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Dear all,
Due to the proliferation of new ROM's, the Wizard forum is in need of a bit of housekeeping. The mods cannot do this alone, so we are asking for your help.
1) The four most used kitchens have been stickied for the moment and questions regarding any ROM's you cook based on these kitchens should be posted in the appropriate thread. Please do not start a separate thread. Anichillus Core Professional kitchen is also found in the Development and Hacking forum since it is used for multiple devices and is beyond the scope of many basic users. Users beware. I may de-sticky the kitchens upon further discussions with the mods, but right now the structure will stand as it is.
2) On the same note, I'm asking for kitchen authors to notify me or other mods concerning useless posts in these threads (e.g. Why didn't you include "x" application? or posts that are inflammatory or non-technical in nature). They will promptly be deleted as we shouldn't have to wade through 20 posts of BS to get to relevant tech info.
3) All of the kitchens stickied are based wholly or in part on Bepe's tools and are of the same basic architecture. Therefore no more kitchens will be stickied unless they are truly unique or offer a substantially more comprehensive interface.
4) Also, it's sometimes better for a lot of people to refine one ROM than for a few people to refine a lot of ROM's. I know there are a thousand aspiring cooks out there right now since the kitchens have been released. You may be tempted to release your own ROM to the masses either because you think it's a great ROM or because you want to be known around the board. Resist the temptation. Unless your ROM offers a very innovative user experience (e.g. Touch), it is not likely to get a huge following and might just cause more confusion for the non-developers on this board, you might do better to try to collaborate with some fellow developers in creating a very good ROM.
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to). Some people have repeatedly posted in this forum despite the fact that their posts had nothing to do with Windows Mobile 6 specific issues on the Wizard (i.e "My Herald..." or ("Do you have this software from a Nokia?"). We will issue 3 warnings through PM's but after that you might be up for a temporary ban. This will only happen if you're a repeat offender. Heck we've all posted in the wrong place at one point or another. If possible we may move the post to a more appropriate location but it would save everyone a lot of work and aggravation if the posts are made in the correct forum.
I hope this helps a bit. If you have suggestions for how we can make this place better, please air them here. If you have a complaint with a mod, please PM me first. I don't like public conflict and most of you don't either.
jwzg said:
Dear all,
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to)..
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not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
I agree that a strong hand is needed. For this i suggest that there should be a special part in the forum where to move threads that have no replies for hmm...30 days ...?
I don't know too much stuff about forums but i think that would mean a nasty job for you guys so...just a suggestion. Or better...delete them or move them to an sort of recycle bin.
Regarding switching to a new upgraded forum, i think that would be an immense hard work also and it will leave the community off line for few days. It may be needed to come to that soon but that's not a big problem.
But i agree that allowing people to delete their own posts would be nice. But on the other hand, considering hours i spent here reading, i kinda got used to this look
I will PM you with posts to delete but beware that i may be more strict than you and i don't want to waste your time...so i will filter myself.
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
nothin said:
not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
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You are reading this wrong. I had about four or five posters who after two or three moved threads and a couple of PM's continued to post totally irrelevant posts in the Wizard Mobile 6 thread. I this was aimed at repeat offenders and not at the occasional screwup. By they way, you can modify your post or ask a mod to move it if you like. Not a big deal.
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all, but I'm not trying to be nice either. I just see the same old builds with different package combo's that anyone could make with the kitchen and a little ingenuity. However, folks like Zoki and the-equinoxe have done some fine things with the touch software that are truly innovative and add substance to the user experience. I for one have partially adapted the T-Mobile wing OEM package to the Wizard (yes camera too, but the image is transposed and my-faves doesn't work). That's true ROM cooking and not just throwing a few packages into a cooker and presto.
It is not "us" against them. It's those who have a bit more experience actually doing our best to take this forum up another level instead of settling for ssdd.
shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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I'm working on this...
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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Fixed by admin. Thanks for the heads up.
ANTC said:
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
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I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
mfrazzz said:
I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
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true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
Gulp - I hope I didn't start something we will all regret with my post "Why all these new WM6 ROMs?" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=313781
Let us not forget that apart from a very few idiots this is a great place to be. I have learnt a lot from this forum considering that I do not have a background in computing.
It has even stimulated my interest to the extent that I have assembled my own computer. Didn't save me money and my wife cannot understand it but I have ended up with exactly what I wanted which a store built machine could not have given me.
I hope you understand the analogy.
Let's just make sure that "We don't throw out the baby with the bath water".
No, you didn't start anything scotch whiskey that hadn't already been brewing a bit. I think my modified OP is a little nicer, but still gets the point across.
ANTC said:
true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
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I agree with both you and mfrazzz.
