Viewsonic announced it's Honeycomb tablet @ 7 inches. Which means they have the HC source code... which means they hate the gtab community.... because we don't get it, even for modding purposes.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/12/viewsonic-7x-shrinks-honeycomb-to-7-inches-for-the-tiny-handed/
They don't hate the Gtab community. Don't try to anthropomorphize a corporation because you will only end up sad and depressed. All Viewsonic wants is to make money by putting out products and then putting out more products. We are numbers, not faces.
Fair enough. I suppose I am a bit idealistic that they would continue to support something older. Perhaps more my frustration is the lack of source code when it could be given... but that it an entitlement mentality I suppose.
forgiventhief said:
Fair enough. I suppose I am a bit idealistic that they would continue to support something older. Perhaps more my frustration is the lack of source code when it could be given... but that it an entitlement mentality I suppose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
stop caving because one person says something!!!!
and to the user that commented to the OP, thought the info you stated (numbers, not faces) is true, STOP ACTING LIKE IT'S ACCEPTABLE.
To many 300 to 500 dollars is a lot of money and the company has a moral obligation to support it for a reasonable amount of time. This was in no way accomplished by viewsonic. Horrible business ethics and I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER VIEWSONIC PRODUCT. you vote with your purchasing power and viewsonic lost mine, my family's and my friend's votes.
as an aside, I suspect seeing all the progress made viewsonic might try to "save the day" and eventually release something for our g tab honeycomb flavored. I'm not fooled and you shouldn't be either. Your support should be for the devs like roebeet. If your running honeycomb and you haven't donated to him or the adamdevs you should feel worse than viewsonic.
vote with your money, I VOTE FOR OUR DEV COMMUNITY!
(before I get any posts about talking about donation, donation doesn't imply 3,000 dollars. Even if it's only a dollar, it says something.)
You do realize viewsonic just slapped their name on the Malta, right? You're mad at the wrong company.
schettj said:
You do realize viewsonic just slapped their name on the Malta, right? You're mad at the wrong company.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't matter, though. As soon as VS slapped their name on it, they've adopted it.
The way VS is treating the gtab is worse than just numbers. They have intentionally ignored it, not giving it any press or anything at all. There isn't even a direct link to the gtab from their main website.
The gtab is doing way better than other "real" VS devices. It's the number 1 seller on amazon for goodness sake. I'm still baffled why VS isn't putting more energy into the gtab. It's like they don't even wanna mention it.
I think it is a way to get more people to move to their ViewPad line and off of the GTab. I will not switch to their new line just because they put 3.0 on it. Our Devs will get a port over to the GTab and it will blow their new line out of the water. Shady tactics if you ask me.
goodintentions said:
Doesn't matter, though. As soon as VS slapped their name on it, they've adopted it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they don't have any code... they have no development resources. They have a brand name. Whooo.
Seriously.
goodintentions said:
It's the number 1 seller on amazon for goodness sake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it was for the week it was on blowout $280 clearance. Look, it's a great bit of first gen tegra2 tablet hardware with a dreadful screen that would make it unsellable at any price other than "half of what everyone else charges".
That's dropping under $200-$225 now, which is probably well below the breakeven point. So enjoy it, and support the hackers hacking away, but forget about any serious support for it from VS. You'll be much happier.
yes, the code for our G-tabs belongs to Malata, but so does the code for the Vega and the Adam. They are rumored to be at least getting official GB roms WITH hardware acceleration. VS is to blame for not providing us with that as well. If they do, but are keeping it hush-hush, I'll change my opinion.
Of course, Vega and Adam are running on the new 1.2 bootloader (always have been). Now VS teases us with an update that they pull, that is on the 1.2 bootlaoder? In essence, VS provided our devs, very briefly, with the tools needed to port any updates from Adam or Vega. So, while not actually giving us what we've requested, they are letting other companies, and third party developers do their work for them.
It may be that Malata has abandoned VS for their lack of support for the G-Tab, so Malata cut them off from future development releases.
snapz54 said:
and to the user that commented to the OP, thought the info you stated (numbers, not faces) is true, STOP ACTING LIKE IT'S ACCEPTABLE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say it's acceptable. In fact it makes me just as mad as it seems to have made you and I have made my opinion on that fact known many times on this board and the Nvidia developer board. I'm just saying that the people who want these updates are currently in the minority. I agree that we should get updates but we have to realize that might not happen. In fact I'd much rather use homegrown software from the fine developers on XDA, Cyanogen, and any other dev website that's working for better things for the Gtab than anything Viewsonic/Malata/Nvidia puts out anyhow.
