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[Opinion] Surface RT is as good as it gets... but. If you're on the fence, read!

I began to pre-order a Surface RT and after looking at the comparison between RT and Pro, I backed out. After the Surface started shipping I read two conflicting reviews from blog sites that I read often. This reinforced my opinion to wait for Pro.
A few days ago I wandered into a MS popup store and played with it. I also found out that MS offers a no-restock 14 day return policy, so not much risk.
Some of the negatives I've read:
- thin keyboard cover - keyboard is bad, trackpad sucks. In my opinion so far - the keyboard and trackpad are both fantastic. I wish the trackpad as a slippery surface but other than that, it's great.
- screen resolution stinks. Well, by the numbers that's true - it's nothing to write home about, however, as with the Lumia 900 (also a low screen resolution), the OS is really optimized for large, vivid text and clean graphics which in many ways masks the low resolution. I honestly did not find myself missing more pixels
- limited app selection - this one is absolutely true, however there are a number out and more coming, but it is a good reason to pause and think carefully
Based on my experience so far, it's my opinion that if you want a tablet, you probably don't want the Surface Pro. That's right, the Pro. The RT may be the right device.
Why?
- the Pro is almost twice as thick
- the Pro is a half-pound heavier
- battery life? who knows
- battery life/performance balance could prove to be a challenge with WIn 8 Pro
- virus protection, spyware/malware scanners come back into play and take up processor cycles and may suck battery
Despite not having "full Windows", why do I like the Surface RT?
- thin
- light
- SD card slot
- full USB port
- video out (VGA or HDMI)
- Bluetooth
- Office 2013
- Support for LinkedIn, FB, Exchange, Google, and MS accounts (with very clean integration for contacts, calendar, and messaging
I've used a hard stylus on a tablet before (Galaxy Note and Xyboard 10.1). I can tell you that I've most frequently used a stylus to interact with smaller icons on the screen. It was never hyper-accurate enough for real drawing. For that, I'd need a Wacom tablet. Not having a stylus with the RT is not a loss for me, and the whole UI is designed for fingers and a keyboard. I don't see the application for a stylus.
So what do I think is missing?
For me, really only one thing... the Juniper Junos Pulse client. I was able to get the installer but it won't install because it's not an ARM-friendly installer file. That's the only thing I'd love to have an x86 emulator for. Other than that, I'm happy so far. Lots more testing to do this week.
All in all though I find the Surface RT to be a great piece of kit, and probably a better main stream device than the Pro. Even putting aside the price, I think the size/weight will make it less appealing for most.
My perfect match is a dull desktop system running Win 7, and the Surface RT. I just hope that more mainstream app developers will get on board quickly.
I suppose only time will tell.

I also think its worth a note that the pro will likely cost around (uk) £800 - £900 and if you are going fo that much and want full blown windows etc its worth looking at the Sony Vaio duo. I played with it for quite some time in store and I am fully in love. Its big and heavy for a tablet but its far more powerful and has a much more useable keyboard. I really recommend anyone who can spend that much take a real look at it as it makes the surface pro look like a toy.

I think you two have summed it up perfectly. After installing Win8 Pro on my 6 month old latop this weekend I've come round to the idea that an RT tablet does the job of a tablet perfectly, with the current limitation of app variety. I have a desktop which is just used for gaming, laptop and ipad.
I can see me changing the ipad for a Surface RT. keeping Win 8 pro on the laptop, Win 7 on the desktop.

A few more points:
RT still allows Flash in the browser, running software as Admin, scripting with CMD or Powershell, unlocking for sideloading, and using system utilities like Disk Management (if you're feeling bold, you can reclaim a few gigs of storage by nuking the Recovery partition and extending the OS partition into it).
RT really does get great battery life. I mean, seriously excellent. Microoft's 8-hour estimate is, if anything, possibly a bit conservative. I was able to simultaneously play music (streamed over WiFi), copy a ton of files from my main box (13GB of music), and browse the web at the same time, and the battery drain during that time was... about 12%/hour. That's 8 hours of heavy usage, not just everyday stuff. 3 hours of Skype call, historically a horrifically battery-draining app, took maybe 40% of the battery.
Surface RT has no moving parts internally. No fans, in particular. The Surface Pro isn't actually anywhere near twice as thick (it's about 4mm more, I think; that's less than 50% thicker) but it will need to have fans, and to vent heat. MS did a very neat design where it vents all around the rim, instead of making a single hot spot, but still...
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT. Aside from putting our own OS on the hardware, Surface is already pretty well jailbroken, and we're just barely getting started!

GoodDayToDie said:
A few more points:
RT still allows Flash in the browser, running software as Admin, scripting with CMD or Powershell, unlocking for sideloading, and using system utilities like Disk Management (if you're feeling bold, you can reclaim a few gigs of storage by nuking the Recovery partition and extending the OS partition into it).
RT really does get great battery life. I mean, seriously excellent. Microoft's 8-hour estimate is, if anything, possibly a bit conservative. I was able to simultaneously play music (streamed over WiFi), copy a ton of files from my main box (13GB of music), and browse the web at the same time, and the battery drain during that time was... about 12%/hour. That's 8 hours of heavy usage, not just everyday stuff. 3 hours of Skype call, historically a horrifically battery-draining app, took maybe 40% of the battery.
Surface RT has no moving parts internally. No fans, in particular. The Surface Pro isn't actually anywhere near twice as thick (it's about 4mm more, I think; that's less than 50% thicker) but it will need to have fans, and to vent heat. MS did a very neat design where it vents all around the rim, instead of making a single hot spot, but still...
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT. Aside from putting our own OS on the hardware, Surface is already pretty well jailbroken, and we're just barely getting started!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I can get Eclipse on Windows RT, then it is game over.
I will get Windows RT instead of Pro.

Interesting thoughts. I move back and forth daily on what one to get. I wish the RT port was USB 3.0. And the lower resolution screen is still a concern of mine.
Really though, I want a 64GB without the Touch/Type keyboards. I'll never use them and unless they are thrown in? I'll pass.