What if someone doesn't want to use the latest version of a ROM, they don't like some changes or whatever, they will need those older threads for reference material. Also I notice lots of people asking questions, only to be referred to older threads. There isn't any use reinventing the wheel so to speak.
I think a good idea would be for developers (or just real supportive people) to make kind of an FAQ for some of these older versions, a "best of" list of questions and answers. It can be posted in the forum, it can be on some website somewhere, or in the XDA FTP, whatever. Not only would it give people a good place to refer to, but it might also eventually lead to a cut-down of basically the same questions.
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
jonflow said:
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
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Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
I don't like this talk
Everybody should have the right to publish his work, no matter what hi did.
The rest will judge his work and he will learn something. Only those who didn't do anything can't understand this.
Old topics should remain, I like to jump back to learn something, for new members old topics is a must.
If you must do something to show us you're administrator rights, do something good, like option to close the thread.
Zoki, no one said members can't publish their work. I just honestly believe more of it should be along the lines of what you did with the touch stuff. I truly admire your work because it was bleeding edge (still may be) and that's developing which is why this board exists. I'm not trying to flatter you here to gain your support either. It's just when people throw your name all over a splash screen it doesn't really make it their work since most all of the ROM's here are cooked using kitchens from other authors with packages from other members and yes, even HTC. If that sounds big-brother-ish, it's not intended that way. Just make sure credit is given to the quite literally hundreds of people who've made this possible. We're already having problems in other forums right now with people asking for donations in return for tech support for ROM's they've cooked with other's tools. That is one of the many issues we're trying to be proactive about here.
Regarding closing threads, I'm not an administrator, and they have chosen not to give OP's the rights to close their threads. If you want your thread closed, please PM me and I have the rights close it quickly. If you want someone else's thread closed, well, you can request it, but it may or may not happen.
BTW, the old threads were not deleted, and I strongly believe they shouldn't be. Admin simply made a mistake in a setting, and all of the old threads are visible as per our request.
As a mod, I'm just trying to do my best to make sure that we have an orderly forum and we are developing, which is the forum's purpose.
hey jwzg we aren't really calling you a bad person, we know you're looking out for us I agree though, the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens. It would be better for people to just explain what was in a new ROM scheme they came up with, and it would encourage more people to start learning how to make their own ROMs, therefore making them more intellectual in this particular field, which is a good thing. knowledge is power. But hey its just my opinion!
jwzg said:
Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
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just to let you know that the REAL develepor regrets now releasing the rom kitchen tools....
jonflow said:
the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens.
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sorry i am noone for you all, my "senior" member status sounds like joke but...
everything is the same imo now, also, theres no real help lately; only people that can have answers are like "how to flash my phoooone", "did i brickeeeeed?" etc.
there's no real customisation of "custom" builds.
seems like checking some oempacks' ticks is making these current OSes special...
i can't get an answer for my problems, despite i tend to help people someOM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322228
i spent MONTH to make this, and what?
nobody wants to help.
ok, clean this forum up, you may remove my babbling now....
everything i know bout wizard customisation is from that site...but now, in "touch" soft times, there's nothing that makes wizard better, just nothing.
it became playground for kids or what...
sorry for funny english, i cant do better...
i want to say thank you to:
Faria,
Anichillus,
mattk_r
jwzg
double_ofour
zoki
and many many more people that made me ..learning, not copying.
allright, time to watch another touch skin post...
Myself i've been reading most of the time, only lately did i start posting to test some bugs in builds. The issue at hand is a double edged sword. Yes i solved many problems wading through old posts. But i also solved a lot of issues just reading an entire thread. I will never be able to create a kitchen but it sure is nice knowing that when i want to i can build a rom entirely to my liking. But indeed to many Build threads these day are the same. And most of the issues handled, but then spread across multiple build threads, are mostly about the same problems. Mainly issues with specific base roms and aplication incompatibilities. I think a lot of the solving of these issues is slowed down because of the spread through topics. Maybe setting up a rule that Roms that get posted and aren't updated or have any fixes posted should not be taken seriously and can be deleted. This way less Rom versions circulate the thread and only higher quality builds by Chefs are available. Also a good rule might be to have the cooks post more info about the sources and tools used for their builds, like Kitchen used, Base used, Patches used oem packages used. So new users more easily understand that no Rom has no history. It also takes away the polish of parading with your ego. Maybe even changing the main wizard topics into
1. Kitchen Development
2. How To & Troubleshooting
3. Rom Builds testing
4. Custom Made Software & tweaks
5. Hardware and Accesoires
6. To be Deleted (either move topics or delete them when re/placed into new main topics)
Then indeed phase out unneeded old posts if the information is passed into new threads that accordingly aknowledge the sources.
