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Before I get started, please don't scream. I am just *waiting* for the douchebag assault to begin, because after all, this is an internet forum and it'll happen come hell or high water no matter what I say. This post is not for the douchebags, it's for the reasonable people who are willing to discuss, listen and talk in a rational way.
I got my first fuze the day before launch (November 10th), and out of the gate it was problematic. Now, I was and still am enamored by the feature set, and the hardware is amazing when it's working right. My first fuze locked up and crashed programs *constantly*. After a week and a half I exchanged it for another, and this was a better experience, but still flawed.
Fuze #2 never once locked up, but it did crash programs pretty frequently. Not every day and not every program and not even consistently, but it did so with enough frequency to be damn annoying. The AT&T software load, as everyone already knows, is complete ****. It makes a 528Mhz phone with 8 times the RAM of my old Wizard feel slower than the Wizard with a hacked ROM, and that's just sad. I've been using my Wizard (a cingular 8125) since launch, and I can honestly say that unlike most phones the experience only kept getting *better* as the hardware aged, and it was able to do so as a direct result of the fine folks of XDA who have cooked up some really amazing ROM's. The work you guys do is phenomenal and it only gets better as time goes on.
And so I loaded up a custom ROM from here on my Fuze. It was, to say the least, WORLDS better than the AT&T stock ROM. But it still had its annoyances. Some programs would still crash. There was still hesitation here and there when using the Manila 3D UI. Finding and acquiring software to run on it is a pain. Don't get me wrong--Windows Mobile has GOBS of great software available and I've blown hours upon hours finding it, playing with it, enjoying it, over the last 2 and a half years.
Of course, that's part of the problem--to get the really good stuff you have to search endlessly all over the web to find the really great stuff for WinMo. XDA is a terrific place because there is so much stuff discussed and linked to, but even here you have to trudge through miles of posts and it's a pain, plus there's the whole process of downloading, unarchiving, copying to the device, installing to the device--only to do it all over again when the next great ROM comes out. This isn't the fault of anyone here, but it's evidence of a problem that's grown beyond the community's ability to solve--the problem is with Windows Mobile itself and the infrastructure that does--or more accurately does NOT--support it.
Let me 'splain. When I finally had enough of my Fuze, I took it back to AT&T to find something else. I dicked with the Blackberry, I hated it. I've always hated blackberry, both from an infrastructure support side and from an interface side. So that was out. I've never been an Apple guy EVER. In college we had some piece of **** Mac's that were just miserable to use and I learned very well to hate them, so I hadn't even considered an iPhone.
And then I tried it. My first response, as an official Mac hater, was to find its flaws. The camera is mediocre (2mp? LAME!). But then, I have a REAL camera for taking any serious pictures (let's face it, no cell phone camera is going to replace a nice Canon or Nikon any time soon for high end photography). The screen resolution isn't as nice as the Fuze...yet it's still better than the Wizard was, and it's not so low that it ends the world. I hate that there are no hardware buttons except for Home, Power, Mute and the volume toggle, but then, the Fuze wasn't replete with buttons either and I'd already weaned myself off the Wizard's multiple buttons anyway. And it pisses me off that I can't use a friggin' MicroSD card to cheaply expand my storage.
But then I started to see what the device is really all about, and what really blew me away is how easy it is to use and to access a fat library of good apps, both paid and free. I don't even have to leave the device, I can browse it all straight from the phone, install it straight from the phone in a single step, and when I plug it into my PC it's all synced. When the next software update happens I just sync and everything I installed is put right back where I wanted it to be.
In short, I finally see why people are tripping over the iPhone. It's not the hardware, because let's face it the iPhone is outclassed in hardware by plenty of phones, including the Fuze. It's the interface, it's the software, it's the ease of use. And for me, at this point in my life where I'm trying to do more with my time than ever before, that makes it a great device choice for me. The iPhone, simply enough, will save me time and effort, and it enables me to do things I just can't do with Windows Mobile.
Now, my sincere hope is that WinMo 7 fixes these many issues. I hope it comes with an easy and fast UI. I hope the devices have multitouch screens. I hope there is finally an integrated backend infrastructure and an app store that nets easy access to both developers and consumers of applications and games. I hope it standardizes on a required minimum of built in storage but outdoes Apple by allowing you to expand it further with MicroSD (or whatever the hell comes next, but man do I hope NanoSD isn't next or I'll never be able to find my goddamn cards). And for goodness sakes, STOP vendors from loading the damn phones with all this bloat!
Compared to what Apple's done with the iPhone OS it feels like Windows Mobile is standing still, like Microsoft has dropped the ball and just stood there slack jawed as it rolled away. Maybe it's because they're so focused on kicking Sony in the nuts in the console wars, I dunno. All I can tell you is that what iPhone's software is today, WinMo's should have been a long time ago. The only reason it's survived this long is because guys like the geniuses on this forum have made it do things it was clearly never built to do in the first place.
With any luck I'll be trading in my iPhone for a WinMo 7 device, but I guess that remains to be seen. To everyone who's done anything for this community, I want to say thanks, because you made my enjoyment of my Wizard a true joy for almost 3 years.
Thanks,
Jason
I have mostly always used WM devices but in the mix of my many phones I have used both iPhones and I too agree that the interface is much simpler, easier to use, and direct, I also agree that certain apps specifically the games on the iPhone are uncomparable to the WM devices. Lastly, also think that the ease of app searching in the iPhone is the best, just browsing through the many apps is a joy.
With that said, using the iPhone is (to me) frustrating because most if not all apps crash, the web surfing is a pain because I remeber surfing and safari would constantly close. I traded my iPhone for the fuze and updates have done little to improve these problems, my wife still has the iphone 3g and I always have the same problems on her phone. In addition, I exchange my iphones multiple times because of these problem and they kept on happening. The only truly thing I miss from the iphone are the games and sometimes the appstore. The lack of multitasking is also horrible even by using the background tasking app when jailbreaking doesn't solve this dilema.
It really depends on what you need.
I honestly couldn't care less about the whole openness debate.
At least personally, I can jailbreak and get whatever (ok, maybe not) I want on an iphone.
The ui is much more responsive, and the screen is much larger.
BUT! I need physical keys, and that pretty much was the sole reason to not consider anything else.
Yesterday, while on the train, I was reading some stuff on Opera, while listening to music on Kimona, and typing away on Word, while swtiching between apps using Task Facade. Can I do this on the iPhone? Not as far as I know.
And about the larger screen, if I need to be typing frequently, the larger screen really doesn't benefit me since half of it will be filled with a virtual keyboard; what matters is a high res display. After comparing the two side by side, my choice was pretty clear.
Then there's another thing about the whole "responsiveness" debate. Honestly, at least with custom ROM's (which is really a bad excuse, since no one should have to do this to get past the minimum responsiveness), and running one app at a time, it's very snappy.
My point is, I find it inaccurate to state that the Fuze is a gateway to an iPhone without considering the target group and general purpose of winmo devices. Granted, more winmo phones want to hit the mainstream market, but let's face it, Fuze isn't targeted to hit any of the consumers out there. At&t did absolutely nothing to market it, and that really should be enough to invalidate the statement you provided. After all this is a forum where more technically inclined people hang around.
Wow, that's a lot of words. I'm surprised my ADD didn't kick in while reading it.
If you think that the iPhone will free you from crashes, think again. Yes, the interface is slick, but it is not the flawless stable system you see on the TV adds. I had the IPhone for a month before and returned it for the Fuze mainly because I got tired of Safari as well as any other memory intensive app constantly crashing.
