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PC emulation on Android - OS XDA project links.

So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
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Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
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These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
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In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!

Blue6IX said:
So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
----
Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
----
These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
----
In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regardless of what impression you may have, it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to run MSWin on ARM hardware natively. The reason for this is that MSWin is x86 and ARM is... ARM. The approach used in the first link is to use BOCHS (pronounced "Box"), which is a VIRTUAL HARDWARE EMULATOR. It requires a host operating system to be functioning in the background, in this case Linux.
As for Ubuntu... well sure. No problem. Its Linux and the phone runs Linux. Not that big of a stretch to replace the Android parts with GNU.
Note that NONE of this is any kind of "great breakthrough". Bochs has been around for a VERY long time. First OPEN SOURCED in early 2000. Yeah, 12 years ago. As for Ubuntu... well I suppose that the main reason that most people aren't making a native android replacement out of ubuntu, is that not many people are all that interested in it. Cute in theory, but not practical.
What would be a more worthy project would be to upgrade android to GNU libraries and utilities. This would afford us an actually USEFUL balance between the two. Also the ability to run X *through* android without having to do stupid things like VNC. Have the proper interface ***AS AN ANDROID APPLICATION***, leaving Android to work (i.e., phone calls, etc.) while simultaneously offering the standard Linux applications.
My thought though, is that this is becoming less and less important. Firefox is on Android now, the Document foundation has announced LibreOffice for Android -- supposed to be by late 2012 to early 2013... GIMP has no place on Android... That certainly covers the basics.

Appreciate the post. I didn't have time to dig into it too deeply, so took it at face value for the impression I got. Happened to come across it in passing and didn't want to lose track of something vital to the future dev of a project like this on the doubleshot. (but definitely this doesn't belong in the dev section at this time - just clutter there.)
I was hoping people would add to it, especially the way you have, who had more of an understanding of what's going on there - I didn't realize that it was a virtual environment for the windows stuff, but it did seem to good to be true.
Even if no one responded I figured the thread would get pushed down out of the way, but still be here when I got the time to come back to it.
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My reason for running native linux on the device itself is to be able to use the Android SDK and tools without needing a computer to do so. I have 2 of these phones and a Nook Color. The NC has USB host support, so I could plug the doubleshot into it without frying either device. (yes, i'm blending android and linux concepts here - but usb host support in android shows that it's capable of doing it)
Even from one doubleshot to the other I could use wifi adb for a lot of stuff without plugging them into each other through USB and frying the phones. So that would be a victory as well.
The lack of a hardware charging circuit in the doubleshot makes the worry of frying the phones a big deal, power transfer through USB is a big hurdle to jump in management.
Beyond that - the doubleshot is powerful enough on hardware specs to be able to compile a kernel, but that's not gonna happen through a virtual linux install because the overhead is too much. A native install might just be able to do it though. Won't know until I try, but it's worth the work to get to the point of trying, even if it doesn't work out.
The Nook Color probably won't be able to compile a kernel - it's asking too much from a device not really able to handle that.
Getting what I mentioned above to work would mean I could do all my dev work with what fits in my pocket, and let me keep working wherever I am.
I do like the idea of an app to work with this through Android itself - but I don't see how I could use the SDk and variety of user-created tools without a native linux install. Worth pursuing either way though.
If anyone has anything to add, i'd be welcome to hear it. Just understand this is not a project i'm working on or actively pursuing right now - but fully intend to down the line.

Actually blue. There is a thread somewhere that has a step by step on installing ubuntu on gingerbread. I meant to add it when I added the backtrack link. For some reason I didn't, I probably forgot, I actually think the link for it is in the backtrack thread in the sticky.
If I do find it ill let you know.
Sent from my ICS Splashed using Tapatalk

