Related
These past weeks I've noticed an increase of irrelevant threads and clutter being made in regards to Android development in the HTC Dream forum and every other Android development forum on xda. A lot of Android devices out on the market now are not made by HTC. This of course is causing a problem since this forum is for HTC devices only.
Maybe it would be a good idea if a new forum was created that accounts for all native Android devices (Motorola Droid/Milestone, Motorola Cliq/Dext, Samsung Galaxy, etc...). That way, a lot of the clutter would surely be resolved and a considerate load would be taken off of this server (Gotta hate the horrible load on xda these days...).
I'm sure there are quiet a few people on here that have an HTC device and are fully satisfied with it (Me included!). That doesn't mean that everyone else has to feel the same way. People that choose to go with Samsung, Motorola, etc. for their next Android device should not be left out. That's why I believe there should definitely be a forum that serves everyone.
To put up a new forum specifically for this matter takes no time at all, but it does take participation. So if you feel like this is something you would like to see, please feel free to leave a comment.
What are you're opinions on this matter? Agree? Disagree?
Discuss.
If there's enough people interested in this project, would there be anyone willing to help getting things started in terms of hosting space or something similar?
Sorry, I misunderstood "a new forum was created that accounts for all native Android devices" to mean that a new subforum on XDA should be made, so I voted no. Upon reading it again, I realized you meant to create an independant Android specific site, which I would actually be in favor of. So while I can't change my vote officially, you should know that one of the "No" votes should actually be considered a "Yes" vote.
Yea, sorry. I meant that there should be a completly new forum for all android devices (not a subforum on xda). Thanks for your vote!
Like I mentioned before, there are definitely more people who agree than those who disagree. Only problem will be to spread the word I guess.
I think XDA-Developers needs to be divided into a Windows Mobile and an Android section and those need to be further divided into HTC and non-HTC ones.
With more and more Android devices, and rising competition for HTC from Samsung, Motorola, Sony Ericsson etc., XDA-Developers cannot stay WM-focused and HTC-only without becoming irrelevant and losing its no.1 status for everything concerning WM and Android development.
EDIT: OR make independent, but linked together, sites for WM and Android and for different manufacturers.
maati said:
EDIT: OR make independent, but linked together, sites for WM and Android and for different manufacturers.
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Click to collapse
That's what I'm thinking as well.
I forsee good things to come from this. Or the thread just being closed.
There needs to be a WinMo forum and Android Forum that are both linked from the home page.
I would be all for this, and would be more than happy to fund the project. Hosting, domain fees, coding ect..
I agree completely. It's also annoying to see various large Android Community sites popping up, which deal with everything android, including all models, which includes HTC models... because they are invading the "mindshare", if you will, of "where does one go to get best development and mod info for android OS phones?" ... When the first Android devices were only HTC, this was not an issue, as HTC was correctly housed here and had Android devices forums added.
But yes, the whole touchscreen marketplace has erupted and fractured in the last 6 months, and it would be a bad thing, in my view, if XDA were to become relegated to a "boutique" site, that was great with SOME andorid devices, but AWOL on others.. And as the original poster notes, there is only bound to be more and more cross-device discussion and innovation developments for the whole android platform.
my 3 cents...
maati said:
I think XDA-Developers needs to be divided into a Windows Mobile and an Android section and those need to be further divided into HTC and non-HTC ones.
With more and more Android devices, and rising competition for HTC from Samsung, Motorola, Sony Ericsson etc., XDA-Developers cannot stay WM-focused and HTC-only without becoming irrelevant and losing its no.1 status for everything concerning WM and Android development.
EDIT: OR make independent, but linked together, sites for WM and Android and for different manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are most of you in favor that an independent site for Android-only devices should be made (WinMo-only devices could also be added later on to another section).
Or do you think that xda should try to change their forum around so that it will fulfill our needs?
Bavilo said:
So are most of you in favor that an independent site for Android-only devices should be made (WinMo-only devices could also be added later on to another section).
Or do you think that xda should try to change their forum around so that it will fulfill our needs?
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Click to collapse
I'm totally new to Android; have not even purchased my HERO yet. So take this with a grain of salt... but to me, I think the train already left the station... In the past three weeks as I have investigated HTC Hero, I have encountered 4 or 5 rather substantial communities already built around Android.... I will just list a few of them. Being truthful, there have been very few poll participants here... and it may well be the case that what you are envisioning as a resource already exists -- it's just not here.
So, to me, you either have to (A) turn the whole mothership around (XDA-devs) and try to make a case for why non-HTC devices should fit in more officially here (they are already accomodated "unofficially" and have been for quite some time on the WinMo side -- with tons of questions asked in many a forum about "What about the Omnia? can you release that for Omnia?" and same for Sony Xperia, as just two examples....
or (B) bridge-out to one or more of the communities already developed around modding Android phones... (but again, I am prob the wrong person to comment since I am brand new to Android... )
http://androidforums.com/
http://androidcommunity.com/forums/index.php
http://forum.androidcentral.com/
http://modmygphone.com/forums/
To me, most of those sites just feel like user communities but not any real development like here at XDA.
narunetto said:
To me, most of those sites just feel like user communities but not any real development like here at XDA.
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That's exactly what I want to change. And thanks to Craiger22 this might be possible very soon!
