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[Q] Noob ?s: New to Rooting, Not new to IT

Hi guys - Great website. I love the amount of information being exchanged here. I am new to the rooting environment, but I am not new to IT. I have an IT career, some entry level programming, SQL scripting, and have modded playstations and xboxes previously so I should be able to follow much of the technical talk.
I just purchased a Samsung Charge and have completed the one click root and have confirmed that I have root on ED1. So my questions are (please link to thread if answered elsewhere):
How do I determine which mod/rom is the best and safest to use? Gummy, Altered beast, etc?
Are any gingerbread based mods out or are they all froyo based for the Charge? What is the newest out and is there a projected release schedule?
How do I get the wireless hot stop working for free once I am rooted? Do I have to install a ROM?
Is the Odin application the best way to update the ROMs?
Is the ROM the OS update and the kernel the BIOS update?
It looks like there is an issue doing backups with Charge Mods, so how do I backup my phone? (it looks like the ability to backup has been removed from some mods)
So I am rooted. What are the next steps I need to follow: 1) Backup (how) 2) install new OS ROM????
Thanks for your time.

DawgPoundMBA said:
Hi guys - Great website. I love the amount of information being exchanged here. I am new to the rooting environment, but I am not new to IT. I have an IT career, some entry level programming, SQL scripting, and have modded playstations and xboxes previously so I should be able to follow much of the technical talk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome, you seem like a prime candidate for this adventure!
I just purchased a Samsung Charge and have completed the one click root and have confirmed that I have root on ED1. So my questions are (please link to thread if answered elsewhere):
How do I determine which mod/rom is the best and safest to use? Gummy, Altered beast, etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much just by reading their threads and seeing what issues people are having. That being said, the Charge ROMs are all pretty new, so safest is to just find a rooted version of stock, which you seem to have accomplished. The other ROMs are trying to improve on things by doing things such as "debloating" (removing useless stuff added by Verizon), etc., but this can have unintended consequences. For instance, with Altered Beast, you'll see he released fixed versions of stock apps which broke.
Are any gingerbread based mods out or are they all froyo based for the Charge? What is the newest out and is there a projected release schedule?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're all Froyo for now. I'd guess a Gingerbread version will be out within the next month or so, depending on how many devs are working on it. I think Gummy is slightly newer than Altered Beast, but that could change any second. Actually, the newest at this moment is the OTA (Over The Air) release from Verizon last night, EE4.
How do I get the wireless hot stop working for free once I am rooted? Do I have to install a ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just need to install an app. Search the market, or search the forums for what others are using. They're getting a little more difficult to find as Verizon has started blocking some of them from their version of the market.
Is the Odin application the best way to update the ROMs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right now it seems to be. Though once you use that and have CWM (ClockWork Mod) installed, you might be able to update using CWM. Still a little early to tell.
Is the ROM the OS update and the kernel the BIOS update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty close. ROM, as we usually use the term, refers to the Boot ROM, which is the first code run, and essentially the O/S, though some ROMs aren't a complete replacement for all of it. The kernel isn't quite as equivalent, but that's true to the extent that it handles communication between the software and the hardware.
It looks like there is an issue doing backups with Charge Mods, so how do I backup my phone? (it looks like the ability to backup has been removed from some mods)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's an issue with doing backups through CWM, but you can still use something like Titanium Backup. What do you want to backup? If it's just your software, settings, etc., that should be fine.
So I am rooted. What are the next steps I need to follow: 1) Backup (how) 2) install new OS ROM????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Use alternate software, such as Titanium Backup. 2) Use ODIN for now.
Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome!

I have the ED1 versions rooted with gingerbreak and used root explorer to change the script from ED1 to ED2. Everything is working good and launcher pro is making it look better, but is it safe to load altered beast or other roms using Odin or will it mess it up? I would like to get CWM on it to go straight into bootloader like I did with the Incredible.

The kernel shouldn't be related to a BIOS in a PC, that would be your bootloader. A kernel is part of an Operating system. Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X all have kernels. The kernel, as I understand it, is sort of like the middle man between the software you "see" and the hardware. Drivers are a core part of a kernel, but aren't the only thing in the kernel. A ROM, is the OS, as a kernel is included in any ROM. The ROM will consist of the applications included, be it themed applications or custom built ones, and a kernel.
Keep in mind this is a large generalization of the whole subject, but I think its a good overview.

psalm462 said:
I have the ED1 versions rooted with gingerbreak and used root explorer to change the script from ED1 to ED2. Everything is working good and launcher pro is making it look better, but is it safe to load altered beast or other roms using Odin or will it mess it up? I would like to get CWM on it to go straight into bootloader like I did with the Incredible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use Odin to install Altered Beast and you'll be fine. you might want to wait a couple of days to see what happens with this EE4 release, though.
morkon - good description of the kernel.

not to be a downer, but i wouldnt put any eta's on anything gingerbread related...my overly optimistic guess (based on no inside knowledge) for anything official would be late august...but knowing the vzw/samsung combo (regardless of the droid branding) #gingergate could be on until late Fall/Christmas

Thank you for the information. I will check it out in more detail when I get home from work.

