Xperia E. C1504/C1505/C1604/C1605. Stock ftfs + flashable .zips - Sony Xperia Miro, Tipo (Dual), J, E
Hello guys,
These are stock .ftf’s. What does that mean? Well, these are just all the available firmwares for our single and dual Xperia E devices that have been released officially by Sony. You can use these to flash with Flashtool, to get, for example, out of a bootloop/soft brick. Or if you want to flash CWM, you will need 11.3.A.0.47 as your firmware(on E single). That’s what they basically do. For additional information, if you’re unsure what to do, and how to use these, please ask in this thread.
Follow this great, and easy to follow tutorial to flash the firmwares using Flashtool: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2240614
Note: Mirrors aren’t guaranteed to work! Please keep that in mind. The ones I’ve uploaded are all tested, and work fine!
Note 2: DO NOT SPAM THIS THREAD WITH QUESTIONS LIKE: ‘’OMG, I’m such a noob, I have no idea how to use this, but I want it. Sorry for my bad english blabla! Help me, otherwise I’m going to commit suicide! ‘’
Well, you get the idea. Please, use this thread only for reporting corrupted .ftf’s or bad download links, and not to post stupid questions that can be solved with a small Google/XDA search.
Thank you in advance!
Xperia E. C1504/C1505/C1604/C1605. Stock ftfs + flashable .zips(deodexed added)
E single(C1504/C1505):
11.3.A.0.47:
Mine: http://www.mediafire.com/download/4tbnsy3cqi35anf/C1505_11.3.A.0.47_CE.ftf
Mirror: http://d-h.st/ufn
11.3.A.2.13:
Mine: http://www.4shared.com/file/x0pVTrgD/113A213.html
Mirror: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx_YEvKLW9OOMV9PRTJZdGppQTg/edit
The mirror is branded from a Phone from Portugal with Vodafone set as provider. It has a lot of junk apps that can only be removed by rooting your device. My upload is fine though.
11.3.A.2.23:
Mine: https://www.mediafire.com/?3fmmkbmlqtjd6cy
Mirror: http://www.xperiablog.net/forum/resources/xperia-e_c1505_11-3-a-2-23_vietnam_generic.145/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E dual(C1604/1605):
11.1.A.0.68:
Mine: http://www.4shared.com/file/h76DT8en/111A068.html
Mirror: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxYsXyfLuDmwUFdXSk1NR0hhRlE/edit
11.3.A.1.3.9:
Mine: http://www.4shared.com/file/u9U2ak4H/113A139.html
Mirror: http://www.mediafire.com/download/9781xrit7ib37to/Xperia+E+Dual+C1605_11.3.A.1.39_Europe.ftf
11.3.A.2.1:
Mine: http://www.4shared.com/file/55QLW02n/113A21.html
Mirror: https://mega.co.nz/#!AJ5WUQrZ!cXvUuXz1Z8E5K2qxK_XvTwstg4QVCraYbJKa8Sb2r9o
Flashable .zips:
One containing the 11.3.A.2.23 firmware for the E single and one containing the 11.3.A.2.1 firmware for the E dual.
These are for the people with an unlocked bootloader and a recovery that forgot to take a Nandroid and are in a bootloop(or simply want to revert to stock). The zips are debloated and have root access.
Note: if you are flashing this from CM10 you must first flash any stock based kernel(Zeus for example)!
Installation process:
1. Copy the appropiate .zip onto your phone.
2. Boot into recovery(CWM/TWRP).
3. Wipe data(hard reset).
4. Go to ''mounts and storage'' and format system.
5. Mount system.
6. Flash the .zip.
7. Boot into stock.
Downloads:
E single: https://mega.co.nz/#!CpphDTjA!nDzfkz1E9Q9xqbr3xE9CY0A-4xbwnUV65vsnHU-W6og
E dual: https://mega.co.nz/#!u8wQRTDb!fLGWs2eKgq202KvzF1ZtAzAM03sxsohaYWnlvCxZbYk
Deodexed:
I created a flashable deodexed 11.3.A.2.23 as requested. It's only features are that I have debloated and prerooted it. Please flash the 11.3.A.2.23.ftf first, or the installation will fail.
