Database Info

Xda Dev "free Noob Support"

As im sitting here at work reading posts i cant help but notice the redundant questions asked by new users with 1-8 post counts. Anywere you go you typically have to pay for tech support. In my opinion people are seeing all you can do with a WIN-MO device and taking advantage of the site. The info is there and all you have to do is search for a couple of minutes. Its really frustrating reading about tom-tom, how to install a .cab, how do I flash a rom, I never mind helping someone, but they have to be willing to learn, and 9 times out of 10 they just want somone to do it for them. I have even seen numerous people go to the extent of creating step-by-step videos and dedicated threads explaining EVERY single possibility and how to do it. But the fact remains still redundant threads. I have an idea, i dont know if this is possible, but make a new member watch a video and take a quiz and if they pass then access granted. Anyway im rambling on but thats my feelings.

I think we all know WM is not the easiest OS to use, and the extent of its power just means there are more opportunities for users to get lost and confused.
I think if we want to continue to benefit from the network effect of having many new users we need to continue supporting the very same users.
Some forums take this principle to heart, and welcome new users, and encourage new users to ask questions by giving points to people who provide answers, and buttons to give thanks etc.
I've used PPC's for 7 years now, and have been helped many times by the amazing experts in this forum. I am thankful its a friendly place, and hope that will long continue.
Surur

The issue of newbies asking "1000 times" questions has been raised before.
This is no longer a small technical forum as it used to be in the past (I guess it is our own fault and the price of fame).
However it was decided not to limit registration and participation on this forum.
There are other closed forums which admit people based on skill or posts reputation.
Please note that if you run in to such noob threads and you do not feel like helping just ignore them.
Noob bashing brings no positive results.

[Q] mining FAQs from thanks in posts

I am a fairly new user in here and one problem that i can clearly see is that there is no easy way to solve your problems by searching and digging through the existing posts. The first rule invariably for anyone posting a question is to ensure the question has not be asked AND ANSWERED already somewhere by someone but then the answers may sometimes not clarify all the doubts in your mind and replies in old threads sometimes don't get a favorable response.. i.e, sometimes the question could look repetitive but the answer needs to be contextual. build numbers, geographical builds, worries about voiding warranties etc do create concerns which can be slightly different for each user.
another issue is that, if you found another person asking the same question who never got an answer, you are forced to ask the question again in a new thread in an attempt to catch the eye of a good Samaritan...
I believe one of the reasons that the same questions are asked again and again is because it is faster and more importantly, with new members joining everyday, newer users are not averse to helping out someone asking the same question for the nth time. The reasons usually are that they are trying to get some posts going and to earn a few thanks along the way and maybe feel good about having shared their new found knowledge to help someone.
i wont be surprised if many senior members are also answering repetitive questions over and over again because it would probably take a sentence to provide the solution and 4 sentences to swear at the person for posting the question for the gazillionth time . I have seen many an instance of users doing both, i.e. swear at the person and provide the solution
Getting to the real question in my mind...
would it be at all possible to mine the database based on thanks (clicks as well as in replies) to build some kind of a quick and dirty dynamic FAQ list that people can look into before posting afresh? I am assuming that someone would only go to the extent of thanking a fellow user only if that person genuinely solved his/her problem or even pointed in the right direction.
such a dynamically generated FAQ list could have a feature where by future users could vote up or down an entry based on usefulness and also mark an entry as a duplicate so that the system could automatically remove entries from the list when the dupe count goes beyond a certain value to ensure rogue users don't knock off legitimate entries. it could maybe support things such as tags to create a taxonomy to drill down my manufacturer model, related model etc..
just thinking aloud...
not to mention hoping to catch somebody's attention.....

Postcount Challenge Question - A suggestion.

