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1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.
Oddly I aggree with most of that, esp the marketing, you know I just found out just how good google voice was the other day... I have had android phones now for 3 years... Lol.
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funny you should bring up google voice. That was one of the things that I was thinking about when it comes to advertising short comings. It has been a great feature and a solid performer and now with Jellybean, it has every function of Siri, with the performance level I have come to expect from Google voice.
google needs to talk about it in plain English with every day examples of implementation
All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago. If it reassures the OP: the rumor that Google plans to expand the Nexus line to more manufacturers is a good thing for us XDAers and friends of XDAers.
alpha-niner64 said:
All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago.
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1st off, other companies doing it too, its not a reason to ignore said issue. Also, windows is taking steps to correct the hardware issue and make there OS consistent (for example)
If you think google doesn't "have to" advertise, I guess your right but even companies like 3M who sells many products to OEM's that then sell to the end user (like google) advertise to further there brand and promote the use of there products by OEM's. Also, 3M knows more about the products than any one OEM that uses there products, not to mention, the OEM's that use 3M consider 3M to be one of the reasons there product is good, and will not focus on key points of the 3M element.
Also, look at gorilla glass from corning, another product that isn't sold direct to the end user. They do there own advertising to promote there product and increase brand recognition to better sell there product.
I also disagree that google is a developer selling to developers only. Google nexus 7 is a perfect example of that. The nexus 7 tab is meant to further the "play store" brand, and is being sold at a vary low price point in the hopes that play store sales will make up for it just like the Kindle. I also don't think the Galaxy Nexus is a "developer device" at least, not exclusively.
So does google have to, no. Should they want to, yes.
What would you have Google advertise about that other companies should be doing in their stead? Google has brand recognition already and it's pretty clear by Google I/O that their intended audience isn't the Apple crowd: so who else would there be to advertise to? If the Apple crowd is whom you're referring to: that should be Samsung, HTC, Sony's job to do. What can Google do to help those manufacturers sell their features to the consumer that those companies aren't already doing themselves?
This is where we are going to disagree. Google has brand recognition but Android has far less. Verizon, did the best job and now the "droid" brand has more recognition than "android", many times "droid" is used and the general brand for all android by consumers. I don't think Google should depend on hardware companies to advertise there product. Even windows advertises there software. The OEM's should ALSO advertise but not ONLY advertise.
Advertising that the Galaxy nexus has a "unlockable" boot loader is un needed and doesnt further the brand. 98% of the people who want a unlocked boot loader, knew the galaxy nexus had one before the ad hit the streets.
The fact that apple fans are oviusly not googles target market is or should be false (proven by samsung). Google should be polishing there OS so that more of apple users would be interested. Google will not be able to continue on for ever just appealing to a small market such as the XDA community. OEM's will abandon them if that was the case. Look at the OEM's and there behavior, they are not interested in selling phones to the developer community only, otherwise Motorola would not lock there phones down as they did, or at least they would offer developers unlock tools like HTC has done. HTC is a little more "developer marketed" but lets be real, they still drag there feet when ever they can or feel pressure from the big 3.
That leads me to the Carrier's, they do not want to sell phones marketed to developers that are easily hacked and modded. they want control. Google should want to sell the most units they can within reason. This means helping the developer community with there goals and helping the OEM's and Carrier's with there's. Google should be (and I think they are) trying to make android more marketable to the masses and then lead that marketing campaign by example.
Its like that old saying, "alone with your principles". You can stand here and say that the OEM's should do all the advertising but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't doing what needs to be done and google need to sell product that is dependent on the platform. They are an advertising company so do they sit back and hope HTC and Samsung start talking more about there product and doing more to show how it will improve our lives or should they step in and show the OEM's how its done, at the same time increasing the value of there products
I think a lot of your issues are going to be solved for the mainstream with more Nexus devices rolling out. The other great thing is that as more people start looking at Nexus flexibility and timely updates the more other OEMs will be forced to follow suit if they want to stay viable. It seems Sony and to some extent HTC and Samsung are pretty serious about both the hardware and update side of things so anyone else will just have to play catch-up.
As a whole though some of these things will continue to persist. One of the draws of Android devices is having smartphone abilities without ridiculous cost. There will always be people who want the goodies but don't have a lot of extra funds and those devices will simply be a little behind the curve. With the optimizations coming via Jellybean though OEMs won't have the excuse of claiming that newer versions are too complex for older phones and I would hope that they continue to push updates for a reasonable period.
