[Q] Portable Wi-Fi Hotspot won't start, JB 4.1.2 - Galaxy Tab 2 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

I recently upgraded my Galaxy Tab2 from Android ICS 4.0.4 to JB 4.1.2.
I previously used Müller's WiFi Tether for Root Users (my device is CF-Auto-Root'ed); it was great.
Now after the 4.1.2 upgrade WiFi Tether for Root Users doesn't work anymore - it just never appears on other computers' list of visible Wi-Fi networks.
So I'm trying the built-in Portable Wi-Fi Hotspot function. I tap to turn it on; it says it has turned on .. then just a few seconds later it says "Turning off" and indeed it turns off. Can't use it.
How can I diagnose and fix this?
thanks,

Are you on the stock ROM?
Posted from my Fascinate using XDA Premium

MultipleMonomials said:
Are you on the stock ROM?
Posted from my Fascinate using XDA Premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi MultipleMonomials. Yes, the stock 4.1.2 ROM which came out last week, plus CF-Auto-Root.
Another piece of information. I also cannot start USB Tethering. I tap to start, it says it's starting, and it instantly turns off, briefly showing "USB Tethering Error" in the top status bar.
thanks,

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but since when did the stock ROM have wifi tethering?
Try the app foxfi from Play Store.
Posted from my Fascinate using XDA Premium

MultipleMonomials said:
Maybe I'm just ignorant, but since when did the stock ROM have wifi tethering?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I can tell, Android 4.1 comes with USB and Wi-Fi tethering by default.
Settings, in the Wireless and networks area, More settings, "Tethering and portable hotspot".
Of course, some carriers disable it, but my device is carrier-neutral, pure stock ROM. Unless there is a flag the carriers can send to the phone saying to specifically disable that function? .. in which case I dearly hope that there is a hack or app for rooted phones to ignore that flag!
(I did try FoxFi, and several others; on this version of Android, all they seem to do is enable the built-in portable hotspot, which behaves just the same as when I do it manually in the Settings - it turns right off again).
anyone?
Thanks!

Either install or open Titanium Backup. Search for "tethering" and "hotspot". Do you get anything?
Posted from my Fascinate using XDA Premium

Got it to work with WiFi Tether for Root Users, 3.3pre-2 TrevE mod experimental
MultipleMonomials said:
Either install or open Titanium Backup. Search for "tethering" and "hotspot". Do you get anything?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, Titanium Backup (love it!) does not find any apps/apks for "tethering" or "hotspot".
There's a comment here suggesting that it's built-in, not an .apk.
Aha. I installed the 3.3pre-2 "TrevE" mod experimental version, and with a lot of playing around, found the following combination which works:
Device Profile: generic ICS/JB (wlan0)
Setup Method: Auto
Send Netd Max Client Cmd: On
WiFi-driver reload: On
WiFi-driver reload 2: On
(Not positive that the driver reloads are necessary, but without doubt the TrevE mod was required).
Maybe this experience will help explain what's going on, so that we can get easier solutions for others.
thanks,

