system sending out or not sending out correct bills, just pay it and we will return it if youre found tobe right, .....I think not!
So yes,changing companies going to Vodafone, dear but seems tobe more on the ball.
O2 problems seem to be becoming more common lately.
I am on orange now simply because I got fed up of the high tarrif I was put on and I had too much trouble trying to change it. The website fails to complete an order as I always get "We are sorry.... Please call xxx" halfway through entering my address details to start a new contract.
Phoning O2 is even worse, after being transferred to different departments so much I ended up doing a circle I went to an O2 shop. They say they cant do xxx instore so give me one of their phones to call and dial a number. Person on phone says theyll try and do xxx but better going in a shop "cuz they'll definitely be able to do it instore" IM IN AN O2 SHOP MAKING THE CALL!
There is someone else I know who is on O2 Online and they simply arent reading his e-mails correctly and giving dumbed down irrelevant responses. Phoning up to sort out problems is too expensive when in certain situations its O2's fault theres a problem.
Ash
O2 are are the biggest pile of **** MAN
Anyone know of a place where O2 complaints will be taken seriously or can be at least accumulated until a point where the number is enough for O2 to take notice..online petition or something?
The ISP Pipex used to leave many customers with no option but to put up with poor service or switch providers, but a website by angry customers called 'pipexwoe' was set up to collect people's bad (or good) experiences and present them in a collected form. Since then the ISP made significant improvements which may have been in part due to the awareness raised by the website so much so there was talk of changing it to 'pipexwow'.
Something like this needs to be done for O2, they cant simply go on with poorly trained sales staff, a buggy website, buggy billing system and incompetent telephone and e-mail based customer service.
I'm still stuck with O2 just for insurance on the physical XDA 2, but that took about 10 failed website order attempts (yes I now have 6 new O2 e-mail addresses though :roll: !), 50 minutes of phone calls, an hour on top on hold and 2 trips to an O2 shop. Being on hold was ok but every 7 minutes they cut you off and tell you to ring again - i.e. throw you right at the back of the queue again! I got an alternative phone number from the O2 shop without the cut off and got through in 10 minutes... silly!
Ash
On a general basis, I don't know of anywhere you can air your grievances.
But if you (as an account holder) have a serious complaint that you are getting no joy with via Normal Customer Services then they do have a HLC (High Level Complaints) team based in Leeds.
Whilst I have a phone number for them (and I'm not gonna post it here for obvious reasons), you can insist on your complaint being referred to them. They usually deal with complaints via OFCOM, but they are there to deal with referrals.
Having used them twice, I've found them very good. They sorted out my account problems, and compensated me accordingly. This was after normal CS said they couldn't do any more !
HTH
Mark
Agreed. You never get anywhere with O2 unless you are on Friends and Family! :wink:
O2 - the other side
I think caveat emptor applies.
I tried to buy my XDAII last Xmas a voucher to pruchase it for £150, but O2 did not seem able to honour it. I took it to Car phone warehouse who honoured the voucher.
I sent a respectful letter to O2 , and they sent me a £50 M&S voucher.
Mr.G
All
I agree with the respondent who has suggested a website to co-ordinate and publish and publicly punish o2 for their lousy service. I dont know how to go about it but I'd be more than willing to help if anyone knows how to set it up.
Further, aren't you guys amazed that the number of companies with hi level complaints departments these days? That alone says more about the standard of service delivery that anything else possibly can.
These are entire departments set up to protect the CEO etc from the legitimate complaints of customers and to appear to the regulator as customer focused.
If that were true, they would surely spend less on complaint resolution and more on frontline service delivery. If it were true, then the very mechanisms and processes which have given rise to their existence would work effectively on our behalf.
or am I just being silly!
Send letters of complaint to;
Mr McGlade
260 Bath Road
Slough
Berkshire
SL1 4DX
This is the CEO of o2 UK, then you'll get a response from the hi level complaints team......wonderful!!
Please keep this thread active and lets see if we cant get them to change their approach to customers!!
peterbutler19 said:
Send letters of complaint to;
Mr McGlade
260 Bath Road
Slough
Berkshire
SL1 4DX
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't bother, he leaves in a month or so.
