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I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!
That would be SICK... But I don't think it'd be possible due to the size of the camera sensor in most mobile phones.
i just know that the HTC Bass (Runnymede) will be able to do 720p recording at 60fps.
afaik, there are no known phones that can do [email protected] currently.
socalwrx said:
I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!
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Sounds like James Cameron's dream phone, to me. Cameron is pushing for the movie industry to adopt a minimum 60fp/s for movies.
is 60fps the limit? cant it go any higher?
Really isn't much benefit in going higher except for Video/Sports analysis, TBH. For just watching stuff, 60 FPS is good enough.
I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.
socalwrx said:
I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.
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agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that
AllGamer said:
agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that
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Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
tjtj4444 said:
Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
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This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
Yes, we all like to see those beautiful bullet time type videos shot with fast cameras, but there are limitations other than processing power. In this case it's optical. The faster you shoot, the better lit the scene needs to be and the better the light gathering ability of the optics. Perfectly easy to overcome when you're lighting the scene and using proper hardware. Not so good when you're using a phone to do the shooting though!
I don't see the point of 1080p/60fps until they can do 1080p/30fps properly
Also better optics before moving onto anything else
DirkGently1 said:
This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
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Sorry but I don't agree at all, and your post doesn't include one single argument for you statement so it doesn't make any change.
30 fps looks ok, but 60fps video looks more fluid. It is very obvious in fast moving videos, e g sports.
I know that movies are made for 24fps and have "motion blur" to remove the problems with low frame rate, and some people prefere this motion blur (i e movie captured with small aperture) but that is a matter of taste and doesn't change what looks more fluid or not.
HTC Vivid [email protected] http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_vivid-4302.php
That all depends on the GPU. Maybe the powervr sgx 543 can, seems the most plausible of all the GPUs available.
So those can shoot @60fps:
-LG G2
-Note 3
-HTC One (720p only)
Does anybody know more devices?
Maybe Nexus 5 after some camera hack...? I would buy if it had 1080p60
Samsung Galaxy S4 and S5 can record 60fps video as well
Im working on the camera, but the driver seems to be "limited" to 30FPS so if i set 60FPS on the apk will not work, due kernel override it.
I need a kernel developer to look deep into this, please can anyone send me a PM i think can be cool have working QHD or HD at 60 FPS for better experience.
See you!
Yes you would have a better experience because your eye´s can see 25.5 frames per second .....
thats why movies are so bad because they only have 25 frames per second .. they are so ugly to see
xtcislove said:
Yes you would have a better experience because your eye´s can see 25.5 frames per second .....
thats why movies are so bad because they only have 25 frames per second .. they are so ugly to see
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such BS.. eyes can see a lot more then 25.5 frames a second..
But you will never notice a difference...
You can always play 60fps video with 25fps and have smooth slowmotion
xtcislove said:
But you will never notice a difference...
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of course you see a difference.. did you try to play an egoshooter locked up to 25fps.. its complete ****.. even between 40fps and 60fps there is a huge difference
also movies in cinema wich are 25fps have frames in between to make it more smoothly so you actually see 25 different frames in a second but in reality you see 75 frames ( depending on an actions equence and stuff)
Jur1nator said:
of course you see a difference.. did you try to play an egoshooter locked up to 25fps.. its complete ****.. even between 40fps and 60fps there is a huge difference
also movies in cinema wich are 25fps have frames in between to make it more smoothly so you actually see 25 different frames in a second but in reality you see 75 frames ( depending on an actions equence and stuff)
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The fact is that the human eye perceives the typical cinema film motion as being fluid at about 18fps, because of its blurring.
But definetly you can apreciate diference bewten 30 and 60FPS ( this last more nitid cleear and smooth
Compare this, and then tell me if you see diference...
youtube reconverts at 30FPS so, you need to see the second one ( slowmo ) you se the second video is more fluid.
If you pause the video in movement, at 30FPS the image is blurry at 60FPS NOT....
So i think 60FPS is a good point to develop, maybe not for you but for me, and skaters, or other people doing high speed sports, this can be awesome.
Excuse my bad english.
|ErosizeD| said:
The fact is that the human eye perceives the typical cinema film motion as being fluid at about 18fps, because of its blurring.
But definetly you can apreciate diference bewten 30 and 60FPS ( this last more nitid cleear and smooth
Compare this, and then tell me if you see diference...
youtube reconverts at 30FPS so, you need to see the second one ( slowmo ) you se the second video is more fluid.
If you pause the video in movement, at 30FPS the image is blurry at 60FPS NOT....
So i think 60FPS is a good point to develop, maybe not for you but for me, and skaters, or other people doing high speed sports, this can be awesome.
Excuse my bad english.
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I can totally see the difference. this would be a great addition to your mod.
