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Dear Forums,
As we all know, the key to having a truly customizable device is having the source for their builds, and as we also all know, Viewsonic has not released the source code for their Gtablet.
If we all find the correct email to contact, much like all other companies they will be pressured into releasing the source to the community.
Let's get this done.
LETTER
Dear Viewsonic,
We are aware your company has directed many customers calling for technical support to the gTablet sub-forum of xda-developers
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=841
Please consider listening to what the community as asking for.
By using the Linux Kernel in your device you are required by the Free Software Foundation's General Public License (GPLv2) to release the source code for the kernel. If there is any proprietary software involved in said code, then you have the right to protect your investment, and not include that with the source release.
We are entitled to the source to change our tablets in the way we see fit with the full understanding that when we modify our tablets software we remove ourselves from any sort of warranty you may offer.
Furthermore, we would like an open dialog between with your developers concerning the software which is shipped with the gTablet. It well known among the community that the return rate for the gTablet is unnaturally high. The version of Android developed by Tap n Tap does not provide a positive user experience for the average user. By this time you should be aware of such feedback coming from the main distributors of the gTablet, Sears and Staples. This situation will only continue to get worse as detailed professional reviews of this product begin to circulate around the Internet. One such review I am referring to will be posted to Anandtech.com in the next few days.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4054/first-look-viewsonic-gtablet-and-tegra-2-performance-preview
Barnes and Noble has released a Software Development Kit as well as source code to enable the community to make the Nook Color the best product it can be.
http://www.barnesandnobleinc.com/press_releases/2010_oct_26_nook_developer.html
Please follow their example. By working together we can make the gTablet a real competitor in the burgeoning tablet marketplace.
Sincerely,
The gTablet Community from xda-developers.com
I'll second that. Not sure what we can do, but they should be reminded.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Viewsonic's main website has a support tab that you can send inquiries. Do you think it would get to the right place if we used that?
The email avenue did not work for me
xmr405o said:
Viewsonic's main website has a support tab that you can send inquiries. Do you think it would get to the right place if we used that?
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I tried using the email tech support method for the web site; got this response back:
Dear Mr. Walker,
Thank you for contacting ViewSonic Technical Support.
I apologize but as much as I wanted to assist you with it, the product that you are inquiring about is handled by a different technical department.
You may contact them by calling 1-866-501-6405 between 8am-5pm PST, Monday through Friday.
If you have other technical concerns, feel free to contact us again. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to assist you.
Sincerely,
Josef
ViewSonic Technical Support
(800) 688-6688 (USA)
(866) 463-4775(Canada)
[email protected] said:
I tried using the email tech support method for the web site; got this response back:
Dear Mr. Walker,
Thank you for contacting ViewSonic Technical Support.
I apologize but as much as I wanted to assist you with it, the product that you are inquiring about is handled by a different technical department.
You may contact them by calling 1-866-501-6405 between 8am-5pm PST, Monday through Friday.
If you have other technical concerns, feel free to contact us again. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to assist you.
Sincerely,
Josef
ViewSonic Technical Support
(800) 688-6688 (USA)
(866) 463-4775(Canada)
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Go for it. it has to drop sooner or later. the more pressure from the community, the better. I'll drop them a line as well.
I get the feeling that instead of taking the time to lock the device down like is done with phones and other android devices, they decided they will just not release the code and hope to stall out mods that way.
TheMongol said:
I get the feeling that instead of taking the time to lock the device down like is done with phones and other android devices, they decided they will just not release the code and hope to stall out mods that way.
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That'd work, except for the fact that it's against the GPL, and that'd be breaking the law. They have to make it available, it's just a matter of pressuring them into doing so sooner than later.
just sent off my second email to viewsonic regarding the gtablet (along with a note telling them to fwd the email accordingly). i will let you guys know if i get a response.
Just called in. They are taking people's contact info that say they are android developers (they started doing that today) and they said they are not doing it to track us or anything like that, but to contact us...like say...when the source is released.
Everybody, call. Emailing isn't going to get you anywhere.
