Database Info

Prevent RC30 by changing SIM card?

I'm just wondering if I can prevent the RC30 update by simply putting a different (active) T-Mobile SIM in the phone. The idea is to keep it at RC28 without any possibility of bricking it right now. (It's my wife's phone...) I'd like to sit tight with RC28 to see if anyone finds a way around RC30 and later updates.
I have three SIMs available to me right now: 1) has full G1 data plan + 400 text messages 2) has only T-Zones (which permits gMail, etc.) and 3) has Unlimited Voice, MMS and SMS, but no data or T-Zones plans. The obvious questions which arise are:
- How does T-Mobile (or Google) find G1s to update? The rumor is that they will NOT update phones that do not have one of the G1 data plans. That would be nice, if true, when it comes to RC30. Is it true?
- Would the SIM with no data plan be the safest to use?
- Would I be safe with the T-Zones SIM? That would permit email when not in WiFi coverage...
I realize the modification to the bootloader is the best way to prevent the update, but I'm just thinking I might be able to safely and easily put myself into a holding pattern by just changing the SIM.
What say you?
Reg
P.S. Nice forum! Thanks for all the hard work and useful information!

Hello from Switzerland.
No that's not correct. I have an unlocked phone, living in Switzerland on the sunrise 3G network and even here I got the update (i denied it of course... but it still asks me every 5 minutes) !!!! So changing SIM card will not help !

PAO1908 said:
Hello from Switzerland.
No that's not correct. I have an unlocked phone, living in Switzerland on the sunrise 3G network and even here I got the update (i denied it of course... but it still asks me every 5 minutes) !!!! So changing SIM card will not help !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amazing! I'm surprised! Thanks!
How about the SIM without a data plan? (You said you have a 3G plan.) Since I heard the update is OTA, is it possible that they will not send it through a WiFi link?

RegGuheert said:
Amazing! I'm surprised!
How about the SIM without a data plan? (You said you have a 3G plan.) Since I heard the update is OTA, is it possible that they will not send it through a WiFi link?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know that. But I think if you don't have a data plan then you will not get it. I heard from androidcommunity people that logged in a wifi hotspot and they got the update.

Call me crazy but is anyone really gonna keep denying it every day all day? Even with their fix I'm sure someone will find a way around it again so might as well update and save yourself the headache in my opinion, this game goes on and on with alot of devices. There are other fixes in update as well including a supposed battery fix.

First thing that I will do now is to change my 29 version so it will not get update anymore (I think a howto is in this forum). And then I hope that the brains in this forum will be able to release a modified 30 version where I can still have root access.

stats555 said:
Call me crazy but is anyone really gonna keep denying it every day all day? Even with their fix I'm sure someone will find a way around it again so might as well update and save yourself the headache in my opinion, this game goes on and on with alot of devices. There are other fixes in update as well including a supposed battery fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing is, it is my phone. It isn't Google's phone.
I bought the hardware, didn't sign any contract prior to purchase, and therefore am not bound by any sort of EULA.
They have no business force upgrading me, what so ever. If they aren't careful, they might get sued. Put another way, asking every 5 minutes is detrimental to the use of the device I bought, and that's just not valid.

Ok.
From all of the posts on this board, it is clear that:
- the update can indeed happen over any method you use to access the internet
- the update does not occur, if the phone has never been activated on t-mobile's network
- the update may occur, if your phone has been activated on t-mobile's network
For example, my phone won't update, and I've tried. This is because I bought it without activation, and the seller did not activate it. It was a non-contract, $399 buy at a t-mobile store.
However, others that have received the update (over wi-fi, for example) have phones that were activated on the t-mobile network prior to being sold, or are phones sold to specific accounts.
At least, that is what all of the data points to.
This being the case, it seems that t-mobile keeps a list of customer activate phones, and those are the ones being hit...

BRad Barnett said:
Ok.
From all of the posts on this board, it is clear that:
- the update can indeed happen over any method you use to access the internet
- the update does not occur, if the phone has never been activated on t-mobile's network
- the update may occur, if your phone has been activated on t-mobile's network
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what has been told the update occurs on all G1's that are TC4... It has nothing to do with T-Mobile but more what Google is doing. Remember this is not a T-Mobile phone it is a Google phone... Google runs the show on the software.

neoobs said:
From what has been told the update occurs on all G1's that are TC4... It has nothing to do with T-Mobile but more what Google is doing. Remember this is not a T-Mobile phone it is a Google phone... Google runs the show on the software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't occur on all G1s that are TC4. It did not occur on mine, for example. An unlocked phone that has never been activated on t-mobile. It was sold without a plan, and the person paid cash for it.
So, t-mobile does not have a record of the imei or what not, being active, anywhere. Further, others have indicated that groups of imeis are being targeted at certain times, so that the update servers will not be overwhelmed.
Again, proof of this is me being stuck on the original firmware for two weeks. I wasn't even able to manually update using the method with anycut. I had to use the simcard method today, to go to R30.
So, again.. there may be another reason why unlocked, unregistered, unknown phones to t-mobile don't get updated, but I'm betting on the lack of activation.
Note, I might add that this makes sense from a *legal* perspective too. Google or t-mobile have absolutely *no* business updating a phone they do not own. They don't own the OS, they don't own the phone. (copyright is not ownership). When you are a t-mobile customer, you accept an TOS, as well as signing a doc generally that grants such rights.
However, I am not, nor have ever been a t-mobile customer. In my country, my rights don't just evaporate because I click on a little button on the screen of a new piece of hardware I bought.
So, legally, it's the right thing, especially considering Google / t-mobile have presence in many countries.

