Database Info

Privacy Concerns - Google Firmware

I am concerned that Google has their tentacles all throughout the OS, and I want to take all measures to stop that. I particularly don't like their search query tracking (I use ixquick) and their nav app, as their privacy policies are atrocious.
Before someone accuses me of being a hacker or criminal, I am simply not willing to hand over my 220 year old Constitutional rights for a transient fear campaign manufactured by The Machine. And I do not want my information used for profit without permission. I used to be a cracker, and know what is possible. I'll not respond to those who call me 'paranoid'; they are oblivious.
Of course I'll not be using the apps of that-search-engine-everybody-uses. Removing them forthwith, in favor of whatever GPL open-source apps there are available for various functions. Using self-contained nav software like CoPilot or TomTom.
So, have any devs investigated whether Android phones home at any interval? Have measures been taken to privacy-enable the Android firmware?
I hear that HTC has some sort of 'phone home' function. How to neuter that?
What good is Wifi? Is it that you can use that when available, not using up 3G bytes? I am asking what use it is on a mobile in consideration of mobility and the security problems -- what uses can this be put to, and how to secure the phone?
Where is the best place to find open-source apps?

I'm curious about this as well, not so much from a privacy standpoint, but how the hell can I stop the mysterious data that is flowing out of my phone when everything like background syncing and all data connections are turned off.

http://source.android.com/
This is all you need - you could remove/modify anything you want, so... what's your problem? And actually Google apps aren't in the Android sources, so you won't have them after compiling. Yeah, two birds with one stone.
Also you could disable WiFi if you don't like it.
Tachikoma_kun said:
how the hell can I stop the mysterious data that is flowing out of my phone when everything like background syncing and all data connections are turned off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr... what ROM and how many apps do you have installed? There is no "mysterious data" on clean system, but 25% of apps use data connection for various reasons.

I'm on the stock 2.1 ROM for the Samsung Galaxy S. I turn all the background syncing, email, and stuff like that off, and overnight it can use about 1MB of data.
I don't have any "free" apps running that might download new banners or anything like that.

The background syncing does not turn anything off as far as I know.
To my knowledge it allows 3rd party apps the ability to check if the user has flagged this, but they do not have to respect this flag.

Tachikoma_kun said:
I'm on the stock 2.1 ROM for the Samsung Galaxy S. I turn all the background syncing, email, and stuff like that off, and overnight it can use about 1MB of data.
I don't have any "free" apps running that might download new banners or anything like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Syncing is just... syncing. But there are many other things, that apps do. Spare Parts -> Battery history -> Network usage.

Brut.all said:
http://source.android.com/
This is all you need - you could remove/modify anything you want, so... what's your problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's my problem, LOL? I am a 52yo real estate developer, not a coder. This is why I'm asking the question.

Quantumstate said:
What's my problem, LOL? I am a 52yo real estate developer, not a coder. This is why I'm asking the question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think he meant either put up or shut up, which is a pretty reasonable statement.
IMO it's anonymous user data.... let them build cybernet
otherwise say no to the T.O.S that is your constitutional right if you have "privacy" concerns

Brut.all said:
Syncing is just... syncing. But there are many other things, that apps do. Spare Parts -> Battery history -> Network usage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will give that a try.

themapleboy said:
i think he meant either put up or shut up, which is a pretty reasonable statement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant we all have access to the sources, so we don't have to "investigate" what Android exactly does - we just know, that it doesn't do any "mysterious" things. There are many people working with these sources for many months, I doubt there are some undiscovered things.

Brut.all said:
I meant we all have access to the sources, so we don't have to "investigate" what Android exactly does - we just know, that it doesn't do any "mysterious" things. There are many people working with these sources for many months, I doubt there are some undiscovered things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u know what they say about assuming...... it always makes you look like a jackass

Yeah, I mean we're not playing with iOS4 or anything.
In all seriousness, Android's been out for quite a while now and has been looked at by a LOT of people. Not saying that it's *impossible* but it's highly unlikely that anything nefarious is going on.
If you're still concerned, I suppose you could always opt not to install the Google Apps, but you'd be a bit limited, functionality-wise.
Sent from my Droid using XDA App

themapleboy said:
let them build cybernet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
O' little do you know... many years ago I did work in Eastern Europe. You have no idea the paranoia a society can endure. For an idea, watch the old TV series Danger Man. Or the movie 1984.
If most young people share your view, it is a dark future. I'm glad I'll be dead.
herald83 said:
In all seriousness, Android's been out for quite a while now and has been looked at by a LOT of people. Not saying that it's *impossible* but it's highly unlikely that anything nefarious is going on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understand. I just can not believe though that Google is not harvesting some sort of information, as that's their business model. They never discard any info they receive, and you can build a shockingly accurate portrait of someone from their searches over time. Google's CEO recently said, "If You Have Something You Don't Want Anyone To Know, Maybe You Shouldn't Be Doing It", echoing the Bush Doctrine of a Police State.
Maybe Android is innocuous for now, and I'm sure it's been examined. But I'm wondering what the results were? Why are ppl seeing data outflows?

I smell a rat...
Quantumstate said:
...Before someone accuses me of being a hacker or criminal, I am simply not willing to hand over my 220 year old Constitutional rights for a transient fear campaign manufactured by The Machine. And I do not want my information used for profit without permission. I used to be a cracker, and know what is possible. I'll not respond to those who call me 'paranoid'; they are oblivious...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quantumstate said:
What's my problem, LOL? I am a 52yo real estate developer, not a coder. This is why I'm asking the question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A 52yo real estate developer, whose not a coder, but used to be a "cracker" and knows what is possible? Anyone else here think this doesn't make a bit of sense?
It's funny, but it sounds like someone is trying to stir up some FUD by making claims that Android is somehow doing an "All your data are belong to us...". I hope Apple aren't paying your cheques!

@perpetualmotionuk: Be advised that there is a difference between mathematics and decryption, and coding. Yes I can do some coding, but not at a level necessary to analyze and modify an operating system.
If Apple were paying my 'cheques', wouldn't I come in with some sort of proof that monitoring is taking place? Rather than asking what others have found?
Now, rather than trying to tear people down, why don't you use that considerable nose to investigate this yourself?

