Database Info

Backups: Nandroid v. TiBu

Can someone help me understand the difference between a Nandroid backup and using Titanium Backup? Is it similar to the difference between image-based backup vs. file/application based backup? Under what circumstances would one be better than the other?

Your simile is spot on. Nandroid backup is used to completely restore a system with all apps and data.
Titanium Backup is used to restore/reinstall apps and data without changing your system. It's really handy if you get brave and decide to flash a new ROM on your phone. TiBu can put all your previously installed apps into place very quickly.
If you don't like the new ROM, just restore your old system from the Nandroid backup.

Ok, so help me think this through.
I've already Rooted/S-off/flashed a ROM on my phone. So presuming that the ROM image I download via CWM or XDA is on my card anyway, and I have TiBu (I have the paid version) that I can use to selectively restore apps, settings and data, would not Nandroid be redundant in this case?
OlafTheOx said:
Your simile is spot on. Nandroid backup is used to completely restore a system with all apps and data.
Titanium Backup is used to restore/reinstall apps and data without changing your system. It's really handy if you get brave and decide to flash a new ROM on your phone. TiBu can put all your previously installed apps into place very quickly.
If you don't like the new ROM, just restore your old system from the Nandroid backup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

The point of a nandriod backup is to easily go back to a working setup without having to spend time installing apps and tweaking all the numerous settings to your liking. 5 minutes to restore a nandroid backup vs. 2 - 4 hours of installing & tweaking.
DInc with CyanogenMod 6.1 & Invisiblek #28 kernel.

Download Nandroid
Where do I download Nandroid?
Will this one work from the G1 thread?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=459830
Thanks

Nandroid is actually part of Clockwork Recovery. If you reboot to recovery mode you can make and restore backups from there.
As you say your on a custom ROM I assume Clockwork Recovery/CWM/ROM Manager was installed as part of the process.

There is a good overview of ClockworkMod Recovery at http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/what-is-clockworkmod-recovery-and-how-to-use-it-on-android-complete-guide/#features

BillTheCat said:
Can someone help me understand the difference between a Nandroid backup and using Titanium Backup? Is it similar to the difference between image-based backup vs. file/application based backup? Under what circumstances would one be better than the other?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just wondering about the same thing, so thanks for the thread.
Making a Nandroid backup right now ;-)

BTW, nandroid backups are stored on your SD card. You can free up space by either deleting or moving them to storage off the phone. Just keep a backup of your preferred restoration ROM on the SD card. Also, at the very least, it's a good idea to save a backup of the original manufacturer's ROM somewhere.
DInc with CyanogenMod 6.1 & Invisiblek #28 kernel.

technoplunk said:
There is a good overview of ClockworkMod Recovery at addictivetips dot com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the link.
One issue though... it says ClockWorkMod requires ROOT access to create a backup rom image, which on my phone (ATT Aria with HBOOT 1.02) require to have S-OFF first with alpharev, yet most instructions tell you to create a nandroid backup first (which makes sense in case something goes wrong)...
Am I missing something ? you can't create a back, and you take risk doing S-OFF+Root to get there.
I want to remove unwanted ATT crapware, and install non market apps, but I need root access for all this. right ?

[Q] What does nandroid backup contain?

Before people start coming in to flame me for using the search button, please let me clarify that i have looked into several threads on xda and none of them provided me with a clear cut answer of what i wanted to know.
I understand first of all is that nandroid backup is a complete image of what is on the phone which should include stuff like settings, sms, call logs, data etc. What i have not found, however, if they keep other files that are lying around in the phone. For example, most of my Nexus S consists of videos and music (7-10GB) and in separate folders that are not tied to any apps in particular. Hence, if they are included in nandroid backup i would not have sufficient storage to do so (reminder that Nexus S has 16 GB)
I have "accidentally" posted on the galaxy S forum of xda and someone pointed out that it backs up apps and data from the internal SD. As far as i know this is slightly different with Nexus S because i observed that most apps are already installed in the "external" SD portion of the data.
Overall, i'm just a little confused. Can anyone clarify this?

It is just apps and data. The sd card is i believe split so that it doesnt touch your music, videos, and images. It just takes care of the main system stuff like apps and settings. Hoped i helped
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA Premium App

But aren't most apps on the nexus S installed on the sd card section of the storage? At least they are under Settings->Application settings->Manage applications->USB Storage
For example my Gameloft games would be almost 1 GB in size so would that be backed up as well. I will end up with gigantic nandroid backups.

