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Question about ROM flashes.
I'm actually an IT professional in the work related field, so any basics need not be explained. I am still new to Windows Mobile devices and would like to know what this means for my phone.
The way I view a "ROM" is as a firmware, or static programming on a chip. Maybe even a CMOS imprint. In this field, such things are semi-permanent at a component level. For instance, you don't download a .cab file to upgrade your bios (as many "ROMS" seem to come in .cab files), you boot your system on a floppy and run an application that flashes your CMOS with the new image.
What would we assume the "ROM" is on Windows mobile phones? Is it a chip hidden inside of the phone, separate from the primary memory? Is it simply considered all that is in the \windows directory? I don't see why .cab files can flash the ROM.
This leads me to the question, if you do a hard-reset, I assume there's secondary memory on the phone with the \windows folder and all the factory defaults. The memory must serve no other purpose other than to harbor these defaults in the need of a hard-reset. Does flashing your "ROM" also apply changes to this chip containing the default OS image?
Hi, here a short description:
ROM:
The ROM is quite similar to a computers harddisk AND RAM (All-In-One), but the OS has to and additional software can be integrated via flashing and is therefor fixed. All data you flash will stay in the ROM after a Hard-Reset.
Some ROMs also contain a Bootloader-ROM and/or a Radio-ROM
Bootloader-ROM:
This is quite similar to a computer's BIOS
Radio-ROM:
The firmware to your PDA's built-in connection devices (e.g. GSM, Bluetooth, WLAN,...)
Hard-Reset:
A Hard-Reset is similar to a comlete reinstallation. Some computer vendors add a recovery CD/DVD to their products. On a Windows Mobile Device the Recovery-disc is integrated in the ROM and will be automatically installed during a hard reset.
And to complete this one ;-)...
Soft-Reset:
A Soft-Reset is similar to a cold restart of your computer. By the way, there's no possibility to "shutdown" Windows Mobile like you are used to with Windows XP or Vista.
Oh, and you cannot install a ROM using a cab-file. Cab-files are "executables" to install additional software. They can only be installed on the device. ROM's have to be installed from a connected computer (There's also a resolution to install a ROM from a Storage Card, but i am not used to it and cannot give you more information about this. But you'll find it, searching in the forum).
jon_k said:
Question about ROM flashes.
I'm actually an IT professional in the work related field, so any basics need not be explained. I am still new to Windows Mobile devices and would like to know what this means for my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me Too.
jon_k said:
The way I view a "ROM" is as a firmware, or static programming on a chip. Maybe even a CMOS imprint. In this field, such things are semi-permanent at a component level. For instance, you don't download a .cab file to upgrade your bios (as many "ROMS" seem to come in .cab files), you boot your system on a floppy and run an application that flashes your CMOS with the new image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is firmware on the chip, but like a BIOS, it exists after the phone is off, the battery removed, etc. The stuff in the cab files that you install doesn't. Well, let me retract that. The stuff in the cabs and your data stays there after a soft reset, and removing the battery (at least for a short while, YMMV), but my experience has not been that the data stays there after the battery is out for a while (again, YMMV).
jon_k said:
What would we assume the "ROM" is on Windows mobile phones? Is it a chip hidden inside of the phone, separate from the primary memory? Is it simply considered all that is in the \windows directory? I don't see why .cab files can flash the ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is a chip. Most of the time, they don't use discreet transistors for these time of things. They are prohibitively large and expensive to solder together to make the memory, not to mention power hungry.
To answer your second question, if you peruse the various ROMs here, you will see the following:
Base operating system: This is a common denominator. This is Windows CE/ Mobile edition, WM6, whatever you want to call it.