The phone just doesn't have enough memory to be as good as it can be. My wife still has her iPhone which I recently upgraded to firmware version 2.2. This weekend, out of the blue, I asked her how it was performing. She replied "I just has to reboot the phone a minute ago."
I figure, if I have to deal with software lagginess and crashes, I might as well have a system that is accessible and customizable instead of one that is locked down. Oh, and the few extra buttons on the Fuze certainly do make a difference. But really, I find the Fuze with a new ROM MUCH MUCH more stable than the iPhone ever was.
Nice post, well thought out and honest. I, too, have a Fuze and am considering an Iphone. The bigger screen is a major factor; the Fuze screen is just so .. small! high-res is great, but pointless when you need to zoom in so close on things to read them that you might as well be running QVGA.
It seems I have a love/hate relationship with the Fuze, as many do here. One day, it drives me nuts -- Opera freezes up, scrolls and zooms in and out and behaves weird, the phone acts slow, bad GPS fix, and so on. I get frustrated and seriously consider returning it. Then, the next day it works like a dream! Quick GPS fix, opera works perfect, I discover something I did not know about before (i.e., circling your finger on a portion of a photo to zoom in right there -- cool!) and I would be sad to see it go.
I guess all we can do is be patient. As you said, other phones got better with age; I think it stands to reason that the same thing will happen with the Fuze. As better optimized web browsers get released (i.e., Fennec) and (hopefully) video drivers get updated, the whole experience should get better. If by some miracle we get WM7, who knows what that might bring. yeah, the hardware is frustrating -- small screen, weird buttons, no headphone jack -- but I think it is enough to deal with for now if we can get the software and drivers all optimized.
Thanks for all the great replies, guys. So far I have had the iPhone for just a shade over 48 hours, and I've updated to 2.2. I've experience no crashes yet, but I did need to reboot once after installing an app last night (weird, yet no biggie to me because I'm used to it in the Windows world).
I have to agree--I HATE that I can't run more than one app at a time on the iPhone. I don't know why they do that, but I can only presume that it's done that way in order to force memory to stay free so the OS remains quick and responsive. It's kind of a ****ty tradeoff IMHO, but at the same time...I'm liking the responsiveness and I *usually* don't do more than one thing at a time anyway. It's nice to have the option though.
By all means, I don't think Fuze is a waste at all (except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA), and I think that when it matures it'll be damn difficult to beat. I fully expect WinMo7 to eventually arrive on it (barring some bizarre hardware requirements, but who knows?), but even if it doesn't I think the ROM devs around here will eventually harness this thing into a terrific device. Unfortunately I just don't feel like waiting around, because for my almost $400 out the door I feel I should have walked out of the AT&T store with a phone that blew the doors off most others without any need for a hack.
On the bright side, by the time the ROM's are really mature and crazy fast/stable, the Fuze will probably have dropped in price substantially
For those developing ROM's, some of my thoughts on UI are:
1. Larger buttons! Especially for closing apps and using drop downs, those tiny little default X's are miserable for finger access. Finger friendly is the way of the future.
2. Customize Touchflo. I've seen some slick youtube videos with guys doing very iPhone/Coverflowish stuff and it appears buttery smooth. Of course, I could never find where to get the software to try it out, but if it's doable, heck...do it
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
Just some thoughts!
I can relate to OP. I'm upgrading form a Wizard as well (T-Mo US MDA). While new ROM's certainly made my Wizard better, I can say that custom ROM's on it were not an absolute requirement. While I continued to be more amazed by my Wizard, I just continue to be a little less pissed off at my Fuse.
XDA is the ONLY reason I have not returned my Fuze. I'm finally back to a totally stripped ROM, with no fancy I wish I bought an IPhone TouchFlo Horse ****, and no AT&T application Douchebaggery.
OP, I feel you on the lack of buttons. I miss playing pocket Nester / GB on my Wizard. I think it says alot when it is totally outclassed and still sticks around as my "GameBoy".
I definitely have mixed feelings about the Fuze. I waited to buy this over the Tilt for the camera, and I have been somewhat impressed by it. I miss the Wizard's Keyboard layout and overall style, with the buttons NOT touching each other.
@Fatheadpi,
I can't agree more (though I am rather enamored with the iPhone's UI. It's not the animation and all that crap though, it's the sheer *speed* of it and ease of getting to anything I want to get to).
Fuze is an impressive piece of hardware, yet at the same time there are issues with it--primarily software--that are really hard to overlook on such an expensive device.
The iPhone has been around for quiet a while now, and has had 2 revisions. The Fuze is fresh out of the box, so making a comparison so early in it's release is a little judgemental. it is possible that alot of out problems can be solved by a nice ROM update (like video drivers). Or just out right fixed by custom ROMs here. if you think that apple listens to what the people want, just take a look at the cut/paste, or Video recording issues.
One of the "great" things about the iPhone is one of it's biggest weakness too. The app store, while its a one stop shopping for apps, is also controled by apple, and they are the final say on what kind of programs you are allowed to run on your device. You also can write new ones (think Schaps Advance config) you have to take what they want you to have and like it. If you try to break their rules, then you might find yourself owning a brick when you sync it.
I think you need to look at this in a little bit of a different light here.
Apple has for the most part stated that they are a software company; almost all of their efforts these days are portals to Itunes where Apple makes money hence the reason for lacking hardware but great UIs and access to Itunes. They make loads more money on Itunes than on hardware.
Looking at this from AT&T's viewpoint they make money on data plans, minutes, texting, basically anything crossing their network so these types of things work great on the phone.
A third party to all of this is HTC which has to make something attractive but gets no additional money at all after you buy the hardware.
So looking at it this way, it makes perfect sense why a pleasurable experience on a Winmo device is driven by the end user, in essence no one else is interested in your problem because they don't make money off of you.
So maybe some entrepreneur out there should figure out a nifty UI like iTunes but for Winmo where a user can buy a new ROM, or try out/buy some cool apps and so forth, figuring out a cool way to upgrade the device.
The real truth here is that Apple owns everything about the iPhone, there is no one entity that owns Winmo devices so individuals end up taking over and this creates multiple and sometimes confusing paths to good stuff.
-Tim
jasongw said:
(except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA)
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If they don't do that, we may have to pay more for the device. So I really don't mind all the bloatware (you get what you pay for )
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
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http://getgecko.org/
I think these guys are trying to do just that. The problem is, ironically, but obviously, the openness.
Then there's this. It's from handango. Never tried it, probably not even close to what apple has. It's not the lack of it, but the way it's presented, which is precisely why--and you nailed this point--iphones sell. Of course, as I mentioned previously, most winmo users are at least prosumers, so they know what to do without all the oversimplifications.
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
@g2tl-- Gecko seems like a great idea, I really hope they make some good progress. I hadn't heard of that before, but I'll definitely be following their progress from here on out! Thanks for the heads up!
As for getting what you pay for, that's almost always true but I think there's an exception here. On the fuze you're getting more impressive hardware, but you're getting a much less polished piece of software that's quite outdated and difficult to manage by modern standards. Now, I'm a 13 year IT geek (good lord, did I just admit that?) so I've never been afraid of getting my hands dirty, and goodness knows it's a miracle my old 8125 survived all the flashing I did to it, but at a certain point it's nice for a device to just *work* without a lot of dicking around with it.