This whole frequently updated software thing is new to the world. I mean think about Apple and Microsoft. Microsoft updated like once every five years. Apple was better, but in both cases users were made to pay for the updates. Now we buy these devices and expect free software updates indefinetly? Sounds good to me, but what about these companies? Where is the money for them? What incentive to they have to churn out more software at no charge to the customer? I'm just saying that there are two sides to this argument and both should be represented.
adampdx said:
This whole frequently updated software thing is new to the world. I mean think about Apple and Microsoft. Microsoft updated like once every five years. Apple was better, but in both cases users were made to pay for the updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What color is the sky in your world?
The problem with Android is exactly the problem Google is trying to get a handle on....
Fragmentation.
When you leave updates up to the the hardware manufactures, you're guaranteed to screw your customers. Because the only way the HW guys make any money at all is by having the customer buy new hardware to get the shiny new features.
Hopefully Google will be able to beat these guys into submission, but I do feel for them... they thought they were getting in on a great thing with a cheap OS for their hardware, and instead they were turned into commodity manufacturers delivering Google ad revenue to Google. Ah well.
I'd much rather use homegrown software from the fine developers on XDA, Cyanogen, and any other dev website that's working for better things for the Gtab than anything Viewsonic/Malata/Nvidia puts out anyhow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it's these updates that custom rom devs use to get the information they need to make their roms. If we ever get official hardware acceleration it will be bundled into one of the officially released updates. The drivers can then be added to existing roms, or future roms. The bottom line is that we NEED official updates if we are to ever get the G-tablet to reach it's full potential.
Now we buy these devices and expect free software updates indefinetly? Sounds good to me, but what about these companies?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These companies, namely VS knows that they put out a crap product, in regard to software. In fact, they, at one point, directed their customers HERE for support for their device. They released a product in which the hardware outclassed the software. What we paid for was hardware, plain and simple. only recently have people actually said they're using stock firmware and it doesn't suck. Prior to the latest updates (3588 and later) I would suspect that everyone that bought a G-tablet, including myself, KNEW that they were going to have to flash a custom Rom. Just a few days ago, another 850+ G-tabs were sold on Woot, again. At one point it was the top seller on Amazon. VS has to save a little face and continue to support their software, and yes, provide updates.
Fortunately for VS, Notion Ink seems more interested in updating their product for us...of course, VS had to sneak in the 1.2 dev branch that's shared by the Adam.
some good points have been made, but none of the ones supporting VS have been valid.
slapping your name on something instantly slaps responsibility on you, this "passing the buck" mentality is a big part of whats wrong with the world. Everyone can blame someone else and nothing gets done.
The consequences in some small part are now realized. Myself and others will not support viewsonic in any capacity in the future. Actions like this catch up with you, VS is a horrible company that saw an opportunity to make a quick buck without a moments thought of how it might affect anyone.
stop supporting these type of actions, they are wrong.
snapz54 said:
some good points have been made, but none of the ones supporting VS have been valid.
slapping your name on something instantly slaps responsibility on you, this "passing the buck" mentality is a big part of whats wrong with the world. Everyone can blame someone else and nothing gets done.
The consequences in some small part are now realized. Myself and others will not support viewsonic in any capacity in the future. Actions like this catch up with you, VS is a horrible company that saw an opportunity to make a quick buck without a moments thought of how it might affect anyone.
stop supporting these type of actions, they are wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you bought an $800.00 xoom?
snapz54 said:
stop supporting these type of actions, they are wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be "don't buy the product"
Since I wanted a device I can experiment with, and didn't want to spend more than $280, this was the only device available.
I bought it knowing what it was. An orphan device with no significant Vendor support.
i thought google said they aren't going to release honeycomb SDK? so doesn't that mean manufacturers are not allowed to release it?
but i guess if we buy the next VS tablet. we can port a honeycomb rom from that to the gtab.
ninditsu said:
i thought google said they aren't going to release honeycomb SDK? so doesn't that mean manufacturers are not allowed to release it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're confusing SDK (Software Development Kit) with Source Code. That said, up to this point, Google has been reluctant to release the Source Code for Honeycomb for - what I can only assume is - the purpose of reducing hardware fragmentation and QA purposes.
schettj said:
What color is the sky in your world?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha! Always good to get a laugh out of these heated discussions. As far as fragmentation goes, I agree. It's a problem that Google created and now they're trying to fix. I'm not sure I can imagine a world where there are several hundred different pieces of tech floating around from different manufactures that all use software provided by a singular, separate company. Oh, wait...that sounds like WINDOWS. He he... I wouldn't dare compare our beloved Google to the likes of Microsoft. Never.
schettj said:
That would be "don't buy the product"
Since I wanted a device I can experiment with, and didn't want to spend more than $280, this was the only device available.