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
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if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.
dB Zac said:
if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.
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So? Google gets no say in how they manipulate the OS. I mean seriously...battery life? How the f*** could that be a google issue?
I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
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dB Zac said:
I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2
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Sounds like you need an Iphone..
lowandbehold said:
Sounds like you need an Iphone..
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So I have to love it and ignore any and all short coming or be crusified? Ok sounds like a page from apple fanboyism
here, since you will not read the whole thing before commenting, i will post the part you seemed to miss
dB Zac said:
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dB Zac said:
1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.
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Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.
lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
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http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/03/14/android-isnt-really-open-its-just-less-closed-than-apple/
Google only cares about advertising (and like to snoop in on what you do, say, what you buy, where you shop, visit, etc... ) of course.
But they do have pretty good control over Android.
lowandbehold said:
Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.
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Click to collapse
1st off, "droid" always running blur was not the point and incorrect. Verizon owns the "droid" name, as it is licensed to them by Lucus Industries. hence the HTC phones under that same brand name. I was commenting on the superior advertizing and Branding that Verizon did. The Droid 1 was a great vanilla phone that did well in a large part, due to advertizing. The verizon campain made "droid" a household name, more so than "Android".
2nd google can advertise features and the OS without advertising a specifice peice of hardware, windows does it all the time. Also, since google does have Google branded harware (nexus), they are in the hardware biz and should advertize aas such.
"Verizon sucks" based on what I can only emagin was your reasoning for this statement, I'm sure all major cariers "suck, not really the point here. Out of all the cariers, Verizon, furthered the android the most in the last 3 years out of anyone. Only now is Samsung beging to be the leader in promoting the android platform.
I agree with you on this, anyone who ask me what phone to get, i personally recommend iPhone UNLESS the guy knows his stuff, i myself LOVE android, been using it for 3 years now but i am software developer and very much familiar with kernels and bootloaders and and and , someone was aksing me the other day, since Android has much bigger marketshare, why everything comes out for iPhone first?
answer is simple, as a developer making things for iPhone is sooooo much easier, you only have "ONE" screen dimension to worry about, you only got 3-4 phones to worry about which 90% of them are similar, now compare this with android phones !!!
and last as everyone mentioned is advertising, personally i think google and all manufacturers do a HORRIBLE job promoting , remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things,
Personally i think iPhone WORKS, its great for people who dont think outside the box, they want something that WORKS and thats it, they like to be TOLD what to do, how to use your phone , and they follow it.
Android is for thone who like to explore, install custom ROMs , play with OC/UV , etc.
Raul77 said:
remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things
thats another real good example of, others were 1st but Apple advertizes better
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I actually came from a blackberry, where in convention they make and market their devices.
When I switched to android now essentially Samsung was giving me their flavour of what they call android through Touchwiz and I really hated it.
Google should really take sometime to ensure manufacturers aren't dumbing down the platform for consumers and give users a clear overview of how it can serve them. Which is exactly what Google does with its Nexus.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
It's looking very dim for samsung at this point. My overall observation is how big of a blow would this win if Apple wins be to the Android OS?
http://allthingsd.com/20120806/iphone-caused-crisis-of-design-at-samsung-memo/
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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That can't handle that "beast".
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screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
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Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
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+1
with all respect to the late Steven P. Jobs, apple had a huge problem with people copying interfaces, and this is more of a Jobs thing.
If you look at the history of the company based in the Jobs biography, it has always had problems with competitors copying them, but seems like this time is the first time that they feel the leverage to pursue legal action.
I for one am seeing this as apple being completely ugly and childish, and it certainly has changed the way that I look at them and their products.
It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.
mustbepbs said:
It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.
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Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.
Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
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Last I checked, the US still has anti-monopoly laws in place. Will it deter their dominance quest? Of course not. What can we do? What we already do: support and run Android! Plus, without apple, these forums would be overrun with idiots asking what the extra physical buttons do and demanding to know why they didn't receive a gingerbread and frozen yogurt sandwich covered in jelly beans and cupcake frosting with their device purchase
Super SGS3, Away!!
SCH-I535.10, Beans custom stock build 6
stevenjcampbell said:
Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.
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I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.
Sccrluk9 said:
I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.
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I think you are right. This will definitely go to appeal. Chances are that Samsung will get whatever judgement suspended until its worked its way through the system. This case is very hotly contested and I can see it making it to the Supreme Court.
blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.
Yeah, this is looking bad.
