Hello all
I am the owner of the Nexus 7 and i'm thinking to get the Microsoft Surface RT. I heard it was a lot laggy but these sources last from November 2012 and I guess Microsoft had the time to update and fix a lot of bugs.
So, how is as today the Microsoft Surface RT? Still laggy? Are there case where it always lags? Are games running smooth? Is Microsoft Office running smooth by now? Is the slow typing issue fixed? I want to know everything
Comparing to a Nexus 7, which will I find smoother? Which will I find best for games?
PS: I don't really play games but it tells more about specs
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
For the most part it is fixed. You may get lag in PowerPoint and ink in word. Other than that... Smooth.
Sent from my Evo V 4G using XDA Premium HD app
mines fine, but I am having a replacement.... (all cosmetic damage)
Performance; fast, no lag, smooth gaming(what ever games you can find)
Design; the magnesium case makes the surface amazing to the touch, it feels solid yet light.
it gives you confidence for when you drop it. Kickstand is brilliant (mine is still attached)
All The Good Stuff;
the surface has expandable memory(supports up to 64GB Class 10 SD)
battery life is acceptable(about 8 hours give or take - depending on what your doing)
kickstand (not adjustable)
type cover (I've had a few problems with this, but all have been replaced for free)
Not All Good;
speakers (but they can be made louder in settings)
crappy app selection (a few xbox games)
standard screen
heavy ( a little heavier than ipad)
glitches in the OS
type cover is hard to use
Hope I helped a little, things maybe added to the list!
I haven't found lag to be a problem in general when running native apps (emulated x86 is a different story, although even there most apps that work at all work pretty well). Both tablets use the same CPU/GPU and have the same RAM, so performance of the hardware is nearly a wash (the Surface RT has marginally higher resolution than the Nexus 7, which will probably have a trivial impact). Games that I've played on it run smoothly, if not necessarily at *very* high framerates. I can't compare it to the Nexus 7 as I haven't spent enough time using one, but performance is not a problem for me either gaming or browsing the web. The email client used to be laggy as hell; that's now much better. I've actually done a non-trivial Powerpoint deck on the Surface RT, and had no noteworthy problems with lag there either (scrolling was just a little stutter if I went fast, but that happens even on my work PC) although my slides weren't terribly complex.
The biggest differences, specs-wise, between the two tablets are that the N7 has GPS, NFC, and optional cellular data, but comes at 16 or 32 GB of non-expandable storage, while the Surface RT has a rear-facing camera as well as the front-facing one, 32 or 64GB of internal storage, and a microSD slot. The Surface RT also has a standard USB host port, which makes it easy to add additional storage or connect other types of devices like gamepads, cellular dongles, and even phones or other tablets (although no, it cannot run ADB).
EDIT: I'm wrong, the Nexus 7 has only 1GB of RAM, which is half as much as the Surface RT. Surface should support heavy apps and multitasking far better than N7.
Thanks for all those comments if other people have some stuffs to add I'm willing to hear them
What do you guys mean by OS Glitch?
Also, is the tablet scratch proof? (screen and back)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
The Surface line is *extremely* durable. The chassis has been shown to survive everything from being used as a skateboard (at one of the announcement presentations) to flying off a car roof on the freeway (albeit with some denting); search and you'll find these incidents. It's intended to withstand multiple drops onto concrete from "person height" of like 3.5' or so (mid-torso-ish; I should ask my friend who works in that department again). I've personally stepped on mine by accident (lying on carpet, though) with no damage at all. The screen is Corning Gorilla Glass 2, which is extremely scratch resistant, and with the metal chassis protecting the edges, it's also very shatter-resistant. In other words, it's as close to "scratch proof" as any real-world consumer object is going to be. It is technically possible to break the kickstand, but the demo video I saw required putting a large part of a grown man's weight on the top edge of the tablet (with kickstand open) before the hinges gave.
Also, in case you didn't see above, I screwed up on the spec comparison in my previous post. The Surface RT has 2GB of RAM, twice as much as the N7. Windows RT will probably have a larger base memory footprint than Android, but the difference should still allow for a lot more multitasking and also for larger programs or data sets (I've loaded really huge Excel spreadsheets with no problem, and regularly have dozens of browser tabs open, for example).
Thanks you Just watched a lot of videos on destructions test and performance So far so great
Now isn't a great time to buy hardware, since this is the tail end for last year's hardware cycle. Models, especially RT ones, are hitting clearance. There's the Dell XPS 10 RT (posted in Windows RT forum) for $250 if you want to jump. No firsthand knowledge, but the XPS 10's Snapdragon S4 is faster than the Surface's Tegra 3.
Edit: Looks like the Dell XPS 10 deal is dead. Please ignore.
jamesst20 said:
Thanks for all those comments if other people have some stuffs to add I'm willing to hear them
What do you guys mean by OS Glitch?
Also, is the tablet scratch proof? (screen and back)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
My Screen has had no scratches so far.... And for the back of the device, well that has had a few scratches, I think they are from my keys and loose change.
e.mote said:
Now isn't a great time to buy hardware, since this is the tail end for last year's hardware cycle. Models, especially RT ones, are hitting clearance. There's the Dell XPS 10 RT (posted in Windows RT forum) for $250 if you want to jump. No firsthand knowledge, but the XPS 10's Snapdragon S4 is faster than the Surface's Tegra 3.
Edit: Looks like the Dell XPS 10 deal is dead. Please ignore.
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Click to collapse
What do you mean? I don't think the Microsoft Surface RT 2 will be out before end of 2013 or maybe start of 2014 :$ and rumors says it will be smaller
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Gorilla glass has a very high hardness rating, in general in order for an object to get a scratch the object scratching it has to have a higher hardness rating (no innuendo intended).