I am sure WinMo will eventually be that software, probably with WinMo7. It's just not there yet, and I think the real shame of that is that an awesome device like the Fuze (or any flavor of the touch pro for that matter) won't really be used to its full potential because the software is lagging so far behind the device itself.
Tim, I do get all that, and you're exactly right. I also think that's where a great many of the problems with WinMo come from, the fact that carriers can just shovel piles and piles of junk onto these phones just drags down the user experience.
I'd say maybe Microsoft needs to put out their own phone where they can present a coherent experience (their new Xbox Live interface is friggin' awesome), but then I'm sure we'd have a lot of crying foul from assorted carriers and competitors who cry monopoly. There's probably no easy solution from a development and implementation standpoint, but from a consumer standpoint it's actually fairly easy: go buy the device that offers what you need.
Right now for me--and surprisingly so because I never imagined buying one of these until 2 days ago--that device appears to be iPhone. I truly do hope for a WinMo7 device or even a Fuze WinMo7 hack that'll win me back eventually. I still love the dark side
jason - Suggestion for you, as this is finally what has made me very happy with my Fuse. Probably a little too late as you're running an I-Phone.
Think about this: You were a Wizard user. When you upgraded, you probably wanted a better camera, more power, and 16 gig storage options. You were probably running an OC'd cooked rom WITHOUT TouchFlo.
Here's my suggestion.
Starting from scratch, I have the phone I wanted after about an hour's work. TouchFlo 3D just continues to piss me off. The only nice things about it were the picture viewer, weather, and the music setup. However, I have music controls on my BT Headset, and I'll probably go find the HTC Music player / plugin tonite. I have HTC picture viewer installed in an out of the way place for the rare times I look at my pics. I'll figure something out for the weather option, tho I've lived without it for a number of years.
Thinking about it, it all kinda makes sense. PC users build PC's and use Windows because we know exactly what we want and how we want it. We don't put flashy, pointless bull**** interfaces up front to slow things down. (at least pre-Vista, anyways.)
Still tho, the Raphael and Diamond needed a different control pad and button set. Macs were built around the idea that an average idiot (no offense to MacFags) could just use something. PC's are designed with a bunch of buttons because PCFags will customize that to do awesome stuff.
jasongw said:
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
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I'll have to dissagree with you there, as the hardware is so different, it's a copletely different device. I came from the Hermes(8525) and it's not even close to the same(and I did love my heremes)
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
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I think what I said just came out wrong. I think over-critical would have been more accurate. I think that we look at things in perspective, and make decisions based on our needs. While I know that neither device is perfect(what one is?) we just need for figure out what job does the job best for us, and makes us happy.
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
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Don't forget that not all of thoes apps are free, and you don't get demos of stuff try make sure they work as advertised. I have friends that nickle and dime themselves too death due to the app store. I don't think the idea is bad idea by any means though.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
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iPhone users have been asking for thoes 2 functions for well over a year, and they all say...Its comming soon...for a year now. I'm guessing that Mr. Jobs doesnt want you to have it for some reason.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
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I won't dissagree with you on that. 6.1 was a bigger improvement that 5 to 6 was. Hopping that 6.5 will get the boost it very much needs. And don't ever forget that Touchflo 3D was HTCs way of hiding the windows interface, due to its seriously unfrendlyness. But also remember that iPhone was geared towards the casual Multi-media use, and the Fuze is aimed towards the average power user.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
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I will agree with that. But just like the arguement over PC vs mac, it's not a fair comparison. It needs to be Dell XPS vs Mac, or Toshiba Satalite vs Mac. There is no such thing as a PC (technicaly a Mac is a PC too...Personal Computer). And Apple has the unfair advantage of only writing software for papriatary hardware, where Microsoft has to write software for millions of combinations of hardware, and in the end it's all about drivers.
In the end, see what serves your needs best, but I do not think that the Fuze will drive anyone to be iPhone users. With the Fuzes lack of advertising, and the Apple's Mind numbing advetising, I think that people that look at the fuze as an option already have the mindset that the iPhone just will not do what they need.
In advance let me say thanks to everyone for having such a civil discussion. I am thoroughly impressed and appreciative. I was *sure* somebody would have come in with the raving and yelling attitude by now and I've happily been proven wrong. I REALLY appreciate that; flame wars got old and boring a loooong time ago IMHO
@Fatheadpi,
Thank you for the suggestion. At some point in the future I hope to get another fuze or perhaps its successor. Of course, by then I hope for WM7 and an actual answer to the ease of use features in iPhone (I'm still a PC guy at heart, I'd love to see Apple get ***** slapped at their own game). Suffice to say, unless AT&T cleans up its act (which I doubt, they never did do right by Wizard users and it was only XDA cookers who made that device be all that it could be) I am sure that the Fuze will continue to be a "Cooked ROMs only" device.
@JBlakk,
Wow, what a nice response . I won't go point by point, but I think you've made a lot of good points, and I agree with many. Hell, I still build my own PC's (I've only recently started using Vista though, and I mostly hate it so I turn off almost all the fancy crap).
Also I think you definitely have a point about the marketing aspect and who the fuze is (or at least ought to be) targeted toward. I'd make the argument though that if AT&T is targeting the "power user" they still missed the mark with the software by loading it will all that ridiculous bloat.
I like the appearance of TouchFlo3D, but man the performance is just sad, especially on such a high end piece of phone hardware. My biggest gripe is absolutely in the software execution, but I am, to reiterate again, quite confident that as the ROM's mature and the cookers get their heads around the nuances of the phone itself, we'll see some amazing performance from Fuze.
Thanks again guys! It's been loads of fun
Jason
I'll be civil...
I understand what you are saying, if you just want something that works 99.9% of the time the iPhone is the perfect phone for you. I however like to play with things and no how much I deny it I like finding problems and fixing them, and Microsoft's products are perfect for that. Also the open source-ness of M$ is another thing that draws me to their products.
I was worried, being an open Apple hater(I have nightmares about getting iPhones for Christmas...), that AT&T would not carry another phone with a touch screen after they signed the deal with Apple. The Touch Pro is/will be perfect for me in that sense. Apple is flashy and pretty, but extremely constrained in the sense that Apple likes to keep it's followers in a choke hold, but that's my opinion too.
I also like the keyboard of the Fuze/Touch Pro/Raphael(Why do they need so many names for the same device?!)
So in short I'm not going to flame you because you chose an Apple product over a M$ one, I honestly don't care as it's your money and your decision. I think the latest Touch Pro's are better than the first release models though...but that could be just speculation.
((Also the lack of cut/copy/paste is an EXTREME drawback for me))
I also went to the darkside (iPhone) after returning my fuze. I have said it in previous posts and to my co-workers that have both iPhones and WinMo devices - it. just. works.
Being an engineer/sys admin by trade I love to tinker and tweak and rip apart and put back together stuff, but in this case the effort it took to get the Fuze/TP to a usable state [for me] wasn't worth it. I am at the stage of my life where I don't have the time to play (7 mo. old will do that to ya).
I wouldn't kick a free or deeply discounted Fuze/TP out of bed, lol, but as many have said, it's what you want out of a device and I needed my device to work out of the box.
That said, so far so good. About 2 trouble-free weeks with the iP3G.
I still come here daily to keep up on the HTC WinMo happenings to satiate my tinker desire. But the iPhone is here to stay - or until WinMo 7 drops at least.
