Question about ROM flashes.
I'm actually an IT professional in the work related field, so any basics need not be explained. I am still new to Windows Mobile devices and would like to know what this means for my phone.
The way I view a "ROM" is as a firmware, or static programming on a chip. Maybe even a CMOS imprint. In this field, such things are semi-permanent at a component level. For instance, you don't download a .cab file to upgrade your bios (as many "ROMS" seem to come in .cab files), you boot your system on a floppy and run an application that flashes your CMOS with the new image.
What would we assume the "ROM" is on Windows mobile phones? Is it a chip hidden inside of the phone, separate from the primary memory? Is it simply considered all that is in the \windows directory? I don't see why .cab files can flash the ROM.
This leads me to the question, if you do a hard-reset, I assume there's secondary memory on the phone with the \windows folder and all the factory defaults. The memory must serve no other purpose other than to harbor these defaults in the need of a hard-reset. Does flashing your "ROM" also apply changes to this chip containing the default OS image?
Hi, here a short description:
ROM:
The ROM is quite similar to a computers harddisk AND RAM (All-In-One), but the OS has to and additional software can be integrated via flashing and is therefor fixed. All data you flash will stay in the ROM after a Hard-Reset.
Some ROMs also contain a Bootloader-ROM and/or a Radio-ROM
Bootloader-ROM:
This is quite similar to a computer's BIOS
Radio-ROM:
The firmware to your PDA's built-in connection devices (e.g. GSM, Bluetooth, WLAN,...)
Hard-Reset:
A Hard-Reset is similar to a comlete reinstallation. Some computer vendors add a recovery CD/DVD to their products. On a Windows Mobile Device the Recovery-disc is integrated in the ROM and will be automatically installed during a hard reset.
And to complete this one ;-)...
Soft-Reset:
A Soft-Reset is similar to a cold restart of your computer. By the way, there's no possibility to "shutdown" Windows Mobile like you are used to with Windows XP or Vista.
Oh, and you cannot install a ROM using a cab-file. Cab-files are "executables" to install additional software. They can only be installed on the device. ROM's have to be installed from a connected computer (There's also a resolution to install a ROM from a Storage Card, but i am not used to it and cannot give you more information about this. But you'll find it, searching in the forum).
jon_k said:
Question about ROM flashes.
I'm actually an IT professional in the work related field, so any basics need not be explained. I am still new to Windows Mobile devices and would like to know what this means for my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me Too.
jon_k said:
The way I view a "ROM" is as a firmware, or static programming on a chip. Maybe even a CMOS imprint. In this field, such things are semi-permanent at a component level. For instance, you don't download a .cab file to upgrade your bios (as many "ROMS" seem to come in .cab files), you boot your system on a floppy and run an application that flashes your CMOS with the new image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is firmware on the chip, but like a BIOS, it exists after the phone is off, the battery removed, etc. The stuff in the cab files that you install doesn't. Well, let me retract that. The stuff in the cabs and your data stays there after a soft reset, and removing the battery (at least for a short while, YMMV), but my experience has not been that the data stays there after the battery is out for a while (again, YMMV).
jon_k said:
What would we assume the "ROM" is on Windows mobile phones? Is it a chip hidden inside of the phone, separate from the primary memory? Is it simply considered all that is in the \windows directory? I don't see why .cab files can flash the ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is a chip. Most of the time, they don't use discreet transistors for these time of things. They are prohibitively large and expensive to solder together to make the memory, not to mention power hungry.
To answer your second question, if you peruse the various ROMs here, you will see the following:
Base operating system: This is a common denominator. This is Windows CE/ Mobile edition, WM6, whatever you want to call it.
Additional CABs: This is the flavor the chef uses in his/her kitchen to make the ROM do what appeals to them (and their audience). These can techniclaly be split out and individually installed if the cook puts them as a cab file that you copy to the phone and install from that file downloaded.
jon_k said:
This leads me to the question, if you do a hard-reset, I assume there's secondary memory on the phone with the \windows folder and all the factory defaults. The memory must serve no other purpose other than to harbor these defaults in the need of a hard-reset. Does flashing your "ROM" also apply changes to this chip containing the default OS image?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What will happen when you hard reset is the ROM that was flashed to the phone will be as it was when you first burned it to the phone. Here's an example: You buy the Kaiser marketed as an AT&T Tilt on 1/1/08, use if for 6 months, and on 7/1/08, you hard reset it. It will be the same as when you turned it on for the first time.
Another case: You buy the phone on 1/1/08, and download a ROM from Dutty, or whomever, and you carefully follow the noob instructions (like I did), and flash it on 1/2/08. You do a hard reset on 7/1/08, and now the phone is the same as when it was last upgraded, so it will be the 1/2/08 version that it goes to.
Clear?
Hope this helps, and if there are others that want to correct me, please do so.
Fairly good explanations.
It makes a bit more sense now.
I'll post my new understanding of the control structure and functionality based on everyones post above. If you want to confirm, deny, or alter any of my perceived facts I'd appreciate it! I just like to know a basic understanding of the device functions internally so I can be educated when tinkering with things.
The radio ROM = ROM that controls the radio. Contains frequency ranges/broadcast tweaks for different locales, probably if tweaked can also allow illegal higher wattage transmission power. Some interesting (and surely FCC illegal) hacks are probably available here.
The device ROM - the upper level functions of the phone. Probably has support for the type of WIFI and bluetooth adapter you have. Has to have compatibility to interface with the radio ROM for phone functionality to be supported. Also is what interfaces with the GPS radio, probably the phone, links the keyboard to the OS, etc. Probably handles API between radio ROM and Windows mobile?
The Windows Mobile OS, which is the operating system itself. It communicates with the ROM, and is limited by what the ROM is limited by. Any .cab's or software retrieved here will enhance the OS, nothing more. A hard reset will bring the OS back to it's original state. (Though ROM upgrades remain.) Any cabs installed or changes to \windows in general made will be lost during a hard reset. It restores all content under \windows to it's default state.