I informed them that they will legally have to release source under GPL, he said he will be passing that up to the developers. It sounds like we may be getting somewhere, but we need to call...the more the merrier. It sounds like they have a small call center so its not how many times you call, but how many different people call at this point.
myndwire said:
That'd work, except for the fact that it's against the GPL, and that'd be breaking the law. They have to make it available, it's just a matter of pressuring them into doing so sooner than later.
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Oh yes indeed. But that doesn't mean people won't try to get away with things from time to time. Perhaps they are not even aware. I know I am going to call and ask soon even though I just started developing on android.
I called them today, as well - good bunch of people over there and a pleasure to talk with them.
I'm serious - in a world of reps in third world countries speaking broken english and working off a script, the VS reps are a breath of fresh air and Viewsonic should be commended for that alone. I put in my usual request to please release the source and I was told that they will pass it onto the development team.
I don't expect anything to come from it, but they do know who I am and who we are, so I'm hoping that VS management throws us a bone once they realize what a mistake it was adding that TnT layer.
roebeet said:
I called them today, as well - good bunch of people over there and a pleasure to talk with them.
I'm serious - in a world of reps in third world countries speaking broken english and working off a script, the VS reps are a breath of fresh air and Viewsonic should be commented for that alone. I put in my usual request to please release the source and I was told that they will pass it onto the development team.
I don't expect anything to come from it, but they do know who I am and who we are, so I'm hoping that VS management throws us a bone once they realize what a mistake it was adding that TnT layer.
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I agree. The guy I talked to was pretty cool. He also said that the developers are being very persistent about keeping TnT in place. Very nice to talk to someone that can actually speak English
scsione889 said:
I agree. The guy I talked to was pretty cool, and even he came out and said xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. He also said that the developers are being very persistent about keeping TnT in place. Very nice to talk to someone that can actually speak English
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Watch out, they read these forums, don't want to get the poor guy fired!
jacindc said:
Watch out, they read these forums, don't want to get the poor guy fired!
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x2 on that! Rule of thumb - if you write something here about a conversation with CS, assume that their management might read it and how that would look.
Just spoke with Mike @ Viewsonic gtablet support. First, they are very nice! Second, Mike said that they are working on a release, but no date yet. Finally, Mike said that they would be posting it to viewsonic.com/gtablet website (and to also check xda-developers.com for other updates).
They also took my e-mail address - hopefully to send out a blast when they are finally able to post it.
BTW, Mike - thanks!
I also have to echo others who have posted here - Thank you, Viewsonic, for having people who can speak English!!
I figured I would do my part as well. I called & spoke to a tech who said they were not releasing it & have no plans to do so. I said its linux based & the GPL says they have to release the source by law. He said they dont support changing the operating system. I said Android is linux based & falls under the GPL. He then transfered me to a senior tech who said:
Tap n tap is proprietary & therefore it doesn’t fall in the GPL. He said the TNT is also horrendous & they want to protect the tap n tap ‘investment’ which is why the source wont be released. They did not ask for my information aside from my first name for the conversation we had. He basically said they were not going to release the source regardless of how many people called. The only way to get it is to sue the company & force them to do so. Obviously, I am not looking to spend more money just to get the source. He knows that, the company knows that & until someone bucks up & hires an attorney, viewsonic doesn’t care.
He did say that they did get a number of calls, he feels for me, he said others have rooted it but tough titties (my summary).
RichTJ99 said:
He basically said they were not going to release the source regardless of how many people called. The only way to get it is to sue the company & force them to do so.
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Boy, did my blood pressure just skyrocket.
RichTJ99 said:
I figured I would do my part as well. I called & spoke to a tech who said they were not releasing it & have no plans to do so. I said its linux based & the GPL says they have to release the source by law. He said they dont support changing the operating system. I said Android is linux based & falls under the GPL. He then transfered me to a senior tech who said:
Tap n tap is proprietary & therefore it doesn’t fall in the GPL. He said the TNT is also horrendous & they want to protect the tap n tap ‘investment’ which is why the source wont be released. They did not ask for my information aside from my first name for the conversation we had. He basically said they were not going to release the source regardless of how many people called. The only way to get it is to sue the company & force them to do so. Obviously, I am not looking to spend more money just to get the source. He knows that, the company knows that & until someone bucks up & hires an attorney, viewsonic doesn’t care.