GoodDayToDie said:
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT.
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Could you please clarify? Any links or threads that provide info on this? Thought this was impossible.

He's referring to this thread, specifically post #10.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1885399

e.mote said:
He's referring to this thread, specifically post #10.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1885399
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Thanks. That's what I figured. I read that thread some time ago - sort of a dead end - not really a practical solution.
You would need source code, and then the ability to self-sign could be easily revoked at any time, disabling all hacked 3rd party apps with one update.

GoodDayToDie said:
A few more points:
Surface RT has no moving parts internally. No fans, in particular. The Surface Pro isn't actually anywhere near twice as thick (it's about 4mm more, I think; that's less than 50% thicker) but it will need to have fans, and to vent heat. MS did a very neat design where it vents all around the rim, instead of making a single hot spot, but still...
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT. Aside from putting our own OS on the hardware, Surface is already pretty well jailbroken, and we're just barely getting started!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I looked at the specs again, I had my facts wrong - it is just about 50% thicker, not twice as thick, but that still makes a big difference.
One other thing I noticed is that Surface Pro doesn't come with Office, so aside from the cost of the tablet, add another $150-$300 to the cost to get parity with the Surface RT.
In addition, I noticed this:
Connectivity:
Surface RT: Always connected, even when in standby mode. Connected standby keeps apps up-to-date.
Surface Pro: Connectivity off when hibernating/sleeping to preserve battery.
Something tells me MS already knows battery will be a problem with the Pro. There is no standby with the Pro, only the PC-esque hibernate/sleep, so there will be lag when starting up and you can't "peek" at your device to see messages.
Full side-by-side comparison of specs available here:
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/surface-with-windows-rt/help-me-choose

What is the camera specs like in megapixels?

1.0 front and back for RT. It is a seriously bad camera.
Would like to know what will come with Pro. Though, I will say I was pretty convinced I wanted Pro instead, but after reading this thread I'm on the fence.

compty said:
What is the camera specs like in megapixels?
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Same 720p (just shy of 1MP) camera, front and back, for both the RT and the Pro. Most people don't realize this but even a 1080p screen is only 2MP. So although the resolution is not that high, it is enough to fill the screen of the RT without enlarging the image. Interestingly, on the Surface Pro, viewing an image taken with the camera in full-screen mode may look pixelated.
A detailed spec sheet with side-by-side comparison is here.

Just received mine. It is much heavier than I thought. Haven't turned it on yet. Want to fully charge it.
One thing of concern is that somehow there is a tiny and I mean tiny scratch/scuff in the casing by the cover connector which shows a sliver of silver (metal) underneath. I am wondering how durable the black coating is on the casing and if lots of scratches will scuff away at the paint.

Meh, nowadays its sort of the norm to have decent cameras, especially on the back. I suppose I won't be taking many pictures with the surface anyway.

I started a compatibility thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1964402
Lots of great stuff with the RT, much to my surprise. I really thought some of these features would be reserved for the Pro. I have to say I am impressed.
If we can overcome the Junos Pulse issue this can easily be my daily driver system.

REALLY REALLY wanted this to be a good tablet.

I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.

ih8sense said:
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bought a good tablet, mate. build quality and software is awesome, that's why u got interested in the first place.
On the other hand, will it get support?, i believe in time it will. My reasons is touch screen. Touch is the future, yes x86 apps already exist but they dont exist in touch. So the future being touch will revolutionize the existing apps for touch and this will make room for metro apps. And this is were rt will win.
Secondly the future is portable, x86 is not, rt is. Windows 8 is bridge to what will become sindows of the future, a touch only windows. Besides if MS fails in marketing RT, someone else will want a cut of the pie and market RT.
Lastly, modders will break this device before xmas, sideloading will b possible,emulation will happen and i foresee a future were android emulators will run on this beast. A lot will happen
RT has potential, surface may fail but RT will not cos its light weight and its future proof.

I think RT will not fail. PPL will wait till they see their lovely apps on it but they will come. Windows is used on more than 90% of the computers in the world. So I think its just a matter of time to developers finish and publish their apps. Even if winRT won't get as popular as win8, the code is almost the same which makes easy to publish the same app for Arm.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express

you know, the only pros of surface pro over surface IMO is the MKV support and 1080p screen.
2 things that made me return surface are
- lack of MKV support (which 90% of my movies are in mkv)
- low resolution. When i used it while lying down the bed, i tend to use it closer to my eyes than when i'm sitting down. The text doesn't look crisp and i can see pixels in the pictures.
If those 2 reasons won't bother you, surface is one hell of a tablet and for 499$, it's a steal. Remember that it's a tablet, apps would be optimized for touchscreen and you will have great mobility over laptop. The apps are pretty limited for now but i believe developers will start developing for it. I love the surface even though i return it.

I think that the biggest hurdle for Windows RT is the WinRT runtime. It's horribly gimped. I was honestly amazed at how god awful and stunted C# was in WinRT. It's almost as if they intentionally limited it for reasons only MS knows.

First off, Microsoft haven't announced a halving of orders. It is merely conjecture. What they have announced is support for Surface RT until 2017 though we dont know any details around this.
I dont think that Windows RT will be a big platform in the way that other lightweight OS's are - iOS and Android - but I do think it offers something unique. If you use tons of popular apps on other platforms, you will be disappointed in the Surface RT. If you live in a web browser, you will love Surface RT. I am not sure this will change unless those apps come for Windows 8 and can also be cross compiled for Windows RT.
If a 10" tablet is what you want and it fits your life, I see only 2 usable options - an iPad or a Surface RT. Android is awful on 10" tablets.
Sounds to me though that if you want the form factor the Surface brings, then Surface Pro might be more suitable, but I am not convinced it is a viable tablet as Windows desktop mode is horrible to use with touch.

quoted:
Sounds to me though that if you want the form factor the Surface brings, then Surface Pro might be more suitable, but I am not convinced it is a viable tablet as Windows desktop mode is horrible to use with touch.
pro =$1000, 4ish hour battery life.
no sales numbers released from rt.
ruh roh.