Related

[Q] Wifi tethering for root users

Able to wifi tether to apple devices, but no luck with laptops or android devices. " does support ad hoc network" What wifi tether programs are others using? Thanks
wifi tether works. i used it this past weekend for 2 days.
if youre already rooted, you can just use native tethering. just delete tethermanager from /system/app no need for barnacle of wifi tether for root.
The Jack of Clubs said:
if youre already rooted, you can just use native tethering. just delete tethermanager from /system/app no need for barnacle of wifi tether for root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this mean? I downloaded wifi tether and then uninstalled it, but would like to be able to tether my tablet when we are on vacation. I am rooted.
android has the ability to tether out of the box.
carriers disable that and charge like $20 extra if you wanna be able to tether.
if you use titanium backup and freeze tethermanager.apk (or whatever it is called) you get the ability to wifi tether again without messing with any other third party apps.
look for it in /system/app and once you freeze it delete it or whatever you want to do with it, go to settings > wireless and network > mobile ap. if tether manager is gone you are able to use this native mode already on your phone to tether all you like. i would steer clear of apps like pdanet and tether for root, as usage of these apps appears to be sent back to att by tethermanager.
Is the built in tethering part of AT&Ts "bloatware"? I may have deleted it using Titanium Backup.
Is there a way to get it back?
Thanks in advance.
Thx it worked for me . I installed busy box as root user , then installed titaniumbackup . i went to backup restore tab. Froze tether manager then uninstalled tether manager and it works flawlessly now . Thx forums
Samsung infuse 4G
Yes!
It's these kinds threads that make me want to buy you guys a beer! As a new android user, I know very little, but when I ignore the haters/trolls/ignorant people, and smart asses, I find gems like this. To think I almost paid for it because of the salesman insisting that tethering through AT&T was the ONLY way. Thanks a bunch to all you guys who give back.
Thanks! Worked like charm. AT&T go kick rocks!
Mobile AP warning message
I am running Infused 1.5 on my phone. So from what I am reading in several tethering threads, I am able to use the native app for tethering. When I use MobileAP, the original warning message is still there "A Tethering/Mobile Hotspot plan is required...."
Sorry if this is a noob question, but is this message not supposed to be there anymore? or did I do something wrong?
yes you should not be getting that message. check to see if tethermanager is still in /system/app.
sobeast101 said:
I am running Infused 1.5 on my phone. So from what I am reading in several tethering threads, I am able to use the native app for tethering. When I use MobileAP, the original warning message is still there "A Tethering/Mobile Hotspot plan is required...."
Sorry if this is a noob question, but is this message not supposed to be there anymore? or did I do something wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just about to post a similar question Im also on infused 1.5 and just tried the tethering, the message your talking about is the one at the top of the screen that doesn't go away that says "Tethering/Mobile hotspot plan is required to use this service. Please ect...." the one I was getting before I installed. The infused 1.5 I would click on the mobile AP box to turn on the tethering and a message saying I didn't have the service would pop up and turn off the tethering but that doesn't happen anymore I also just checked my plan features and tethering does not show up. I remember reading one of the features of the infused 1.5 was tethering but I didn't know how it worked until I read this thread. Thank you guys
But if I'm running Infused, why woukd that file still exist?
So you think I would be ok ignoring the message?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA Premium App
The Jack of Clubs said:
look for it in /system/app and once you freeze it delete it or whatever you want to do with it, go to settings > wireless and network > mobile ap. if tether manager is gone you are able to use this native mode already on your phone to tether all you like. i would steer clear of apps like pdanet and tether for root, as usage of these apps appears to be sent back to att by tethermanager.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And about the message, if its the one that is on the top of the screen and not the one that pops up when u turn on the tethering I would ignore it.
T
not sure if am doing this right ,,,
but I did manage to FREEZE " the Therering manager via Tit'um
and yet I cannt connect to ATT @ their hot spots
what else do I need ?
thanks in advance
Hot spots? Isn't this ment for connecting your phone to your labtop/computer to share your phone's internet?
lalojamesliz said:
Hot spots? Isn't this ment for connecting your phone to your labtop/computer to share your phone's internet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, also called wifi tethering or mobile access point. You can enable this in wireless settings if you pay extra for a tethering plan or remove tether manager.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
The Jack of Clubs said:
Yes, also called wifi tethering or mobile access point. You can enable this in wireless settings if you pay extra for a tethering plan or remove tether manager.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay wait, so just freezing tethermanager wont work. I'd have to uninstall it to tether? I'm running stock rooted btw
i still dont know what freezing means, but it doesnt sound very guaranteed. tethermanager is malicious at best so i just completely delete it, theres no advantage to keeping it around.