No one's seen anything about info leakage?

Quantumstate said:
Understand. I just can not believe though that Google is not harvesting some sort of information, as that's their business model. They never discard any info they receive, and you can build a shockingly accurate portrait of someone from their searches over time. Google's CEO recently said, "If You Have Something You Don't Want Anyone To Know, Maybe You Shouldn't Be Doing It", echoing the Bush Doctrine of a Police State.
Maybe Android is innocuous for now, and I'm sure it's been examined. But I'm wondering what the results were? Why are ppl seeing data outflows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of that data is pulled from search history, I suspect. Which you can disable, if I recall. Don't have my phone on me at the moment to confirm.

I just did a very simple test on an emulator: after ~15 minutes of running system there was 0 (zero, null) of network packets. Now I want to do the same on a device with clean system, but I think results will be the same or similar (SDK system is just normal Android - very similar to these from devices).
I have a feeling that even if I will catch zero packets as well, you will be asking whether Google send something mysterious through... errr... bluetooth? Some hidden antenna?

If you're worried about Google tracking your info...root the phone and don't install the Google apps. What do ya know...problem solved.
If you're still worried that people are tracking what you are doing see steps below.
1) Flush phone or give to a homeless guy to throw them off.
2) Destroy Computers.
3) Liquidate everything you own.
4) Walk into the woods and live off the land.
5) Kill self shortly after because they already have a file on you.
You say you're a 52 year old real estate developer...guess what...they're already tracking you. You're already helping to build "cybernet" just by living and breathing.
And if you are really worried about your "220 year old Constitutional Rights" then go read the Patriot Act and discover that you don't have ****.
I'm normally not one to flame...but you are an absolute idiot.

I'm not an English person, excuse for the syntax/grammar/... mistakes I'd could make.
hedjemunkee said:
I'm normally not one to flame...but you are an absolute idiot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand WHY this person could be considered as "an absolute idiot" by ASKING if some 'data' are sent over the network through the phone.
Facebook, with it's ad system is sending information for each ad displayed (not alot, but still some !)....
ADS.GOOGLE do you have any idea about what's behind !?
I don't have the number (nobody have it) of webpages using it but it's huge. with this you can track navigation of people, establish profiles, link to a physical person. Without your consent.
I understand the concern of the "OP" here. I don't think the data sent are easy to "catch", or are systematically sent... maybe there is no, and you are paranoid. But it "COULD". So easily. I'm from the young tech generation.
And to quote
Quantumstate said:
If most young people share your view, it is a dark future. I'm glad I'll be dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People who don't ask themselve the question, or wich refuse to be open minded enough to consider the right to ask this question ... could be surprised very soon. I'm not directly affraid of "google". I'm affraid of those 'blind' people.
You'll be dead in less than 10years !? I hope we can share some of the darkness you're talking about. your parent's generation started it, you continued it.
Anyway, back to the topic.
Why in my pocess list i've : (app id number) com.ap.SnapPhoto:remote
even when I do not use the camera !?
...when I notice my battery is being used more than usual I check the process list and I find this...
What's this "remote" !?
Maybe "remote" refers to "another app wich launch this app"... ? Otherwise... wow.

In ["TrevE!"] we trust!! OPT out!*CIQ's!* YAHOO, MSN, MSNBC, FORBES Magzn!!! "TrevE!!

In ["TrevE!"] we trust!! OPT out!*CIQ's!* YAHOO, MSN, MSNBC, FORBES Magzn!!! "TrevE!!
Just seen this on **YAHOO** front page, Thank's TrevE!
Forbes Magazine on "TrevE"
MSN MSNBC!
"Eckhart says Carrier IQ's software, designed to monitor the performance of a cell phone on a network, is a "rootkit," spying on unsuspecting users. Carrier IQ says it is not."
"While we look at many aspects of a device’s performance, we are counting and summarizing performance, not recording keystrokes or providing tracking tools," the company said in a recent statement. We've contacted Carrier IQ for more information.
I even made a video to let my subscribers know what he had done for the Android and XDA community, great find thanks to him.

heplful video helped me remove that crap from my htc. Treve rules

BaT420 said:
heplful video helped me remove that crap from my htc. Treve rules
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They(CIQ) wanted a media storm, surfed the web and there it was.

Hmm, seems they didn't get it, a rootkit is something that hides from the user by running in a low level beyound the operating system, this does not imply any malicious intentions yet, so it definitely is. Thing is, they already stated that it does in fact log all phone connections and SMS (not the actual content they say), what apps are running on the phone and how much they utilize the cpu and even more, which i consider malitious personally, and send the informations to your carrier who should have those informations anyway except the app stuff. They say they collect this information to see if a disconnect happens due to a faulty cell tower to improve their network, but they should be able to get all this information's from their cell towers as well. Also they claim that they collect that app info to know what is causing battery drain on your device, but i think this should be handled in a different, more privacy respecting way.
--------------------------
tapatalked from vizio vtab1008

Jeeze I'm glad I run a custom rom and a custom kernel the day I got my phone. Gives my the shivers knowing that my carrier has that info. This would totally suck for federal agencies that use these CIQ infected devices.

Why is anyone the slightest little bit surprised?
This is an OS created by Google, a company that exists to collect data on you. By definition the more it invades your privacy, the better it is accomplishing its job description.
Chrome is growing in installations every day. This is a browser that exists to collect your data. Everything you type or click on while in that browser gets processed through Google's servers.
What do you think is going to happen when google comes out with a "free", stable, OS for pc's? How much of your activity do you think they'll be monitoring?
Google and Facebook are waging a war right now to see who becomes "big brother" through controlling your access to the internet. Wake up and smell the "long game" running.
Yes, I know CIQ is not a Google product.