What about the Lenovo Twist? Windows 8 Pro, i5, 128gb SSD 12.5 touch screen and it is a tablet and laptop.. I returned my Surface and bought a Twist for $699 on BF.. Hoping it will do it all....
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

Got to agree with some of the above posts.
RT is the future of windows, it is the new NT, and some of us older users will remember how that was initially received...

The Surface RT is one helluva sexy tablet. In build quality, specs, and screen beauty it just is awesome. Really without software it is way ahead of the whole pack..... I played with it a long time....
But every time I interacted with the windows interface, there was just that familiar slow feeling. I am even now very serious about the Surface RT and am hotly debating buying it. But the software is just slightly underwhelming. I love the Metro interface, but not whats under it.
IF you do web browisng, games, movies and pics ONLY - this is an ABSOLUTELY must buy. The gorgeous experience is unbeatable. But the whole interaction at the windows level tends to wake me up from my dream. Having support for proper PowerPoint with HDMI ouput makes this a traveling presentation platform etc. But apps? apps? apps? You cannot entice people if the apps are missing - you cannot say " buy it now, I guarantee that apps are coming". It does not work with consumers. That it may lead to a slow down fro the Surface is one of my biggest fears.
On a tablet I browse the internet, listen to music, read books, email, and watch some sports. So by my own standard I should buy it. But Windows keeps me away...
One thing I do not agree about as said above - that windows desktop is not for touch. Using the touch laptops I find this to be quite intuitive, coming from a tablet world. Yes, on vertical screens one's hands can get tired to do a lot of touching - holding it up to the screen for extended periods. But I find it much more natural than trackpads - I hate trackpads, even Apple's "magic" trackpad ....
My 2 cents.... I need to decide if I just want a tablet, or a tablet that can double as a small laptop.

saryu said:
you know, the only pros of surface pro over surface IMO is the MKV support and 1080p screen.
2 things that made me return surface are
- lack of MKV support (which 90% of my movies are in mkv)
- low resolution. When i used it while lying down the bed, i tend to use it closer to my eyes than when i'm sitting down. The text doesn't look crisp and i can see pixels in the pictures.
If those 2 reasons won't bother you, surface is one hell of a tablet and for 499$, it's a steal. Remember that it's a tablet, apps would be optimized for touchscreen and you will have great mobility over laptop. The apps are pretty limited for now but i believe developers will start developing for it. I love the surface even though i return it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In less than a month after the release there are at least two applications tha support some mkv. They are still not perfect but it took developers more than a year to get the same result for the iPad.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------
Yes, I'm worry about the cut down the numbers of orders for RT reported by suppliers and Microsoft rushing to release the PRO version acting like it will be the saver.
http://ultramobilepc-tips.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-high-risk-behind-surface-pro.html#links
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro

ctitanic said:
In less than a month after the release there are at least two applications tha support some mkv. They are still not perfect but it took developers more than a year to get the same result for the iPad.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------
Yes, I'm worry about the cut down the numbers of orders for RT reported by suppliers and Microsoft rushing to release the PRO version acting like it will be the saver.
http://ultramobilepc-tips.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-high-risk-behind-surface-pro.html#links
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After hearing the pricing of the pro and the battery limitations, I actually like my Surface RT more now. Unfortunately there is so much pressure for it to beat the IPAD that people write it off without giving it a chance . I like it more and more every day.

ih8sense said:
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It very depends on your propose, what you need for it.
for me, i do need a lot excel , ppt, word, and I tried do it on iPad, it sucks. I own a Macbook Air, but a bit trouble while checking something on street .....
After testing Surface for an hour, I love it. Of course if you looking for fun more than a working tab, its not a good choice at this moment as lack of apps support.
Just hope Chrome will come and get more apps soon , then will be the king of tablet im sure.

guitar1969 said:
After hearing the pricing of the pro and the battery limitations, I actually like my Surface RT more now. Unfortunately there is so much pressure for it to beat the IPAD that people write it off without giving it a chance . I like it more and more every day.
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Click to collapse
I completely agree. I can't put the damn thing down! The browser experience is sensational. And Xbox music is phenomenally good! I mean free streaming music, albeit with fairly unobtrusive add support.
And as for apps you needn't worry. The company I work for has figured out that Windows 8 is going onto every budget laptop from here on out and the Windows 8 marketplace presents a great opportunity. As such are having their iOS & Android app ported to Win8 as we speak.
Also as another example the impetus to get into Windows 8/RT the VLC Player devs are going to the extreme of going to Kickstarter for funding to hire full time devs to get VLC Player into the Windows 8 marketplace as fast as possible... http://www.wpcentral.com/vlc-starts-kickstarter-windows-8-and-beyond-development-funding
So I sincerely believe the WINRT app catalogue will really take off.
Also, you know it's a good device when the missus is continually wanting it off you!

I agree with others... The RT has a good life to it. The problem IMO, is that people are holding out to see the Pro, then they'll decide.
Honestly I think people will end up with the RT over the Pro.
You just can't use a 10" screen for full desktop applications. It doesn't work.
Also, and this is big, the Pro is not using a Run Time system, that means you must shut it down when not in use, it will suspend instead of sleep, and it will go through battery like mad (they expect 4 hours max).
If you like how fast the Surface RT turns on, and how your e-mails, status updates, and calendar reminders are there, kiss that goodbye with the Pro. It is, for all intents and purposes, a PC in a thin form factor. An engineering marvel for sure, but I think people will expect it to be like the Surface RT, iPad, or Android tab just beefier. When they find out it isn't, I think RT sales will shoot up.