Looking to Develope

Hey Guys (and Gals),
I've been in the tech scene for a while, rooting and unlocking android/softmodding psps and xboxs for fun. However recently I wanted to contribute to the scene, and I'm kind of in a dilemma. I want to make a few apps, nothing crazy ambitious just learn how to. Though I'm not sure what platform to do it on. I am kind of torn about doing it on Android or doing it on the Windows marketplace. I want the simplest setup, (i have 2 windows 7 computers, and a htc rezound and toshiba thrive and tf300). I took a college course on C++ but it didn't even touch on guis or go that far in depth. So basically I am starting from scratch either way.
I like android and have a few pieces from them, but I feel as windows is just getting a start it would be a good chance to start also. Furthermore what language is best for each platform? I have heard java for android, but heard a c type program is overtaking, and html and javascript for windows. Any input is greatly appreciated

adamsaur said:
Hey Guys (and Gals),
I've been in the tech scene for a while, rooting and unlocking android/softmodding psps and xboxs for fun. However recently I wanted to contribute to the scene, and I'm kind of in a dilemma. I want to make a few apps, nothing crazy ambitious just learn how to. Though I'm not sure what platform to do it on. I am kind of torn about doing it on Android or doing it on the Windows marketplace. I want the simplest setup, (i have 2 windows 7 computers, and a htc rezound and toshiba thrive and tf300). I took a college course on C++ but it didn't even touch on guis or go that far in depth. So basically I am starting from scratch either way.
I like android and have a few pieces from them, but I feel as windows is just getting a start it would be a good chance to start also. Furthermore what language is best for each platform? I have heard java for android, but heard a c type program is overtaking, and html and javascript for windows. Any input is greatly appreciated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Woo! Somewhere I can be helpful.
I'd recommend researching a few game engines / frameworks. For example, check out Marmalade SDK (google madewithmarmalade), it's a cross-platform game engine that will abstract your game from the hardware it's running on.
I'd also suggest sticking with c/c++, it's probably the most versatile, and you'll be able to use it with Android, and iOS (and I believe the new Windows 8 mobile platform).
Hope that helps!

Jamie W said:
Woo! Somewhere I can be helpful.
I'd recommend researching a few game engines / frameworks. For example, check out Marmalade SDK (google madewithmarmalade), it's a cross-platform game engine that will abstract your game from the hardware it's running on.
I'd also suggest sticking with c/c++, it's probably the most versatile, and you'll be able to use it with Android, and iOS (and I believe the new Windows 8 mobile platform).
Hope that helps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks, ill definitely look that up, any suggestions for tutorials on using c++ with android/windows?

Hacking possibilities

So after playing with my Surface for 5 days now, it is obvious there is a lot of capability in the back end through the Desktop. II have networked printers, and drives at both home and office going, streaming content etc. It is very capable for what it is, way beyond any other Ipad and Android tablet out there. So it seems to me it is just a matter of time before some XDAer figures out a way to unleash it and possibly load other programs (non-RT) programs some way. We know the official MS word is no, but it seems to me it is a fully capable Win8 machine that just has some goierners on it and limited processing power, just waiting to be cracked.
Am I just dreaming?

I would love to see this happen. The one thing holding me back from purchasing one. I'd love a Windows 8 Pro version tablet at the Surface RT pricing but wouldn't we all...

I dont think rt can run x86 app properly. Because the cpu is not as good as x86 core. I am interested in porting rt to compatiable device such as tergra 2 and 3 pad.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app

liu2002 said:
I dont think rt can run x86 app properly. Because the cpu is not as good as x86 core. I am interested in porting rt to compatiable device such as tergra 2 and 3 pad.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it's necessarily about the Tegra being "as good" as an x86 - the issue is that you'd need an emulator, or the source for the x86 app which you'd then need to re-compile for ARM. I believe MS made a developer toolkit available that allows simpler conversion from x86 to ARM but it's still up to the app vendors to do it.

In theory, the same code could compile for both x86/64 and ARM (RT), but VS2012 will not allow you to compile an ARM desktop app. There is no legit way to write/compile a desktop app on RT. Its an arbitrary BS limitation put in place by MS. You cannot side load apps, everything must come through the MS store, RT enterprise being an exception... which doesn't help us. And the MS store will only offer Metro apps. MS office shows that's desktop apps are fully possible, albeit recoded/recompiled for ARM, but MS will not allow it. In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Skitals said:
In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you say that?