BRad Barnett said:
It doesn't occur on all G1s that are TC4. It did not occur on mine, for example. An unlocked phone that has never been activated on t-mobile. It was sold without a plan, and the person paid cash for it.
So, t-mobile does not have a record of the imei or what not, being active, anywhere. Further, others have indicated that groups of imeis are being targeted at certain times, so that the update servers will not be overwhelmed.
Again, proof of this is me being stuck on the original firmware for two weeks. I wasn't even able to manually update using the method with anycut. I had to use the simcard method today, to go to R30.
So, again.. there may be another reason why unlocked, unregistered, unknown phones to t-mobile don't get updated, but I'm betting on the lack of activation.
Note, I might add that this makes sense from a *legal* perspective too. Google or t-mobile have absolutely *no* business updating a phone they do not own. They don't own the OS, they don't own the phone. (copyright is not ownership). When you are a t-mobile customer, you accept an TOS, as well as signing a doc generally that grants such rights.
However, I am not, nor have ever been a t-mobile customer. In my country, my rights don't just evaporate because I click on a little button on the screen of a new piece of hardware I bought.
So, legally, it's the right thing, especially considering Google / t-mobile have presence in many countries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are plenty of T-Mobile customers who are on the T-Mobile network like myself who have yet to receive the update.
Your theories are a little shady... your telling me that when they sell a phone the IMEI isn't recorded? Then why do they scan the side of the box with the IMEI number? Trust me T-Mobile knows you have that phone... and your network knows it is a T-Mobile phone, that is the entire point of having IMEI numbers. It is the same with MAC addresses on a computer. You know who made the modem, who it was sold to, and what companies install it in their prebuilt systems.
On top of this you do sign a TOS when buying a phone even if it is not with a contract. And I am sure just because you are in a different country that you have to abide by the TOS... Think about it... if you buy it here and export it to your country you either follow the TOS or can be sued for unlawfully exporting from the original country or unlawfully importing to the destination country. It is different if you are visiting but if you leave there then you have just broken FTC laws for the US and International Trade laws for many other countries especially those in the UN.

neoobs said:
There are plenty of T-Mobile customers who are on the T-Mobile network like myself who have yet to receive the update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? The RC19 update??
Regardless, using the anykey method one is able to force an update, and I could not.
Your theories are a little shady... your telling me that when they sell a phone the IMEI isn't recorded? Then why do they scan the side of the box with the IMEI number? Trust me T-Mobile knows you have that phone... and your network knows it is a T-Mobile phone, that is the entire point of having IMEI numbers. It is the same with MAC addresses on a computer. You know who made the modem, who it was sold to, and what companies install it in their prebuilt systems.
On top of this you do sign a TOS when buying a phone even if it is not with a contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do? You don't here, I've never heard of such a thing. Why would you sign a ToS, when you aren't taking any service??
A generic contract, perhaps, but I'd never be idiotic enough to sign a contract when buying a watch, or a radio, or a CB, or anything of the sort.. why would I do so for a cell phone?
I certainly don't have to here, and in Japan you can buy cell phones out of vending machines! I know that in some places in the US, you can buy $100 pre-paid phones off the shelf, and just pay for them at the checkout counter like a bag of potato chips.
And I am sure just because you are in a different country that you have to abide by the TOS... Think about it... if you buy it here and export it to your country you either follow the TOS or can be sued for unlawfully exporting from the original country or unlawfully importing to the destination country. It is different if you are visiting but if you leave there then you have just broken FTC laws for the US and International Trade laws for many other countries especially those in the UN.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh. I didn't sign any TOS, and therefore I am not bound by it. I am not bound by *any* document you sign to buy object A, if you then turn and sell me object A. Never. Never, ever, ever.
Further, a 'terms of service' is only contract used to stipulate by what terms the company will provide you service under. I do not have t-mobile service, and would not even be bound by a TOS, if I was not a t-mobile customer.
As for suing because someone they don't follow a TOS they didn't sign? Absurd! FCC laws have absolutely nothing to do with a TOS. Nothing. Zilch. You are domestically bound by such laws in your own country, regardless of signing anything.
I have no idea what you are talking about with respect of leaving here and leaving there, you are not exporting something that you are going to keep on your person for a vacation. As for the strange comment that the UN has laws, it isn't a country, does not have such a framework, and all UN 'resolutions' are enacted/ratified in countries individually, to make them legal in that jurdistion.
I might note, thank god for that small fact as well.