I can see it as well. I can only hope that one of the kernel developers can help out with this. Could be a great addition to our devices.
First of all, The CMOS Support up to 60FPS 1080P and 720P.
The second thing, the DPS seem stronger, than most smartphones, doing more than 40mbps withouth frame dropping thats a loot of power
and the DPS play fluid 1080P videos at 60FPS and 720P ( in hardware mode ), so there is a chance to do the same with recording.
IM NOT SURE IF THE ENCODERS ARE CONFIGURED FOR 60FPS, but the kernel is limited to 30FPS so can try to delete this limitation, and test then see what happens with that famous 60FPS.
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Okay, i assume, no one seems interested on this, yea! overclock, loot of roms, Cyanogen...etc ...etc but, what happens with the camera? is a good point to develop!!
maybe isnt a big deal but i think this can be improved a loot more, not only on the sensation, also on other smartphones.
Not only due less compression, can say the photos have a hard postprocess like the Optimus 3D, and is a bit weird the photos looks bad, iphone 4 photos looks much better, and its for REAL i have photos to compare and hell.. huge diference.
In part i think is because the photos looks oversharped and maybe the encoding format isnt the best, and because that, the picture, have less details.
Im trying to OUT a RAW picture format, is the best to apreciate the 100% of the CMOS power.
Now the important thing the DRIVER.
Actually im studying the driver carefully, for now only higher FPS to test if i can get the famous 60FPS at 720P or maybe with a bit of lucky at 1080P ( sounds like a joke this last haha )
Im not sure if there are any other thing to care, maybe in HEX.
Code:
#define S5K3H1GX_MAX_FPS 30 [COLOR="Red"]set TO 120FPS[/COLOR]
#define S5K3H1GX_MAX_FPS_PARALLEL 30 [COLOR="red"]set TO 120FPS[/COLOR]
I need some help from more advanced developers, please give me a hand with this i cant compile yet the kernel correcly so if someone can do this for me, thanks, me and a loot of people will apreciate this.
I ADDED THE KERNEL DRIVER with the first modification.
I do not have much time right now, but im gonna do my best, and finish that damn mod, hell!! haha
And again, like ever excuse my bad english, and no, no google traducer, i want to learn it myself without help of that **** called google traducer haha.
Thanks in advance, because together we can do better!
( reserved space for next step if can finallize the first one )
try this kernel:
http://www.multiupload.com/VYN9NZ76Q0
This kernel is compatible with all the roms? just the camera driver?
Im on Revolution HD.
Or you just patched the driver and compile?
Mdeejay what do you think about this? thanks this is a good start i think.
PD: This also need APK modifications right?
60FPS would be fantastic
Yea, now im on school, when im at home im gonna mod the cameraa to accept the 60fps and then, see what happens
I've said it in another thread and I will say it once here.
I hope somebody proves me wrong.
I think the most problems you're going to get are with the lens and the sensor, not the DSP or media engine or something else.
Compared to even a simple compact digital camera we have a very slow lens and aa crappy tiny sensor. You might reach 40fps, but anything close to 60fps will only result in an almost black movie, or to dark to see anything.
May I advise to first try to force the camera in taking a single picture with a shutterspeed of 15ms and ISO800? Just to see how the image would look at 60fps, and hopefully prove me wrong?
And as far as encoding goes, higher bitrates don't make it really harder for a DSP or hardware encoder. All the calculating comes from analyzing the picture with a certain sset of H264 features. Things like framerate, width & height and the amount of motion in a movie depends how hard the DSP needs to work. Bitrates only matters in the amount of data the phone can process (SD card write speed, bus speed on the DSP, etc...).
Good luck !
dipje said:
I've said it in another thread and I will say it once here.
I hope somebody proves me wrong.
I think the most problems you're going to get are with the lens and the sensor, not the DSP or media engine or something else.
Compared to even a simple compact digital camera we have a very slow lens and aa crappy tiny sensor. You might reach 40fps, but anything close to 60fps will only result in an almost black movie, or to dark to see anything.
May I advise to first try to force the camera in taking a single picture with a shutterspeed of 15ms and ISO800? Just to see how the image would look at 60fps, and hopefully prove me wrong?
And as far as encoding goes, higher bitrates don't make it really harder for a DSP or hardware encoder. All the calculating comes from analyzing the picture with a certain sset of H264 features. Things like framerate, width & height and the amount of motion in a movie depends how hard the DSP needs to work. Bitrates only matters in the amount of data the phone can process (SD card write speed, bus speed on the DSP, etc...).
Good luck !
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Very explicit! thanks now my answer haha
Thats the fact, but really, you will never see the true potential of CMOS on smartphones, because they're limited the 100% of it's power...