What i'm trying to say is, to change the perception a bit more that this is not a Technical support site and more of a doing site.
I think the main topics can set an expectation and the current ones don't give the impression that flashing is not kids biznz.
Also it looks like there are to many uploads of the same home screens, software etc. (i think even i am quilty of that).
I'm all for a big clean up but with the focus on retaining the history and origin as much as possible even if it means loosing a few classic threads.
You as admin can set the tone and expectation and a clear message should be sent to junior cooks that collaboration is what drives this site.
ive been looking over the forums for months now. i see people ask questions. and instead of given anwsers they are slammed because they should of researched first. Why? isnt it easier to just anwser a question than wasting a post saying you should of read first? if most people are like me (and i assume they are) they dont have time to search through thousands of posts just to find a possible anwser to their questions. the rom threads are getting too long 250+ posts average. and very often going on and off topic. so i guess what i am proposing is sub forums. let "Cooks" apply for a sub forum. not juyst any cook. but if they are making an honest to goodness contribution to the community i think it would help find information a lot easier. yes i know the forums have a search feature. but this it can still be difficult to sift throught the information.
so something like
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > JossKoss
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > Arnyl
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > MedKid
any roms a cook makes could have its own thread. and anything in the subforum would pertain to that particular person. now im not saying give one to just any person that half cooks a rom. it could even be based on a threashhold if the rom gets so many posts .. 200. or by votes. or just by the cooks reputation. that way people can post new threads inside the subforums without it getting moved into the thread with thousands of posts.
i dont make the decisions. im just posting something i think would help sort information and make it easier to find. that way if i have a problem with x rom. instead of reading through one thread there is a thread for each problem. then it is easy to see if that problem im having is an issue with other people. and if its been resolved. give the cook mod status of the particular sub forum and they can moderate it themselfs. so if you agree vote Agree on the poll if you dont vote Disagree on the poll.
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
sakshamkatyal said:
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
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Hey bro you wanna drink some natty ice, play some game cube?
on topic... I think it sounds like a pretty solid idea, would help with a lot of the organizational problems.
Cooks come and go! It sure wont make sense to have a sub-forum for them! If you follow xda for a while, you will understand what I am talking about.
What a load of faffing about......
Mods don't get paid and would make more work for them as more to cover.
For all the info people get from XDA is free, so maybe a bit of searching isn't that bad if you want something bad enough you will find it.
Peace.
sakshamkatyal said:
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
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well first off if you are cooking roms to release to the public , then yes you should beable to anwser most questions that arise.
and second as i stated dont just give anyone a subforum only the cooks that truly contribute. only the serious cooks that have proven themselfs.
but the kitcens have truly gotten too easy for just anyone to make their own rom. and this would also help identify who the trusted / established cooks that know what they are doing are.
stylez said:
What a load of faffing about......
Mods don't get paid and would make more work for them as more to cover.
For all the info people get from XDA is free, so maybe a bit of searching isn't that bad if you want something bad enough you will find it.
Peace.
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i also addressed this in my original post
GTZ said:
give the cook mod status of the particular sub forum and they can moderate it themselfs
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GTZ said:
i also addressed this in my original post
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Yes i saw that but Mods still will have to have some control so therefore more work, as not all chefs are online and able to keep threads clean.
To be honest i like it the way it is.
just my 2p's worth.
There has been numerous threads like this generally for the software section to be split... I think XDA is set up the way it is and lets just be happy with the community and wealth of information we have..........
ai6908 said:
Cooks come and go! It sure wont make sense to have a sub-forum for them! If you follow xda for a while, you will understand what I am talking about.
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well what i was saying is give it to the ones that have earned it.
GTZ said:
now im not saying give one to just any person that half cooks a rom. it could even be based on a threashhold if the rom gets so many posts .. 200. or by votes. or just by the cooks reputation.
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if its a well known cook and they have been around for a while i think they have kinda earned it. what im saying would be a little extra work for anyone that would be willing to create the sub forums. it would ultimatly keep roms neater.
you could then have a thread for each rom. build . why should someone read through problems of 21198 then they have been fixed in 21500. there are lots of advantages to adopting this procedure. and very few drawbacks. (yes there are some) . if nothing else lets get some of the cooks opinions.
but i thank each of you for your feedback.
stylez said:
I think XDA is set up the way it is and lets just be happy with the community and wealth of information we have..........
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well i think if we wernt happy with the way it is we wouldnt be here. that doesnt mean there arent things that need improvement this place is constantly growing and its not uncommon for these forums to outgrow the old ways of doing things.
but again i respect your points of view also
It would make more sense for cooks to use a unified thread titling scheme.