Sounds about right with my new understanding. I think for now I'll avoid flashing the ROM. I'm pretty content with modifying the Windows registry hive since it can easily be restored with a hard reset if I bork up a registry key. Unlike the registry, a ROM if a member here misses something (I doubt they're working with much device documentation) a small coding mistake by them could ruin the phone.
Maybe I'll be more prone to start flashing ROM's if there's a way to extract the current ROM for my phone. Perhaps I can update the ROM through ATT or HTC, and use a packet sniffer to sniff the location (likely http URL) of the ROM file.
One further question though,
Until several minutes ago I thought the ROM simply contained device drivers, etc. Stumbled upon this post however.
rkorzuch said:
Tool worked perfect on my AT&T Tilt. Just installed the HTC ROM. Much nicer than the AT&T ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm now assuming the ROM contains the OS that is flashed on to the internal storage card as well, with it's own custom branding on the OS, own default application set, etc. As well as it's normal functioning with device communication etc. Is this safe to say this is how it works?
jon_k said:
One further question though,
Until several minutes ago I thought the ROM simply contained device drivers, etc. Stumbled upon this post however.
I'm now assuming the ROM contains the OS that is flashed on to the internal storage card as well, with it's own custom branding on the OS, own default application set, etc. As well as it's normal functioning with device communication etc. Is this safe to say this is how it works?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes jon_k,
The ROM contains the WM OS. That is what the cooks are changing primarily (more specifically, most of them change/add/delete the bundled apps that come as part of the shipped OSes). Most now are also expanding the RAM/storage portion of the ROM to allow for more usable storage. More and more cooks are also ripping out some of the MS bloat .
You should do a hard reset and then force a soft reset before it does the device customization part. You will end up with a Tilt with none of the AT&T bloat (game demos and such). If you don't like it, hard reset again and let it finish.
If you get real adventurous you can install HardSPL and one of the cooked ROMs (or the HTC one).
Related
Is there instructions on creating a post-flash (or hard reset) install script? I'd like to have it run the cingular WAP cab, and maybe a couple others. I think I've been all over, but haven't seen anything...
Thanks!
Also - does anyone have a package or cab for camera 3.3???
Hi Matt... there are a couple of options...
First off, you could go the route that Faria does in his kitchen - effectively an Extended ROM folder under Windows. When the ROM install has finished and you've done the screen align, it runs the Extended ROM contents - just like the customisations you get in most operator ROMs. The advantage of doing it from a subfolder under Windows is that it works for G4 users as well as G3.
The other alternative is to actually flash your Extended ROM (this is what I've done, as mine is G3).
With the right files in Windows and Windows\Startup (CheckAutoRun.exe and CheckAutoRun.lnk respectively) and the registry entries set up for the appropriate location (I can tell you what these need to be), it will run no problem.
Is this what you're looking for? Faria also has a nice couple of utils that run during customisation and let you choose which operator's settings (GPRS and MMS) you wish to install. I guess these just run the appropriate CAB file based on your choice.
I am happy to help you set this up if it would be of assistance, having spent the last couple of days trying to get all this stuff up and running.
JoelC said:
Hi Matt... there are a couple of options...
First off, you could go the route that Faria does in his kitchen - effectively an Extended ROM folder under Windows. When the ROM install has finished and you've done the screen align, it runs the Extended ROM contents - just like the customisations you get in most operator ROMs. The advantage of doing it from a subfolder under Windows is that it works for G4 users as well as G3.
The other alternative is to actually flash your Extended ROM (this is what I've done, as mine is G3).
With the right files in Windows and Windows\Startup (CheckAutoRun.exe and CheckAutoRun.lnk respectively) and the registry entries set up for the appropriate location (I can tell you what these need to be), it will run no problem.
Is this what you're looking for? Faria also has a nice couple of utils that run during customisation and let you choose which operator's settings (GPRS and MMS) you wish to install. I guess these just run the appropriate CAB file based on your choice.
I am happy to help you set this up if it would be of assistance, having spent the last couple of days trying to get all this stuff up and running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It sounds like your first point is what I was looking for - but up till now I've avoided adding / manipulating the extended rom to prevent issues related to it's use. I guess I'll have to cross that bridge sooner than later!
Is there a "howto" anywhere on it? I'd like to add the option for users to select post installation packages to run, in a nice and "foolproof" way - such as themes, WAP cabs, or whatever. Kinda like "drop your post install cabs in this folder" and it'll go ahead and add them during the rom build, then execute the install after flashing.
Thanks!
mattk_r said:
It sounds like your first point is what I was looking for - but up till now I've avoided adding / manipulating the extended rom to prevent issues related to it's use. I guess I'll have to cross that bridge sooner than later!
Is there a "howto" anywhere on it? I'd like to add the option for users to select post installation packages to run, in a nice and "foolproof" way - such as themes, WAP cabs, or whatever. Kinda like "drop your post install cabs in this folder" and it'll go ahead and add them during the rom build, then execute the install after flashing.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
search lol i'll try and dig it up for you since i should probably do the same thing
try this of course editing it to where you want it to point:
Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm]
"AutoRunCFG"="\\Extended_ROM\\config.txt"
"AutoRun"="\\Extended_ROM\\autorun.exe"
notyourdaddy said:
search lol i'll try and dig it up for you since i should probably do the same thing
try this of course editing it to where you want it to point:
Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm]
"AutoRunCFG"="\\Extended_ROM\\config.txt"
"AutoRun"="\\Extended_ROM\\autorun.exe"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just found this link that has an extended rom in it. It makes a lot of sense, especially the txt file that directs the installation and then initiates a reset. Getting warmer!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=309922
So here's what I'm thinking - just initial thoughts:
Have a folder with the base applications that are used every time like AutoRun.exe.
The user places the cab(s) in the "add files to ext rom" folder.