Someone just turned derp up to 11

mid_life_crisis said:
Why is anyone the slightest little bit surprised?
This is an OS created by Google, a company that exists to collect data on you. By definition the more it invades your privacy, the better it is accomplishing its job description.
Chrome is growing in installations every day. This is a browser that exists to collect your data. Everything you type or click on while in that browser gets processed through Google's servers.
What do you think is going to happen when google comes out with a "free", stable, OS for pc's? How much of your activity do you think they'll be monitoring?
Google and Facebook are waging a war right now to see who becomes "big brother" through controlling your access to the internet. Wake up and smell the "long game" running.
Yes, I know CIQ is not a Google product.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its the carriers that put this software on not Google. My nexus s has no sign of it. I'm custom rom since day one but have a nandroid of my stock image and nothing there.
Also your last statement is a bit tin foil hat isn't it?
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium

slimdizzy said:
Its the carriers that put this software on not Google. My nexus s has no sign of it. I'm custom rom since day one but have a nandroid of my stock image and nothing there.
Also your last statement is a bit tin foil hat isn't it?
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not on the stock or custom roms for the Inspire either.
As for the foil hat. You think the new chip being installed on all US phones after tyebnew year so the government can force texts to your phone is only so they can send you a text? Yeah....I am not so sure about that lol

[conspiracy theory] the government can tap phones even when on stand by....

Few days ago I was involved in a conversation where couple of people were sure that the government can tap our phones even when not in conversation but when they are actually in stand by on the table.
I tried to argue that when in stand by, android for example has very minimal processes going on, just enough to keep the time and realize when the power button is pressed or send notification.
The counter-argument was that there might be backdoors in the ROM for example which enables the authorities to get sound from the mic directly without the need of the OS as an interface.
I don't see how this can be done, but you as developers might want to provide some solid, technical arguments which would set the discussion once at for all

I guess if you're really that worried about it, there's always airplane mode.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium

Worried about monitoring using a google/facebook/twitter device?
Pull some foil off your hat, and wrap it around the phone. Problem solved.
Just do what Eric says "Do no Evil" and who cares if the gummint is watching you!

I'm not worried at all as should be obvious if you actually read my post :>

Fking1 said:
I don't see how this can be done, but you as developers might want to provide some solid, technical arguments which would set the discussion once at for all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm no developer but if you are going to lurk deeper on backdoors, you'll soon find out that bigger corporations than Gooogle have implemented backdoors in their systems.
Still, this doesn't tell you how it's done, but proofs that has been done and afaics is no problem to do it again.
If I remember correctly some time ago Indian government tried to force BlackBerry to backdoor their devices for Indian market.
So judge it for yourself, but don't think that this is some Atlantis conspiracy but is actually happening all over the place..

B33zal said:
Well, I'm no developer but if you are going to lurk deeper on backdoors, you'll soon find out that bigger corporations than Gooogle have implemented backdoors in their systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Care to elaborate?
Also it will be enough if someone says why it's impossible to pull audio from the mic when the phone is on standby

In all actuality if the gumment wanted to monitor you they already are....

Fking1 said:
Care to elaborate?
Also it will be enough if someone says why it's impossible to pull audio from the mic when the phone is on standby
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not impossible. Don't brick your head with such things. And why is that question anyway? Do you affraid that you can get caught?
If you are not doin anything against the law, after a while they would not even listen to you

chaki- said:
It's not impossible. Don't brick your head with such things. And why is that question anyway? Do you affraid that you can get caught?
If you are not doin anything against the law, after a while they would not even listen to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well to be honest, i'm big time criminal in my country, so the answer to that question is critical to me :>

Fking1 said:
I tried to argue that when in stand by, android for example has very minimal processes going on, just enough to keep the time and realize when the power button is pressed or send notification.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because a listening device is not always on doesn't mean it doesn't exist. A single push notification can activate a hidden app or feature, should a government have installed it.
Indeed, there are "lost phone" apps on the market that let you do similar things (though I'm not sure about listening in per se, more like gps, alarm sound, take photos).

so, it's technically possible?

Fking1 said:
so, it's technically possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is possible and google patented an ad technique that involved using the microphone to listen for background noises and words to produce better more personalised ad results but haven't implemented it yet.
Also you can remotely activate phone features as well as push data to a phone so yes it could be done but they would need at least an app installed on your phone to do so.
So unless you allow someone to install hidden apps on your phone there's no chance of it.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2

Interesting.
What if the government forces Google, Apple and Rim to leave such backdoors accessible by them?
Android is open source but the kernel is not as far as i know?

Fking1 said:
Interesting.
What if the government forces Google, Apple and Rim to leave such backdoors accessible by them?
Android is open source but the kernel is not as far as i know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
even if thats the case: just flash an own kernel like we all do.
i don't think there's something in android, because it's open source. someone would see that..
and the kernel problem is solved when you flash another one i guess
but those normal ppl out there.. the weird ones who doesn't flash their devices, they are ****ed then. xP

but are the kernels we flash open source? I guess even with custom ROM you use the default google kernel, since if it haven't been open source in the first place, i don't think anyone has written it from scratch.
The more important question is, can something like this be hidden in the kernel, or it needs to run in the OS as normal, but hidden app?

Fking1 said:
Care to elaborate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NSAKEY. I'd post links but I can't.

B33zal said:
NSAKEY. I'd post links but I can't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NSAKEY?
post them sripped or PM me

Is it possible? Yes is it likely? No. At least in the US they would need to prove you were a threat to national security to get a judge to sign off on it.
The android kernel is open source completely.
As an example there is a root binary that grants root access without user prompt or notification of any kind. So while it can be done I would not worry about it much.
FEMA chip anyone?
Sent for a corner cell in Arkham

dmhdogpro said:
In all actuality if the gumment wanted to monitor you they already are....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bingo
I do not worry about my Government, if they want me they
will come and get me (and I won't be able to stop them)
It is my fellow citizens whom scare me the most.