I do think this site needs to drop it's HTC bias to be honest. It makes choosing a new handset quite horrible. On one hand HTC devices get software support on this forum (which is still the best out there). But on the other hand there are some very nice non-HTC devices coming up. It makes choosing a handset a lot harder.
Fair enough if there's some sort of official affiliation with HTC, I can understand that. But is it not just some nostalgic bias relating to the origins of this site? That's the way I understand it anyway.
Personally there's no HTC hardware I want right now and I think that it's a shame that when I replace my X1 I will (if the HTC hardware situation remains similar to how it is now) wind up leaving this community.
1800 devices were sold this week, and I would expect that a good portion of those users will be headed here.
Again, this is just an early report from one user who just got their device, so it could be a one-off. But I would go on the assumption that they are all getting 4349, to play it safe.
To the moderators:
I would highly recommend that the development area be altered ASAP to break up the 1.1 and 1.2 ROMs. I would also recommend that a disclaimer be added to all 1.1 ROMs, including anything CM7 based, that specific steps need to be taken if a 4349 user attempts to use these ROMs. I have been asking for this since April, and I am respectively asking again.
Again, this could just be a one-off user with 4349. But given that one Woot! user has it, and new TigerDirect users have 4349 as well gives me the impression that this could be the norm for all new devices. And I think it's in XDA's best interests to prepare the development site accordingly, given what we know about 1.1 down-leveling.
To the 1.1 devs / modders:
Same request. From someone who had the opposite occur with TNT Lite 5, this is a potentially devastating situation if these users flash your 1.1 based ROM.
To new Woot! users:
You should read this first, please: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1035983 Don't jump into modding until you have confirmed what stock version you have, please.
I agree, If we can prevent a user from flashing the wrong ROM due to their bootloader, we will save many users from needless grief and reduce the number of posts for help to those who really need it.
Roebeet, sure glad to see you back posting and helping...
brookfield said:
I agree, If we can prevent a user from flashing the wrong ROM due to their bootloader, we will save many users from needless grief and reduce the number of posts for help to those who really need it.
Roebeet, sure glad to see you back posting and helping...
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Click to collapse
I think I picked the right week to do so.
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
Agreed. The SD development sections are much easier to navigate after being segregated into 1.1 and 1.2
jerdog said:
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
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Click to collapse
Isn't this a pretty basic usability issue? This would help new users, but more fundamentally it's just good organization, no?
jerdog said:
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
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Click to collapse
I kinda disagree with this statement. In other sub-forums on XDA, they require all posts in the dev section to follow guidelines on the title at the very least. Simply requiring that all posts in that section be classified the same way is all that is needed (with all the disclaimers and everything).
Example:
[Rom][1.2BL] Uber Fake Rom!!1?! (Now with extra frosted flakes) - [1.0 - 6/10/11)
Tostino said:
I kinda disagree with this statement. In other sub-forums on XDA, they require all posts in the dev section to follow guidelines on the title at the very least. Simply requiring that all posts in that section be classified the same way is all that is needed (with all the disclaimers and everything).
Example:
[Rom][1.2BL] Uber Fake Rom!!1?! (Now with extra frosted flakes) - [1.0 - 6/10/11)
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Click to collapse
And that's a good statement - if you notice those posting actual development ROMs/MODs already follow this as a rule of thumb. But it is not an XDA requirement. It has been suggested to Devs that they follow this anyways.
Clean up on "Isle 9" please. I think being structured by bootloader is a great idea. Especially since there are projects now other then Android being worked on. And in the future when Windows 8 is released.
jerdog said:
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not simply break out the ROM section, rather than put more of the onus on the developers? The developers already have enough to do with developing and will in all likelihood already advise which bootloader to use. Make it a little easier for them.
We all know that what we do is at our own risk; all that is being asked is to break the ROM section into a 1.1 and 1.2 subforum.
jerdog said:
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. The breaking into a 1.1 and a 1.2 sub-forum of the development section seems pretty much critical to avoid any unnecessary headache for XDA gTab users. Saying what you said above is like throwing a 10 year old behind the wheel of a car and saying: "You accept the risks of your own actions, so go ahead and start driving and we'll see where this leads us."
You wouldn't do that under any circumstance, so you provide "buffers" (training, mentorship, test driving, books, etc) which in our case would be the sub-forums separating boot loader types to attempt to put forth a friendly effort to help users avoid a headache.
The sub-forums would look something like this:
Android Development:
General Development (CWM, radios, tools, app dev, etc)
1.1 Bootloader Development (all 1.1 based kernels, ROMs, and misc.)
1.2 Bootloader Development (all 1.1 based kernels, ROMs, and misc.)
Not putting forth the effort to at least provide a somewhat protected atmosphere for the XDA gTab users is negligence. I have been a member of the XDA community in an observer/user fashion for much longer than my membership reflects. From my experience with XDA, I have noticed a trend on the gTab community in more recent times that is not reflected on the other device forums I have utilized (HD2, Tilt, Tilt2, G2, G1, MyTouch, and a few more that I cannot remember). The vast majority of those kept higher and more enforced standards than the gTab forums have lately, but still looked out for the users by putting certain "buffers" and preventative measures into place to try to keep users from messing up their pricey hardware due to negligence.