There are few common items with a higher hardness than gorilla glass. Some precious gems like diamond and sapphire (by extension ruby) will easily do it, so basically don't try scratching a wedding ring (if you happen to be married and using a diamond ring if course) against your screen. A few rare alloys can do it. Gorilla glass shards are of course the same hardness as gorilla glass so can also damage the screen. Sand (both builders and beach) is also capable of scratching the screen. That's about it. If you really tried you could do it with a material softer than gorilla glass but chances are by that point your not scratching the screen but plain shattering it (which is one thing, gorilla glass is damned scratch resistant and pretty tough but still possible to shatter)
>What do you mean?
My dad did fortune-telling as a hobby, mostly for friends and acquaintances. He did palm-reading, and had all these complicated astrological charts. One thing I've learned from him is that people don't want to hear the truth (inasmuch as "truth" can be divined) if it's bad news; they only want good news. Fortune telling isn't about reading people's fate as much as reading people.
Likewise, people asking for opinions from existing owners aren't looking for advice as much as affirmation, because the natural tendency for owners is bias toward their already-made choice. It's called the confirmation bias.
>I want to know everything.
You won't know much by asking questions with only one answer. Do the work and start reading. Windows RT and Surface RT have been covered ad nauseam on tech sites, including this forum.
But that's not what you want to hear, so I'll oblige: I think the Surface RT is perfect for you. Buy now. Don't wait. There's always something better down the line, and you can keep waiting forever.
e.mote said:
>What do you mean?
My dad did fortune-telling as a hobby, mostly for friends and acquaintances. He did palm-reading, and had all these complicated astrological charts. One thing I've learned from him is that people don't want to hear the truth (inasmuch as "truth" can be divined) if it's bad news; they only want good news. Fortune telling isn't about reading people's fate as much as reading people.
Likewise, people asking for opinions from existing owners aren't looking for advice as much as affirmation, because the natural tendency for owners is bias toward their already-made choice. It's called the confirmation bias.
>I want to know everything.
You won't know much by asking questions with only one answer. Do the work and start reading. Windows RT and Surface RT have been covered ad nauseam on tech sites, including this forum.
But that's not what you want to hear, so I'll oblige: I think the Surface RT is perfect for you. Buy now. Don't wait. There's always something better down the line, and you can keep waiting forever.
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Don't worry I did read a lot
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
By the way, I forgot to give some news here!
Ar first I bought the Microsoft Surface RT. I really realky enjoyed it! The only thing I didn't like from it was a few missing apps (such as Facebook) and maybe a missing Microsoft Visual Studio. I really wished I could do some programming on it So yeah after a week I returned it.
I then bought the Surface Pro wich I liked way more. Faster and I could use my Windows Programs I didn't like the fact the Pro version couldn't receive notifications in sleep mode, that really disapointed me. Also, it was impossible to set alarm since in sleep mode it wouldn't ring.
I had to sell it about 3 months later because I needed money to afford my school books and stuff but really, I really liked that tablet.
Envoyé depuis mon Nexus 4 avec Tapatalk
Related
After purchasing 2 defective Nexus 7, I've decided to seek for an alternative tablet..
How does the TF700 compare?
Pricing is not a concern for me .
See Lisa's review comparison.
Kinda apples to oranges isn't it? Entry level budget minded device versus high end loaded device? Don't get me wrong, I like the nexus, but they would need a 10" for me to even bother looking their way. I already have a couple nook colors. BUUUT...how do they compare, well lets try...
TF700 = Bigger better screen
TF700 = graphics
TF700 = brightness (super IPS is nice)
Nexus = From google OTAs
Nexus = Lighter
Nexus = Handier as a casual every day "assistant" type device that still is great for movies and games.
Overall it depends on what your looking for really. Quite a difference in price.
**Disclaimer: I don't own a Nexus, just taking a guess at most of the things I listed**
i dont think there is much of a comparison.
Currently, I own both devices. While I agree they are apples vs oranges (lower end to higher end), I can perhaps share some insight. Let me start by saying getting either device is a win. What we have here is 2 quality tablets utilizing the android OS. The Nexus 7 is more of a convenience device. What I mean by this is the portability, weight, and smoothness are unprecedented. I love walking to the coffee table, picking the 7 up, checking my twitter feed, checking the score of the game, etc... One of the other things I enjoy (despite the lower resolution than the TF700), is e-reading. The lack of stress on my wrists makes it an absolute pleasure to read. I can lay on my back, and hold the tablet above my face with one hand, and have no fear of dropping it. There's a lot of little uses I find the 7 brilliant for. My hang up is the idea of a 7" tablet. It's not big enough, but it's not small enough to use with 2 hands making is slightly awkward for some users.
