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Man, do I hate it!
It's frustrating when you use the same system but you can't have the same cool/nice apps/widgets other phones have. I know you can root and then sideload them. But that's a lot of extra work and it doesn't always work.
Biggest problem for Android!
Fragmentation is almost impossible to escape in the phone industry because of how quickly the hardware is advancing.
Windows Mobile is worse than Android because they hardly ever release new versions and most carriers refuse to release the new versions because once the phones are a couple months old, they are already EOL.
At least with Android the market is going towards over the air updates which is a little less annoying. I tell people to only expect the phone to support the version it is running when it leaves the factory there are no guarentees.
Even Apple can not escape fragmentation and they are doing anything and everything not to have that happen. Some of the older hardware just can't do what the new ones can and not suck at it.
Also a huge problem in Android is minimum requirements. Winmo fell into the same trap, where companies just released terrible, terrible hardware. That is half the reason why everyone thinks Winmo sucks because a lot of the hardware is under powered and ****ty.
Anyway a phone is not a PC; one year later is a very long time in the mobile industry so do not expect any software updates as they may never happen. It's nice when they do but as soon as a new device comes out to replace that one then its mostly over. Also phones get released several months earlier than the U.S. so that time frame is even shorter.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_...g-to-unwrap-ice-cream-sandwich/?tag=cnetRiver
If it's coming on new phones early does that mean we might get it early too?
the sooner they release the source code the quicker we will get it.
I prefer they hold onto it longer and test the heck out of it. Heck ship it late if it means fewer bugs!
Hopefully Google learned it's lesson with Honeycomb/Xoom on what happens when you rush something to market in response to an Apple announcement.
...because rushing the OS worked so well last time around.
Seriously, Google. Take your time, and get it right this time around. If you don't, you're going to get a reputation for sloppy, buggy operating systems that you'll never be able to throw.
I wish they would take their time, we dont need another Microsoft OS.
slipshft said:
I wish they would take their time, we dont need another Microsoft OS.
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Click to collapse
I wish Android was half as bug free as Windows 7.
please delete, duplicate
jerrykur said:
I wish Android was half as bug free as Windows 7.
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Click to collapse
Xbox360 Cough.....
The most bug-ridden ****e in consumer history, still broken after 5 years....
personally, I hope they take their time releasing it. I love honeycomb and how my transformer performs. 3.2 is excellent. Why rush the update?
CrazyPeter said:
Xbox360 Cough.....
The most bug-ridden ****e in consumer history, still broken after 5 years....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curious... what bugs? I can't say I've noticed a single bug on my Xbox 360, nor ever had a crash of any kind. I have, however, found a few bugs in Win7.
knoxploration said:
I'm curious... what bugs? I can't say I've noticed a single bug on my Xbox 360, nor ever had a crash of any kind. I have, however, found a few bugs in Win7.
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Click to collapse
You know, the bug where you have no life, and play games for hours and hours on end, therefore receiving the RROD. Then get pissed because after running a freaking computer (game console, same thing) for 5 hours straight with poor air circulation, it shouldn't fry.
When I had my 360 I had no issues at all. Then again, I have a life ....
dictionary said:
You know, the bug where you have no life, and play games for hours and hours on end, therefore receiving the RROD. Then get pissed because after running a freaking computer (game console, same thing) for 5 hours straight with poor air circulation, it shouldn't fry.
When I had my 360 I had no issues at all. Then again, I have a life ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The RROD is a hardware issue, not a bug. If we want to equate to Android, the RROD would correlate with initial production of Asus' Transformer dock draining power all the time it's powered on, even when the tablet itself is asleep. A hardware issue, not a bug.
That said, I've run for five hours at a time with no issue (so far, touch wood). My ventilation's probably not great -- my Xbox sits in an enclosed desk above a 24-inch flat panel and a Core-i7 950 desktop that are both powered on all the time, and generate a fair amount of heat. There's maybe 1-2 inches free behind the Xbox, 6-8 inches above and to the sides, and it's almost always dusty.
Guess I've (so far) been lucky...
Unfortunately Google will rush it out and try beat iOS 5 release, which is stupid imo. But what can you do, when markets rule this world, not common sense!
knoxploration said:
The RROD is a hardware issue, not a bug. If we want to equate to Android, the RROD would correlate with initial production of Asus' Transformer dock draining power all the time it's powered on, even when the tablet itself is asleep. A hardware issue, not a bug.