I also read somewhere that the Surface is not optimized to use all the 5 cores of the Tegra3 and it is still running crippled. I believe it came from Nvidia themselves. Once fixed, it should be more responsive. I hope so, because it does seem a bit slow in opening apps and such, although it is tolerable.

guitar1969 said:
I also read somewhere that the Surface is not optimized to use all the 5 cores of the Tegra3 and it is still running crippled. I believe it came from Nvidia themselves. Once fixed, it should be more responsive. I hope so, because it does seem a bit slow in opening apps and such, although it is tolerable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft will continue to optimise the base firmware of the device to improve performance. They've released one such update already and there will be plenty more to come.
Just look how far they've pushed the Xbox 360.

[Q] Best laptop replacing tablets

Hi Everyone,
I wanted to gather people's thoughts on the best tablets currently out, or due out in the coming 3 months, that would be viable laptop replacing options.
I am currently in this situation, where I want to purchase a tablet and sell my Macbook 13". I travel a lot and a tablet would be very useful because of it's size, portability and the fact that my Macbook is from 2008, so an update is about due I think!
Currently I use my laptop for :
- Browsing the internet
- Occasional listening to music (Use my phone more though)
- Occasional word editing (however, not that often to be honest)
- Transferring photo's from my camera (Sony NEX-6), viewing photo's and occasionally doing minor editing of said photo's
So as you can see, my usage is fairly limited these days. A good screen is of importance to be because of the photo's, as well as watching movies whilst travelling.
Operating system is not a massive deal, I've used all three. I got bored of IOS after I had the iPhone 3GS for a while, then moved to Android (currently using). I've also played around with Windows 8. All have there own advantages and disadvantages.
I have to say, even though most things I say about Apple these days is negative (I feel they've stalled quite a bit in the past 2 years), the Ipad probably still has the best look and feel, but I'm not sure if I would grow bored again with it's tired and outdated looking operating system? I love the photo options and journal options though!
Android is more customisable, I still find new ways to keep myself entertained on my HTC Sensation, thanks to amazing developers, but would a tablet just be an enlarged phone for me then? Would this become unappealing?
Windows 8 looks lovely, it's a fresh faced interface, something new and shiny! It's great fun to play with, but the current Windows RT version is quite limited I'm not sure it's worth gamling on any of the current lineup of Windows Tablets, perhaps not until they get to there second generation at least.
So what would everyone top choice be for a laptop replacing tablet? Personally, I would want something within the same budget as the iPad 4 or less. But, would love to see opinions for any value!
Mike

I don't have experience with the Windows tablets, but the Transformer Infinity - TF700, is a great choice in the Android department. The keyboard dock allows for easy document-editing when you want it, but without being stuck with it.
The older versions of the Transformer line can still offer good performance - not sure what your budget is. You can use bluetooth keyboards with other tablets, and that's an idea, but the integration on the Transformer line is great. Since I built a desktop, I have largely stopped using my laptop and have replaced it with one of the Transformer tablets. With Flash and Drive and office software it does everything I needed my laptop for now that I have a desktop for the video games that require a bit of oomph (and I'm enjoying the gaming on the tablet as well - something I never really got into on my phone).
Not sure how your camera works for transferring photos, but the TF series docks have full-size USB ports and a full-size SD card reader (as well as the microSD slot in the tablet). I have hooked an external hard-drive up to it and all went well.

Pennycake said:
I don't have experience with the Windows tablets, but the Transformer Infinity - TF700, is a great choice in the Android department. The keyboard dock allows for easy document-editing when you want it, but without being stuck with it.
The older versions of the Transformer line can still offer good performance - not sure what your budget is. You can use bluetooth keyboards with other tablets, and that's an idea, but the integration on the Transformer line is great. Since I built a desktop, I have largely stopped using my laptop and have replaced it with one of the Transformer tablets. With Flash and Drive and office software it does everything I needed my laptop for now that I have a desktop for the video games that require a bit of oomph (and I'm enjoying the gaming on the tablet as well - something I never really got into on my phone).
Not sure how your camera works for transferring photos, but the TF series docks have full-size USB ports and a full-size SD card reader (as well as the microSD slot in the tablet). I have hooked an external hard-drive up to it and all went well.
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I've done quite a bit of research on the TF700, I even came close to committing, however I've just read about too many issues with the I/O and internal memory performance that has put me right off. It seems to be a problem for almost every owner I've encountered. I love the look and style of the tablet, also the connectivity and battery are brilliant. But I want something with excellent performance and I think this is outdated already in that regard. The fact that you have to void your warranty to root it and then install a ROM to make it smooth is a worry.
I was hoping Asus came up with an update to it at CES, but it seems this won't be happening.

The TF700 and the Nexus 10 are the two I consistently hear people say are the best and the fastest right now. I'm not sure about the N10 as laptop replacement, it seems like for that or a tablet without a dock that you'd have to do so many work-arounds that you might look into an ultrabook instead. It would try my patience, but I suppose it's personal preference what you're willing to do and put up with.

I'd recommend you take a look at the Surface RT tablet. It is not anything like as limited as you might think and it would meet pretty much all your requirements. I have one and for most purposes I have stopped carrying a full-on laptop and just take the Surface.
There is also the Pro coming out this month - it would be over your budget but actually is a genuine laptop replacement. There was a review of it on the Verge yesterday.

Inadorel said:
I'd recommend you take a look at the Surface RT tablet. It is not anything like as limited as you might think and it would meet pretty much all your requirements. I have one and for most purposes I have stopped carrying a full-on laptop and just take the Surface.
There is also the Pro coming out this month - it would be over your budget but actually is a genuine laptop replacement. There was a review of it on the Verge yesterday.
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Click to collapse
I wish I could have a play with one in a store... Hopefully soon. What is the screen like? This is an important aspect for me. It doesn't need to be as good as the Nexus 10 for example, but a HD screen would be a minimum I think for me.