The Infinity is more of a laptop replacement (especially if you get the keyboard dock). I went with the 64gb version, with a 64gb micro SD card. I have not touched my laptop since. If you are looking for a daily web browser, this is your guy. I never have to zoom in to read, the text is crisp/clear, and I don't find myself straining to view websites. That's another advantage of the 10" tablet over the 7". The screen noticeably trumps the Nexus 7, and sometimes it pains me to switch between the two. Although i'm a big fan of Google and Nexus devices I really like what Asus did with their personal widgets and notification bar. Really makes the tablet feel fluid. The downside with the TF700 is most things aren't optimized for the gorgeous display. I'm sad to say, it's almost a waste. That is one area i'll give the nod to IOS for. Apps look grainy with their icons, games can look poor at times, and some games aren't even available at all.
bhillegass said:
Currently, I own both devices. While I agree they are apples vs oranges (lower end to higher end), I can perhaps share some insight. Let me start by saying getting either device is a win. What we have here is 2 quality tablets utilizing the android OS. The Nexus 7 is more of a convenience device. What I mean by this is the portability, weight, and smoothness are unprecedented. I love walking to the coffee table, picking the 7 up, checking my twitter feed, checking the score of the game, etc... One of the other things I enjoy (despite the lower resolution than the TF700), is e-reading. The lack of stress on my wrists makes it an absolute pleasure to read. I can lay on my back, and hold the tablet above my face with one hand, and have no fear of dropping it. There's a lot of little uses I find the 7 brilliant for. My hang up is the idea of a 7" tablet. It's not big enough, but it's not small enough to use with 2 hands making is slightly awkward for some users.
The Infinity is more of a laptop replacement (especially if you get the keyboard dock). I went with the 64gb version, with a 64gb micro SD card. I have not touched my laptop since. If you are looking for a daily web browser, this is your guy. I never have to zoom in to read, the text is crisp/clear, and I don't find myself straining to view websites. That's another advantage of the 10" tablet over the 7". The screen noticeably trumps the Nexus 7, and sometimes it pains me to switch between the two. Although i'm a big fan of Google and Nexus devices I really like what Asus did with their personal widgets and notification bar. Really makes the tablet feel fluid. The downside with the TF700 is most things aren't optimized for the gorgeous display. I'm sad to say, it's almost a waste. That is one area i'll give the nod to IOS for. Apps look grainy with their icons, games can look poor at times, and some games aren't even available at all.
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How does e-reading on the TF700 feel?
The main reason I'm getting a tablet is to do reading and daily browsing,checking for news etc..
qwerty123321 said:
How does e-reading on the TF700 feel?
The main reason I'm getting a tablet is to do reading and daily browsing,checking for news etc..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, very sharp and clear text.
I actually read more on my tablet then on my e- reader. Because of the higher resolution, and that I can easily switch to pocket to read an article or read a magazine with colours.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Chief Geek said:
Kinda apples to oranges isn't it?
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Depends on what's important to you. It was between the tf700 and the n7 for me too. Both tegra 3, both Asus, similar pixel densities, and before it became the n7, it was officially announced as the 370t, and also had an sd slot and hdmi port. Google lost me when they lost the extras and when Asus made it clear they wouldn't consider a transformer dock on a 7" device (no, I didn't want a smaller dock -- same size dock, smaller slot to put it in, and bonus space for front facing speakers). All extras being equal, I'd have preferred a 7" form factor. A few ended up not being equal.
One area the N7 has the tf700 beat is that it has BT4, while we only have BT3. The 4 is a pretty big jump, enabling super low power accessories. Virtually none exist yet, but they will. Apple's moved their phones and tabs to bt4, and they're a big accessory driver. Another area, arguably, is RAM capacity. They both have the same amount, but the n7 won't need as much to drive its lower res screen down the road. I'd rather have half the storage I have and double the RAM, since I aim to keep this device for many years.
The main reason I'm getting a tablet is to do reading and daily browsing,checking for news etc..
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Click to collapse
The larger screen on the tf700 is going to make it a much nicer magazine reader. On the n7, you'd really want to reflow mags into mostly text for readability, but on this you can read mags as they are without having to pan and zoom all over the place. I suspect comics might be more easily consumed on this too, but I'm just guessing, I haven't gotten to that yet. Some websites are going to be much easier to read without panning and zooming, but apps like Google Currents are often far more convenient than the sites themselves anyway -- much better layout on any tab.
Finally, the tf700 has super IPS+, which basically means it can get brighter than virtually any other tab out there. This is touted as being daylight readable, and it is more than any other mobile I've had, but the uber-shininess of the glass and reflections that come from it really mar the outdoor reading experience. In summer heat, the metal exterior sucks up the heat just as fast as you'd expect too. I will use sips+ for outdoor typing once it cools down a little (its been over 110F for me for two weeks), but I haven't decided how much outdoor reading I'll do.
The n7 would be more comfortable to hold for extended periods, both because it's lighter and it has the textured back.
bottom line: please do not compare. of course tf700 is the better option.. its like asking do you like mercedez or kia ?? when the money is not an issue!!
imagine cars said:
bottom line: please do not compare. of course tf700 is the better option.. its like asking do you like mercedez or kia ?? when the money is not an issue!!
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Fragmentation much? We're all android bros, we need to unite to beat the fragmentation and the isheep.
Like others have said, there is no comparison between the two. Both have their pluses and minuses. I own both and enjoy both equally.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Reviews with accompanying video moved to bottom for readability.
Ars Technica
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/microsofts-first-stab-at-a-pc-surface-reviewed/
Verdict: Surface RT is a nice tablet, but Windows RT is an unknown.
AnandTech
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review
LaptopMag
http://www.laptopmag.com/review/tablets/microsoft-surface-rt.aspx
Verdict: 3.5/5
Pros: Striking industrial design; Innovative Touch Cover; Sharp display; Microsoft Office included; Long battery life
Cons: Few high-quality apps available for now; Poor-quality cameras; Sluggish and unresponsive at times
The Verdict: The Surface and its innovative Touch Cover proves that Microsoft can make hardware to rival the iPad, but the app ecosystem needs to catch up.