Listed 4 choices in the poll, if you vote Other... please post a reply with what you think would make an android/iOS/blackberry user convert to wp7.
i guess less microsoft would be the right answer. what a pitty that this really powerfull devices can't even play most avi videos just because they are divx or xvid. mkv can't be played to. mobile phones are focussed on multimedia, but that's not a good deal. who wants to use or convert almost everything to wmv? nobody!
and zune is a pretty nice software buit people don't want to be forced to use it. That's what many complain abot iphone and itunes, and is most probably the reason they pick up android.
Only apple is able to do stupid things like that because they aim a very special group of consumers, who doesn't care what the devices can do. they just need to have the newest fancy apple product.
What a shame, because on the other side i think winphone7 is really the most modern and sophisticated OS at the moment.
Definitely not the first 3 choices.
I voted "other" thinking about UI workflow and different concept of this.
Devices and Marketing are worse than other platforms.
Some features are better but there is alot missing too.
Other: The Apple/Google Brand name. People have a tendency to buy any crap from Apple or Google these days as long as its not Microsoft.
But yeah in the long run thru good word of mouth WP7 will eventually win
Interesting answers...
I associate microsoft and windows with good software. Just look at Office and tell me it's not the ****. On the other hand, Apple does make very "pretty" software. It makes you feel special when you use it because it animates and looks a certain way.
Google has always been the odd one, it has horrible UI and their chrome browser is ugly as well.
I agree with everyone else to an extent, but I actually think that the biggest thing is that it is lacking in features. You can't send video clips via text message, you can't have custom alert sounds and you can't even have custom ring tones (without hacking it). I think that missing features such as these is a major turn off for people looking for a new phone.
Windows Phone 7 needs a constant and unending series of free commercials losely disguised as the evening news. Just in day to day contact it seems like the majority of people don't really "hate" MSFT, but they love to get caught up in the hype provided by the masters of buzz, Apple and the likes. MSFT should just drop some checks in the pockets of these pseudo-reporters we know as bloggers and buy their buzz.
We all know that the masses do not really care about the number of cores, an extra 0.1 inch of screen size, or an extra megapixel of camera resolution (if they did the iPhone would not be eatng other manufacturer's lunch). They want to walk into the room and when they take out their phone they want someone to say "is that the latest iPhone?"
This is not a slight at iPhone users, I still have my 3GS, but today people's phones are like their car or wardrobe. It's sometime a fashion accessory.
Sorry to ramble. I know I'm not saying anything that those on this forum haven't already observed.
Nobody975 said:
I agree with everyone else to an extent, but I actually think that the biggest thing is that it is lacking in features. You can't send video clips via text message, you can't have custom alert sounds and you can't even have custom ring tones (without hacking it). I think that missing features such as these is a major turn off for people looking for a new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Video to text, and custom ring tones added to mango
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express
mikroland said:
Video to text, and custom ring tones added to mango
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I Actually just upgraded to mango and I have found many nice upgrades, but I was unable to attach a video to a text. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong! lol I'm still disappointed though that it is such a tedious process to use a custom ringtone... I should be able to just pick a song under Zune, hiold it for a sec. and choose an option "Set as ringtone"...But, that is not how easy it is...Not too much of a problem for me, but I have a few friends who are bothered by it.
...I voted for "better marketing". Having had GSM devices since the beginning and having been a "WM Power User" for a couple of years, flashing and tweaking everything I was able to lay hands on, I can say that WP7, even in the actual NoDo-Version is the most awesome OS I ever used. Before settling for WP7, I also tried Android on an HTC HD2 and I found it had basically the same problems as WM6.5 WP7 is working "out of the box" and I don't need to spend hours flashing and tweaking to make in run smoothly. There are of course some features which are still missing, but most of them will be included in Mango. And Mango will not be the end of the line.....
WP7 needs a better and more agressive marketing. Apple managed to establish "iPhone" as synonym for "smartphone" and ironically with hardware which has never been top technology. Even with the millions of Apple and Android devices in the market, this only scratches the surface of the potential and future markets of smartphones which goes into billions. The WP7 alliance of Microsoft, the makers, the providers and the trade have to find an efficient way to communicate the advantages of the WP7 philosophy (don't let your phone take over your life) to the non technic affine public, which actually are the hughe majority of the potential users.....
It actually needs all of these. In fact, it's an easy textbook case in terms of theory, here's what they need:
1. Meaningful effective positioning and branding. The "Really?" ads won't cut it. The "In and Out" message is totally missing the point, nobody understands what it's about. Using the "Windows Phone" name is totally stupid.
2. Variety of cool and sexy hardware (not the 4.7" Eternity stuff, and not just one or two decent phones, with all the buzzwords in place such as megapixels, gigabytes, super AMOLED plus ultra, what not), shelf presence everywhere (countries, operators), and of course training/stimulating floor staff.
3. Completed concept of hubs/integration, for third party apps/services to really be an integral part of the OS, or "immersive" as MS call it.
4. Seamless backup/device-to-device migration, carrying over settings, app data etc. This isn't crucial right now, but will be a must have in a year or so, and could be a differentiating factor over Android, although it's more important for markets where handsets aren't subsidized. In the US this can wait. However, a migration path from Android/iOS would be useful even there.
5. Integration with "big" Windows, Windows on tablets which would work well with WP7, together with repositioned/rebranded/streamlined Live services which should be a joy to use as opposed to current PITA state.
6. Introducing lots of things for media to talk about over the next year or two.
7. Profit
Unfortunately, 1. is out of the question, not gonna happen. Hardware depends on manufacturers (Nokia alone won't do it). Most other things, even if understood at Microsoft, will take a year at least. So don't expect anything radically exciting happening this year.
Numbers.
It's a numbers game - more devices = more users.
Also have it so that my WP7 phone will mount as a hard drive without Zune software. So dumb that it doesn't. All of my Androids do that!
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
I think for me its a little bit of both. I like the fact that the hardware is there in my 3d when I need to push the system really hard. Its not often I do, but its good that when I do, it executes the tasks with ease.
On the same hand there are huge software benefits for me. I love the UI and that I can set swype gestures to open particular apps or settings. It makes multi tasking tthat much easier and fluid for me.
Also, at least from what I have seen with iOS5 (my girl has the 4s) is that android seems to be ahead in certain areas of functionality. For example it is not an innovative thing (to me anyways, being an android user) to be able to back up your device without the use of a computer... I have been doing wireless backups and internal backups since I bought my first android phone.
I think one thing you mentioned before... I think it was you, anyways... was pretty much right on when you said that android is capable of meeting so many different needs in the sense that you have a wide range in variety of devices to choose from and at different costs. There are high end phones available such that perform to today's standards in the mobile world, and there are lower end ones available that are more cost effective.
I feel if you yourself are innovative and creative, you are way more capable of taking an android phone and building the UI to what you want/need. I don't sacrifice functionality for speed, ever. In the end it is still just a phone, but I prefer this platform because it caters to that need I have to customize my phone the way I want it to be, not what somebody else feels it should be.
---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------
And to address your comment about the bajjillion core tab....
Seems the hardware is way ahead of the software in this case... therefore, I am not impressed by it.
I have a Motorola xoom and it has plenty of power to do what I need it to do. I will not be taking it back to simply have two more cores under the hood. And somebody else mentioned the new kal el device only has 1gb of ram? In my opinion that is really disappointing for a device with that kind of processing power.
i buy phones based on hardware specs
the OS is optional
I prefer to load my OS of choice
just like my PCs / Laptops
z33dev33l said:
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First time I have to agree with you pal.BUT:
i)Those guys/gals whose customisation needs end with setting the ringtone are the ones who won't care or even won't realize if the OS is different between an iPhone and an Android device.
ii)Android offers most(if not all) of the things other OSes offer,plus the infinite customisation capabilities no other OS has.Now this is what matters for those of us who can do more than changing the ringtone.