Try the Customer Services Director...
I've had enough of 02 recently, they've messed my billing around to the point where even though i've sucessfully paid everything in full by Direct Debit, I still get randomly disconnected and then I have to spend 50p a minute calling them to get it sorted out.
I've got the same contract as i'm on now with Orange, so i'm unlocking my xda2 and moving over.
I left O2 last week too, My bills were approaching £70 a month and i wasnt using any more minutes than i usually do, they seem to be ripping me off for data access, when i phoned them, they couldnt even find any data access on my bill and i just couldnt get a straight answer out of them as to why it was so high,
Plus my 12 month contract was up so i phoned them to see if i could get a free motorola razr out of them as i would have been happy staying with them really but when i asked they just said i would be better canceling my contract and getting a phone from a 3rd party supplier as i would get a better deal, so i did, but not with O2 this time !!!,
When i was about to leave orange many years ago, they bent over backwards offering me free phones and discounts if i stayed with them, not with O2, they just said i was better off leaving and that my contract would terminate in 30 days, they dont seem to care if they loose customers anymore
I cant see me going back to O2 anytime soon now
The thing that swayed me to 02 was the text bundles that they offered at a time when orange weren't offering, which is mainly what I use my phone for. Now, I can get exactly the same contract with orange, and without all the 02 hangups it's time I went back.
If I buy a NEW phone on ebay (example HTC Touch Pro or Blackberry Storm), and it is defective, could I go to a Verizon store and return or exchange it without a receipt (assuming I still have the box).
Does anyone know if this is possible?
Hi. Keep in mind I'm sure they track serial #'s / ESN's & such so even if they are nice enough to exchange it (which I've never had the gonads to try) you run the risk that the phone was reported stolen, is under contact on someone else's account or who knows what, you're standing there with your pants down. Then again I suppose they wouldn't let you activate the phone on your account if those were true.. (Sorry I've been in the GSM world too long where you move your SIM as needed.) Anyway I'd say you're taking some big chances there since they surely link phones with accounts or service it was purchased with. I'd love to hear of anyone who has succeeded in this.. It's not like you're buying a toaster & returning it to Kmart for a merchandise credit or something. lol
Bill
by the phone being on someone else's account, does that mean for example they bought the phone at the 2yr contract price only to turn it around and sell it on ebay for profit?
The ebay buyer did nothing wrong in that case, the ESN was clean and ebay purchased cells are easily activated.
thanks for responding.
Yeah that's what I meant but you are assuming best case scenario.. As I said who knows, the phones could have been stolen from a reseller or dealer (I do computer support for a sprint/nextel dealer & they've had many stolen even by employees who turn around & sell them on ebay. The store definitely figures it out eventually & they get reported as stolen & flagged. Maybe within days or weeks or months.) or who knows. That is one of biggest risks of buying off ebay. You may not know the history. Not trying to scare you just saying remember you'll be the one in the store holding stolen merchandise. Again, you risk the same trying to add the phone to your account so I guess they'll track you down either way. lol
As far as your original question, I wish I could say I knew but I don't. I assume there is virtually 0 chance of a return with refund and only a slight chance of an exchange assuming the phone is not flagged & you have a good story. Maybe someone else could chime in who has tried it. Again we are talking expensive phones normally bought with a contact linked to an account so easily traceable so don't be surprised if they scan it in & call you by the name of the guy who sold it to you. lol
Bill
It's just amazing that Verizon makes it so hard to upgrade your phone before your contract is up (even if you're willing to pay full price!!). The only way you can really do it is by buying a phone off of ebay and activating it yourself.