They run an exe that reads the directory file contents, verifies file type, copies the files to the extended rom folder, and displays the list. I'd write it in VB, since I'm most comfortable with file system operations in that language...
They change the list based on the order they want them installed using up and down arrows to sort priority.
The click OK, and it creates the config.txt file, including all necessary commands such as reset and whatnot.
That way when they build, it's all good to go.
Any thoughts?
Slightly off topic but does anyone have a .CAB for TomTom6 (or know how to edit/make one) that doesn't require user input during the installation?
I am not looking for a hacked version of TomTom, just how to prevent it asking me where to install. .CABs that run from the Extended ROM can't ask for user input or it will crash the extended ROM installation as we know; I just don't know how to edit the ttn.cab to stop it asking.
Thanks
Andy
Hi Matt,
It does sound like the first option is the best - it's also the only way to get G4 compatibility. I think your idea to write a VB app is a good one - let the user choose which CABs to install to ExtRom, but I think u need to be very clear what you want to achieve. As this `ExtRom` is not actually in the proper extended Rom, but just a folder under Windows, you gain nothing really by installing programs from here, best just keeping it for operator specific settings and such.
The other issue with extended Rom installations, of any type, is that the config file must run to completion. if you put in cab files that require user input, the install will fail (at least from a proper extRom, maybe ok in this scenario, I don't know); likewise cabs that require or initiate a soft reset will cause an ExtRom install to crash. So, this sorts of limits what cabs can be used. mine puts in personal reg settings; no operator settings as I use wifi not gprs or mms.
Also - and I hope I'm not out of line here, or misunderstanding you - Faria has something that does exactly what u need in his fake ExtRom... u cld always ask him nicely for use of it, or r u looking forward to the coding?
My only other thought is the extra support burden a complex fake extrom scenario would generate, especially if ppl don't understand its purpose and stick stuff in that causes problems...
I hope this has made some sense - past my bedtime and I'm knackered LOL. Just my 2 cents, y'know?
Good work and all the best
JoelC said:
Hi Matt,
It does sound like the first option is the best - it's also the only way to get G4 compatibility. I think your idea to write a VB app is a good one - let the user choose which CABs to install to ExtRom, but I think u need to be very clear what you want to achieve. As this `ExtRom` is not actually in the proper extended Rom, but just a folder under Windows, you gain nothing really by installing programs from here, best just keeping it for operator specific settings and such.
The other issue with extended Rom installations, of any type, is that the config file must run to completion. if you put in cab files that require user input, the install will fail (at least from a proper extRom, maybe ok in this scenario, I don't know); likewise cabs that require or initiate a soft reset will cause an ExtRom install to crash. So, this sorts of limits what cabs can be used. mine puts in personal reg settings; no operator settings as I use wifi not gprs or mms.
Also - and I hope I'm not out of line here, or misunderstanding you - Faria has something that does exactly what u need in his fake ExtRom... u cld always ask him nicely for use of it, or r u looking forward to the coding?
My only other thought is the extra support burden a complex fake extrom scenario would generate, especially if ppl don't understand its purpose and stick stuff in that causes problems...
I hope this has made some sense - past my bedtime and I'm knackered LOL. Just my 2 cents, y'know?
Good work and all the best
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's really good info, because I'm climbing the learning curve as fast as I can here to get a good grasp on what the extended rom is, as well as how to use it. I appreciate the conditional warnings... better to know ahead of time than find out following a problem.
I'd rather use the true extended rom (as I understand it anyway), so I don't loose any additional space for the BuildOS programs. That is, assuming the extended rom is a seperate memory location than the base...
In another thread, someone is going to post that tool. I'm really interested in how it works.
If I can get all the concepts together, I hope to get a solid tool that will improve functionality in the ROM, without adding complexity or trouble... and I greatly appreciate the help!
Interesting thread...guys, you just gave me some new ideas.
Before that...there's one thing that's bothering me...
Can we use ExtendedRom on a G4 or not...lol I thought not, until me an Boto made a clean one from a G4 ExtRom and when Boto flashed it it worked , and he has a G4. Why we always say that we don't use an Extended Rom for G4 users ?
Normaly, a G4 should/would brick when flashing IPL/SPL not Extended Rom, am I right ?
We are shrinking the OS space to integrate features of the ExtendedRom in order to all people use it but is it that true ?
Ok, now back to my idea .. I want that in my next rom to include an extended rom, of course and make it that way so when you first start your PDA, it will act like when installing windows on the PC , asking you which apps or what options you want to use. I think i can manage to do that...still the question remains ...will G4 users be able to use it ?
Sorry for the delay writing back... I've been over in the G4 subforum trying to find out if they can flash Extended Rom. Some ppl have reported success using Faria's tutorial. Hopefully this is the case - what u said about IPL/SPL flashing is right, this seems to be a real problem, but if u can flash a radio-only Rom, why not Extended Rom?
What did u and Boto flash onto his G4? Blank Extrom or a cooked one?
Perhaps what we need is a guinea pig to try this out for us...!
JoelC said:
Sorry for the delay writing back... I've been over in the G4 subforum trying to find out if they can flash Extended Rom. Some ppl have reported success using Faria's tutorial. Hopefully this is the case - what u said about IPL/SPL flashing is right, this seems to be a real problem, but if u can flash a radio-only Rom, why not Extended Rom?
What did u and Boto flash onto his G4? Blank Extrom or a cooked one?
Perhaps what we need is a guinea pig to try this out for us...!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I took the Ext Rom from the Wizard Love Rom and i edited the config.txt and deleted cabs ...that's it
Well, if it flashed OK... sounds like it might be usable after all But tell me, is Boto's G4 CID locked or unlocked? It's all very uncertain, but some of the G4 posts lead me to believe this may make a difference
ADB100 said:
Slightly off topic but does anyone have a .CAB for TomTom6 (or know how to edit/make one) that doesn't require user input during the installation?