That said, I've run for five hours at a time with no issue (so far, touch wood). My ventilation's probably not great -- my Xbox sits in an enclosed desk above a 24-inch flat panel and a Core-i7 950 desktop that are both powered on all the time, and generate a fair amount of heat. There's maybe 1-2 inches free behind the Xbox, 6-8 inches above and to the sides, and it's almost always dusty.
Guess I've (so far) been lucky...
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Click to collapse
That totally went over your head, lol. I know it isn't a bug, I was just poking fun at those who'd call it such, as that is the only problem I've ever seen with the 360, and it's hardly a bug.
Probably wanna put it out first so people won't say it's a copy of iOS 5.. but if it turns out crappy, then people will still hate on it. Boned either way!
IC
It really not up to Google exactly , it up to the OEMs like Asus. Google puts the basic OS and APIs together. That's really the easy part. Then to make it run on a particular device the OEMs have to write a hardware abstraction layer and HW drivers. The sooner Google releases source code the faster these hardware specific parts can be created. Of course the big partners like HTC and samsung have pre-release copies and are already working on it.
Well ICS was supposed to release around the winter holidays but with the new iOS5 supposedly coming in September, I can see them wanting to have something new to offer as well.
While I hate rushed software, new stuff is always fun to play with. Sure for the normal consumer grade peeps it may be icky but if you get ice cream you expect to get a little sticky.
Ice Cream Sandwich is supposed to bring us 2 things; Graphically Accelerated OS apps (like iOS) and a combination of Phone and Tablet apps (auto sensing?). Honeycomb 3.2 already brought us the phone support with the expanded view much like Apple's iPad/iPad2 does with their iPhone apps.
Really most phone apps expand pretty well on the tablet as they cover the screen well without "pixelated zoom" we see on the iPad's. Only a few crappy apps don't display properly but what do you expect, at least they work...
But the functions are supposed to be incorporated at the heart of Android where menu's (such as Settings) will auto adjust accordingly automatically. Some apps already do this. My Weather app on my phone, when setting the DPI to a lower setting it will automatically display the tablet version. The new Market also does this. With my LG G2x set at a 190 DPI, the tablet version of the market is displayed. All of the phone apps are still accessable as it reads your build.prop for phone model information.
I would imagine that once the CORE Android apps auto-sense and they allow GPU acceleration for pretty transitions and effects, it would be a smooth transition. Seems they are already implementing these functions right before our eyes and we don't know it (which means they are working properly).
The good thing with Android is that individual apps can be updated on the fly, where iOS uses a whole OS upgrade.
All I ask for is Smart Dialing!!!
dictionary said:
That totally went over your head, lol. I know it isn't a bug, I was just poking fun at those who'd call it such, as that is the only problem I've ever seen with the 360, and it's hardly a bug.
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Click to collapse
lol so that's what that whooshing sound was. Thought it was just another work deadline going by. ;-)
I've been using iOS 5 on my iphone 4 for a few months now and it is a lot better then 4.x.x but my feeling is that it is (don't flame me) equal to gingerbread let me explain first
ios 4 and android 2.2 were the break out ones they brought a lot of new features to the platforms and changed how they all worked
ios 5 and android 2.3 are more minor upgrades, bringing things up to date and keeping it current but not bringing about massive innovation.
ICS in my view (if done correctly) would change everything. Major updates across the board. It would bring about the dawn of the android tablets and make them the massive selling beasts that the iPad is.
I am neither an iPhone fanboy or an Android fanboy. I get excited when iOS gets new features and when Android gets new features. Innovation or copying.
That's why i have a devices running both.
knoxploration said:
The RROD is a hardware issue, not a bug. If we want to equate to Android, the RROD would correlate with initial production of Asus' Transformer dock draining power all the time it's powered on, even when the tablet itself is asleep. A hardware issue, not a bug.
That said, I've run for five hours at a time with no issue (so far, touch wood). My ventilation's probably not great -- my Xbox sits in an enclosed desk above a 24-inch flat panel and a Core-i7 950 desktop that are both powered on all the time, and generate a fair amount of heat. There's maybe 1-2 inches free behind the Xbox, 6-8 inches above and to the sides, and it's almost always dusty.
Guess I've (so far) been lucky...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point was, Microsoft knew about all the problems with the XBox, including RROD and disk scratching and the like, but decided that it was far more important to launch it anyway, and being first to market is more important, consumers are idiots and easily forget, give them a few months free Xbox Live and their $400 piece of overheating crap is the best thing ever (the free couple of months of Xbox Live is soon won back by all the costly accessories and recurring Xbox Live fees, so it's win-win for Microsoft).
http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/x...tory-of-microsofts-video-game-console-woes/1/
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
I think for me its a little bit of both. I like the fact that the hardware is there in my 3d when I need to push the system really hard. Its not often I do, but its good that when I do, it executes the tasks with ease.