For example, the tilt keyboard fix still has a title of [new] or something similar on it when it is years old.
Perhaps a loose standard should be developed so it is easier to find. Note: I spelled out the date so it is obvious to europeans and americans who list them differently. I hate early month dates!!! -----> 4-5-2009 April or May?
[October 15, 2009] - Anryl - WM6.5 25000 - v1
disagree
this is my vote
What are there no mods on duty today ?
Please, not another thread by another noob/ lazy user ? slamming the seniors for telling them to search. Here are the posting rules handed down by our Queen Flar.
1. Search before posting.........this isn't a suggestion or a senior being a jerk or an " unhelpful " post..... IT IS A RULE
2. Please be polite and respect your fellow users.......... the next time a noob gives me a ration of crap about a " wasted post " and " if I can't be helpful then mind my own business " when I instruct him as to the search function and ,as I ALWAYS do, start him in the right direction, I am going to hunt him down and remove his texting thumbs.
4. Post only using a clear subject and message. ........... I swear , if you could type in " help me pleeeeeease " into the search function, it would return over a thousand separate threads . It is this, and the thousands of I tried to search , but it is so haaaaaaard threads, that make searching so hard. Not the lack of information.
I liked it better back in the " old days " when asking a redundant or stupid question or if you were a noob that dared lash out after getting told to search, you would get drawn, quartered, tarred ,feathered and then set on fire. I lurked on this site from Nov until April when I finally joined, because I was terrified to ask a question. And I am fifty times more knowledgeable because of it . If I needed a question answered, I read and search, and search and read and found my answer. Because ALL the answers are here.
The models may change but the questions are all here. It seems now all you have to do is lash out about how unhelpful this place is, or how hard it is to search or how mean all the seniors are for " wasting my time telling me to search, when in the same time they could have just answered my damn question.", and before you know it , you have people falling all over themselves trying to answer this idiot's question. Because we can't have the noobs thinking we are unfriendly.
I have said it before and I will say it again. This is a library , NOT, HTC Tech support. Much as you would not go to the librarian and say give me all you've got on.....................
You ask the librarian where you would begin your search for................ and you go gather the information for yourself. So when a senior tells you to go search and start here, it is because we are following forum rule and noobs should be directed to also. And If that is not satisfactory to them them they should be directed to HTC Tech support because they are of no benefit to this community.
I like the way it was, is and will be. Search read and search some more, it is up to you to find it , not for the rest of us to fall over ourselves making it yet even easier because ...................
GTZ said:
if most people are like me (and i assume they are) they don't have time to search through thousands of posts just to find a possible answser to their questions.
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..........................i'm just sayin..................................
Okay, I have had my rant and vote, Josh, you can close the thread now
I honestly dont think that is a good idea because it would make it harder for new cooks to get there roms out, if a cook really is as good as you describe (which many are) you will find there roms but yes some cooks do upgrade phones and stop cooking and the sub-topic would then start falling apart and then no one will want to delete it otherwse all of that persons roms will be gone (I guess they could just move the threads actually) But still I think it seems unfair to newer cooks becaue the way it is set up now you can see if another rom starts to gain popularity otherwise everyone would only look at the cooks that have the most experiance.
BTW- I dont know how to cook but it sounds fun and I might want to learn someday if I stop feeling lazy lol so yeah thats one of the reasons I think like this but I guess this could be helpfull in some ways
GTZ said:
well what i was saying is give it to the ones that have earned it.
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There is no such thing as that! We all do this forum for free! So people do it when they find time! Once time is an issue cooks do vanish no matter how good they are! Just dont argue, read and enjoy the forum!
Let's appreciate the idea he had on his very first post, but I think We need to change the place of this discussion as well. Great buddy no more words no more options on my part, just ask anyone from senior members & they will tell you why they don't agree with this idea. They know the trend on this forum. Good Luck but I think this topic needs to be moved out of ROM upgrading atleast.
I think its lazy. You are trying to make stuff easier on yourself and make more work for the people poviding us with great ROMs, basically for free. I'm not sure if youve ever modified a forum but its no easy task. This isnt tech support. I have very few posts but thats because most of the questions are answered somewhere around here. If you dont have time to look, maybe you dont have time to flash. The rules are the rules abie by them.
Bottom line, dont make more work for the cooks, who spend hours and hours cooking for free just because you dont want to search.
[b]DISAGREE[/b]
Look at my SIG, especially the WHY ..
If you don't get the spirit, go somewhere else where people are willing to spoonfeed you. This is a developer site, not user site.
I'm not a developer, so what I can contribute is only bug reporting and testing .. and if you're not, have some respect to them, help them by doing more research. 99% of what you're looking for is there.