I bought it knowing what it was. An orphan device with no significant Vendor support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. These things are on clearance for a reason. A lot of people here have unrealistic expectations. Companies don't make money by pouring resources into devices that nobody bought. I remember buying an Atari Lynx back in the day and only had it for about a year before everybody stopped making games for it and they were pulled off the shelves. I never once thought that Atari hated me.
Related
Thanx to the XDA community for your support - Via @ViewSonic on Twitter!
Nice work guys!!!
It's things like this that make me so furious that I'm not the one calling the shots at ViewSonic. They are sitting on a gold mine right now but it's covered in feces and only devs/techies can see it.
No political tie is worth the amount of $$ they are losing on this product right now (the only logical reason I can think of for them to keep TapNTap alive) and all they have to do is release it with a ROM comparable to VegaN or hell even stock android and these things wouldn't be able to stay on shelves more than 5 minutes.
ViewSonic PLEASE get your sh*t together and release s/w that truly shows off the capabilities of this amazing hardware!!!
teleknEsis said:
It's things like this that make me so furious that I'm not the one calling the shots at ViewSonic. They are sitting on a gold mine right now but it's covered in feces and only devs/techies can see it.
No political tie is worth the amount of $$ they are losing on this product right now (the only logical reason I can think of for them to keep TapNTap alive) and all they have to do is release it with a ROM comparable to VegaN or hell even stock android and these things wouldn't be able to stay on shelves more than 5 minutes.
ViewSonic PLEASE get your sh*t together and release s/w that truly shows off the capabilities of this amazing hardware!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, chill the F out. Viewsonic just acknowledged that the software mods are a good thing, that they -might- open the possibility of uninstalling TnT, and most important, they're releasing the kernel sources this week.
They're giving the community the tools, giving Staples the Finger on the internet, and are saying "our hardware is badass and you guys are making us proud of our product. Go Community!".
So chill out.
cybik said:
Dude, chill the F out. Viewsonic just acknowledged that the software mods are a good thing, that they -might- open the possibility of uninstalling TnT, and most important, they're releasing the kernel sources this week.
They're giving the community the tools, giving Staples the Finger on the internet, and are saying "our hardware is badass and you guys are making us proud of our product. Go Community!".
So chill out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, your icon reminds me of something: When is Rush's new album coming out?
Though articulated in a crude manner, the points are valid. The device should not have been released as is and the FW package was a dysfunctional mess. Staples reacted to the high returns and incurred costs due to those returns- I would have done the same thing. There are more products than just this tablet to be concerned about (as I am sure you appreciate).
The grand question still remains: The CEO stated no "layers" over Android, yet the antithesis of such a position was released. Tap UI is hands down, the WORST Android layer published by a company and the hardware simply did not work correctly. Due to hardware specific to each device, some form of interface is needed so everything works... but Tap UI--- DANG!
A first product release by a company in a newer market should set a good example- that is KEY to gaining marketshare in newer markets. Well, that and price point Using the excuse that "another OEM" made the product can be used for about 90% of current consumer electronics. VS can not use the excuse- consumers are indifferent to this.
I think VS needs some props too. I mean they messed up releasing a messed up device but in a little less than 3 months they have tried to fix it. How many times have companies that said they'd release an update (albeit a sorry one) on a certain date but fail to do so. Not sure what happened to the flash update but still the effort is there which should at least give them some of their integrity back, right?
Now if they really do release the kernel source this week, I'd say they are ok in my book.
cybik said:
Dude, chill the F out. Viewsonic just acknowledged that the software mods are a good thing, that they -might- open the possibility of uninstalling TnT, and most important, they're releasing the kernel sources this week.
They're giving the community the tools, giving Staples the Finger on the internet, and are saying "our hardware is badass and you guys are making us proud of our product. Go Community!".