nitsuj17 said:
not to be a downer, but i wouldnt put any eta's on anything gingerbread related...my overly optimistic guess (based on no inside knowledge) for anything official would be late august...but knowing the vzw/samsung combo (regardless of the droid branding) #gingergate could be on until late Fall/Christmas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't really expect an official Samsung Gingerbread ROM until next year. They are incredibly slow. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see an unofficial version well before then.

chadness said:
I wouldn't really expect an official Samsung Gingerbread ROM until next year. They are incredibly slow. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see an unofficial version well before then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incredibly slow, yet the DROID Charge just received it's 2nd OTA update in 1 month from release, and the Fascinate just got it's 6th/7th OTA update in the past 8 months as well, and as far as I know, the international SGS has had a similar number of updates come out for it as well. The problem isn't Samsung producing the updates (anymore), it's getting the carriers test them and submit feedback in a timely manner.
Given that the SGS line is getting Gingerbread over the summer from most reports I've read, I'd expect the Charge to get Gingerbread sometime late summer/fall, as well as the rest of the US lineup of SGS phones.

chadness said:
You can use Odin to install Altered Beast and you'll be fine. you might want to wait a couple of days to see what happens with this EE4 release, though.
morkon - good description of the kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, thanks! I have only had it a day and I have not played with ODIN, so it scares me to death. I can say that with one day of trying it, the GPS is horrible! It had me over 2 miles off.

I am not sure why the below happened, but I did soft brick. I restarted the whole process and it is moving along now so please disregard.
Question. I am using Odin to install alteredbeast. I held down the volume key until after i clicked start on the ROM. It has been working for about 5 minutes and on my phone i can see a downloading icon with a "AX_TIMEOUT" in red in the top left. Did I screw up?

DawgPoundMBA said:
I am not sure why the below happened, but I did soft brick. I restarted the whole process and it is moving along now so please disregard.
Question. I am using Odin to install alteredbeast. I held down the volume key until after i clicked start on the ROM. It has been working for about 5 minutes and on my phone i can see a downloading icon with a "AX_TIMEOUT" in red in the top left. Did I screw up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You only have to hold the down volume button for a few seconds, until you get to the yellow downloading screen. Im not sure if that has an effect, but I'd start over. Turn off any antivirus, plug in to your rear USB ports, and try again.

imnuts said:
Incredibly slow, yet the DROID Charge just received it's 2nd OTA update in 1 month from release, and the Fascinate just got it's 6th/7th OTA update in the past 8 months as well, and as far as I know, the international SGS has had a similar number of updates come out for it as well. The problem isn't Samsung producing the updates (anymore), it's getting the carriers test them and submit feedback in a timely manner.
Given that the SGS line is getting Gingerbread over the summer from most reports I've read, I'd expect the Charge to get Gingerbread sometime late summer/fall, as well as the rest of the US lineup of SGS phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're doing well on the bugfixes, I'll give them that. But with how long we waited for updates for my wife's Epic, I'm not super keen on Samsung's update schedule. They ranked last on the list of manufacturers updating to newer versions of software. That being said, I'm hoping with this as their Verizon flagship they'll stay on top of it.

It's laughable at this point.

ICS has also now been ported and boots up on the Droid 3 lol. Great work to Hashcode for getting it going!
http://hash-of-codes.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-got-your-ice-cream-on-my-droid-3-no.html

Well, it is a 3G phone, so there shouldn't be issues getting the radios working. I do find it amusing the type of the support these cheesy phones get though.
I don't want to get off topic, but I am curious what sort of CIQ and other potential spyware has been implemented in ICS. It seems a good opportunity for Google to embed CIQ deep within the framework, but alas, who knows.
The main two features of ICS that I think I would like, but don't need, is USB OTG and WiFi Direct.

spc_hicks09 said:
ICS has also now been ported and boots up on the Droid 3 lol. Great work to Hashcode for getting it going!
http://hash-of-codes.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-got-your-ice-cream-on-my-droid-3-no.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Smh we will never see it

I keep hearing we won't have ics because we have a 4g phone but the bionic just got ics port... Maybe we still have hope?
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA App

mikehal38 said:
I keep hearing we won't have ics because we have a 4g phone but the bionic just got ics port... Maybe we still have hope?
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good point!!!!

I'm one person, would you rather have me work on getting a good ROM out based on stock TW, or go to work on what may never be a fully functional AOSP build? If you want it so bad, no one here is going to stop you from taking up the work on your own...

imnuts said:
I'm one person, would you rather have me work on getting a good ROM out based on stock TW, or go to work on what may never be a fully functional AOSP build? If you want it so bad, no one here is going to stop you from taking up the work on your own...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't do it because of us! Do what you enjoy doing and share with us because your proud of your work.
I

imnuts said:
I'm one person, would you rather have me work on getting a good ROM out based on stock TW, or go to work on what may never be a fully functional AOSP build? If you want it so bad, no one here is going to stop you from taking up the work on your own...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You already know. Yes, we are eager for ICS/CM7.1/CM7.2/CM9...and everything under the sun that a working RIL would enable us. But, having said that, I think the vast majority of us place FUNCTION in front of FEATURES.
We, Android enthusists with the skills to flash but not actually dev, are like children and will never be satisfied. We need a healthy meal, but are going to whine to have candy for dinner every night. As a dev, you're more similar to our parent in this metaphor... Don't take it personally when we metaphorically say we hate you--we don't. We love you. We need your help to eat at all, so make sure it's the best meal you can provide.
Besides, if the RIL never comes, who bought this phone for Ice Cream Sandwich anyway? I bought this phone for 4G.

imnuts said:
I'm one person, would you rather have me work on getting a good ROM out based on stock TW, or go to work on what may never be a fully functional AOSP build? If you want it so bad, no one here is going to stop you from taking up the work on your own...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
imnuts, please don't take my post or the title the wrong way. I am in now way at all saying anything bad about what you do for this phone. Your work is very highly regarded in my book. I was just pointing out how crazy it is with all these ICS ports coming out now. I can promise you that I am grateful for all the work you do for us.