I am not looking for a hacked version of TomTom, just how to prevent it asking me where to install. .CABs that run from the Extended ROM can't ask for user input or it will crash the extended ROM installation as we know; I just don't know how to edit the ttn.cab to stop it asking.
Thanks
Andy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I did for TomTom is install as normal and then copy the Navigator directory and My Documents\TomTomto my storage card where the maps, postcodes etc. are located. After any ROM upgrade all I need to do is create a shortcut in the start menu pointing at \Storage Card\Navigator\TomTom Navigator.exe No user input needed other than to pair the bluetooth gps and define a serial port.Hope this helps, it has worked for me after every change in ROM which has been quite a lot recently.
wizzzard said:
All I did for TomTom is install as normal and then copy the Navigator directory and My Documents\TomTomto my storage card where the maps, postcodes etc. are located. After any ROM upgrade all I need to do is create a shortcut in the start menu pointing at \Storage Card\Navigator\TomTom Navigator.exe No user input needed other than to pair the bluetooth gps and define a serial port.Hope this helps, it has worked for me after every change in ROM which has been quite a lot recently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that but it isn't what I was really after.... I am just trying to automate everything. I have flashed my ROM that many times recently and going through the install of TomTom each time is a bit of a pain. I have got a couple of .CABs in the Extended ROM OK and these work fine, I just thought it would be nice if I could get TomTom in there as well.
Andy
I didn't want this to turn into a "how-to" thread, but I'm still scratching for hard info on the extended rom, and as many questions out there, it might be a good one to clarify some details...
As I understand it now, there's two forms of "extended ROM":
1. The true extended rom "similar to the radio ROM"
There is some "trigger" that runs the contents of the extended rom, such as AutoRun.exe?
2. The 'psuedo' extended rom that is basically a post install script to run cabs.
The contents of the folder under windows are run from a trigger that resides in the startup folder - similar to a runonce in Windows on first boot?
Does this sound close?
Also, where does the 'true' extended rom reside? Does it use the portion of memory reserved for the OS, or is there another portion just for it? (so if by adding applications to the extended rom, your available storage memory will remain unchanged - less the installed application?)
I'm presuming then by the 'psuedo' extended rom, that it does consume ROM space, but simplifies post-flash cab installations - assuming you follow the rules...
From what I see, by using the 'psuedo' ER, you waste space by keeping the installation files in addition to the installed application files.
If I'm wasting space and time by asking these questions and you know of a good extended rom tutorial, please direct me to it. I have spend some time tonight searching, but a definitive guide still eludes me... Thanks!
Sorry, coming into this thread late, but you have seen this thread, right?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=968417
While it may not directly answer some of the questions, the tools and info in the tutorial may shed some light on this subject (or give you a direction to start digging further).
mfrazzz said:
Sorry, coming into this thread late, but you have seen this thread, right?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=968417
While it may not directly answer some of the questions, the tools and info in the tutorial may shed some light on this subject (or give you a direction to start digging further).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OMG, I'm getting senile... I came across this months ago, but at that point didn't know what I was looking at... and didn't see it just now in any stickies... thanks man.
mattk_r said:
OMG, I'm getting senile... I came across this months ago, but at that point didn't know what I was looking at... and didn't see it just now in any stickies... thanks man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, never figured out why that one was never made a sticky. I just know to go look at Faria's sig and it (and a few other good links) are in there
Greetings everyone! First off, thank you for a wealth of information on this site as well as the coolest apps and ROMs. I'm glad I came across this site.
I've been trying out different ROMs by different developers. They're all great! I feel like a dude driving a different sports car every week! My question is, how can I create a "disk image" of my current setup? Is there a program for WM6 like PQDI or Norton Ghost?
Thats a good question... this is what we need... than ill test more roms ^^
This part is tricky.
There are two major backup utilities: Sprite and SPB backup.
Trouble is that while they both create a full backup including registry, messages and apps you can not deploy this backup on a different ROM (specially if it is different AKU version or different OS 5 / 6) without serios side effects.
This is because some internal structures (like PIM.VOL) and registry settings are different in these ROMS.
Thats why it is recommended that you backup your contacts, emails and stuff to outlook then sync and reinstall all the apps on the new ROM.
Alternatively, both apps allow you to manually select what is backed up. You can play with that option to only backup "generic" stuff.
Understood.
What I was hoping to find is a utility that takes a snapshot of my current setup and creates one file, or one EXE. It's kinda like swapping hard drives with each having a different OS's. I'd have one "favorite" ROM though (with my personal settings, including keyboard layout, ringtones, contacts, WiFi key info, voice commands, etc) and if I'm done testing someone else's ROM, I can reload that 'favorite' one to continue on with my day, all with one flash.
problem is that many difference between roms also is what registrys are set to what
so if you take that with you some optimezes could be lost
Really?
I've used an old program called PQDI (just like Norton Ghost) and what I'd do is after doing a fresh load of OS on my PC, I'd start to load some of my favorite software like Premiere (I do video editing) and Sonar (I also do music). Then, I create a disk image of my hard drive. Months later, after installing tweaks and stuff, and if for some reason (and this has happened before) I screw up my registry, get a virus, or my PC starts to run slow because of junk that have collected over the months, I'd reload that image and the very next time I turn on my PC, it would have a fresh load of OS with Premiere and Sonar, and nothing else, it's just as if I had bought a new computer.
I was hoping it would be the same on my 8525. There is a feature right now called "Clear Storage" (installed on every WM device) that clears up every things and reloads the ROM. But that erases all the tweaks you've done and starts you off with a fresh load of ROM. :/
Ok, there is one thing you don't seem to be clear on:
On PC stuff you install and OS all can be treated the same because they all reside on an HD and if you can take and image of that you can restore it all whenever you want.
But on devices like the 8525 this is completely different. The ROM on each device is stored and encrypted in a different matter, and needs to be written in a special way so there can be no "generic" tool for ROM flashing. This is also why there are no apps that take complete image of a device (ROM + user apps and data).