Additional CABs: This is the flavor the chef uses in his/her kitchen to make the ROM do what appeals to them (and their audience). These can techniclaly be split out and individually installed if the cook puts them as a cab file that you copy to the phone and install from that file downloaded.
jon_k said:
This leads me to the question, if you do a hard-reset, I assume there's secondary memory on the phone with the \windows folder and all the factory defaults. The memory must serve no other purpose other than to harbor these defaults in the need of a hard-reset. Does flashing your "ROM" also apply changes to this chip containing the default OS image?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What will happen when you hard reset is the ROM that was flashed to the phone will be as it was when you first burned it to the phone. Here's an example: You buy the Kaiser marketed as an AT&T Tilt on 1/1/08, use if for 6 months, and on 7/1/08, you hard reset it. It will be the same as when you turned it on for the first time.
Another case: You buy the phone on 1/1/08, and download a ROM from Dutty, or whomever, and you carefully follow the noob instructions (like I did), and flash it on 1/2/08. You do a hard reset on 7/1/08, and now the phone is the same as when it was last upgraded, so it will be the 1/2/08 version that it goes to.
Clear?
Hope this helps, and if there are others that want to correct me, please do so.
Fairly good explanations.
It makes a bit more sense now.
I'll post my new understanding of the control structure and functionality based on everyones post above. If you want to confirm, deny, or alter any of my perceived facts I'd appreciate it! I just like to know a basic understanding of the device functions internally so I can be educated when tinkering with things.
The radio ROM = ROM that controls the radio. Contains frequency ranges/broadcast tweaks for different locales, probably if tweaked can also allow illegal higher wattage transmission power. Some interesting (and surely FCC illegal) hacks are probably available here.
The device ROM - the upper level functions of the phone. Probably has support for the type of WIFI and bluetooth adapter you have. Has to have compatibility to interface with the radio ROM for phone functionality to be supported. Also is what interfaces with the GPS radio, probably the phone, links the keyboard to the OS, etc. Probably handles API between radio ROM and Windows mobile?
The Windows Mobile OS, which is the operating system itself. It communicates with the ROM, and is limited by what the ROM is limited by. Any .cab's or software retrieved here will enhance the OS, nothing more. A hard reset will bring the OS back to it's original state. (Though ROM upgrades remain.) Any cabs installed or changes to \windows in general made will be lost during a hard reset. It restores all content under \windows to it's default state.
Sounds about right with my new understanding. I think for now I'll avoid flashing the ROM. I'm pretty content with modifying the Windows registry hive since it can easily be restored with a hard reset if I bork up a registry key. Unlike the registry, a ROM if a member here misses something (I doubt they're working with much device documentation) a small coding mistake by them could ruin the phone.
Maybe I'll be more prone to start flashing ROM's if there's a way to extract the current ROM for my phone. Perhaps I can update the ROM through ATT or HTC, and use a packet sniffer to sniff the location (likely http URL) of the ROM file.
One further question though,
Until several minutes ago I thought the ROM simply contained device drivers, etc. Stumbled upon this post however.
rkorzuch said:
Tool worked perfect on my AT&T Tilt. Just installed the HTC ROM. Much nicer than the AT&T ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm now assuming the ROM contains the OS that is flashed on to the internal storage card as well, with it's own custom branding on the OS, own default application set, etc. As well as it's normal functioning with device communication etc. Is this safe to say this is how it works?
jon_k said:
One further question though,
Until several minutes ago I thought the ROM simply contained device drivers, etc. Stumbled upon this post however.
I'm now assuming the ROM contains the OS that is flashed on to the internal storage card as well, with it's own custom branding on the OS, own default application set, etc. As well as it's normal functioning with device communication etc. Is this safe to say this is how it works?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes jon_k,
The ROM contains the WM OS. That is what the cooks are changing primarily (more specifically, most of them change/add/delete the bundled apps that come as part of the shipped OSes). Most now are also expanding the RAM/storage portion of the ROM to allow for more usable storage. More and more cooks are also ripping out some of the MS bloat .
You should do a hard reset and then force a soft reset before it does the device customization part. You will end up with a Tilt with none of the AT&T bloat (game demos and such). If you don't like it, hard reset again and let it finish.
If you get real adventurous you can install HardSPL and one of the cooked ROMs (or the HTC one).