So chill out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes finally they are taking a step in the right direction and listening to the people but it took staples pulling the rug out from under them for it to happen. Regardless, mad props to ViewSonic for acting quickly and other oems should be playing close attention right now *cousamsunggh*
Well I hope they follow through with their promises. I hate seeing good products falling by the wayside. Once modified I can't keep this thing in my control as wife and kids use over their laptops! Viewsonic owes the developers a nod of thanks.
Pretty damn cool a big company even acknowledges us. No matter what we're a very small % of the market. In fact, most companies intentionally lock us out.
I just bought a G Tablet today at Sears, thanks to the XDA community (the ONLY reason I chose it). I went to my local Staples first to see if they had one to demo, and of course I was told they were recalled and couldn't sell them even if they hadn't sent them all back yet. So they lost my business to the only Sears (one of about 20) in my area I could find that actually had one in stock.
After reading the thread and watching a Youtube video posted here regarding Viewsonic not supporting the G Tablet but migrating on to their next version of this device, that is not all true.
I called Viewsonic and expressed wanting access to Honeycomb as official release to G Tablet customers by Viewsonic and was told they are logging the calls. So people need to at least call in once, at (866) 501-6405. The info goes to their sales team and they are in contact with Google regarding getting Honeycomb. No release date as of yet but it looks favorable because it is in Google's best interest Honeycomb gives us access to Android Marketplace. We can move it along faster by increasing the numbers (immediate need) through telephoning.
Thanks, all for your support!
FYI I praised the device first, which I am happy with it, and then stated I was interested in getting an official copy of Honeycomb from them.
Wow. Sounds cool, who knows when viewsonic will get honeycomb. With that and with some marketing, the viewsonic g-tablet would be much better than most tablets in the market. XD
PS: I would call but i am in mexico. Hope many people call.
Pazzu510 said:
Wow. Sounds cool, who knows when viewsonic will get honeycomb. With that and with some marketing, the viewsonic g-tablet would be much better than most tablets in the market. XD
PS: I would call but i am in mexico. Hope many people call.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's a toll free number given
dont forget to also ask for official flash support. still waiting.
Sm0k3d 0uT said:
it's a toll free number given
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those who are not familiar with other countries and how telephones work - Toll-free numbers do not work internationally.
Some numbers are good for US and Canada, but I have never heard of a toll-free US number that can be dialed from Mexico.
LOL. Maybe smoke a little less?
What is this "Mexico" you speak of? I am pretty sure the United States and Canada are the only countries/continents on the planet Earth. I learned that in school! (I am being facetious by the way).
You might be able to call toll-free over Skype. I know they are working on getting more countries covered through Skype.
XD. Yes i am from mexico and even if we got our own toll free numbers, they are not the same as the US ones; but dont worry, i bet i am one of the only people that has a g-tablet in the country(apart from those guys in the border) and i dont think much of them know much about flashing or other things like that.
Good thing is that you dont lose much calls to viewsonic because we are minority, bad thing is that i cant help with this. XD
But i got your back(Moraly).
BTW: Viewsonic should think about selling here. People are liking tablets a lot, they have a good product for a good price and the target-market for that kind of tablet is huge. All we have is mediocre overpriced tablets like a 16gb ipad for about 1,020 dollars and galaxy for the same price; I think we would be lucky to get the xoom for less than 1350 dollars(That is why i researched and bought the great g-tablet[if you wanted to know])
nunjabusiness said:
For those who are not familiar with other countries and how telephones work - Toll-free numbers do not work internationally.
Some numbers are good for US and Canada, but I have never heard of a toll-free US number that can be dialed from Mexico.
LOL. Maybe smoke a little less?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually, there are such things as International Toll Free numbers.
Why not try it first then comment later
+1 for call in. Took less than 5 minutes.
the devs here will probably have honeycomb working long before viewsonic does (if they do decide to provide an upgrade). A lot of phones right now are just getting Froyo while Gingerbread has already been released
just called
the guy told me that it would be logical to upgrade to honeycomb,but said they have no official word on the matter. Not sure but the guy sounded optimistic to me,not really sure how to explain that.
While I applaud their commitment and determination, there are just some better benefits you get from having an official copy. Like product updates when they discover some flaws in the OS.
The devs on this site do provide a wealth of knowledge when it comes to hardware add-ons, upgrades and tweaks so I will continue to frequent the site. With any website we all realize it is a numbers game, whatever you can do to keep the frequent site visits. To each his own preference of how they would like to get their hands on Honeycomb.