Chefs that would like to have their own subforum can just have another forum with a link on his topic.
This is exactly what Phoenix Dev Team does...
XDA-Devs board is a like friendly jungle. Just take your time to learn how to navigate through it, this is not that hard.
Flashing and upgrading regularly ROMs and softwares means you do have time for this. So one shall learn to have time to search. Anyway, by reading throught posts, one gets a much better control over his phone as you have more knowledge about this or that, not only a superficial approach, which will undeniably lead to a new thread: I don't get it, it's broken or similar .
Only my 2ct-philosophy...
OK so i know this is the wrong forum, BUT I came across this and wanted to "bump" it so to speak. This was posted by kyphur in 08 and in a mods sig now. Please read and adhere to the spirit of the post. It is RIGHT ON!!!
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
the idea is not that only developers should be looking at this site, but that this is a place where developers communicate with each other and the beneficiaries of their work. This is not the place for someone to post threads about general questions about how to use or mod their device. This is a place that will develop the capabilities of the android platform if it is allowed. Developers WILL abandon this forum if it becomes a bulletin board or a technical support site.....and if you need a question answered, there are other forums on THIS site to address those.
Agreed 100%. While developing for the Windows mobile, I also got the same thing. I would post a thread and WARN people of a certain things and tell them how to fix it. Then I'd get 30 pages of "geeze, you broke something. how do you fix it?" That gets annoying real fast. I would love it if this forum forced people to take a test before they could post in the development sections... Before that, they should only be able to post in the regular sections.
One thing that really bugs me is the fact that the newbs don't want to search but don't realize that they take OUR time to search FOR them. No one knows everything. Every developer on this site searches and learns. I know that if you put together all the time that I've spent on this site JUST researching and searching, it'd be MONTHS and MONTHS of non-stop, no sleep searching and researching. So why can't the average person search for 2 minutes? Is their time worth more than my time?
/rant - while talking on the phone so it might not make sense...
Pinesal said:
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
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There are thousands, but essentially all they do is copy stuff off here.
Like the post said, if you just want to root your phone so it can do 'cool stuff' and not give a **** about how the damn thing works then maybe you shouldn't be modding your phone (that wasn't aimed at you btw, just 'people' in general the market place is made up of 99% 'these people' who don't/can't read and it's pretty irritating.)
Agree with the post 100%, fantastic
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Agreed. It's really, really, really, really getting to me. I wish OP's had semi-moderator power. They could at least delete all necessary posts and ban that user - if required- for a certain amount of time from their thread only.
jubeh said:
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
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ughh, no i'm not an admin, and no almost all my posts, or the majority, or a half are reported threads, but i do try to help out the mods when i can. they are not on all forums at all times and can use the help, and they have said as much.
Oh thank you thank you! People here should want to understand why thing the work as they work. Not just want their phones to look cool.
As it you wouldnt know it, i have been with xda for years well since the titan came out. before that i was modding an ipaq and of course the old palms. everyonce in awhile i lose interest and move on only to come back when i have something new(major a.d.d). i do write java as well as c and even c++(so on) i typically find this place useful to try stuff out and even set up my own custom rom just for me. i dont post because i can google. while i have many of my own questions i would like answered i simply dont ask most of the time(such as using micro kernels and modding app2sd to make the os have two options sd in or out. however the problem is not the generations or age difference or anything like that. its social systems outside of xda. posting a reply used to mean an answer or something useful. now its normal to simply post "great job". thats nice and all but maybe instead of complaining about it we should come up with a new system that improves xda. like a sorting system or sub thread system and set up catagorys for our replys. like thumbs up would be for the "good job". i know its hard to keep everyone happy but this is a forum first, a forum has design problems when you get the number of people xda has. use advanced search it helps a lot. a sorting system with requirements for certain catagorys would help devs. its not easy modding and getting it right and you cant do it alone. xda is the help even if its not your phone sometimes others have solutions too. such as winmo users putting android on their phones(yes i did it too my old titan for fun). things i learned and other devs learn can help us and vice versa. i have yet to find bad technology only poorly thought out ideas that could have been. which is why we mod.
p.s. wtf is up with palm and blackberry ads all the time.
Most of those kids just want the answer or fix in the next 3min. with perfect steps or a patch that supposedly will fix and hack their device,after that they´ll never show up.
All they want is to show off without bothering to read.
I totaly understand. I do feel sometimes that certain devs do get a bit annoyed with people who just want to fix the phone and not understand. I'm not linux or coding wiz. But whe I got here in may I was one of the people who just wanted me phone to be better than urs. I still have that to some extent but I have developed more of a "how and what is causeing this issue" attitude. I try to contribute as best as I can. Helping out over at q&a as best as I can. I enjoy xda and without my days would be more boring than what the are now. I dunno I guess I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I have tried to correct my attitude toward modding. Hell I even post my email so users can drop a line if they need help.
i am 20 and i fondly remember blowing into my nes super nes and genesis games.