BRad Barnett said:
Really? The RC19 update??
Regardless, using the anykey method one is able to force an update, and I could not.
You do? You don't here, I've never heard of such a thing. Why would you sign a ToS, when you aren't taking any service??
A generic contract, perhaps, but I'd never be idiotic enough to sign a contract when buying a watch, or a radio, or a CB, or anything of the sort.. why would I do so for a cell phone?
I certainly don't have to here, and in Japan you can buy cell phones out of vending machines! I know that in some places in the US, you can buy $100 pre-paid phones off the shelf, and just pay for them at the checkout counter like a bag of potato chips.
Uh. I didn't sign any TOS, and therefore I am not bound by it. I am not bound by *any* document you sign to buy object A, if you then turn and sell me object A. Never. Never, ever, ever.
Further, a 'terms of service' is only contract used to stipulate by what terms the company will provide you service under. I do not have t-mobile service, and would not even be bound by a TOS, if I was not a t-mobile customer.
As for suing because someone they don't follow a TOS they didn't sign? Absurd! FCC laws have absolutely nothing to do with a TOS. Nothing. Zilch. You are domestically bound by such laws in your own country, regardless of signing anything.
I have no idea what you are talking about with respect of leaving here and leaving there, you are not exporting something that you are going to keep on your person for a vacation. As for the strange comment that the UN has laws, it isn't a country, does not have such a framework, and all UN 'resolutions' are enacted/ratified in countries individually, to make them legal in that jurdistion.
I might note, thank god for that small fact as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to sign anything to still be held under a TOS... Terms of Service means if you use it you abide by the rules. As you mention when buying a CB radio you have to abide by the TOS, which usually states abiding by FCC laws and of course not using it for criminal or illegal purposes. I think you are confusing a TOS with a contract. TOS's are not always signed... in fact just by going to t-mobile.com and browsing around you must abide by their TOS.
I never said anything about the FCC... I said the FTC, the guys in charge of imports and exports for the US. I made my statements plainly clear as I have dealt with them before first and second hand. Anything bought while in another country and returned to your home country is an export from where ever you bought it. And it then becomes an import to your home country or where ever you "sell" it. I never stated the UN as being a country. Stop putting words into my mouth and read what I say carefully. The UN has many laws and they do have laws about specific trade embargo's, yes an individual country can choose to not obey the laws... but the US does obey them, so in this instance the UN would have the jurisdiction to prosecute you in the US or your home country.
Either way this is far off topic and if you really want to discuss it you can PM me and I will be happy to give you a canned response over and over and over again.

neoobs said:
You don't have to sign anything to still be held under a TOS... Terms of Service means if you use it you abide by the rules.
No, TOS means if you use it with those providing a *service*, you abide by the rules. You do not *have* to abide by the rules, unless you signed something, and the only recourse the person providing that service has, is to decline further service.
(this is outside of, of course, acts of vandalism, etc, any law being broken)
As you mention when buying a CB radio you have to abide by the TOS,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you do not have to abide by any terms of service to use a CB. In my country, you need to keep transmission strength under a certain level, and abide by certain other *regulations*, but these are regulations enforced by the CRTC (same as your FCC), under a mandate provided by Federal law.
That is vastly different than a 'terms of service'.
which usually states abiding by FCC laws and of course not using it for criminal or illegal purposes. I think you are confusing a TOS with a contract. TOS's are not always signed... in fact just by going to t-mobile.com and browsing around you must abide by their TOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I do not have to abide by their TOS. A TOS does not need to be signed, precisely because it is not binding. All that t-mobile can do, is deny you the service (access to their webpage), if they feel you have breached their TOS. Further, webpage TOSes are a grey area, and not effectively backed by any court decisions. This is because a TOS is generally provided when a service is given to someone.
A webpage, such as t-mobile.com, is more of an advertisement. Statements of copyright and such aren't TOS statements either, they're infact useless blather.
I never said anything about the FCC... I said the FTC, the guys in charge of imports and exports for the US.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, mistake on my part.
I made my statements plainly clear as I have dealt with them before first and second hand. Anything bought while in another country and returned to your home country is an export from where ever you bought it. And it then becomes an import to your home country or where ever you "sell" it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, however you started wrapping TOS up with various laws, that have nothing to do with t-mobile, or a TOS.
I never stated the UN as being a country. Stop putting words into my mouth and read what I say carefully. The UN has many laws and they do have laws about specific trade embargo's,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The UN does not have any laws. None. They pass resolutions, work collectively with national Representatives to forge treaties, and such works must be ratified in local jurisdictions in order to have any legal standing. The UN is merely a facilitator, an arm of the collective.
yes an individual country can choose to not obey the laws... but the US does obey them, so in this instance the UN would have the jurisdiction to prosecute you in the US or your home country.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, this is beyond ridiciously. The US obeys international law?! You surely must be joking. Do you want me to list the international laws that most other civilization nations respect, but the US does not?
Outside of this, the _only_ way I can be charged with anything, at home, is if my home country has pass legistlation respecting that international treaty. The laws of the US, or non-ratified international treaties, are not relevant.
Further, you seem to think that I am somehow bound by a t-mobile TOS, otherwise the UN will come after me? This is actually what you have said, and it is beyond absurd! Regardless, there is no Canadian law that states that an object purchased from party A, automatically cases me to be forced into a TOS with party B.
Either way this is far off topic and if you really want to discuss it you can PM me and I will be happy to give you a canned response over and over and over again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh, you're the one that started getting all strange, with international trade law, strange statements about how I'm in violation of trade law for simply not agreeing to a t-mobile TOS, and so on.
My points were topical, as they are discussing the legal implications of this update proceedure, when one has no legal right to force it upon you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Didn't I say we were off topic? Send the rest in a PM and I will give you a canned response.