Waiting on Honeycomb
If i have to buy a XOOM just get get the software; I will ; then i'll return it within 14 days to get my Money Back/
If i have to buy a XOOM just get get the software; I will ; then i'll return it within 14 days to get my Money Back/
Not necessary, it is in Google's best interest to release the software to all android tabs. How some are making this personal when it is business is beyond me.
So they didn't support using froyo, on android tabs. Quite understandable, but the bottom line is people want android so bad they are willing to support any version of it on a tab with their purchasing power. As a business owner, I would find that complimentary. Not too mention, these are potential marketplace customers ripe for the picking. Not hard to deduce they will make the OS available based on the "built-in customer" base.
So they didn't support using froyo, on android tabs. Quite understandable, but the bottom line is people want android so bad they are willing to support any version of it on a tab with their purchasing power. As a business owner, I would find that complimentary. Not too mention, these are potential marketplace customers ripe for the picking. Not hard to deduce they will make the OS available based on the "built-in customer" base.
Not to lead the thread too far away, but anyone else amused that the Xoom comes without an official Flash version on it? So our $359 tablet beats their $800 tablet when it comes to actually doing things?
EwanG said:
Not to lead the thread too far away, but anyone else amused that the Xoom comes without an official Flash version on it? So our $359 tablet beats their $800 tablet when it comes to actually doing things?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I saw that I died laughing........ And no WiFi units for some time down the road. I love my G tablet.
Well...we don't have an official flash either....I'm sure xoom will work with unofficial flash also...
And the Xoom will have flash 10.2 within a few weeks...
http://www.droid-life.com/2011/02/2...e+(droid+life)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
For all intents and purposes, unless hardware issues prevent it, there's no reason VS would have to not port Honeycomb to the G Tab eventually. It's a matter of time.
Of course what many of people have to realize is that their Android build isn't done in-house, so they don't really have 100% control of the 'timing' or direct control over the detailed elements in the UI.
For example, HTC/Motorola/LG/Samsung/Dell, etc. routes are more or less direct - Google releases their SDK, they grab it, they grab the newest drivers/fw etc from their board vendor(s) and voila, they release their own UI to various devices. This is the fastest method...even though they all take a while to release updates in any case.
Viewsonic however, seems to depend on TnT which is a customized UI from a different company designed for these type of tablets....which means it's up to someone else to incorporate the newest Tegra drivers from Nvidia and the newest software and firmware from the part manuf. of the "Harmony" build - whether that comes from Malata directly or is worked on by the TnT team/VS team, I don't know. I do know that they don't build TnT, so that's an extra step in that process.
It's not as direct a route per se, which means that it will likely take longer to see updates and that the updates are not guaranteed to include the most recent software, because of the extended 'journey' of software development.
If VS were able to cut out TnT however, and use 'good' in-house devs and a 'vanilla' OS then it would be quicker for sure and possibly better for the general consumer.
There was a response by VS the other day in here somewhere that seemed to POSSIBLY hint toward a change to that? (hopefully - but I could be reading into it incorrectly).
I'd LOVE to have a good official VS android build as well. I really appreciate the devs and what they do, but relying on xda CAN be risky business. It's not unheard of for a xda dev to move on from one device to another or from one flavor of ROM to the next. Then you find that your favorite ROM gets less time than another or that it gets left behind completely. That's human nature. If I were a dev. I would work on the device I like and the flavor of Android/UI/ROM I prefer, so I completely understand. An official 'channel' is great in that you know (more or less) that you're going to get your updates and fixes.
In a perfect Android world, these companies would just give us an option....
brand new vanilla including newest drivers/firmware and maybe at some later point, their 'flavor'. Alas, this isn't Windows 7 and I guess it's just not in the cards to play out that way. So we just have to be patient. I doubt calling in will help more so than them already seeing overwhelming interest both in twitter and in here. But I suppose when you really want something, nothing beats a fail but a try.
http://mashable.com/2011/03/24/honeycomb-delay/
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
just saw this. Not happy about it. The source may lead to buggy phone versions, but its also very important to everyone who will get left behind trying to get 3.0 upgrades from their manufacturer.
Now that's not good ...
Sniff.. sniff.. HONEYCREAMS! Why devs no give me honeycreams for my gtab?
I'm guessing this is not good for my drooling alter ego.
It is not release to the general public, but manufactures still got access to it, so maybe VS will have it updated
It is possible that Google's attempt to not shoot itself in the right foot will result in it shooting itself in the left foot.