I am working on an application, akin to Droid Explorer, with my own tweaks and such.
Based on the idea of Droid Explorer, My Droid allows you to update your ROM, install/uninstall applications (APKs), take screen shots, view/interact with a screencast, input commands directly into the android command line, edit the file systems, browse files, etc.
UPDATE: It seems that AndoridSpin has changed their website layout for everything, which has caused me to need to rewrite the way I am parsing their page to be able to get the Download links for the ROMs. I will be working on getting this updated within the next few days.
Currently Working:
Install Single APK
Install Multiple APKs (Batch)
Backup (nandroid/nandroid+ext/bart (including backup name for bart)
Rebooting Phone (into recovery, or plain reboot)
Powering off phone
Partially Working/In Progress:
File and Directory Explorer
AndroidSpin Integration
Currently reads the ROM Database RSS Feed. Working on implementingthat data into the application.
Needed to be done:
Uninstalling APKs
Backing Up APKs (might remove due to 'theft' of paid apps)
Installing custom ROMs
The installation of Custom ROMs is going to be the big hurdle. Not because of the steps involved in the process though, thats fairly easy. But, I am going to include updating from the AndroidSpin ROM Database (as you can see in the menus). That will parse the RSS and Summary feeds of the ROM Datbase, and you can pick/choose the ROM of your liking. It will download it, and do the installation for you, including wiping the appropriate partitions and such.
As I progress further into development, I will also include things such as "screencast", to control your phone completely from the computer, as well as screenshots, debugging, etc.
I am hoping for an initial 'pre-pre-alpha' release shortly
Download: Not Yet Available
Any questions/comments/ideas/etc would be greatly appreciated!
Pre-requisites for installing?
Will there need to be anything installed prior to this package? Will this be a seamless process from download to altering system files? I have had issues with Droid Explorer and Windows Vista, and i could never get adb to work right.
It would be very nice to have an app like this while keeping it simple. For the people who cant figure out multiple installations/drivers and such.
This would (does) require that ADB be installed (with the correct drivers) for your system. ADB should also be in your %PATH% so that the application can utilize it. I will also add an option to specify the path for ADB so that you do not have to put it into your %PATH%
Looks great! If you'd like any help testing, I'd be glad to help.
Also, keep the ability to backup. If some users choose to use it for the wrong reasons, then that's a problem with their own morality. For the rest of us, constantly cooking roms and playing with new builds, being able to easily backup and restore all of our apps is a god-send.
It's nice to have a tool that does everything you need, not just some
Again, looks great so far
Hopefully yours will work with Vista 64bit. I have adb installed and working but Droid Explorer still doesnt work currently.
Joe333x said:
Hopefully yours will work with Vista 64bit. I have adb installed and working but Droid Explorer still doesnt work currently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not have a 64 bit machine to test this on, but seeing as it is being written strictly in .Net, and not using any 3rd party libraries, I do not see why it should be an issue.
If anyone knows of any complications that the .Net framework has with any certain functions on a 64 bit system, let me know, so I can attempt to program in appropriate work-arounds for the 64 bit crowd.
[email protected] said:
I have had issues with Droid Explorer and Windows Vista, and i could never get adb to work right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had these issues as well. My ADB was working just fine in Vista, then I installed Droid Explorer and ADB stopped working, it stopped recognizing that my device was there. Yet, ADB works just fine in my laptop.
It looks interesting I'm waiting for download link
jmhecker said:
I am working on an application, akin to Droid Explorer, with my own tweaks and such.
Features:
snip snip
Backing Up APKs (might remove due to 'theft' of paid apps)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you disable this feature...people will just find another way to steal paid apps(its not the hardest task).... just sayin
i say you keep it
PanPiotr said:
It looks interesting I'm waiting for download link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That might be a while. I have a long way to go to even consider an alpha release, heh.
jamezelle said:
if you disable this feature...people will just find another way to steal paid apps(its not the hardest task).... just sayin
i say you keep it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, y'all twisted my arm, I'll add that feature
Hmmm looks pretty promising, wouldnt mind tryin it, n am I the only 1 who thinks this is the wrong section? This should be in the Apps section
i also thought creating such app, i wanted to start working at it these days but it seems someone else already doing it, keep the good works, cheers
AsaSpades said:
Hmmm looks pretty promising, wouldnt mind tryin it, n am I the only 1 who thinks this is the wrong section? This should be in the Apps section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you're not only one, I'm also think this is wrong section.