He did say that they did get a number of calls, he feels for me, he said others have rooted it but tough titties (my summary).
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Thanks for the info.
What I don't understand is why is it that HTC is bound to GPL in that it must release source for its devices even though the majority of HTC devices has the proprietary software, Sense?
I don't think having proprietary software on a device exempts a company from conforming to GPL.
i think they must be new to linux or HTC is very used to dealing with Linux.
The senior tech was sympathetic but was firm in repeating the company plans. Heck their twitter page sais the same exact thing.
It makes me wonder if I should return it.
RichTJ99 said:
i think they must be new to linux or HTC is very used to dealing with Linux.
The senior tech was sympathetic but was firm in repeating the company plans. Heck their twitter page sais the same exact thing.
It makes me wonder if I should return it.
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I agree- without source, the gtab won't be able to experience its full potential especially if Viewsonic thinks anyone likes tapntap. Makes me wonder if I should return mine even though (outside of a few annoyances) I really like the device.
Viewsonic has to release source. Their device is Linux based with a proprietary software user interface just like HTC devices. This is ridiculous.
Hello Guys,
My name is John, I recently became the social media analyst at Samsung mobile. I wanted to start opening the lines of communication between XDA and Samsung. First I wanted to say I have noticed your work on our devices on the XDA forums. I think you guys do an outstanding job, I myself am a developer for mobile devices. So let’s get down to business, we’re going to be in Austin from March 10-15 for the SXSW(south by southwest http://sxsw.com/convention). I was wondering if any of you guys are going so that we could meet up and share a couple of ideas I have. I am looking forward to meeting some of you GREAT developers!
Thanks in advance,
John
Social Media Analyst
Samsung Mobile USA
Twitter: @SamsungJohn
Is this for real? Please provide some proof you work for samsung.
Sooooo...what's the hold up with Froyo, John?
wonner said:
Sooooo...what's the hold up with Froyo, John?
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+1
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I honestly hope you are authentic. It is about time that the people who make the phones embrace the superior developmental process.
Pikabob said:
I honestly hope you are authentic. It is about time that the people who make the phones embrace the superior developmental process.
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Or at least attempt to embrace some kind of something. That'd be a start for Samsung.
Sounds like BS advertising to get people in seats at this event.
Interesting...go through his previous posts once, not exactly his first time posting on the forums...
So let’s get down to business, we’re going to be in Austin from March 10-15 for the SXSW(south by southwest http://sxsw.com/convention).
The link doesn't work....
Troll.....
Yeah, sounds troll to me, but it will be nice for them to show here...and learn a bit of how things are done
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Real
Yes I am the real deal, I am a developer/social media analyst. I don't mind taking a picture of my badge or something to prove my credibility.
SamsungJohn said:
Yes I am the real deal, I am a developer/social media analyst. I don't mind taking a picture of my badge or something to prove my credibility.
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I think he's legit, folks.
If you are indeed an analyst for Samsung, welcome to XDA. I'm sure you've already noticed by now that there is a lot of cynicism both for Samsung and your claim of being an employee. Simple reason for this is that most everyone here feels that Samsung has ignored their pleas for help, didn’t deliver promised upgrades, and left millions of Galaxy S owners with buggy software/hardware, etc.
If your goal is to reach out to Samsung users at the grassroots level, you're in the right place. However, you also have a tough job ahead of you. The disenfranchisement runs deep and it will take a lot of effort to fix.
Here are some suggestions for you to escalate internally within Samsung:
1. Support the development efforts of the XDA developers. There are many talented people working quite hard to customize, fix and generally improve Samsung firmware. Samsung should make some effort to provide these developers with source code, tools, and help.
2. Take an honest and upfront approach to product defects that find their way onto store shelves (e.g. GPS, battery, etc). I guarantee the cost of addressing the problem will be fully offset by the shift in customer loyalty. An unreliable product is perceived many times worse if the OEM denies or ignores the issues.
3. Set a release schedule with carrier partners and stick to it. Apple has set the benchmark for frequent over the wire software updates. Android applications are updated with fixes and improvements on a regular basis. In stark contrast, our firmware lags far behind Google’s releases and FOTA is failing more than it’s working. This has to change. Samsung needs to push out regular firmware updates that are applied seamlessly without loss of data. Forget FOTA and do it like Apple does OTW (over the wire).