New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/t...eils-the-surface-its-first-tablet-review.html
"Sleek Tablet, but Clumsy Software"
ABCNews
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/mi...indows-tablet-turned-laptop/story?id=17540348
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/video/microsoft-surface-rt-video-review-17549478 (video review)
Wired
http://www.wired.com/reviews/2012/10/microsoft-surface/all/
AllThingsD
http://allthingsd.com/20121023/hardworking-tablet-with-pc-chops/
Gizmodo
http://gizmodo.com/5953866
TheVerge
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review
Verdict: 7/10.
Pluses: Ambitious new software. Solidly made, handsome hardware. Full Office suite. Excellent battery life.
Minuses: Performance is hit or miss. Weak ecosystem. Buggy software. Doesn't live up to hybrid promise.
Engadget
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/23/microsoft-surface-rt-review/
As a perspective, the Anandtech review compared prelim performance numbers against an (unnamed) Clovertrail tablet:
"On the user experience side alone, the Clovertrail tablet is noticeably quicker than Surface. Surface isn’t slow by any means, but had it used Atom hardware it would’ve been even more responsive.
"Across the board Clovertrail manages a 30 - 50% advantage over Tegra 3. Granted we’re not looking at power consumption here, but the Clovertrail tablet I’m comparing is even smaller/lighter than Surface for what it’s worth."
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review/10
On the ergonomics of the Touch/TypeCover, a key selling point for Surface:
http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/23/microsoft-surface-rt-review/
"However, the Touch Covers reveal the Surface’s fundamental flaw: The Surface is ungainly large when deployed. When used with the Surface’s kickstand and a Touch Cover, the whole contraption is 10-inches deep. That’s the same depth as a 15-inch MacBook Pro. An iPad with a Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard is only 7-inches deep; most ultrabooks are 9-inches or under. A Surface with a Touch Cover barely fits on most airplane seat-back trays; it doesn’t work at all on the trays that pull out of an armrest. That’s a problem.
"This design makes it very hard to use the Surface with a Touch Cover anywhere but a tabletop. It needs a 10-inch deep flat surface. I could not use the Surface with a Touch Cover sitting in an armchair, walking around, or laying on my back in bed. Forget about using it on the commode; it sits too precariously on the legs for comfort. These are use-cases that I do nearly daily with my iPad and Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard. The Surface is only usable when seated at a table or desk."
On video out:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review/6
"On the left edge of the device there’s a custom video out port that can be paired with a Microsoft made VGA or HDMI dongle. I tested HDMI output with Microsoft's dongle and unfortunately the result wasn't very good. The 1080p output had a lot of issues with scaling quality (as you can see from the shot below) and there was a lot of tearing on the screen with a big impact on UI frame rate."
I did have the same thought about plains and trains etc its a real pain. Though its worth noting that you should be able to plug in a standard keyboard and do away with the cover. I really don't think its worth the extra £100 that said I think the whole thing is overpriced! That said I am an MS fanboi so I will be getting mine but I do fear that they went for looks over function.
If I had a spare £1000 the best I have seen by a clear mile is the sony duo 11, that device makes the surface look pathetic but then at double the price it really should.
lumpaywk said:
I did have the same thought about plains and trains etc its a real pain. Though its worth noting that you should be able to plug in a standard keyboard and do away with the cover. I really don't think its worth the extra £100 that said I think the whole thing is overpriced! That said I am an MS fanboi so I will be getting mine but I do fear that they went for looks over function.
If I had a spare £1000 the best I have seen by a clear mile is the sony duo 11, that device makes the surface look pathetic but then at double the price it really should.
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I love how all these reviewers are ragging on the app selection alleady - The thing is just coming out and all of the apps are being wrtiten for tablet - There's already like 4k and more are to come since its part of full Win8 as well. Even the Ipad doesn't have many apps written just for tablet. What's also frustrating is they are saying how buggy it is - Give me a break, like MS is not going to ever update the thing. I guess the tech world has higher expectations because its MS and they love Apple so much.
Let the product be released and get in the real world for a bit before we cast judgement.
As long as the hardware is solid, which it sounds like it is, the rest will be sorted out.
guitar1969 said:
I love how all these reviewers are ragging on the app selection allready - The thing is just coming out and all of the apps are wrtiten for tablet - There's already like 4k and more are to come since its part of full Win8 as well. Even the Ipad doesn't have many apps written just for tablet. What's also frustrating is they are saying how buggy it is - Give me a break, like MS is not going to every update the thing.
Let the product be released and get in the real world.
As long as the hardware is solid, which ist sounds like it is, the rest will be sorted out.
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if the reviewers don't point out both positive and negatives of today, when should they?
its been released to the real world, folks are giving real reviews, today.
last i saw the ipad and mini ipad have somewhere near 275,000 applications.
its not mature, that's for sure. if there were no issues to improve, it would stagnate and not change. I love to read honest, real reviews pointing out possibilities for improvement, it means there -will- be improvement.
I began to pre-order a Surface RT and after looking at the comparison between RT and Pro, I backed out. After the Surface started shipping I read two conflicting reviews from blog sites that I read often. This reinforced my opinion to wait for Pro.
A few days ago I wandered into a MS popup store and played with it. I also found out that MS offers a no-restock 14 day return policy, so not much risk.
Some of the negatives I've read:
- thin keyboard cover - keyboard is bad, trackpad sucks. In my opinion so far - the keyboard and trackpad are both fantastic. I wish the trackpad as a slippery surface but other than that, it's great.
- screen resolution stinks. Well, by the numbers that's true - it's nothing to write home about, however, as with the Lumia 900 (also a low screen resolution), the OS is really optimized for large, vivid text and clean graphics which in many ways masks the low resolution. I honestly did not find myself missing more pixels
- limited app selection - this one is absolutely true, however there are a number out and more coming, but it is a good reason to pause and think carefully
Based on my experience so far, it's my opinion that if you want a tablet, you probably don't want the Surface Pro. That's right, the Pro. The RT may be the right device.