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
saprano614 said:
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
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nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
jaaronmoody said:
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
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Just want to make a statement befor someone did.
I thank you for this post. I came to this forum a long time ago I have learned quite a bit and appreciate everything that is done here. There are very skillful people that are on here and I wish I had the amount of skill then thesemodders, hackers, developers etc... have I keep my mouth shut unless i feel there is some thing that i know how to answer, i have never complained about a single rom i simply research what can be done to change for fix it, all answers rely in a search somewhere either here or google. I just wish other people would do the same then we would be able to prevent a 300+ page threads where only about 25 pages are worth anything.
look at the amount of posts from someone who knows they are barley able to contrubute(but do what he can) and been here this long. compared to people who have been here dont have much to contribute but love to post everything that comes to thier minds.
Join Date
22nd October 2006
Total Posts
89
samygent said:
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
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Click to collapse
HEY!
im 18 and clearly remember blowing into those damn games to make them work. but when they worked, so much fun i still think theyre better than the crappy xbox and ps3 games of today... but thats just me. lol
pleeease yall! let's keep THIS thread on topic! LOL!!
It seems to me that there is a lot of frustration amongst devs, those in the know, and the unschooled to the ways regarding pretty basic information. Stuff like "is MR2 froyo or gingerbread?". I know I'd be asking and saying some industrial strength stupid and annoying things if I didn't have a good friend in the know. I suppose what I'm suggesting here is perhaps several things. The first would be describing a number of specifications regarding the ROM or kernel at hand. Not just for the latest ROM or kernel, but for all the downloads available on the OP. Usually the change log covers that, but what I'm suggesting here is a certain I uniformity of certain information. That way some noob can go do his homework real fast and not post some stupid question.
The second thought I have is creating the "stupid question thread" (that would grow like a weed, huh?). It would have basic stuff like what the RUU's are, their characteristics, what radios they work with, what the different radios are, setting up ADB, and really basic stuff that I keep seeing posted again and again all over. I was reading through the Tbolt forums months before I got my Tbolt and my last phone was an Incredible so the worlds didn't change a hell of a lot for your average flashing junky. But that isn't everybody's experience. I'm suggesting a thread or the guy that just got his Tbolt and is saying "Now I wanna root it!" then "It's rooted! Now what's out there!" And zap! there's te thread that gives him a rundown of all the basics.
This sound like a good idea to anyone? If so, let me know and I'll work something up.
I am a noob, TB being my first Android phone. When I started reading the forums, my very first thought was: how come I can't find a noob thread that I can actually understand, that explains the basics, etc. It did not exist! Hence al the annoying (to some) posts elsewhere. If such a thread existed it would have been a huge help for me. It could be organized similar to ROM threads, with some introductory remarks, (a radio is XYZ, you flash it this way, etc.) followed by specific questions / comments. I like the idea!
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
This is a good idea.. if no one makes one soon ill take it up
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App
There is no substitute for taking the time to read the various threads and educating yourself. I think the devs do a pretty good job of supporting their work but to ask them to put together super noob threads and FAQs is just not something they're gonna do with any regularity.
The reason why no one has done it is because all of the noobs are to lazy or ignorant to read those threads, then continue to post their stupid and already-answered question anyway, flooding the threads as usual.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
I think it sounds like a good idea but as stated above people probably won't read it or take it's advice. Typically all the ROM/Kernel threads state EVERYTHING needed to know in the OP. Yet people will still ALWAYS ask something that is answered in the OP. Most people look at screenshots and then jump straight to the download link. This is my 3rd Android phone and when I got the TBolt I read and read prior to rooting. I had one issue that I hadn't seen posted so I asked. Then I ended up figuring it out on my own anyways. If people would just read info prior to downloading and jumping into it they would be fine. Creating a new thread with basics is great but how effective will it truely be?
Mustang302LX said:
I think it sounds like a good idea but as stated above people probably won't read it or take it's advice. Typically all the ROM/Kernel threads state EVERYTHING needed to know in the OP. Yet people will still ALWAYS ask something that is answered in the OP. Most people look at screenshots and then jump straight to the download link. This is my 3rd Android phone and when I got the TBolt I read and read prior to rooting. I had one issue that I hadn't seen posted so I asked. Then I ended up figuring it out on my own anyways. If people would just read info prior to downloading and jumping into it they would be fine. Creating a new thread with basics is great but how effective will it truely be?