B33zal said:
Well, I'm no developer but if you are going to lurk deeper on backdoors, you'll soon find out that bigger corporations than Gooogle have implemented backdoors in their systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is true and some EULAs even suggest that there is no privacy on the data commited to the systems. Simple software we use daily (specially in the MS Windows world) is gathering info about what data you search, what you download, what kinda documents you type, etc. Even cloud storage services have a EULA that guarantee you no privacy (Box, Dropbox, Google drive, etc)
As for Android, I highly doubt the problem lies in the operating system, since it is open source and anyone can take a look at it.
Now if you want a conspiracy theory, then read on...
Have you guys noticed how many of the browsers in Play Store are from chinese developers? Specially Dolphin, which many of you adore. Who can tell it isn't secretly sending your browsing habits to the Chinese government? How many people have been sniffing traffic to/from Dolphin (using tcpdump, for instance) to make sure it isn't doing other things?
Chrome (and Chromium) is another example: most people simply have to access their google accounts from these browsers. These browsers effectively send private user data to google. The question here is: how is google making use of such data and who is it sharing it with (for a profit or not)???
It's almost a paradox that in the information age we are more and more willing to have privacy but we have never shared so much of their personal lives with so many as we do now. Take, for instance, Facebook, Google+, Twitter,
I could go on and on... but I gotta some wifi sniffing to do right now and some wardriving later.

[KNOX] Searching for users with root, active SELinux and a not tripped Knox

Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will. Other got it as well.
That means they already have some form of control and disregard your configuration. What can they do more?
With an SELinux they can control your device as they wish if they configure it to hide processes that run, as of today, unknown code.
I'm an "BOFH Unix kick ass consultant" by trade. I know how nicely you can do this. "Living in a box". Oh yes.
This is about our future, the right for privacy and the right to do what we want with out own private property!
The extreme measures taken against just obtaining root are disproportionately harsh. If they succeed, others will follow.
We might end up with iNdroid in a few years. I want to prevent that. But we need more knowledge. They destroy evidence if you trip Knox.
Rooting is not illegal, but the active action of destroying someones property with indent is, whatever cause, warranty claims or not.
There will be consequences. But we need more information, and you who have a Note 3, just as me, can help. The key can be your phone.
Knox is not "just a flag". It have attached code. It sabotages your system both software and hardware. Scrambled software. Wifi permanently
damaged, to name a few. I know, from my S4, and have it verified from source. But that code is run once and then gone. Are there more E-fuses?
Dumping hardware has made at least one device totally bricked. Not even the Power button worked. It was stone-dead.
Also:
If someone has a way of obtaining it without tripping Knox please contact me. I'm willing to take the risk of tripping Knox since this is more important then
some warranty.
I've been working in this for two months now and the more I learn the more I start to question if this isn't a bad movie with Kevin Costner...
No opt-out. Enforcement of this "Enterprise" solution. On your private phone? Think! The money this must cost? You want a return of investment!
Rooted phones cost that much? I don't buy that. You have an unique certificate that binds YOU to your phone. You and your phone are bound as one.
What if 3rd-party malicious code get hands of that? Viruses exist, even on Play. But your Antivirus can't run because it can't access the parts it must have
higher right to read check your programs. I rather run a firewall and deny permissions of programs that want way too much.
A "file manager" doesn't need to read your contacts. A game doesn't need to use your camera. But you can't prevent that.
Knox prevents that. Because you can place a document in a container... I rather use my freeware AES-program that encrypt documents on the fly.
Until we know more the device should be considered as not safe. Why is Samsung stonewalling the question so many have asked?
"What is the extent of the damage made?". I think we have the right to now that, don't you? Many has tried. "Heavy damage" is so far the best we got.
So please, if you still have root and not a crippled device, please contact me. Your help is the only way I see is possible right now.
All the best,
Abs (Yes, I need to update my tag, since I have so much new)

Hi. I've root, not tripped knox and with selinux set to enforcing.
Enviado desde mi SM-N9005 mediante Tapatalk

Absolon said:
Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
...
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.

xclub_101 said:
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It got pushed about the moment I turned on my phone the first time. So as I said. I missed the opportunity
But thank those who instead of making sarcastic comments, already sent a message and offered help instead. :good:
I'm sure that the large group who got their phones destroyed really value you and your opinion, Xblub
But be careful so you don't trip it. You would not believe how easy that is!
Would be sad if you also got your phone devastated by the unkindly spirits at Samsung.
Let's hope we find a solution before that happens, right?
And please, if more want to help out please mess me, there are so many who got their phones destroyed and Samsung will not stop itself.
It will only be worse. But you can help stop this while we still have a change.
Next phones will have Knox chipped and then even Xblub will be sad
/Abs
Edit: Of course I meant Xclub.
As noted, easy to make a mistake. Like wanting Xclub to write "ls" when I really meant he should run
#!/bin/bash
//usr/bin/tail -n +2 $0 | g++ -o main -x c++ - && ./main && rm main && exit
main(_){_^448&&main(-~_);putchar(--_%64?32|-~7[__TIME__-_/8%8][">'txiZ^(~z?"-48]>>";;;====~$::199"[_*2&8|_/64]/(_&2?1:8)%8&1:10);} (Please don't run it!)

Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.

radicalisto said:
Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie

Absolon said:
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you can tell the difference once Knox is tripped. The only obvious thing that sticks out is you have more RAM/HDD available and the phone feels slightly faster. As for Play and Apps not working, I am yet to see any issues (only play issues I have ever had have been No connection, when there clearly is one. After a few refreshes it loads up. Now bear in mind, My connection isn't weak, I've been on the internet via the browser or on an app when I have switched to Play and experienced this) - Not to mention a stupid notification yapping at us telling us we are wrong to use something on a phone we legally own.
Absolon said:
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aww I dread to even think what Samsung will enforce on us next time. There should be an option when you purchase the phone, if you're gonna use it for corporate use, then have KNOX installed via a code they print out. - But to us the everyday user. All it's doing is
*Taking up space on OUR phones
*Running cheekily in the BG
*As you stated, banning access to certain parts of the phone, which IF exploited, our AV's etc cannot reach.
To say we (well most of us) live in a free world, when it comes to us being consumers... they like to shaft us several times over.