Why?
- the Pro is almost twice as thick
- the Pro is a half-pound heavier
- battery life? who knows
- battery life/performance balance could prove to be a challenge with WIn 8 Pro
- virus protection, spyware/malware scanners come back into play and take up processor cycles and may suck battery
Despite not having "full Windows", why do I like the Surface RT?
- thin
- light
- SD card slot
- full USB port
- video out (VGA or HDMI)
- Bluetooth
- Office 2013
- Support for LinkedIn, FB, Exchange, Google, and MS accounts (with very clean integration for contacts, calendar, and messaging
I've used a hard stylus on a tablet before (Galaxy Note and Xyboard 10.1). I can tell you that I've most frequently used a stylus to interact with smaller icons on the screen. It was never hyper-accurate enough for real drawing. For that, I'd need a Wacom tablet. Not having a stylus with the RT is not a loss for me, and the whole UI is designed for fingers and a keyboard. I don't see the application for a stylus.
So what do I think is missing?
For me, really only one thing... the Juniper Junos Pulse client. I was able to get the installer but it won't install because it's not an ARM-friendly installer file. That's the only thing I'd love to have an x86 emulator for. Other than that, I'm happy so far. Lots more testing to do this week.
All in all though I find the Surface RT to be a great piece of kit, and probably a better main stream device than the Pro. Even putting aside the price, I think the size/weight will make it less appealing for most.
My perfect match is a dull desktop system running Win 7, and the Surface RT. I just hope that more mainstream app developers will get on board quickly.
I suppose only time will tell.
I also think its worth a note that the pro will likely cost around (uk) £800 - £900 and if you are going fo that much and want full blown windows etc its worth looking at the Sony Vaio duo. I played with it for quite some time in store and I am fully in love. Its big and heavy for a tablet but its far more powerful and has a much more useable keyboard. I really recommend anyone who can spend that much take a real look at it as it makes the surface pro look like a toy.
I think you two have summed it up perfectly. After installing Win8 Pro on my 6 month old latop this weekend I've come round to the idea that an RT tablet does the job of a tablet perfectly, with the current limitation of app variety. I have a desktop which is just used for gaming, laptop and ipad.
I can see me changing the ipad for a Surface RT. keeping Win 8 pro on the laptop, Win 7 on the desktop.
A few more points:
RT still allows Flash in the browser, running software as Admin, scripting with CMD or Powershell, unlocking for sideloading, and using system utilities like Disk Management (if you're feeling bold, you can reclaim a few gigs of storage by nuking the Recovery partition and extending the OS partition into it).
RT really does get great battery life. I mean, seriously excellent. Microoft's 8-hour estimate is, if anything, possibly a bit conservative. I was able to simultaneously play music (streamed over WiFi), copy a ton of files from my main box (13GB of music), and browse the web at the same time, and the battery drain during that time was... about 12%/hour. That's 8 hours of heavy usage, not just everyday stuff. 3 hours of Skype call, historically a horrifically battery-draining app, took maybe 40% of the battery.
Surface RT has no moving parts internally. No fans, in particular. The Surface Pro isn't actually anywhere near twice as thick (it's about 4mm more, I think; that's less than 50% thicker) but it will need to have fans, and to vent heat. MS did a very neat design where it vents all around the rim, instead of making a single hot spot, but still...
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT. Aside from putting our own OS on the hardware, Surface is already pretty well jailbroken, and we're just barely getting started!
GoodDayToDie said:
A few more points:
RT still allows Flash in the browser, running software as Admin, scripting with CMD or Powershell, unlocking for sideloading, and using system utilities like Disk Management (if you're feeling bold, you can reclaim a few gigs of storage by nuking the Recovery partition and extending the OS partition into it).
RT really does get great battery life. I mean, seriously excellent. Microoft's 8-hour estimate is, if anything, possibly a bit conservative. I was able to simultaneously play music (streamed over WiFi), copy a ton of files from my main box (13GB of music), and browse the web at the same time, and the battery drain during that time was... about 12%/hour. That's 8 hours of heavy usage, not just everyday stuff. 3 hours of Skype call, historically a horrifically battery-draining app, took maybe 40% of the battery.
Surface RT has no moving parts internally. No fans, in particular. The Surface Pro isn't actually anywhere near twice as thick (it's about 4mm more, I think; that's less than 50% thicker) but it will need to have fans, and to vent heat. MS did a very neat design where it vents all around the rim, instead of making a single hot spot, but still...
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT. Aside from putting our own OS on the hardware, Surface is already pretty well jailbroken, and we're just barely getting started!
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If I can get Eclipse on Windows RT, then it is game over.
I will get Windows RT instead of Pro.
Interesting thoughts. I move back and forth daily on what one to get. I wish the RT port was USB 3.0. And the lower resolution screen is still a concern of mine.
Really though, I want a 64GB without the Touch/Type keyboards. I'll never use them and unless they are thrown in? I'll pass.
GoodDayToDie said:
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT.
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Could you please clarify? Any links or threads that provide info on this? Thought this was impossible.
He's referring to this thread, specifically post #10.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1885399
e.mote said:
He's referring to this thread, specifically post #10.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1885399
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Thanks. That's what I figured. I read that thread some time ago - sort of a dead end - not really a practical solution.
You would need source code, and then the ability to self-sign could be easily revoked at any time, disabling all hacked 3rd party apps with one update.