Maybe the thinkpad tablet 2 could be a good choice for you. It has win8 pro, is beautifull and light. So no RT limits, no IOS boaringnes, real USB port, HDMI port and a good display.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

olarf said:
Maybe the thinkpad tablet 2 could be a good choice for you. It has win8 pro, is beautifull and light. So no RT limits, no IOS boaringnes, real USB port, HDMI port and a good display.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Looks quite nice. Concerned about the battery life being reported on most of the Windows tablets though? As i'll be travelling quite a bit, this could present an issue?

Hi guys, is the Lumia series of Nokia can be an option to replace a laptop computer?

Anyone else have any thoughts?

I recommend Nexus 10 is way to go especially when your priority is photos. Ipad could be the best choice, but if you want to enjoy quality with reasonable price, Nexus 10 won't disappoint you.

lkirra said:
Hi guys, is the Lumia series of Nokia can be an option to replace a laptop computer?
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No comment
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2

Magnector said:
I recommend Nexus 10 is way to go especially when your priority is photos. Ipad could be the best choice, but if you want to enjoy quality with reasonable price, Nexus 10 won't disappoint you.
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This is probably my top choice right now, although I'm in the UK, so have to wait until they are back in stock to even consider it... I don't have to rush out and get something luckily, I can probably hold off until around May / June before I will have to buy. So it might be worth me waiting as there are bound to be some new releases by then. Hopefully a few Tegra 4 devices start showing themselves by then.

Mikeparakh said:
Looks quite nice. Concerned about the battery life being reported on most of the Windows tablets though? As i'll be travelling quite a bit, this could present an issue?
Click to expand...
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So far all tests talking about 10 hours of serious use. I get one tomorrow so soon i can tell you if 10h is a fact.
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olarf said:
So far all tests talking about 10 hours of serious use. I get one tomorrow so soon i can tell you if 10h is a fact.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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I'd really appreciate that, thanks! Is it the Surface RT you've bought?

No the thinkpad tablet2 with win8 pro. So far it is great but still loading so i have no idea about Akku durance. Soon i have
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I have a Surface RT, and it gets the job done pretty well. I know some people still complain about a "lack of apps" on the Windows RT platform, but it hasn't been an issue for me - IE10 as a browser and Office (just Word, PPT, Excel, and OneNote, of course) comprise most of my use.
I get between 7.5 and 9 hours of battery life out of the device, depending on what I'm doing. On average, it'll get me through about a day and a half of classes - that's three hours each day, plus about 1.5 hours of additional use outside of that on each day (until the battery runs out after usually 8 or so hours). It charges really fast, though - I don't often have to charge it for much more than an hour to nearly fill the battery. A full recharge from a dead batter will probably take you 2 hours, though.
About the only thing I miss on it is the ability to run some programming interfaces (Python, Java, etc.), but with that fancy new jailbreak tool this may be changing - they've already ported most of Python 2.7, for example. I'd heartily recommend the Surface, given both its advantages and shortcomings.

MacBook replacement?
Mikeparakh said:
I'd really appreciate that, thanks! Is it the Surface RT you've bought?
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Have you purchased a replacement for the MacBook? Would love to get your thoughts.

Best computing options for general use
Mikeparakh said:
Hi Everyone,
I wanted to gather people's thoughts on the best tablets currently out, or due out in the coming 3 months, that would be viable laptop replacing options.
I am currently in this situation, where I want to purchase a tablet and sell my Macbook 13". I travel a lot and a tablet would be very useful because of it's size, portability and the fact that my Macbook is from 2008, so an update is about due I think!
Currently I use my laptop for :
- Browsing the internet
- Occasional listening to music (Use my phone more though)
- Occasional word editing (however, not that often to be honest)
- Transferring photo's from my camera (Sony NEX-6), viewing photo's and occasionally doing minor editing of said photo's
So as you can see, my usage is fairly limited these days. A good screen is of importance to be because of the photo's, as well as watching movies whilst travelling.
Operating system is not a massive deal, I've used all three. I got bored of IOS after I had the iPhone 3GS for a while, then moved to Android (currently using). I've also played around with Windows 8. All have there own advantages and disadvantages.
I have to say, even though most things I say about Apple these days is negative (I feel they've stalled quite a bit in the past 2 years), the Ipad probably still has the best look and feel, but I'm not sure if I would grow bored again with it's tired and outdated looking operating system? I love the photo options and journal options though!
Android is more customisable, I still find new ways to keep myself entertained on my HTC Sensation, thanks to amazing developers, but would a tablet just be an enlarged phone for me then? Would this become unappealing?
Windows 8 looks lovely, it's a fresh faced interface, something new and shiny! It's great fun to play with, but the current Windows RT version is quite limited I'm not sure it's worth gamling on any of the current lineup of Windows Tablets, perhaps not until they get to there second generation at least.
So what would everyone top choice be for a laptop replacing tablet? Personally, I would want something within the same budget as the iPad 4 or less. But, would love to see opinions for any value!
Mike
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For general use like web surfing , email, youtube and netflix watching with a little gaming to pass the time away I would say a tablet ( your choice ) . If its for all that plus working in office regularly along with photo editing and such I would say a laptop . You can get them from basic like an i5 or i7 or even a Celeron or pentium based ones to almost as powerful as a desktop ( Razer , Alienware , MSI, are all gaming laptops and workstations like thinkpads and such and are very powerful ) If you will be doing anything harder like working in CAD or developing or 4k video editing and exporting although many laptops can do these you would be better suited using a desktop , (the CPU , ram , mother board components will be more robust and able to keep cool longer under load than in a laptop). Tablets like the iPad or android tablets are great to pass the time away , are capable to play games or watch videos on and for many people is all the computer they need . I only used my iPad for 3 years ( before that I ran several windows pcs , 4 Macs, and a linux desktop running all the programs I used in my computer repair business ) until I got my MacBook but honestly with what I do on the laptop now the iPad did just as well . I am retired now so my time on the laptop is nothing like what I had done for many years before ( since 1994).