Other than these two things,I generally agree.In the end,though,it's user preference that matters.And people's idiocy in fact.Hell,many people buy their phones depending on how many megapixels their camera can do!
AllGamer said:
I prefer to load my OS of choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Certainly a combination of software + hardware with a little bit of company preference.
But considering the range of manufacturers for android based phones, I find it hard to lag behind hardware wise.
1) I look for a device that I think will last me the three years of my contract or at least the majority of it
2) I look here on XDA and see what the dev community is like
3) I buy the phone
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
countstex said:
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen the price comment being made multiple times but aren't these devices pretty close to each other in terms of price after a 2 yr contract? In fact if you shop around, you can find some of these highend units for nearly nothing from online stores such as amazon
As for me, overall package is what sold me to galaxy s2. Form factor, hardware specs, overall implementation of the OS (gpu acceleration various places), etc. Version number really doesn't really bother me (2.3.3 vs 2.3.4/5/6/7) as long as there aren't any key features missing in the current revision that exists in the newer revisions.
Gusar321 said:
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 was a great example
then there are many other HTC devices that did the same
and a few Samsung devices as well
and there's the HP Touchpad
and...
For most people it's both.
They're attracted for the first time by the look and find the OS easy to use.
Despite people stating that the iphone is for people who just want to use a smartphone for the first time etc and Android is for techies and geeks to customise, if that were actually true then that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of geeks out there, which obviously isn't the case.
I would guess the majority of Android users' extent of customisation is changing the picture of their wallpaper, and that's the thing, with Android you can do that, it's easy to use, with the extra buttons it can seem more logical to new users compared with the single button on the iphone for instance.
It has the "apps and the wifis" that average users want, it looks good and you can make it look pretty much how you like.
Being able to just plug it into another computer and transfer files is a huge boon too, something a colleague was very disappointed with the iphone4 because of it's lack of ability.
There is 500+ android devices on the market globally, its the brand name and hardware specs that sell. Not the os.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I'd rather say that that none of those sell the other: it's actually the price selling both, plus the "status symbol" factor thatbhas to do with Apple things. Androids are generally cheaper then both the iPhone and WP7 phones. This, plus the fact that most people don't seem to like WP7 tiled ui, basically because it doesn't "look like an iPhone" enough. That might sound harsh, like saying that most people are dumb, but it's not (only) that actually: people got used to icons since the day they got their first pc, no wonder they go for something that looks more familiar to them when they wanna buy a smartphone. Maybe Win8 will totally change the name of the game, but that's it for the moment (sadly enough I dare say).
I think we have to remember that 'most' people don't include the tiny fraction of the consumer market that are active on XDA. We make choices on a range of factors as we are better informed about both hardware and software. When we walk into a phone shop we want to assess the phone on build quality, size, Android version, display type, etc.
When the average punter walks into the same shop their buying choice usually boils down to no more than, 'Oh look, a shiny thing. I want that one'.
.
Thread moved to Android. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.
Do you review the content of my threads before moving them or do you see my name and play pin the tail on the donkey with the final location of the thread?
I have just gotten an upgrade for my carrier and I am having trouble deciding if I would like to stay with an iPhone and get the iphone4s or go to an android and get the Samsung galaxy s2,I have never owned an android so I was wondering what can an android do compaired to iphone.
bigger screen and expandable storage, feels more like a computer than iphone does. They can both achieve the same goal but with different methods I think.
iOS shoves you into a shoebox.
Android shoves you into a moving box.
While both boxes, at least android you can move your elbows around.
Through rooting you have a wide range of customizing your phone with competing ROMs. These roms most often allow you to have a more optimized experience. But choose your manufacturer carefully if ROMing is what you want to do. Some manufacturers make this process easier or harder, but generally you'll have a bunch of super nerds that are more than willing to help you out.
iOS has a claim to stability over android. But think of it as having a paint by numbers and apple hands you the colors one at a time and forces you to do it their way. Android has versatility.
Uncle Rico: "I…I said the twelve pack, not the twenty-four pack. You're just gonna have to mix and match." Napoleon: "Shut up, say it so that the whole world can hear."
IOS Devices -
Smoother (High end androids such as SGS2 are about as smooth)
More Games.
Easier to use
Siri? (4s only - There are similar android apps but i don't believe any are as good.)
Android -
Customization (You can basically change everything on stock android.)
Larger variety of apps (Keyboards such as Swype, Launchers, etc)
I Don't really see why people complain about android Crashes/FC. They rarely happen on Stock roms (Not enough to be annoying) and usually occur due to doing something that isn't meant to be done (Task managers, Bad ROMs), or a faulty app.
Also, Rooting is pretty useful. It basically allows you to do anything with your phone (Such as install ubuntu, Android roms, better Radios for better signals, uninstall system apps, etc)
Everything!! I'm on my way to root this very instant.
From my personal experience, Android is far superior than the iphone 4 (can't say much about 4s as i just upgraded from the iphone 4).
Yeah iphone 4 has more apps but the majority of them are useless and get boring FAST. Whereas, flashing roms like cyanogenmod is totally addicting and so much fun (shame my phone is stuck in alpha version for cyanogenmod). I havent seen much of a difference in the retina display because my phone's screen is larger, looks crisp and looks beautiful.
Best thing is if you dont want to root you can still install emulators for free regardless of rooting. I <3 pokemon on my android.
Choice is yours but i am never going back to iphone because my phone is more fun.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I727R using XDA App
Well I like iPhone. I am using Android now. I like the spirit of android that trust its' user.
I like android, because you can experiment a lot
Sent from my HTC Runnymede using xda premium
Apple makes something that just works. but if you don't like the way it works, too bad. Android devices work just as well, albeit differently, but it's nice to know that if there is anything in the UI that isn't to your liking, you can simply change it. in the early days of Android, the UI was sluggish and riddled with incompatibilities and crashes, which gave the iPhone a heightened sense of 'perfection.' this is a thing of the past. new, high-end Android devices are well-polished and just as snappy as any iPhone. ICS will further bridge the gap, especially in dual core devices.
one area Android cannot compete with Apple in, though, and I don't know if it will ever be able to: battery life.. and when you consider what the device is (above all else, it's a phone.. you probably need it to communicate, and therefore you probably want it to be powered on at all times), that's as important as any other feature. there's just no comparison. even if you spend 5 hours tweaking settings to minimize draw, your fancy shmancy Android device's battery will never last as long as an iPhone's. of course, again, we come back to the customization thing: with Android devices, you could just get a ludicrously overstuffed battery replacement and probably come near iPhone uptime, something you cannot do with Apple devices.
my honest opinion? (keep in mind I have owned 6 android devices since the Dream first came out.. I'm not an Apple fanboy at all - I'm not a fanboy of any fancy telephone. it's a phone, not my life) I would own an iPhone 4S over any current Android offering if I hadn't boycotted Apple years ago. they're not the type of business I willingly support... but give them respect when it's due: they make fantastic mobile devices.
for now, I'm more than happy with my MT4GS. I like the phys keyboard, which is superb, and I don't have to look like a halfwit when I'm sending e-mails on the go to the executive team. I like the hardware, which is identical to the Sensation's. I like the 3.7" screen coupled with HDPI resolution, which gives me plenty of viewing area on webpages and whatnot without crazy battery draw like you'll get from these gimmicky 5" HD screens. the camera is phenomenal for a phone. and even though it ships with the most disgusting form of Sense imaginable (T-mo's espresso), as I've said, it's easy to change things around to get the experience to my liking thanks to Android's ease of customization.