Absolon said:
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.

lispnik said:
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all have the same configurations and not all have the same level of knowledge. But that is not a problem.
As I said. I don't want into your phone, I want you to collect info. So I gladly take any help I can get. Send me a private message.
Because I need as many as possible to verify things. Don't be shy! I don't bite. That hard

Destruction of data INSIDE the knox container after gaining root (which is a vulnerability in itself) is not data manipulation of any sort.
Tripping the counter will just void your warranty (as you would expect anyway!) and disable the knox container completely - it will NOT cause any other issue whatsoever to your device.
The System Security Policy service resets with a factory reset (so you can now go to the security tab and disable auto update).
Security Policy blocks known vulnerabilities that can give access to unauthorised root permissions and potential malware attacks.
Knox as a container can be opted out by uninstalling the knox application.
Knox as a counter is an integrated security measure and in no way should you ever be able to turn it off.
Security Policy is an active security system and you should not have the option to turn it off - you can prevent updates to the policy however.
Tripping the counter will not cause any hardware/software damage (!! An E-FUSE triggering is not damage, it's doing the job it is designed to do in case of compromising the system !!) - it will prevent you from using the knox container which is no longer safe after root and prevent you from getting warranty because you void it by rooting since the middle ages anyway - WiFi issues, dead devices and whatnot are not related in any way as most N3 users here are already using the device with knox tripped.
If you want root privileges you automatically lose your warranty and access to knox, nothing more nothing less.
PS: Update 16 blocked kingoapproot and vroot (which are technically malware), not root de la vega, the new bootloader blocked root de la vega because it's an exploit to gain root.

Absolon said:
...
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While the first line falls close to what a conspiracy theorist would say the second one is an interesting point where more attention would be useful.
It can be argued that in the context of EU law the HARDWARE warranty is different than the SOFTWARE warranty, and that a manufacturer can not evade providing the first.
The thing is - to the best of my knowledge Samsung has never (so far) denied HARDWARE warranty based on knox flag status - so in that regard you might have a starting point in case you want to set some precedent - and I would LOVE such a precedent to be set (in a way that protects the consumer)!
Other than that all the stuff on how knox is used by Samsung to spy on you and follow your every move is really not helping anybody's cause (except maybe Samsung's).
My final point on this matter is that people with a LOT more technical knowledge on the subject than Absolon here (people like Chainfire or AndreiLux and plenty other) have commented on this, so people should really learn more about the subject before starting the wrong crusade born out of conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong - I WANT my consumer freedom, but I would also like that when legal precedents are set on the subject to have them set the right way, for the right reasons and with the right evidence (which will not be destroyed in court by Samsung lawyers in a day or less).

I'm following a good advice and removing any further comments.
I really want to work in a constructive manner and I do not with to petty fight. So please.
If anyone else want to help explore, please message me. We are on different levels of knowledge but that is all what XDA is about. To learn and to help!
All the best,
Abs

If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty

EdisDee said:
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, there are different views. Skander has one experience and that can be for one version.
For the I9505 the Knox did cause damage to the hardware and I did collect reports of findings and the majority was Wifi,
If this is the same for Note 3 I don't know. I write that I know, and what I think. We have free speech and I can have my thoughts and so can others.
It's rudeness and bluntness that should be avoided and I know that irony sometimes doesn't do as well on paper as in real life, but believe me, irony is the only thing that keeps me alive now days ;P

So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?

Edbert said:
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!

Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.

Skander1998 said:
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting as does damage your phone software but not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 05:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------
MxFadzil92 said:
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting does damage your phone software changing of roms baseband kernel etc but still baseband all those stuff are still needed by the original manufacturer release not by cyanogemod for example new baseband are aquired by new tw rom new builds except for kernels which are aquired by githubs made by respective developers... But not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment. Rooting are the only way for us to try a new android platform build release by google... To wait for manufacturer release maaan could be months down the road. Sigh.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

MxFadzil92 said:
.too long.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do not stop you from rooting, they just re-affirm the million year old knowledge that rooting voids your warranty!
Bricking smartphones from rooting is very common, so does flashing kernels and whatnot, flashing kernels can actually allow someone to cause actual hardware damage to antennas, CPU's and GPU's and even kill the screen (in the note 2 for example, flashing an s3 recovery will burn the digitizer permanently)
Rooting also invalidates Knox's security completely, and any data there should be protected so they make it self destruct (the container) when rooted and the flag is there so after unrooting (and potentially having a still infected system) no one can activate a container anymore on the Smartphone.
This has side effects like the inability to root without detection, but the regular users you are talking about will not root their devices and so is 90+% of the users.
Knox is not an issue and nothing new, flashing anything from 2010 on any device voids your warranty, now it voids it with a permanent marker so you can't fool them and technically illegally get a repair from a broken warranty.
You break warranty terms even one of them, you don't get it.