A nAnroid backup includes
.android_source - apps2sd information/apps stored on /sdcard
boot - boot image
cache - cache files stored on /cache
data - apps, dalvik other stuff on /data
recovery - recovery image
system - system apps, frameworks modules etc on /system
nadroid.md5 - md5 information
nandroids do not include anything on the /sdcard other than .android_source.

how to do it? by using CWM?? am i wrong or correct??

ciwek90 said:
how to do it? by using CWM?? am i wrong or correct??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct.
Flash ClockworkMod.
(You might have to rename /etc/install-recovery.sh to get it to stick.)
Boot into fastboot (volumeUp+ power).
Recovery - Backup and Restore - Backup.

Maximilian Mary said:
Correct.
Flash ClockworkMod.
(You might have to rename /etc/install-recovery.sh to get it to stick.)
Boot into fastboot (volumeUp+ power).
Recovery - Backup and Restore - Backup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome! but if i want to flash custom rom and i do backup first then i flash new custom rom, so i can get back all my apps by restoring nandroid backup is it? or nandroid backup is only for when things went wrong? i confuse...

ciwek90 said:
Awesome! but if i want to flash custom rom and i do backup first then i flash new custom rom, so i can get back all my apps by restoring nandroid backup is it? or nandroid backup is only for when things went wrong? i confuse...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nandroid is basically all or nothing. There is an advanced restore which can restore only the partitions you want (like system or data), but it probably won't play nicely with a custom rom. Your best best is to use titanium backup for user apps & data, and perhaps some select system data like texts, bookmarks, and wifi settings. Check out the batch backup/restore options for user apps & data.

ciwek90 said:
Awesome! but if i want to flash custom rom and i do backup first then i flash new custom rom, so i can get back all my apps by restoring nandroid backup is it? or nandroid backup is only for when things went wrong? i confuse...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nandroid backup backs up everything including the rom... so NO you can't restore apps with it.
To just save apks/apps you use eg Titanium Backup.

NOW i know it! Thank you so much @Maximilian Mary and @rentaric for helping me!
Nandroid = for backup/restore previous rom
Titanium = for backup/restore data & apps
Thanks again!

rentaric said:
Nandroid backup backs up everything including the rom... so NO you can't restore apps with it.
To just save apks/apps you use eg Titanium Backup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bro, does nandroid backup include the IMEI also?

heyimCHOLO said:
Bro, does nandroid backup include the IMEI also?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some recoveries have this option buy many don't, just boot to your recovery and see if it is listed as an option, if not, then no

Your apps will still be on your sd card because your just restoring your operating system that you had with all of it settings it will show all of your apps you had but if you deleted it from the sd card when you try opening it it would say app not installed. Nandroid backup saves everything in settings and operating system apps will be on sd card. Some apps can be included in nandroid it just depends where they are located when back up is saved.

[Q] Clockworkmod recovery backup not working properly

Hi gents. I am trying to restore my phone to a recent clockworkmod recovery backup but several of the latest backups won't restore the downloaded programs of the time, nor do they seem to be restoring the general Android settings. Older backups are working perfectly, however, and I can't think of any significant or unusual changes I made to the system that could stop it working properly. Also, I have been backing up and restoring the same way.
I'm using Revolutionary CWM v4.0.1.4, HTC ICS 4.0.4 (w/ older HBOOT for S-OFF), HTC Desire S.
I find this very strange, and unsettling that clockworkmod's backup may be unreliable. Has anybody experienced this?
Another thing, I have also been backing up the entire SD card data in the later backups (just copying to computer via card reader), thinking it may be best to restore backups with this data, but it seems to not make a difference whether this is done, or the data left as-is, or the card cleared. What's best practice in regard to the Android data that's put on the SD card?
My phone is up the creek. Help!?

i am having the same problem restoring CWM v4.0.1.4 backups on my galaxy s2: older backups restore perfectly and newer backups restore incompletely (some settings and SMSs, but no apps and no contacts).
i believe this is an issue with large nandroid images (containing >10,000 files) being unable to restore properly. this implies the backup itself is intact, luckily.
read this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1154892
to rebuild my phone i started by using unyaffs on my PC to access the files on the CWM nandroid image and restore my contacts, call logs, etc:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1370349
you can find additional file locations listed in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=969650
i then used appextractor (available in the play store) to manually restore my apps and app data from the CWM nandroid image. some needed to be redownloaded.
it's a schlepp but better than losing everything entirely.
i've read that TWRP is a more reliable way to backup and restore. i'm certainly not using CWM again.
regarding your second question, the data on your internal and external SD card is irrelevant to the function of the OS, but some apps may rely on that data. for example large apps install on the SD card.