Yeah I'd imagine. That is one nice thing about GSM: Just move your SIM, assuming the phone isn't locked to another carrier which is usually pretty easy to get unlocked. I have bought about 50 phones off ebay (That would have been like 2 had I needed to call AT&T every time I wanted to switch! lol) & for the most part I've had pretty good luck with some duds. (Incompatible model missing 850 band, broken or more worn than expected) If you are in a pinch you might not have much choice but just make sure you buy from someone with high & good feedback & you should be OK. Better yet make sure they have a good return policy or even their own warranty. Not sure if the trick will work for you but I've bought 'Pay as you go' phones & put my SIM in when I needed a phone quickly. Maybe verizon has such a thing too but the prepaid phones are usually pretty awful. Of course there is a chance they'd refuse to add it to your account too. Buy yeah I wouldn't chance buying something on ebay hoping you can return to the local store if needed. I'd say buy new & hopefully sealed, not used (especially for expensive phones unless you want to risk it. Of course you can always try selling back on ebay if needed) from a good seller like I mentioned above & you should be fine. Btw the other thing to consider is go to an authorized Verizon dealer (vs a real Verizon store). You might find them much more likely to work with you on selling you a phone without a contact. I know they make big bucks signing up people but if you're willing to pay retail for a phone I'd imagine they won't turn you away especially if you suggest you'll be back when renewal time comes.
Bill
Ok, so believe it or not, I called Verizon and the rep told me that even if you don't have the original receipt, the verizon store uses the proof of purchase barcode to tell when the item was purchased. If your item is defective you can exchange it, and she even said in some cases they'll even let you put the money towards a new phone, although they prefer to have a receipt.
I'm shocked as I thought they would have a very strict return policy.
Also, any cell purchased in the last month is returnable until Jan 15, which means blackberry storms and htc touch pros and omnias bought on ebay can simply be returned to a verizon store if they are defective!
Wow! Did you get that in writing? lol Guess they have a very lenient return policy. Sounds like they do track them big time but instead of holding it against you they actually HELP you with the info. Geesh, if that really works I'd say they have some killer customer support policies! Makes me want to break a phone to try it & see. Then again I'm on ATT & they'd prolly laugh as they escorted me out the store. :|
Good luck with that, I'd love to hear follow up if you end up needing to try it but then again I'm sure you'd rather NOT have to try. Anyone else ever actually do this with any carrier?
If you are considering a pre-order, I would read this first: http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/1...e-return-policy-are-arousing-suspicion-anger/
I am a web systems admin, and deal with security from an Operations standpoint. With that in mind, I have been watching this over and I am VERY wary of this company. Imo, I would avoid the pre-order and wait until release.
A few things are red flags to me:
- They mentioned that the FCC request is well hidden. Why would they do that? Why the mystery?
- There are ZERO videos of this thing, other than the original prototype from months ago.
- The pics we've seen seem to be photoshopped. Granted, other companies do this but where are the real pics?
- Why hasn't a newer prototype been given to Engadget yet, for review? Again, what are they hiding?
- I have heard that, with the initial pre-order screen, there was no SSL and your SSN was required. Why in the WORLD would they need my SSN?
- $50 shipping. Huh????
- This is not Apple or MS, this is a start-up company. There's no history here.
- I heard that your credit card is being charged, with the pre-order. That is a major red flag. A legit company would put a hold on your CC, but not actually charge you until it is shipped. A recent example of this is what happened with the Archos 101 pre-orders from J&R and Tigerdirect.
I'm not going to go as far as to say that this is a scam, but it sounds very suspicious to me. Again, my 2 cents on the matter. It's a shame because I was considering this device, myself.
I agree completely! I too was considering this device as a preorder option... but I think I can wait now.... I kinda feel like they are just trying to raise the money necessary to START full production.... which is a big NO NO in my book!
--GoJimi
______________________
VEGAn-TAB Developer
Roebeet,
Did you see the Liliputing article from about a hour ago:
http://liliputing.com/2010/12/notion-ink-adam-launch-runs-into-some-roadbumps.html
Well said Roe. I think everyone was considering pre-ordering this thing, but I was expecting a couple videos and plenty of pictures. We got none of that. Therefore, no dice. The mickey mouse ordering system w/ tons of problems being reported and so many questions left unanswered made it easy for me to decide not to preorder one. Anyone who preorders one of these is naive and dumb if you ask me.
roebeet said:
If you are considering a pre-order, I would read this first: http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/1...e-return-policy-are-arousing-suspicion-anger/
I am a web systems admin, and deal with security from an Operations standpoint. With that in mind, I have been watching this over and I am VERY wary of this company. Imo, I would avoid the pre-order and wait until release.