xclub_101 said:
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with a company that does fair play you don't have to worry that they push something you don't want on your phone.
And they do. Don't be too sure that just because you turned your settings off that it protects you, because if you read through posts you will see that people got updates pushed, disregarding whatever setting you had. And that is certainly not fair play
But to answer your question. First. Just dropping names here and there doesn't do it. To ride on someones "fame" to gain more authority and merit to your post is bad rhetoric.
You should be able to do that on your own.
Yes, there are many who are way better then me, but the nice thing is that when you asked them, they know they once been there themselves and don't feel the need to project personal problems and anger on some random person they never met.
Just that we passed the 100 post mark and XDA automatically put a "senoir" next to the name means nothing more then we are good at bull****ting online,
Doesn't tell if you are 1337 or a n00b. Even if you post 10000 post doesn't mean that you have any deeper understanding.
But new users don't know that, and treating others without respect scares them away. Makes them afraid to ask. Who wants a snotty answer back on their first post?
So please. Make this a constructive place. If you are angry I recommend Reddit/Imgur/Flashback. There you can project whatever you want or need.
I don't know how to code a single line in Java!
But I'm awesome in C64 Basic!! And I managed to write "Hello World" in BF!
And I know several Asm's and I coded mostly in C (and C++ when it was still readable) and did my VHDL/Erlang-hell period (and I tested like 20++ other languages, some enforced during my master but some just for fun. I can write "Hello World!" in Sun's start eeprom!) but that was looong time ago. So I'm "rusty". Old. There are so many nifty new things. But then. Mostly I use something invented 200 years ago - A stethoscope. But there is a new COOL one! BT! With noise reduction and spectrum analysis! No more things that hurt in my ears! For the little sum of 1500 € it's yours!..... Bleh.
But I'm not ashamed of that! I can learn if I want. XDA is a great place for that. Even have their own Android University!
I'm fairly good with Unix. Even made money of it. For over 8 years. And the good with that is that some things we still use today haven't changed since 1973!
And I worked some with hardware but I need a new JTAG. Know a good one? So many to choose and I don't know the quality or what is needed?
Do the board even have pins or do you have to weld them? I hate welding!
You say conspiracy. I say concern and worry.
Why are people starting to get worried?
It's not as much as conspiracy then more why they are behaving like they do?
The fact is simple - the unknown
The word SELinux has come to more people now since it's mandatory in 4.3. The "moblie magazines", M3, Android** talks about the "news in 4.3".
But what is SELInux?
So people turn to the trusty Wikipedia for answers: Wikipedia - SELinux
And the first lines they see are
Security-Enhanced Linux (SELinux) is a Linux kernel security module that provides the mechanism for supporting access control security
policies, including United States Department of Defense-style mandatory access controls (MAC).
SELinux is a set of kernel modifications and user-space tools that can be added to various Linux distributions. Its architecture strives to
separate enforcement of security decisions from the security policy itself and streamlines the volume of software charged with security
policy enforcement.[1][2]
The key concepts underlying SELinux can be traced to several earlier projects by the United States National Security Agency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what people see!!
I can bet some even read "police" and not "policies". The see all this and that SCARES THEM.
With the recent scandals in mind of NSA hacking everything including the Germans Chancellors phone, an alley??
And here, the American spy-outpost towards Sovjet/Russia since 1947. We have also a 3-letter agency. And not many weeks ago there where front pages that they shared the databases with each other. So is that so hard to understand?
So to get from the unknowns they start to look
So you turn to Samsung for answers, And they treat you like cattle. And they stonewall you? No transparency whatsoever.
They reminds me of Nokia when they also went into "grandiose mode" and also through they could do whatever they please because of their total dominance. But they forgot one thing. The consumers got more and more unhappy. And they was their sole income. And when get got that in their heads it was too late. What are they now? Decimated to nothing. Trying desperately with a yet another attempt by Microsoft that is deemed to fail. How many times have Microsoft tried to get in on the hand-held market? I lost count.
And then they start to Google. XDA turns up like the first thing. Find their phone and see "Knox?"
(SELinux==NSA) --> Enterprise solution? On my private phone? Encryption? Damage? Container? What do I need THAT for?
"I don't want THAT on my phone! NSA. Enterprise. Container? Where is the opt out? There are none? I was NOT informed of this!"
That is what I find that worrying and I share that with many others.
Yes, some say it's just a flag. Not on S4. Look how many got problem with Wifi. I got them as well. And I knew when I broke my Knox.
Since SS goes all this trouble to hinder you to gain root access that they even had an E-fuse that does cause hardware damage.
To prevent "Triangle Away"? As your friend if he believes it's because of that?
I don't have to use SELinux to run code past your nose, root or not, but SELinux does it so much easier, since you can define it do hide processes from normal users and it has the possibility to run 3rd-party code. You know that, right?
Since we don't know what is run on the phone you can't be sure it's not something with some intent? So why not investigate it? What is going on in the phone?
Aren't you curious? I am. I would love to be able to root? Can I after #16 on MJ7?
But sure ask them, please. Give it a try
Ask them for example why Wifi stopped working after Knox was tripped on your S4?
Ask them what the extent of the damage they have done?
Ask them where this "Efuse data" is, on what address-range so you can avoid it? Data for a flag? Wasn't that just burned in?
Ask them why you can't update with Kies anymore? Wasn't that just a flag?
Ask them anything.
And I'm sure you will get a message back (if you get any) from "Steve". The poor overworked guy that serves the whole world and he always seems to write the same? We compared. He sits and write the same text over and over? "Sorry, we can't divulge this information at the moment".
Poor Steve!
Come back to the mother-continent! I promise, we've stopped flogging, guillotine, quartering and we changed the stake for a steak!
We have much more fun! 6 weeks of full paid vacation. Here in Sweden we have Polar bears! While we sit in our igloos and make watches.
And we have better beer as well!
If you see turning of a setting as a merit I think you should add that to your CV (and I was not alone in this).
I did as 99% of all do. Unpack the phone. Skip the instruction. Put in the sim and the sd-card and then turn it on.
BAM! I don't even think I had the time to enter my Gmail?
But you didn't. Great!
Here your knowledge would be useful! Help your fellow XDA members. In the spirit of XDA!
Can you dump the phone? Not block-wise but by reading the whole contact of the eeproms?
Can you compare your fstab and it sizes? Do they correspond to the space you have? If you dump them and compare it to the first, Do the differ much is size (a bit is natural)?
Can you use parted and list the partitions? Are all mounted? What rights do they have? Can you read them all?
The security policies in /system. What do they contain? See anything strange?
Can you compare what processes you see as a user and root?
Can you list the rules loaded in the kernel? MAC? (I think you need to compile the commands for it or get it from some Arm dist, they are not included)
Strace some processes that you don't recognize?
The kcryptd? What do they work against?
What files are open and locked? What does the stat say?
See kvm? Or are you in a kvm?
Here you can actually ACT and DO something constructive and concrete or is this just, as from my compressor, high pressured air comming from your side?
Time will tell I guess.
For the others that have messaged me: A BIG BIG THANK YOU!
And no, I don't have enough volunteers, if you do have this configuration, mess me. Or test sometime from test list. The dumping should be used by experienced users but you can do a lot on that list and you can zip and sent me some files. Rules, Pipe out the process lists.
I don't care how much you can or can't. Ask away! We started at the beginning somewhere and I will do my best, ask around, and TOGETHER, we might get some result, because we want to DO something and maybe we CAN help right? Either we find something or we don't. If we are sure and can say "The system seems clean". That would calm a LOT people down. Including me.
/Abs
And with this I won't go into more arguments about this. It's enough. I saw this as an excellent solution to see and check. Not to argue.
I already lost too much time on bla bla bla. I want to spend the time I have on things that matter. My friends that have their phones destroyed.
Use the list or make another! All seem to have their own experiences/views. Samsung must love this division.
Just DO something! Like in all research: Stipulate, challenge, prove, disprove, confirm, dismiss. Start over.
If you need to vent, you can PM me as well, Xblub.