neoobs said:
Just don't whine and moan when google updates your phone and you are SOL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now what are you on about?! SOL? Are you suggesting that Google is now going to purposefully brick my phone?
After all, if you had read my previous posts, you would have seen that I have already updated from RC19, I had to manually. That's what we were initially discussing, after all.
Frankly, I think you've missed the point.
However, lastly, I really don't understand your attitude. First, it is not up to you to specify whether I 'whine and moan' about anything. I'll do what I damned well please, regardless of your opinion on the matter. Second, 'whining and moaning', or legal action against Google, as I was suggesting, is very important when just. Our legal system has many checks and bounds, but they are not useful if those breaching them are not taken to task.
Frankly, if you have any sort of open source bent, you should be irate about the concept of forced updates.

RegGuheert said:
The rumor is that they will NOT update phones that do not have one of the G1 data plans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a sim card withoud G1 data plan. It started to ask about RC30 update yesterday anyway. So, you got your update no matter who you are or where you are...
What I did today - I just removed the signed-RC30-bla-bla.zip file from the /cache/ folder and it stopped asking me. Not sure how I can get this update now, actually

Dimath said:
I have a sim card withoud G1 data plan. It started to ask about RC30 update yesterday anyway. So, you got your update no matter who you are or where you are...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you buy it from t-mobile, as a t-mobile customer? Did you buy it from someone that activated it as a t-mobile customer?
What I did today - I just removed the signed-RC30-bla-bla.zip file from the /cache/ folder and it stopped asking me. Not sure how I can get this update now, actually
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can download it and install it using the SD card method. You can also install anycut, and install it by forcing an update via that method as well.

BRad Barnett said:
Did you buy it from t-mobile, as a t-mobile customer? Did you buy it from someone that activated it as a t-mobile customer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, just preorder it from T-mobile. Wait, I didn't say I am not a T-mobile customer. I just have no G1 data plan, but my carrier is T-mobile USA.

New Law -Ok to Hack your Phone to another carrier now

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128772296
"Another exemption will allow owners of used cell phones to break access controls on their phones in order to switch wireless carriers."

Apple's restrictive obsession finally bit them in the a$$...

This is fine and dandy indeed, but do you really think the wireless service providers aren't going to throw heaps of lobbyist money to thwart this effort?

All phones in the USA should come sim unlocked prior to buying the phone. Carriers should worry and concentrate on their data supplied and packages.
Not worry about "locking" down cells lure buyers to their company because they sim locked the phone to their network.
USA needs too learn a few more things from Europe.

Yes but what about the case of Verizon phones where they don't use SIM cards? would they be required to switch to an "unlockable" phone setup? I'm thinking no, in which case what you may see in the case of other carriers is that their special phones (like iphone) are going to be locked down in the same manner as Verizon, i.e. SIM cardless

monty_boy said:
This is fine and dandy indeed, but do you really think the wireless service providers aren't going to throw heaps of lobbyist money to thwart this effort?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's apparently a done deal.
The DOJ has also launched a probe into the legality of the Apple/ATT deal... Something like 90% of their cases always win. So in other words, when the DOJ launches an investigation against you, you're screwed (they basically have the case built, just not officially).
Like I said earlier, Apple shot themselves in the foot with this one.

the problem si that there still lowed to put these restrictions on in the first place. there should be an option in a menu somewhere that says hey do you want to only user the appstore or would you like to be able to sideload apps. from those ive spoken to over 90% of people don't understand what a root or jailbreak is.

Hepæstus said:
Yes but what about the case of Verizon phones where they don't use SIM cards? would they be required to switch to an "unlockable" phone setup? I'm thinking no, in which case what you may see in the case of other carriers is that their special phones (like iphone) are going to be locked down in the same manner as Verizon, i.e. SIM cardless
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon and have been switching their phones over to sim compatible

is there a reason why the MOST IMPORTANT site isnt linked...
https://www.eff.org/press/archives/2010/07/26
GG KK THX BYE!

But... Warranty? will be void still? I don't see nothing about this.