If you want an AOSP ROM, you shouldn't buy a Samsung phone.
Twice bitten for me. Neither of my Samsung phones has had an AOSP ROM.

As a self-proclaimed nube, I am generally curious what advantages we would see on AOSP anyways.
Is there some super-spiffy amazing bad-ass feature that I don't know about?
Humble 5.0 is great for me. I will try Infinity if/when its ready.
ICS in particular has WiFi Direct and USB OTG as I mentioned above, which I assume that CM7 wouldn't enable.

xdadevnube said:
As a self-proclaimed nube, I am generally curious what advantages we would see on AOSP anyways.
Is there some super-spiffy amazing bad-ass feature that I don't know about?
Humble 5.0 is great for me. I will try Infinity if/when its ready.
ICS in particular has WiFi Direct and USB OTG as I mentioned above, which I assume that CM7 wouldn't enable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AOSP tends to offer a faster experience, and better battery life. It does this by not having any carrier or OEM bloat anywhere. There is a lot of stuff added on to the stock ROM that cannot be removed. To give you an idea, a heavily debloated TW ROM for the Fascinate is usually ~160MB, give or take, where as a stock AOSP ROM is <100MB for the same Android version, GB in this case. That would mean that even the best debloated/cleaned up TouchWiz ROM is still going to have about 40% more useless junk in it than a stock AOSP ROM, and that junk slows down the system and drains the battery.

mikehal38 said:
I keep hearing we won't have ics because we have a 4g phone but the bionic just got ics port... Maybe we still have hope?
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bionic got ICS support because Kejar has a Bionic probably. I'm just glad we are on the eve of GB finally and that Imnuts and Imoseyon can get to business with some code.
Over the years around computers I've learned one thing, the next OS is always easier to use, easier to program in and what not, but it is always more complex and requires more hardware, more RAM and shortly after release the end user experience isn't all that much better than it was 6 months earlier. You should see DOS 5 run on a quad core monster processor - wow!

Droidianslip said:
Bionic got ICS support because Kejar has a Bionic probably. I'm just glad we are on the eve of GB finally and that Imnuts and Imoseyon can get to business with some code.
Over the years around computers I've learned one thing, the next OS is always easier to use, easier to program in and what not, but it is always more complex and requires more hardware, more RAM and shortly after release the end user experience isn't all that much better than it was 6 months earlier. You should see DOS 5 run on a quad core monster processor - wow!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with what you're saying mostly, but your post almost sounds like you expect Imnuts and Imoseyon to develop and post their work when they have zero obligation to develop and/or share any of their work in any way. If I wasn't so hard-pressed for cash, I would donate more to the devs. I will when I am able though.
One should also remember the short life cycle of smartphones. I am already looking forward to the Galaxy S III mostly for the display- SAMOLED III.
Also, I would like to be able to watch 480p Flash content in the browser without having to overclock, hopefully 720p Flash in the browser with the GS3.
Of course I would like my Charge to blaze along at its maximum potential, but there is a thin line between spending and wasting time on dated hardware. If you want the the best experience on a device, then it would be best to buy older hardware that it well-developed, like the Fascinate. I am willing to sacrifice for the perks of the Charge, like the SAMOLED+ display and 4G.

New owner - Couple questions

Ok, you may have seen me asking questions about the Note in the last couple days.. and today I ventured out and actually bought one
A grey 16gb wi-fi model.
So now, I have a couple of questions I wanted to ask before I started installing lots of apps onto this thing!
First off, I have been looking into the JB stuff, which is one of the main reasons I wanted the Note. It seems that this is not out in the UK yet (or anywhere except Germany?) but there are ways to root the Note and install it...
Except it seems these (and every other ROM) are all designed for only the 8000 model? Which *I believe* is the wifi+3G model...
1 - So does this mean I cant use many custom roms? As they seem to be designed for the 8000? or is this irrelevent?
(I did find this thread about it http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1982821 except it seems that the JB install makes the battery drain around 3 hours quicker than it should? OR is this standard for jellybean? (seems strange)
2 - Alternatively, is it recommended just to wait for the official JB release. Seems its expected any day now, though who knows when that would be in reality.
3 - Something I was curious about... has any of the custom roms managed to keep the samsung ability to have multiview/dualview etc? Or do they just revert you to a customised version of standard Android?
4 - Anything that its recommended I do first, or install first, before I get going? Full battery charge would seem an idea, though I think I need to drain the battery first... Been a long time since my iPad was new, cant remember the right ways to do things anymore.