What am I doing wrong? Wifi tether issues

OK so I started over and am running CFW humblecomb 4.0. I flashed using Odin and running 2.6.35.7-EP1. I still cannot get any wifi tether to work. I downloaded Open Garden and Barnacle tether and neither work I get these errors.
NAT: Could not set MTU or pdpbr1:Invalid argument
WIFI: Could not set ad-hoc mode of eth0: Invalid argument
WIFI: Could not set ssid of eth0: Invalid argument
I also downloaded and installed WiFi Tether v3.1 beta 11, 10, 9, 8 and 7 and it works once and then I get setting ad-hoc mode failed and setting channel failed. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
I would recommend ditching that ROM and flashing one based on the OTA or stock itself. Also wifi tether pre 12 works the best for the charge.
Sent from my pocket-sized, Linux-based computer using electromagnetic radiation.
How would I find out which would work
OK so installing another wifi tether release, I'm on 8 at the moment, I get Configuring softap failed
Starting softap failed
Activating WiFi Interface failed.
I have changed the setup method to softap for Samsung(master) and reinstalled binaries/configs. I even changed the device profile to Samsung Captivate as another thread suggested.
Anyone help?
im in a similar but different boat. Running infinity (see sig) and wifi tether 3.1 beta 10 works to tether my tab to, but once I turn the tether off it completely disables my wifi: I can't tether again, connect to wifi, even turn ON wifi until I reboot. WTH.
mtmerrick said:
im in a similar but different boat. Running infinity (see sig) and wifi tether 3.1 beta 10 works to tether my tab to, but once I turn the tether off it completely disables my wifi: I can't tether again, connect to wifi, even turn ON wifi until I reboot. WTH.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use pre 12 not a beta
Sent from my pocket-sized, Linux-based computer using electromagnetic radiation.
mtmerrick said:
im in a similar but different boat. Running infinity (see sig) and wifi tether 3.1 beta 10 works to tether my tab to, but once I turn the tether off it completely disables my wifi: I can't tether again, connect to wifi, even turn ON wifi until I reboot. WTH.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Common problem with the beta. Like everyone else says, use the pre 12
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
I dont see pre 12. Will pre 13 work?
This one is the best and should work for everyone.(pre 12 ver3_0). copy to your SDcard, then use appinstall to install. Once done, open the app and in profile setting select Samsung Fascinate, in setup-method select softap for Samsung(master).
yay it works! huge thanks.
buhohitr said:
This one is the best and should work for everyone.(pre 12 ver3_0). copy to your SDcard, then use appinstall to install. Once done, open the app and in profile setting select Samsung Fascinate, in setup-method select softap for Samsung(master).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just as a FYI, running this app caused my phone to reboot every-time I tried to run it, I am running:
[EP4D] Gingerbread 2.3.6 W/Root/CWR/IMO Kernel 4.0
has anyone else with EPD4 run into this?
Mine is working now too!! THANKS
andy_fr said:
Just as a FYI, running this app caused my phone to reboot every-time I tried to run it, I am running:
[EP4D] Gingerbread 2.3.6 W/Root/CWR/IMO Kernel 4.0
has anyone else with EPD4 run into this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Issue I seen with reboot are, battery saving apps and apps that always on, they may step over the wifi tet. process. You can check this rom+kernel out. This is the best support rom+kernel for droid charge at the moment. Once you on, you never turn back. Humble,infinity and Gummy are on the way to retirement. The rom itself performce very well even without V6 and Overclock etc.. It's very stable, smooth and fast. Wifi tet should work flawless on this rom.
Make sure you disable LAGFIX EXT4 before you Odin this. Very important.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1406951
Report back if you have tried and like it or not.
xconcepts said:
OK so I started over and am running CFW humblecomb 4.0. I flashed using Odin and running 2.6.35.7-EP1. I still cannot get any wifi tether to work. I downloaded Open Garden and Barnacle tether and neither work I get these errors.
NAT: Could not set MTU or pdpbr1:Invalid argument
WIFI: Could not set ad-hoc mode of eth0: Invalid argument
WIFI: Could not set ssid of eth0: Invalid argument
I also downloaded and installed WiFi Tether v3.1 beta 11, 10, 9, 8 and 7 and it works once and then I get setting ad-hoc mode failed and setting channel failed. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the given advise; ditch the ROM and get InfinityROM/TweakStock/or just Stock-rooted Odin, and then just google this:
"google wifi tether" the first option is usually the open-source project which always works well.
Same here! I have been struggling with that for a week.
andrewjt19 said:
I agree with the given advise; ditch the ROM and get InfinityROM/TweakStock/or just Stock-rooted Odin, and then just google this:
"google wifi tether" the first option is usually the open-source project which always works well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been posting in another thread, but does anyone have a problem where their wifi tethered connection just keeps becoming disabled? At first it seemed to happen whenever the phone screen went black and the phone was on standby. All I had to do was turn the screen on and I could browse the internet and upload at full speed again.
I tried disabling and/or enabling the wakelock option, but that did nothing. Then I downloaded an all-black screensaver, disabled screen timeout, and left the phone completely on. But the stupid connection still keeps dropping after a few minutes. I discovered that all I have to do is *move the phone* to reestablish the connection. Somehow the proximity sensor's activation causes the program to "wake up" or something.
Has anyone else had these issues or know of a solution?