Just a quick update:
Progress is coming along nicely. A lot of features are implemented as of now, but not enough to constitute an alpha or beta release.
What I am currently working on is the parsing of the AndroidSpin database (using their RSS feed). That progress is coming along great, just a few hiccups.
Any other feature requests besides what I have listed in the OP?
And for those complaining that this is in the wrong section, please clarify as to where you think it should be, so I can be sure that future posts go to there.
Okay, time is coming close for a Beta.
I have finished the AndroidSpin RSS portion. I have successfully used my application to browse the ROMs (categorized by phone) from the AndroidSpin RSS feed, selected a rom, downloaded it, copied it to the SD card, rebooted into recovery, performed a nandroid and bart backup, wiped all 3 items(system/dalvik/ext), installed the new ROM, and rebooted, without ever having to touch my phone.
I need to do some code cleanup in that area to streamline the process, but at least I know it works
After I streamline the ROM upgrade process, I am going to work on getting things like screenshots, screencasting, etc, working as they should. Nothing really difficult with any of that, but just time consuming to get it all pieced together properly.
I am hoping for a beta release sometime soon.
any progress?
looks good.. now will this be open source?
When I first got my G-tab I was baffled by all the instructions and the literally thousands of posts in the forum. Even now, I haven't been able to find exactly how (or why) I should update my kernel. That said, I have TNT Lite running and I love my g-tab. Exploring the possible uses and utilities on it provides hours of fun. Now - here is my question. I stumbled on some instructions for installing the ROM and I have used those same instructions to install several patches to the Rom. I see all this commentary on Clockwork, side loading, etc. and I wonder if I am missing something. Today I just installed the .25 patch for TNT-Lite. I downloaded the rar file, unzipped it on my PC to get the Recovery folder and the update.zip file. I plugged the g-tab into the pc and switched it to usb mode. Then I moved the old recover folder and update.zip to a folder (cautious me) and put the new ones in the root. I disconnected the usb and started the g-tab in recovery mode (holding the power and volume+ key. It rebooted, applied the patch and I was done. That seems simple enough. It would seem that this would work for switching roms, applying patches and probably even upgrading the kernel (If I knew where it was and why I should do it). Am I missing something? Everything seems to work.
Sounds like you got the basics ok.
The real main reason to update the kernal as i see it is to add things like driver support for devices like gps and g3, so on, also minor fixs. If your not using your gtab for anything like this you maybe happy to stay stock. But if you like myself like to use your gtab to surf with g3 or as a sweet gps, then thats what the kernal updates allow. Im sure others can correct me if ive got anything wrong or add to what ive said.
You got the basic steps right, but installing ClockWorkMod Recovery has a lot of benefits.
First, built in backup and recovery will save your skin if the gTab get "cranky".
Second, installing ROMs and/or updates saves you a few steps. From "tar" files (TnT-lite), extract the update.zip file to a folder (I created a folder named "xda", just an example) and name it after the version of ROM/update.
CWM will flash "*.zip" file. This way you can keep multiple ROMs/updates on the card and switch between them.
CWM lets you clear cache, wipe Data partition, clear Dalvik-cache (use caution there), fix permissions and so much more! It is a great tool.
Sent from my gTablet-TnT-Lite-4.2.5 using TapatalkPro
So now we peel back another layer
OK so now the question of multiple roms comes up. I am not clear about the role of the rom - can I switch roms and keep all of my apps and data intact? I'm thinking like changing style sheets on a web page - presentation is different but the underlying data is still the same? Is it that easy?