Yes, negligence on the user's part is their fault by not following some instructions laid out for them, but it doesn't mean that the leadership can't at a minimum provide some buffers out of a good faith gesture. I hope you don't take this in a disrespectful way or anything, just voicing my observation on things I've seen over the past few months and figured as the gTab moderator (even though you're selling yours), you'd probably want to know what the community members of your device forum are observing.
Thanks for your hard work, but this is something that's inevitable and should not be avoided or curtailed for a later date.
jerdog said:
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense, but speaking as a non-1337 who's been dealing with 1337s for years, this post sounds like the typical 1337 attitude.
Dividing up the development section into 1.1 and 1.2 will save many headaches. Noone is here to stroke anyone's ego as a 1337. We're just trying to make the process go as smoothly as possible here.
flipovich said:
I disagree. The breaking into a 1.1 and a 1.2 sub-forum of the development section seems pretty much critical to avoid any unnecessary headache for XDA gTab users. Saying what you said above is like throwing a 10 year old behind the wheel of a car and saying: "You accept the risks of your own actions, so go ahead and start driving and we'll see where this leads us."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're not talking about putting people behind a car. We're talking about people accessing a forum that is for development. Any usage of the forum and the developed solutions presented is at your own risk.
flipovich said:
You wouldn't do that under any circumstance, so you provide "buffers" (training, mentorship, test driving, books, etc) which in our case would be the sub-forums separating boot loader types to attempt to put forth a friendly effort to help users avoid a headache.
The sub-forums would look something like this:
Android Development:
General Development (CWM, radios, tools, app dev, etc)
1.1 Bootloader Development (all 1.1 based kernels, ROMs, and misc.)
1.2 Bootloader Development (all 1.1 based kernels, ROMs, and misc.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a precedent at XDA nor would it be approved. There is some segmentation under a device but that is by OS - not by a bootloader in an OS.
flipovich said:
Not putting forth the effort to at least provide a somewhat protected atmosphere for the XDA gTab users is negligence. I have been a member of the XDA community in an observer/user fashion for much longer than my membership reflects. From my experience with XDA, I have noticed a trend on the gTab community in more recent times that is not reflected on the other device forums I have utilized (HD2, Tilt, Tilt2, G2, G1, MyTouch, and a few more that I cannot remember). The vast majority of those kept higher and more enforced standards than the gTab forums have lately, but still looked out for the users by putting certain "buffers" and preventative measures into place to try to keep users from messing up their pricey hardware due to negligence.
Yes, negligence on the user's part is their fault by not following some instructions laid out for them, but it doesn't mean that the leadership can't at a minimum provide some buffers out of a good faith gesture. I hope you don't take this in a disrespectful way or anything, just voicing my observation on things I've seen over the past few months and figured as the gTab moderator (even though you're selling yours), you'd probably want to know what the community members of your device forum are observing.
Thanks for your hard work, but this is something that's inevitable and should not be avoided or curtailed for a later date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not taken as disrespectful at all. And whether or not I own the device has nothing to do with the level of effort put into the forum. It is not the role of a moderator to police the information and provide checks and balances for the users. It is the role of the developer or poster to do that. Moderators are here to keep threads on topic, keep users from trolling, cleanup spam, etc.
Developers should mark their projects as to the relevance for the user - i.e. [BL1.2] or whatever. It's important for users to be held responsible for their actions and we are a development community - not a hand-holding community.
It is also the role of users to report posts that they see as problematic to the OP and if the OP doesn't make changes then you can bring the moderators in to assist as appropriate. It's also the role of users to help keep things sorted by reporting posts that need moved elsewhere, etc. and to report those who are abusive so that they can be actioned.
My goal was not to ruffle feathers. I'm just stating my concerns and suggestions, whether they are feasible or not.
The newer 1.2 ROMs here on XDA seem to add these differences to their titles and first posts (as mentioned), but my concern is the older 1.1 ROMs, especially ones that were created before this new branch was released. For example, some of the CM7 based ROMs, and even CM7 itself, are not safe to use if you are flashing directly from 4349 stock. And I've also made suggestions in the Cyanagenmod forums, for the same reasons.
And I appreciate the suggestions and involvement. Thanks!
Thanks
I never heard of the g tablet before this week, but the TD Ebay deal was too good to pass up. I got one with 1.2-4349 on it. First thing I did was downgrade it thanks to the heads up info from this forum. With some reading was also able to put Veganginger on it. First attempt, it locked it up when rebooting after a successful install. But again, this forum was right on top of it. I followed the info for using nvflash and got back to a stock rom, ran clockwork again and installed Vegan no problem.
Not much to comment on the tablet itself yet, it just arrived yesterday, but so far its been fun just making the updates.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the info.
I've read through this thread and I do not believe a separate sub-forum is necessary. As such, I am closing this thread before the discussion becomes out of hand.
The differences between the Gtab versions lie in software alone. There is currently a method available to revert to 1.1 using nvflash in order to regain ROM compatibility with 1.1 ROMs. This, coupled with a simple warning as to which bootloader is compatible will ensure that everyone is satisfied.
In the past, we have only given separate development sub-forums for devices where a revision change is tied to a physical hardware change. As this is simply a (reversible) software difference, Jerdog has taken the correct approach by suggesting that the developers and moderators delineate which ROMs are compatible with which bootloaders.
Will Verduzco
XDA Senior Moderation Team
Why has the ''is this necessary'' thread been deleted ? and the other one locked ?