Thanks for the clarification. It would have been great if there was, huh? That would make beta testing and reporting much more efficient. Oh well. I'll move on. Thanks again! (Hmm...now what ROM should I try next...)
I just got my first pocket pc in the mail yesterday. First off, I absolutely love it. I got the wizard - it was a very good price on ebay for the features, even if it is a couple years old (I think?). Regardless, it's a huge upgrade from a standard cell phone for a small price.
I've never used one before nor used windows mobile. It came with WM5 and I've managed to unlock and update it to WM6. I read somewhere that TNT.1437 was a stable release, so I installed TNT.1437 with TouchFlo. It seems fine, except I still get clocknot.exe notification every time I start (even after disabling auto update for time).
My main question is this - is TNT.1437 still a good release or is it getting old? If I remember correctly the thread hadn't had posts in a while. Is the newer TNT release near the top of the forum stable?
I am mainly looking for a stable release that won't mess up my calls. Even WM5 had huge improvements and features over my basic phone I had, so having the 'newest' software isn't really needed (although I don't mind it if it's stable).
Anyways, I'm just wondering if I should stick with 1437 or upgrade to something else before I start diving into it and installing my own apps and setting the phone up. If I do stick with it (or upgrade and still have the issue), is there a way to get rid of that clocknot.exe notification besides turning auto-update for time off, which doesn't seem to have worked? I also installed the trial version of memmaid as that was recommended in the same thread, it didn't find any notification issues.
Thanks in advance.
1st thing to remember is that it's not a smartphone. it's a pocket pc. Smartphone apps won't work on this (most at least) and vice versa although there are a few.
Smartphone's don't have touch screens.
My Experience
Here's the thread containing the latest TNT ROM and a lot of info on it:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=367534
I'm using v1 of the last build and am having lockups on occation when the PDA is in standby. That said a lot of the posts indicate that sometimes you have to flash a rom several times or downgrade to a stock rom first before weird things go away. There was another post that suggested doing a soft reset followed by a hard reset after each rom is loaded to avoid rom instability problems. Also there was another post I read that said stability problems can be solved by using a specific utility (sorry name excapes me)that backs up the rom you just installed to your memory card and then reloading it from the memory card. None of this makes sense but I'm going to try these things if I can't get my lockup problem to go away with the latest build of TNT.
As for the notifications problem I fixed my through trial and error. Appearently there is a notifications queue or database that gets all screwed up. There are many tools out there (I used one called CheckNotifications) that let you fix the queue but in doing so you may break activesync and other automation. If found an app (FixASRunAt) that puts the neccessary entries back. I don't recall my exact procces for getting it working right but I do recall it took several passes at using both apps.
Good luck with your upgrade!
Welcome, I've had my wizard for two years flashed 5 or 6 roms, "its right" make good stable rom packed with useful software. I would suggest you read lots about any rom you install as if there are any problems its reported and usually fixed in rom thread.
If I might suggest Jaguar 4.0 rom, it is very stable and only a few programs leaving lots of space for you to test and add programs of your choice, you will want to try different programs. Some you stick with others will not be of use to you, the fun is in trying new things.
If you feel a little braver try the rom in my signature, I've had a few teething troubles but nothing major, anyway I can always change back.
Keep operator settings and instructions to hand, to make it easier when flashing, I also keep a list of installed apps so it is easier next time to remember what I use most often.
Finally welcome, there's now turning back now, it's addictive you know!
It most certainly is addictive.
Thanks for the tips thus far. I have one major question left - seeing as how there are so many ROMS out there, should I ever want to change to another one due to problems with the current one, or just to experience it, is there an easy way to keep program data and settings saved? There are certain third party programs that I would like to keep on the unit regardless of which ROM is running, so I'd like to be able to simply install them again and restore them to the state they were at with the previous ROM. I'm not sure how WM software works.
So far with TNT.1437 installed, I've just had a few problems, some of which may simply be the fact I'm new to WM and don't know what I am doing. It froze once or twice but that was it. It tends to run fine. The biggest issue I am wrestling with now is wifi connection. It always attempts to connect to previous wifi signals even when I am in a different location. If it would work as a laptop does (connect to a NEARBY wifi signal that you have provided a key for) then that would be great. But it keeps trying to connect to the campus network when I'm at my apartment, so I have to manually go in and figure out how to stop that and get it to connect to the apartment one here (out of like 10 options, which I only use one). Then I go to campus and I have the same issue and have to go in and make adjustments again. However, this is probably a WM issue and not a ROM problem.
As far as saving data or settings, I usually either back up the appropriate files to storage card or install to Storage card and just reinstall after hard reset. I don't think any back up utilities work if you change roms, but I'm sure some one will prove me wrong.
As for your second problem, I didn't even know it was one, so can't help you. Although thinking about it I've seen a program for assigning profiles to wifi connections or something along those lines, which is just what your looking for. Do a search. If I come across it will post a link for you.
Ixtana_ran said:
As far as saving data or settings, I usually either back up the appropriate files to storage card or install to Storage card and just reinstall after hard reset. I don't think any back up utilities work if you change roms, but I'm sure some one will prove me wrong.
As for your second problem, I didn't even know it was one, so can't help you. Although thinking about it I've seen a program for assigning profiles to wifi connections or something along those lines, which is just what your looking for. Do a search. If I come across it will post a link for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Installing to a storage card seems like a good idea. When you install to a storage card, does it install the App there as well as data for the app? Do you even get a choice of where to do the install? Some files run as .exe on the desktop and then automatically install on the wizard. Others I have encountered have you copy a .cab file to the wizard and then just open it. Would you simply put the .cab file on the storage card and open from there? Is there a way to install via .exe to storage card?
I have a bunch of microSD cards around, so I'm waiting on a miniSD adapter to come in so I can actually use them with this phone. It will probably be easier to figure out once I have the adapter.
wow. ive had my wizard 5 months im still having problems understanding what i read about geting wm6 and touchflo. you experiance with do things allready?