And... if I am doing that perhaps I need to "clear cache" or "wipe data partition" but although I like to investigate new things I'm not willing to just walk up and push the big red button without knowing what it is for. So why would I "clear" or "wipe" things?
I get the impression that I could switch between ROMs just like switching between browsers on a pc - today Chrome, tomorrow, Firefox and never Internet Exploder... Is that correct? It took me quite a while to get the market working and it still doesn't work optimally but I'd hate to undo all the work I've done getting the g-tab humming along by switching roms. Can I?
So - anyone care to expound on the structure and how it all hooks together? What parts can be swapped out and what parts form the foundation? I'd hate to brick the little guy in my ignorance.
One final note if you know and you answer - where did YOU learn about this. Is there a book somewhere to read?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
The Need for A Wiki
I'm in the same boat as enigma. I'm not even sure what ROM is an acronym for, though I think it means operating system. A wiki would be a big help for many people. I bet people would be glad to contribute.
Well, I don't know about Android book, especially about "hacking android book" , but this (and others) forum has plenty of reading material and guides. Not to mention people (a lot more knowledgeable and experienced than me) who will offer advice and lend a hand. And Google search comes in handy too.
Switching ROMs is almost like switching the OS, or a flavor of. Very much like switching between Linux distributions; the base OS is the same, but the overlay changes the user experience. Some things do change deep down inside, that's why is advisable to clear data.
Android, like Linux which it is based on, uses separate partitions for different parts of the OS, like boot, recovery, data, cache and user data. Plenty of write ups and discussions on the web on that.
So when flashing a ROM, you'll rewrite boot and system. Your user apps and data/preferences pertaining to those apps are stored in data partition, and since you are changing the 'OS', the apps need to be recompiled for it. Backup apps, like Titanium Backup, come extremely handy here: backup and restore apps AND appdata with a few clicks.
Backups are stored on sdcard, which is a lot like Linux /home directory, and do not get wiped during flash. Also the CWM (sometimes called Nandroid) backups are also stored there. A backup-of-the-backup is always a good habit (copy of /sdcard to your PC for safekeep).
This is just a quick rundown, hopefully that answered some of the questions.
There is a world of information available out there in "ether-world", Google is your friend.
[EDIT]:
Some links:
http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://lifehacker.com/#!5596108/how-to-choose-the-right-android-rom-for-you
and of course:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=841
(use the search on top of the screen)
Sent from my gTablet-TnT-Lite-4.2.5 using TapatalkPro
Doesn't my sticky on how to flash the roms help at all? I can try to make it clearer if you have suggestions.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=892090
TeamSpeed said:
Doesn't my sticky on how to flash the roms help at all? I can try to make it clearer if you have suggestions.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=892090
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, your Sticky is as clear as Florida sky.
I just installed Thumb Keyboard on my gTab last night and I guess I got carried away getting used to it!
Yes, I have found some very good step by steps (reflashed to vegan after reading that one). Step by steps are great but I 'd like to understand why I'm doing it. The market fix...I can follow the steps and it works but why? I wish I had time to research all these things but there are so many forums,so many posts to read! The explanation that did surface in this thread was great though. Thanks. I'll keep asking questions. There are a lot of smart people out there!
Hi guys!
I'm thinking about installing the 8.1 Preview on my RT, but the hold up for me is app data right now.
I'd like to save things like progress in games etc.
Where can I find those files on RT? They are not in the place I expected them (C:\Programs).
Can I use those files on 8.1 after I reinstalled the apps?
Thanks
When installing Windows 8.1 Preview, all your data is still there. Nothing user-like (like data, apps, etc.) is deleted during installation.
I strongly do recommend that you creata a recovery USB and verify that the data is on the usb device before installing 8.1.
I missed the last part and it hurt me rather bad
Create your own recovery image. (If its anything other than en-GB please let me know and I can upload the image for other users who dont have recovery info)
I moved all my files to my mSD card, did the tweaks that you have to do to get 8.1 on and then did a full reset, setup the RT then moved my data back.