nirurin said:
Ok, you may have seen me asking questions about the Note in the last couple days.. and today I ventured out and actually bought one
A grey 16gb wi-fi model.
So now, I have a couple of questions I wanted to ask before I started installing lots of apps onto this thing!
First off, I have been looking into the JB stuff, which is one of the main reasons I wanted the Note. It seems that this is not out in the UK yet (or anywhere except Germany?) but there are ways to root the Note and install it...
Except it seems these (and every other ROM) are all designed for only the 8000 model? Which *I believe* is the wifi+3G model...
1 - So does this mean I cant use many custom roms? As they seem to be designed for the 8000? or is this irrelevent?
(I did find this thread about it http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1982821 except it seems that the JB install makes the battery drain around 3 hours quicker than it should? OR is this standard for jellybean? (seems strange)
2 - Alternatively, is it recommended just to wait for the official JB release. Seems its expected any day now, though who knows when that would be in reality.
3 - Something I was curious about... has any of the custom roms managed to keep the samsung ability to have multiview/dualview etc? Or do they just revert you to a customised version of standard Android?
4 - Anything that its recommended I do first, or install first, before I get going? Full battery charge would seem an idea, though I think I need to drain the battery first... Been a long time since my iPad was new, cant remember the right ways to do things anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) There are usually tweaks that allow you to use the ROM, even if your device isn't the 8000. Keep in mind that those roms have telephony services, and will be looking for a 3G signal (unless disabled).
2) If you are staying stock I recommend waiting. If not, flash CM10. It's lovely!
3) It depends on if it is stock based or AOSP/CM based. Stock based roms retain all of the original functionality, but adds speed, animation, theme, and other misc tweaks. AOSP based roms lose all of the Samsung Touchwiz specific functionality (Multi-window, S apps), but give you a pure android experience and look. Of course, CM also has a cool theme chooser!
4) I believe you should charge it first, but others will correct me if I am mistaken
Enjoy your awesome new Note!

Jonphinguyen7 said:
1) There are usually tweaks that allow you to use the ROM, even if your device isn't the 8000. Keep in mind that those roms have telephony services, and will be looking for a 3G signal (unless disabled).
2) If you are staying stock I recommend waiting. If not, flash CM10. It's lovely!
3) It depends on if it is stock based or AOSP/CM based. Stock based roms retain all of the original functionality, but adds speed, animation, theme, and other misc tweaks. AOSP based roms lose all of the Samsung Touchwiz specific functionality (Multi-window, S apps), but give you a pure android experience and look. Of course, CM also has a cool theme chooser!
4) I believe you should charge it first, but others will correct me if I am mistaken
Enjoy your awesome new Note!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Its nice that I have the options to play with it then, I'm sure there are ways to disable the 3G search. I was tempted to get it, but it didnt seem worth the extra £100+ (I got my note on an offer)
2) I assume I can flash CM10 while I wait, and return to stock when it is released? I'm only used to iOS jailbreaking, where you can always return to stock easily... I'd assumed this would work in a similar way?
3) It would be a shame to lose out on the samsung stuff... I'm not hooked on touchWiz or anything, but the multi-window stuff in the new JB update looked pretty snazzy. Of course in a years time I may change to pure android roms, if only to keep updated (I expect samsung will stop making their own updates soon enough)
4) I plugged it in briefly, saw it already had half a charge, and so unplugged it ... I cant remember if I should charge it to full first, then discharge it to 0%... or run it flat then charge it to full. Or if it makes no difference at all. Curse you technology!!
edit:
5) Any recommended apps? I assume I can chuck on AVG or similar, is there anything specific I should use for backups etc?

All Android devices seem to have a real problem if you truly run the battery down to 0. I would say, get it close, but not to the point of dying.
As far as the German JB ROM, there's a patch to disable the phone stuff. I'm running it on a WiFi only 8013 and it's fine. Just read everything you can. Read the threads from the first page to the last.
Frankly, I've always been a custom ROM kind of guy. But the multi-view stuff is just so awesome, especially the JB version, that I'm sticking with stock. Changed the launcher, but sticking with stock.

midas69 said:
All Android devices seem to have a real problem if you truly run the battery down to 0. I would say, get it close, but not to the point of dying.
As far as the German JB ROM, there's a patch to disable the phone stuff. I'm running it on a WiFi only 8013 and it's fine. Just read everything you can. Read the threads from the first page to the last.
Frankly, I've always been a custom ROM kind of guy. But the multi-view stuff is just so awesome, especially the JB version, that I'm sticking with stock. Changed the launcher, but sticking with stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this. As it is getting late already, and I have work tomorrow, I may just stick to the ICS for now and get a couple basic apps and have a play around. You never know, the update may turn up!
I would just go for the JB one tonight, but I will need to find a step-by-step guide to help me, as I only have experience with the iOS jailbreaking process.

midas69 said:
All Android devices seem to have a real problem if you truly run the battery down to 0. I would say, get it close, but not to the point of dying.
As far as the German JB ROM, there's a patch to disable the phone stuff. I'm running it on a WiFi only 8013 and it's fine. Just read everything you can. Read the threads from the first page to the last.
Frankly, I've always been a custom ROM kind of guy. But the multi-view stuff is just so awesome, especially the JB version, that I'm sticking with stock. Changed the launcher, but sticking with stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is ur battery life on this rom, just got this tab a few days ago .thanks.