A few things are red flags to me:
- They mentioned that the FCC request is well hidden. Why would they do that? Why the mystery?
- There are ZERO videos of this thing, other than the original prototype from months ago.
- The pics we've seen seem to be photoshopped. Granted, other companies do this but where are the real pics?
- Why hasn't a newer prototype been given to Engadget yet, for review? Again, what are they hiding?
- I have heard that, with the initial pre-order screen, there was no SSL and your SSN was required. Why in the WORLD would they need my SSN?
- $50 shipping. Huh????
- This is not Apple or MS, this is a start-up company. There's no history here.
- I heard that your credit card is being charged, with the pre-order. That is a major red flag. A legit company would put a hold on your CC, but not actually charge you until it is shipped. A recent example of this is what happened with the Archos 101 pre-orders from J&R and Tigerdirect.
I'm not going to go as far as to say that this is a scam, but it sounds very suspicious to me. Again, my 2 cents on the matter. It's a shame because I was considering this device, myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the BIGGEST warning to me, and I pointed it out in another thread as soon as I saw that. To me, this means that they have no money left, and need the pre-order payments right now to fund manufacturing and the company...
Butch1326 said:
Roebeet,
Did you see the Liliputing article from about a hour ago:
http://liliputing.com/2010/12/notion-ink-adam-launch-runs-into-some-roadbumps.html
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I'm reading up on their replies, right now - a lot of it sounds like bull, to me. Yes, it's also possible that this is growing pains for a start-up, but the bottom line is that I just don't trust this enough to give them my money, yet.
- The shipping rates. They could have raised the price $25, and then dropped the shipping to $25. My feeling on this is that shipping is not refundable - that means that if you return the item they keep the shipping and make some money off you. This is same thing that eBay sellers do, and it's not a good way for me to trust them. The device is only a few pounds, it's not a heavy device and $50 is excessive.
- No Mastercard payments. They had more than 6 months to fix this, it's Internet commerce 101, as well as SSL. Not having these scares the carp out of me, as a consumer. I have no faith that my credit card info is safe with them, and that is not a good thing.
- No pics of the device. That takes about 10 minutes to fix. Take pics, upload to blog, done. Same with a video -- why the delay? Again, very suspicious here.
The "mystery" factor works for a company like Apple, as they are an established company who has a history. This company is a start-up - as far as we know, this device doesn't exist and the CEO is about to take all your money and disappear.
Here's NI's reply:
http://notionink.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/introspection/
I'm with you. I was on board to pick one up, in addition to my Gtab. I had my CC out and even stayed up waiting for that first 3am preorder. Then details started leaking out and I came to my senses. You are assuming a company will come through because we're used to dealing with large corporations. These assumptions are wrong in this case since this is an uproven company, with unproven people, in another country (legality), with a product that they refuse to show.
My guess is that this is a company run by young enthusiastic engineers getting railroaded hard by the people financing them. However, I'm not going to put my money out their first. The last straw was their sneaky method of jacking the price of the top version, the one I wanted, by 20%. First they increased the base price $50 and then changed free shipping to $50, ending up with a $500 to $600 price.
I hear you Roebeet. I was one of the so called family and got the link and it was a disaster from the onset. Thank God I couldn't get to the purchase page because the server kept crashing and the 12pm PST thing.
What saved me from ordering the adam is that I had to go to work. I was already running late. When I got off work it said they were sold out. WTF! How can something that is not in production be sold out?? If it does exist, I'll wait until it is in a real store.
I am now confident it is still vaporware. I feel for those that bought it without actually seeing a demo video or real pictures. I just hope they didn't get scammed.
Yeah, liliputing echoed my thoughts. I really don't think NotionInk is being deceitful. For those that follow the blog you know they genuinely care about making a great device and I have little doubt Adam exist.
In my mind there is no question the device will be great. The real problem isn't about developing a great device, its about introducing, manufacturing, distributing and supporting your first ever product. That in itself is a huge undertaking if you just planned to sell to one region let alone the world.
I wish them the best of luck and hope this thing does take off. I kind of just wish for their sake they would have started off a little less ambitious.
[My guess is some models 'sold out' because pre-sales numbers where tied to their initial parts inventory and the number of tablets they can produce in a month. That imo is a good thing.]