There was more people against this opening of a sub-forum than there was for it.
Please listen to us and remove this tmobile section, It isnt needed, and deleting the threads that wanted this section gone is way out of order.. We didnt break any rules..
This is our section, our phone, We dont need nor want this silly tmobile section.. So please remove it !!
If you think im wrong............Im not, Allow me to open a poll as to whether we should keep it or not ??
c'mon mods be fair ??!!??!!
It got removed because it would just start issues with other members of the forum for people who want it or not same thing with this thread.
This is the wrong section your posting in anyway.
What's so hard about looking in other section and looking in T-Mobile section.
The administrators on the site said they want it as a local moderator just spoke to them about it, Majority want it anyway.
well the poll says different... At least leave this thread for a few days and get some statistics before making a decision.
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To be fair i agree with azzle here,bit stupid to have some extra thread for tmobile..end of the day this can all be kept in the android dev section. This is daft.
suprised the mod agreed to this anyway,unless he was pm'ed by everyone asking for it,now if thats the case..then fair enough
OK people, i have re-named this thread and moved it to its proper section. I will allow this to continue, unless it turns into a flame war. We all have opinions, i ask you to respect others.
The extra dev section was asked for, and the admin gave it. Its unlikely its going to be removed, so we will have to live with it.
cheers man ! If its what the people want.. Keep it.. I just think its gunna cause so much confusion when development really gets going.. That things would have been better left how they were..
Im all up for the Q&A Section... If there happens to be differences between Tmobile and International version, I will add it to my threads FAQ section...
Reviewers said:
What's so hard about looking in other section and looking in T-Mobile section.
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Click to collapse
Whats so hard of not having that section and making double download links (as rom makers will make 2 different versions anyway).
Let the vote stay here for atleast 2 days, then you can see some "results"
Reviewers said:
It got removed because it would just start issues with other members of the forum for people who want it or not same thing with this thread.
This is the wrong section your posting in anyway.
What's so hard about looking in other section and looking in T-Mobile section.
The administrators on the site said they want it as a local moderator just spoke to them about it, Majority want it anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is, we have so little development as it is, that splitting the forum into two makes it look like we have even less development, and that could deter people away from the phone and thus more development. Both phones can use both roms so there is no point. If there are small issues such as wifi, we can have stickies.
joshnichols189 said:
The point is, we have so little development as it is, that splitting the forum into two makes it look like we have even less development, and that could deter people away from the phone and thus more development. Both phones can use both roms so there is no point. If there are small issues such as wifi, we can have stickies.
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Click to collapse
True I'm not going to argue with that cause ur right.
but It's not hard looking in both sections.
If there are incompatible features between t-mo-us and the international One S, keep them both, if not, merge them. Or at least rename it t-mo US, as t-mo has presence in other countries as well.
The second tmous thread is not needed, if the dev of the rom would simply add to there title.
[rom][sense 4.0] [tmous/EU] [NAME OF YOUR ROM][ANYTHING EXTRA AOSP/STOCK] [Updated XX/XX/XXXX]
Reviewers said:
True I'm not going to argue with that cause ur right.
but It's not hard looking in both sections.
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Click to collapse
I'm not saying it is, and I usually ventured to the Verizon side when I had a GSM Galaxy Nexus I just don't want development on this device stunted.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda premium
I am going to request another subforum for my own gsm operator. Or maybe even forum for my own mobile :what:
Seriously, this is ridiculous.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Agreed josh. I was told by senior mods that they did it because "it's what users wanted". Well, that's kind of interesting, because we're NOT wanting it, and we're those users. The initial confusion came on launch day, and that was because nobody was familiar with whether the devices differed. Guides simply need to be updated to reflect compatibility. Now, instead, we've got 2 forums, and in an attempt to alleviate the confusion, they have only caused further confusion, because now it REALLY looks like the devices are different when they are in fact NOT.
When a dev gets into modding, one of the obvious questions is "How many different devices do I have to work with here?". Based off our forum layout, it looks like we've got 2 different devices. This could lead developers to believe that there's more work to be done than necessary to achieve compatibility with both.
ndsvic suidas
I am on the fence with this one.
While I agree that if a rom developed for EU works - for the majority - and only does not function on a scale that reaches very select users, then the dual dev section is not needed.
However, in that same logic, if a rom developed that is incompatible with the counterpart phones due to whatever reason, and something happens while it was not labeled as EU/US or TMOUS or whatever tag a dev would use, then that would start a stir in the forum, IMO, deterring users from moving to this phone and potentially hurting development.
While i agree that it should be SOP to label the rom as EU or US, at the very least posting inside the thread if its for EU or US in the download links. Having a split forum this early in the development phase could hurt the growth of the phone's custom roms.
This being my second android phone, I myself am considering taking a shot at developing a custom TMOUS minimalist rom. (running as little as possible and having the bare necessities required to run the phone) Thinking of a battery saver galore build, completely Sense Free.
I came from the Nexus S, and the dev forum was split into 2 forums - 1 for the GSM Nexus S, and 1 for the CDMA Sprint Nexus S 4G.