Sometimes just because they want to sell you another device with the same camera, but with more features enabled, market strategy, they sell to you the same with higher price ( HTC Sensation XE maybe? Wildfire S? )
Actually the Optimus 3D shoots fast photos than before.
you actually, can shoot a photo on movement and you can see all the details, just modifying the exposure time and shutter speed.
You have seen a RAW photo from nokia n900 5MP?? Amazing just that, better don't watch a raw from a N8, that's just ****ing amazing, better than most bridge cameras, and close to the economic reflex.
About that fact of FPS, higher resolution = more shutter time needed, and more processing power.
I said this before, this Camera supports up to 60FPS at 1080P, so in theory is capable, why cant be this true?
There are digital cameras with phone sensors, actually recording at 1080P 60FPS and doesn't have to much better lens.
If youre right, okay, good but can try it out and see what happens, and then, well at least you try it, and youre sure about its impossible..
if you don't try it, you never know, and you ever feel wrong about it.
One thousand views... no more answers...
Give it a try,
|ErosizeD| said:
One thousand views... no more answers...
Give it a try,
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i talked to show-p1984 (bricked kernel), he managed to get rid of the fps limit some time ago for testing purposes, but only result was crashing camera app, so you may talk to him
(for example in the IRC channel written in my sig)
hlenforcer said:
i talked to show-p1984 (bricked kernel), he managed to get rid of the fps limit some time ago for testing purposes, but only result was crashing camera app, so you may talk to him
(for example in the IRC channel written in my sig)
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how to use an IRC? really i never use it
I think im gonna talk to him, and see what she discovered.
|ErosizeD| said:
how to use an IRC? really i never use it
I think im gonna talk to him, and see what she discovered.
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if you only want to make a short conversation, the webchat aplet of the irc network should be enough: http://webchat.freenode.net/
our channel is named: #Sensation-Devs
if you need it more than once i recommend an IRC client software like mirc for windows or even better: xchat for linux/windows
irc server: irc.freenode.net
Is there any progress on this really cool idea???
I would like to have may camera working with 60fps at 1080p
Devs, could anybody help this guy? Unfortunately I'm not able to help him, because I don't know anything about compiling etc. - I'm just a simple user
Best regards, and - I believe in YOU (all)
cool400
u should talk to persiansown..he has a real knack for kernels and extra mods with them...made great kernels for the nexus with tons of extra features
Hi!
RAW format should be awesome!
Thanks to your kernel mod
@erosize: I see 120fps camera (kernel only) notes in the latest AndroidHD 3.6.2/4.1.2 changelog.
I'm curious, does that mean there is any progress?
Regarding my posts about the sensation sensor being too small and the lens aperture being too high, look the specs for the iPhone 4s, they addressed those points specifically
did anyone try iPhone 4 camera ?? it's so cleaaaar
-juanito- said:
did anyone try iPhone 4 camera ?? it's so cleaaaar
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yea, super clear.... much more than sensation and other smartphones, with only 5MP...
and is because this android phones have weird RAW to JPG comversion...
ANd yes, there is finally a kernel with the 120FPS uncap limitation, thanks seems he listen to me!
Now need to work deeper in to the APK and system.
I think the next thing that needs to be done is to test the new "uncapped" kernel against an aosp camera since it's source is available, so we can get an idea of what we need to reverse engineer in the sense camera... my 2sentz
any new progress? i really like the idea to test this ...
I've been recording a few 4k clips. I think its pretty pointless A) No OIS , you need a tripod only reall for using it B) Frame rate not 30fps all the time stutters a bit.
Other than that its the most detailed amazing video on my 2560 x 1440p monitor (No 4k monitor yet), but with no OIS its really not practical at all. Or usable. And not to mention the 5 minute clip limit...
Anyone here going to honestly be using it over 1080p? (Unless you carry a tripod) Guess i'm too use to the G2's OIS camera which gives much smoother videos.
Honestly, mostly I just use 720p. In my opinion the 4k function is an marketing trick by Samsung. Well it works but the mainstream market needs a few more years until it's the non+ ultra. It's nice to have but I'm quietly sure I won't use it at all.
Lenniitsch said:
Honestly, mostly I just use 720p. In my opinion the 4k function is an marketing trick by Samsung. Well it works but the mainstream market needs a few more years until it's the non+ ultra. It's nice to have but I'm quietly sure I won't use it at all.
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Agreed. 100% marketing gimmick. Other than playing with it for a few minutes, doubt I will ever use it again. If it was 4K 30fps with image stabilization yes.
Chaialo says
I was actually thinking of filming a commercial with it. I do have a tripod, slider and a clamp to hold it. I will also be shooting the same scenes in 1080P on my HPX300 just in case.
Hendrickson said:
I've been recording a few 4k clips. I think its pretty pointless A) No OIS , you need a tripod only reall for using it B) Frame rate not 30fps all the time stutters a bit.