Thanks so much for that matey. I searched and searched but hadn't come across the 10,000 files limitation. How annoying!
Anyhoo, before I saw your post I ended up restoring the latest working backup and reinstalled apps, configured things, got the device mostly up to speed.. but there were some sentimental Messages I wanted to restore. I got that unyaffs exe, the 10,000 file fix one, and managed to extract the mmssms.db just fine..
But I soon learnt it seems to be a nightmare to get it back into ICS because the SQLite db is in full-vacuum mode or some such, meaning it is cached and rewritten to help avoid fragmentation or some such. So I overwrite the mmssms.db, set permissions and ownership, reboot, and it's overwritten with the current one. Argh. I tried clearing cache. Tried running SMS backup/restore apps while the 'good' mmssms.db was in place, but they seem to look at the db cache/temp data, not the mmssms.db.
For those facing my situation and want Messages from CWM/nandroid backups in ICS, I found a great tip just posted on one of the threads N-acetyltransferase linked;
RichAP said:
I did this yesterday using Titanium Backup for my SMS/MMS
You need to go into Preferences and check the *Migrate system data [Experimental] option
Then you go to More - Extract from nandroid backup
There it is listed as Dialer Storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had tried using TiBu to restore Messages from nandroid backup (no success), but Dialer Storage!? How annoying. Anyhoo it's sorted.
Then I quickly found a good alternative recovery and quickly bought the premium version of 4EXT. It's very good, but get this, it actually recovered my latest CWM recovery backup no drama, just like that! Ahh well I didn't need those hours of my life anyway. I've often thought the Desire S's codename Saga is rather apt.
In conclusion, TiBu looks damn good and 4EXT is a ripper. I'd recommend it however the Galaxy S2 support is apparently unconfirmed thus far. Maybe look into it nevertheless.
Thanks for the help dude.

[Q] Best use of Titanium Backup

Hi,
I need to do a factory reset (to see if it solves a problem that Asus could not solve) and in anyway I read it's safer to wipe data before sending to factory for repair.. So I'd like to make a full backup before this wipe and before the sending to repair..
I installed free Titanium backup (my tablet is rooted), but I'm confused on what I should do before doing the reset and the tutorials I found on Titanium even confused me more..(if you're aware of a nice tutoriel, link would be welcome, because I found none very explicit on xda and even on the web..)
-first, should I use the Asus tool for backup or Titanium ?
- Should I perform a full backup of apps only or apps+system ? I read that system restore could create issues in case restore is not done on same firmware, and I don't know with which FW my tablet will come back from repair.. so should I use apps+system anyway, or make 2 backups (apps first then system or vice versa ?) I'd prefer to restore my tablet as clsoe as it is today, even if possible with bluetooth pairs and wifi connections..
-Should I backup manually my personal files (videos ,various docs, pictures,..) before using Titanium ? (for instance to save space and make nbackups smaller?) If yes, how do we know which folders are backuped up by Titanium and which are not ?
- My sdcard is already largely used with only a few GB left. Can I ask Titanium to save directly to a PC ? Or should I use another sdcard (but then, what will happen to apps installed on sdcard ?) ?
Thanks a lot for your hints.
Ricorico94

There are several different options for you to choose from but I will share the way I usually back up my tablet. I flash different ROMs frequently and have had to use backups quite a bit.
I usually use Titanium Backup to backup everything but only restore non-system apps and data. You're right that restoring system data can result in problems if restoring to different ROMs, not necessarily firmware. It depends on how much the firmware has changed. Since there might be big enough changes that it might screw everything up then I'd avoid restoring system apps and data. If your tablet is backed up to Google, it will sometimes keep the WiFi and Bluetooth pairings and restore them once you log back into your Google account. Not always though. Also I'm not sure that the free version of Titanium Backup can save any place other than an SD card. The paid version can save to Dropbox and Google Drive.
If you're sending your tablet in for repair, you should move all of your personal files to your computer or SD card, deleting them off the tablet. At least, that's what I'd do.
There is one more option which would make saving a lot easier and that is if you have a custom recovery installed like TWRP or CWM you can create a Nandroid Backup of everything, System, Data and all. With all your pictures, etc the file would be huge but you could move that to your computer and restore it when your tablet comes back. That would keep an exact copy of your system and replace whatever ASUS does to it with what you currently have. If I wanted to keep my tablet as close to how I set it up, this is what I would do. Of course, your tablet has to be rooted and unlocked to do so.