Only game I have played so far is bubble blast and its remembered where I was up to, when you log back into your MS account that should bring back all of your mail account settings and so on.
Salutations folks,
Before you get ready to get your flame on, I'm NOT asking about the STATUS of a RT Windows 8.1 Jailbreak. I'm posting about jailbreaks in general. I'm from a linux/android background. I got an Asus Vivotab RT LTE (AT&T version) for a steal off 1Sale. Before I even looked into doing anything with my tablet, I updated it to 8.1. Then I finally got around to looking into running desktop apps on Windows RT (not knowing how it all worked with RT vs desktop), I ran into the issue of not being able to run them (duh, right?). Then I found out about jailbreaking. So.. do you HAVE to jailbreak to run desktop apps? As I understand it, we currently have to run 8.0 to jailbreak/run desktop apps, yes? Well.. I obtained the Asus recovery files to downgrade my 8.1 to 8.0. On a whim, I updated my 8.1 with the 8.1 big spring update (basicly 8.1.1). I seem to be able to run some of the ported desktop apps without any problem. Am I missing something? How'd my tablet manage that without having run the jailbreak? And jailbreak doesn't work on 8.1 anyways? Before anyone says I'm full of it.. (you can click the thumbnail for full pic)
(windows rt 8.1 with 8.1 spring update installed)
(windows rt 8.1 running desktop 7zip)
(windows rt 8.1 running desktop putty)
(windows rt 8.1 running desktop notepad++)
Can anyone clarify if I'm missing something or I've come across an anomaly or even a blessed relief?
Thanks.
This is sure amazing
1. Can you run *any* unsigned application or only a few work (and the rest throw signature errors?)
2. Check the status of Secure Boot in PowerShell. Run as admin, "Get-SecureBootPolicy", press enter (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj603043.aspx)
3. Could you detail exactly your process? I understand that you did the following:
(On 8.1) Run unsigned desktop app, fail with digital signature error.
(Downgrade) Downgrade to 8.0 -> (On 8.0) Run Jailbreak -> Run Desktop Apps and they work.
(Upgrade) Upgrade to Windows RT 8.1 (via Store?) -> Upgrade to 8.1.1 (Spring Update) via Windows Update -> Run Desktop Apps and they work (partly or all of them?)
4. I'm not sure if it'd be any useful, but perhaps you could look in your EFI system partition (mountvol S: /s) as there has been a previous report of Asus leaving debug tools in VivoTab RTs before (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2477285). If you could retrieve a "debug" version of Secure Boot Policy from your EFI partition then it means that Secure Boot has just disabled itself on your tablet. It's highly unlikely, however, since you weren't able to run desktop apps in your original 8.1 install...
jimmielin said:
This is sure amazing
1. Can you run *any* unsigned application or only a few work (and the rest throw signature errors?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only grabbed the ported Putty, 7zip and Notepad++ desktop apps as those were the only ones that I was needing.. Oh I recently grabbed the FileZilla one too. All ran without any problems and never got any signature errors. Hell.. even my 7zip integrated into the shell and replaced archive icons with 7zip archive icons and opens my archives by default with the desktop app. Were there any particular applications you wanted me to try so that I can see if I can replicate any signature errors?
jimmielin said:
Check the status of Secure Boot in PowerShell. Run as admin, "Get-SecureBootPolicy", press enter (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj603043.aspx)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SecureBoot is enabled and it displays a Publisher GUID. Confirm-SecureBootUEFI confirms SecureBoot is enabled too.
jimmielin said:
3. Could you detail exactly your process? I understand that you did the following:
(On 8.1) Run unsigned desktop app, fail with digital signature error.
(Downgrade) Downgrade to 8.0 -> (On 8.0) Run Jailbreak -> Run Desktop Apps and they work.
(Upgrade) Upgrade to Windows RT 8.1 (via Store?) -> Upgrade to 8.1.1 (Spring Update) via Windows Update -> Run Desktop Apps and they work (partly or all of them?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm
- Received clean OEM install Vivotab RT LTE with RT 8.0
- Upgrade to Windows RT 8.1 via Store
- (attempted to run some ported desktop apps, received error)
- was going to downgrade back to 8.0 after getting Asus recovery files but instead..