4. Allow users the option of switching to AOSP. Some people like TouchWiz and some don’t. Give them the choice.
BTW, in addition to being an informed consumer, I work in the mobile industry. I know a fair amount about how it should work. The Samsung Galaxy product suite is performing very well but the real question is how long will it last. Loyalty takes effort to maintain and is easy to lose.
P.S. I may very well be at SXSW but I won’t know for sure until a week or so beforehand.
I understand I have a lot of work ahead of me. As I said before, Im here to establish a partnership with XDA developers. Inbox me to let me know if your going to be there so i can arrange somewhere to meet.
If he was legit, one of the Admins would be announcing that SamsungJohn is a rep from Samsung; he wouldn't be doing it himself as a post in the forum.
paulbh said:
If he was legit, one of the Admins would be announcing that SamsungJohn is a rep from Samsung; he wouldn't be doing it himself as a post in the forum.
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^^^^^^ that's a good point!
SamsungJohn said:
I understand I have a lot of work ahead of me. As I said before, Im here to establish a partnership with XDA developers. Inbox me to let me know if your going to be there so i can arrange somewhere to meet.
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If you are in fact telling the truth, I warmly welcome you to the true birthplace of the galaxy s.
paulbh said:
If he was legit, one of the Admins would be announcing that SamsungJohn is a rep from Samsung; he wouldn't be doing it himself as a post in the forum.
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Why? There's quite a bit of speculation in your claim--why would he have to go through admins to post here?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Kubernetes said:
Why? There's quite a bit of speculation in your claim--why would he have to go through admins to post here?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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You would think that someone who is in the position he claims to be in, would come in a little more professional than just a random post.
He said he has been lurking the forums and likes what he sees. So he has also seen all the dissapointment that is running through these forums as well.
If you were in his position would you not want to come in here, with support and proof of who you are? (there is multiple threads of the same post in other categories, all have been asking for proof for hours)
I'm not saying hes not who he says he is, just think he could have introduced himself a little better.
Guys, do a little research. Pretty easy to figure out that he is either very thorough or he's actually legit.
Maybe we should tell him that it is a welcome first step to see him here.
He is an analyst so he's going to have to escalate pretty far up the food chain to be effective. Hope you're a good communicator John.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Viewsonic announced it's Honeycomb tablet @ 7 inches. Which means they have the HC source code... which means they hate the gtab community.... because we don't get it, even for modding purposes.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/12/viewsonic-7x-shrinks-honeycomb-to-7-inches-for-the-tiny-handed/
They don't hate the Gtab community. Don't try to anthropomorphize a corporation because you will only end up sad and depressed. All Viewsonic wants is to make money by putting out products and then putting out more products. We are numbers, not faces.
Fair enough. I suppose I am a bit idealistic that they would continue to support something older. Perhaps more my frustration is the lack of source code when it could be given... but that it an entitlement mentality I suppose.
forgiventhief said:
Fair enough. I suppose I am a bit idealistic that they would continue to support something older. Perhaps more my frustration is the lack of source code when it could be given... but that it an entitlement mentality I suppose.
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stop caving because one person says something!!!!
and to the user that commented to the OP, thought the info you stated (numbers, not faces) is true, STOP ACTING LIKE IT'S ACCEPTABLE.
To many 300 to 500 dollars is a lot of money and the company has a moral obligation to support it for a reasonable amount of time. This was in no way accomplished by viewsonic. Horrible business ethics and I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER VIEWSONIC PRODUCT. you vote with your purchasing power and viewsonic lost mine, my family's and my friend's votes.
as an aside, I suspect seeing all the progress made viewsonic might try to "save the day" and eventually release something for our g tab honeycomb flavored. I'm not fooled and you shouldn't be either. Your support should be for the devs like roebeet. If your running honeycomb and you haven't donated to him or the adamdevs you should feel worse than viewsonic.
vote with your money, I VOTE FOR OUR DEV COMMUNITY!
(before I get any posts about talking about donation, donation doesn't imply 3,000 dollars. Even if it's only a dollar, it says something.)