Too much money to commit for a product with nothing but vapor to show so far. The company appears to be very naive or this is a sham. Hope for the former, none the less.
I am happy with the G and the way I use the device, the viewing angles are fine and the device has 8gb more space and not sourced from India with a VERY dubious January ship date. Gtablet is $150 more for the good display
Some stuff going on does not add up, so if naive or something else, neither is good.
This launch could make the Gtablet seem iPad-like, in comparison
I was about to order mine last night but I couldn't pull the trigger. Too many red flags. The $50 shipping and asking for SSN was what finally made me come to my senses. If this tablet is really awesome why they didn't send demos to any tech blogs ?
For now I'm very happy with my G-Tablet. Thank you roebeet for your hard work.
You know, I kind of think that they might actually have a product and they might have had enough mfged already for the pre-order guys, but ran out of money doing those and hence need to charge new orders immediately.
I thought that they had pictures of an actual unit, that red one in one of the Nov/maybe early Dec blog posts? Still kind of disconcerting that they have no videos and no more better pix of the thing...
Well, since I decided to skip this one anyways since I kept the gTab, I can afford to wait and see what happens, hope that they ship something close to what they claim, and then see if they survive to do a Tegra 3 tablet, which IF they do better in pricing and get me a 7" form factor, I MIGHT spring for...
Maybe just wishful thinking but I guess we'll see when they start shipping, after all remember open pandora? I think they finally started shipping more than prototype versions earlier this year, when they were SUPPOSED to have started shipping over 2y ago! OP is kind of a joke now at the price it's listed at, and what it is...
Took my WPDN back to BBB today. They didn't even open the box, just printed out a form for me to sign and handed over the cash and a receipt showing my return.
After that I wandered over the B&N almost next store and took a look at the Nook Color... was SORELY tempted to just buy one, but decided to wait and see a bit. Nice 7" form factor, nice screen, light(!), and fairly speedy for only being a8 @ 800MHz and 2.1! Woman at the counter claims that they're planning OS upgrades and flash support when I asked her about it. Browser still had problems with the many more button on /. then again so did the WPDN & GT. On the gTab it loads them almost as quickly as my nb... still thinking about NC...
As much as I'd like to think they are just being naive and made some mistakes in the SSL / Mastercard / SSN area, I don't believe that's the case. And for one reason only - no photos and no videos of the product since earlier this year. That is very suspicious.
This is not rocket science - all they need to do is upload a few real photos and a quick video of the device in someone's hands, to allay fears. It's been 24 hours now and that has not happened (yet). If they stop being so darn mysterious and show us that there's really a product out there, then I won't be so cautious.
But, I still wouldn't pre-order it if they charge me before shipping. This is like meeting a stranger on the street, giving them $450 on the honor system that they will come back in 2 months to your house to give you your product. At least we have Visa protection but you might still have a deductible.
Not disagreeing with anyone here, but the whole SSN thing was the credit card companies verifying your identity. That has nothing to do with notion ink, i order internationally all the time and whenever you do so the banks require verification a lot of the time. Also, it doesn't ask for your entire SSN, just the last 4 digits.
I ordered one, nervously. We'll see what happens.
LeftysRule22 said:
Not disagreeing with anyone here, but the whole SSN thing was the credit card companies verifying your identity. That has nothing to do with notion ink, i order internationally all the time and whenever you do so the banks require verification a lot of the time. Also, it doesn't ask for your entire SSN, just the last 4 digits.
I ordered one, nervously. We'll see what happens.
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If it was the last four digits, that's not the same thing - agreed. I heard it was the whole thing, but I didn't see this myself.
I actually hope that I'm wrong and that these devices are shipped in January and are just as good as we all hope they are. But them charging you before shipment bugs me - I heard that was true, correct?
roebeet said:
If it was the last four digits, that's not the same thing - agreed. I heard it was the whole thing, but I didn't see this myself.
I actually hope that I'm wrong and that these devices are shipped in January and are just as good as we all hope they are. But them charging you before shipment bugs me - I heard that was true, correct?
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No company should or by law use your SSN to identify you!