In the thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1069298
The admins posed this challenge:
For lack of a better alternative. I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative, and share it with us.
After goodness knows how much time under this username, and a bit under another (which I also didn't post with) I have to admit that now when I was finally ready to share something with the community (specific to the Motorola Photon) that I ran into this well intended, but somewhat counterproductive at times limit.
The admins acknowledge this:
We get that people might have experience from other fora and think this is a little over the top for them, but there are rarely any developers amongst the people that want to create new threads. There are a few people with a genuine need to post a thread in the developmental fora (developers), these people can contact a moderator to help them get sorted.
However, I have very little time and don't plan to find a mod, convince them I'm legit, etc just to share something that doesn't benefit me (harsh, but true). I make custom ROMs and other bits for my own private use as I device hop every couple of months and don't share them, really, ever because I don't want to support anything (or risk liability in any way). Sometimes I'll run other people's work (CM rocks), but more often I'll try to do something hybrid or unique. I'm using the time I would have spent posting trying to contribute to the community in another way, this message.
So... that's all just context for my suggestion answering the admin's challenge.
When doing a "can user post" check and determining posting has not already been verified do the following
Pull the account creation date, pick an age (say 6 months) and older for additional checking. Accounts younger than 6 months get rejected like everyone does now
Display a page stating "Determining eligibility" and force them to fill out a CAPTCHA of some sort
Pull the page, section or forum access logs. Since I don't know what is stored, I don't know what can be pulled. However, if User created his account 2 years ago and has accessed 4 main areas, and 6 subtopics he's probably not spam. Continue checking
Flag users somehow when they visit developer forums. If I have only visited a single device's development forum, even if the account is 2 years old, maybe additional checking is warranted, maybe not. If I've hit 3 or more devices in a measurable way in that 3 years though, chances are I'm not a noob
Based on some calculation of forums visited, decrease the amount of posts needed to gain dev forum posting access (or waive it altogehter)
Looping in data about files downloaded would be useful here too. In practical terms this means more site tracking of users, which raises space concerns. My recommendation is not to track every page, only increment a specific dev forum counter for number of unique pages visited, one for pages revisited (as if you are checking on updates for a ROM) and files downloaded
Based on the above, you should have a workable experience driven decrement system by which posting access can either be granted or made easier for users who are legitimately competent to post in the dev areas.
Also, I thought I should post these non-development specific reasons to post in the development forums:
- Adding money to a bounty (such as the bounty to get the Motorola Photon's GSM unlocked for US Domestic Towers)
- Providing output from something they were requested to by devs (error messages, radio versions, etc).
That's pretty much it, but both can be useful. Might not have gotten Galaxy Tabs in the US unlocked for Voice and Data without people posting dumps after all, as I recall (not that they worked all that well, or on all carriers, but hey).
I will try to make it back to xda in the next couple of days or weeks to answer any questions this thread might engender but my time and attention is spotty so no promises. Please don't flame me, or send me nasty PM's. Or any PM's really - I literally just read a PM from 6 years ago on another forum I frequent. I never think to check them. If you want to contact me in a way that doesn't involve XDA, use Twitter. I'm ardosi, obviously.
Hope this is a marginally useful suggestion and not overly long winded
---------- Post added at 01:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 AM ----------
I will add one more thing... the increment system should be over time. So, someone with a 2yr old account can't just visit a dozen forums in an evening and be able to post. It's the persistant, ongoing access to multiple forums, revisiting some of the same threads and regular downloads from the dev section that should be giving the indication that this is *probably* not someone who is clueless.
It's all risk management obviously, but with some devices having very little developer activity at all, it would be nice to lean a little bit more towards allowing additional posting.