You do realize viewsonic just slapped their name on the Malta, right? You're mad at the wrong company.
schettj said:
You do realize viewsonic just slapped their name on the Malta, right? You're mad at the wrong company.
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Doesn't matter, though. As soon as VS slapped their name on it, they've adopted it.
The way VS is treating the gtab is worse than just numbers. They have intentionally ignored it, not giving it any press or anything at all. There isn't even a direct link to the gtab from their main website.
The gtab is doing way better than other "real" VS devices. It's the number 1 seller on amazon for goodness sake. I'm still baffled why VS isn't putting more energy into the gtab. It's like they don't even wanna mention it.
I think it is a way to get more people to move to their ViewPad line and off of the GTab. I will not switch to their new line just because they put 3.0 on it. Our Devs will get a port over to the GTab and it will blow their new line out of the water. Shady tactics if you ask me.
goodintentions said:
Doesn't matter, though. As soon as VS slapped their name on it, they've adopted it.
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But they don't have any code... they have no development resources. They have a brand name. Whooo.
Seriously.
goodintentions said:
It's the number 1 seller on amazon for goodness sake.
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Yes, it was for the week it was on blowout $280 clearance. Look, it's a great bit of first gen tegra2 tablet hardware with a dreadful screen that would make it unsellable at any price other than "half of what everyone else charges".
That's dropping under $200-$225 now, which is probably well below the breakeven point. So enjoy it, and support the hackers hacking away, but forget about any serious support for it from VS. You'll be much happier.
yes, the code for our G-tabs belongs to Malata, but so does the code for the Vega and the Adam. They are rumored to be at least getting official GB roms WITH hardware acceleration. VS is to blame for not providing us with that as well. If they do, but are keeping it hush-hush, I'll change my opinion.
Of course, Vega and Adam are running on the new 1.2 bootloader (always have been). Now VS teases us with an update that they pull, that is on the 1.2 bootlaoder? In essence, VS provided our devs, very briefly, with the tools needed to port any updates from Adam or Vega. So, while not actually giving us what we've requested, they are letting other companies, and third party developers do their work for them.
It may be that Malata has abandoned VS for their lack of support for the G-Tab, so Malata cut them off from future development releases.
snapz54 said:
and to the user that commented to the OP, thought the info you stated (numbers, not faces) is true, STOP ACTING LIKE IT'S ACCEPTABLE.
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I didn't say it's acceptable. In fact it makes me just as mad as it seems to have made you and I have made my opinion on that fact known many times on this board and the Nvidia developer board. I'm just saying that the people who want these updates are currently in the minority. I agree that we should get updates but we have to realize that might not happen. In fact I'd much rather use homegrown software from the fine developers on XDA, Cyanogen, and any other dev website that's working for better things for the Gtab than anything Viewsonic/Malata/Nvidia puts out anyhow.
This whole frequently updated software thing is new to the world. I mean think about Apple and Microsoft. Microsoft updated like once every five years. Apple was better, but in both cases users were made to pay for the updates. Now we buy these devices and expect free software updates indefinetly? Sounds good to me, but what about these companies? Where is the money for them? What incentive to they have to churn out more software at no charge to the customer? I'm just saying that there are two sides to this argument and both should be represented.
adampdx said:
This whole frequently updated software thing is new to the world. I mean think about Apple and Microsoft. Microsoft updated like once every five years. Apple was better, but in both cases users were made to pay for the updates.
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What color is the sky in your world?
The problem with Android is exactly the problem Google is trying to get a handle on....
Fragmentation.
When you leave updates up to the the hardware manufactures, you're guaranteed to screw your customers. Because the only way the HW guys make any money at all is by having the customer buy new hardware to get the shiny new features.
Hopefully Google will be able to beat these guys into submission, but I do feel for them... they thought they were getting in on a great thing with a cheap OS for their hardware, and instead they were turned into commodity manufacturers delivering Google ad revenue to Google. Ah well.
I'd much rather use homegrown software from the fine developers on XDA, Cyanogen, and any other dev website that's working for better things for the Gtab than anything Viewsonic/Malata/Nvidia puts out anyhow.