Other than that its the most detailed amazing video on my 2560 x 1440p monitor (No 4k monitor yet), but with no OIS its really not practical at all. Or usable. And not to mention the 5 minute clip limit...
Anyone here going to honestly be using it over 1080p? (Unless you carry a tripod) Guess i'm too use to the G2's OIS camera which gives much smoother videos.
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I wish you guys would quit with the whining.. the camera (from what I have seen) is clearly better than its predecessors or just about anything on the market for a smartphone. Samsung has clearly improved this phone in every way, its by far the best phone on the market. No other phone can anywhere close to what this phone offers, the features are endless. So stop crying and be happy that you are fortunate to own the best phone on the market. IMO
I don't think that the 4k ability is outstanding but someone has to take the first step. And that the note 3 can handle the bandwidth needed for 4k is enough to wow me right there.(it is very compressed I'd imagine)
And to people saying its a marketing gimmick, isn't the iphones slow mo feature the same? The note 3 can do 720p 120fps just like the iphone but there not hyping it up. 4k is more exciting then watching every video on YouTube in slow mo. If I want to watch slow mo I want to see it at 1000fps with a true slow mo camera.
Lenniitsch said:
Honestly, mostly I just use 720p. In my opinion the 4k function is an marketing trick by Samsung. Well it works but the mainstream market needs a few more years until it's the non+ ultra. It's nice to have but I'm quietly sure I won't use it at all.
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Uh, 4K is a feature of the snapdragon 800 chipset. Samsung had nothing to do with it. Blame Qualcomm for it being less than desirable.
I imagine xda devs will get around the 5 minute limit soon enough.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317
I'm so tired of coming to this forum and seeing people constantly complain about things that are either superficial or not mind blowing (etc. speakers not putting out surround sound 7.1, 4k not being worlds better than 1080p).
Keep these negative post in:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2458640
Agree Sgt. Beside that I would add permission that people with less of 200 (maybe 100) cant open new threads in general..Only qa.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
Sounds great, they should also make it that Samsung fanboys can only start posts too? Fanboys here don't let people express their opinions which is what forums are all about discussions and sometimes there are topics you might not like.
Edit: I've request this thread be lock and buried incase more don't like it
Mod Edit
Thread closed at [OP] request
malybru
Forum Moderator
Hi there,
Is there a way to change setting time (video slow motion) which is 1,8 seconds, can we do it with APK editor or it takes advanced mode, eventually a developer to do it?
Has anyone ever tried to do it ?
Thank you for your answers.
It's 1/8s, not 1,8. It's next to impossible to tweak it by yourself. And it's probably coming with the update, playing it for 3 seconds in fHD rather than 6 seconds in HD
But who knows if they will update
Leave the request on Sony support website
The recording time for super slow motion is limited by the hardware's capabilities to the 1/8s.
Yup, it's limited by the RAM buffer in the camera. As far as I can tell, we could extend the duration by lowering the resolution down from 720p, but that would look awful, even 720p doesn't produce great results unless there's tons of light. Just as the new XZ2 lineup will have 1080p slowmo but with even shorter duration, because it has the same RAM buffer amount (with the option to go with 720p, though). What I'd rather like is to have the ability to lower the framerate down from 960FPS, that way we could also make longer slowmo videos, for example if we could do ~400FPS, that's still more than enough for a cool shot and would be able to extend the duration. 960FPS is really cool, but not necessary for capturing some cool stuff. It always bugged me that they fixed the slowmo framerate to 960FPS, I'm sure it's possible to make it adjustable via software. What framerate do iPhones shoot slowmo at? 250-ish? And you can make them as long as you like, right?
Hello, may it possible to make 960 fps at 1080p ? It will be great!
Not on XZ lineup, at least for now, we might get that feature after the XZ2 release.
But anyways, why would that be great?
Switching to 1080p super slowmo makes the slowmo capture time even shorter, it is already nearly impossible at 720p to capture the right moment you want in slowmo, 1080p makes it evene shorter and harder. I'd rather have lower framerate and longer duration of the superslowmo than higher resolution. I just contacted sony support about this possible feature, still waiting for the answer. It's stupid to have a hardware capable of recording at 960FPS and not being able to lower that framerate in order to extend the duration of the shot. It's a software limitation and an oversight, nothing more, the hardware is there. It's like Sony saying, "Hey, here's one of the coolest features we ever implemented in a phone. But good luck actually using it because it's damn near impossible to do so. But it's there. Please buy our phones. Cheers." The RAM buffer and the sensor in the XZ2 will allegedly be the same as on XZ1 and Premium. If they can get 1080p super slowmo on it, it's a software modification. And if they can do that, they can also give us the option to switch the framerate. But they don't because higher specs sell better. It's all good on paper, but sucks in practical use.