How to install:
1. Flash the 11.3.A.2.23.ftf first.
2. Place the .zip onto your phone.
3. Boot into recovery(CWM/TWRP).
4. Wipe data(hard reset).
5. Go to ''mounts and storage'' and format system.
6. Mount system.
7. Flash the .zip.
8. Boot into your new deodexed firmware
Download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6-n6J0wUrhtUFRmR0ItNDRKSkE/edit?usp=sharing
Again: please report corrupted downloads/bad .ftf’s here.
Enjoy!
Could this please be made a sticky by a moderator? I think this can come in handy for many people!
GOOD POST!
Could this please be made a sticky? It has alreay faded away to the second page... Thank you in advance!
GOOD POST!
Add and ROMS , MODS , Themes ... please !
Sorry for my bad English !
11.3.A.1.3.9 and 11.3.A.2.1 For Xperia E Dual..
whats the difference? which one's better?
---------- Post added at 02:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------
11.3.A.1.3.9 and 11.3.A.2.1 For Xperia E Dual..
whats the difference? which one's better?
11.3.A.2.1 is Jellybean . It is supposed to be faster and smoother. But check out yourself :good:
I guess it's time for a bump...
Sent by magic!
DanielFlorin said:
GOOD POST!
Add and ROMS , MODS , Themes ... please !
Sorry for my bad English !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is already an official thread made by me in this thread. Find it.
UltraGamerHD said:
There is already an official thread made by me in this thread. Find it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UltraGamer, could you add this post in your thread? Would be much appreciated! ^^
Sent by magic!
MatsPunt said:
UltraGamer, could you add this post in your thread? Would be much appreciated! ^^
Sent by magic!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK No Problem!
UltraGamerHD said:
OK No Problem!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!
Sent by magic!
Hey guys,
Finally, I've got the change to re-upload the corrupted 11.3.A.0.47 ftf for the E single . If you're too lazy to check the OP:
Mine: http://www.mediafire.com/download/4tbnsy3cqi35anf/C1505_11.3.A.0.47_CE.ftf
Mirror: http://d-h.st/ufn
Hope it might help you out!
Have a nice day!
MatsPunt said:
Hey guys,
Finally, I've got the change to re-upload the corrupted 11.3.A.0.47 ftf for the E single . If you're too lazy to check the OP:
Mine: http://www.mediafire.com/download/4tbnsy3cqi35anf/C1505_11.3.A.0.47_CE.ftf
Mirror: http://d-h.st/ufn
Hope it might help you out!
Have a nice day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi!, can you help me, i have an xperia e dual C6104 and i try to download files for make mi own ftf with Jelly bean but i need exactly with this product code C1604 - 1270-9591 - C1604/Mobile Phone/Customized US/Black i tried changing via root explorer and downloading via Sony PC Companion and Sony Update Service from but i can't download any, it said that isn't possible by this moment, i relock my bootloader, i install my current ftf file from here http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-j-e/general/firmware-xperia-e-dual-c1604-brasil-t2345212 excuse my poor english i speak spanish, thank you for you atention
Hey everyone,
Had some time left so I made these 2 flashable .zips.
One containing the 11.3.A.2.23 firmware for the E single and one containing the 11.3.A.2.1 firmware for the E dual.
These are for the people with an unlocked bootloader and a recovery that forgot to take a Nandroid and are in a bootloop(or simply want to revert to stock). The zips are debloated and have root access.
Installation process:
1. Copy the appropiate .zip onto your phone.
2. Boot into recovery(CWM/TWRP).
3. Wipe data(hard reset).
4. Go to ''mounts and storage'' and format system.
5. Mount system.
6. Flash the .zip.
7. Boot into stock.
Downloads:
E single: https://mega.co.nz/#!CpphDTjA!nDzfkz1E9Q9xqbr3xE9CY0A-4xbwnUV65vsnHU-W6og
E dual: https://mega.co.nz/#!u8wQRTDb!fLGWs2eKgq202KvzF1ZtAzAM03sxsohaYWnlvCxZbYk
Hope it can be useful for someone!