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But it's these updates that custom rom devs use to get the information they need to make their roms. If we ever get official hardware acceleration it will be bundled into one of the officially released updates. The drivers can then be added to existing roms, or future roms. The bottom line is that we NEED official updates if we are to ever get the G-tablet to reach it's full potential.
Now we buy these devices and expect free software updates indefinetly? Sounds good to me, but what about these companies?
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These companies, namely VS knows that they put out a crap product, in regard to software. In fact, they, at one point, directed their customers HERE for support for their device. They released a product in which the hardware outclassed the software. What we paid for was hardware, plain and simple. only recently have people actually said they're using stock firmware and it doesn't suck. Prior to the latest updates (3588 and later) I would suspect that everyone that bought a G-tablet, including myself, KNEW that they were going to have to flash a custom Rom. Just a few days ago, another 850+ G-tabs were sold on Woot, again. At one point it was the top seller on Amazon. VS has to save a little face and continue to support their software, and yes, provide updates.
Fortunately for VS, Notion Ink seems more interested in updating their product for us...of course, VS had to sneak in the 1.2 dev branch that's shared by the Adam.
some good points have been made, but none of the ones supporting VS have been valid.
slapping your name on something instantly slaps responsibility on you, this "passing the buck" mentality is a big part of whats wrong with the world. Everyone can blame someone else and nothing gets done.
The consequences in some small part are now realized. Myself and others will not support viewsonic in any capacity in the future. Actions like this catch up with you, VS is a horrible company that saw an opportunity to make a quick buck without a moments thought of how it might affect anyone.
stop supporting these type of actions, they are wrong.
snapz54 said:
some good points have been made, but none of the ones supporting VS have been valid.
slapping your name on something instantly slaps responsibility on you, this "passing the buck" mentality is a big part of whats wrong with the world. Everyone can blame someone else and nothing gets done.
The consequences in some small part are now realized. Myself and others will not support viewsonic in any capacity in the future. Actions like this catch up with you, VS is a horrible company that saw an opportunity to make a quick buck without a moments thought of how it might affect anyone.
stop supporting these type of actions, they are wrong.
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So you bought an $800.00 xoom?
snapz54 said:
stop supporting these type of actions, they are wrong.
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That would be "don't buy the product"
Since I wanted a device I can experiment with, and didn't want to spend more than $280, this was the only device available.
I bought it knowing what it was. An orphan device with no significant Vendor support.
i thought google said they aren't going to release honeycomb SDK? so doesn't that mean manufacturers are not allowed to release it?
but i guess if we buy the next VS tablet. we can port a honeycomb rom from that to the gtab.
ninditsu said:
i thought google said they aren't going to release honeycomb SDK? so doesn't that mean manufacturers are not allowed to release it?
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You're confusing SDK (Software Development Kit) with Source Code. That said, up to this point, Google has been reluctant to release the Source Code for Honeycomb for - what I can only assume is - the purpose of reducing hardware fragmentation and QA purposes.
schettj said:
What color is the sky in your world?
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Ha! Always good to get a laugh out of these heated discussions. As far as fragmentation goes, I agree. It's a problem that Google created and now they're trying to fix. I'm not sure I can imagine a world where there are several hundred different pieces of tech floating around from different manufactures that all use software provided by a singular, separate company. Oh, wait...that sounds like WINDOWS. He he... I wouldn't dare compare our beloved Google to the likes of Microsoft. Never.
schettj said:
That would be "don't buy the product"
Since I wanted a device I can experiment with, and didn't want to spend more than $280, this was the only device available.
I bought it knowing what it was. An orphan device with no significant Vendor support.
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Thank you. These things are on clearance for a reason. A lot of people here have unrealistic expectations. Companies don't make money by pouring resources into devices that nobody bought. I remember buying an Atari Lynx back in the day and only had it for about a year before everybody stopped making games for it and they were pulled off the shelves. I never once thought that Atari hated me.
Don't know what happened... but my alert was put into Q&A even though it's not a question.
Sorry, for the cross-posting... but this issue is very important to all of us who care about rooting/modifying our devices. We may soon lose the legal exemption to do that.
UPDATE: I see that xda-dev has an article in its main portal page...