I was a i9020T GSM model. In the very same forum, mods and devs posted ROMs for i9020T, i9020A (att), and i9023 (SLCD model , mostly overseas). Not once was there ever a problem. I just think it's kind of silly that we're being told "it's what users want", and yet we clearly don't want it, atleast the majority don't. I was told it was to help with new users, but here's the thing....this isnt newbforums.com or something. This is XDA DEVELOPERS. Enthusiasts and the tech crowd come here. I'm not saying new users don't, because we see them every day, but they've got their own issue with getting up-to-speed, and I fail to see how fragmenting the community into 2 dev forums helps alleviate the issue. Newbs will be newbs. They just have to read stuff....
Is it possible that I can agree with everyone? Probably a result of my incessant blind optimism.
Clearly, there is a divide here. Some people want the separate forum, others don't. Both arguments seem to stem from the same desire... to maximize development for their specific phones. I emphasize like crazy with you.
People that don't want the split fear that this will slow development by dividing troops and possibly give the appearance of a lesser interest from the dev community. However, having two sides essentially working on the "same" device may even prove beneficial in the end.
People that do want it are likely "we" Americans who always fear upon a devices release that there will be some minor radio variance that will cause our new, $600 baby to turn paperweight. Having a T-Mo(US) thread gives someone like me, with a lesser experience in the dev world, more confidence to take the leap into modding a device. I'm more likely to set up a dev environment, root my phone, and become more active in the community. The more people willing to get their feet wet should help everyone, regardless of continent, in the end.
Lastly, the apparent lack of interest may instead be a lack of knowledge. What other snapdragon S4 Krait phones have been released? AFAIK, there hasn't been a single device dropped with this chip, so development will be decidedly difficult until HTC makes available their GPL code. They probably aren't terribly eager to give other phone manufacturers the fruits of their labor, and money, by aiding them prep the S4 phones/tablets that will inevitably follow.
I am incredibly eager to sink my teeth into the underbelly of the one S. I can accept that for the time being, customization may likely be limited to sense-based mods, as I for one am certainly unwilling to part with what is one of the most impressive cameras ever released on a phone. But I do incredibly miss my notification pull down power switches.
majalo said:
Is it possible that I can agree with everyone? Probably a result of my incessant blind optimism.
Clearly, there is a divide here. Some people want the separate forum, others don't. Both arguments seem to stem from the same desire... to maximize development for their specific phones. I emphasize like crazy with you.
People that don't want the split fear that this will slow development by dividing troops and possibly give the appearance of a lesser interest from the dev community. However, having two sides essentially working on the "same" device may even prove beneficial in the end.
People that do want it are likely "we" Americans who always fear upon a devices release that there will be some minor radio variance that will cause our new, $600 baby to turn paperweight. Having a T-Mo(US) thread gives someone like me, with a lesser experience in the dev world, more confidence to take the leap into modding a device. I'm more likely to set up a dev environment, root my phone, and become more active in the community. The more people willing to get their feet wet should help everyone, regardless of continent, in the end.
Lastly, the apparent lack of interest may instead be a lack of knowledge. What other snapdragon S4 Krait phones have been released? AFAIK, there hasn't been a single device dropped with this chip, so development will be decidedly difficult until HTC makes available their GPL code. They probably aren't terribly eager to give other phone manufacturers the fruits of their labor, and money, by aiding them prep the S4 phones/tablets that will inevitably follow.
I am incredibly eager to sink my teeth into the underbelly of the one S. I can accept that for the time being, customization may likely be limited to sense-based mods, as I for one am certainly unwilling to part with what is one of the most impressive cameras ever released on a phone. But I do incredibly miss my notification pull down power switches.
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Click to collapse
I respect your opinion. Please email HTCdev and express your displeasure at their daily willful GPL violations. That code lawfully belongs in the hands of the open source community.
edited.
See, what we're trying to get at is that there isn't any "flash this version or that version", because there's only 1 version: the HTC One S. Unless you're flashing radios, and custom ROMs should typically NEVER have custom radios unless clearly indicated, then it doesn't matter.
And the Galaxy S was divided into subforums because the actual hardware cofigurations, button layouts, chips, etc, varied quite a bit from model to model, whether it was the international SGS, the T-Mo Vibrant, The Verizon Continuum (vastly different), or the ATT version.
The One S is a single phone, with 2 slightly different radio versions. Other than that radio, they are absolutely identical.
I'm not going to draw this out, but this site is not what it used to be. Technical discussions these days are rare jewels. I realize visitors pay the bills, but I feel like the site is on the downhill side of a slippery slope. I can't say I know what the ultimate answer is, but enforcement of the existing XDA rules would be a big step:
Stop letting nonsense get posted in the development forums. I know there are a limited number of moderators, but '[OMG][MOD] build.prop Super Ultra blah blah' nonsense should not be tolerated. Is this sorcery or development?
Enforce the ...If you didn't create 'it'... rule.
Define creating 'it.' Home-grown applications don't qualify as development, but 'kitchen' type ROMs do? Deodexing an OEM ROM using a tool developed by some else is development now?
I should stop. This post was supposed to be short. I love XDA, but I think we've lost focus and tolerated too much. Just my opinion.
I guess you missed all the town hall meetings, 10 post rule discussions, page upon page of wtf's in the mod request thread. Been going on for a while now.
bedoig said:
Enforce the ...If you didn't create 'it'... rule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Looks at your avatar....*
If everyone started enforcing that in everyday life Then Apple would be in big trouble..