mankoorb said:
How is ur battery life on this rom, just got this tab a few days ago .thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was better with ICS. But it's still pretty good. Last week I watched 4½ hours of video and still had about 52% battery life left. It seems like every version of Android they come out with gets slightly worse with regards to battery life. But in this case I think the extras that JB adds makes it a worthwhile tradeoff. In JB the difference seems to come from the addition of Google Now. I'm tempted to turn it off since I really don't use it other than to shut up iPhone users

After some research, it seems rooting is even more complicated than I first thought... because of the "binary counter" that samsung now has on their devices.
It seems that you can reset this counter, but I think it would only be sensible to road-test the tablet as stock first, in case it has any obvious faults that need to be sorted under warranty...
Although I do hate being sensible.

Same. I usually stay stock/un-rooted for about a month.. or two.. then I can't help it and just want to root and do other stuff. But for now, I have all that I really need for my Note at the moment without needing to root.

nirurin said:
After some research, it seems rooting is even more complicated than I first thought... because of the "binary counter" that samsung now has on their devices.
It seems that you can reset this counter, but I think it would only be sensible to road-test the tablet as stock first, in case it has any obvious faults that need to be sorted under warranty...
Although I do hate being sensible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahaha, I felt the same way. I actually bought mine about a week before the Nexus 10 official announcement. I wanted to wait to make a decision on whether to keep the Note or send it back and get the Nexus 10. I was going to wait to root until I heard the full details and made the decision.
I was rooted about 2 hours after I took it home :laugh:
I hope your resolve lasts longer than mine did.

I rooted immediately, I have SG3 & 2, and I still have the galaxy 10.1 running a jb Rom. Guess I should of played with stock a little more, but really wanna see how the development is.

mankoorb said:
I rooted immediately, I have SG3 & 2, and I still have the galaxy 10.1 running a jb Rom. Guess I should of played with stock a little more, but really wanna see how the development is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd be happy with stock (for a while at least), if the current stock was the jellybean update lol.
I will attempt to keep myself entertained with the differences between my old iPad1 and this fancy new tablet, and hope that distracts me until samsung release the UK JB.
Hope its soon!
Strange how Germany got it first... and as far as I know is the only place to get it? and that was 3 weeks ago now. Odd.

Apparently you got your wish... JB for UK dropped today, unfortunately for all you guys with wifi only, you seem to be the redheaded freckle faced kid in the shade that can't come out to play because its for the 3g model only again....
Personally, I'd root that sucker and try the new JB update.... You won't be disappointed....

Well I have a 3G model but I am from India so no update yet for me so kind of sucks

ultramag69 said:
Apparently you got your wish... JB for UK dropped today, unfortunately for all you guys with wifi only, you seem to be the redheaded freckle faced kid in the shade that can't come out to play because its for the 3g model only again....
Personally, I'd root that sucker and try the new JB update.... You won't be disappointed....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeh, I was initially tempted by the 3G model... But it would have been over £100 more expensive, plus a monthly subscription for data, and just isn't worth it.
Although its frustrating that Samsung will probably now wait another month before updating the wifi model... I don't think Germany even has it yet?

Couldn't you buy it outright? Then its up to you to either buy a plan, prepaid sim or use as a wifi model.... I personally prefer to get the 3g model simply because there may come a time when I need to use it.
I have a few 3g tablets, note 10.1, galaxy tab 7" and Acer Iconia A501.... Not all of these have sim cards but the potential is there if needed....

ultramag69 said:
Couldn't you buy it outright? Then its up to you to either buy a plan, prepaid sim or use as a wifi model.... I personally prefer to get the 3g model simply because there may come a time when I need to use it.
I have a few 3g tablets, note 10.1, galaxy tab 7" and Acer Iconia A501.... Not all of these have sim cards but the potential is there if needed....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yes, but thats the point I was making... to buy it outright would have cost me an extra £100, and I simply dont have that much money to throw away.
If I was going to make a lot of use out of it, then fine... but I doubt I will. If I need internet on the move, I have my GalaxyS2,
Or, if for some reason I need internet on the move *specifically* on my tablet... I have my GalaxyS2 and tethering.
Saving myself over £100 means... well that £100 has bought me a really nice case, a 64GB microSD card, and a 4-in-1 adaptor for using USB/miniUSB/SD cards with the Note. And I still have £30 left over!
More than worth it, in my book. Just a shame we have t wait for the darned JB update so I can actually use the 64gb stick!

KitKat?

When should we expect the release of KitKat for the Relay?

When TeamApexQ deems fit to release it.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire2 using Tapatalk 4

Nardholio said:
When TeamApexQ deems fit to release it.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nardholio, do you expect any major innovations, and most importantly, any major sources of bugs or instabilities with KitKat?
Thanks!!

Guiyoforward said:
Nardholio, do you expect any major innovations, and most importantly, any major sources of bugs or instabilities with KitKat?
Thanks!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a question we won't really be able to answer until there is more solid information on KitKat generally available.