This is looking fishery than ever, sadly...
roebeet said:
But them charging you before shipment bugs me - I heard that was true, correct?
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This is what made me most nervous, it's true. I was kinda hoping it wouldn't charge immediately. Dec 18th will hopefully alleviate some concern.
Well, maybe when it eventually comes out, if the firmware is as awesome as Notion Ink says it is, it can be ported over to other devices? I'm sure it would make a pretty awesome Android tablet with their supposed custom interface and apps.
I've been waiting on the Adam for the past year because of its Qi-Pixel display, but the lack of videos/photos and important information kept me from pulling the trigger. For some reason they refuse to release specifics such as whether the damn thing will support the Android market. That's B.S. If you want people to give you $550+ for something, you need to tell them what they're getting in return.
The reason they're not showing pictures on their site probably has to do with US law which would hold them accountable if they shipped a device that didn't match the photo. That may be the same reason why they're not discussing some of the specs. Who the hell knows.
I'm going back to Sears tomorrow to see if I can get the price difference between the $379 I paid and the $349 sale. Hell, if Sears is cool to me I'll probably just pick up a 2nd G-Tab and forget about Notion Ink.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=LPowc1yM0NQ
I would've preordered it if I hadn't bought the G tab which I didn't return due to the awesome 'trio' we have here, working all day & night to make this tab better and better.
I think those Notion Ink guys are facing some problems due to their inexperience and lack of support.
Sent from my VEGAn-TAB-v1.0.0b1 using Tapatalk
Hi all, long time listener first time caller and all that...
I thought it would be a good idea to post up here my customer service experience so others can hopefully learn from my mistakes.
I bought a note 3 sim free from phones4u in the uk, when i first used it i tried to install kox, this failed and on to google... many people had this problem, so i called samsung and they said i need an enterprise licence for it - bull sheet
Then i noticed the proximity sensor ddnt work, again a very common fault.
I went to a store within the 28 day exchange period and told it was too late as they are about to close, as i work away abroad i couldnt take it back i the 28 day period so when i finally got to taking it back, i was told it needed to be sent off. This is not true as the sales of goods act entitles me to a replacement due to the faults existing from new.
After much arguing with customer services, i was told tough. I wet in to a store with all my notes and paperwork in hand, they agreed to replace it.
The new phone works fine, the proximity sensor is perfect and guess what... knox works fine.
Goes to show that even samsung tech suppoort even get it wrong, also, phones 4u also think that the sales of goods act does ot apply to them.
I hope this information is useful to someone.
Phones4U here in the UK are notorious for being Idiots. always have been. They are just sharks, you walk in and they swarm around you like the pretty boy who has never had a job does. And yap in your ear, yet you aska technical question and they look at you like sheeeeeet dude knows stuff!
I bought a phone from them many many years ago and had issues with it they wouldn't swap and argued. In the end I won. -- I vowed I'd never buy from them again.
That being said... I bought my HTC One there (red version) as it was cheaper and Red was exclusive to them, and I purchased my Note 3 there (which worked out a tenner cheaper too!) because Carphone warehouse didn't have any in stock.
radicalisto said:
Phones4U here in the UK are notorious for being Idiots. always have been. They are just sharks, you walk in and they swarm around you like the pretty boy who has never had a job does. And yap in your ear, yet you aska technical question and they look at you like sheeeeeet dude knows stuff!
I bought a phone from them many many years ago and had issues with it they wouldn't swap and argued. In the end I won. -- I vowed I'd never buy from them again.
That being said... I bought my HTC One there (red version) as it was cheaper and Red was exclusive to them, and I purchased my Note 3 there (which worked out a tenner cheaper too!) because Carphone warehouse didn't have any in stock.
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They were the only place that could sell me the phone sin free. Also the only place to have the s view cover in.
To be fair, the manageress had to go in the back to kick off at head office as they didn't want to swap it out.
Just gutted I updated to MJ7. . . Could have done with rooting it but don't want 0x1 just in case it develops another fault.
Only issue I had with MJ7 was an Android OS drain, which was a launchers fault (which I have since removed), tbh my battery is superb! 30 hours or so average.