Apples development process:
Does it exist? ------> Patent it, and sue the people currently building it
Is it a generic well used shape or idea? ------> Patent it, and sue the people currently using it.
Is it an abstract idea used in science fiction that we have no way of phisically crating yet --------> Patent it untill someone else does work out how to create it and then buy them out / sue them.
Dubbl standudz much?
LOLZ
needs to be a fanboy argument filter here
Would it be a good idea to maybe add some people in the XDA stuff so they can be screening what posts get posted on those threads? Kind of like someone has to approve the post first and then allow it to be posted.
bedoig said:
I'm not going to draw this out, but this site is not what it used to be. Technical discussions these days are rare jewels. I realize visitors pay the bills, but I feel like the site is on the downhill side of a slippery slope. I can't say I know what the ultimate answer is, but enforcement of the existing XDA rules would be a big step:
Stop letting nonsense get posted in the development forums. I know there are a limited number of moderators, but '[OMG][MOD] build.prop Super Ultra blah blah' nonsense should not be tolerated. Is this sorcery or development?
Enforce the ...If you didn't create 'it'... rule.
Define creating 'it.' Home-grown applications don't qualify as development, but 'kitchen' type ROMs do? Deodexing an OEM ROM using a tool developed by some else is development now?
I should stop. This post was supposed to be short. I love XDA, but I think we've lost focus and tolerated too much. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point of view. But if we (the XDA Community) dont tolarate, first attempts to do something for the others, wouldnt it be inefficient ? Some people start here with little things and later they make ROMs that anybody loves.
Themed Roms, deodexed Roms etc - should be in the Apps and Themes Section or in a collection thread Just an idea of me
needs to be a fanboy argument filter here
For starters, you could do your part too, by posting this in the CORRECT forum.
Sent from my Desire S using xda premium
So optimization of roms isn't development? Perhaps only alpha roms should be posted because it just boots on the device and everybody should just try optimize features on their own because it's too much work to make the system error free on everyone's devices. I'd then just stick to only stock roms or buy an iphone kthx.
Sent from my HD2 using xda vip edition
Hello,
As you can see I'm still new here, trying to read more than post, but as I understand, the "developing process" is a wide area incorporating all of the following processes:
* actual programming of software/firmware
* optimization of roms and/or kernels
* rom customization (app/configuration/etc wise)
* many more
While one might take part in many of the processes, others might focus on smaller parts or more specific processes (due to many different reasons), but there is absolutely no reason to look down on them. We're all (or most) here because at the end, we want the same result - a good running system.
If you have a problem with a post please report it
Thread closed
CALL FOR VOLUNTEERS, COURSE/TUTORIAL REQUESTS, & EXPERT REVIEWERS​
DEVELOPERS AND EXPERTS: with superior knowledge and or experience in procedures used to customize ROMs, and/or to write code that might be used in Apk's or ROMs for the Atrix 2 community, are hereby invited to post a message in this thread, advising me of their willingness to serve as a "SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT" for a new course or tutorial.
New courses will each begin with a working thread in the 'General' area of these forums, and when the SME decides that the material is potentially near a draft version worth publishing (eg., usable), then the moderator will be sent a request for a 'sticky' so that the original post (OP) can be fixed near the top of it's final content area (it may also be moved from the general area to another area, if the moderator deems it necessary).
INSTRUCTIONAL DESIGNERS AND eLEARNING PROFESSIONALS: If by some fortunate circumstances, you are a skilled instructional designer, then you may also volunteer to participate in the development of the content, and should likewise post your intentions in this thread, to either help with a course under current development or else suggest a new one.
ANDROID ENTHUSIASTS AND JUNIOR DEVELOPERS: who are eager to move up to the next level of participation in the Android community, and begin assisting the senior developers here, are welcome to make requests in this thread, for new courses and tutorials. However, if you are not able to contribute back to the community anything other than your request, you should at least be ready to support your request with a well-composed argument and hopefully some starting material which could be used to seed the initial course development and customization to the Atrix 2 platform.
----------------------------------------------------------------
TUTORIAL REQUESTS:
(coming soon)
TUTORIAL COMPLETED:
(coming soon)
TUTORIAL'S UNDER DEVELOPMENT:
(coming soon)
EXPERT DEVELOPERS (SME's):
(coming soon)
INSTRUCTIONAL DESIGNERS:
(coming soon)
CURRENT ASSIGNMENTS:
(coming soon)
I for one really like the sound of this!
I like the idea of having more learning material, however I think it is going to be very hard for you to write up something you don't know about. I would say you should do some learning yourself to become better with the subject before trying.
I too like the sound of more tutorials and people digging in to their phones and learning new things.. but, I, for one (if I had a vast knowledge about dev'ing/modding and something specific to write about), would probably rather try to gather the scattered thoughts in my head and keep drafting and rewriting it as I go along. But that might just be me..
Again, great thought and topic - and I always respect your decorum and writing skills - but seems like it'd be a lot if trouble to have a ghostwriter, for someone like me at least.. (again, I'm sure I'm not the guy you had in mind, but... those are my thoughts)
EDIT: There is a lot of material out there, on xda and other sites - some specific to device or andriod version, some just general good info - and deodexing and zip-aligning are basically done for you by the kitchen..