Mats
Caith said:
Hi!, can you help me, i have an xperia e dual C6104 and i try to download files for make mi own ftf with Jelly bean but i need exactly with this product code C1604 - 1270-9591 - C1604/Mobile Phone/Customized US/Black i tried changing via root explorer and downloading via Sony PC Companion and Sony Update Service from but i can't download any, it said that isn't possible by this moment, i relock my bootloader, i install my current ftf file from here http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-j-e/general/firmware-xperia-e-dual-c1604-brasil-t2345212 excuse my poor english i speak spanish, thank you for you atention
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where are you from?
S.U.S should provide you with your required firmware only if your build.prop is correct.
I assume you have a good internet connection?
Sent straight from my Xperia E Dual
good one...
Ryshic12 said:
Where are you from?
S.U.S should provide you with your required firmware only if your build.prop is correct.
I assume you have a good internet connection?
Sent straight from my Xperia E Dual
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello, no, S.U.S. don´t detect any update or restore for my smartphone, it always say that its no posible check at the moment, i edit my build.prop for update to JB but restore with the original product code "12709-9591" i'm from Colombia but my smartphone was imported from U.S.A. my internet connection, sure it's good an ADSL conection to 5MB/S.
@MatsPunt change 'E double' to' E dual 'in OP!.......people with Edual dont like the name Double! LOLOLOLOL
Related
[E Dual][JB]11.3.A.2.1 Firmware Downloadable FTF file
Here is the latest Android Jellybean 4.1.1 .FTF file for Xperia E Dual [C1605](Download here) This can be flashed via FlashTool (Download here) How to do it all? Source - XperiaFirmware.com
it says too many downloads on the google drive page. can u upload it again somewhere else?? thanks in advance.
Cool! I was waiting for it to go public. Do you think we can backport it to Tipo Dual?
can anybody give link for the Indian firmware....
Help me Hello guyes, is there any way to install it or any other ROM without pc in my Xperia E Dual?
Well, you could download it using your browser, and place it in the desired folder, but that's going to take a while . In the meanwhile check this thread by me, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2553609 It provides every stock .ftf out there for our e single/e dual. Have a nice day, and good luck.
Root Sony Xperia E C1505 11.A.2.13 single SIM
oke Dude, Lets do it :victory: You Need Flashtool and Goodluck 1. Download and Flash kernel 11.3.A.0.47.ftf 2. Install Frameroot, open it chose Gandalf, when it done. Restart Your Phone, and you will see SuperSU 3. Flash back to kernel 11.A.2.13.ftf 4. Done and Enjoy NOTE : My Phone Unlocked Bootloader Click to expand... Click to collapse Download File Needed Below E Single SIM
Reserved
Reserved
how to root Hello, hope you doin good. I need some help please. Can you please tell me on details. I mean how to unlock bootloader first. and how to run ftf file and frameroot? im sorry ive never done this kind of things before. ive downloaded all files but need detailed instruction please. im using sony xperia e c1505 single sim. thank you.
Def0090 said: Hello, hope you doin good. I need some help please. Can you please tell me on details. I mean how to unlock bootloader first. and how to run ftf file and frameroot? im sorry ive never done this kind of things before. ive downloaded all files but need detailed instruction please. im using sony xperia e c1505 single sim. thank you. Click to expand... Click to collapse first do root and learn root stuff bootloader unlock comes later
Works
Nice ewentualpl said: Works Click to expand... Click to collapse Nice bro . . .