NS4G: Tether on stock ICS rom without hotspot monthly charge?

Yes I am a newby. Yes I have searched and didn't really find what I was after.
I unlocked my phone a bit back and did the leaked IMM26. Since then Sprint has updated it again to 4.0.4. I now have an Asus Transformer Prime with ICS and would like to use WiFi or BT tether on my NS4G. Is there a way to do it without going the route of loading up a custom ROM?
Thanks in advance for your time and assistance.
Cheers
Wifi tether
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
I have tried wifi teather. The tether function itself works beautifully in ICS. The Prime gets its IP address fine but there is no data connection. If I open the web browser on the Prime it states there is no connection. So either I am doing something wrong or its still locked out by Sprint in ICS. Help or clarification is appreciated either way.
I have also tried the "1-Click WiFi Tether No Root" app from the market and it does not work either. The problem statement is if I tether with the native ICS or with this app or others in the market then I lose data connection on the NS4G and obviously dont get it on the tethered device (Asus PRIME in this case).
After a considerable amount of reading I decided to just root the phone and install ClockworkMod and vhgomez36 ICS 4.0.4 ROM. Why? What I discovered is that even rooted there appears to not be an app or way to Tether when using a stock Sprint ROM. They disable it and check your account settings at launch to see if you have "Wifi Hotspot" enabled. If you do not then they disable data on the phone.
Works great now on vhgomez ROM with stock ICS tether app.
Case closed.

how to enable Mobile hotspot / AP feature on ICS leak aka disable the entitlement chk