Because its not allowed, only metro style apps published through the app store are allowed. Even if you compile compatible desktop software, the OS won't run it. Its a closed sandbox.
At best we can hope for a "homebrew" community to compile open source software, and find some hacks to get it running.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Hello,
I’m a happy owner of the Surface RT and I just wanted to add my 2c.
I think that Metro UI is great for tablet, but lacks apps !
So I cannot understand why Microsoft didn’t include .Net on this platform ! I think the main goal and the first “Homebrew” must be recompilation of Mono for ARM. As this will allow us develop a lot of programs, quickly and using “good” tools (Visual )
I just started to study WinRT and I’m already hitting a lot of blocks (For instance, I cannot find a way to open Shared Socket ! So if any other app listen on 1900 port, I lose my SSDP discovery... )
But I think recompilation of Mono is definitely a way to go ! I think i’ll try it this week-end, if I have some time, but It’s sure I will not be able install on my surface  As for now it seems to be impossible to enter Testing Mode on it.
Jurion

jurion said:
So I cannot understand why Microsoft didn’t include .Net on this platform !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think people seem to be missing something here (well, not just here, on other threads/forums.blogs too). MS have essentially (it’s really quite impressive) ported over the entire Windows OS to run on ARM – and this includes all of .NET v4 with supporting libraries/DLLs.
You only have to pop to C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319 on your Surface RT to see – all the same libraries for the same version of .NET a x86 desktop seem to be there - including Linq, SQL, reflection etc.
Now, this could be really great news! I’d bet that it would be entirely possible for standard .NET applications (by standard, I mean programs that only use managed code and nothing legacy) to be reasonably easily recompiled to run on ARM - ideally as easyily as changing a drop-down!
Furthermore, this is all supported in Visual Studio, it’s just locked down a bit - I’ve been able to compile, with VS2012 (and a minor tweak to remove the ARM compile block) a simple command line EXE for ARM (using .NET calls – though only in C++ which is a shame). The problem is, as soon I open it on Surface, I get an error saying the ‘digital certificate’ couldn't be validated – a common issue which has a simple fix documented online. The catch... that the instructions to remove this block don’t work with secure boot enabled, and - at present - we can’t disable this on the Surface (on normal PCs this can be turned off in the bios).
So – the key to all this, is for MS to open it up (not impossible, but who knows if or when) or for someone to get round this secure boot/certificate requirement. I’m sure there’s some smart people on here with abilities to work on, and hopefully succeed in doing this. Even if people aren't able to work a way round this block, I'm hopefully that eventually MS may release some firmware update tools that someone can hack to switch off UEFI secure boot. Or perhaps someone at MS or a partner may leak some file/app/boot that unlocks this for dev/enterprise purposes.
I look forward to it happening!
T

Skitals said:
In theory, the same code could compile for both x86/64 and ARM (RT), but VS2012 will not allow you to compile an ARM desktop app. There is no legit way to write/compile a desktop app on RT. Its an arbitrary BS limitation put in place by MS. You cannot side load apps, everything must come through the MS store, RT enterprise being an exception... which doesn't help us. And the MS store will only offer Metro apps. MS office shows that's desktop apps are fully possible, albeit recoded/recompiled for ARM, but MS will not allow it. In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything doesn't have to come through the MS store, you can install applications that you build in Visual Studio 2012 for Windows Store, create an appx package and choose not to publish it in Windows Store. VS2012 then creates an appx package as well as a PowerShell script that you can run on Surface, accept security warning, get the developer's license on the device (it's free) and that's it!

It is fairly obvious why MS does not allow installation of "Desktop" apps on ARM tablets. Otherwise dev's would get lazy and just recompile desktop apps for ARM. The experience on a touch tablet would not be great on (unmodified) Desktop apps, hence Microsoft set this constraint on Windows RT in order to push dev's towards making a proper touch friendly app. The result is of course the lack of apps initially, but in the long run the benefits will be a greater experience as the apps would be optimized for touch.
Sure there are obvious downsides to this strategy, but the decision itself makes a lot of sense from a useability standpoint. You already read the complaints in reviews about "Office" not being Metro-style and unfriendly to touch. However this is naturally a decision due to time constraints, because MS would have also preferred to not include a desktop on RT. Office is the selling point now, to gravitate people towards RT and when there is enough demand, the touch friendly (Metro) apps will flow in eventually