Blackphone opinions???

I ran into this article today and I wanted to see what the people on XDA think about it. This company is working on a Android phone that it's primary purpose is to protect the users privacy.
Here's the link: http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/1/1...nn-silent-circle-geeksphone-blackphone-launch
Read the article, watch the video and let me know what you think.
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.

Saw news about this and came here to seek out does any1 have opinions about it.
i wonder, does the safety come from hardware or is it the OS what makes this so safe.. if it is the OS, i hope some1 smart enough makes custom rom for this.

I really don't see how this phone is gonna change anything. Apps and websites have keyloggers, You still need a carrier to get service from and they have control of all your traffic. What about radio frequencies that can be intercepted, IP addresses, GPS chips sending signals to satellites, baseband and firmware are connected thru the cell towers of the carrier. I'm starting to think this phone is a scam.
They said nothing about how they're dealing with all this. They are probably using the whole NSA scandal momentum to fool people into believing they are safe if they buy this phone.
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.

I saw an article about this venture also. This is a good thing. If he gets press about this phone, maybe other venders will take notice and start building in privacy features as well. :good:

I don't see the need for new hardware here. If they really want to secure something, they could create a mod for Android, that could be installed on a variety of devices for example.
Besides, if they encrypt telephony, messages and stuff, they will need to be decrypted again - but the question is where and how? I bet they won't have any hardware encryption module and even if they do, it will make communication with other phones impossible. Software encryption means other phones will need to install some additional software to communicate with the Blackphone and it might be a bit inconvenient.

orangek3nny said:
I don't see the need for new hardware here. If they really want to secure something, they could create a mod for Android, that could be installed on a variety of devices for example.
Besides, if they encrypt telephony, messages and stuff, they will need to be decrypted again - but the question is where and how? I bet they won't have any hardware encryption module and even if they do, it will make communication with other phones impossible. Software encryption means other phones will need to install some additional software to communicate with the Blackphone and it might be a bit inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good point. how a non blackphone device is gonna decipher the encryption? how is it going to get the key? How can a non blackphone device even a establish the same "secure" connection?
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.

Andronote3 said:
That's a good point. how a non blackphone device is gonna decipher the encryption? how is it going to get the key? How can a non blackphone device even a establish the same "secure" connection?
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are missing the point. As you or I may not NEED this kind of security, I'm sure you can think of someone who does.
Obviously, there would be two levels of privacy/security... Connections between 2 black phones and everything else. So who utilize a black phone? How about corporations and governments? Law offices, professional sports teams, or doctors and hospitals.
Now, even though I do not NEED this, if it was affordable, I would heavily consider it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

JamieFL said:
I think you are missing the point. As you or I may not NEED this kind of security, I'm sure you can think of someone who does.
Obviously, there would be two levels of privacy/security... Connections between 2 black phones and everything else. So who utilize a black phone? How about corporations and governments? Law offices, professional sports teams, or doctors and hospitals.
Now, even though I do not NEED this, if it was affordable, I would heavily consider it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you are saying and I completely agree with you. It looks like a device that corporations and the government would "benefit" more than regular users. Either way, It won't fix 90% of all the problems people face when it comes to staying safe against privacy/security breaches. I truly believe that they are using the whole NSA scandal momentum to make people believe that they are safe/secured if they buy this phone.
P.S: Nice quotes.

I saw this phone.
It isn't an answer to every privacy issue.
What its an answer to is, not having to agree to an android apps permissions to gain access to the app.
These apps don't make their money off the app sales, they make their money sending information to retailers.
Retailers own the world.
The question I still pose is... What's wrong with retailers knowing where you are?
There's nothing you can do about the government. They won't let us make things that are government proof, nor would they (The retailers ) want to.
But, what's wrong with these apps fine tuning my specific desires to my Location?
You can't stop people from stealing your identity. The hacker/firewall paradox is, for every walk you build, they will build a taller ladder.
The only thing really close to full privacy in data sending is, that light source that sends data. It's a light bulb, and the light has data in it, a sensor receives it. It can be held within the walls of a room. But that only effects a closed circuit type system. If that light source is connected to the Internet, then game over.
Why do you think record companies and movie companies keep their computer systems offline and deal in only physical media? A hacker will get into anything I'd you give him the tools and time.
This phone gives a sense of security that is non existant
You've Just Been Tapatold ♧♢dbombROMv3.4♤♡
My Theme ( Taking Requests )
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2658527

SaintCity86 said:
I saw this phone.
It isn't an answer to every privacy issue.
What its an answer to is, not having to agree to an android apps permissions to gain access to the app.
These apps don't make their money off the app sales, they make their money sending information to retailers.
Retailers own the world.
The question I still pose is... What's wrong with retailers knowing where you are?
There's nothing you can do about the government. They won't let us make things that are government proof, nor would they (The retailers ) want to.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2658527
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nailed it

The problem is Android itself. Thanks to Xprivacy, it's a lot easier to control what leaks out of your device. Personally I'd rather see more encryption mechanisms than this. FFOS seems to be on the right path