[Q] [Help] Installation of CM11 Android v4.4.4
Hey there, I'm completely new to flashing and other stuff. I really love CM11 (just by seeing it's screenshots in the group) and would love to have it on my Xperia L! I have the latest version and firmware and it is rooted. What I'd love to see is Varun Chitre's CM11.. but the problem is.. I'm completely noob. I don't know where to start with. Can someone give me a step by step instructions, PLEASE? My warranty has expired and I'd love to learn new things, modify and customize my xL! I have downloaded the cm-11-20140620-UNOFFICIAL-taoshan.zip from the given website, and I'm confused what to do now. The thread of the development: http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-l/orig-development/ldevelopment-cm11-android-4-4-t2735551 Do I need to download anything else except the cm11taoshan.zip (the original file download link of 210mb)? I already own Flashtool and I've downloaded the main 4.4.4 free xperia project file. I'm confused what to do now.. Thanks in advance Ayush
First you must root your device, next do a backup of drm files, next unlock bootloader next flash kernel and install CM11 from your internal sdcard. All tutorials you have in Xperia L-> General
Can anyone give me the ftf link of the latest firmware update? I cannot find a working link! Thanks in advance. EDIT: Im from India
iAyush said: Can anyone give me the ftf link of the latest firmware update? I cannot find a working link! Thanks in advance. EDIT: Im from India Click to expand... Click to collapse http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-l/general/sony-xperia-l-flashable-ftfs-locked-t2560642
[C2304] Success in creating FTF for Brazil stock update 16.0.B.2.13!
Stock FTF for C2304 Brazilian version 16.0.b.2.13! Hello guys!!!! So, many friends of mine had many bugs after flashing global firmware for our XC2304 (BRAZIL) from update service, the bugs are: Battery draining more faster after 30% / 15%; In Settings, the Model Number is C2305, instead of the real [C2304], its a big problem to wait future update for 4.3/4.4; Some screen issues after flashing a global firmware; Problems to flash a stock rom for XC2304, can't update/factory reset from sony update service, or by perfect flash/flashtools. I'm really curious why my C2304 doesn't appears C2305 on settings after global flashing, but if you are having the same problem, I create a FTF file from my last update firmware: 16.0.b.2.13. For who wants/needs it can be downloaded from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz43ZZUVLZKLSVg5bFh2a1V5SGM/edit?usp=sharing TIPS: DON'T FORGET TO FLASH THIS FTF FILE FROM PERFECT FLASH, ONLY WORKS ON IT!; DON'T WORRY IF ON FLASHING PROCESS, THE PROGRESS BAR STACK IT ON 97%, ITS NORMAL; GRAB A COFFEE, WAIT UNTIL PROCESS FINISH AND TURN ON YOUR DEVICE; IF THE FTF FILE WORKS/DOESN'T WORKS PLEASE TELL ME!:good: ******IF IT WORKS FOR YOU, DON'T FORGET TO THANK OK? I'M HERE TO HELP BRAZILIAN OWNERS OF XC2304******
Thanks man, I was looking for this ROM, thank you very much
is that safe for my xperia c????? sid_reis said: Stock FTF for C2304 Brazilian version 16.0.b.2.13! Hello guys!!!! So, many friends of mine had many bugs after flashing global firmware for our XC2304 (BRAZIL) from update service, the bugs are: Battery draining more faster after 30% / 15%; In Settings, the Model Number is C2305, instead of the real [C2304], its a big problem to wait future update for 4.3/4.4; Some screen issues after flashing a global firmware; Problems to flash a stock rom for XC2304, can't update/factory reset from sony update service, or by perfect flash/flashtools. I'm really curious why my C2304 doesn't appears C2305 on settings after global flashing, but if you are having the same problem, I create a FTF file from my last update firmware: 16.0.b.2.13. For who wants/needs it can be downloaded from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz43ZZUVLZKLSVg5bFh2a1V5SGM/edit?usp=sharing TIPS: DON'T FORGET TO FLASH THIS FTF FILE FROM PERFECT FLASH, ONLY WORKS ON IT!; DON'T WORRY IF ON FLASHING PROCESS, THE PROGRESS BAR STACK IT ON 97%, ITS NORMAL; GRAB A COFFEE, WAIT UNTIL PROCESS FINISH AND TURN ON YOUR DEVICE; IF THE FTF FILE WORKS/DOESN'T WORKS PLEASE TELL ME!:good: ******IF IT WORKS FOR YOU, DON'T FORGET TO THANK OK? I'M HERE TO HELP BRAZILIAN OWNERS OF XC2304****** Click to expand... Click to collapse is that safe to flash using WMShua perfect brush... ??? beacuase i use c2305-generic user.ftf ---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 PM ---------- ACSony said: Thanks man, I was looking for this ROM, thank you very much Click to expand... Click to collapse please tell if safe... give me more screen shot
mohammedbsayed said: is that safe to flash using WMShua perfect brush... ??? beacuase i use c2305-generic user.ftf ---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 PM ---------- please tell if safe... give me more screen shot Click to expand... Click to collapse Its safe ok, one friend of mine had the same problem about flashing a c2305 generic FTF, but its the real stock .13 FTF for C2304, but don't forget to know that your device is REALLY a Xperia C2304! [south america/Brazil version]! I let some screenshots, don't worry, it works very well for who was needed it.