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I agree with you 99%. However, there are several cases especially with BAMF threads where there are hundreds of pages and thousands of posts. The OP many times doesn't have solutions to common problems and the only way to find an answer is to spend hours reading through hundreds of pages. (I admit that BAMF is doing much better with their 3.0 RC2 thread). I know you are going to say to search but when a thread is that large it is hard to find meaningful search results.
Google is a noobs best friend. What is an RUU? Google it! What is deodexed? Google it! Etc. Etc. Etc...... The Devs develop. It's our job to educate ourselves. They do this for free. Between the forums and Google, most if not all questions can be answered. The ones that can't be answered is when the forums should be used. Just my opinion.
mpfstc said:
Google is a noobs best friend. What is an RUU? Google it! What is deodexed? Google it! Etc. Etc. Etc...... The Devs develop. It's our job to educate ourselves. They do this for free. Between the forums and Google, most if not all questions can be answered. The ones that can't be answered is when the forums should be used. Just my opinion.
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Agree. But, the question "can the X patch from the previous version be used on this version?" People get flamed for asking questions like that and many times there is nothing on the OP.
droidisawesome said:
Agree. But, the question "can the X patch from the previous version be used on this version?" People get flamed for asking questions like that and many times there is nothing on the OP.
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Click to collapse
Because most often.. the dev himself does not know the answer.. and honestly.. the best way to know if something works or not is try it yourself. .. so I can understand when devs get frustrated with people asking certain permutation and combination of patches will work with their roms or not.
Once you understand (which comes with experience and lot of googling).. what affects certain aspects of a rom.. then you'll know yourself if a particular patch will work or not.
Patches from previous roms or other roms.. will never brick your phone.. the worst.. your phone won't boot up.. or it'll boot up and FC like crazy.. in which case you can always restore.
and I agree.. the best way for a noob to educate is google..
googling is an art.. once you get good at it.. there is almost nothing that you can't get information about.
And with some of the responses I just read in this thread is exactly why I haven't rooted my T-bolt yet. I rooted my D1 and really enjoyed flashing different ROMs and Themes but the HTC experience is a bit different from the one on the Motorola. I don't feel like getting flamed for asking something that those of you that have been using HTC long enough now find to be a useless question. I ran Blackdroids ROMs because he had an IRC channel where you could ask questions without being flamed openly in a forum for 100+ to see. I learned quite a bit to where I could eventually help others with it but I'm not at all comfortable yet with Hboot and ADB but hope to learn enough from reading to not bother you with questions you find trivial. I've read for a week now so what's another week
It appears there is a need for what I propose. Regarding those who's complaint is that nobody will read it, I say, at least someone put forth the effort and if someone like, linking to the thread is easy. Indeed looking stuff up for yourself is wise, however, it takes more time for people and all too often you don't know how accurate what your reading is or from what authority the writer speaks. I will agree most devs supply ample info on their work, but often its in jargon that makes no sense or lacks context. Part of the purpose for this thread would be to supply sense and context.
Hopefully over the next few days I can find time to whip something up. I welcome all suggestions and comments for content!
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
Ryanmo5 said:
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
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I commend you. I could imagine your task at hand is like trying to clean up the streets of St Louis by yourself. It has become anarchy here, just people running their mouth with no consequence. You deleted one of my posts because it became off topic, I was actually happy, because it was deserved.
My only suggestion is consequence. I know it's hard to really "punish" someone over the internet, but any kind of action should be taken to breaking the rules.
Thanks for taking your time just to read post over post, just to see if people are following rules.
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
Ryanmo5 said:
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
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You're welcome. See you around
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
Old MuckenMire said:
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
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VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
ScoobarSTI said:
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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Sadly that's the way it has always been, there are always those users who are on here to simply tear people down and complain. Maybe its boredom but its something that has always bothered me as well. Not sure there's much anyone can do about it however, unless they are flaming and posting rude comments that's when the mods can do their thing. If enough complaints are reported about certain users then action is also justified so don't be afraid to let us know.
I'm gonna improve the sticky I put up in the dev section to include more info for noobs and see if that helps.
Ryanmo5 said:
VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
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No problem man, and I'm not trying to rat people out either. I just wanted to show an example of what has been going on. A lot of members here(even me included at times I'm sure) have been acting like this is our forum instead of us all acting like guests here and treating others as guests as well.
It's so hard to clean things up and police them, what one person feels should be asked in a thread for a specific ROM another person feels should be in the "general" or Q&A section.