Considering a Surface RT

Hi Surface Owners!
I am still debating which tablet to get and have recently included the Surface in the list. Of the current crop of tablets available, it's between the Nexus 10 and Surface RT. I'm not sure what will be announced at MWC, but i'll keep an eye out obviously.
I wanted to get your advice, as most of the people reading will own a surface. How do you find it now a few months on from release?
I will be selling my Macbook, so my new tablet is going to be my go to for the time being. I will be going travelling for several months, so this will be it's main use. I am wanting something that I can connect either my camera or SD card to so I can download photo's on to the device but also from the device to an external HDD. Obviously using it for entertainment will be a big thing, as well as to plan out parts of our journey and using the internet. I wouldn't mind if I could do some very minor photo editing also. Can anyone let me know what the photo app is like on the device, also if there are any decent photo apps on the marketplace.
So the surface looks like a winner in terms of the USB and SD card slots, making it easier to connect whilst travelling. But the Nexus wins on the screen and probably power. I used Android already on my phone so am used to it, but I quite like the interface on Windows 8 as it's something new. Android and IOS get a bit boring after a long time...
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If anyone owns both tablets it would be great to hear your thoughts also.
Cheers,
Mike

Surface RT is my current ultra-portable computer, and it works well for that so long as it's not all that I have for an extended time. I miss the stylus that my old tablet had (an advantage of the Surface Pro) but do not find that, for example, the kickstand of the RT makes it hard to use on my lap (the way some reviewers have claimed). I have the Touch Cover (and am in fact writing this on it); it works great and you can type quite quickly and with perfect touch-typing muscle memory after a short time of using it.
Prior to the Surface RT, my most portable computer was an old Core 2 Duo ULV (1.2GHz) HP tablet, with a stylus but no touchscreen, 12" screen with 1280x800 resolution, 5 hours battery life (when new), 4GB of RAM (came with 1GB, upgraded immediately), an 80gb 4200RPM 1.8" magnetic hard disk, and 3.5lb weight. I loved it. Still use it, actually; it runs Win8 quite well aside from not being able to use Metro snapping. However, in almost every way possible, the Surface Pro blows it away. For less than the cost of old HP tablet (which was about $1500 new), I can upgrade the C2D to a quad-core chip with over twice the speed per core, I can upgrade the digitizer and add multitouch, I can trade in the 12" screen for one with far higher DPI, I can massively improve the storage by going solid-state instead of rotational (and can get 128GB), and I can keep the 5 hour battery life. The things I would lose are the ability to upgrade the RAM (4GB is a bit low, IMO) and storage (not that I ever did upgrade the old 1.8" drive) and the replaceable battery (I'll live). Oh, and swapping full SD for MicroSD and 2 USB 2.0 ports for a single USB 3.0 port, which means I'll probably want to get a hub. Still, it's tempting, and I may well buy myself one even though right now I don't really need it.

I have a Surface RT and use it as my portable device when I don't want to lug around my ultrabook. For some context, I have an iPad and an ASUS Transformer TF-101 as well. Prior to the Surface RT, I used the Transformer for that. But the lack of things that were important to me made the RT the go-to device when it came out.
For me, things like the USB port, MicroSD card, and Microsoft Office were important. Even more important was the built-in support for Bitlocker, so my MicroSD card can be encrypted at all times and easily read by my other Windows 8 machines. And my other external USB hard drives that are also encrypted can be easily opened by the Surface RT. Native VPN client and RDP helps with work as well (I know there are ways to do this with the other tablets).
I have the apps that I need at this point. I'm not a big social media person, so I can't speak to the apps for those things. But there are enough apps of interest to me that keep me satisfied. Can't speak to the photo apps, however. I don't take photos with it, though I have taken video and those were good.
Overall, I'm very happy with the RT. I got it with the Touch Cover and I can actually type fairly well on it. (I've actually had questions from iPad owners asking about the keyboard, if it was available for their devices.)
I had considered waiting for the Surface Pro, but the extra size and weight, plus the shorter battery life (I get great battery life with the RT, BTW), were concerns for me. I could just as well take my ultrabook (had an Asus Zenbook, now a Sony VAIO T13), which is quite a bit faster than the Surface Pro.
For what it's worth.

You can browse the store from any web browser:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store
For your use cases:
> I am wanting something that I can connect either my camera or SD card to so I can download photo's on to the device but also from the device to an external HDD.
You will be able to do that so long as your camera doesn't need extra drivers to show up (as a USB store) or you use a USB reader for the removable media.
> Obviously using it for entertainment will be a big thing, as well as to plan out parts of our journey and using the internet.
Great web browser. Can play most video, Audio...
> I wouldn't mind if I could do some very minor photo editing also.
Check the store...
> Can anyone let me know what the photo app is like on the device, also if there are any decent photo apps on the marketplace.
The built in photo app is pretty basic.
I would expect you could get by with the surface rt - get the 64gb one, and get a 64gb card...
I took one on a week cruise (along with a netbook for backup) and was able to use just the surface for the whole trip, including dumping GoPro video and digital camera shots to the surface and then onto an external USB disk.

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.
Just a quick note, I meant gallery app, to look and browse / organise your photos, not the camera app to take photos. I laugh when I see people taking photos with there tablet ha ha. I like the way the ipad shows your photos by map, gallery and a journal function for example.
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Mikeparakh said:
Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.
Just a quick note, I meant gallery app, to look and browse / organise your photos, not the camera app to take photos. I laugh when I see people taking photos with there tablet ha ha. I like the way the ipad shows your photos by map, gallery and a journal function for example.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using xda app-developers app
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The Photo album app that comes with the RT is very basic. You may want to check out apps in the store that have more functionality.

Mikeparakh said:
look and browse
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Yep
/ organise your photos
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Nope.
Really basic. Grid of photos, or slideshow/swipe browse full screen. That's what you get.

What you are saying about getting bored with the other operating systems is exactly why I made Surface my choice. I've been playing with android for the last 7 years. And thanks to all the devs here at xda I was able to make all of my devices do exactly what I wanted.. But it was time for something totally different. I made the right decision. To be honest, at the beginning, learning the new ui was frustrating! :crying: Because I was having trouble finding things and when I did it didn't seem be consistent through the ui.... After about 3 days it all started to come together very well... you'll find that the system is actually set up quite well. I found everything I needed in the store. I'm very pleased with the purchase.