ardosi said:
In the thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1069298
The admins posed this challenge:
For lack of a better alternative. I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative, and share it with us.
After goodness knows how much time under this username, and a bit under another (which I also didn't post with) I have to admit that now when I was finally ready to share something with the community (specific to the Motorola Photon) that I ran into this well intended, but somewhat counterproductive at times limit.
The admins acknowledge this:
We get that people might have experience from other fora and think this is a little over the top for them, but there are rarely any developers amongst the people that want to create new threads. There are a few people with a genuine need to post a thread in the developmental fora (developers), these people can contact a moderator to help them get sorted.
However, I have very little time and don't plan to find a mod, convince them I'm legit, etc just to share something that doesn't benefit me (harsh, but true). I make custom ROMs and other bits for my own private use as I device hop every couple of months and don't share them, really, ever because I don't want to support anything (or risk liability in any way). Sometimes I'll run other people's work (CM rocks), but more often I'll try to do something hybrid or unique. I'm using the time I would have spent posting trying to contribute to the community in another way, this message.
So... that's all just context for my suggestion answering the admin's challenge.
When doing a "can user post" check and determining posting has not already been verified do the following
Pull the account creation date, pick an age (say 6 months) and older for additional checking. Accounts younger than 6 months get rejected like everyone does now
Display a page stating "Determining eligibility" and force them to fill out a CAPTCHA of some sort
Pull the page, section or forum access logs. Since I don't know what is stored, I don't know what can be pulled. However, if User created his account 2 years ago and has accessed 4 main areas, and 6 subtopics he's probably not spam. Continue checking
Flag users somehow when they visit developer forums. If I have only visited a single device's development forum, even if the account is 2 years old, maybe additional checking is warranted, maybe not. If I've hit 3 or more devices in a measurable way in that 3 years though, chances are I'm not a noob
Based on some calculation of forums visited, decrease the amount of posts needed to gain dev forum posting access (or waive it altogehter)
Looping in data about files downloaded would be useful here too. In practical terms this means more site tracking of users, which raises space concerns. My recommendation is not to track every page, only increment a specific dev forum counter for number of unique pages visited, one for pages revisited (as if you are checking on updates for a ROM) and files downloaded
Based on the above, you should have a workable experience driven decrement system by which posting access can either be granted or made easier for users who are legitimately competent to post in the dev areas.
Also, I thought I should post these non-development specific reasons to post in the development forums:
- Adding money to a bounty (such as the bounty to get the Motorola Photon's GSM unlocked for US Domestic Towers)
- Providing output from something they were requested to by devs (error messages, radio versions, etc).
That's pretty much it, but both can be useful. Might not have gotten Galaxy Tabs in the US unlocked for Voice and Data without people posting dumps after all, as I recall (not that they worked all that well, or on all carriers, but hey).
I will try to make it back to xda in the next couple of days or weeks to answer any questions this thread might engender but my time and attention is spotty so no promises. Please don't flame me, or send me nasty PM's. Or any PM's really - I literally just read a PM from 6 years ago on another forum I frequent. I never think to check them. If you want to contact me in a way that doesn't involve XDA, use Twitter. I'm ardosi, obviously.
Hope this is a marginally useful suggestion and not overly long winded
---------- Post added at 01:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 AM ----------
I will add one more thing... the increment system should be over time. So, someone with a 2yr old account can't just visit a dozen forums in an evening and be able to post. It's the persistant, ongoing access to multiple forums, revisiting some of the same threads and regular downloads from the dev section that should be giving the indication that this is *probably* not someone who is clueless.
It's all risk management obviously, but with some devices having very little developer activity at all, it would be nice to lean a little bit more towards allowing additional posting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i totally agree. the newly registered would think twice when posting clutters. they would have to wait all over again as the result is punishment.

Mod Note: Why region specific threads are not allowed.