Sent from my mind using XDA
I also LOVE this idea. Count me in for some of the Android low level and AOSP SME stuff, like kernel dev how to and AOSP how-to.
jimbridgman said:
I also LOVE this idea. Count me in for some of the Android low level and AOSP SME stuff, like kernel dev how to and AOSP how-to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
speaking of AOSP, is it possible to build up from AOSP source for the A2, or can you only do that with a custom kernel
EDIT: count me in too. If Jim says it is a good idea, then it is.
EDIT AGAIN: I am not an expert, but I could certainly do the basics that people need to know for getting into rom development
"Lost in Translation"
lkrasner said:
I like the idea of having more learning material, however I think it is going to be very hard for you to write up something you don't know about. I would say you should do some learning yourself to become better with the subject before trying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the model that is currently considered 'best' (in comparison to other methods) for providing content that others can quickly grasp in most cases. Think of my function as being a 'translator', in that you will be able to digest the content much more easily if it is presented in a language that fits your vernacular with perfect symmetry, vice a series of crude ideograms.
Haven't you ever been frustrated by poor grammar, or conceptual transition that flows with such a fragmented series of black holes, it's like someone is flipping a light switch on and off while you try to make your way through an obstacle course? My field of training focuses on filling the gaps that cause those frustrating stumbling blocks to effective instruction. That kind of instruction means focusing on the audience, and how they think, not just thinking about the subject matter itself (the domain of the SME).
lkrasner said:
EDIT: count me in too. If Jim says it is a good idea, then it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True..
And, I would definitely love to see some good AOSP and kernel building materials..
@PR - Feel free to ask me about any "low-level" modding/themeing/building things or let me know how I could contribute...
PRichardson said:
This is the model that is currently considered 'best' (in comparison to other methods) for providing content that others can quickly grasp in most cases. Think of my function as being a 'translator', in that you will be able to digest the content much more easily if it is presented in a language that fits your vernacular with perfect symmetry, vice a series of crude ideograms.
Haven't you ever been frustrated by poor grammar, or conceptual transition that flows with such a fragmented series of black holes, it's like someone is flipping a light switch on and off while you try to make your way through an obstacle course? My field of training focuses on filling the gaps that cause those frustrating stumbling blocks to effective instruction. That kind of instruction means focusing on the audience, and how they think, not just thinking about the subject matter itself (the domain of the SME).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess this makes perfect sense when you think about it. Sorry I doubted you. I would love to help out here, and I think having some people that are not complete experts is helpful too, because they understand things differently then the true dev gods like Jim. I think I can provide you with a lot of the basics and FAQs and stuff about what rom development is and how to get started with and set up for it. Jim can do the crazy advanced stuff that no one else in the world understands, and others can fill in the gap.
PRichardson said:
This is the model that is currently considered 'best' (in comparison to other methods) for providing content that others can quickly grasp in most cases. Think of my function as being a 'translator', in that you will be able to digest the content much more easily if it is presented in a language that fits your vernacular with perfect symmetry, vice a series of crude ideograms.
Haven't you ever been frustrated by poor grammar, or conceptual transition that flows with such a fragmented series of black holes, it's like someone is flipping a light switch on and off while you try to make your way through an obstacle course? My field of training focuses on filling the gaps that cause those frustrating stumbling blocks to effective instruction. That kind of instruction means focusing on the audience, and how they think, not just thinking about the subject matter itself (the domain of the SME).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to serve as guinea pig for this, the whole idea sounds excellent to me!!! the only problem is that at this moment i don't have much time to spare on learning android dev. I work with Java and xml every day and basically what it's stopping me from getting into the dev scene it's the time, but maybe i can help searching stuff like topics or any other subject require to do this. My point is that i want to contribute with something even if is small stuff.
Although I'm all for good reference materials, I'll even sticky it if I see good organized information, please post in the correct forum. This goes for any resources you make. Moved to General.
Cheers
Possible Volunteer Assignments
jimbridgman said:
I also LOVE this idea. Count me in for some of the Android low level and AOSP SME stuff, like kernel dev how to and AOSP how-to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool.
Ok, I think this represents a sufficiently positive response to warrant suggesting some initial planning decisions.
"deodexing and zip-aligning are basically done for you by the kitchen.." --> this is true. However, I have been through some of that material, and it's a bit thin in detail. There is nothing like a set of sceencaps and/or video to reassure people that 'all is right with the world' the first time they step into the kitchen and fire up the grill, and again, reworking some of the content that's already 'in the wild' to focus on the A2 will require less work than starting from scratch, while still benefiting our specific community interests.
So, I think the first order of business is deciding what should be done, and who will be involved. Thus far it seems we have two volunteer 'subject matter experts' (SME's):
SME: Jim Bridgman
.
COURSE LIST:
Kernel Dev HowTo
AOSP HowTo
SME: alteredlikeness
.
COURSE LIST:
Modding HowTo
Theming HowTo
Building ? HowTo
UNASSIGNED COURSES:
Deodexing via Kitchen
Zipaligning via Scripts
Safestrap Hacking
SUGGESTED ROLES
SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS (SME):
.
Qualifications:
Have previously successfully completed full procedure at least once (hopefully numerous times) for any course they are serving as SME for.
Understand consequences, and potential recovery procedures (if any) for failure or user error at each level or step of procedure for which they are SME.
Are able to answer questions related to "why" each action is needed, as well as "how" it acheives the intended result, for each procedure they serve as SME for.