On the same hand there are huge software benefits for me. I love the UI and that I can set swype gestures to open particular apps or settings. It makes multi tasking tthat much easier and fluid for me.
Also, at least from what I have seen with iOS5 (my girl has the 4s) is that android seems to be ahead in certain areas of functionality. For example it is not an innovative thing (to me anyways, being an android user) to be able to back up your device without the use of a computer... I have been doing wireless backups and internal backups since I bought my first android phone.
I think one thing you mentioned before... I think it was you, anyways... was pretty much right on when you said that android is capable of meeting so many different needs in the sense that you have a wide range in variety of devices to choose from and at different costs. There are high end phones available such that perform to today's standards in the mobile world, and there are lower end ones available that are more cost effective.
I feel if you yourself are innovative and creative, you are way more capable of taking an android phone and building the UI to what you want/need. I don't sacrifice functionality for speed, ever. In the end it is still just a phone, but I prefer this platform because it caters to that need I have to customize my phone the way I want it to be, not what somebody else feels it should be.
---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------
And to address your comment about the bajjillion core tab....
Seems the hardware is way ahead of the software in this case... therefore, I am not impressed by it.
I have a Motorola xoom and it has plenty of power to do what I need it to do. I will not be taking it back to simply have two more cores under the hood. And somebody else mentioned the new kal el device only has 1gb of ram? In my opinion that is really disappointing for a device with that kind of processing power.
i buy phones based on hardware specs
the OS is optional
I prefer to load my OS of choice
just like my PCs / Laptops
z33dev33l said:
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First time I have to agree with you pal.BUT:
i)Those guys/gals whose customisation needs end with setting the ringtone are the ones who won't care or even won't realize if the OS is different between an iPhone and an Android device.
ii)Android offers most(if not all) of the things other OSes offer,plus the infinite customisation capabilities no other OS has.Now this is what matters for those of us who can do more than changing the ringtone.
Other than these two things,I generally agree.In the end,though,it's user preference that matters.And people's idiocy in fact.Hell,many people buy their phones depending on how many megapixels their camera can do!
AllGamer said:
I prefer to load my OS of choice
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Click to collapse
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Certainly a combination of software + hardware with a little bit of company preference.
But considering the range of manufacturers for android based phones, I find it hard to lag behind hardware wise.
1) I look for a device that I think will last me the three years of my contract or at least the majority of it
2) I look here on XDA and see what the dev community is like
3) I buy the phone
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
countstex said:
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
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I've seen the price comment being made multiple times but aren't these devices pretty close to each other in terms of price after a 2 yr contract? In fact if you shop around, you can find some of these highend units for nearly nothing from online stores such as amazon
As for me, overall package is what sold me to galaxy s2. Form factor, hardware specs, overall implementation of the OS (gpu acceleration various places), etc. Version number really doesn't really bother me (2.3.3 vs 2.3.4/5/6/7) as long as there aren't any key features missing in the current revision that exists in the newer revisions.
Gusar321 said:
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 was a great example
then there are many other HTC devices that did the same
and a few Samsung devices as well
and there's the HP Touchpad
and...
For most people it's both.
They're attracted for the first time by the look and find the OS easy to use.
Despite people stating that the iphone is for people who just want to use a smartphone for the first time etc and Android is for techies and geeks to customise, if that were actually true then that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of geeks out there, which obviously isn't the case.
I would guess the majority of Android users' extent of customisation is changing the picture of their wallpaper, and that's the thing, with Android you can do that, it's easy to use, with the extra buttons it can seem more logical to new users compared with the single button on the iphone for instance.
It has the "apps and the wifis" that average users want, it looks good and you can make it look pretty much how you like.
Being able to just plug it into another computer and transfer files is a huge boon too, something a colleague was very disappointed with the iphone4 because of it's lack of ability.
There is 500+ android devices on the market globally, its the brand name and hardware specs that sell. Not the os.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I'd rather say that that none of those sell the other: it's actually the price selling both, plus the "status symbol" factor thatbhas to do with Apple things. Androids are generally cheaper then both the iPhone and WP7 phones. This, plus the fact that most people don't seem to like WP7 tiled ui, basically because it doesn't "look like an iPhone" enough. That might sound harsh, like saying that most people are dumb, but it's not (only) that actually: people got used to icons since the day they got their first pc, no wonder they go for something that looks more familiar to them when they wanna buy a smartphone. Maybe Win8 will totally change the name of the game, but that's it for the moment (sadly enough I dare say).