Bumping this until Feb. 10...
when no one will be able to affect the situation...
TRIED the website but it must be having some issues. Thanks Geek for the heads up. What a freakin joke. Utter and total BS. Imagine if the government tried to tell people that they couldn't modify there car? I'll try to find a better link to the petition.
Before everyone gets hyped:
It's a little bit complicated. First off, the Federal Government (namely a member of Congress) would have to care enough to push for a law to be passed. Another thing that could happen is that there could be an Agency regulation that specifically prohibits rooting. However for that to happen, they have to authority to be able to enforce it.
As long as you are not reverse engineering, you are not breaking any U.S. law. This exemption that is expiring only clarified a defense to a law that does not exist, meaning that we specifically stated that rooting was not a crime, while there was no law stating that modification was a crime. It is a very vague, legal gray area. It's a lot like gun laws- things are not settled until they are tried in court.
So hopefully it gets renewed.
finch8423 said:
Before everyone gets hyped:
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Too late. Getting hyped is a prerequisite for being a member of xda-dev.
finch8423 said:
It's a little bit complicated. First off, the Federal Government (namely a member of Congress) would have to care enough to push for a law to be passed. Another thing that could happen is that there could be an Agency regulation that specifically prohibits rooting. However for that to happen, they have to authority to be able to enforce it.
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I agree that it is complicated. But, according to EFF: Some device manufacturers claim that jailbreaking violates Section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), which carries stiff penalties.there is already such a law. Granted, there has not been a court case, yet, testing that law. But it is on the books.
finch8423 said:
As long as you are not reverse engineering, you are not breaking any U.S. law. This exemption that is expiring only clarified a defense to a law that does not exist, meaning that we specifically stated that rooting was not a crime, while there was no law stating that modification was a crime. It is a very vague, legal gray area. It's a lot like gun laws- things are not settled until they are tried in court.
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Well, you may wish to read, specifically, about Section 1201 of the DMCA. It is false comfort to think that a law does not exist... it does exist. The wikipedia article on the DMCA has a good discussion. If you are more of a legal geek, then the government provides congressional report 105-796 and a summary on the internet. For information on how institutions of learning can be affected, EDUCAUSE addresses the issue on its site.
finch8423 said:
So hopefully it gets renewed.
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The whole point of creating this thread. To help ensure that it is renewed.
A bull****, nothing more. It is my property and I do with it what I want. They can only affect my warrenty. They can only do something if its a carrier branded and you don't buy for full price . Then device is still a carrier property
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
This country is already broke (not only financially, but also morally -- but that's an entirely different discussion), how will they go about actually enforcing this law? I know that phone companies can gather a lot of information about your phone remotely, but can they tell whether your phone is rooted or not?
I'm not trying to be pompous, so I apologize if I came off like that. I completely agree with you.
They can claim all they want. It's important for everyone to know that if it comes to that, there is no specific law addressing this, only claims under the DMCA.
In my legal opinion, root privileges can hardly be misconstrued as copyright infringement. It's mainly Macintosh that is pushing this though- they claim that jailbreaking is illegal because of the close-source nature of their products (It's also ironic to note that many of the working conditions of their factories would be considered illegal in every country that they sell their products in).
Well macintosh and... recently, ASUS, right? and one other... last summer, but I can't recall who right now.
Let's just say... for sake of argument that carriers sign agreements with manufacturerers (when, in fact, they're different companies)... that require them to deny service to "rooted" devices based on the law... or maybe not the law... but their collective interpretation of the law...
Honestly...
Ndaa, sopa, pipa... Now this???
Dammit my m4 is getting put to use soon isn't it??
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
^ add ACTA to that list.
Sent from my SGS 4G.
You do realize that google gave us source, and samsung gave us source, and they both stated that "THIS CAN BE USED FOR "ENRICHMENT" OF YOUR PHONE" google android is 100% free. Even if it expired, it wouldn't effect us. Whoever the fool that initially stated that rooting will go away is false.