On the ICS leak, it still has the entitlement check for hotspot feature
Normally, you would freeze or delete the tethering manager apk in titanium, or use MYSQLite app to disable the entitlement check in the settings apk...but neither of those things are present in the ICS leak
Anybody know how to do this?
You got me excited for a moment. It looked like a how to guide.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
iandr0idos said:
You got me excited for a moment. It looked like a how to guide.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, yes it sort of does. Sorry.
This should be easy, probably just a change in the filename for the manager apk
I tried freezing the wifi sharing manager and the TetheringProvision, but it either crashed the settings apk or didnt have an effect.
Foxfi?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-4
I got the hotspot working by installing the 14 Toggle Quick Panel mod and then enabling/disabling using the Wifi Hotspot toggle. Flashed the zip here http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...3&postcount=82 in CWM.
whitesox311 said:
On the ICS leak, it still has the entitlement check for hotspot feature
Normally, you would freeze or delete the tethering manager apk in titanium, or use MYSQLite app to disable the entitlement check in the settings apk...but neither of those things are present in the ICS leak
Anybody know how to do this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is still an apk present in the /system/app folder called tetheringmanager.apk, saw it when I was deodexing, maybe it just has a new name.
Nevermind, freezing it doesn't help the situation.
promiseofcake said:
There is still an apk present in the /system/app folder called tetheringmanager.apk, saw it when I was deodexing, maybe it just has a new name.
Nevermind, freezing it doesn't help the situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hrm, strange....usually titanium picks up on this kind of thing.
I'm going to try the 14 panel someone suggested.
It seems to me that where before it used tetheringmanager.apk to check for the lack of provision if it was NOT available, something in the framework is now saying its not available unless tethering manager says so.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-4
mobile hotspot worked for me
In the UltraCfg app i tried setting it to Tethering Always ON. It asked for a restart for the change to take effect, but it locked up my phone. After pulling the battery and starting up the phone i tried to turn on the mobile hotspot. While it was trying to verify the tethering plan the blue hot spot symbol came on, so i just hit cancel. I was able to connect a device with no problems. USB tethering worked the same way, just cancel when it tried to do its verification. I'm currently tethering right now.
andgo23 said:
In the UltraCfg app i tried setting it to Tethering Always ON. It asked for a restart for the change to take effect, but it locked up my phone. After pulling the battery and starting up the phone i tried to turn on the mobile hotspot. While it was trying to verify the tethering plan the blue hot spot symbol came on, so i just hit cancel. I was able to connect a device with no problems. USB tethering worked the same way, just cancel when it tried to do its verification. I'm currently tethering right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to hit cancel. Just hit home. This absolutely works. I got wifi tethering for root users working too, but I like working with stock features.
Follow this guide, bottom of page 3. Even though UltraCfg already appears to have set tethering always on, you need to set it again. Reboot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1566037

Photon Q 4G LTE, USB/WiFi Tether, Anyone?