Backflipping said:
I think people seem to be missing something here (well, not just here, on other threads/forums.blogs too). MS have essentially (it’s really quite impressive) ported over the entire Windows OS to run on ARM – and this includes all of .NET v4 with supporting libraries/DLLs.
You only have to pop to C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319 on your Surface RT to see – all the same libraries for the same version of .NET a x86 desktop seem to be there - including Linq, SQL, reflection etc.
Now, this could be really great news! I’d bet that it would be entirely possible for standard .NET applications (by standard, I mean programs that only use managed code and nothing legacy) to be reasonably easily recompiled to run on ARM - ideally as easyily as changing a drop-down!
Furthermore, this is all supported in Visual Studio, it’s just locked down a bit - I’ve been able to compile, with VS2012 (and a minor tweak to remove the ARM compile block) a simple command line EXE for ARM (using .NET calls – though only in C++ which is a shame). The problem is, as soon I open it on Surface, I get an error saying the ‘digital certificate’ couldn't be validated – a common issue which has a simple fix documented online. The catch... that the instructions to remove this block don’t work with secure boot enabled, and - at present - we can’t disable this on the Surface (on normal PCs this can be turned off in the bios).
So – the key to all this, is for MS to open it up (not impossible, but who knows if or when) or for someone to get round this secure boot/certificate requirement. I’m sure there’s some smart people on here with abilities to work on, and hopefully succeed in doing this. Even if people aren't able to work a way round this block, I'm hopefully that eventually MS may release some firmware update tools that someone can hack to switch off UEFI secure boot. Or perhaps someone at MS or a partner may leak some file/app/boot that unlocks this for dev/enterprise purposes.
I look forward to it happening!
T
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, sorry my bad, didn't look enougth to find .Net assemblies.
As for open it for MS, may be, maaaay be it's the same scheme which they followed with Windows Phone 7.
No native developpment for 7.0 -- 7.8
But they open it for 8.0
May be they just want to force people developp Metro app to populate the store first.

So where's the best place to get one?
I'm looking into buying one very very soon, I found some on ebay for $585 with the cover, That sounds like a win to me. I wish QVC had it, That'd be lovely.
I'm praying we get a work around for all this, But still If the device isn't made for it, I can't be mad that it doesn't do it, That's like being angry that my car doesn't fly.
But it's such a tease, it worries me that I'll have an entire desktop, Sitting, Obselete, With nothing but Office, which I wont even use.

Can't_Live_Without_My_Evo said:
I'm looking into buying one very very soon, I found some on ebay for $585 with the cover, That sounds like a win to me. I wish QVC had it, That'd be lovely.
I'm praying we get a work around for all this, But still If the device isn't made for it, I can't be mad that it doesn't do it, That's like being angry that my car doesn't fly.
But it's such a tease, it worries me that I'll have an entire desktop, Sitting, Obselete, With nothing but Office, which I wont even use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is made for it. It has the full desktop, and the full desktop Office suite. Its a big tease. The whole "do more" campaign advertises you can "click in" and have full laptop productivity with touchpad and mouse/keyboard. Except the only software to take advantage of it is desktop IE and Office.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Windows RT - re: Microsoft Leave Us Alone

First off, it is silly that I cannot post a reply straight into the thread, and have to create a new thread in an unrelated area of the forums, as I am a new user (or have less than 10 posts).
Ok, as regards the Windows RT and lock down of the Desktop Applications development, how do the internal programs get past this block? As per many other comments it would appear that Windows RT is a recompilation of Windows 8 and has many like for like .dll's, etc. If the Office 2013 suite can run under the desktop, is it because Microsoft has signed the app with a certificate that is not available to other developers? Does this mean that under the previous EU ruling they are breaching some law in that they are using resources to give themselves an advantage that other developers cannot take advantage of?
I think the only reason they have locked down Windows RT like this is so that this cheap OS does not eat into their regular Windows 8 sales. Certainly I bought a Windows RT device because it is more compatible with my work habits (due to Office 2013) than the Android and iPads I have used in the past. If I could easily use tools like PuTTY, then there would be little reason for me to use a normal laptop or other device.
I doubt Microsoft really watches these discussions in any serious way, but one of the key reasons I chose Windows RT over Android and iPad is because when I need the flexibility of many windows open at the same time and side by side I can do that, but when I want the uncluttered quick environment then New UI does that as well.
Samsung, with Android, is starting to allow a couple apps together, but try to run an Excel Spreadsheet and read your banking web site at the same time to transpose the figures into your budgeting file, and iPad/Android are tedious but Windows RT is a breeze, it is what Windows does best. Microsoft should understand that apart from everything else they do, they provide an OS and should let developers get the most out of that OS, just like Android and iPad developers can push those OS's.