With the general feeling of disappointment (and even hate) around, I thought I'll take this moment out to thoroughly explain what has been done, and why it has been done.
Have a look at the list below:
Singapore Galaxy S4
Australian Galaxy S4 owners thread
Pakistani Galaxy S4 Owners Thread
Brazilian Galaxy S4 Thread
Galaxy S4 Philippines
Bangladesh Galaxy S4
Indian Galaxy S4 Owners Thread
[malaysian i9500/i9505 thread]
Ireland/UK Galaxy S4 Thread
Lebanese Galaxy S4 Thread
Sweden S4 Thread
Now ask yourself these questions:
Do you actually need these many country threads?
There are 190+ countries in the world, and with a global launch for the S4, does each and every country require it's own thread? If you answer "No", then you are biased in thinking that country A needs a thread whereas country B doesn't.
And what's to say that a single thread is sufficient per country? For example, my own state is larger in area and population than many European nations. So why shouldn't I have my own state thread? The state itself is too big, and a city based thread would be more localized. Maybe I, as a user, should create one. Or maybe a locality based one would solve all my woes.
The question here is, at what point do we draw the line? This is no easy question to answer, because try as much as we may, no one solution will please all.
Yes, we understand that when the phone launches (even during pre-launch), there is general excitement and frenzy all over. And at these times, such threads become helpful. They allow people to gather information at the time when there is no clear answer with everybody. The device is relatively new, and people are ignorant of what the best deal may be.
Fast forward to two months after launch. Do you still require region specific threads? Wouldn't it be easier if you just paid a visit to your local market or your online store to find out the current market prices, check the online review stores for the best set of accessories, contact your provider's Customer Service to find out their LTE rollout plans, etc?
XDA is not the answer to everything. Yes, a lot of people rely on researching the forum to see if there are hardware/software issues before they buy a new device. But to say that the sole purpose they joined was to find the best contract they can avail from Three, then I must say, they joined for the wrong reasons.
We aren't a consumer oriented website. We are a developer's website, but we do allow plenty of leeway to non-developers. We realize that everybody starts small, and we really appreciate the people who actually take the efforts to start. But certain things are better considered as "privileges" and not "rights".
"They shouldn't have closed down the threads. They weren't useless."
- I honestly doubt if any moderator has called any of those threads as useless. Even in my closing posts, I have acknowledged the fact that the team considers these threads as useful. It's just that, they have served their time well, and all of them have started pointing towards the more generic topics of discussion, and hence, needed to be retired from duty. [Example: In a bunch of threads, the conversation topic was the latest firmware that dropped in another country thousands of kilometres away.] Essentially, people were talking the same things, but in different groups.
"You call yourself a community. Yet you do not allow communities to exist"
- We at XDA, are a community in ourselves. When people further attempt to create communities in the open fora, they are in fact dividing the existing one. We do not need this type of segregation, when there no longer exists need of one.
How many Malaysian users frequented the Indian thread, or how many Brazilian users helped around in the Philippines thread? (Just examples used to drive the point across). People can still roam around, but do they?
"These threads helped newbie's to start with their device. The people are really helpful, and answer any questions asked."
- Yes, again, Fact Acknowledged and a virtual pat on the back for everyone who helped :good:
But isn't that the purpose with which the "[HELP THREAD] Galaxy S4 | Ask any question | Noob friendly." thread (and the Q&A section at large) was made? Imagine, if people from one community are so helpful, if everyone chimed in and helped people around, you'd actually be increasing your scope from inter-region to international.
You see a question asked, and you have the knowledge and will, you answer it, irrespective of the user being from your country or not, asking in your thread or not. If you see someone genuinely taking efforts to help someone else out, you hit the "thanks" button for them and give them a pinch of motivation
TL;DR, things don't need to be restricted to your subscribed threads. There's a largely unexplored forum out there, waiting for you.
As a matter of fact, the early bunch of pm's I received after the closures were made, were people who thought/assumed that only their own thread was closed. They failed to notice at that moment that a bunch of them were closed at the same time.
People who frequently roam around the General subfora would even acknowledge the fact that the threads had started to clog. The regional threads notice a high turnover and this results in all of them sitting at page one. This barely leaves room for other threads to be noticed.
The S4 had ~13 regional threads, and as per the forecasted trend, the Note 3 would have touched 20 regional threads by this time in its product cycle. The threads are made under the general moniker of "Availabilty and Deals", but a lot of them end up being "me-too" type threads. Country A has it, so country B should do too.
Question again, where do we draw the line?
It is also disappointing to hear the tone in some of the pm's. Much more disappointing is the fact that people call us "fascist" and compare us moderators with controversial historical figures, while all we are doing is trying to manage a forum while having a broader line of sight. Have we really wronged you so much by closing a thread, so as to be deserving of such hate?
No, we do not ban people just because they questioned a moderator's action. We simply request you to be polite and do it via pm, not as public posts. We are tolerant and will accept constructive criticism as feedback.
We haven't taken any action against misue of "official" in thread titles, while we could have very well infracted the erring OP's on misrepresentation and action without authorization. We can and we should have, but have we done so? No, we haven't. And this by itself is a testimony to the fact that we are tolerant to a really large extent.
Then you have posts like "Moderators are stupid, they don't know how to manage", which are no better than the newbie's post in a dev thread which says "My wifi broke. Fix it" without any additional details. Where is the constructive criticism in this? At the very least, work with us to solve the issues. Simply escalating problems isn't good for the community and might even worsen the situation.
Again, we are emphasizing the fact that these threads were useful. But the decision to close down a large number of these was one of the toughest ones that we have ever taken. As mentioned previously, it has been discussed to death. All possibilities, angles, point-of-views, were taken in mind before we came to a conclusion. Decisions aren't just abruptly taken.
In fact, the right decision isn't always the most popular one, as we have experienced here firsthand. We aren't looking around for threads to close in other devices as of yet. But if the need arises, and decision is to be made, then decision shall be made (on case by case basis).
In future devices, these threads aren't "banned" per se. Users are still free to create one when the device is just born/young. But do bear in mind that sometime in the future, they may get closed.
As for the Galaxy S4, this is the end of regional threads (except the ones exempted on hardware differences). Any more threads/retakes will not be allowed in the subfora. Please respect this decision.
"What do we do know?"
- As my teammates have mentioned (and as has been discussed via pm with some of you), the Social Groups feature of XDA is vastly left unutilized. You are free to create your own country, city, toy club groups. And as long as things remain within the forum rules there, they shall be allowed. Talk OT, availability, accessories, whatever you wish. Just abide by the forum rules, and report in case of problems That is all we ask :good:
If you pm me the link of the XDA social group that you have created for your country thread (provided one doesn't exist already), I'll edit the closing post and direct users towards them :good:
"Will you place links to our groups made on popular social networking sites?"
- I'm afraid we can't do that. We restrict ourselves to things concerning XDA.
We hope this clears up a lot of questions that people had in mind.
Thank you for your patience and co-operation
Moderator Team
Samsung International