Looks like CM is setting up the KitKat AOSP code for there builds Check out @CyanogenMod's Tweet: https://twitter.com/CyanogenMod/status/396000889011326976
Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 AM ----------
Cyanogenmod Google+ post " Android 4.4 Source
Source is now being pushed to the AOSP trees. Of course, when it is all there we will begin the process of figuring out what changed, needs work, and/or is no longer feasible or needed.*
We are not in a rush to get 4.4 builds out. We are going to continue the process of working on CM 10.2 M1 - getting that out the door and onto your devices. Further, we will 'finish' the 10.2 code base, similar to what we did with 10.1.*
As a friendly reminder, please don't flood us with requests for 4.4 - we all want new and shiny things, but we will not do so at the expense of abandoning the hard work our contributors have put into 10.2.*
Final note, a lot of folks are reading into the "512mb" item on the release notes. No, this does not mean a sudden resurrection of older hardware, there are dependencies beyond the RAM (and CM has enforced that minimum since ICS)."
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pst @Magamo this thread was best ended with a simple "when I say so" response and nothing more
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Nardholio said:
pst @Magamo this thread was best ended with a simple "when I say so" response and nothing more
Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually was referring to an official KitKat OTA update from T-mobile.
How long did it take them to release a JB update after it was first introduced?
I have no interest in a CM ROM full of bugs and things that don't work.

andrewsfm said:
I actually was referring to an official KitKat OTA update from T-mobile.
How long did it take them to release a JB update after it was first introduced?
I have no interest in a CM ROM full of bugs and things that don't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given that we never got upgraded to 4.2 or 4.3 by T-mobile/Samsung, I kinda doubt we'll be getting an official 4.4. And our CM rom, which has been built for us by a couple of people working for free, currently has fewer bugs than the official ROMs.

Jax184 said:
Given that we never got upgraded to 4.2 or 4.3 by T-mobile/Samsung, I kinda doubt we'll be getting an official 4.4. And our CM rom, which has been built for us by a couple of people working for free, currently has fewer bugs than the official ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4.2 and 4.3 were minor updates with no name change. JB was a major update and they did update to it.
4.4 KitKat being a major update, I've got my fingers crossed considering the wide range of devices that it's being planned for.
Was just hoping to see if there was any news on a KK update for this model.
CM is fun to play with and all, but it's not something I would trust on an everyday phone.

I use CM as a daily driver every day, and have been doing so since 10.2 became CyanogenMod official - everything just works. Now I'm not one of those people who demands a LOT of my phone, but I use it in the course of doing my job daily and it performs better, and more efficiently (with regards to battery consumption) than it did on the debloated stock rom, so much so that I deleted my Nandroid of that setup.
Sent from my SGH-T699 using the XDA-Developers app.

onebornoflight said:
I use CM as a daily driver every day, and have been doing so since 10.2 became CyanogenMod official - everything just works. Now I'm not one of those people who demands a LOT of my phone, but I use it in the course of doing my job daily and it performs better, and more efficiently (with regards to battery consumption) than it did on the debloated stock rom, so much so that I deleted my Nandroid of that setup.
Sent from my SGH-T699 using the XDA-Developers app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure if I fall into the category of demanding alot from my phone, but if there are issues like, Wifi and BT can't be on at the same time, that's not good enough. That's a serious issue. So if I forget to turn one of them off, stuff stops working? That's not okay...
I want my camera to work, for videos and photos. I want the phone to do everything the hardware is supposed to do.

andrewsfm said:
I'm not sure if I fall into the category of demanding alot from my phone, but if there are issues like, Wifi and BT can't be on at the same time, that's not good enough. That's a serious issue. So if I forget to turn one of them off, stuff stops working? That's not okay...
I want my camera to work, for videos and photos. I want the phone to do everything the hardware is supposed to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome! And you want that for free? You don't seem to appreciate a lot the effort that other people are putting into this...

The wifi/bluetooth issue isn't that bad. It only falls apart when WiFi is on and connected to a 2.4GHz access point, and bluetooth is on and connected to a bluetooth device. If you have an N wifi access point that operates at 5Ghz, you can just connect to that instead of the 2.4Ghz node and then the two play nice. It's what I do.

Jax184 said:
The wifi/bluetooth issue isn't that bad. It only falls apart when WiFi is on and connected to a 2.4GHz access point, and bluetooth is on and connected to a bluetooth device. If you have an N wifi access point that operates at 5Ghz, you can just connect to that instead of the 2.4Ghz node and then the two play nice. It's what I do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would do this if I had a 5GHz AP, but what I'm saying is that I don't want to have to worry about stuff like that.
Guiyoforward said:
Awesome! And you want that for free? You don't seem to appreciate a lot the effort that other people are putting into this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want anything for free, except a stock KitKat update from T-Mobile/Samsung for the hardware I paid for... At no point did I say I was interested in CM. I've been explaining why I'm not, the whole time.
I started this thread to find out how long historically after the release of a new OS, does it usually take Samsung/T-Mobile to release an OTA?