Not surprised at all
They do not want to see sub 300$ device with their flagship os, they want big partner to ramp-up production and sales first...
I am far from certain that company get it for free this time, same for us... hey it's google not the vatican, I place google not far from apple on my list of big bad ugly corp...
Beside as much as I like to play with a new release I am not into such an hurry since Honeycomb is kindalike a new os not 100 % compatible with the current apps it seems
wow really.....tsk.....tsk by that definition it mean the xoom wasnt ready and there it is in the stores for purchase......thats just shameful ow well i sold my gtab days ago and my ipad 2 will be in my hand april 15, between this and the security problems that was in the market (i actually got an email from google and i dont know which app it was if anyone knows the names of the apps tell me) im off android for a while
I would like to sympathize but I can't I dislike false information, the security issue you mention is transmission of IMEI... big deal... apps store like handhango where asking for it to do DRM for ages...
If you wanted and preferred an IPAD that's your right, we can understand that build quality is there...
P00r said:
I would like to sympathize but I can't I dislike false information, the security issue you mention is transmission of IMEI... big deal... nokia and other apps store like handhango where asking for it to do DRM for ages...
If you wanted and preferred an IPAD that's your right, we can understand that build quality is there...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what false information.....i just said i got and email from google telling me some apps was taking information from my tab and ask someone to tell me their names
Yes... The only way i see for now is to ask viewsonic for the update.
Do you know any way to make viewsonic make it faster???
P00r said:
Not surprised at all
They do not want to see sub 300$ device with their flagship os, they want big partner to ramp-up production and sales first...
I am far from certain that company get it for free this time, same for us... hey it's google not the vatican, I place google not far from apple on my list of big bad ugly corp... ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2
They wanna be the new Microsoft, tried to mess with Fiber and probably got spanked on the bottom by the big boys....maybe Microsoft will be the new Google, and apple.... well apple makes a solid product, i dig my macbook, but Steve Jobs can suck it.
AT&T buys T-Mobile and THIS in the same week?! FML.
If they release honeycomb open source then no one will buy motorola xoom. Its not even about modifiying it on phone OS. Who will waste so much time on that. They not going to give the os out for a while. Better hope VS will make one for us
Have we so quickly forgotten reports that the version of Honeycomb on the Xoom leaves something to be desired?
And witness the results of a phone version of Android with an aftermarket U.I. overlay on our g tablets.
If Google is going to compete with Apple for the mainstream market, they need a good solid operating system with several successful tablet releases to improve customer perceptions.
Much as I love my g tablet, I have no qualms admitting that the iPad is miles better out of the box and that is what the general public wants.
Well finished products and a slick marketing machine are Apple's strengths, underestimate them at your peril.
I don't think Viewsonic are part of the open handset alliance. If they aren't part of the OHA I doubt they're getting access to Honeycomb either.
So now all we have to do is assemble team of highly skilled agents, break into Google's Mountain View complex, and steal the Honeycomb source code... I've seen Mission Impossible and Office Space. It can be done.
Who's with me?
From my CM powered Evo
It's kind of disappointing but it won't keep me from enjoying my G-Tablet.
honey....not right now
i have just taken a bite of gingerbread. i still need sometime to enjoy, do not want to spoil it with honey yet.
The problem isn't that they are not releasing Honeycomb this minute, or this month is they are saying they won't be releasing it anytime soon. Also there is rumors saying they are telling the vendors with HC they will get to keep it to themselves until IC, which is complete BS.
If Google wants to pull that then I will just not spend any money on apps, upgraded phones/tablets until they decide open source is open sourse. I will use they money to donate to dev's instead.
It's just really annoying that we could have people working on HC right now (or maybe a month or 2 from now), but it appears Google thinks HC shouldn't be released and instead kept to itself until the merge in IC. Well if it's not good enough to be open source they shouldn't have released the Xoom and any other HC tablet!
Chanced across this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5uhnJxmKqU
Shows how BAD the stock rom (even its successors) are. Tablet lagged, wifi failed, browser didn't load and something force closed during its show case.
But the guy said "we are expected to be on gingerbread and honeycomb by mid year." Good news?
They should just hire the developers her on XDA (roebeet, rothnic, pershoot, gojimi) to get even a chance.
Actually, the way viewsonic operates looks more like communism than anything else. We know what they came out with doesn't work. They know what they came out with doesn't work. And yet, they insist on continuing to do the same damn thing over and over. It's like having a 5 year plan on top of a 5 year plan over and over even though millions people are starving. They (viewsonic) insist on continuing with TapnTap UI even though it caused the biggest return rate they ever saw. Communism!