So the unlocking of the boot loader was simple with Motorola's instructions on their website. Now all I need to figure out how to do is fix the USB tethering so it simply works...
Anyone know how to do this yet? I know there are programs that you can install/use but I don't want to use those.
Not sure if it has the option to do that out of box or not but if it does and its not working, I remember someone saying it is picky with what USB cable you use.
Or by programs you mean not installing programs on the PC? and not by apps?
I know it doesn't out of the box. Just trying to find a fix for it.
Sent from my XT897 using xda app-developers app
It is hard to say as it varies per phone, try going to google play and searching for usb tether and try a few. If none work, in WORST case you can make a Proxy on your phone and then route your internet through the proxy on your browser. Though any reason why Wifi/Bluetooth is not an option?
Tried some of the apps on the market, none are working. PdaNet won't even install. Usb is preferred, wifi or bluetooth would be fine for now. How do you setup the proxy? Ive never done that on a phone yet.
Sent from my XT897 using xda app-developers app
wolfie359 said:
Tried some of the apps on the market, none are working. PdaNet won't even install. Usb is preferred, wifi or bluetooth would be fine for now. How do you setup the proxy? Ive never done that on a phone yet.
Sent from my XT897 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If wifi/bluetooth is an option try FoxFi. If that doesn't work,ill instruct you how to do the proxy thing.
Tried FoxFi and it says its not supported by my carrier (sprint) so it doesnt let me install. Same thing with pdanet
Sent from my XT897 using xda app-developers app
wolfie359 said:
Tried FoxFi and it says its not supported by my carrier (sprint) so it doesnt let me install. Same thing with pdanet
Sent from my XT897 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you mean doesn't let you install from sprint market? or doesn't work when you open it? you can download the apk directly on the developers site or download it on Amazon appstore.
App market doesn't allow the download. I'm going to try to find the apk for pdanet, i do have the license for the full version of that. All that i have been able to download just haven't worked. Ill let ya know what i can figure out.
Sent from my XT897 using xda app-developers app
App market doesn't allow the download. I'm going to try to find the apk for pdanet, i do have the license for the full version of that. All that i have been able to download just haven't worked. Ill let ya know what i can figure out.
Sent from my XT897 using xda app-developers app
Okay... i got PDA Net working. Had to download the apk elsewhere other than the market where its not allowed. That allows usb, bt, and wifi. I guess this will work for now until some devs get some fixes out for the new photon Can't be driving around the country without internet for my laptop...
Sent from my XT897 using xda app-developers app
This is why I just use Amazon Appstore, no silly carrier locking. And it keeps the locked apps updated.
> I'm going to try to find the apk for pdanet,
> ... I'll let ya know what i can figure out.
Any results yet? I'll buy this phone or not depending on whether PdaNet can work.
BTW how is its reception in low signal areas,
and does its GPS work reasonably well?
I'm looking to replace a 2yo Samsung Epic 4g whose
GPS dies within 10min, it often loses Sprint carrier
but can tether
Ben
benreaves said:
> I'm going to try to find the apk for pdanet,
> ... I'll let ya know what i can figure out.
Any results yet? I'll buy this phone or not depending on whether PdaNet can work.
BTW how is its reception in low signal areas,
and does its GPS work reasonably well?
I'm looking to replace a 2yo Samsung Epic 4g whose
GPS dies within 10min, it often loses Sprint carrier
but can tether
Ben
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just went from my Epic 4G... The Photon Q has a lot better signal strength than the Epic. PdaNet is working great. I downloaded it from here: http://www.apkfullapps.com/2012/03/pdanet-pro-v350-apk-app.html I selected rapid gator, it comes as p350.zip and contains the apk for the phone, and both 32 & 64 bit versions of the computer app needed.
You will need to buy a license for it to be able to visit https sites. Here is their site:
http://junefabrics.com
The GPS seems to be working great. I've had no issues with it yet so far. Always seems to be accurate, and fast at getting the original location. I'm hoping that soon enough I won't have to use PdaNet to tether anymore now that motorola released the kernal source. That makes it a lot easier for our devs to get new roms and fixes out for it
after rooting with shabby's cwm, I tried Wi-Fi tether, but I couldn't connect to the hotspot. I opened an issue with the Google project
Sent from my CM9 Epic 4g Touch using Forum Runner
My USB tethering works right out of the box. I just hooked it up to my PC, let the included Motorola software install the relevant drivers and turned on the option in the settings. Bam, had my desktop online. It takes it a few moments to connect and sometimes you have to play with the setting or unplug it/plug it back in etc. before it works. I sometimes get a message that my plan may not support tethering, but that always goes away if I just poke at the setting a couple more times. Patience seems to be the key. Sometimes it takes a little while for the network to be identified by Win7-64, which is what I am using.
I'll try WiFi hotspot later and see if my bridge can connect to it ...
Infrastructure Wifi Tether
I have found that with my Photon Q, after I unlocked it and rooted, I downloaded the newest "Wifi Tether For Root Users" off the Play Store and out of the box it worked.....as ad-hoc....I have found that if you go into the settings of Wifi Tether and hit "Change Device-Profile" and choose "Generic ICS/JB (wlan0)" then choose "Change Setup-Method" and hit "Netd (master)" then setup the Wifi Tether to your liking it will work without a problem on infrastructure.
zrmxp95 said:
I have found that with my Photon Q, after I unlocked it and rooted, I downloaded the newest "Wifi Tether For Room Users" off the Play Store and out of the box it worked.....as ad-hoc....I have found that if you go into the settings of Wifi Tether and hit "Change Device-Profile" and choose "Generic ICS/JB (wlan0)" then choose "Change Setup-Method" and hit "Netd (master)" then setup the Wifi Tether to your liking it will work without a problem on infrastructure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This worked perfectly for me. For convenience, the link to the correct app is:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.googlecode.android.wifi.tether
nightwkr said:
This worked perfectly for me. For convenience, the link to the correct app is:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.googlecode.android.wifi.tether
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link! Got it up and working and was able to verify that I can connect to work and run apps from Citrix while talking on the phone, SVDO for the win! Now I'm ready for the next time I lose cable at home and I need to work.
Installed the Wifi Tether and installed using zrmxp95's directions. I can connect to the network with my ipad, however the phone only only recieves about 4kb of data and then the webpage never loads. I can hit refresh on the ipad, and it will load another 4kb and do the same thing.

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