They don't sue Google because it's Samsung that allegedly infringed on their patents. They copied the form-factor, they copied the icons. The form-factor is less of an issue - I think they will win on that. A flat touchscreen in a square body is basically the only design you could use for a touch-centric OS. But the icons, and that document that came out today, oh God...
It is depressing that in the gigantic tech space, there really is no company besides Apple that has the user-centric design culture to make what is essentially a perfect device for the vast majority of users. They have copied, and will copy, but the difference is Apple is innovative in a way that Samsung and Google simply are not. Google is too geek-and-tech centric to do what Apple does. They love hacking. They love making phones people can hack. They are like us Android fans, they love customizability, and so they don't pay attention to the details that would make Android a perfect OS for mobile devices, because, in their world they WANT people to customize and add their own flair. They want people to be like them. And a lot of us are like that, we love it. I love it. But that's a minority. Most people want an appliance and a perfectly engineered system to play Angry Birds in.
iOS is designed just as a simple vehicle for launching apps for the most part. Android is designed to be a bit more than that. In any case they chose to use the Microsoft strategy of just getting the OS out there instead of making a device that would be a perfect synergy of hardware and software. And Samsung is just a consumer electronics company, making cookie-cutter devices for the most part. They are trying, I'll admit, but it's all half-assed. S-Voice is almost useless, they bring nothing special to Android with TouchWiz, the gestures are nice but really just gimmicky. And if they do come up with something absolutely original, they need to bring the fight to Apple, who will no doubt copy really useful features like voice-activation for the camera. And they probably won't...
There is no chance of monopoly issues as long as Android is as successful as it is. I remain convinced Android's biggest problem is there are simply not enough developers in the world interested in Android. There are numerous technical and economic reasons why Android does not have the apps and the polished apps we deserve. I fear, just as PC software was essentially Microsoft's domain for so many years, the next 15 years will be defined by the mobile space being iOS' domain. There simply isn't the justification for developers to work on Android as much, just as most PC software development was for Windows, not Macs back in the '90s...
I think Samsung will get hard...maybe it will be enough to startle them into innovation, but frankly, Asian companies do not have a great history of it. The last great consumer device to be invented in Asia was Sony's Walkman, and that was 30 years ago.
Face it, we have PCs. But PCs without the appbase. A few of us are enthusiasts, water-cooling and overclocking and have 3 screens. That's the XDA crowd, the hackers, the ROMers, the developers and themers. But the vast majority of Android users are downmarket folks who couldn't afford an iPhone but wanted to check their email and browse the web.
piiman said:
Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.
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I agree. Maybe I'm not seeing the context, but it sure just reads like he's pushing his developers to come up with better products, which is what he should be doing.
I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate
marsonist said:
I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate
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I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.
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kishin14 said:
I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.
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Absolutely fare questions. I own an Android device because I am inherently a tinkerer. I have had every generation of iPhone with a brief lapse in 2009 when the OG Droid was released. (I say brief because I gave it away after three months.) The interface and primary functionality of iPhones is a well worn path. I decided that I'd like something that I can toy with more. The ability to tinker is not a feather in Samsung's cap, however, rather a more fundamental aspect of the Android core.
It is now 2012. Early Android phones left *a lot* to be desired. Newer devices are more stable and have a few neat features that the iPhone doesn't, yet, have. Would these devices have lasted long enough to say "We've got NFC first" if they hadn't spent four years walking in the iPhones footsteps? I don't think so.
It's really a stupid case in my opinion. I mean, yeah, Samung probably took the iPhone as an example when they developed the Galaxy line. So what? Does Apple want Samsung to make phones shaped in a triangle? Beds have looked pretty much the same bar some details but no-one is complaining about copyright infringement. If something makes an impact as big as the iPhone on society, how is it possible not to think of it when developing a phone after it's release?
I hope Apple wins the software side of the argument so then maybe Samsung will stop puking their TW over android and let Google deal with any legal **** that comes about.
I found this rather interesting. A few months ago Google finally closed the deal on its acquisition of Motorola Mobility, replacing the old CEO with its own handpicked successor. Now the company is expediting its plans to consolidate Motorola. In the latest report, the search giant is getting ready to do some major restructuring, which will result in a 20 percent cut (about 4,000 people) of the handset maker’s workforce. This isn’t so much of a surprise as many executives had already hit the exit once the deal was done.