wrynn7 said:
There are several different options for you to choose from but I will share the way I usually back up my tablet. I flash different ROMs frequently and have had to use backups quite a bit.
I usually use Titanium Backup to backup everything but only restore non-system apps and data. You're right that restoring system data can result in problems if restoring to different ROMs, not necessarily firmware. It depends on how much the firmware has changed. Since there might be big enough changes that it might screw everything up then I'd avoid restoring system apps and data. If your tablet is backed up to Google, it will sometimes keep the WiFi and Bluetooth pairings and restore them once you log back into your Google account. Not always though. Also I'm not sure that the free version of Titanium Backup can save any place other than an SD card. The paid version can save to Dropbox and Google Drive.
If you're sending your tablet in for repair, you should move all of your personal files to your computer or SD card, deleting them off the tablet. At least, that's what I'd do.
There is one more option which would make saving a lot easier and that is if you have a custom recovery installed like TWRP or CWM you can create a Nandroid Backup of everything, System, Data and all. With all your pictures, etc the file would be huge but you could move that to your computer and restore it when your tablet comes back. That would keep an exact copy of your system and replace whatever ASUS does to it with what you currently have. If I wanted to keep my tablet as close to how I set it up, this is what I would do. Of course, your tablet has to be rooted and unlocked to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Thanks a lot for this advice. Do you know if I can still make 2 separate backups, so that I could use system backup if there's no FW change ?
Regarding the TWRP custom recovery, I understood that since I am already with FW 10.4.4.25 (android 4.1.1) and only rooted, there's no way to install customer recovery. Did I understood properly, or is there a way to downgrade to previous versions first, istall custom and upgrade again back to current FW ?
What do you mean by "tablet backed up to Google" ? I have "save my datas" checked under "backup" menu of parameters, but is there a way to check that there's indeed something in their servers already ?
br,
Ricorico94

You could make as many backups as you wanted. Titanium Backup allows you to restore whatever you want it to so you really only have to make one backup. You can restore everything but the system apps and data or everything. You can even use it to uninstall or freeze what you're not using (as long as it's not an integral part of the FW of course). It's not an all or nothing deal. I would still move all of your personal data to a computer or SD card so nothing happens to it.
My understanding is that installing CWM or TWRP require your device to be unlocked using an app that is provided through the ASUS website. Just being rooted isn't sufficient. If you don't want to unlock your device then you're stuck with using the Titanium Backup method. Just make sure it is saving your apps to an external SD card and not the internal one.
And yes, I was referring to the setting that you already have checked about Google backing up your data. It doesn't always restore everything though so you might have to pair everything again anyway.

ricorico94 said:
Hi,
Thanks a lot for this advice. Do you know if I can still make 2 separate backups, so that I could use system backup if there's no FW change ?
Regarding the TWRP custom recovery, I understood that since I am already with FW 10.4.4.25 (android 4.1.1) and only rooted, there's no way to install customer recovery. Did I understood properly, or is there a way to downgrade to previous versions first, istall custom and upgrade again back to current FW ?
What do you mean by "tablet backed up to Google" ? I have "save my datas" checked under "backup" menu of parameters, but is there a way to check that there's indeed something in their servers already ?
br,
Ricorico94
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it is a good idea to install a custom recovery if you are about to send the tablet to Asus - I assume for a warranty repair. You would have to unlock your bootloader and that negates your warranty. So just forgettaboutit.
Google backs up some of your data: Calendar and contacts mainly, but also all the apps you have downloaded or bought from the Play Store.
But it is much faster to restore apps with Titanium instead of downloading them from the Play Store.
So backup apps and data in TiBu and move the backup to your PC.
I don't quite understand why you want to backup system data. It's always potentially disruptive to mess with system data yourself. And you are on a pretty old rom and bootloader - so you're due for an update anyway.
Pictures, videos etc, I would just move to an external drive/card or your PC.
When you got everything backed up, do a Factory Reset. That will wipe your data partition.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 4

Thanks to both of you for your help!
berndblb said:
I don't think it is a good idea to install a custom recovery if you are about to send the tablet to Asus - I assume for a warranty repair. You would have to unlock your bootloader and that negates your warranty. So just forgettaboutit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. I was asking this for future, when tablet comes back from repair: at that time, I might want to have a stronger debug/backup using a custom recovery (at least that's what I understood it's very helpful at): I'm soon at warranty end, so I can wait expiration.
It's a good news that the unlock tool of Asus can still be used to allow installation of custom recovery. I'll need to read more on how to do it, etc.
Thanks again !