to all of the Android zealots who have posted here and will surely continue to post: get over it. the iPhone is the benchmark, that's the way it is, and in the foreseeable future, that's the way it will be. there's a reason for that, and it's not just because people who are Apple loyalists are idiots... ALL of apple's products are highly refined and very user friendly. if you're the kind of person who doesn't have the patience for technology, but wants to stay connected, you'd be dumb to go with anything but Apple. if you don't fit into that category; if you like to tinker, if you don't like feeling locked down by your mobile OS, buy an Android device and enjoy it... quit getting your panties in a bunch because the entire world doesn't see eye-to-eye with you concerning your choice in the realm of glorified telephones. if it works for you, that's all that matters, and who cares what your buddies with their iThings say? it's all just stuff in the end... stuff that will end up in a landfill just like the rest of the stuff you own.
just my $.02 (more like $.05, that was a novella)
I'd liken the iPhone to a safety bubble, where everything works well and doesn't overextend its boundaries. If you're someone who likes to tinker with everything, and wants more customizability, in terms of OS and phone choice, I'd go with Android.
This is how I recently described the difference between the iPhone and Android. I expected to get tutted at for saying it, but most people here agreed.
iPhones are for people who want to look like they know tech.
Android is for people that actually do know tech (or at least want to learn).
Nerds = android
IPhone = everyone else
If you wanna mod and my your phone and completely make it your own get an android.
The iPhone is great straight out of the box but is really locked down.
You basically need to tweak an Android phone to make it have decent battery life or get an extra battery.
Perks of android is options and oh btw ICS is amazing, it runs flawless on my phone, though I had to tweak it.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App
basically everything a computer can
Android is like having a normal car, with all the proper features. iOS is like having that car with only 1 pedal, 1 gear, and just the fuel gauge on the dashboard.
Skv012a said:
Android is like having a normal car, with all the proper features. iOS is like having that car with only 1 pedal, 1 gear, and just the fuel gauge on the dashboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
....and it's shiny....
sooyong94 said:
....and it's shiny....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah yes, polished chrome for paint job that just blinds everyone else including yourself. Also, mirrors show what's in front of you rather than behind.
Most of the stated I agree with. I'd add that to me, iPhones are boring. What do you have when you turn on iPhone? Just a bunch of icons. Not very creative or different? Not even animated wallpaper. On Adndroid, half the fun is customizing the desktop. You can have live wallpaper, widgets, folders, icons... And yes, iPhone is probably a BIT smoother and more stable than most Android phones. But this is not the fault of Android phones, it is more a thing that you can't do half the things with an iPhone that you can do with Android. Apple limited their device and ofcourse it performs better because it doesn't do many things android does. Imagine only Live Wallpaper. How much more CPU power Android phones must use in order to display animated background.... then all the widgets. That constantly change/update.... while Apple devices only display rows of icons and no wonder they run slightly smoother. And in the end, as someone already stated, I will never buy an Apple product because I don't like the attitude of people using Apple. Those are mostly non-tech people that think they are so cool only because of something they OWN. IMHO it is way more cool to be ABLE to customize your device and understand how it works and tweak it than to be able to PURCHASE something. Just like they say in new Samsung commercial... one guy says "I could never have Samsung, I'm creative" and his friend replies "Dude, you're a barista" ;-) 99% of thos cool people are not businessman or even IT. They're waiters and shop assistents that need an ego boost....
P.S.
here it is for those that haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&feature=player_embedded&v=6h5JSojJN3Y
Well, just my opinion, hope I didn't insult anyone.
regards,
D.
dalanik said:
Most of the stated I agree with. I'd add that to me, iPhones are boring. What do you have when you turn on iPhone? Just a bunch of icons. Not very creative or different? Not even animated wallpaper. On Adndroid, half the fun is customizing the desktop. You can have live wallpaper, widgets, folders, icons... And yes, iPhone is probably a BIT smoother and more stable than most Android phones. But this is not the fault of Android phones, it is more a thing that you can't do half the things with an iPhone that you can do with Android. Apple limited their device and ofcourse it performs better because it doesn't do many things android does. Imagine only Live Wallpaper. How much more CPU power Android phones must use in order to display animated background.... then all the widgets. That constantly change/update.... while Apple devices only display rows of icons and no wonder they run slightly smoother. And in the end, as someone already stated, I will never buy an Apple product because I don't like the attitude of people using Apple. Those are mostly non-tech people that think they are so cool only because of something they OWN. IMHO it is way more cool to be ABLE to customize your device and understand how it works and tweak it than to be able to PURCHASE something. Just like they say in new Samsung commercial... one guy says "I could never have Samsung, I'm creative" and his friend replies "Dude, you're a barista" ;-) 99% of thos cool people are not businessman or even IT. They're waiters and shop assistents that need an ego boost....
Well, just my opinion, hope I didn't insult anyone.
regards,
D.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also known as sheep.
Thing is, I have recently fled from the flock of sheep (I had an iphone 4, got it from a friend for free as I lost my Galaxy). I absolutely love the creative ability of android, I miss being in a moving truck instead of a shoebox. If you're deciding on which to get, it depends on what you want it to do;
Want something to just work? Get an iPhone.
Want the phone to be more flexible and allow you to customize almost every conceivably possible option? Get an android phone.
android can do what chuck norris cant
Hi, i am currently looking for a tablet, i am hoping in the long run it may replace my laptop but i am not going to sell that yet incase, but for day to day use i would like to use a tablet more.
i understand that on here we maybe a little more biased to apple, i usually am myself lol
i have always used android on my phones, i currently have a Samsung galaxy s2 using a custom rom, resurrection remix. So i do like android a lot and very comfortable using it.
on the other hand my girlfriend had an ipad 3 already and i do kind of like it a lot and use it a lot when im at hers, i never find any fault with it, it runs extremely smooth giving its lower specs to current new android tablets out. on my phone i must admit i will get the odd app saying it has to close or it couldn’t start and vie had to restart my phone etc.. i have not once seen my girlfriends ipad crash.
This now leaves me unsure about what to get and would like some opinions, my hearts telling me you have to stick with android because its what you know and love.. and your supposed to hate apple!
But my brain is telling me deep down, you know the ipad is going to be better long term with less problems and a much bigger market.
giving that android are having so many issues now with patents, they have lost the right to carry on using flash etc which used to be a big bonus for android users. how many other issues are going to crop up where every time you update your android tablet you will lose some of its function because android have been ordered to take it out because of a patent ruling.
this all kind of worries me a little in terms of the future, will devs start favouring apple before anyone else when it comes to making apps, will at some point they say we aren’t making them at all for android because of all these issues (of course they already make more for apple than they do android now) im just wondering if it will get worse? i know android was certainly catching up but i think that may start to reverse a little soon.
Most of the above comes from what i have either heard people say or what i have read, i dont know 100% of everything above is correct or not. so some advise would be good.
How good / bad is the android market and is the apple store that much better.
will all my current bought apps, and the majority of free ones probably work fine on an android tablet, or would some look stupid stretched, or do they have to be designed especially for tablet use?