Ummm... Maybe the NPR article took this out of context.
On EFF's request, the Librarian of Congress renewed a 2006 rule exempting cell phone unlocking so handsets can be used with other telecommunications carriers. Cell phone unlockers have been successfully sued under the DMCA, even though there is no copyright infringement involved in the unlocking. Digital locks on cell phones make it harder to resell, reuse, or recycle the handset, prompting EFF to ask for renewal of this rule on behalf of our clients, The Wireless Alliance, ReCellular and Flipswap. However, the 2009 rule has been modified so that it only applies to used mobile phones, not new ones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems to mean that the carrier can still lock them, they just can't refuse to unlock them after purchase (IE, after becoming "used").
newalopez said:
But... Warranty? will be void still? I don't see nothing about this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is all about copyright... In other words, you bought the device you can do what the hell you want with it and Apple can't sue you.
This doesn't mean the App Store is going away or anything else, it basically just establishes into law that Apple can't hold someone at fault for using a device the way they want to use it.
If you do things to the device that aren't supported, you're still SOL. If you pour anti-freeze into your oil of your vehicle, for instance, Toyota or whomever isn't going to support it if you don't follow their manual.
So yes, they still have every right to void your warranty. However as usual, flashing back to stock firmware will net you warranty terms again obviously.

Hhmmm...
How will this ever be enforced? Will the carriers do in store unlocks for "used" phones? Can me and a friend buy phones, sell it to each other for $1 and get them unlocked on the spot!?
...this is gonna be CHAOS! lol

Gootah said:
How will this ever be enforced? Will the carriers do in store unlocks for "used" phones? Can me and a friend buy phones, sell it to each other for $1 and get them unlocked on the spot!?
...this is gonna be CHAOS! lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it won't be chaos... It really doesn't change much. Instead of doing it after 180 days they're required to as soon as it's "used" (I guess as soon as you buy it??). It also establishes more of a no-questions-asked policy versus having to tell them you travel internationally or something.
The main gist of this thing was aimed at Apple, this just happened to be a side affect.

Well at least here in my country (Portugal), new law was approved this month, now carriers must unlock all phones for free at the end of the contracts.

In my opinion there are two sides to it :
1) If the Service Provider (Sprint, AT&T etc.) gives a subsidy or discount as part of the contract, they should be allowed to network lock the phones since the consumer has not paid the full price of the phone and not fulfilled the contract. However, with the completion of the contract, the service provider should unlock the phone for free.(I am only talking abt the network lock here)
2) If the consumer has paid the full amount, then the phones should come unlocked.
As far as 'Jailbreaking' or installing softwares is concerned, the consumer should have the right to do so in any of the above 2 cases since he is the owner/user of the phone. The Manufacturer or Service provider has NO right to lock that portion. However, they should have the right to void warranty as there is a chance that the user may install potetially harmfull sofware on the phone thereby damaging it.
However, if the law comes that people are able to network unlock their phones legally, there is a chance that the service providers might stop subsidising the phones and ask for upfront payment.

Mikey1022 said:
All phones in the USA should come sim unlocked prior to buying the phone. Carriers should worry and concentrate on their data supplied and packages.
Not worry about "locking" down cells lure buyers to their company because they sim locked the phone to their network.
USA needs too learn a few more things from Europe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i highly agree with you! they should work on providing better network, and data coverage i.e. ATT. they do have a fairly big clientele but is there service worth me moving from tmous. i dont think so. my x girl has att and she can barely get coverage in her house and we live in a city you would think got excellent coverage. SAN FRANCISCO!

Hepæstus said:
Yes but what about the case of Verizon phones where they don't use SIM cards? would they be required to switch to an "unlockable" phone setup? I'm thinking no, in which case what you may see in the case of other carriers is that their special phones (like iphone) are going to be locked down in the same manner as Verizon, i.e. SIM cardless
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think they should just phase out with the CDMA phones little by little and start intro'ing with the GSM'. same goes for sprint

Truth be told, CDMA is a superior technology but that's a debate for a different thread.
As far as Sprint and Verizon are concerned, their phones are just as "unlockable" as GSM handsets. MVNO carriers like Revol wireless and Page Plus live off of old beat up verizon and sprint phones. They simply need to be reflashed. With a little google-ing, it can be done fairly easily.

say goodbye to phone subsidies

Great deal. Now it would be a better deal if carriers stop installing crap and bloat that you can't remove or not giving root access to the phone owner which is silly imo, lets see how many are willing to buy a computer without admin rights.

[Q] Misleading warranty in Europe ??

Greetings all.
I was waiting for a long time for the Samsung Galaxy Tab 7.7 to come to Europe.
So when I saw that a UK vendor at ebay, with huge (700k) positive feedback listed it, I ordered it the same day.
Unfortunately when I got it I realised that there was an internal (on the inner side of the screen glass) scratch, apparently caused during assembly.
The vendor's listing states clearly that there is "1 year warranty".
But when I took the device to the authorised Samsung service provider here in Greece, after checking the serial number they found out that the specific device was produced for the Hong Kong market only, so it was not covered by warranty in Europe!
The vendor refused to take any action and only after bringing the issue to eBay Resolution Center they seem to change their mind and accept to replace it (I'm still waiting for the final arrangement).
Has anyone encountered a similar issue?
Is Samsung's warranty divided into world regions?
In any case, have the above in mind before buying...