[Q] Flashing ROM & Restoring Apps ect

If I flash a ROM and then want to restore all my apps and data, why should I use Titanium?
1. So I see that my google "Backup account" can backup my data and restore apps and there settings and data. So why use Titanium?
2. whats the difference between googles backup and Titanium's?
3. Can I use both together when restoring? I assume google will restore first and then I will restore from Titanium... Is there any reason to restore from google account?
4. And then there's TWRP and its backup: what I understand about this is if I do a backup before I flash Viper Rom then I can flash my backup if I want to return to my old ROM and it will restore the ROM and apps and all data (so I wouldn't need to restore from Titanium and/or google in this scenario?). Is this correct?
Thanks, smoka

the app data that is being talked about is rarely 3rd party app data.
http://www.howtogeek.com/140376/htg-explains-what-android-data-is-backed-up-automatically/
titanium lets you back up apps whenever you please it even lets you keep old copies around if for some reason there is something in an update you don't like.
your assumptions on TWRP are spot on however if you make a backup today and a month down the road you decide to flash back all your apps have data from a month ago and you loose all your new stuff.
Titanium also lets you extract data from a TWRP or CWM backup. at least on an M8 I've only gotten it to work if the backup is on the "internal sd card"
Titanium pro has a lot of additional features scheduled backups. you can sync to a google drive, dropbox, or box account. backing up only data/apps that have changed.
http://matrixrewriter.com/android/
also if you have backups of everything and all you have is a metered net connection you can reinstall the apps without dipping into whatever data pool you have.

n0ne980 said:
the app data that is being talked about is rarely 3rd party app data.
http://www.howtogeek.com/140376/htg-explains-what-android-data-is-backed-up-automatically/
titanium lets you back up apps whenever you please it even lets you keep old copies around if for some reason there is something in an update you don't like.
your assumptions on TWRP are spot on however if you make a backup today and a month down the road you decide to flash back all your apps have data from a month ago and you loose all your new stuff.
Titanium also lets you extract data from a TWRP or CWM backup. at least on an M8 I've only gotten it to work if the backup is on the "internal sd card"
Titanium pro has a lot of additional features scheduled backups. you can sync to a google drive, dropbox, or box account. backing up only data/apps that have changed.
http://matrixrewriter.com/android/
also if you have backups of everything and all you have is a metered net connection you can reinstall the apps without dipping into whatever data pool you have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok, so what if I do a Titanium backup and then use TWRP to restore from a backup "a month ago" and then will I still have my most resent Titanium backup to restore or will restoring the TWRP backup erase all my current data (titanium backup) on my phone?
thanks for you response

TWRP will not remove your Titanium backups unless you specifically tell it to wipe your sd card (sdcard2) or your personal data partition(sdcard1) depending on where you have it set to back things up to.

smokawhat said:
ok, so what if I do a Titanium backup and then use TWRP to restore from a backup "a month ago" and then will I still have my most resent Titanium backup to restore or will restoring the TWRP backup erase all my current data (titanium backup) on my phone?
thanks for you response
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TWRP takes a snapshot of your system in time. I you do a TWRP nandroid, by default it will copy your /boot, /system, /recovery and /data partitions. Think of it like a restore point in Windows Restore - except better
Titanium Backup is more specific (and also or more limited): You use it for your apps and their data.
It becomes useful if you do a clean install as in: wiping your data partition.
Yes, you can also do a partial restore from TWRP and just restore the data partition of any given nandroid after a clean install, but since it's an image of your /data before the wipe it will also restore potential problems. Restoring with TiBu is somewhat "cleaner" since it re-installs your apps from a backup.
I make a nandroid of my system when I want to flash something new - a new rom or new mod - but I want to keep my option to return to my last working setup.
I use TiBu to reinstall my apps after a clean install.
Anyway - you can never have too many backups :laugh:

berndblb said:
TWRP takes a snapshot of your system in time. I you do a TWRP nandroid, by default it will copy your /boot, /system, /recovery and /data partitions. Think of it like a restore point in Windows Restore - except better
Titanium Backup is more specific (and also or more limited): You use it for your apps and their data.
It becomes useful if you do a clean install as in: wiping your data partition.
Yes, you can also do a partial restore from TWRP and just restore the data partition of any given nandroid after a clean install, but since it's an image of your /data before the wipe it will also restore potential problems. Restoring with TiBu is somewhat "cleaner" since it re-installs your apps from a backup.
I make a nandroid of my system when I want to flash something new - a new rom or new mod - but I want to keep my option to return to my last working setup.
I use TiBu to reinstall my apps after a clean install.
Anyway - you can never have too many backups :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is TiBu?

Titanium backup.lol.
Sent from my Xperia Arc using XDA Free mobile app