- Upgrade to RT 8.1.1 (Spring Update) via Windows Update
- (attempted to run some ported desktop apps, ran successfully, no errors)
NOTE: Not once had I ever gotten around to downloading or installing the Jailbreak. Is there some way to confirm if I have the jailbreak installed at startup or something?
jimmielin said:
4. I'm not sure if it'd be any useful, but perhaps you could look in your EFI system partition (mountvol S: /s) as there has been a previous report of Asus leaving debug tools in VivoTab RTs before (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2477285). If you could retrieve a "debug" version of Secure Boot Policy from your EFI partition then it means that Secure Boot has just disabled itself on your tablet. It's highly unlikely, however, since you weren't able to run desktop apps in your original 8.1 install...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I copied a SecureBootDebugPolicy.p7b (dated 02/13/2014 @ 3:19PM) file from there. From what I was reading, I take it that's a good thing? (click thumbnail for full pic)
SecureBootDebugPolicy in the certificate manager tool
what is the icon that next on the left of action center (bottom-right, triangle flag) and at the right side of OneDrive?
hisoft said:
what is the icon that next on the left of action center (bottom-right, triangle flag) and at the right side of OneDrive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB/SD eject (I have SD card I keep in the slot for extra storage)
thesawolf said:
USB/SD eject (I have SD card I keep in the slot for extra storage)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good job ASUS :good:
If you were able to retrieve a SecureBootDebugPolicy.p7b that is functional, it probably means that there was a Debug policy on your device at some point? (ref. Original Thread on ASUS). I've just looked into my Surface RT and there's a file with that name too, but it cannot be opened (it's simply an empty 0-byte file) and probably you're another lucky one who has a debug policy. (However it can't be explained why Get-SecureBootPolicy shows that you're using a production policy? Does it show the production policy GUID that TechNet says is normal, or something else? Policies don't disable secure boot, Confirm-SecureBootPolicy showing true is perfectly normal even in debug.)
Would it be possible to share this SecureBootDebugPolicy.p7b and then we'd able to see if there is someone else with a VivoTab RT that could test it? I assume it's locked to your device but it's always worth a try.
Could anyone else with experience working with Secure Boot look into this? While it's probably a lucky isolated case, it's nevertheless promising...
Just to double check: does anybody else have a Vivo Tab RT with 8.1u1 they could check this against? It would be amazing / hilarious if the update disabled signature enforcement. The question would then be whether that was Microsoft's idea or Asus's...
Oh, and one other quick test: grab a built-in program (CMD.EXE or Notepad.EXE, for example) and make a copy of it to somewhere you can edit it (like the desktop). Open the file in a hex editor (if needed, copy it off the tablet first) and change something unimportant, like a few characters in a string (not a file path, more like "is not recognized as an internal or external command..." or some such thing) to some other value that has the same number of characters. Save the file and try running it on the tablet again. The idea is that this will be an EXE with an *invalid* signature (as opposed to just being unsigned) and that would be very surprising if it works... but this whole thing is surprising!
GoodDayToDie said:
Just to double check: does anybody else have a Vivo Tab RT with 8.1u1 they could check this against? It would be amazing / hilarious if the update disabled signature enforcement. The question would then be whether that was Microsoft's idea or Asus's...
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Click to collapse
Tried it on a VivoTab RT LTE (AT&T) with u1 -- ran 7z ARM and it failed on signature verification.
I would never run another update on that device. Don't want to patch up the botched update.
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I wonder if there's some way to take a full image of your current installation (possibly using a backup utility?) that can be restored onto other peoples' tablets. Even better would be if the relevant bits could be extracted from your image and carried over to other tablets (such as Surface RTs, Surface 2s, Lumia 2520s, etc.) but that may be harder. Still, worth investigating more...