Yes, many manufacturers have region specific warranties, and it makes perfect sense, as a company you do not want to be supporting your product in countries where it isn't for sale, as the costs involved in repairing/replacing it would be far greater.
It is the risk you have with buying from Ebay.

Have to admit that is one area apple excels in. If you have a problem with a product you can go to any apple store around the world and use your warranty

Dark lord me said:
Have to admit that is one area apple excels in. If you have a problem with a product you can go to any apple store around the world and use your warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although if you live in a country with no apple stores you're just as buggered, so it's exactly the same.

Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A

xaccers said:
Yes, many manufacturers have region specific warranties, and it makes perfect sense, as a company you do not want to be supporting your product in countries where it isn't for sale, as the costs involved in repairing/replacing it would be far greater.
It is the risk you have with buying from Ebay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is quite understandable.
What is not, is the misleading "1 year warranty" in the listing.
They should sate "1 year warranty in Hong Kong" or something similar.
Do people who live in Europe have the right to send a device to Hong Kong for repair under warranty?
Has anyone done this?

Rooted HTC vis-a-vis Warranty
As far as I can comment:
I went with my HTC One X that is rooted (by the way) to outlets in 3 countries, 3 instances, for repair. In Holland, the UAE and in Spain. My device was purchased through amazon.es. (Captain hindsight saves the day: I should've returnt the device and ask for a brand new one, I obviously had a blue monday copy)
The HTC warranty appears to be global. However, this one also appears to be void when you install a custom bootloader or do other stuff to your phone. Funny enough in both NL and UAE the service agents couldn't care less about the software, they just wiped the phone clean, repaired my defective hardware and kaching! Everyone happy.
The treatment in Spain was particularly rough, where the super-square Arvate España refused to repair under warranty. They claim the HTC warranty was voided, however in Europe a minimum of 2 year warranty on a phone exists that is not faulted by rooting or whatever other software manipulation. Threathening publication of their emails on twitter, copying emails to various Consumer Organisations (national and European) made them realise they better comply with the law and they are now fixing my issue. (p.s.: Amazon, when reviewing the case, immediately offered me a full money-back, as they could not provide a new HTC One X, 8 months after purchase; KUDOSSSS)
So from my experience, there are 2 levels of warranty with HTC:
1. HTC Special warranty, which seems to work seemlesly globally (KUDOS!!)
2. Your national statutory warranty
Here's more details on claiming the warranty on the rooted device: (would cross-post to XDA, but don't know where to put it)
http://www.htcmania.com/showthread.php?p=8942125#post8942125
Hope this helps?
Cheers
Peter

Unlock is going to be illegal?

Is this really what government should be focusing on? I mean really? I always get my phones unlocked. Some I buy unlocked like my current phone and some I get unlocked. Prior to April of last year I was with TMOUS for 13 years. I think I'm a loyal kind of guy but when I go overseas to Europe, etc I object to paying $15 per MB for data and $1.00-1.99 per minute and so I use my unlocked phone with a TMOUK SIM. Funny thing here is I was using TMO both sides even though the UK SIM still required and unlock.
Anyway, I just think this is bulls$it! Will this make all those unlocking sites in the USA illegal? Guess so.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...king-of-smartphones-becomes-illegal-saturday/

Not the unlock you are talking about. The illegal part refering to is often called jail break, not SIM unlock.

foxbat121 said:
Not the unlock you are talking about. The illegal part refering to is often called jail break, not SIM unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not so.
Unlocking your cell phone disables the SIM lock that limits your phone to operating on a specific network provider. With few exceptions, most cell phones come locked so that they can only operate with a single service provider. Unlocking your phone allows you to take it to a new provider.
This is the unlock that becomes illegal.

Soon unlocking will become legal in the united states. Google ulocking legal and you will get the whitehouse response for the petition to make unlocking legal (I'm a new member can't post links don't wanna get banned )

abhishek1234321 said:
Soon unlocking will become legal in the united states. Google ulocking legal and you will get the whitehouse response for the petition to make unlocking legal (I'm a new member can't post links don't wanna get banned )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except White House has no power to do that. It needs congress to pass new law. And a bill like that is in the works. But with so many budget fights upcoming. This new bill is certainly not on anyone's top list.

foxbat121 said:
Except White House has no power to do that. It needs congress to pass new law. And a bill like that is in the works. But with so many budget fights upcoming. This new bill is certainly not on anyone's top list.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it a bill that's needed or an FCC rule? An FCC rule/opinion would be much easier to to manifest than a congressional bill. Either way, the current status is a load of crap!

mobi said:
Is it a bill that's needed or an FCC rule? An FCC rule/opinion would be much easier to to manifest than a congressional bill. Either way, the current status is a load of crap!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The unlock currently falls under DMCA law. Not sure how much FCC can do to bypass that law.

foxbat121 said:
The unlock currently falls under DMCA law. Not sure how much FCC can do to bypass that law.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. Enforcement may be a bit of a problem though... Can you really imagine the government using all it's resources to stop little old me taking my AT&T phone to use on T-Mo? Any way you look at it, it's a load of crap and I'm sure that this is an unintended consequence.