I was wanting to be able to transfer files from usenet on my tablet to a media player, I’m guessing from what i have read that will be impossible with an ipad and do-able on an android tablet but still probably nowhere near as easy as from a laptop, this is one main reason i am not going to get rid of my laptop to soon incase it proves a nuisance. If i got an ipad i assume i would have to keep my laptop for this purpose?
is there any reason why the specs of say the ipad are fairly standard compared to some of the newer android tabs and i still hear a lot about the android tabs being sluggish sometimes and the menus not being smooth, if apple can do a dual core 1ghz pad with 1gb of ram and it be soo smooth, how come android tabs which are also 1 and sometimes 2gb have multi core cpu's at 1.2 - 1.6 ghz yet they perform much more sluggish to the ipad?
is it because android is being added into a whole host of different makers to fit their specs, where as the ipad is being made only for apples own operating systems therefore its always going to be smoother as its all been made for the one system rather than for multiple systems?
i am assuming if android also made their own hardware the two would go together much more smoothly, or am i wrong?
From reading the above back it feels like in am heading more towards the ipad, but i would like reasons why i should maybe not choose the ipad.
the tablets i have been looking at are:
Huawei MediaPad 10 (which i have literally only just come across but looks good specs)
Asus transformer pad infinity 32gb (i don’t know how much this is going to cost without the dock, i think i would only need the dock if i was to get rid of my laptop)
Samsung galaxy note 10.1
Ipad 3
Up to now that’s my shortlist, i would be looking at the 32gb versions unless the 64 wasn't a bad price, i am looking to spend about £400 - £500 max, i have seen new ipad 3's 64gb on ebay for £480, not sure how much the others will be, i would need to hold out for the 32gb or 64gb versions of the galaxy note 10.1 if i was to get that, not sure why they have only released a 16gb version and no others.
Thanks for any feedback you give
James
james_lpool said:
Hi, i am currently looking for a tablet, i am hoping in the long run it may replace my laptop but i am not going to sell that yet incase, but for day to day use i would like to use a tablet more.
i understand that on here we maybe a little more biased to apple, i usually am myself lol
i have always used android on my phones, i currently have a Samsung galaxy s2 using a custom rom, resurrection remix. So i do like android a lot and very comfortable using it.
on the other hand my girlfriend had an ipad 3 already and i do kind of like it a lot and use it a lot when im at hers, i never find any fault with it, it runs extremely smooth giving its lower specs to current new android tablets out. on my phone i must admit i will get the odd app saying it has to close or it couldn’t start and vie had to restart my phone etc.. i have not once seen my girlfriends ipad crash.
This now leaves me unsure about what to get and would like some opinions, my hearts telling me you have to stick with android because its what you know and love.. and your supposed to hate apple!
But my brain is telling me deep down, you know the ipad is going to be better long term with less problems and a much bigger market.
giving that android are having so many issues now with patents, they have lost the right to carry on using flash etc which used to be a big bonus for android users. how many other issues are going to crop up where every time you update your android tablet you will lose some of its function because android have been ordered to take it out because of a patent ruling.
this all kind of worries me a little in terms of the future, will devs start favouring apple before anyone else when it comes to making apps, will at some point they say we aren’t making them at all for android because of all these issues (of course they already make more for apple than they do android now) im just wondering if it will get worse? i know android was certainly catching up but i think that may start to reverse a little soon.
Most of the above comes from what i have either heard people say or what i have read, i dont know 100% of everything above is correct or not. so some advise would be good.
How good / bad is the android market and is the apple store that much better.
will all my current bought apps, and the majority of free ones probably work fine on an android tablet, or would some look stupid stretched, or do they have to be designed especially for tablet use?
I was wanting to be able to transfer files from usenet on my tablet to a media player, I’m guessing from what i have read that will be impossible with an ipad and do-able on an android tablet but still probably nowhere near as easy as from a laptop, this is one main reason i am not going to get rid of my laptop to soon incase it proves a nuisance. If i got an ipad i assume i would have to keep my laptop for this purpose?
is there any reason why the specs of say the ipad are fairly standard compared to some of the newer android tabs and i still hear a lot about the android tabs being sluggish sometimes and the menus not being smooth, if apple can do a dual core 1ghz pad with 1gb of ram and it be soo smooth, how come android tabs which are also 1 and sometimes 2gb have multi core cpu's at 1.2 - 1.6 ghz yet they perform much more sluggish to the ipad?
is it because android is being added into a whole host of different makers to fit their specs, where as the ipad is being made only for apples own operating systems therefore its always going to be smoother as its all been made for the one system rather than for multiple systems?
i am assuming if android also made their own hardware the two would go together much more smoothly, or am i wrong?
From reading the above back it feels like in am heading more towards the ipad, but i would like reasons why i should maybe not choose the ipad.
the tablets i have been looking at are:
Huawei MediaPad 10 (which i have literally only just come across but looks good specs)
Asus transformer pad infinity 32gb (i don’t know how much this is going to cost without the dock, i think i would only need the dock if i was to get rid of my laptop)
Samsung galaxy note 10.1
Ipad 3
Up to now that’s my shortlist, i would be looking at the 32gb versions unless the 64 wasn't a bad price, i am looking to spend about £400 - £500 max, i have seen new ipad 3's 64gb on ebay for £480, not sure how much the others will be, i would need to hold out for the 32gb or 64gb versions of the galaxy note 10.1 if i was to get that, not sure why they have only released a 16gb version and no others.
Thanks for any feedback you give
James
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you prefer the ipad then go for that, it's fine asking what people think but they don't have to live with the tablet you get, you do and it sounds like you've made a choice and are hoping people can change your mind.
Regarding not seeing ipad crash, well no one does because when it does crash it won't actually tell you and on startup of an app it shows a picture not the app itself.
This makes it seem to start quicker as user thinks they are seeing the app starts and if app crashes and restarts the user won't usually realise.
Android didn't lose the right to have flash, adobe chose to pull it....but it is still available for uk android users from play store.
You can stream media from an android tablet to other devices using free apps like mediahouse upnp dlna. You can try some apps on your phone to see if they do what you need.
Android appears more sluggish than ios because ios prioritises user input whereas android multitasks fully and so doesn't single out one aspect for more attention although jellybean does try to improve ui interaction to be much smoother.
The ipad will be easy to use and do what you want, you will lose the customisation and lack of restrictions offered by android so you might get bored a bit but it will do the job just fine.
Apps wise both markets are fine but apples is safer if you're worried about malware, both have a large amount of apps to choose from but a lot of devs do release to ios first because it is easier to code for (ie not hundreds of different spec devices to get an app working on, just a few) and has a high number of users who pay well for apps.
As for apps on android tablets, some do have special tablet only versions but most adapt to your tablets resolution so most should look fine especially as more and more phones are released with higher tablet like resolutions and as these resolutions are becoming much more common developers make their apps display better on them.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Whichever you decide... You have to keep in mind what you are going to use the tablet for to begin with... There are alot of things that tablets cannot do well which in turn we use our personal computers for... These tablets are new technology, and will be growing at an exponential rate... As of now the tablets are performing more and more than once originally released... I myself will not be giving up or replacing my computer for a tablet because I do lots of photo editing, video editing and most importantly my music software... So as for a tablet, I would only be using it to browse the web and social networking alongside the other various basic needs for internet use... As of now I currently own a Galaxy Nexus from Sprint, and it suffices for the daily rounds of networking and web search... But in the future with the new implementation of Microsoft Windows 8 and tablets, it seems that I might be replacing my PC... But in my opinion... Wait for the better tablets... Apple builds it's hardware to do what it does... There is little room to upgrade anything efficiently... Android is working on making their devices more breathable like a personal computer...