As for the KNOX issue, I just went ahead and tripped mine. I dare them to even not replace mine if something goes wrong, EU directive etc, plus I'll make such a stink about it they'll have no other option. So fudge them!!! -- (plus I have insurance in worst case scenerio lol but that has an excess charge...)
Sorry to hear Phones4U are still trading.
I ask because after I waiting a week I initiated a chat with them and the box finally showed up last week. I boxed my 6T up and sent it off over the weekend. Looks like the return label generated is ground shipping which is BS since they don’t do the trade ins like Samsung (give you credit contingent on the phone being in the condition you actually described it). Since you are without your personal device that is highly inconvenient. So it won’t get to its destination until Friday this week. Then they say it may take a few days after that for someone to assess it. Now the website has the shipping times at 10 days. That is crazy. Had I known this process would’ve been this long and drawn out I wouldn’t have bothered doing it. Anyone else going thru this madness? Just seems highly inconvenient for a consumer
I sent my phone last week, it's on its way to TX- will arrive Friday. I'll update you after Ingram receives it.
curious how are you sending the phone in ahead of 2 week return policy period being over - have they changed the requirment?
jrmt077 said:
curious how are you sending the phone in ahead of 2 week return policy period being over - have they changed the requirment?
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Cash back has to be done 15 days from purchase. It's mentioned in the FAQ. Voucher is done prior to ordering a 7P. I have backup phones, so someone with 1 device would do cashback.
Hahaha no way. It's a trade in program come on now when are these ever fair to the consumer.... Oh never and this is proof. I had my 8/128 6T in perfect condition appraised by there little trade in program. They were only offering 240 for it and I already I knew it was going to be a hassle with sending it back and inspected so I just laughed really hard at their pathetic offers. I put my phone on offer up and soold it for 400 in just a couple days before the 7 pro came out and I ordered it right away. The best option any of you have if you're looking to make some money out of your current devices then you should sell them yourselves. You will deal with at least headache and hassle.
If you can sell it yourself,do,put an add on marketplace on Facebook,local buy and sell,anything.You won't get anywhere near what it's worth from trade ins,
Me personally I like to try and sell the phone myself but can agree sometimes it can be frustrating dealing with people who like to drive down the price and get the best deal off you,for a quick sale and better prices use shops like CEX in the UK and Ireland, although their prices can be dodgy too at times
se7ensde said:
Hahaha no way. It's a trade in program come on now when are these ever fair to the consumer.... Oh never and this is proof. I had my 8/128 6T in perfect condition appraised by there little trade in program. They were only offering 240 for it and I already I knew it was going to be a hassle with sending it back and inspected so I just laughed really hard at their pathetic offers. I put my phone on offer up and soold it for 400 in just a couple days before the 7 pro came out and I ordered it right away. The best option any of you have if you're looking to make some money out of your current devices then you should sell them yourselves. You will deal with at least headache and hassle.
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The values are quite fair, if not great for other brands. Samsung, Apple, and Moto aren't too bad. For example, an iPhone SE gives 110- about half of what a 6T provides. Some phones give 600+ towards 7 Pro.
I sell things in my personal time, but I don't always the time to physically meet buyers on CL, OU, LG, etc. Online includes fees, that's why I didn't list my phone on eBay/swappa.
Ace42 said:
The values are quite fair, if not great for other brands. Samsung, Apple, and Moto aren't too bad. For example, an iPhone SE gives 110- about half of what a 6T provides. Some phones give 600+ towards 7 Pro.
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There no where near fair. Stop defending them cause you're falling for their trade in scam. Yeah there probably are some phones that will get about 600 for phones that originally cost double that value. But those ones are still getting ripped off badly because you can easily sell your device for a price more to your liking. And if you actually read up on this you would know that no one gets the same offer from OnePlus even if they're devices are in the same conditions they simply offer some people more and some less. I've already seen it happening.
Sold my 6T on Swappa for $440 with a few extra cases. After fees and shipping, cleared about $400. Not saying selling is for everyone but I picked up the 7 pro for only $665 with student discount.