There will always be unintended consequence of any law.
As for enforcement, all it takes is someone rat you out Like your ex.

Bootloader unlock warranty

Hi all,
Just a quick question on which I can't seem to find a good answer: Will unlocking my bootloader void my warranty? Or can I in case of defects just relock it and no one will notice?
Thanks in advance!

Yes, it would void your warranty.

When you unlock your bootloader, you send your unique identifier to the Motorola servers in order to unlock, so they can tell if you unlocked it even if you relock it.

Beegee7730 said:
When you unlock your bootloader, you send your unique identifier to the Motorola servers in order to unlock, so they can tell if you unlocked it even if you relock it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right.. So how can they tell if you actually did use the unlock code or not? The fact that you requested the code cannot warant that you actually used it. What if you change your mind last moment??

I see no harm nor foul in requesting the code and not using it. However, if you do use it the warranty is now invalid. If you unlock the boot loader and re-lock it, your warranty is still invalid as the phone never fully reverts to the factory state. That being said, I'm not sure how Motorola would handle a hardware defect on a phone with an unlocked boot loader as something like that would come from a manufacturing defect. You can always chat/call Motorola and ask them. Though I'm not so sure I'd expect a straight answer.
Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk

Arsgb said:
Yes, it would void your warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This again ???
If you live in an EU country, you have a two year Statutory Warranty, by law, transposed into local law from an EU Directive.
In the UK you have up to six years cover by law, which is actually stronger than the minimum EU statutory warranty. Check out Trading Standards website.
Do by all means Google "Apple EU warranty" to see where Apple had to change the terms of their warranty in EU countries, when they were sued by the EU in relation to this.
There is no way unlocking your bootloader invalidates this, unless the retailer or manufacturer can prove you have caused actual harm or damage.
Motorola's warning about "voiding" warranties reflects the fact that this can happen in the US, or Asia, South America.
But in the EU, there is much stronger consumer protection legislation, and Companies like Motorola,Google or Apple don't like this, but they are subject to it.
I have posted many links regarding this before, but people continue to ask, and assert misinformation.
Sent from my Moto G using TapaTalk

irishpancake said:
This again ???
If you live in an EU country, you have a two year Statutory Warranty, by law, transposed into local law from an EU Directive.
In the UK you have up to six years cover by law, which is actually stronger than the minimum EU statutory warranty. Check out Trading Standards website.
Do by all means Google "Apple EU warranty" to see where Apple had to change the terms of their warranty in EU countries, when they were sued by the EU in relation to this.
There is no way unlocking your bootloader invalidates this, unless the retailer or manufacturer can prove you have caused actual harm or damage.
Motorola's warning about "voiding" warranties reflects the fact that this can happen in the US, or Asia, South America.
But in the EU, there is much stronger consumer protection legislation, and Companies like Motorola,Google or Apple don't like this, but they are subject to it.
I have posted many links regarding this before, but people continue to ask, and assert misinformation.
Sent from my Moto G using TapaTalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perfection.

I've asked motorola europe and they told me that unlocking bootloader=void warranty

BurningKoala said:
I've asked motorola europe and they told me that unlocking bootloader=void warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sure you contacted The European support?
Sent from my XT1032 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

jufa2401 said:
You sure you contacted The European support?
Sent from my XT1032 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep, uk and also "rest of europe"

BurningKoala said:
yep, uk and also "rest of europe"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should be like irishpancake says, meaning that you only void the warranty if they can prove you damaged your device.
Sent from my XT1032 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

jufa2401 said:
It should be like irishpancake says, meaning that you only void the warranty if they can prove you damaged your device.
Sent from my XT1032 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So we can be on the safe side when unlocking bootloader? I also live in Denmark and i am actually not sure where they will take my phone to repair, since i bought my phone from amazon UK

In italy i sended in past a nexus 7 with totally screen broken, totally, and bl unlocked, in second year warranty. I received it with a NEW screen, bl LOCKED and last version installed. Here the consumer has always right. It s very difficult that bl unlocked and their proofs can beats the consumer here. The assistent centre says nothing. But obviously the OFFICIAL position of every company will be ALWAYS: if unlocked bl warranty is lost etc etc. In my country it s pratically impossible that they demonstrate the bl unlocked cause the problem. Here the consumer is protect. Luckly.