I think we have to remember that 'most' people don't include the tiny fraction of the consumer market that are active on XDA. We make choices on a range of factors as we are better informed about both hardware and software. When we walk into a phone shop we want to assess the phone on build quality, size, Android version, display type, etc.
When the average punter walks into the same shop their buying choice usually boils down to no more than, 'Oh look, a shiny thing. I want that one'.
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Thread moved to Android. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.
Do you review the content of my threads before moving them or do you see my name and play pin the tail on the donkey with the final location of the thread?
I can't believe the ATI(Adreno in spirit) and Nvidia(Tegra 1,2,3) battle is now in the mobile era, although the cpu core race is even more daunting...
It was not that long ago when 1 core dominated the market, but now we have Dualcores & Quadcores...My issue with this change is that I don't feel either are exactly required; for instance, WP7 & iOS are faster than Android, but are able to run on older hardware. And lets not forget the iPhones normally run at surprisingly low speeds, however they can get a lot done still.
I mean Samsung's SIII has a Quadcpu, but I doubt that's even necessary, what's wrong with staying in the dualcore/single range and focusing on improving the UI and general performance!?
I know I'm gonna get a lot of backlash for thinking this way, but developers will be lazy with programming if they know the HW will run whatever crap they throw at it. It's just hard to understand the logic behind increasing the core count/speed without actually fixing the problems that plagued the software(android in this case) , if you just take the time to fix the quirks then the device will run smoother. Though, it just seems companies are just interested in marketing gimmicks that most end users won't actually notice, plus most dual cores(S3, exynos,T2, etc) are competent with intensive apps.
The race for now is to produce phones with the most potential. Quad cores, when correctly optimized anyway, have much higher processing capacity and much lower power consumption when doing trivial tasks. The goal is to create interfaces that don't stutter or lag no matter how much you have going on and do so efficiently. There's also the backing of chipsets like the Tegra for high-end mobile entertainment. The end game is superphones, and the game is well afoot.
As to the necessity of it, just depends. I think most business users will be fine on dual core offerings with plenty of ram and a well-implemented overall system. For those who like to max their phones out the possibilities of the high-end development coming out is pretty great. Think about something like the Note with enough processing ability to act as a full input tablet for graphic designers, or that allows programmers to run and edit complex code on the go instead of having to drag a full-size tablet around with them. Think about doctors or researchers being able to monitor multiple sets of real-time data directly from their phones. There's certainly a market for all this, and I don't think it's an arms race just for the sake of showing off.
My $.02; hope that was all coherent.
MissionImprobable said:
The race for now is to produce phones with the most potential.
There's certainly a market for all this, and I don't think it's an arms race just for the sake of showing off.
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Click to collapse
Your points are all valid, but I still fear that the Software remains on a level much lower than the hardware; there are tons of Android configurations out there that prevent High Quality HW from performing optimally, due to this, the "potential" of certain devices may never be recognized.
I understand that more cores promotes a sense of efficiency and less power draws, but this tends to lead programmers to optimizing less often. Sense 3.0 was extremely sluggish, same with 4.0, but do you notice the trend? Both Sense 3/4 were made for fast SoCs, to my surprise the result was still horrid. And for your point about the mini tablet(Note), I personally feel you would see those types of Apps on iOS devices instead. For the sake of it, I don't want you to think I am an Apple fan boy(just playing devil's advocate).
Maybe those were the kind of things you only saw on Apple previously, but clearly Samsung and others are serious about competing with them.
I am on a bent for the new Google phones that are going to be being produced. Now, I am not the largest fan of quad core yet but I see great potential in dual cores. Like for running Ubuntu Android, an Ubuntu desktop from your phone to a monitor!
These new phones are looking to have 28nm cortex A15 dual core chips, that would be one hot cookie!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
First, for the dispassionate stuff:
Ace42 said:
but developers will be lazy with programming if they know the HW will run whatever crap they throw at it.
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Click to collapse
Developers should be able to be "lazy" with programming: you don't see anyone going back into assembly in order to optimize their programs. Programmer cycles are a lot more valuable than machine cycles, and here more power is a good, not a bad thing.