sid_reis said: Its safe ok, one friend of mine had the same problem about flashing a c2305 generic FTF, but its the real stock .13 FTF for C2304, but don't forget to know that your device is REALLY a Xperia C2304! [south america/Brazil version]! I let some screenshots, don't worry, it works very well for who was needed it. Click to expand... Click to collapse " okay thanks for your info.. one question.. i flash the global generic.ftf chinesse to WMShua..!!! its okay to flash again the brazil stock?? and is this a english ? can u give me more instruction or screenshot to how install... and what rom are u use? by the way im very very glad... to hear that this brazil stock are safe... thanks man... ---------- Post added at 05:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 AM ---------- mohammedbsayed said: " okay thanks for your info.. one question.. i flash the global generic.ftf chinesse to WMShua..!!! its okay to flash again the brazil stock?? and is this a english ? can u give me more instruction or screenshot to how install... and what rom are u use? by the way im very very glad... to hear that this brazil stock are safe... thanks man... Click to expand... Click to collapse can you add the screen shot of your stock application !!! may i see... !! thanks )
sid_reis said: Its safe ok, one friend of mine had the same problem about flashing a c2305 generic FTF, but its the real stock .13 FTF for C2304, but don't forget to know that your device is REALLY a Xperia C2304! [south america/Brazil version]! I let some screenshots, don't worry, it works very well for who was needed it. Click to expand... Click to collapse after that ... there's no software update on my setting ?? were gone ?? please give screenshot
sid_reis said: Its safe ok, one friend of mine had the same problem about flashing a c2305 generic FTF, but its the real stock .13 FTF for C2304, but don't forget to know that your device is REALLY a Xperia C2304! [south america/Brazil version]! I let some screenshots, don't worry, it works very well for who was needed it. Click to expand... Click to collapse waaaaaaahhhhh operation failed... because my xperia c... is original name are c2305... not match on my phone the c2304...brazil stock... then if if go to flash my phone will be break.. !!!! please help.. me... i dont want to use the global generic.ftf... because.. some bugs issue.. help me/// please
mohammedbsayed said: after that ... there's no software update on my setting ?? were gone ?? please give screenshot Click to expand... Click to collapse No, it's normal. I tested many others FTF files (GLOBAL/CHINESE/INDIAN), and this rom is the more stable that I've used. If you want to check for updates, use update service on desktop. For us is not o problem because one update for 4.3/4.4 isn't programed until now. So don't worry about it!
Are you flashing with Perfect Flash?
WMShua Perfect Brush.. chinese.. sid_reis said: Are you flashing with Perfect Flash? Click to expand... Click to collapse yup i use... but this ftf not match on my phone.. because.. the real name is C2305.. if i flash this ftf.. we will break my phone ?? please tell me... what should i do !!
mohammedbsayed said: yup i use... but this ftf not match on my phone.. because.. the real name is C2305.. if i flash this ftf.. we will break my phone ?? please tell me... what should i do !! Click to expand... Click to collapse It will not break your phone ok, don't worry. A friend of mine here in Brazil was using a Global ftf (for c2305, but his XC was c2304 actually), so if you try to flash with Perfect Flash I think It doesn't will brick your XC. Just try and tell me if it works for u!
sid_reis said: It will not break your phone ok, don't worry. A friend of mine here in Brazil was using a Global ftf (for c2305, but his XC was c2304 actually), so if you try to flash with Perfect Flash I think It doesn't will brick your XC. Just try and tell me if it works for u! Click to expand... Click to collapse Ey guys,I recently unbricked my phone with the generic firmware and after that I got issues with hspa+,my download speeds are now +-50kbps..and the firmware has two umts bands supported,will this brazillian firmware solve the issue
mabaso said: Ey guys,I recently unbricked my phone with the generic firmware and after that I got issues with hspa+,my download speeds are now +-50kbps..and the firmware has two umts bands supported,will this brazillian firmware solve the issue Click to expand... Click to collapse Dude, for me HSPA+ is working very good, even here in Manaus our 3g service is a kick in the ba**ls. So, try to flash this ftf that I create for us. For me, this is the most stable that i've used since I bought this XC.