So any 2.5" hard drive will work with the Surface RT? Wow, I'm a bit surprised here. I thought there might not be enough power to power up a hard drive. Is the USB port capable of supporting a USB hub? My plan is to connect at least a 2-port USB hub, and transfer photos from my camera to the portable hard drive. If the Surface RT can do that, then I may not need to consider the Surface Pro even though it have USB 3.0.
---------- Post added at 01:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 AM ----------
Mikeparakh said:
Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.
Just a quick note, I meant gallery app, to look and browse / organise your photos, not the camera app to take photos. I laugh when I see people taking photos with there tablet ha ha. I like the way the ipad shows your photos by map, gallery and a journal function for example.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using xda app-developers app
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I agree with you and that's what I love about the iOS photo app. Does anyone here know of a photo app for Windows RT that can show my photos base on its location data?

So, all in all, are people happy with the device? What are the major issues to be concerned with, if any?

No major issues.
For the same price in Canada, the Asus ME400 offers Windows 8 x86 so I went with that due to needing Java/Cisco for remote connectivity to work. I did not regret owning surface. There was nothing majorly wrong with it, I loved the full USB port (which the Asus does not have). Surface RT use s a proprietary charger vs the Asus which uses micro-usb charger. Surface charges faster.
If the app you want is not in the app store, or you need drivers for your devices, that could be a problem. Note that Surface RT does not offer a full size SD card slot, only a micro. You can't put your camera card directly into Surface unless you are using microsd.
Build quality is top notch, the kickstand is great, battery life is very good, and Windows RT is pretty slick.

USB hubs work, but unless you use a powered hub (and power it from the wall or another source), you're still going to be limited by the relatively meager power of the Surface RT's single USB port. It's enough for a 2.5" disk of at least 5400 RPM (haven't tried 7200 RPM yet) but funning (for example) a mouse and a hard drive off of it might be too much.

It's sounding pretty positive so far! I keep reading reviews though and none seem to be great! But I think most of the companies doing the reviews are stuck half way up Apple's ass.
I keeping an eye on a few auctions ending on Ebay tonight, to see if I can pick up a bargain, fingers crossed! If not, I will probably purchase one from John Lewis over the next two weeks.
I've read a few sites that think Microsoft will drop the price on the RT soon, do you think this will happen? All speculation I guess, no one really knows..
The other thing is, they don't seem to hold there value well. Where as the Nexus 10, you could almost make money on if you decided to sell due to it being hard to get.

Mikeparakh said:
It's sounding pretty positive so far! I keep reading reviews though and none seem to be great!
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They expected an iPad with a windows logo. They got a Windows tablet instead. Coupled with the need to dogpile on the new UI, and as you said the large number of Apple Experts With Very Short Memories, and the review effect isn't shocking.

I have a Surface RT and I love it! I use it for nearly everything. I use remote desktop or team viewer for anything that requires x86 apps.
Its brilliant to use around the house! my wife has her Nexus 7 and has to switch between that and her laptop every so often while I just use the Surface.
When my laptop dies which wont be long (though it could be longer as I don't use it now) then I plan on getting a Surface Pro. The build quality of it (Surface RT) is outstanding. I had an issue with the touch cover, contacted Surface support and they were amazing, got a new touch cover no questions asked and in quick time, reported the issue at around 1400 and got the new one at around 1300 the following day! I cant recommend it enough. Everyone I show it is impressed with near enough everything it can do, the only downside is that not all the apps I used to use on Android are available, but Android is coming up to its 5th Birthday in October and that will be 1 year of Win RT.
25'879 are in the Windows Store as of writing and if, this is a big if, Microsoft can some how link the WP store and the WinRT store then it has massive potential.
I only wish that Microsoft really pushed hard on getting these into people hands. In the UK John Lewis is a very repeatable store but that is the only brick and mortar place you can get one. In nearly every store I go these day there is a gadget area selling iPads and Androids, come on Microsoft lets have you back at the top of the tech tree, where you were when you bailed out Apple!

So I've gone ahead an purchased. I managed to get a bargain! £425 for a brand new Surface RT 64GB with black touch cover! Hopefully will arrive tomorrow, fingers crossed. Really want a blue touch cover, so might sell the black and get a blue.
Anything I should know before I first switch on and setup?

After some more usage with the RT, I'm quite liking it. There's definitely lag, especially on games. "Rat On A Snowboard" even lags and there's nothing even going on with that! Something isn't right and a Tegra3 should be able to at least handle ROAS.
Otherwise, "Mobile.HD" works brilliantly so that's a major plus. I've got the UK Netflix showing on my Metro UI, and then I can access the US Netflix using the browser so very pleased with that. "Pow!" seems decent for comics. "Tome" for Goodreads.
But the games really are a letdown. Hardly any decent games and what ones are there run very poorly. I realise it's not an iPad and that'd be more suited for games etc but the Tegra3 works great on the Nexus 7 and it's just not working right in the RT. Whether that's due to the Nexus 7 using all of the Tegra3 cores and the RT not using them all, or whether it's poor coding, or a problem with RT itself, I haven't got a clue. But it's not as fluid as it could/should be.

Surface RT
Again in context I have laptop Dell Duo Flip screen. Nexus 7, Playbook 64gb ( I like gadgets). I was considering a Surface RT or Surface Pro.
But I ended up with a RM Slate 100 (EXOPC) 2gb Memory, 32gb mini pe ssd card (also spare slot for second ssd card or gps unit, 2 usb ports full size, HDMI out, SD Card slot (I added 32gb 45mb sec) 11.6 inch screen I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro. in all it cost me £180 pounds.
it was a gamble but the result is a very capable Surface Pro look alike. Any wireless keyboard will work when needed. Linked to my Nexus with a mouse and keyboard simulator it works great through plasma TV via HDMI. Skydrive adds another 48gb storage, dropbox for moving files around.
Added bonus Android for X86 works as well from SD Card .
Boot time 20 sec with Office 2010 loaded. Program start times ready to go Word 3 sec, Excel 1.8 sec, Outlook 4.5 sec, Paintshop Pro X5 31 sec.
Any one else put together a surface pro look alike.
How does a Surface compare.