Ace42 said:
I mean Samsung's SIII has a Quadcpu, but I doubt that's even necessary, what's wrong with staying in the dualcore/single range and focusing on improving the UI and general performance!? ...It's just hard to understand the logic behind increasing the core count/speed without actually fixing the problems that plagued the software(android in this case)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "logic" required is elementary economics. A competitive market causes innovation: each firm has to distinguish itself, and match the features of the others in order to stand a chance. Now, some features are more important in consumers' eyes than others, and in particular, core count/speed are very comprehensible, very easy numbers, and viable to innovate. They have to go up asap in order to compete. And so they have.
This does not mean, of course, that your "problems" must remain. In fact, looking at the S3 demos so far, I haven't yet noticed any lag at all, so perhaps they really did "fix" your problems, as you desired.
Now, for the bashing part.
Ace42 said:
My issue with this change is that I don't feel either are exactly required; for instance, WP7 & iOS are faster than Android, but are able to run on older hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This comes at a cost of so much less customizability. I find WP7 to be particularly guilty of this: only supports 480x800 resolution, no start screen background or landscape? My Launcher 7 is already more powerful than that and, thanks to not attempting any serious 3D stuff, shows no lag at all.
Ace42 said:
And lets not forget the iPhones normally run at surprisingly low speeds, however they can get a lot done still.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone, however, makes us pay with user speed as well. Scrolling is slow, in order to maintain the illusion of smoothness, and the simplistic launcher without widgets forces you to switch around and manage everything yourself, getting data only by clicking on the appropriate app. As I hinted at the beginning, people cycles are so much more valuable than computer cycles, and sacrificing the former for the latter is nothing less than a travesty.
Currently mobile phones are more powerful than my laptops and i think this will not change. In the next few years we will have quad-core processors in watches
goompas said:
Currently mobile phones are more powerful than my laptops and i think this will not change. In the next few years we will have quad-core processors in watches
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
completely agree
Google sells ads, not software, they don't really give a crap about optimizing it to the max. They leave this dirty job to OEMs, and OEMs want to sell hardware, so they only optimize it for the tiny bit that is strictly necessary in order to sell. They'd rather make better hardware than better software, and no need to blame them: they just do what they know better. Microsoft and Apple instead sell either software or a complete package of both software and hardware, so guess why they care more about it...just my 2 cents. Btw, not that one approach is better than the other, choice is good, you pick what you want.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
vnvman said:
Google sells ads, not software, they don't really give a crap about optimizing it to the max. They leave this dirty job to OEMs... Microsoft and Apple instead sell either software or a complete package of both software and hardware, so guess why they care more about it...just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This analysis doesn't make sense (at least, not as gross as it is right now). A company optimizes software when there's some form of competitive pressure, not because they "sell software". Just look at internet explorer: that didn't get seriously worked on for years, until alternative browsers started to become rightfully popular (that is, while microsoft is surely a software company, they still managed not to "give a crap").
Maybe you mean to say that companies only bother to improve something so that it's "good enough" to face off against the competition - and that's pretty much true. For example, after grabbing the market share, apple has only been innovating just hard enough not to be too far behind its competition.
Maybe you also mean to say that companies innovate better, the closer their incentives are aligned with the innovation. This is also true, but highly misleading. For one thing, the factor most affecting one's incentives is not "the thing they are selling", but (you guessed it from above) competition. Selling software or hardware when you have a monopoly, for instance, gives you little or no incentive to innovate (whereas your criteria would've suggested the opposite).
Mind you, I think you are hitting on something; it just requires a much more thorough analysis of the incentives than just "are they selling software or ads?"
And the incentive situation is itself weird. On one hand, android ad profit is (supposedly) pretty low for google, but on the other hand, they are able to delegate the whole manufacturing and execution to other firms. Fewer rewards, but also lower costs. They do have the majority of the phone market right now (getting dangerously close to monopoly there), but this is a fragile equilibrium, with tablets a whole 'nother story. And, since they are dying to get more stock phones out (with those giant "Google" permanant search bars), one can indeed argue that they've started to care not only about selling ads, but the whole damn thing. It's gotten to the point where they need to improve stock itself (and probably the phones too, hence the motorola acquisition + multiple Nexii partnership) in order to improve their ads. And so you see that the incentives may not be nearly as maligned as you'd originally supposed.
I think that we can only benefit from this race
thebobp said:
First, for the dispassionate stuff:
Developers should be able to be "lazy" with programming: you don't see anyone going back into assembly in order to optimize their programs. Programmer cycles are a lot more valuable than machine cycles, and here more power is a good, not a bad thing.