Doesn't matter where you install from, when you get a storage card in, you are given a choice:- device or storage card.
Some don't like storage cards and after go on device memory, i.e. today plug ins. but its not written in stone, trial and error.
Thanks for all the help. It's a lot clearer than it was a few days ago now that I've played with installing some more.
My final question is this: I've learned how to install ROMS and search these forums for them (although I'm not sure on what each has to offer, as that will take some time). However, people mention when switching ROMs for whatever reason, the best thing to do is install an original ROM first, and then go on to whatever you want to install.
Where can I find the original ROMs for WM6? I've looked in the forums and did a search but didn't seem to come up with anything.
Would an original WM6 ROM work? Or would I need to flash back to a Cingular one with WM5 like it had when I first got it?
Anyways, just wondering about this. I imagine I just do it the same way I flashed the TNT ROM, but need to get a copy of the original ROM saved for future use.
Thanks.
Superman859 said:
Thanks for all the help. It's a lot clearer than it was a few days ago now that I've played with installing some more.
My final question is this: I've learned how to install ROMS and search these forums for them (although I'm not sure on what each has to offer, as that will take some time). However, people mention when switching ROMs for whatever reason, the best thing to do is install an original ROM first, and then go on to whatever you want to install.
Where can I find the original ROMs for WM6? I've looked in the forums and did a search but didn't seem to come up with anything.
Would an original WM6 ROM work? Or would I need to flash back to a Cingular one with WM5 like it had when I first got it?
Anyways, just wondering about this. I imagine I just do it the same way I flashed the TNT ROM, but need to get a copy of the original ROM saved for future use.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although the wizard was tested my MS with wm6, it was never released as stock. For stability, always flash your carrier rom before a new rom (wm5... you can get it at htc)
Octavio's roms have been the most stable for me. 6.3 with wm6.1 works great. Also check out www.pointui.com for another type of touch interface. I think you would like it.
Oh... and don't become like us. I flash the rom now more then i use it. Dang things addictive.
Alright. When you say I can get it from HTC, are you referring to this URL?
HTC Download
I just want to make sure I am saving the correct version to revert back to in between ROMS. The site doesn't really provide much description about what it is.
Edit: I tried to install the ROM from the URL above, but it gave an error and said I need a newer update utility. Not sure why...Anyways...Can anyone provide a link to where I can find the original ROM I should flash to between other ROMs? If it makes a difference, I have Cingular (AT&T) - originally had WM5 now it has TNT.1437 (WM6) and I went through steps for hardSPL if that makes a difference (IPL 2.21.0001 SPL 2.21.01ip) as seen on the wiki. Phone is a G4 and works fine other than a few bugs / freezes up on ocassion, but I'd like to try other ROMs
EDIT: The ROM above did work, but I had to remove the HardSPL I had added earlier. That must've been the problem. After removing it, I installed stock ROM without any trouble - time to try a new ROM!
Hi,
I am using in my ROM the normal process to start the customization after burning the ROM.
File \OEM\OperatorPKG\mxipupdate_zzPIED_101.provxml:
<wap-provisioningdoc>
<characteristic type="Registry">
<characteristic type="HKLM\Comm" >
<parm name="AutoRunCFG" value="\windows\config_operator.txt" datatype="string" />
<parm name="AutoRun" value="\windows\AutoRun.exe" datatype="string" />
</characteristic>
</characteristic>
</wap-provisioningdoc>
In my config_operator.txt I am installing some CABs - which works fine.
My idea was to delete all CABs after installation automatically. For that reason I have changed a *.rgu under \SYS\Shell:
from
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\cabfile\Shell\Open\Command]
@="wceload.exe \"%1\" /delete 1"
to
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\cabfile\Shell\Open\Command]
@="wceload.exe \"%1\" /nodelete"
In normal cases @="wceload.exe \"%1\" /delete 1" makes sure the a CAB will be deleted after installation.
If I install a CAB after customization the CAB is gone - so far so good - means the entry in the registry is fine.
Unfortunately, during the customization (which works fine) the CABs are still under \windows. It seems that the above change does not work with customization.
Question:
Does the autorun process (during the customization) after burning a ROM also using the wceload.exe to install a CAB ?
Regards
kuzco1
I was going to ask a very similar question, but I think I'll just bump yours instead
'Burn' the ROM
Yes, really like it rather than 'flash'.
If u want the cab deleted after autorun, just remove the read-only attributes & vice-versa. (if cabs in SD)
/nodelete switch wont work as it still delete the cab if the cab is not with read-only attr.
i think autorun doesnt use wceload but let the experts confirm it first. Just my guess.
So you want to delete a file from the ROM during customization (wont work) or off the MicroSD (would work), however I don't think I would include something from the SD in the customization XML I would use an auto installer first.
Thanks
Wait, I'm sorry, but it looks like you've changed the registry to NOT delete the .cab
mbarvian said:
Wait, I'm sorry, but it looks like you've changed the registry to NOT delete the .cab
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh...yeah I think he got those switched.
But, the point is.. when you cook a ROM, everything in that ROM gets flashed to the read-only part of your device's memory. It can't be deleted...through any (normal) means.
This is one of the reasons some people like lite-ROMS...because ROMs that have alot of stuff in them just can't have their contents manually deleted.
With the Kasier memory map at least there is no way to do this.
As suggested, you could have those CABs on the storage card, but that wouldn't be advised as those might not be present.
bengalih said:
Heh...yeah I think he got those switched.
But, the point is.. when you cook a ROM, everything in that ROM gets flashed to the read-only part of your device's memory. It can't be deleted...through any (normal) means.
This is one of the reasons some people like lite-ROMS...because ROMs that have alot of stuff in them just can't have their contents manually deleted.
With the Kasier memory map at least there is no way to do this.