The xda community is like capitalism. This is an open market environment where people who are capable contribute what they have and users are presented with many different choices to choose from. Take OC, for example. We can either use Persh's or we can use Clem's kernel.
We've learned from history that communism simply doesn't work. Why? Because people have no choice. What's given to people to use isn't the best but rather what the originator could present to the premiere. We all know how sucky TapnTap UI is, but the fact of the matter is TapnTap has access to the premiere, aka Viewsonic's board. It doesn't matter if TapnTap suck ass. Just like that submarine called the widow maker. It doesn't matter if people keep dying from radiation exposure and all of that good stuff. The premiere says people have to use it and people use it. That's how communism works.
Not to turn this into a political thread, but we have never witnessed pure Communism.
What we have witnessed in history are Authoritarian governments using the term Communism or Socialism and even Democracy, as a way to deceive the people into supporting them, until the people realize too late; that they have given away their freedoms.
Many countries claim to be democracies, except they rig the ballot box and 'disappear' people who oppose them. Communism, Socialism, Democracies; the labels don't matter, the results do.
Does Apple or Microsoft allow end users the ability to easily 'root' their devices or even offer their code to the community, like ViewSonic has? If not, are they communist-like?
ViewSonic has created a truly bad UI. That's because they're not in the UI business and unfortunately have made several bad choices. Do you really believe they wanted to take back all those devices and receive the bad press? They have paid for those choices in market-share and reputation, just as the free market demands.
Further, they have responded to recent user demands and have in the past released their code, which allows the 'capitalism' on XDA you cheer about. Without code, you can have no choice. Without Nvidia releasing their drivers, Gingerbread will be doomed not to have hardware acceleration. If they don't release their code, is Nvidia communist-like?
A truly Authoritarian company would not have responded to the emails, tweets and phone calls of average users and they certainly wouldn't have offered any code or tried to deal with the users on this forum.
Try getting that response from Apple or Microsoft.
What you are witnessing in ViewSonic is not some take on Communism, but the typical results of a business that merely 'rebrands' merchandise with no real understanding of what the device does and more importantly what it should do.
It's no different than a company sending a job lot of talking Barbies to South America and not bothering to check if the dolls spoke English or Spanish. Bad research? Yes, but if I have razor thin profit margins, do I really invest more money into the hole I am already in or do I just fill it in and start digging somewhere else?
I guarantee you, someone looked at the numbers involved in this mess and decided to band-aid just enough to shut the community up, while positioning the community to help them push their next product.
You have to remember that for the average user and there are many on the board who have said so, the latest TNT UI, is 'good enough' and that's all ViewSonic needs to produce... Good enough.
jholmes5 said:
Not to turn this into a political thread, but we have never witnessed pure Communism.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. I was using the word communism to avoid this very thing... a political debate. That said, I was comparing one specific aspect of these communist/authoritarian/goo-gaga/hoogabooga (call it whatever you want) to what we're seeing in VS in regard to the gtab.
Everyone, including VS, knows that TapnTap UI simply is sluggish and doesn't do the gtab's hardware justice. And yet, VS continues to use the TapnTap UI.
It's like the 5 year plan on top of the 5 year plan that starved millions of people. Everyone knew that those plans never worked, and yet those communist/authoritarian/goo-gaga/hoogabooga (call it whatever you want) kept using those plans. Sure, they eventually improved upon those plans to a "good enough" state.
Does Apple or Microsoft allow end users the ability to easily 'root' their devices or even offer their code to the community, like ViewSonic has? If not, are they communist-like?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but you're forgetting something. By law, VS had to release the source code under the GNU license. There have been companies completely liquidated because they broke this law.
ViewSonic has created a truly bad UI. That's because they're not in the UI business and unfortunately have made several bad choices. Do you really believe they wanted to take back all those devices and receive the bad press? They have paid for those choices in market-share and reputation, just as the free market demands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And again, I was comparing this one aspect of the whole gtab return rate fiasco to those communist/authoritarian/goo-gaga/hoogabooga (call it whatever you want) regimes. Do you think those regimes wanted to see millions of their people starve to death? And yet there they were kept making the same mistakes over and over. We're seeing the same damn thing with VS. They don't want to see those high return rates, and yet here we are with VS continuing to use TapnTap UI.