GoodDayToDie said:
A few more points:
Surface RT has no moving parts internally. No fans, in particular. The Surface Pro isn't actually anywhere near twice as thick (it's about 4mm more, I think; that's less than 50% thicker) but it will need to have fans, and to vent heat. MS did a very neat design where it vents all around the rim, instead of making a single hot spot, but still...
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT. Aside from putting our own OS on the hardware, Surface is already pretty well jailbroken, and we're just barely getting started!
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I looked at the specs again, I had my facts wrong - it is just about 50% thicker, not twice as thick, but that still makes a big difference.
One other thing I noticed is that Surface Pro doesn't come with Office, so aside from the cost of the tablet, add another $150-$300 to the cost to get parity with the Surface RT.
In addition, I noticed this:
Connectivity:
Surface RT: Always connected, even when in standby mode. Connected standby keeps apps up-to-date.
Surface Pro: Connectivity off when hibernating/sleeping to preserve battery.
Something tells me MS already knows battery will be a problem with the Pro. There is no standby with the Pro, only the PC-esque hibernate/sleep, so there will be lag when starting up and you can't "peek" at your device to see messages.
Full side-by-side comparison of specs available here:
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/surface-with-windows-rt/help-me-choose
What is the camera specs like in megapixels?
1.0 front and back for RT. It is a seriously bad camera.
Would like to know what will come with Pro. Though, I will say I was pretty convinced I wanted Pro instead, but after reading this thread I'm on the fence.
compty said:
What is the camera specs like in megapixels?
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Same 720p (just shy of 1MP) camera, front and back, for both the RT and the Pro. Most people don't realize this but even a 1080p screen is only 2MP. So although the resolution is not that high, it is enough to fill the screen of the RT without enlarging the image. Interestingly, on the Surface Pro, viewing an image taken with the camera in full-screen mode may look pixelated.
A detailed spec sheet with side-by-side comparison is here.
Just received mine. It is much heavier than I thought. Haven't turned it on yet. Want to fully charge it.
One thing of concern is that somehow there is a tiny and I mean tiny scratch/scuff in the casing by the cover connector which shows a sliver of silver (metal) underneath. I am wondering how durable the black coating is on the casing and if lots of scratches will scuff away at the paint.
Meh, nowadays its sort of the norm to have decent cameras, especially on the back. I suppose I won't be taking many pictures with the surface anyway.
I started a compatibility thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1964402
Lots of great stuff with the RT, much to my surprise. I really thought some of these features would be reserved for the Pro. I have to say I am impressed.
If we can overcome the Junos Pulse issue this can easily be my daily driver system.
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
ih8sense said:
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
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You bought a good tablet, mate. build quality and software is awesome, that's why u got interested in the first place.
On the other hand, will it get support?, i believe in time it will. My reasons is touch screen. Touch is the future, yes x86 apps already exist but they dont exist in touch. So the future being touch will revolutionize the existing apps for touch and this will make room for metro apps. And this is were rt will win.
Secondly the future is portable, x86 is not, rt is. Windows 8 is bridge to what will become sindows of the future, a touch only windows. Besides if MS fails in marketing RT, someone else will want a cut of the pie and market RT.
Lastly, modders will break this device before xmas, sideloading will b possible,emulation will happen and i foresee a future were android emulators will run on this beast. A lot will happen
RT has potential, surface may fail but RT will not cos its light weight and its future proof.
I think RT will not fail. PPL will wait till they see their lovely apps on it but they will come. Windows is used on more than 90% of the computers in the world. So I think its just a matter of time to developers finish and publish their apps. Even if winRT won't get as popular as win8, the code is almost the same which makes easy to publish the same app for Arm.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express
you know, the only pros of surface pro over surface IMO is the MKV support and 1080p screen.
2 things that made me return surface are
- lack of MKV support (which 90% of my movies are in mkv)
- low resolution. When i used it while lying down the bed, i tend to use it closer to my eyes than when i'm sitting down. The text doesn't look crisp and i can see pixels in the pictures.
If those 2 reasons won't bother you, surface is one hell of a tablet and for 499$, it's a steal. Remember that it's a tablet, apps would be optimized for touchscreen and you will have great mobility over laptop. The apps are pretty limited for now but i believe developers will start developing for it. I love the surface even though i return it.
I think that the biggest hurdle for Windows RT is the WinRT runtime. It's horribly gimped. I was honestly amazed at how god awful and stunted C# was in WinRT. It's almost as if they intentionally limited it for reasons only MS knows.
First off, Microsoft haven't announced a halving of orders. It is merely conjecture. What they have announced is support for Surface RT until 2017 though we dont know any details around this.
I dont think that Windows RT will be a big platform in the way that other lightweight OS's are - iOS and Android - but I do think it offers something unique. If you use tons of popular apps on other platforms, you will be disappointed in the Surface RT. If you live in a web browser, you will love Surface RT. I am not sure this will change unless those apps come for Windows 8 and can also be cross compiled for Windows RT.
If a 10" tablet is what you want and it fits your life, I see only 2 usable options - an iPad or a Surface RT. Android is awful on 10" tablets.
Sounds to me though that if you want the form factor the Surface brings, then Surface Pro might be more suitable, but I am not convinced it is a viable tablet as Windows desktop mode is horrible to use with touch.
quoted:
Sounds to me though that if you want the form factor the Surface brings, then Surface Pro might be more suitable, but I am not convinced it is a viable tablet as Windows desktop mode is horrible to use with touch.
pro =$1000, 4ish hour battery life.
no sales numbers released from rt.
ruh roh.