If I'm having a "general" (ie battery, GPS, etc.) issue after I flash a ROM I'm going to look to that ROM's thread for answers - I find that if I post something in the 'general' forum about a specific ROM I get all kinds of answers from folks running different ROMs or that are not rooted and, while I appreciate the help, I don't think that somebody is as able to help unless they are on that particular s/ware. Isn't battery life and/or GPS a development issue if a lot of people are having that problem? Spin off to a new thread, reduce clutter, and post a link to the thread in the OP. (then you can at least chastise somebody if the info is in the first post which should ALWAYS be read in its entirety).
I think it would be nice if a developer would put in the OP a couple links to specific threads that have been started that are talking about specific issues w/a specific ROM. Right now the CM7 development thread has spawned a couple different troubleshooting threads, but there is no link in the OP to those.
On one of my previous ROMs the OP had all kinds of links to help threads and FAQ, etc.
I also think that the old "if you can't say something nice...." saying should be rule #1 - it would save a LOT of issues when somebody chimes in and says "how do I.....?" and somebody else responds with "why don't you try reading/searching, etc." - why can't they just take the same amount of energy they used typing that snide comment and instead point in a helpful direction?
I understand the frustration, I too get tired of the same Q's being asked over and over again but I've also failed at the "search" on the site and had to have people guide me, especially when it's something I'm new to, like Netflix, etc.
Now I'm just rambling......
ScoobarSTI said:
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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I really doubt it will.
I can see what everyone is saying. I've been involved with Android phones since day one and have been active on several boards for many years now.
I was with T-Mobile for over 15 years and am a Pillar on their boards, so I've spent alot of time there.
I've used XDA for some time now with the G1, G2, Cliq, MyTouch, etc.
When I got the Thunderbolt, I came to this forum and I noticed a very different "air" about this forum as others had pointed out. I found it kinda odd since the phone was so new.
One thing that I did notice was that "moderation" (and I know everyone is busy around here) is not as, for lack of a better word..."swift" around here. On most other boards I am on (and also ran), rules violations were not tolerated and handled very quickly with "Time outs" being given out to minor offenders and outright bans given to major offenders.
That being said, as other have said, unless there is a consequence for an action, the behavior will continue.
Not sure what can be done to help monitor this board better, since I do not know how all of it is handled internally, but I think if there was more of a moderator presence (as in jumping into a thread and posting about staying on topic or watching language, etc). Maybe the "bad boys" will just get tired of not being able to "terroize" anyone anymore and just leave.
Just my two cents.
2 issue's that see on this board (and others) -
1. Anyone that ask a question already posted is immediately called a N00b and slammed on.
2. Just cause someone has low post count they are called N00b (yep happens to me on this one)
It seems that there is no patience by many user's on answering questions (if you don't have kids wait till you do, you will be answering them many times over) why get so flustered cause people ask questions, whether or not they have been answered. Not everyone is a N00b because of low post count (I know I'm not and can hold my own anytime) I also don't act like I know everything either. Some people can't let things go either.. if you don't like it why respond? just ignore it. A little common courtesy goes a long way folks. Also folks asking for things to be fixed ASAP on newly released Roms and refuse to use them until they are or they ***** and complain over and over about the issue. Just a question, do you act like this at home or deal with things like this at home with programs you use? All software has issue's if you think they don't or your the perfect programmer, you don't belong doing this. Even major software and telecom companies have bugs that happen that are not always caught on release. Its normal and if you can do better and want everything perfect, then start programming!
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
admiralspark said:
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
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Feel free to add to it!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1168433
i commend you for this ryan but it's gonna take more than just you to make xda a better place to be. the issue is instead of people just answering questions, they always say "search" .....what a waste.
the other issue is this site seems to be run by the members and not the devs, nobodies hardly on here anymore it seems. it also takes forever for a mod to show up when you report something. now don't get me wrong i love xda for the freedom i have to an extent, i also do not want a police state like android central is. there has got to be a medium somehow.
i wish we could of talked about this earlier, i hate the fact soo many devs have left the tbolt section.
I'm glad to see an effort is being made, it's going to take work from everyone.
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
For example:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1169292
As a rooted user, this post would just be a waste of space and pretty offtopic. For an unrooted user, you're going to get the obligatory "ORLY???" type posts from rooted users because to those that rooted, this is old news (either because they already got the update ages ago or they changed their boot animation to something custom).
yareally said:
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
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i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
fixxxer2008 said:
i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
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I'd say probably 20% that come here don't root. I have no idea why either when they could go to more general forums for android out there that aren't so development/rooting focused. I really don't have much empathy for them when they complain about things being broke/not having fancy new features, but eh, each to their own. They would be better off complaining to the source (verizon) than complaining on here cluttering up the forum, since most of their issues cannot be fixed without doing what the refuse to do.
With that being said, a seperate forum would let them figure stuff out without getting in the way of those that did root.