BurningKoala said:
I've asked motorola europe and they told me that unlocking bootloader=void warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They would say that, wouldn't they.
Apple said the same thing until the EU dragged them before the European Court, where they lost on appeal.
Would they refuse repair for a faulty phone, either malfunctioning or hardware related, which could not possibly be related to an unlocked bootloader??
Would the Retailer you buy from, if you did not purchase from Motorola directly, also refuse repair or replacement or refund, based on your definite EU two year warranty??
If Motorola persist in this, they will end up as Apple found out, massively fined by the EU, and forced to change the terms of their Euro Area Warranty.
I don't believe they would refuse based solely on an unlocked bootloader, BTW.
Unless the buyer has actually damaged his/her device, but no warranty will cover in the event of self inflicted damage or sabotage.
---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------
Lauriz7 said:
So we can be on the safe side when unlocking bootloader? I also live in Denmark and i am actually not sure where they will take my phone to repair, since i bought my phone from amazon UK
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be covered by Amazon, the retailer...that is who you have a contract with.
Amazon do honour warranties, and even pay for return postage. I have personal experience of this with Amazon UK, and I live in Ireland.
In general, if a retailer tells you to contact the Manufacturer, for warranty, you just tell them that is up to them, your contract is with the retailer.
That is contract law.
BTW. all above is just in the event of needing to have a phone either replaced, repaired or refunded, under EU Warranty, but rarely is it necessary, as most times devices function quite well, not requiring any recourse to warranty.
If you break a device by your own actions, either software or hardware wise, then you are responsible.
---------- Post added at 05:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------
denzel09 said:
In italy i sended in past a nexus 7 with totally screen broken, totally, and bl unlocked, in second year warranty. I received it with a NEW screen, bl LOCKED and last version installed. Here the consumer has always right. It s very difficult that bl unlocked and their proofs can beats the consumer here. The assistent centre says nothing. But obviously the OFFICIAL position of every company will be ALWAYS: if unlocked bl warranty is lost etc etc. In my country it s pratically impossible that they demonstrate the bl unlocked cause the problem. Here the consumer is protect. Luckly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is as it is in all EU countries, but I will admit, Italy took the action against Apple, which has brought the 2-year EU Statutory Warranty into focus...
congrats to Italy for this, which forced Apple to comply:
Apple was fined €900,000 by the Italian Antitrust Authority for not providing consumers with information regarding EU-protected warranty rights, instead misleading customers and pushing their own paid-for warranty, Applecare.
Under EU consumer law, buyers are automatically entitled to a free minimum two-year warranty.
The European Commission also received complaints from 11 countries about Apple’s advertising of product warranties.
But approaches to enforcement of consumer protections differ by country and are inconsistent at a national level, Reding said Tuesday. In Finland and Hungary misleading information appeared to have been removed from Apple websites. No information was available from Malta, Romania, Slovakia and Latvia. In all other countries there were still outstanding concerns.
Read more: http://www.techcentral.ie/eu-commissioner-takes-aim-at-apple-warranties/#ixzz2oDz4X7mH
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

@irishpancake
Yup, italian antitrust is really good luckly.

denzel09 said:
@irishpancake
Yup, italian antitrust is really good luckly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It took years to get apple to give a 2 years lasting warranty. I wouldn't call that "good" since many people had to get their lawyers to contact apple in order to get their iDevice repaired...
Also, 900k€ are NOTHING for apple

pinsicchio said:
It took years to get apple to give a 2 years lasting warranty. I wouldn't call that "good" since many people had to get their lawyers to contact apple in order to get their iDevice repaired...
Also, 900k€ are NOTHING for apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any amount ll be always too law for apple.
I don t know about idevice. I never purchased an idevice. Luckly.
For my experience with "android" world i never had problems with "service centers" and rom/unblocked bl/other, in the 2 warranty years.

People tend to conflate warranties with rights when in fact they're completely different. The warranty could say "not valid if you have ginger hair" but it wouldn't affect your rights one bit. Just remember the phrase "does not affect your statutory rights"

pinsicchio said:
It took years to get apple to give a 2 years lasting warranty. I wouldn't call that "good" since many people had to get their lawyers to contact apple in order to get their iDevice repaired...
Also, 900k€ are NOTHING for apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is the legal precedent which matters, not individual outcomes.
What applies to Apple, applies to all, in relation to the statutory warranty.
Whose side are you on, the rights of corporations who phuck ppl over, or the side of the consumer??
Ppl here say, "but, but Moto says void warranty".....so what??
They are wrong, as Apple found out.
There is consumer protection in the EU, it is up to ppl to insist on their rights, not to roll over and play dead.
No doubt Moto would prefer no consumer protection at all. Like most Big Corporations.
Sent from my Moto G using TapaTalk

irishpancake said:
It is the legal precedent which matters, not individual outcomes.
What applies to Apple, applies to all, in relation to the statutory warranty.
Whose side are you on, the rights of corporations who phuck ppl over, or the side of the consumer??
Ppl here say, "but, but Moto says void warranty".....so what??
They are wrong, as Apple found out.
There is consumer protection in the EU, it is up to ppl to insist on their rights, not to roll over and play dead.
No doubt Moto would prefer no consumer protection at all. Like most Big Corporations.
Sent from my Moto G using TapaTalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on the costumer's side, in fact I said that amount of money is nothing for apple because i hoped apple got a higher fine; also, I hope it took less than years to fine apple. I think you didn't understand my comment