oucarso econcomy
What's more awesome is that new users can't post outside links either. This might be of interest to you www[dot]makeuseof[dot]com/tag/how-to-jailbreak-your-windows-rt-device-and-run-unapproved-desktop-software/

Thanks for the link
My post came as a result of researching the Jail Break idea, I had not seen that page yet. I downloaded the patch and it worked very well. Pity it does not detail why the program goes to the internet the first time it is run, but I assume it is to get the certificate?
Seems like most posters are really happy to have PuTTY working (which is exactly what I wanted). Is it hard to create a New UI App?, maybe someone just needs to compile PuTTY as a New UI app as a terminal emulator should be pretty straight forward.
While I understand that new Intel chips are just around the corner, Surface RT is only $400.00 (64Gb, Touch keyboard) so pretty cheap, so being able to sit on the couch and browse emails, internet and also manage my Linux boxes is really good.
I can do the same thing on my Android TAB, but it is tedious changing screens all the time. New UI has the same problem, always flicking between all the programs. This is what Windows does best, so don't understand why MS would take away from that tried and true model, except they are probably trying to protect their full Windows 8 investment. Instead what they will find is the Windows RT dies a quick death and that is a wasted investment (if that happens they should have just made a New UI only version and got Office to work within that environment if Office is the main reason for the Desktop in Windows RT).

windows 95 running on surface rt

start windows 95 Help on surface rt, really need the program electronic workbench 5.12, via an x 86 emulator, it is not.
I will use bochs, downloaded the BIOS file and VGA in tab CPU put the bad CPU, but still does not work. The configuration file can only be downloaded in the format of the bxrc format, the txt he does not understand. If that happens, put Please setup and working windows 95 image

I kind of doubt anybody else is going to bother with the effort needed to get Win95 running (it would run very slowly, although I suppose it was intended to run on very slow CPUs...) on a first-gen Surface RT, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.
Anybody familiar with Bochs configuration want to weigh in on the configuration issue? I never really did much with it.

GoodDayToDie said:
I kind of doubt anybody else is going to bother with the effort needed to get Win95 running (it would run very slowly, although I suppose it was intended to run on very slow CPUs...) on a first-gen Surface RT, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.
Anybody familiar with Bochs configuration want to weigh in on the configuration issue? I never really did much with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really need the electronic workbench 5.12 "want to run it in any way, it is not a resource, the minimum requirements in the area of pentium 200 MHz

You'll be lucky if you get that equivalent of speed, actually. Typical estimate is order of 10x overhead for emulation, which means each core of the Surface RT is basically like a 130MHz x86 chip. Unless the emulator runs across multiple cores and the program does too (unlikely), you probably won't get much.
Have you considered running it on a real PC and just having the Surface remote desktop into it? Unless you're somewhere without an Internet connection, that's at least a little more likely to work.

Deleted due to forum software screwup

If they can run windows 95 on Android wear, Surface RT is certainly capable. If that's what you want to do, and have the ability to get it done knock yourself out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZx-LJH5J_I

Whether or not it's *possible* to run 95 wasn't really in question - people have, in fact, booted later versions of Windows via emulators - but rather whether it's a practical way to run even a very old program.
If anybody were still maintaining the RT x86 dynamic recompilation layer, I'd say to work on getting it working in that; the performance is a lot better when you don't have to support an entire OS and can execute OS library code in native instructions rather than emulating even the low-level functions. However, I don't think even the source code for that program was ever released. :-/

Weigh in here
Deleted due to forum software screwup
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What happened? HAHA
Also I would like to weigh in here. You (mickel2255) should have done a simple forum search. Gooddaytodie has a list and in it is an x86 emulator that I tested with electronic workbench 5.12 and it works no problem.
List of desktop apps for hacked RT devices http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=36534446
Click to expand...
Click to collapse