I have the Asus VIVO Tab RT which uses same OS. I love it as an ultra portable tablet/laptop but one thing I really hate is the browser. I just hate IE10 on Windows 8/Windows RT and wish Chrome or Firefox would release a browser for RT.

I just received my Surface RT 64GB with a black touch cover. First impressions are fantastic! I love the look and feel of the device. Just from setting it up, i'm amazed at just how responsive the touch cover is! I think I'll get used to it very quickly. Doing the updates now so haven't played much, but very happy thus far! Still would like a blue touch cover though!

[Q] Surface 2 worth to buy now?

A little disappointed not seeing a new surface with Tegra K1 or mini sized model.
That's why I am thinking to buy Surface 2. I want a tablet with the full functioned Office and I can check and edit documents easily outside. Is it still worth to buy a Windows RT tablets right now? Do you guys think Microsoft is still developing Windows RT?
Can someone who have Surface 2 share you experiences? :fingers-crossed:

My honest opinion, not worth it. I honestly don't think RT is around to stay and some of the atom tablets manage to get to similar enough price points yet run full windows 8.1.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
My honest opinion, not worth it. I honestly don't think RT is around to stay and some of the atom tablets manage to get to similar enough price points yet run full windows 8.1.
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That's what i think too. I really hope Microsoft would bring out a surface-liked, atom equipped, 10.1 inch Windows 8.1 tablet in the future

I have a Surface RT, I mostly use it for watching episodes of shows, school work, and emails. For basic usage it's fine with 8.1 RT, M$ still does windows updates to fix whatever.
The surface 2 Pro & SP3 both have the same i5 Haswell that's about 1yr old now. I honestly don't see why the SP3 didn't wait for Broadwell...
Transmitted From Burning Gundam

For me, the lack of a published jailbreak for RT 8.1 would be a deal-breaker on the Surface 2. Hopefully that will change as I believe a jailbreak is still in the works, but I wouldn't bet on it anymore when x86 devices are at or near the same price point. If you don't care about running desktop software other than office, and find a really good deal on a Surface 2, then it might still be worth it. I really like the Surface hardware and form factor, just Windows RT is somewhat disappointing out of the box. I've had my Surface RT and type cover for a bit over a year now and it is a really useful device.

I have a Surface 2 for about 7 months now and I still love it! Love it much more than any Android or iPad tablet. It's very good in terms of performance and the kickstand is just amazing! I love the 16:9 form factor because I always use my tablet in landscape (On a table or most of the time on my chest when I am in bed ) Internet Explorer 11 is amazing, much better than Chrome or Safari are except for one annoying bug that is when I try to go back to a page it takes almost forever to load it again! (Microsoft if you are reading this, please fix this bug, it's very very annoying). I love watching movies in there as well and the design is fantastic! But yours movies will have to be mp4 as there aren't AFAIK any good free mkv players (VLC team if you are reading this, we are still waiting for VLC in ARM!!! Please do it!!!)
Battery life is not very good when you use it for web browsing (about 6, 6.5 hours) but for watching movies it's very good! If you want for Office though, keep in mind that the Office RT version doesn't have VBA...
I love the virtual keyboard, it's really really responsive, never failed me...
And there is a USB socket where I can plug my pen drive with my movies and it's really a very good thing to have and you'll never have that in a iPad.
The cameras are ok, not the best but also not the worst. The front is good enough for skype calls.
The audio could be a little better though with speakers on front instead of sides, maybe for surface 3.
And another thing, there are still missing a lot of apps in the store. And the charger is a little tricky to get it plugged in.
I think Microsoft might have a killer tablet Windows RT tablet if they have:
- Have the speakers on the front
- Have a better GPU (Tegra K1 )
- Have a little bit more bright in the screen and a 12 inch screen like Surface 3
- Improve the battery life for web browsing
- Fix the increasingly annoying bug in the Internet Explorer 11 back button.
The dream is to get a Surface Pro 3 with all this. I believe what's really missing in Surface Pro 3 right now is a really powerful GPU to play games. When Microsoft makes that, then the game is over for every other tablet!! Imagine able to play Watch Dogs at a decent framerate/quality everywhere!! Just plug in a mouse, a keyboard or maybe a 360 controller and you are done.

I'm set to get the Surface 2 in a few weeks coming from Japan, as Microsoft have rare distributors around, with my region having only one who overprice by over $200 to $300 for the Surface Pro series. They absolutely don't carry the Surface 2.
The Surface Pro are really expensive, and I have a powerful but heavy Alienware laptop to do heavier loads for 3D rendering when I need to. So, the Surface 2 comes to mind for my masters thesis writing needs with a great keyboard cover and lighter to carry around.
I'm a heavy Galaxy Note user, was really tempted to get the Note 10.1, or the 12.2. My decision for choosing the Surface 2 instead were:
1. That wonderful built-in kickstand. I don't like leather covers.
2. Fantastic Type Cover 2 for my fast typing and with backlighting.
3. 200GB of OneDrive for 2 freaking years!
4. Full Office.
5. Snappy OS, with practically no viruses I've heard of.
6. Half the price compared to the Pro series, and I'm getting the 64GB version, all within $700 with the Type Cover 2.
7. Full connectivity with USB 3.0, Wifi, Bluetooth, miracasting, and HDMI for extended screen at home.
8. A promising RT future - I know people doubt RT is ever getting the pickup it truly deserves and the news that MS is going to merge RT and WinPhone into one is something. I do not need Instagram, or any of those games most are playing. I mean to see this as my writing and reading tool.
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