andrewsfm said:
I would do this if I had a 5GHz AP, but what I'm saying is that I don't want to have to worry about stuff like that.
I don't want anything for free, except a stock KitKat update from T-Mobile/Samsung for the hardware I paid for... At no point did I say I was interested in CM. I've been explaining why I'm not, the whole time.
I started this thread to find out how long historically after the release of a new OS, does it usually take Samsung/T-Mobile to release an OTA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Normally only after the Samsung high-end phones get the update and they are just barely getting Android 4.3. It also depends if they decide to update this phone at all. I have been asking t-mobile and Samsung that and they keep blaming each other or referring me to the forum for the phone on there websites.
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chris122380 said:
Normally only after the Samsung high-end phones get the update and they are just barely getting Android 4.3. It also depends if they decide to update this phone at all. I have been asking t-mobile and Samsung that and they keep blaming each other or referring me to the forum for the phone on there websites.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess Windows has spoiled me, because I don't understand how it's so hard to port Android to each device.
AMD or Intel, they both use the same instruction set, so they work on any x86/x64 processor, and then you install drivers for your hardware peripherals.
Shouldn't Android run on any ARM processor, and then just have drivers that need to be plugged into it for each component of the phone to work?
Apparently it's a lot more complicated than that, but why...

andrewsfm said:
I guess Windows has spoiled me, because I don't understand how it's so hard to port Android to each device.
AMD or Intel, they both use the same instruction set, so they work on any x86/x64 processor, and then you install drivers for your hardware peripherals.
Shouldn't Android run on any ARM processor, and then just have drivers that need to be plugged into it for each component of the phone to work?
Apparently it's a lot more complicated than that, but why...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lot of the complexity comes from the manufacturers of the SoCs not opening up the workings of their drivers to the wider world that makes porting to new devices, and to new versions of Android so difficult. Things work on one kernel, or one interface, and that's it, and we have no way of tweaking it to work in other ways. Back to the subject at hand. I personally suspect that the Relay will get no official update to KitKat. The Relay is over a year old, T-Mobile has been trying to dump it since 2013 began, and they are the only retailer. The 4.1.2 Jelly Bean updates were rolling out to the then mainline Samsung phones within a week of the Relay's release in September 2012, and we didn't get our update (which frankly is a broken PoS, ESPECIALLY when held up against any CM build for the Relay) until March or April of '13, so expect another 6 months before we MIGHT (and likely won't) get an official 4.3 update.

Looks like coding for CM 11 has started. Check out @CyanogenMod's Tweet: https://twitter.com/CyanogenMod/status/397817644650205185
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Magamo said:
A lot of the complexity comes from the manufacturers of the SoCs not opening up the workings of their drivers to the wider world that makes porting to new devices, and to new versions of Android so difficult. Things work on one kernel, or one interface, and that's it, and we have no way of tweaking it to work in other ways. Back to the subject at hand. I personally suspect that the Relay will get no official update to KitKat. The Relay is over a year old, T-Mobile has been trying to dump it since 2013 began, and they are the only retailer. The 4.1.2 Jelly Bean updates were rolling out to the then mainline Samsung phones within a week of the Relay's release in September 2012, and we didn't get our update (which frankly is a broken PoS, ESPECIALLY when held up against any CM build for the Relay) until March or April of '13, so expect another 6 months before we MIGHT (and likely won't) get an official 4.3 update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah k I see. The hardware vendors are mostly to blame it seems.
I may try a stable CM11 if that ever sees the light of day, but I won't hold my breath.
I've heard about the official JB ROM being problematic, so I plan to stay on ICS the phone originally shipped with.
I'm just glad to be getting rid of my Droid3 and Gingerbread.

andrewsfm said:
Ah k I see. The hardware vendors are mostly to blame it seems.
I may try a stable CM11 if that ever sees the light of day, but I won't hold my breath.
I've heard about the official JB ROM being problematic, so I plan to stay on ICS the phone originally shipped with.
I'm just glad to be getting rid of my Droid3 and Gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, there have been some bugs. However, I use the official nightly of cm10.2 as a daily driver. I'd rather put up with the MINOR issues that are left (hardware is stable for the most part) than have a manufacturer ROM. IMHO, the stock ROM that comes with the phone is usually full of crap bloat ware that I don't use and takes up space, and a UI that is SEVERELY limited in customization.
Also, the more people participate and report problems, the faster it takes TeamApex to fix and push out. At least team apex RESPONDS to their users. As mentioned before, it can take as long as 6-8 months after an android release for the manufacturer to roll out an update...still full of crap ware that's NOT used and cannot be uninstalled without root privileges or botching up the UI further.
These people who work tirelessly to provide to us, the end user, an updated version of Android, do so out of their own free will, and don't get a penny. These devs are here to proudly share what they have created, and I applaud and give my utmost respect to them.
You don't wanna install aftermarket firmware? Don't want to aid in bug reporting? Fine, put up with the crap that the manufacturer pushes onto you. Plus, Samsung & T-Mobile don't get any more of your hard earn dollars rolling out an Android update for our year-old device. They'd rather you dump it and buy the latest phone. THAT'S THEIR BUSINESS MODEL! So they have no interest in rushing an update to something as "old" as the Relay.
If you want JB or KK and are unwilling to wait for & install after-market firmware, I suggest you pony up the dough and buy a nexus 5. Better still, learn how to dev and make your own version of JB or KK for the Relay. That's the beauty of open source.
Your rant and *****ing about when "they are going to develop Kit Kat" makes you come across as arrogant, snobbish, and child-like.
Sorry for MY ranting, but it's unappreciative asshats like andre that just piss me off.
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KitKat 4.4