Further, they have responded to recent user demands and have in the past released their code, which allows the 'capitalism' on XDA you cheer about. Without code, you can have no choice. Without Nvidia releasing their drivers, Gingerbread will be doomed not to have hardware acceleration. If they don't release their code, is Nvidia communist-like?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've a different comparison to this one particular thing as well. The gtab to VS seems to be that one child that the parent wanted to become a doctor but then he ended up being an engineer so the parent is ashamed and doesn't want to mention him at gatherings. When it comes to it, the parent proclaims that he hasn't disowned his son. That said, he isn't fond of his son either.
The gtab is very popular because of the hardware. And yet VS continues to shy away from the device. They only mention it once or twice when they are pressured to do so by the community.
A truly Authoritarian company would not have responded to the emails, tweets and phone calls of average users and they certainly wouldn't have offered any code or tried to deal with the users on this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, please, a truly anything wouldn't do a lot of things. A truly android tablet would have market right out of the box. A truly dog wouldn't eat vegatable (my dog last year went through and ate all my veg in the garden). A truly cat wouldn't come when you call it (my friend's cat comes when you call her). What's your point?
Try getting that response from Apple or Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said those companies don't resemble communist/authoritarian/goo-gaga/hoogabooga (call it whatever you want) in certain areas. Take windows vista, for example. To this day after update after update and service pack, it's still a piece of crap.
What you are witnessing in ViewSonic is not some take on Communism, but the typical results of a business that merely 'rebrands' merchandise with no real understanding of what the device does and more importantly what it should do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, what I'm witnessing is you not seeing my point in comparing just one aspect of the matter and instead nitpick other things. For example, suppose I say "Like you, I need to use the bathroom on a daily basis." Imagine how annoyed I'd be if you respond with "But you're not like me because I was born here and you weren't." Sure, I can't dispute that, but that's not what I was talking about.
Ok guys.... let's get back to the topic of the OP or else we'll close this thread
I was quite happy with my stock G tablet until this latest update. Back to being sluggish at least on web surfing.
If this was Apple they would try to shame you for believing anything is even wrong.
Woah haha...we've digressed quite a bit eh. Anyway, i think Viewsonic or the OEM just contracted TapnTap to do this for the g tab. Can't really blame VS for everything -> if the startup was a little more capable, everything would be fine.
amusedkid said:
Woah haha...we've digressed quite a bit eh. Anyway, i think Viewsonic or the OEM just contracted TapnTap to do this for the g tab. Can't really blame VS for everything -> if the startup was a little more capable, everything would be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why can't we blame them for everything? They were the one who decided to put that terrible TapnTap UI. And even after that initial mass returns because of the sluggish UI performance, all they did to try to fix it was change all the later ones to classic view.
In engineering, we call this the no-common-sense engineer. Do something, see that it doesn't work, try to do it again and again and again.
Go ahead then.changes nothing though.
Sent from my GTablet-TnT-Lite using Tapatalk
amusedkid said:
Go ahead then.changes nothing though.
Sent from my GTablet-TnT-Lite using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it changes nothing. VS doesn't seem to feel bad about keep putting the TapnTap UI on there, so it doesn't matter what we think.
goodintentions said:
I know it changes nothing. VS doesn't seem to feel bad about keep putting the TapnTap UI on there, so it doesn't matter what we think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are plenty of tablets out there without the TapnTap, why do you stick with it?
As far I'm concern, that TapnTap makes the ViewSonic WAF capable tablet. I have mine on the Fidge and she can't live without it now. This is a great software, not perfect yet but lot more user friendly than the majority at this price tag. If we have a tablet today, it's because of TapnTap, that about it.
I feel you will be better served with an Android no name tablet that you can dismantle and hack the way you want.
Again, this tablet is not for you.
Charles
cjean said:
There are plenty of tablets out there without the TapnTap, why do you stick with it?
As far I'm concern, that TapnTap makes the ViewSonic WAF capable tablet. I have mine on the Fidge and she can't live without it now. This is a great software, not perfect yet but lot more user friendly than the majority at this price tag. If we have a tablet today, it's because of TapnTap, that about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yet the high return rates because of TapnTap tells us otherwise. In this case, TapnTap decided to sacrifice speed and efficiency for the sake of user friendliness.
goodintentions said:
And yet the high return rates because of TapnTap tells us otherwise. In this case, TapnTap decided to sacrifice speed and efficiency for the sake of user friendliness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like the "Evolution" of Windows....
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.