The way this job reduction will playout is Motorola’s operations in Asia and India, as well as its R&D spending in Chicago, Sunnyvale, and Beijing — is getting a drastic cut. Google’s goal is to trim down the fat on such a bloated company; a company that could only turn a profit six months out of the last four years. What makes sense is for Google to stop putting wasted resources into producing lower-end handsets, which is a plan the company intends to carry out. New Motorola boss, Dennis Woodside, told the The New York Times that he’s refocusing the company to concentrate on “a few cellphones instead of dozens.” Again, this isn’t new, we already had an idea that Motorola would refocus and begin to release lesser phones, which is something the old CEO Sanjay Jha uttered earlier this year.
In becoming a much leaner company, Motorola will begin to put more emphasis on things like voice recognition that can determine who is in a room, better cameras, and longer-lasting batteries. All great qualities phone owners love. The NYT report also mentioned how an executive close to situation believed it would be “more difficult” for Google and Motorola to spontaneously collaborate on Android projects.
This irks me, because it makes no sense. Why is it a problem for Google to do its own thing, with its own OS, on its own hardware company? My point is, every single OEM the search giant “partners-up with” has been doing whatever it wants with Android since day one (like throwing crappy skins on top of it). So why would things all of a sudden become “more difficult” with Google’s acquisition of Motorola? OEMs will continue to do whatever they want regardless. What does everyone think of all this?
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Sorry if I'm spamming, just thought you guys would be interested in this also.
Mods, feel free to lock / delete...
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Apex_Strider said:
This irks me, because it makes no sense. Why is it a problem for Google to do its own thing, with its own OS, on its own hardware company? My point is, every single OEM the search giant “partners-up with” has been doing whatever it wants with Android since day one (like throwing crappy skins on top of it). So why would things all of a sudden become “more difficult” with Google’s acquisition of Motorola? OEMs will continue to do whatever they want regardless.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
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This is a problem, because Google designs not only the os, but now the hardware too. This can be considered an unfair monopoly. Google has to tread very lightly in how they handle this whole thing.
If done wrong, they could alienate all the other manufactures out there, and we could start seeing them all go back to things like symbian (yuck!).
Google has to keep Android open for at least another 5 years unless they find a loop hole. By that time their will be another OS come along that will catch everyones attention.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
I was reading this morning how it was harder for Motorola to talk to and work witj the Android team at google now. The perceived unfair advantage is being handled very cautiously by Google. Then minutes later another article said the same thing except it was Motorola limiting access. Everyone is too uptight. Make it freakin' work.
Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2
OMG I Work at Motorola India but I've not come across any such things.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Makes me sad. I have three friends whose parents work for Motorola. I keep bugging them to tell their parents to get ICS on more phones but I think I know more about their parents' jobs than they do themselves
It sucks that they have to cut so many jobs - but a lot of them are in markets where Motorola just flat out doesn't sell anything, so they are completely leaving those markets. Hopefully those people can find jobs quickly (and get nice severance packages), and also hopefully Motorola becomes profitable again very quickly, and their remaining areas get bigger and higher more people.
I'm sure it's much easier to suck with less employees. Now they'll actually have an excuse for it.
Motorola lied and I'm still locked mb865
I totally want Google to dictate to Motorola. A small handful of higher-quality handsets? A slimmer operation?
Come on, Motorola should have done this two or three years ago.
But turning Motorola into, essentially, a Nexus-only producer with some of its traditional branding could quickly make them into the most interesting manufacturer.
Ajfink said:
I totally want Google to dictate to Motorola. A small handful of higher-quality handsets? A slimmer operation?
Come on, Motorola should have done this two or three years ago.
But turning Motorola into, essentially, a Nexus-only producer with some of its traditional branding could quickly make them into the most interesting manufacturer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, go a googling... Google is going to turn moto into a lower cost handset maker, not a top end manufacturer... in other words they don't wanna compete with Samsung and the like.
They (motorola), will not make a nexus only device, as of yet NO nexus has EVER been a motorola device, now the xoom was a "google experience" device, meaning no blur at all.... other than that, you won't see them do a nexus phone, but maybe once or twice if ever... it is rumored that this year moto will make the nexus, but I have heard some rumblings lately that don't sound like that will happen.
jimbridgman said:
LOL, go a googling... Google is going to turn moto into a lower cost handset maker, not a top end manufacturer... in other words they don't wanna compete with Samsung and the like.