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Being "lazy" is the reason why so many Android apps run poorly across the board; fine, I understand more power allows you to offload more work to the cpu, but that doesn't mean that's the correct method. If I were to make an app for a Dual environment I would specifically make sure each core is sharing the burden. When Dual core phones & Ginger were(and still are) united, the result was simply stunning—Ginger was definitely not optimized for dualcores. And it showed, my Sensation was so laggy under 2.3.x, it was so disheartening to see my single core devices could challenge the dual beast with ease.
thebobp said:
Now, some features are more important in consumers' eyes than others, and in particular, core count/speed are very comprehensible, very easy numbers, and viable to innovate.
This does not mean, of course, that your "problems" must remain. In fact, looking at the S3 demos so far, I haven't yet noticed any lag at all, so perhaps they really did "fix" your problems, as you desired.
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The average consumer doesn't know or can't even comprehend the raw power that certain SoCs are capable of, so I doubt they care if X phone has 2GHz and the other has 1Ghz. Apple normally doesn't boast about the CPU count in commercials, they boast about their OS & siri, that's how they win over millions each year. Everyone and their grandmothers know how flawless iOS is. Now I know I'm bashing Android severely, though I am a long time Android user and these are some of my views.
thebobp said:
This comes at a cost of so much less customizability. I find WP7 to be particularly guilty of this: only supports 480x800 resolution, no start screen background or landscape? My Launcher 7 is already more powerful than that and, thanks to not attempting any serious 3D stuff, shows no lag at all.
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True, WP7 offers the bare minimum when it comes to customization, which is an unfortunate sacrifice for speed. And Microsoft has set HW limitations to prevent fragmentation, which if I may, is devastating the Android market. We have Exynos over there, Snapdragon under there, and Tegra round yonder, and a large variety of screen types.
thebobp said:
The iPhone, however, makes us pay with user speed as well. Scrolling is slow, in order to maintain the illusion of smoothness, and the simplistic launcher without widgets forces you to switch around and manage everything yourself, getting data only by clicking on the appropriate app. As I hinted at the beginning, people cycles are so much more valuable than computer cycles, and sacrificing the former for the latter is nothing less than a travesty.
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Scrolling is slow? Are you using the 1st iPhone or something? Last time I tried my friend's 4S is was quite speedy, iOS has always been the fastest mobile OS available. If memory serves, iOS has also been GPU accelerated since the old days, a feature relatively new to Android and maybe WP7. I pretty sure you can visit every Android forum on XDA & at least 10 users will report that they have lag in X, Y, Z app. However if you did a poll with random iOS users I doubt if you would even find a black sheep.
I know this discussion has been around for quite some time, and I have read, for example, this and this. But I think that some aspects haven't been discussed yet.
All the arguments mcapozzi gave in the first thread I linked are very true, but, except for the kernel building on the device, which would not necessarily have to be done (there), they are all man-made. And as we all know the system works well for PCs, i.e. I installed Win 10 at the release day on an eight year old machine and everything worked perfectly fine, except for minor issues with the GFX driver, which had been resolved within a few weeks. And, in principle, a modern smart phone is not much different from a PC.
Of course the device manufacturers would be, let's call it reluctant, to agree to something like we have on the PC market. But, wouldn't Google by now have the power to force such a system on the manufacturers? I mean, if they don't play along Google could easily prevent them from using the Play Store and, with a licence change, even future Android versions. Both would probably prevent most companies from selling any more mobile phones.
And in the end I don't think it would be that bad for the manufacturers; obviously they would be selling less phones, but on the plus side they'd:
have greatly reduced software development costs (at least if they do Android upgrades properly right now)
be able to charge more for their phones, as they are actually worth more
sell more higher-end devices, because people would be willing to invest more money, if they knew that they could use their phones for as long as they like (or at least as long as the hardware is powerful enough to run the newest OS and apps)
still be able provide custom UIs as some sort of "app", if they wish
And, apart from that, phones will still wear off (physically) and there will still be hardware innovations that will make people want to by new phones, even if their old ones have the newest OS; and we must not forget the built-in batteries
Looking at this from the Google perspective: it would make the Android ecosystem much more attractive, and after all Google makes it's money with Android phones being used, not sold.
Now, I don't think I have to list the advantages for the users, do I?
So, what do you think this? I'd be glad to hear.
-Julian
P.S. No, I don't think Google is bold enough to actually do something like this, would be cool though.