What about the Lenovo Twist? Windows 8 Pro, i5, 128gb SSD 12.5 touch screen and it is a tablet and laptop.. I returned my Surface and bought a Twist for $699 on BF.. Hoping it will do it all....
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Got to agree with some of the above posts.
RT is the future of windows, it is the new NT, and some of us older users will remember how that was initially received...
The Surface RT is one helluva sexy tablet. In build quality, specs, and screen beauty it just is awesome. Really without software it is way ahead of the whole pack..... I played with it a long time....
But every time I interacted with the windows interface, there was just that familiar slow feeling. I am even now very serious about the Surface RT and am hotly debating buying it. But the software is just slightly underwhelming. I love the Metro interface, but not whats under it.
IF you do web browisng, games, movies and pics ONLY - this is an ABSOLUTELY must buy. The gorgeous experience is unbeatable. But the whole interaction at the windows level tends to wake me up from my dream. Having support for proper PowerPoint with HDMI ouput makes this a traveling presentation platform etc. But apps? apps? apps? You cannot entice people if the apps are missing - you cannot say " buy it now, I guarantee that apps are coming". It does not work with consumers. That it may lead to a slow down fro the Surface is one of my biggest fears.
On a tablet I browse the internet, listen to music, read books, email, and watch some sports. So by my own standard I should buy it. But Windows keeps me away...
One thing I do not agree about as said above - that windows desktop is not for touch. Using the touch laptops I find this to be quite intuitive, coming from a tablet world. Yes, on vertical screens one's hands can get tired to do a lot of touching - holding it up to the screen for extended periods. But I find it much more natural than trackpads - I hate trackpads, even Apple's "magic" trackpad ....
My 2 cents.... I need to decide if I just want a tablet, or a tablet that can double as a small laptop.
saryu said:
you know, the only pros of surface pro over surface IMO is the MKV support and 1080p screen.
2 things that made me return surface are
- lack of MKV support (which 90% of my movies are in mkv)
- low resolution. When i used it while lying down the bed, i tend to use it closer to my eyes than when i'm sitting down. The text doesn't look crisp and i can see pixels in the pictures.
If those 2 reasons won't bother you, surface is one hell of a tablet and for 499$, it's a steal. Remember that it's a tablet, apps would be optimized for touchscreen and you will have great mobility over laptop. The apps are pretty limited for now but i believe developers will start developing for it. I love the surface even though i return it.
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In less than a month after the release there are at least two applications tha support some mkv. They are still not perfect but it took developers more than a year to get the same result for the iPad.
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---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------
Yes, I'm worry about the cut down the numbers of orders for RT reported by suppliers and Microsoft rushing to release the PRO version acting like it will be the saver.
http://ultramobilepc-tips.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-high-risk-behind-surface-pro.html#links
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ctitanic said:
In less than a month after the release there are at least two applications tha support some mkv. They are still not perfect but it took developers more than a year to get the same result for the iPad.
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---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------
Yes, I'm worry about the cut down the numbers of orders for RT reported by suppliers and Microsoft rushing to release the PRO version acting like it will be the saver.
http://ultramobilepc-tips.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-high-risk-behind-surface-pro.html#links
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
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After hearing the pricing of the pro and the battery limitations, I actually like my Surface RT more now. Unfortunately there is so much pressure for it to beat the IPAD that people write it off without giving it a chance . I like it more and more every day.
ih8sense said:
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It very depends on your propose, what you need for it.
for me, i do need a lot excel , ppt, word, and I tried do it on iPad, it sucks. I own a Macbook Air, but a bit trouble while checking something on street .....
After testing Surface for an hour, I love it. Of course if you looking for fun more than a working tab, its not a good choice at this moment as lack of apps support.
Just hope Chrome will come and get more apps soon , then will be the king of tablet im sure.
guitar1969 said:
After hearing the pricing of the pro and the battery limitations, I actually like my Surface RT more now. Unfortunately there is so much pressure for it to beat the IPAD that people write it off without giving it a chance . I like it more and more every day.
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I completely agree. I can't put the damn thing down! The browser experience is sensational. And Xbox music is phenomenally good! I mean free streaming music, albeit with fairly unobtrusive add support.
And as for apps you needn't worry. The company I work for has figured out that Windows 8 is going onto every budget laptop from here on out and the Windows 8 marketplace presents a great opportunity. As such are having their iOS & Android app ported to Win8 as we speak.
Also as another example the impetus to get into Windows 8/RT the VLC Player devs are going to the extreme of going to Kickstarter for funding to hire full time devs to get VLC Player into the Windows 8 marketplace as fast as possible... http://www.wpcentral.com/vlc-starts-kickstarter-windows-8-and-beyond-development-funding
So I sincerely believe the WINRT app catalogue will really take off.
Also, you know it's a good device when the missus is continually wanting it off you!
I agree with others... The RT has a good life to it. The problem IMO, is that people are holding out to see the Pro, then they'll decide.
Honestly I think people will end up with the RT over the Pro.
You just can't use a 10" screen for full desktop applications. It doesn't work.
Also, and this is big, the Pro is not using a Run Time system, that means you must shut it down when not in use, it will suspend instead of sleep, and it will go through battery like mad (they expect 4 hours max).
If you like how fast the Surface RT turns on, and how your e-mails, status updates, and calendar reminders are there, kiss that goodbye with the Pro. It is, for all intents and purposes, a PC in a thin form factor. An engineering marvel for sure, but I think people will expect it to be like the Surface RT, iPad, or Android tab just beefier. When they find out it isn't, I think RT sales will shoot up.