And in my opinion, Microsoft is the leading factor here as far as developing the better tablet... I am not a big Microsoft guy as opposed to Linux... But the money, resources, and experience tend to lean at Microsoft... In my opinion... Get the low cost Nexus 7 tablet for now... Keep the laptop... And save up for the swagger that Microsoft might develop here in the near future... or wait for Android to steal the spotlight and WOW us with the new tablet that might one day surpass the PC...
As far as Apple and their products... I am against them simply because of the crybaby courtroom antics... I will probably never buy another Apple product again because of their David Caruso like opportunistic grievances over their patents... They simply lost money because they're not on the ball as quick as Samsung... They lost out on sales due to the minimal changes in the iPhone hardware and design... It was a great run for the awesome product when it FIRST came out on the market... I think that their devices are well put together... but on the same note... the patents are ridiculous... and pretty soon someone will see the lawsuit rulings and get the bright idea of making car companies start having to pay royalties to whomever developed the first vehicle, and we'll all be driving on 3 tires instead of four...
Okay, first off, the myth about ipads never crashing is not true. iOS has a weird way of force closing crashed apps in the background, so you would never know that it happened. The reason why iOS seems very fast is that the OS itself is optimized to run on less resources and iOS has zero fragmentation. The main problem with android is the lack of unity in hardware and software. Apple has full control of iOS and hardware, so it is very efficient in that sense.
Moving on to the issue of replacing a computer with a tablet. My own view is that the easy things that you do on a laptop is a bit harder on a tablet as its OS tends to be much simpler and that means it can include a limited number of features. My suggestion is to wait for the new Microsoft Surface RT and Pro. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2601...s_surface_pro_which_tablet_will_you_want.html
The Pro version has a fully-powered intel ivy bridge cpu with a fully featured windows 8 in a tablet form. If the form factor has you staying away from laptops, then this is the thing for you. Keep in mind that the surface pro is essentially a laptop in tablet form and I think that's pretty cool.
If you really insist on just a android tablet, then it's either the asus transformer infinity or the galaxy note 10.1. I personally have used asus transformer pads and they are AMAZING. They are designed beautifully and definitely high-end. I haven't used the galaxy note 10.1, but the exynos quad does give it a significant boost over the asus tablet.
Reasons for not choosing ipad:
1. The ipad 3 is nothing that new. It still packs the outdated A5 cpu, but the gpu is something noteworthy. Retinal display is alright, b/c to tell you the truth, I can't tell the difference.
2. You cannot customize the ipad to your liking, that means no custom ROMs, kernels or skins, just plain-old iOS
3. The truth is between ipad and android tablets, it comes down to control and whether you like rooting and flashing ROMs. If you're tech-savvy and like to tinker with stuff, then go with android. If not, then it's down to personal preference, ipad or android, choose what you like.
4. Don't support Apple and it's anti-competition ways (more of a joke reason)
Good luck on choosing a tablet
If you want apps go for the iPad simple as. It has a greater catalogue of apps designed for the tablet which is lacking on Android. I've had an android tablet before but now own the new iPad. The apps are far better, and better optimised to make use of the hardware. The OS is smooth and optimised.
I use an android phone and an ipad to give me best of both worlds. I got bored with my Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet as it just felt like a bigger version of of phone.
Also Apple hardware tends to hold value better than most other products. So that's another thing to consider if reselling in the future.
Both are good don't get me wrong but choose one based on what you need and want it to do.
I use my iPad for streaming my music via home sharing, browsing the net, social networking, I watch my tv on it whilst in my bed by streaming off my satellite box, reading books, editing images now and then for quick fixes, and more.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
The people above have already summarized the main points, but allow me to emphasize a few things:
james_lpool said:
Hi, i am currently looking for a tablet, i am hoping in the long run it may replace my laptop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tablets currently out will not replace your laptop. Both android and especially iOS are pretty much toy OS's that, for example, only let you work with one app at a time (though there are some limited efforts on the android side to overcome it). The closest you might come to replacing your laptop is the Surface Pro, coming Jan 2013ish, or the mysterious Ubuntu tablets that haven't materialized so far. Even those probably won't be powerful enough; it'll take a few years for the technology to catch up.
That is why I bought my tablet (the nexus 7) in a completely different niche than my laptop. It's meant to be an easy-to-carry, convenient device for mostly consumption.
Of the ipad alternatives you listed, I reckon that the galaxy note 10.1 is the most interesting. Who knows, maybe the stylus actually would be as useful as they portray in those business commercials.
Personally, i would stick with android. you have so much flexibility with it. and if you do want to get the framework of the ipad on your tablet, you could always flash miui also, you can download apps without using installous. you can view your storage files and folders with the android, but you can't do so so easily with the ipad.
As someone forced by work to use an ipad3 I have to say it is crap.
My sensation browses the web faster, android apps are cheaper or totally free, the iPad is buggy as hell.
Apps crash on it a lot, despite being on the same network as my phone, even with a stronger signal the 3G speed is much slower.
XDA takes longer to load fully, even in chrome on the iPad, and if you try to type a reply before it has fully loaded expect to find yourself unable to type at all do you have to reload the page.
Scrolling any pages with images is laggy as hell, really jerky if you flick the page up or down.
Predictive text is a joke, you type a word and one letter from completion it makes a suggestion, and god help you if you don't want the word it suggests!
I'm fricken fed up having to change keyboard mode for punctuation or numbers too!
Oh nearly forgot, a couple of weekends ago it started needing hard reboots if I wanted to spend more than 10 minutes online with 3G.
My razors all I need I just "dock" it and I've got a working linix computer. But I too am waiting but I want to see the windows 8 also first. I own apple stock but I'd never buy an Apple phone. I have thousands of songs hundreds of cartoons dozens of movies and all for free . and I'm also 99 percent add free
XT912 - .215 radio - SimplexROM 1.2 - AIDE - Tether - Wigdetsoid - Linux Installer w/ Ubuntu 10.10 - Otter Box - Safestrap - Chrome - Tweaked Camera
Android tablets are closer to replacing laptops than Apple tablets. iOS is just too restrictive to be productive on. You can't even download files off the internet on the iPad.
That being said, the Surface Pro will actually be a laptop replacement, as you can run all your favorite laptop software on it, and it runs a full fledged OS.
xaccers said:
As someone forced by work to use an ipad3 I have to say it is crap.
My sensation browses the web faster, android apps are cheaper or totally free, the iPad is buggy as hell.
Apps crash on it a lot, despite being on the same network as my phone, even with a stronger signal the 3G speed is much slower.
XDA takes longer to load fully, even in chrome on the iPad, and if you try to type a reply before it has fully loaded expect to find yourself unable to type at all do you have to reload the page.
Scrolling any pages with images is laggy as hell, really jerky if you flick the page up or down.
Predictive text is a joke, you type a word and one letter from completion it makes a suggestion, and god help you if you don't want the word it suggests!
I'm fricken fed up having to change keyboard mode for punctuation or numbers too!
Oh nearly forgot, a couple of weekends ago it started needing hard reboots if I wanted to spend more than 10 minutes online with 3G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Serius,crash???my gilfriend have the nexus and the galaxy 2,and my ipad 3 is 300% better,than nexus,100% more stable,more beautiful,and responsive etc!!!!ipad =the best ecosystem in the world(in tablet)
Pd:just walk to bestbuy and touch the nexus and touch the ipad the diference is too long!!!