Opinion - Developer's Forum Misuse

Back in March when joining XDA, I asked a few questions in the developer's forum out of sincere desire to learn some things.
A moderator quickly directed me towards the appropriate areas to do my own homework. It was also conveyed in understandable terms that comportment was expected in the developer's forum.
For those who may not know what "comportment" means, it pertains to keeping conduct within the scope of where you're at. In order words, keep topics in the development forum focused on development.
Have those sheriffs been on holiday?
You moderators did me a great favor by steering me in the direction where I could do my own homework, dig out the essentials, learn how to work with Android ROMs and avoid dumb mistakes (much less, whine after a dirty flash *lol*).
Smack posts in the developer forum will do nothing but run off (or run underground) some incredible developers. That will only lessen the benefits of delivery to us as users. These developers who give free time and work do NOT have time to waste sifting through a pile of developer forum bologna to find any meat of substance that can benefit their efforts ... and us.
Note: This is NOT being posted in the developer's forum. This is not a solicited post. This is a post of gratitude and respect for this site.

Posting an issue in the developer's forum without taking the time to read through (or use the search tool, which is faster) and see whether that issue has already been posted numerous times, comes across as laziness. And by not reading through, much can be missed that may already contribute to that issue.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

But you can give him a KitKat.

Thanks.
Thread closed.