Sssooo.... According to what I read last night, KitKat is supposed to be able to be usable on pretty much all Android phones, all the way down to those with 512mb of RAM.
Any thoughts as to whether the Charge is gonna get some love with this (certainly, I know, NOT from Big Red)?
"I've got a revolution behind my eyes..."
--Battle Flag

There will be peace in the middle east first. :banghead:
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Just because they say it could run on lower end phones doesn't mean it will run w/o lag and so on. I heard the chez won't be getting kit Kat so what does that tell you about the older phones.
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The only thing that will run on lower end devices is the new launcher and Google apps. The new ui is supposed to be included in the new launcher and make lower end devices feel and look more like newer ones.
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lazarus0000 said:
Sssooo.... According to what I read last night, KitKat is supposed to be able to be usable on pretty much all Android phones, all the way down to those with 512mb of RAM.
Any thoughts as to whether the Charge is gonna get some love with this (certainly, I know, NOT from Big Red)?
"I've got a revolution behind my eyes..."
--Battle Flag
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with an upgrade to any newer OS on the Charge is the radios. I don't see KitKat and an exception.:crying::crying:

Interesting how they had it where you could use Hangouts as your default SMS App with all the Emoji smileys on phones with Gingerbread including the Charge on the leaked version from the Nexus 5. It was fully working and I tried it. However, now that it's released to everybody through the Play Store, the SMS option is for Android 4.0 Only.

just got kitkat on my razr.... wish I knew how to port, b/c then I would attempt to port this great ROM over to the old Charge....

I'm interested in doing a CM11 build for the Charge or atleast a CM 10.2 build. I have a Galaxy S4 now but I would love to get some use out of the charge. I just want to turn it into a kickass media player since the RIL situation is never going to get solved. If anyone knows what is involved to make this happen it would help me greatly. I've never built CM before. I've read the CM developer wiki. A lot is over my head. I am trying to learn though

pyroman512 said:
I'm interested in doing a CM11 build for the Charge or atleast a CM 10.2 build. I have a Galaxy S4 now but I would love to get some use out of the charge. I just want to turn it into a kickass media player since the RIL situation is never going to get solved. If anyone knows what is involved to make this happen it would help me greatly. I've never built CM before. I've read the CM developer wiki. A lot is over my head. I am trying to learn though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2284985
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Doc:_porting_intro

pyroman512 said:
I'm interested in doing a CM11 build for the Charge or atleast a CM 10.2 build. I have a Galaxy S4 now but I would love to get some use out of the charge. I just want to turn it into a kickass media player since the RIL situation is never going to get solved. If anyone knows what is involved to make this happen it would help me greatly. I've never built CM before. I've read the CM developer wiki. A lot is over my head. I am trying to learn though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're on the right track, though I think I'd stick with CM11 rather than CM10.2.

Well I am really interested in learning how to build. So I think I will run a few builds for the Fascinate and then see what I can do for the Charge. My programming experience is intermediate. I feel confident I can learn the process and at least get a semi functional kitkat build up and running and then maybe others could help work out the bugs

pyroman512 said:
Well I am really interested in learning how to build. So I think I will run a few builds for the Fascinate and then see what I can do for the Charge. My programming experience is intermediate. I feel confident I can learn the process and at least get a semi functional kitkat build up and running and then maybe others could help work out the bugs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good luck brother... i'd be glad to test for ya.
some tips that you may/may not already know:
my understanding is that OS 4+ require EXT4 rather than RFS, so it might help to start with a kernel that allows this conversion. there are a few floating around that work.
someone (JT) has successfully (and I guess relatively easily) ported ICS and JB to the charge, the key aspects not working though were mobile data and camera.
I'm told the key road block is the RIL for the kernel in order to get those aspects functioning properly.
as for me, I'd be happy with just a working camera, as the Charge is used by my son as a WiFi-only media player/gaming device. he likes to take pictures/videos, so this is the only thing preventing me from converting it the latest JB port.
again, good luck, and let us know how the progress goes!

Well I just started a new job and am settling into that so time will be scarce for a bit. I wouldn't even know how to start with the RIL. I would definitely want to get the camera working provided I can even successfully build CM11. I want to make it clear that I am new to this so it is a big undertaking for me and I have a lot to learn. Once I get a build enviroment set up I will see if I can make some fascinate builds for practice since it is very similar to the charge. Then i will reach out to sbrissen or jt1134 and see if they can give me any pointers. I forked their code on github already.

pyroman512 said:
Well I just started a new job and am settling into that so time will be scarce for a bit. I wouldn't even know how to start with the RIL. I would definitely want to get the camera working provided I can even successfully build CM11. I want to make it clear that I am new to this so it is a big undertaking for me and I have a lot to learn. Once I get a build enviroment set up I will see if I can make some fascinate builds for practice since it is very similar to the charge. Then i will reach out to sbrissen or jt1134 and see if they can give me any pointers. I forked their code on github already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a previous owner of a droid charge, I honestly hope I can squeeze some use out of it as a media device.