There Is nothing you can do to stop identity theft.
Nothing.
And there is nothing you can do to do the government from tapping your lines.
You want a safer form of communicating, send Voice recordings over text.
That's an entirety separate warrant, and harder to get. Other than that. It's hopeless
You've Just Been Tapatold ♧♢dbombROMv3.4♤♡
My Theme ( Taking Requests )
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2658527

d1rX said:
FFOS seems to be on the right path
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean FOSS[1] = Free and Open Source Software. Anyway, I fully agree, in fact, that is the ONLY way. Closed source encryption programs can't be 100% trusted by definition. There might be security flaws, intentional or not.
Anyway. the NSA has backdoors to every operating system[2], so if you're really a target, they get you. Also, there are more than enough security holes in the layers under the operating system[3].
I think what these phones are supposed to do is bring end-to-end encryption for e.g. industry users so they don't get spied on. The NSA and the US government can get their hands on encryption keys for servers like in Lavabits case[4]. But this is the transport encryption. The data is, if not otherwise secured, available in plain text on the servers of providers. This also means, the officials can decrypt ANY data that comes in, not just the one of actual targets.
Now, end-to-end encryption makes sure even the provider can't see your data in plain text because you encrypt and decrypt it on your device. What Blackphone does is, it uses the apps from Silent Circle, a closed source encryption programm for VoIP and messages. Although the owner of that company is the well trusted cryptographer Phil Zimmerman, one can never be sure.
That's a good point. how a non blackphone device is gonna decipher the encryption? how is it going to get the key? How can a non blackphone device even a establish the same "secure" connection?
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You can install and use Silent Circle on any(ok, a lot of) phone(s). Just make sure you don't have additional malicious software installed. Any yes, it costs $100/year or so. And you get a subscription for SpiderOak, sort of a Dropbox but they encrypt the data before uploading. Any you get a better overview over what app uses what permissions. A few extra tweaks basically.
Alternative: Android Phone with CyanogenMod/Replica. TextSecure for messages, RedPhone for VoiP and owncloud for files. Way cheaper too, and open source, also made by well respected cryptographers like Moxie Marlinspike[5]
[1] de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free/Libre_Open_Source_Software
[2] zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-08/nsa-has-full-back-door-access-iphone-blackberry-and-android-smartphones-documents-re"]backdoors to every operating system
[3] forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2530044
[4] techdirt.com/articles/20131002/17443624734/lavabit-tried-giving-feds-its-ssl-key-11-pages-4-point-type-feds-complained-that-it-was-illegible.shtml
[5] thoughtcrime.org

if they want to spy on us they can ... that's it...

More info?
Hi all - looking for more info on this phone - just joined XDADev to post this.
Specifically, what brands might this hardware be found under? Know it's a Tinno S8515 but have yet to find out anything about that; seems like Tinno generally makes phones for other companies?
Any help is appreciated!
Best,
-Cx
:cyclops::cyclops::cyclops:

The greatest challenge to securing a phone is not the OS or the apps running on it, it's the baseband. We have known for well over 30+ yeasr how to harden a *nix based system (like AOS), but we haven't even started to question WTF is going on in the closed source 10-100 MB baseband RTOS, which have fulll access to your entire FS and the most important phone operations, like SIM, RF, EMMC etc etc.
Only forcing the corrupt modem OEM's to release the sources of the Baseband firmware could improve the situation. This will never happen, unless there is another baseband Snowden out there somewhere...
We already know that the BP/CP FW is extremely insecure, and relies almost solely on obscurity as their main mechanism of protection. If this was not the case, the iPhone unlock developers would have been fekked long time ago, and the rest of us would sit around with SIM/network locked bricks filling up our bookshelves.
Unfortunately the greatest majority of the millions of XDA members are completely carefree about this issue and are only happy as long as they can "tweak some ROMs". So this will never be the place to find/see any serious baseband reversing, no matter how important it would be from a security standpoint.
So to summarize, your Qualcomm baseband will continue to send your exact GPS coordinates to the network provider at will, without you ever knowing, and without anyone (here) caring. So goes for the FM transmitter that is part of the baseband FW in both Intel and Qualcomm based phones. Do you have control over that? Never.
Only a serious long term spectrum analysis study could reveal whats going on there, where and when you're not (able) to watch.

This phone is the biggest scam lol.

hyshys said:
Saw news about this and came here to seek out does any1 have opinions about it.
i wonder, does the safety come from hardware or is it the OS what makes this so safe.. if it is the OS, i hope some1 smart enough makes custom rom for this.
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I was wondering this too. If it is only the rom (just like the $1300 pwnphone). It should be port-able

iliass01 said:
I was wondering this too. If it is only the rom (just like the $1300 pwnphone). It should be port-able
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Blackphone. - no hardware security, just software, and most of it is NOT open source. Some here (@SaintCity86 , @repat) has their points, and they are mostly right! If you want some security (and I said some!!!), then get rid of most of your apps (permission check and some common sense), all Google apps (yes, all of them), install a paid (not free) and high quality VPN software, don't use the phone feature (only data sim-prepaid), get an internet phone number (with no personal details), use end to end encrypted apps to make calls and send and receive texts, install Xposed and Xprivacy (or any other variant) and limit even more the apps you have on your phone. Don't use it as your only phone, but as a secure device and share your number and other infos with trusted people! In this case, maybe, you will be able to add some layer of security and actually be able to use it. And most important, don't give your phone in the hands of anyone! It is a bit paranoid, but it's the only way! But, don't be fooled! You can have some security, only if you stay under the radar, and don't gain some attention. If yes, then you have no luck! Personally, I have seen the Blackphone, and tested it for some time, and I am not really convinced it can be trusted.
Good luck!

Andronote3 said:
I really don't see how this phone is gonna change anything. Apps and websites have keyloggers, You still need a carrier to get service from and they have control of all your traffic. What about radio frequencies that can be intercepted, IP addresses, GPS chips sending signals to satellites, baseband and firmware are connected thru the cell towers of the carrier. I'm starting to think this phone is a scam.
They said nothing about how they're dealing with all this. They are probably using the whole NSA scandal momentum to fool people into believing they are safe if they buy this phone.
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
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Would just like to correct this common misconception, GPS is one way.
GPS receivers as found in your phones, or navigation systems, receives GPS signals only. Nothing gets sent to satellites in this process, the algorithm is purely one way.