They (motorola), will not make a nexus only device, as of yet NO nexus has EVER been a motorola device, now the xoom was a "google experience" device, meaning no blur at all.... other than that, you won't see them do a nexus phone, but maybe once or twice if ever... it is rumored that this year moto will make the nexus, but I have heard some rumblings lately that don't sound like that will happen.
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Click to collapse
Google is trying to paint the picture that they have nothing to do with Motorola and that its own separate division because they don't want the other OEM's getting mad at them. They are also saying that Motorola will have to bid for the Nexus program like everybody else... no favoritism! We'll see true thats going to be! Personally I want to see Google get more involved in Motorola, but I don't want them to stop building high end devices... this is the reason I buy Motorola because the hardware is reliable!
This is all similar to the backlash Microsoft has been getting for deciding to building the "Surface" and go into the hardware market. OEM's are mad at them now for this!
big ach said:
This is all similar to the backlash Microsoft has been getting for deciding to building the "Surface" and go into the hardware market. OEM's are mad at them now for this!
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Click to collapse
This is exactly what i was going to say!
We are also forgetting the 'other' reason why el goog bought Moto, patents! I really believe the patents thing is true.. as far as Moto not manufacturing top end devices, i dont believe that, but i do believe they will be limited. They wont release a new mobile every now and then instead may be one top dog for each carrier in the year and two for the international market.
In big mobile markets like India. Moto is struggling, their service here is so infamous and the availability of moto products is also an issue here, where there is NO carrier branding moto has to depend on distribution chains and retailers, and they arent doing well in that dept.
Bottom line is Moto will be different from now onwards, these pink slips are just beginning. There are going to be changes, but not drastic IMHO.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
jimbridgman said:
LOL, go a googling... Google is going to turn moto into a lower cost handset maker, not a top end manufacturer... in other words they don't wanna compete with Samsung and the like.
They (motorola), will not make a nexus only device, as of yet NO nexus has EVER been a motorola device, now the xoom was a "google experience" device, meaning no blur at all.... other than that, you won't see them do a nexus phone, but maybe once or twice if ever... it is rumored that this year moto will make the nexus, but I have heard some rumblings lately that don't sound like that will happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right - none yet. I'm just -wishing- that Google would take a more prominent role, at least in the direction of making Motorola play in a more Google way (not that Google is always that open themselves).
I can understand Google not wanting to show favoritism, and if for no other reason I'd be fine with official Nexus devices going to Samsung, HTC, et al., but it would be nice if ALL Motorola devices had that "Google experience."
Its confirmed that Motorola India R&D Centre of Bangalore is yet to make an official statement by coming days and it's also been said that It'll lay off a few employees.
Motorola R&D Bangalore,India.
Sent from my MB865
If the purchase was only (even mostly) for the patents Moto has, which will probably help defending some features of Android (against Apple), then this move is of no surprise. I hope the affected people are compensated well and also hope many of them start new startups in mobile space with that cushion.
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
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If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
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Click to collapse
If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
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Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
Click to expand...
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Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
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I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.
"A little off topic but I was thinking recently why Samsung and LG are doing well and not Sony, HTC etc. Are people not a fan of a simplistic experience on Android? Because the best sellers in the Android Community always come with a host of features and what some reviewers call "gimmicks" but to the average consumer, they see it has getting the most out of what you paid for like buying a car with a lot features as standard even though you do not use them all. I think that when general consumers think of simplicity, they think iPhone and when they see an Android phone trying to do the same, they think it won't be a good job as the iPhone is a simplistic as it gets. I don't know. This makes more sense to me that HTC and Sony should enhance their user experience if they want to compete with Samsung and LG because i think we in a day and age were showing cool features, tech and toys to other people is just part of normal living. For example, my mom just got the iPhone 6 and when I showed her my Note 4 features, she said she wants to go back to Samsung because she's wondering, why is your phone cheaper when it offers so much more. She's not sold by the glamor of Apple so this could be a reason why she thinks this way. Sorry for the long text lol." - A comment i posted on the PocketNow site.
Sent from my SM-N910C
that`s not truth at all
My rant is this:
Android is terrible for the bloated UI's that come by default on the phones. If they just kept them stock, things would be fine but the OEMs are screwing this up for people. LG has a very nice GUI on their phones. Samsung's is lame but I've heard it's getting better. For me, going back to stock just makes the performance and experience much much better. People are lazy and iPhone's "just work". They won't say the same for Android phones. They hear Android and think fragmentation or else they hear the word "root" and go "huh?" User levels make the fruit phone such a popular device whereas more technically savvy people will chose Android.
To each, his own.