5 page topic on this: https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-7-pro/help/one-plus-trade-program-t3930232
Good idea, trade in for under 70% of what it is worth
Apex i ITR said:
I ask because after I waiting a week I initiated a chat with them and the box finally showed up last week. I boxed my 6T up and sent it off over the weekend. Looks like the return label generated is ground shipping which is BS since they don’t do the trade ins like Samsung (give you credit contingent on the phone being in the condition you actually described it). Since you are without your personal device that is highly inconvenient. So it won’t get to its destination until Friday this week. Then they say it may take a few days after that for someone to assess it. Now the website has the shipping times at 10 days. That is crazy. Had I known this process would’ve been this long and drawn out I wouldn’t have bothered doing it. Anyone else going thru this madness? Just seems highly inconvenient for a consumer
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I had a 6T with 8/256GB.
The trade in was $270. I sold it for $475.
The trade in is a joke.
se7ensde said:
There no where near fair. Stop defending them cause you're falling for their trade in scam. Yeah there probably are some phones that will get about 600 for phones that originally cost double that value. But those ones are still getting ripped off badly because you can easily sell your device for a price more to your liking. And if you actually read up on this you would know that no one gets the same offer from OnePlus even if they're devices are in the same conditions they simply offer some people more and some less. I've already seen it happening.
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Fair has many definitions and you assumed the wrong one. I never said their values were praiseworthy nor equal to sellling. Google gave 250 for an SE, whereas it's only 110 thru OP.
Actually you'd be hard pressed to get 110 for an iPhone SE 32 after all fees (ship, marketplace, and PP)... I'm familiar with Ingram/Phobio, and know that values can fluctuate from start to end. Those that have dealt with Samsung have heard the horror stories for mint phones.
I have no horse in this race, and neither company has done anything for me. I'm simply stating how select trades are okay. Here are confirmed amounts: SE 110, G7 210, Z2 120, v30 190, S7e 140, 8+ 440.
I was an avid SWAPPA user for years. I was selling phones with little issue. Last year I bought a S9+ and sold it a few months after for $650 with no issues. A year later the guy lodges a complaint on swappa but I didnt see it because the email address my account corresponds to on there is an address I check only once and a while. So about 2 weeks had passed from the original complaint being lodged before I responded. Once i did see if I felt terrible but started making phone calls (HE and I were both on T-Mo so I called them immediately to ask why they flagged the phone as stolen even though I had bought it from Samsung directly. The lady i spoke to said that all he had to do was call them and they would lift it. I also called Samsung because my receipt didnt show the IMEI of the phone I purchased and I wanted to get detailed billing showing I legit purchased the phone. Samsung was unable to provide that info even though they verbally confirmed the IMEI was correct (a whole other issue I have). So anyway I responded back on swappa with all this detail and the original buyer wasnt really responding to the site admins and I.
What i didnt know was he lodged a complaint against me on paypal at the same time. Paypal didnt notify me (They claim they called but I had no missed calls from Paypal. I find out about a month after all of this was Paypal account had been charged back for the phone. This guy now has his money back and a perfectly fine Samsung S9+ and I am out the money and no phone. So yeah I USED to sell phones but after this ordeal.....being screwed for a phone I sold a year before......Yeah I'm done with selling phones now......not when the risk is this. I'd rather take the hit on a trade in. I'm still angry about the situation but the guy lives in Michigan and while it may be worth going to there...I dont trust myself on what I might do. I'm taking this as a lesson. **** selling used phones now.
Ace42 said:
I sent my phone last week, it's on its way to TX- will arrive Friday. I'll update you after Ingram receives it.
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Sounds like we sent it at the same time. Delivery time is for today as well. I didn't realize it would take so long and i have international travel on the 12th planned. I can't use my work phone so I may have to have someone mail me the phone from here.
NavySpark said:
Sold my 6T on Swappa for $440 with a few extra cases. After fees and shipping, cleared about $400. Not saying selling is for everyone but I picked up the 7 pro for only $665 with student discount.
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Hope you dont get ****ed over like I did.
I totally spaced on the cash back option. I just went ahead and bought it now...I know it puts the value I would get back out 15 days + whatever time it takes for me to get the handset in my hand but I couldn't take the chance of waiting for them. I'll take the cash back option after a few weeks. Still inconvenient but a bit better.