As suggested, you could have those CABs on the storage card, but that wouldn't be advised as those might not be present.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK thanks for that useful info bengalih
hmm, so I guess the best thing to do would be either cook it in, or go for a light approach. However, if going with the light approach, wouldn't the device perform worse than if the .cabs were cooked in an OEM package?
mbarvian said:
OK thanks for that useful info bengalih
hmm, so I guess the best thing to do would be either cook it in, or go for a light approach. However, if going with the light approach, wouldn't the device perform worse than if the .cabs were cooked in an OEM package?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know... the memory in the Kaiser is the same type, and is just separated into the read-only portion (where the ROM is flashed to), and the writable portion (where you can install content into).
This has been mentioned many times, and I don't think anyone has gotten any more conclusive than I had in some earlier threads about memory types on the kasier.
So, no... if you install App1.exe by cooking into your ROM, vs. installing it afterwards, there shouldn't be a difference in the speed. Obviously, if you install it to your storage card it will be slower.
I have always been a proponent of lighter ROMS, the reason being is not that I don't want a lot of stuff...I generally do load a lot.. But, the problem is it can't be removed.
So, if you cook in an app into your ROM, and that app is then updated you have to install the updated versoin without removing the original (which is cooked in and read-only). To make it worse, quite a few apps install things in the \Windows directory and won't even allow you to upgrade because it can't overwrite itself (or be installed to an alternate location).
My advice, especially if cooking for yourself is to cook in any core apps that are unlikely to get updated (like Office, basic games, etc.). Just cook in the files (e.g OEM packages) and not the CABs themselves.
Any other apps that you see as needing updates I would install separately, unless you want to be recooking the ROM every time you want to update them.
bengalih said:
As far as I know... the memory in the Kaiser is the same type, and is just separated into the read-only portion (where the ROM is flashed to), and the writable portion (where you can install content into).
This has been mentioned many times, and I don't think anyone has gotten any more conclusive than I had in some earlier threads about memory types on the kasier.
So, no... if you install App1.exe by cooking into your ROM, vs. installing it afterwards, there shouldn't be a difference in the speed. Obviously, if you install it to your storage card it will be slower.
I have always been a proponent of lighter ROMS, the reason being is not that I don't want a lot of stuff...I generally do load a lot.. But, the problem is it can't be removed.
So, if you cook in an app into your ROM, and that app is then updated you have to install the updated versoin without removing the original (which is cooked in and read-only). To make it worse, quite a few apps install things in the \Windows directory and won't even allow you to upgrade because it can't overwrite itself (or be installed to an alternate location).
My advice, especially if cooking for yourself is to cook in any core apps that are unlikely to get updated (like Office, basic games, etc.). Just cook in the files (e.g OEM packages) and not the CABs themselves.
Any other apps that you see as needing updates I would install separately, unless you want to be recooking the ROM every time you want to update them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow, another good post
that is basically what I am trying to accomplish. I have my registry tweaks, files that don't get updated (Office, etc.) cooked in, but for some reason I cannot change the look of the dialer (I wanted to use poorlyduck's diamond dialer) by converting it to an OEM package with Ervius' Package Creator. Same with the comm manager skin. Therfore, I have resorted to installing these two through their default cabinet files during initial customization.
also, here's some very nice posts by duttythroy in the diamond rom development concerning this topic:
duttythroy said:
Just a tip, A clean rom is very good if you going to stick with what you got in the rom and possible a few otther apps by cabs, If your going to installed the same apps which are in a full rom then the clean rom with those apps in will make you lose valuable storage space rather than them cooked in and sometimes device will start to feel sluggish but it all depends on how many cabs youre going to re-install.
TIps , there are certain apps which are cooked in doesnt take up any storage space but if install by cab you will then use up valuable space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
duttythroy said:
bascally there some programs which ar cooked in for e.g Remote desktop, If cook this in its 1.45mb I think, I will only use up only about .45mb and save 1mb of storage space, If i install this by cab I would use up all of the 1.45mb storage space
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mbarvian said:
wow, another good post
....
also, here's some very nice posts by duttythroy in the diamond rom development concerning this topic:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well dutty is by far a better cook than I... I'll stick to the scripting. I understand the basics of cooking...I just don't have the temperment for it.
However, I don't fully agree with all those points. I think his conclusions are correct, but I don't think the reasoning behind them are.
First off with space. Windows machines (be they PCs or WM devices) are basically made up of two things. File system and Registry (the registry just being a special file on the system). If I remove 2MB worth of an app from a ROM before I cook it, and then create a .CAB that contains those 2MB of files, the same amount of space is going to be taken up.
I have ripped quite a few apps to compile CABS from ROMs, and I know this to be the case.
So, in theory there is no reason why an app that is cooked into the phone would take up any less space than a .CAB. The only additional thing that the .CAB would create is a registry entry that the .CAB is installed.
In practice however, dutty may be correct. Because it is very difficult to figure out where everything is and strip it properly from a ROM. So, you might think you ripped out App1, but in reality you left a couple of extra files in the Windows directory, or a few registry keys, etc. Generally if there is a space discepancy beyond a very small amount (a couple reg entries perhaps) then the cook doing the cleaning or the person packaging the CAB probably weren't as thorough as they could be.
Another possibility is that some apps that may reside in the windows directory on a loaded ROM share some common files. If you attempt to install this via CAB to a separate directory, you may need to duplicate some files. But again, this is how you go about the work, so if done right and clean the space difference should be negligible.
The other point regarding speed of cooked in vs. installed. I don't think things are going to get sluggish one way or the other. Again, this is in theory. In practice, cooks often mess things up when they are in there tinkering with a ROM. If I rip out AppA and make a CAB out of it and then say the CAB performs sluggishly whereas it was fine when it was cooked in...well then the CAB probably was ripped wrong!
This is very much not an science but an art (sometimes to my dismay!). And there definitely isn't alot of controlled scientific basis for alot of what floats around out here.