Was it new or used when you got it? And if it was used, is it possible the original owner JB'd it and it stuck through the update?
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GoodDayToDie said:
I wonder if there's some way to take a full image of your current installation (possibly using a backup utility?) that can be restored onto other peoples' tablets. Even better would be if the relevant bits could be extracted from your image and carried over to other tablets (such as Surface RTs, Surface 2s, Lumia 2520s, etc.) but that may be harder. Still, worth investigating more...
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Click to collapse
Should be able to use dism.exe. Not sure if it will capture the online image, but you can definitely use it in recovery mode. Should be able to capture with new-windowsimage too. Going to try it out real quick and report back... I would choke puppies for this image.
---------- Post added at 11:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------
Okay it you can't capture the online image. You'll need to have a USB drive with enough space to capture the whole thing. Make sure you either suspend bitlocker or make sure you have a copy of the recovery key handy (It's 48 decimal digits).
Boot to the recovery partition (it doesn't matter if it's on the local storage or a USB key - it can even be the same USB key you will copy the disk image to if you have enough free space).
Choose language, troubleshoot, advanced, command prompt (I think - point is, you want a command prompt).
Verify the drive letters are what you expect them to be (internal storage is c, usb disk is d, ramdisk is x).
run: dism /capture-image /ImageFile:d:\winrt81u1.wim /CaptureDir:c:\ /Name:WinRT81U1vivotab
Let it finish. It will take a while. Probably a long time since it's writing to USB 2.0 flash storage. Bet on an hour. You probably want to make sure it's plugged in to power (but you're not writing anything to the local storage, so you won't break anything if it goes dead).
Upload that wim file to skydrive and share it with me!
Sjflowerhorn said:
Was it new or used when you got it? And if it was used, is it possible the original owner JB'd it and it stuck through the update?
Sent from my HTC6600LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
That is impossible, the 8.0 jailbreak was performed in memory and it not written to the disk.
Toxickill said:
That is impossible, the 8.0 jailbreak was performed in memory and it not written to the disk.
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Click to collapse
Gotcha, I haven't JB'd mine yet, so I have no idea how it works. Apparently I'm Windows ShmeShmarted and can't make a bootable flash drive that contains the rollback. And coming from android devices where everything sticks except for some very select mods/devices I just figured it might be possible.
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Sjflowerhorn said:
And coming from android devices where everything sticks except for some very select mods/devices I just figured it might be possible.
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Click to collapse
Believe me, that's what all RT owners would WANT to have. Although there's many reasons to jailbreak a device, I personally prefer feeling like I've gained full control of hardware I own. The in-memory jailbreak was good, but it didn't have that satisfying feeling of permanence you often get with an Android rooting / OS replacement.
southbird said:
Believe me, that's what all RT owners would WANT to have. Although there's many reasons to jailbreak a device, I personally prefer feeling like I've gained full control of hardware I own. The in-memory jailbreak was good, but it didn't have that satisfying feeling of permanence you often get with an Android rooting / OS replacement.
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Click to collapse
Until the carrier gets to your device and locks the bootloader (AT&T)
I actually preferred the in-memory jailbreak in many ways. It meant we couldn't modify system files or run unsigned code for a couple minutes after boot, but it also meant we could trivially easily "un-jailbreak" and we could install updates with no fear of them destroying anything. Even the huge 8.1 update, which broke the jailbreak *process*, could be started on a device which was already jailbroken without causing any harm (unlike, say, many iOS jailbreaks).
I agree. I liked that the 8.0 jailbreak wasn't permanent but also exceedingly simple to install at boot. It meant that sending my Surface RT back to my Microsoft under warranty had no problems at all.
Lumen_Melano said:
I agree. I liked that the 8.0 jailbreak wasn't permanent but also exceedingly simple to install at boot. It meant that sending my Surface RT back to my Microsoft under warranty had no problems at all.
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Click to collapse
The in-memory Jailbreak is great when you hard brick your Surface and take it to the Microsoft Store. They just gave me a new one with no problems at all.