Fala galera! alguém sabe me explicar como flashear esta rom no meu celular? Perco a garantia se fizer isso? Vlw!
script for flashing via FlashTool PLEASE HAVE AS PROVIDE THE SCRIPT for flashing AS ROM'S THE XPERIA C VIA FlashTool, AS THE SAME AND BETTER FOR FLASH PROCEDURE, NOT FROM TO FLASH FOR THE SCRIPT THAT APPEARS AND XPERIA C2305 And I've looked EVERYWHERE FOR DOWNLOAD AND DO NOT THINK IN ANY PLACE AS AVAILABLE IF THE FILE FOLDER C230X FOR 2304 WILL BE VERY gRATEFUL, THANK YOU FROM JA. THROUGH THIS SAME SCRIPT YOU GOTTA DO THE FILE FTF PROPERLY ADDING A VERSION AND BUNDLE. THAT SAME SCRIPT TO SERVE THE FLASH ROM'S
CWM Flashable backup Hi there Does anyone got a CWM flashable backup from this firmware here?, I lost the SIM card recognition by loading ROMs for the C2305 and I can't flash this firmware because of the firewalls at my office (it blocks the WMShua) I turned my phone into a pretty nice tablet, can't use it anymore for callings Thank you guys
File not found hi guys, the file in google drive is not online , please send another link Or better if you can help me , I installed the android 5.0 on my Xperia C c2304 and did not like, want the original back. thank you eae galera, o arquivo no google drive não esta online, por favor mandem outro link. Ou melhor se vcs poderem me ajudar, instalei o android 5.0 no meu Xperia C c2304 e não gostei, quero o original de volta. obrigado
GhostP said: hi guys, the file in google drive is not online , please send another link Or better if you can help me , I installed the android 5.0 on my Xperia C c2304 and did not like, want the original back. thank you eae galera, o arquivo no google drive não esta online, por favor mandem outro link. Ou melhor se vcs poderem me ajudar, instalei o android 5.0 no meu Xperia C c2304 e não gostei, quero o original de volta. obrigado Click to expand... Click to collapse Me too !!!
Link broken Hi guys, the file in google drive is not online , please send another link.
Offline link LINK OFF
Hi,I am new to Xda.Need your help.
Hi, I am new to Xda. I have successfully fixed carbon ROM(kitkat 4.4.4) for Sony Xperia SLT26ii. I modified it to 'Asterisk' (new name). I want to help poor teens like me(I am just 15) still stuck with sony Xperia SLT26ii. I need to know how to upload it to Xda. Regards, Fazeel CF P.S :- May have misplaced this thread. And I have successfully flashed the above ROM using CWM(Doomlord exploit).:good:
Fazeel.C.Faizal said: Hi, I am new to Xda. I have successfully fixed carbon ROM(kitkat 4.4.4) for Sony Xperia SLT26ii. I modified it to 'Asterisk' (new name). I want to help poor teens like me(I am just 15) still stuck with sony Xperia SLT26ii. I need to know how to upload it to Xda. Regards, Fazeel CF P.S :- May have misplaced this thread. And I have successfully flashed the above ROM using CWM(Doomlord exploit).:good: Click to expand... Click to collapse Almost forgot you need not worry about update-script error I have fixed it too.
I found out how to upload files and I am thinking mediafire. The link to ROM: http://www.mediafire.com/file/b8o9iublv7wweuk/CARBON-KK-UNOFFICIAL-20140907-1315-nozomi.zip The link to GApps: http://www.mediafire.com/file/gbl447raq2fb5z2/gapps-kk-20131119.zip I dont know if this is the correct thread. Regards, Fazeel.
Wow, i also new