As ACTA is *****. My country accepted it, **** them
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
gefilus said:
As ACTA is *****. My country accepted it, **** them
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
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Damn... is your town as beautiful in person as it looks in pictures? I had to look it up to see where the hell you lived
Watch profile and will see where I live
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
airfluip1 said:
You do realize that google gave us source, and samsung gave us source, and they both stated that "THIS CAN BE USED FOR "ENRICHMENT" OF YOUR PHONE" google android is 100% free. Even if it expired, it wouldn't effect us. Whoever the fool that initially stated that rooting will go away is false.
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Are you suggesting that EFF doesn't know what the hell they are talking about?
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Maybe. Just ask Google.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
We might not be talking apples to apples...
I know apple has fought their phones being jail broken. But isn't it the carriers who really have the problem with it? They want to make you buy their network specific phone from them?
They can only put this law if there is one only on devices which are carrier branded. On unlocked or unbramded devices they can't do the ****. It is in my proparty and take you hand of from it, I can do with my device what I want
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
lumin30 said:
Damn... is your town as beautiful in person as it looks in pictures? I had to look it up to see where the hell you lived
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Mostly and almost the same like in pictures. And ye waterfall is or mark
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
http://gizmodo.com/5880930/only-ten-days-remain-to-keep-jailbreaking-legal
Thoughts? First I've heard of the issue coming back up.
http://www.xda-developers.com/featu...ilbreaking-will-expire-eff-wants-to-renew-it/
Identical topics are identical.
Well if you jailbreak it now, you can keep it jailbroken after without being illegal. Prospectivity is a great thing
Sent from my Sensation using XDA App
its my device. i deserve the right to do what i want with it. i believe in a person's right to try possibly stupid things as long as it doesn't deny another of their rights. rooting doesn't deny anyone anything. therefore i don't see any good reason why it should be illegal.
According to the thread title we can forget all about this since it's never gonna happen
Surely it can't apply to open source such as android but only closed source such as ios wp7 etcetera?
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
Yeah that
thezombiehunter said:
its my device. i deserve the right to do what i want with it. i believe in a person's right to try possibly stupid things as long as it doesn't deny another of their rights. rooting doesn't deny anyone anything. therefore i don't see any good reason why it should be illegal.
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AMEN
-Tyler Debel
Btw, my iPhone, my ipod touch is MY DEVICE. I don't give a **** to what they want.. do what you want with your device but don't anoye me
I never get anything like this... Its your device, you bought it so you should be able to do whatever you want with it... I hope it doesn't go through cuz that would be freggin stupid.
.
It will never pass, but if it does, then I'd just download new roms and rooting tools through TOR browser. I mean, Its my phone I bought it, I can do what I want. I am paying AT&T to let them wet their beaks, they should be content.
Danmanlott said:
It will never pass, but if it does, then I'd just download new roms and rooting tools through TOR browser. I mean, Its my phone I bought it, I can do what I want. I am paying AT&T to let them wet their beaks, they should be content.
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Your right the phone is yours but your only licencing to use the software. There is a huge difference.
I don't see any reason why this won't get extended. Jailbreaking's kind of 'a thing' culturally, imo.
JerleMinara said:
I don't see any reason why this won't get extended. Jailbreaking's kind of 'a thing' culturally, imo.
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Apple likes complete controls and by the terms you agree to it does technically break the tos we all agree to when use an OS. Just because its popular doesn't make it legal. While some OS do look the other way apple will not. Never have and never will
And that is why apple has earned the ire of many geeks and nerds of this generation. They are as reviled as Microsoft was, a decade before. They'll learn once those who they depend on for support, i.e. their customers, abandon them. Some sooner, some later, some never, but they will feel pain in the only place it counts, their pocketbook. Perhaps then, they can reevaluate their attitude toward their customers and the public in general.
zelendel said:
Your right the phone is yours but your only licencing to use the software. There is a huge difference.
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GPL says you can do whatever the hell you want as long as you post the source code if you distribute it. There's no legal grounds for legally blocking rooting Android devices, but Apple would be pleased as punch to have iOS jailbreaking become a violation of the DMCA again.
synaesthetic said:
GPL says you can do whatever the hell you want as long as you post the source code if you distribute it. There's no legal grounds for legally blocking rooting Android devices, but Apple would be pleased as punch to have iOS jailbreaking become a violation of the DMCA again.
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GPL only covers the kernel not the OS