I also read somewhere that the Surface is not optimized to use all the 5 cores of the Tegra3 and it is still running crippled. I believe it came from Nvidia themselves. Once fixed, it should be more responsive. I hope so, because it does seem a bit slow in opening apps and such, although it is tolerable.
guitar1969 said:
I also read somewhere that the Surface is not optimized to use all the 5 cores of the Tegra3 and it is still running crippled. I believe it came from Nvidia themselves. Once fixed, it should be more responsive. I hope so, because it does seem a bit slow in opening apps and such, although it is tolerable.
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Microsoft will continue to optimise the base firmware of the device to improve performance. They've released one such update already and there will be plenty more to come.
Just look how far they've pushed the Xbox 360.
A little disappointed not seeing a new surface with Tegra K1 or mini sized model.
That's why I am thinking to buy Surface 2. I want a tablet with the full functioned Office and I can check and edit documents easily outside. Is it still worth to buy a Windows RT tablets right now? Do you guys think Microsoft is still developing Windows RT?
Can someone who have Surface 2 share you experiences? :fingers-crossed:
My honest opinion, not worth it. I honestly don't think RT is around to stay and some of the atom tablets manage to get to similar enough price points yet run full windows 8.1.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
My honest opinion, not worth it. I honestly don't think RT is around to stay and some of the atom tablets manage to get to similar enough price points yet run full windows 8.1.
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That's what i think too. I really hope Microsoft would bring out a surface-liked, atom equipped, 10.1 inch Windows 8.1 tablet in the future
I have a Surface RT, I mostly use it for watching episodes of shows, school work, and emails. For basic usage it's fine with 8.1 RT, M$ still does windows updates to fix whatever.
The surface 2 Pro & SP3 both have the same i5 Haswell that's about 1yr old now. I honestly don't see why the SP3 didn't wait for Broadwell...
Transmitted From Burning Gundam
For me, the lack of a published jailbreak for RT 8.1 would be a deal-breaker on the Surface 2. Hopefully that will change as I believe a jailbreak is still in the works, but I wouldn't bet on it anymore when x86 devices are at or near the same price point. If you don't care about running desktop software other than office, and find a really good deal on a Surface 2, then it might still be worth it. I really like the Surface hardware and form factor, just Windows RT is somewhat disappointing out of the box. I've had my Surface RT and type cover for a bit over a year now and it is a really useful device.
I have a Surface 2 for about 7 months now and I still love it! Love it much more than any Android or iPad tablet. It's very good in terms of performance and the kickstand is just amazing! I love the 16:9 form factor because I always use my tablet in landscape (On a table or most of the time on my chest when I am in bed ) Internet Explorer 11 is amazing, much better than Chrome or Safari are except for one annoying bug that is when I try to go back to a page it takes almost forever to load it again! (Microsoft if you are reading this, please fix this bug, it's very very annoying). I love watching movies in there as well and the design is fantastic! But yours movies will have to be mp4 as there aren't AFAIK any good free mkv players (VLC team if you are reading this, we are still waiting for VLC in ARM!!! Please do it!!!)
Battery life is not very good when you use it for web browsing (about 6, 6.5 hours) but for watching movies it's very good! If you want for Office though, keep in mind that the Office RT version doesn't have VBA...
I love the virtual keyboard, it's really really responsive, never failed me...
And there is a USB socket where I can plug my pen drive with my movies and it's really a very good thing to have and you'll never have that in a iPad.
The cameras are ok, not the best but also not the worst. The front is good enough for skype calls.
The audio could be a little better though with speakers on front instead of sides, maybe for surface 3.
And another thing, there are still missing a lot of apps in the store. And the charger is a little tricky to get it plugged in.
I think Microsoft might have a killer tablet Windows RT tablet if they have:
- Have the speakers on the front
- Have a better GPU (Tegra K1 )
- Have a little bit more bright in the screen and a 12 inch screen like Surface 3
- Improve the battery life for web browsing
- Fix the increasingly annoying bug in the Internet Explorer 11 back button.
The dream is to get a Surface Pro 3 with all this. I believe what's really missing in Surface Pro 3 right now is a really powerful GPU to play games. When Microsoft makes that, then the game is over for every other tablet!! Imagine able to play Watch Dogs at a decent framerate/quality everywhere!! Just plug in a mouse, a keyboard or maybe a 360 controller and you are done.
I'm set to get the Surface 2 in a few weeks coming from Japan, as Microsoft have rare distributors around, with my region having only one who overprice by over $200 to $300 for the Surface Pro series. They absolutely don't carry the Surface 2.
The Surface Pro are really expensive, and I have a powerful but heavy Alienware laptop to do heavier loads for 3D rendering when I need to. So, the Surface 2 comes to mind for my masters thesis writing needs with a great keyboard cover and lighter to carry around.
I'm a heavy Galaxy Note user, was really tempted to get the Note 10.1, or the 12.2. My decision for choosing the Surface 2 instead were:
1. That wonderful built-in kickstand. I don't like leather covers.
2. Fantastic Type Cover 2 for my fast typing and with backlighting.
3. 200GB of OneDrive for 2 freaking years!
4. Full Office.
5. Snappy OS, with practically no viruses I've heard of.
6. Half the price compared to the Pro series, and I'm getting the 64GB version, all within $700 with the Type Cover 2.
7. Full connectivity with USB 3.0, Wifi, Bluetooth, miracasting, and HDMI for extended screen at home.
8. A promising RT future - I know people doubt RT is ever getting the pickup it truly deserves and the news that MS is going to merge RT and WinPhone into one is something. I do not need Instagram, or any of those games most are playing. I mean to see this as my writing and reading tool.
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