Again, in practice many of these issues happen, so I think dutty's points are valid...but I think they can be avoided with precision work.
EDIT: I suppose some greater space savings could be had if the cooked in apps had some sort of memory compression. Although as far as I know this doesn't exist on the Kaiser. And, even if they were saving space due to compression in the memory, that would only serve to decrease performance (higher compression = slower performance).
bengalih said:
So, in theory there is no reason why an app that is cooked into the phone would take up any less space than a .CAB. The only additional thing that the .CAB would create is a registry entry that the .CAB is installed.
In practice however, dutty may be correct. Because it is very difficult to figure out where everything is and strip it properly from a ROM. So, you might think you ripped out App1, but in reality you left a couple of extra files in the Windows directory, or a few registry keys, etc. Generally if there is a space discepancy beyond a very small amount (a couple reg entries perhaps) then the cook doing the cleaning or the person packaging the CAB probably weren't as thorough as they could be.
Another possibility is that some apps that may reside in the windows directory on a loaded ROM share some common files. If you attempt to install this via CAB to a separate directory, you may need to duplicate some files. But again, this is how you go about the work, so if done right and clean the space difference should be negligible.
The other poing regarding speed of cooked in vs. installed. I don't think things are going to get sluggish one way or the other. Again, this is in theory. In practice, cooks often mess things up when they are in there tinkering with a ROM. If I rip out AppA and make a CAB out of it and then say the CAB performs sluggishly whereas it was fine when it was cooked in...well then the CAB probably was ripped wrong!
This is very much not an science but an art (sometimes to my dismay!). And there definitely isn't alot of controlled scientific basis for alot of what floats around out here.
Again, in practice many of these issues happen, so I think dutty's points are valid...but I think they can be avoided with precision work.
EDIT: I suppose some greater space savings could be had if the cooked in apps had some sort of memory compression. Although as far as I know this doesn't exist on the Kaiser. And, even if they were saving space due to compression in the memory, that would only serve to decrease performance (higher compression = slower performance).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can't argue with this post
mbarvian said:
Wait, I'm sorry, but it looks like you've changed the registry to NOT delete the .cab
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi,
yes you are right .. I have done the other wy. My fault in my first post. I have changed /nodelete to /delete.
But anyway, I understood that it is not possible to delete cabs during customization.
Many thanks to all
kuzco1
i was just trying to get a grasp on how to flash bootloaders on android devices. I have got a grasp with how to do it on old WinMo HTC devices, but there seems to be a lot more information regarding the various Android handsets. So here is the rundown of what I have found so far:
General Android: it appears that almost all android phones have the ability to flash from an SD card (by putting an update.zip on it). Can this reflash the bootloader? i don't see a reason why not (the bootloader should be in memory when the updater is running, so the flash should be writable) but having said that, i know on the old HTC devices that I have used, it wasn't possible (you had to load a softSPL or a diagnostic SPL to then run the flashing). Also, would anyone by any chance have a good understanding of what is in the update.zip? i see it referenced a lot, but as far as i can tell, it looks like it is just packages and directories and stuff to copy. Most of the posts I have seen regarding flashing also try replacing the recovery image, and then booting into recovery and telling it to recover. Does this work for bootloaders or just ROMs?
HTC: this appears to be the same as the old WinMo 6 devices I have used. You can use the RUU utility, supply it with an nbh file, and there are no problems. Outside of the Incredible S it would also appear that they don't have any kind of signing or anything to worry about. As such, you can see the SPL in cleartext and is in cleartext on the phone (I am guessing anyways). One question I do have is I have the ancient NBHGen used for the Kaiser (also worked for Hermes, Trinity, etc.), will that work with say the HTC Hero (or insert modern phone here)?
Samsung: Samsungs SBL as far as I can tell is equivalent to the HTC SPL (much the same as the HTC IPL = Samsung PBL). I have actually seen an apk that supposedly updated the SBL for Samsung. Like HTC, it also appears that they leave everything in clear text. If i am not mistaken, Odin is the tool of choice for reflashing on Samsung devices (any good tutorials out there for it and its file formats? i haven't actually looked too hard at that yet)
Motorola: I dont wish to stir up any anger (especially since most of what I read is on the Droid X), but Motorola is the one that is the hardest to find real info on. Motorola, on their more popular phones, appears to have made a habit of adding aggressive anti-tampering to their premier phones (at least after the original droid). I don't believe that their SPL equivalents have been cracked, but I also can't find a straight answer about whether their bootloaders are signed or encrypted (or both). They are two different things, but have been largely used interchangeably on most forums. They also have eFuse protection. I have looked at a few of the SBF files in a hex editor, and they don't appear to be ARM assembly. That said, I wouldn't believe that it is encrypted as there is cleartext within it. This leaves a couple of options. either the data moved is encrypted and it copies over encrypted data that gets decrypted at boot time (that seems like a massive waste of CPU cycles, but i wouldn't put it past them to do something like that). Or it could mean it gets decrypted by whatever loads it onto the phone. And lastly, it could just be x86 assembly (which i wouldn't recognize by looking at it). The last one seems to be the best fitting, but it doesn't answer whether or not it is encrypted on the phone. Since I haven't found an SBF file that contains just a bootloader, i haven't really had the chance to examine it. I also have not sen a way to flash a new SPL to a device (even a more open one like the original droid, which i believe is still locked, just not signed/encrypted).
file formats: this is also kind of confusing. I mentioned the update.zip above, but i have also seen people referencing ,bin and .img and all kinds of other files. If i am not mistaken, a bin and img file are the same with a different extension. Straight up binary, though i believe that the img files are supposed to be partition images. Is that accurate? and are SBF files executable? i swear i saw somewhere that people were running them, though it could just be my imagination...
I know there is a lot there a lot of information there, but I just wanted to check and make sure it is accurate, so I don't sound like a noob to my boss when I present it.
Many thanks!