Have a conceptual understanding of java programming methods, classes, and the android framework, if they are serving as SME for advanced code and dev courses.
Responsibilities:
Proofread content for technical or factual errors
Answer questions related to content or procedures
Make recommendations for conceptual material for reuse, editing, or starting material.
Make recommendations for content coverage (new courses)
INSTRUCTIONAL DESIGNERS:
.
Qualifications:
A graduate degree in instructional design or instructional technology or at least 5 years of professional experience as an instructional designer or instructional technologist or distance education coordinator or distance education instructor.
Responsibilities:
Use recommended content as starting materials to create re-targeted curriculum focused on the Atrix 2
Revise, edit, and 'fill in' current content with visual aids (screen captures, diagrams, flow charts, graphics) as well as well-formatted outlines for easy navigation and review
Update and correct content as directed by SME's
Any course suggestions? Should we proceed to possible course outlines? How does this sound thus far?
This. Is. AWESOME. Totally looking forward to reading...
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Creating Sticky Posts: One per Course
prbassplayer said:
Although I'm all for good reference materials, I'll even sticky it if I see good organized information, please post in the correct forum. This goes for any resources you make
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks prbassplayer! (will do ;-)
Unless you have any alternative recommendations (?), I will probably begin by setting up a working thread (one per course/tutorial), in the 'General' area.
Then, when it seems that a usable draft is near, which might actually benefit someone, I will PM you for a decision on whether to sticky it, and also possibly to decide on whether to leave it in general or move it somewhere else appropriate to the content.
Thanks!,
Paul
you want me to do a write up on the getting started stuff. I know what I am doing, Im just not on the same level as Jim.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Never mind. Mis read the meaning of this thread.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
PRichardson said:
Any course suggestions? Should we proceed to possible course outlines? How does this sound thus far?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol'ing - sounds like a lot of work, and like things are getting serious...
Right on, though.. it could be a nice community effort.
PRichardson said:
SME: alteredlikeness
.
COURSE LIST:
Modding HowTo
Theming HowTo
Building ? HowTo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's flattering and all, but there are much more knowledgeable and/or diversely skilled themers and builders here than I... ahem, JRW, rdavisct...
I got some subtle skills - but let's hope a few others contribute as well, if this idea takes off..
As I jokingly said above, it will be a lot of work - and I assume a lot of us don't have the time we would like to dedicate to our own creations, let alone a full blown 5 page [TUTORIAL] with questions and answers.
But, I like your ambition, and I'll do what I can to help..
Getting Started with Android Dev for Atrix 2
lkrasner said:
you want me to do a write up on the getting started stuff. I know what I am doing, Im just not on the same level as Jim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi lkrasner,
That is a great idea. However, in order to prevent spending time that does not focus where it will benefit our community goals the most, I think it might be a good idea to first solidify the plans before we get to the 'doing'.
At this point, I would prefer to have a little bit of feedback on what we are going to do, before we start doing it.
So, if you could write up and post a very brief outline of the course or tutorial you have in mind, then let the community provide some feedback (or rather, see if there is even a response at all), that will give us a good idea on how much time/effort you personally want to invest, and keep our expectations more realistic on how useful it is to anyone else.
This is just my perspective, of course ;-)
~p
Quid Quo Pro
alteredlikeness said:
...That's flattering and all, but there are much more knowledgeable and/or diversely skilled themers and builders here than I... ahem, JRW, rdavisct...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will always be true. But you are reading this now, and the onus of the call is yours at this moment, and you have answered -- that is all I can ask, and all I hope for.
it will be a lot of work - and I assume a lot of us don't have the time we would like to dedicate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not think this is true at all. The model I am using here, relies heavily upon content that already exists, and focuses more on simply updating it, targeting it to the A2 phone, and of course, improving it's effectiveness with better organization, more detail, and the addition of visual aids.
The most demanding (if that word is even fitting) part this work on the part of the SME, would be the careful READING of a 1 to 5 page document made up mostly of bulleted phrases or sentences and images (I'm assuming most procedures will be short, and that the bulk of space usage will be due to large graphics). Of course, it's always much easier to quickly read through something and spot any technical errors when you are ALREADY AN EXPERT on that content or procedure.
In summary then, I think this is the equivalent of a tiny spec of dust that is to be flicked off one's shoulder, compared to the enormous effort that every single day is voluntarily accomplished by the thousands of developers involved in large-scale open source projects such as Linux itself.
~p
PRichardson said:
Thanks prbassplayer! (will do ;-)
Unless you have any alternative recommendations (?), I will probably begin by setting up a working thread (one per course/tutorial), in the 'General' area.
Then, when it seems that a usable draft is near, which might actually benefit someone, I will PM you for a decision on whether to sticky it, and also possibly to decide on whether to leave it in general or move it somewhere else appropriate to the content.
Thanks!,
Paul
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly know very little about this device. I mess with more with Samsung and a little with HTC. I'm computer less at the moment and making a useful search with a phone has proven to be less useful more pain in the but so I can't look up any old threads to see what's there and what's needed. But basically theming, how to take a stock rom and making it your own (themes, deodexing, etc). Building from source (if applicable) roms and kernels. I'm just a moderator and although I'm decently knowledgeable on a hand full of devices I'm no expert .
Cheers
Sent from my ICS powered I897 using Tapatalk 2